A selection of older industrial style electrical switches and a 3 phase rewireable fuseboard. Patreon: / jwflame Contact info, sending stuff in etc.: xo4.uk/?YTT
This really takes me back. I worked as an electrical fitter, in Longannet Power Station, from 1977 up until 2013. This type of switchgear was my bread and butter and much of it was still in use until the station shut in 2016! Fault finding on control circuitry, for switchgear up to 11kv, was interesting if frustrating at times! Contactors, limit switches, reed switches and relays etc. made up the majority of the interlocks and solid state switchgear was the exception rather than the rule although it did start to appear in the 2000's! Built to last as you pointed out. Modern soft start switchgear looks so flimsy in comparison! Thanks for the wee trip down memory lane!
I still have a nostalgic longing for equipment like this, which can be accessed, inspected, repaired and refurbished down to its smallest part, if necessary by cannibalisation. How much good value must have been scrapped in the name of new regs. What a flimsy, transient future awaits.
Thanks JW, brings back nightmares of working on this gear and even older. Largest MEM switchfuse unit I wired was an 800Amp 415V onto a MEM 800Amp busbar chamber 4 metres long and then a whole arrangement of the MEM switchfuses and dist boards. Often used to work on these types of switches and fuse boxes Live!!! with the covers off .......... would not even dream of doing such a thing now but 30 years ago it was common practice
Great to see that solid old gear. Re starting inrush: only small motors are direct-on-line, with a very high inrush current. Larger motors are star-delta; startup is in star, which gives a lower inrush. The starter has three positions: off, start, and run.
Well, JW, you have just blown my mind.... I was always taught that these style of isolators were just that. - Isolators, and never to be switched on-load. That first MEM that you showed had a fairly high breaking capacity! You live and you learn!
I have noticed on some installations that during periodic electrical testing that asbestos warning labels are put on the old gear containing the old asbestos ark pads.
I've just bought an enormous Simplex hazardous area 3 phase fuse box as I want an enclosure to contain the electronics for a phase converter I'm building. The connections, switchgear and fuses all have their own separate enclosures variously held closed by between 6 and 12 UNC bolts. The enclosure containing the fuses is interlocked with the switchgear so it cannot be opened without the power isolated. The whole thing is an engineering thing of beauty and I actually felt guilty while carefully unscrewing the 30amp per phase porcelain fuses to remove them. The unit was recently removed from service in a factory that belonged to the MEB (Midlands Electricity Board) which I think may have been where they built switchgear and transformers. I'm having it vapour blasted and will repaint it befor I install the new internals but I'm planning to use the enormous and pretty indestructible switchgear which provides 4 separate poles. As you can tell I love these pieces of equipment and am still looking for an old 15hp British standard ventilated round case motor for the project. The search goes on...
much better than a Klockner Crapola plastic euro jobby. Sparky fitted one of those in my fathers factory, it disintegrated when an employee let a pickaxe handle drop on it. MEM/Bill switchfuses will still be around after the bomb's dropped.
Good video John...I was supprised you can still get Bs88 fuse holders to fit the mem re wire able they slot straight in.. I got some 20 Amp from Newey&Air electrical wholesaler last year... they still use them in there isolators they are made in India now....think they do different sizes still...
In the USA it is line in the top and load out the bottom which I think is easier to work with. maybe that's just what i am use to. are your standard lights switches line in the bottom as well ?
Its in the bottom most of the time.One of the ideas is gravity, if some thing was to fall and landed on the top it would take out the main in-coming source and not the local fuses. Light switches can vary depending on manufacturers but work the opposite to the USA up is OFF down is ON. Its the little things that make the world nutz.
10 Ampere from ac or dc at 115 or 230 is Pretty lethal. Just as well we have fuses. Mind by the time ye' old fuse went O/C your goose would be cooked...
There are inducting cooking plates,who have the same watts!!Al though only 230 volts.And all connected with the same Perilex plug,what i find to small for such things..
Perilex is a connection for three-phase current 3x230/400 V, there are two variants of this socket: 16 A or 25 A. 16 A version the earth-pin is horizontal on the 25 A version the earth pin is vertical. I've only seen this sockets in old installations here in Germany, and most of them were the 16 A versions. Not a bad idea to use them to connect the cooking plate with it. Here they are no longer permitted for industrial usage, but for domestic purposes you could use them. The cooking plates are divided on two phases: Always one large and one small heating plate are powered by one phase. And if you've got an baking oven: It's supplied by phase 3. And in this case: 16 A * 400 V * 1,73 = 11072 W Enough for the most cooking plates and ovens. And that they're 230 V is in this case not relevant because they're supplied from three phases and the power is shared on them. In Germany, according to regulation DIN 18015-2, the cables for the cooking plate/stove must be dimensioned for 3*20 A, even if you only fuse them with 3*16 A MCB. This is if you want to use a heating plate/oven with more power in the future, then you only have to replace the MCBs and not the cables inside the wall.
We could not use them,we use them!And of course it is also usable in only one phase situation,then the 4 wires divide the current among them.3 phase connection is for heavy users,but i think that for that use the plug is to small.The pins are only a couple of millimeters apart,and if someone dont screw the lid on it tightly there can be a discharge between the pins if connected to 3 phase.. Really,i dont like it.The plug has to be bigger,but it is common in the Netherlands. And the cable on those Induction plates are always too short.
I noticed on the 60A switch that the wiring appears to be double insulated, is that just due to the manufacturing method of the cable, or would there be some requirement for it?
someone correct me if I'm wrong but to me it looks like a PVC/PVC cable so the colored part is serving as your insulation the grey part is your 'mechanical protection'. This type of cable you can clip directly to wood etc then bury in a wall. If you have a cable that has no second outer covering (singles) you need a containment system (trunking or conduit etc).
Company I work for many years ago had lots of machinery that had large electric motors. I was one of the mechanics there. I would trouble shoot most of electrical failures that would happen. One day as I was testing a motor even though the main power switch on the machine was in the off position that motor was buzzing and it was shorted but there was no power going to anything on the machine because the power switch was turned off. I never did find out how that could have possibly happen when there was no voltage getting to the motor. Very odd situation.
Asbestos is dangerous but not THAT dangerous. The people who are having serious health problems are the ones who worked or lived around massive quantities for decades, a single exposure doesn’t do much. Also, the thing only becomes dangerous if you mess with it, then it releases small particles in the air which get into your nose, mouth and eyes, if you leave it alone it’s harmless.
Наука
This really takes me back. I worked as an electrical fitter, in Longannet Power Station, from 1977 up until 2013. This type of switchgear was my bread and butter and much of it was still in use until the station shut in 2016! Fault finding on control circuitry, for switchgear up to 11kv, was interesting if frustrating at times! Contactors, limit switches, reed switches and relays etc. made up the majority of the interlocks and solid state switchgear was the exception rather than the rule although it did start to appear in the 2000's! Built to last as you pointed out. Modern soft start switchgear looks so flimsy in comparison! Thanks for the wee trip down memory lane!
I still have a nostalgic longing for equipment like this, which can be accessed, inspected, repaired and refurbished down to its smallest part, if necessary by cannibalisation. How much good value must have been scrapped in the name of new regs. What a flimsy, transient future awaits.
Love the older equipment... Robust as anything and built to last, quite unlike the junk now...
Totally agree, kills me ripping out some of the old stuff from the 60's to be replaced with todays crap
Thanks JW, brings back nightmares of working on this gear and even older. Largest MEM switchfuse unit I wired was an 800Amp 415V onto a MEM 800Amp busbar chamber 4 metres long and then a whole arrangement of the MEM switchfuses and dist boards. Often used to work on these types of switches and fuse boxes Live!!! with the covers off .......... would not even dream of doing such a thing now but 30 years ago it was common practice
I love old switching and power gear. How far we have come.
I just wanted to take a second to thankyou for sharing this knowledge with us! I'm doing my qualifications now and your videos have been amazing!
Great to see that solid old gear. Re starting inrush: only small motors are direct-on-line, with a very high inrush current. Larger motors are star-delta; startup is in star, which gives a lower inrush. The starter has three positions: off, start, and run.
Love the old Frankenstein electronics - more power Igor
Well, JW, you have just blown my mind.... I was always taught that these style of isolators were just that. - Isolators, and never to be switched on-load. That first MEM that you showed had a fairly high breaking capacity! You live and you learn!
Better than the plastic crap you get nowadays
I have noticed on some installations that during periodic electrical testing that asbestos warning labels are put on the old gear containing the old asbestos ark pads.
That spider action John, On Point! Always love your uploads. Keep it up my friend.
Thought I was the only one that noticed that...
I remember the memrex switches, we had them to turn on the old choke welders.
Thanks for the vid.
Happy holidays!
Cheers
I've just bought an enormous Simplex hazardous area 3 phase fuse box as I want an enclosure to contain the electronics for a phase converter I'm building. The connections, switchgear and fuses all have their own separate enclosures variously held closed by between 6 and 12 UNC bolts. The enclosure containing the fuses is interlocked with the switchgear so it cannot be opened without the power isolated.
The whole thing is an engineering thing of beauty and I actually felt guilty while carefully unscrewing the 30amp per phase porcelain fuses to remove them. The unit was recently removed from service in a factory that belonged to the MEB (Midlands Electricity Board) which I think may have been where they built switchgear and transformers.
I'm having it vapour blasted and will repaint it befor I install the new internals but I'm planning to use the enormous and pretty indestructible switchgear which provides 4 separate poles.
As you can tell I love these pieces of equipment and am still looking for an old 15hp British standard ventilated round case motor for the project. The search goes on...
much better than a Klockner Crapola plastic euro jobby. Sparky fitted one of those in my fathers factory, it disintegrated when an employee let a pickaxe handle drop on it. MEM/Bill switchfuses will still be around after the bomb's dropped.
Excellent narration as always.
This is fast becoming my favorite ASMR channel.
Good video John...I was supprised you can still get Bs88 fuse holders to fit the mem re wire able they slot straight in.. I got some 20 Amp from Newey&Air electrical wholesaler last year... they still use them in there isolators they are made in India now....think they do different sizes still...
The door interlock is a nice safety feature, but there are some companies that just can't build them right.
Thanks John! Interesting to see some of the older equipment! Also, did you get that lava/glitterlamp for Christmas? ;)
Just wondering did you ever done changeover switch love to see how you do it
did the bug survive?
In the USA it is line in the top and load out the bottom which I think is easier to work with. maybe that's just what i am use to.
are your standard lights switches line in the bottom as well ?
Its in the bottom most of the time.One of the ideas is gravity, if some thing was to fall and landed on the top it would take out the main in-coming source and not the local fuses. Light switches can vary depending on manufacturers but work the opposite to the USA up is OFF down is ON. Its the little things that make the world nutz.
great vid
Thank you for the video!
10 A should not be underestimated if it's three-phase current:
10 A * 415 V * root of 3 = 7188 W
10 Ampere from ac or dc at 115 or 230 is Pretty lethal. Just as well we have fuses. Mind by the time ye' old fuse went O/C your goose would be cooked...
There are inducting cooking plates,who have the same watts!!Al though only 230 volts.And all connected with the same Perilex plug,what i find to small for such things..
Perilex is a connection for three-phase current 3x230/400 V, there are two variants of this socket: 16 A or 25 A. 16 A version the earth-pin is horizontal on the 25 A version the earth pin is vertical. I've only seen this sockets in old installations here in Germany, and most of them were the 16 A versions. Not a bad idea to use them to connect the cooking plate with it. Here they are no longer permitted for industrial usage, but for domestic purposes you could use them.
The cooking plates are divided on two phases: Always one large and one small heating plate are powered by one phase. And if you've got an baking oven: It's supplied by phase 3.
And in this case:
16 A * 400 V * 1,73 = 11072 W
Enough for the most cooking plates and ovens. And that they're 230 V is in this case not relevant because they're supplied from three phases and the power is shared on them. In Germany, according to regulation DIN 18015-2, the cables for the cooking plate/stove must be dimensioned for 3*20 A, even if you only fuse them with 3*16 A MCB. This is if you want to use a heating plate/oven with more power in the future, then you only have to replace the MCBs and not the cables inside the wall.
We could not use them,we use them!And of course it is also usable in only one phase situation,then the 4 wires divide the current among them.3 phase connection is for heavy users,but i think that for that use the plug is to small.The pins are only a couple of millimeters apart,and if someone dont screw the lid on it tightly there can be a discharge between the pins if connected to 3 phase..
Really,i dont like it.The plug has to be bigger,but it is common in the Netherlands.
And the cable on those Induction plates are always too short.
That's about as much as a North American dryer circuit.
I noticed on the 60A switch that the wiring appears to be double insulated, is that just due to the manufacturing method of the cable, or would there be some requirement for it?
someone correct me if I'm wrong but to me it looks like a PVC/PVC cable so the colored part is serving as your insulation the grey part is your 'mechanical protection'. This type of cable you can clip directly to wood etc then bury in a wall. If you have a cable that has no second outer covering (singles) you need a containment system (trunking or conduit etc).
That's a nice collection, were they donated to you or have you removed them during your work?
Most of those were removed from a building that was being refurbished.
Nice one, it's nice to see someone preserving these bits.
Is it a dependent manual operation?
Better to change the phase rotation/ motor direction, at the machine leaving the switchgear RYB in and out.
Company I work for many years ago had lots of machinery that had large electric motors. I was one of the mechanics there. I would trouble shoot most of electrical failures that would happen. One day as I was testing a motor even though the main power switch on the machine was in the off position that motor was buzzing and it was shorted but there was no power going to anything on the machine because the power switch was turned off. I never did find out how that could have possibly happen when there was no voltage getting to the motor. Very odd situation.
hi john ward can u do a video about contactors and push button please
Already done, ruclips.net/video/5Iujs94re_U/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/6dKwOsrnkb4/видео.html
The wires inside are thin.
When will you play us a song on your organ JW?
You didn't make much fuss about the asbestos, people should be warned to take care when working on these
Isolators
Asbestos isn't inherently deadly. Just don't disturb it, or spray water on it to keep the dust down if you absolutely need to mess with it.
Asbestos is dangerous but not THAT dangerous. The people who are having serious health problems are the ones who worked or lived around massive quantities for decades, a single exposure doesn’t do much. Also, the thing only becomes dangerous if you mess with it, then it releases small particles in the air which get into your nose, mouth and eyes, if you leave it alone it’s harmless.
I love the smell of asbestos in the morning.
second ha ha!
first