Tier 11 and Firelands progression were always great. Once everyone is 6/7 Heroic Firelands and all you have to do are those annoying dailies, server populations will crash.
Cata classic is WAY better than I thought. Honestly I trash talked it for the last 10 years... but for some reason, I gave it another chance and it's SO MUCH BETTER than I thought! I know... I know... you're thinking "Just a classic Andy. Just a retail cope." Just give it a try before you judge it. Can you do that? Can you actually judge something fairly after trying it with an honest attempt?
its okey, it definitely is downfall of wow , but still better feeling when playing than in retail ...but at least in retail you have a lot more to do ...i feel like i had nothing to do sooner than even in wotlk ...probably bcs leveling and progression was way slower
I've been telling people this for like 4+ years. IN the age of the internet ppl do not formulate their own opinions. We watch reviews on movies and decide its not going to be good because some critic gave it a 70 score. I tried cataclysm on an Private Server a few years ago, and it was my first real attempt into the expac, and it really impressed me personally. Lately in life i've chosen to do this with a lot of things, wether its a restturant, a movie etc. Often I find what I enjoy or like isnt always what others may like. Try stuff out, dont be afraid for things not to meet your expectations, at least you wont rob yourself of something you enjoy just because a random stranger has their own opinion.
There were 2 big dropoffs in vanilla Cata, in the first phase because the content was too difficult (we got the nerfed version of content right away thankfully). The second big dropoff was during the last phase, because Dragon Soul was a bad raid IMO and it lasted way too long. This time around we'll probably only see a 4-6 month Dragon Soul phase before MoP classic which should help keep players somewhat.
I'm having a fucking blast. Progressing 10man heroic with my guild has been some of the most fun i've had. I don't think any previous raid tier in classic have been this fun so far.
Have this very vague memory of a druid friend convicing me to try arena for the first time ever in cata. Was amazing and kept up casual arena until end of legion lol
@@Caperfin Maining rogue, but honestly I have the most fun on my mage alt. The class design for mage in pvp is really fun in cata, both frost and fire.
@@joelswatten9611still took 12 year old me who was raiding week 1 of ds to clear heroic after the nerfs started rolling in. Vaguely remember moving raiding on a dongle for ages and still only killed gunship first night after first 5% nerf lol. I kept busy I cleared heroic by the end on all roles but tank who managed 6H
@@joelswatten9611 LFR and Dragon soul and obviously they can just not do lfr and Dragon soul wasn't even that bad an can be adjusted it and it's catch up dungeons are amazing
I hate when people talk about heirlooms "ruin" lvling and then pretend like you can't do the same thing in vanilla. Like surprise surprise if you send your alt boe/boa items that are enchanted heirlooms or not your going to have a easy af time lvling. Like obviously if you give your character gear with good stats its going to preform well above what the game was designed for making it even bigger of a joke.
I think that is only one aspect. The other aspect is it ruins a lot of the fun of getting new gear, because who cares when your weapon and a bunch of other slots auto upgrade. You can wear subpar gear in the other slots and still clean up. You can twink an alt with better gear but heirlooms makes it much easier to do. Trying to twink a guy at every stage is time and gold intensive. It's not something most people would normally do.
@@zaatas sure but my point Is heirlooms don't ruin lvling, min max mentality does. If you want gear to matter just don't use them.... But people won't do that instead they will just complain.
@@Zemilia22 I mean, sure, most people want a challenge, but most people don't want it to be self-imposed. Also, I don't accept that personally, you shouldn't have to game a game to make it good. Also also, this is an an mmo, and people are competitive, if everyone putting up the good numbers is wearing heirloom gear, they will also want that gear to not be left behind. Your argument is basically, we shouldn't need laws because people should just be good, while I agree with that sentiment in spirit, I whole heartedly disagree with it when we try to actually apply it in the real world.
@@zaatas your argument is null when you say people want a challenge, lvling has never been a challenge in wow. Hell even hardcore wasn't hard people died because they made stupid choices and had to make it hard on themselves. Wow blew up because of how easy it was to play compared to other mmos so this idea that it was hard is just not true. I'm sorry but if your worried about parsing in lvling dungeons your a part of the min max culture thats slowly killing off games lol. Also your analogy is awful, you are not required to use heirlooms to lvl up stop coping lol. My argument is that you must be the type of person to use summons in elden ring and use broken builds and complain the game is to easy.
@@Zemilia22 Being challenged can mean a lot of different things. At one point you did have to pay attention to pulls, or rest more between pulls. Quests were more spread out, and add-ons were more primitive. There was a more tactical aspect to the game that didn't involve face rolling the mobs. This happened in wrath really. And I've played older mmos on launch, they weren't that hard either, they just punished you for failure much more harshly, most of the gameplay was very basic even compared to vanilla rotations. There is no cope, just that human nature is complicated, and the solution is more complicated than just don't use them, because it's a MMO and it changes the dynamic of the game. Heirlooms were just a part of the overall change in game design that made it too face rolly. If you like that fine, I don't mind it, but some people didn't enjoy the change.
I understand leveling is part of the mmorpg exp how ever for a game that can be played in many different ways i feel leveling is the least good part of it and its down to end game cata was a good mid ground of both for leveling i believe
The problem with Cata was it was basically the story after the story. Leading up to Wow, Warcraft 3 set up the big bad as the Lich King, which we killed in Wolk. So you have this whole vacuum of lore following that expansion. Combine that with them redesigning the world so it isnt Vanilla anymore, harder dungeons, and an abysmal final tier and you pretty much sum up the failure that was Cata.
change of world isnt definitely a reason, why it wasnt vanilla anymore ...i like that change, so it isnt the same and atleast, we had a reason to lvl up ,be and spend time in old zones unlike retail where u dont even know what is kalimdor :D harder dungeons are just plus ,also raids ...for me its luck of content and huge changes of classes and combat system and combat animations of most of the spells
@@Syleion You may like it, but did you play it back in the day? It was jarring for alot of players. It was essentially changing the game from original WoW to retail WoW.
sounds like everyone is blinded by warcraft III's content then. I hate Deathwing, this motherfucking dragon keeps ruining my in game experience. I won't tryhard 4.3 because of him. Throughout the years I grew more attached to the lich king, so I can undertand the wow's playerbase. But. If you read the books, he is no random dragon, as much as I hate him currently, as far as i'm concerned, and because I remember how everyone reacted in 2010 and 2012, people are just blinded for no particular reason. They thought MoP was a joke, well too bad, while Deathwing was sleeping during WIII, the pandas were there, already there. I mean it's fine, people can believe what they want, and I also believe cata isn't classic, but the same biased opinion over and over again... (as far how we discover Pandaria, don't ask me, they have a point)
Dungeons of Warcraft instead of World of Warcraft. You teleport yourself to highlevels from dungeon to dungeon instead of playing in the now empty but better looking world....which makes the redesign somewhat obsolete already again. If people dont like it to play and level in a world of warcraft - why even bother to create it, why does it even exist? Strange decissions of the developers.
@@gaetanguillot9305 Pandas were definitely a side quest. And like I said before, you can like it all you want, but the lore following WolK was definitely changed. Many players didnt like this.
3:00 youre right. i stopped running random heroics because the people i got matched with were absolute dog shit. even worse is that you have a dungeon guide that details what bosses can and will do. it's incredibly annoying how so many players just wipe, even much worse with this soft ass generation because if you complain they take it personal since they cant handle criticism. i got suspended and chat restricted because a tank kept wiping in black rock heroic. all i simply did was offer to help with boss mechanics but the tank would ignore me and so did the other party members. after not wanting to wipe for the 4th time i told him that it's okay to ask for help if you dont know boss mechanics. they voted to kick me, it passed, i then went on to message the rest of the party members asking why they would kick me when all i did was try offering to help so we dont keep wiping. then they reported me for harassment and i was suspended. i loved how when i offered to help, not a single person responded to me, but when i was mad about the kick, they all responded. i tried appealing the suspension and that failed.. havent been back to random heroics since because it's not the first time something like that has happened to me and ill be damned if i get suspended again. gaming changed so much.. i cant stand this new generation of sensitive babies. you used to be able to tell somebody to go practice and that's it. end of discussion. you tell people to go practice today and all hell breaks loose smfh.
I know he's reacting but huh who thinks cata is the worst expansion every. I mean Mabey players who quit leading up to or during cata and never came back. Outside of that pretty sure 99.9% of players would agree WoD or Shadowlands is the worst expansion ever.
SL was by far the worst to the point where some of it has already been retconned. Doubt we ever deal with anything SL related until they surely bring back the Banshee Queen to fight the void.
Wod had the same issue as cata in a way. Lack of content that made it past development causing long tiers. I really enjoyed hm and brf and coming back end of wod was funeven tho everyone was crying they were bored but still playing
i'm having fun on cata just doing bgs and arena only personnaly, the lvling was alright too, with 0 heirlooms i got to 85 in a week i think just spamming rdf, i gotta say tho its starting to feel like a solo game again like retail wow, you don't need anyone to do anything, i don't have this feeling of community like on vanilla/tbc/wotlk, in cata i just queue for pvp and that's it i rarely talk to anyone because i don't have to ?, makes me miss vanilla wow sometimes
And in terms of Vanilla. For me Vanilla is a levelling game not end content game. Because after playing A LOT of Vanilla I came to realization that if you are not playing warrior, rogue, mage or priest (maybe shaman) - you are fooling yourself. I’m writing it as a person who mained hunter and resto druid
I think your take on this, is spot on for most of the ppl that play cata guzu, and u are able to see pros and cons for different categories of the playerbase! U should be the one making videos like this haha
So I never played Wow until maybe WOD - I only briefly popped on - come 2019 I played classic then TBC wrath and as of recent Cata - I can say without bias that TBC is the best exp Wow has done. With Classic as my second choice with Wrath 3rd. Cata is ok but overall doesn't offer anything compared to the other expansions. With Wrath, they added extra loot to grind in dungeons - TBC dungeons were much more fun to play ( talking as someone who never played from the start so all pretty new to me). Cata feels as if to just hit 85 and then spam raids - nothing else. Very hollow. to me it offers so much less than wrath from storytelling or questing and 100% dungeon play doesn't even come close to TBC, Vashj'ir was my favorite area to play in cata with a decent storyline and being different aesthetically, but that's it! I have a feeling Blizzard is trying to move us through each Exp to retail to increase average spending via the store. Lotro did the same thing with legendary servers - as they don't just want the sub they want you to be buying gold and mounts and all the extra crap we never really need from the store. They are already doing it now, testing the water. Cata is ok but I only play to potter about and I think some people want to live in the old glory days again and be a try hard, I feel the customer base is much older now and just wants easy fun interactive groups rather than queue spam dungeon/raid and leave without saying a word to each other. Talking as someone who shares the same views of a lot of like-minded players. My order: 1. TBC 2. Classic 3. Wrath 4. Cata I hope one day they will release a fresh server to move into TBC from classic or allow a former classic server to move back into TBC and maybe others to move into Wrath so we all get an option to play want we want. I know they compared sub numbers saying nobody played TBC but this was launched right at the end of lockdown in most countries - the UK ended all lockdown in Sept 2021 and began removal of restrictions around the end of June 2021 time, with TBC launching around the start of June 2021. America wasn't far behind and neither was Europe - during COVID we were all at our computers playing, you could just hang outside in the sun all day tossin' a ball around, or you could sit at your computer and do something that matters! - most of us went outside :) I hope we get the best of everthing in the end.
i disagree. cata removed a huge chunk of the grind that made the game unbearable at times imo. people have lives, and we dont have as much time anymore as we used to.
Problem with cata was the unfinished middle part no abyssal maw raid and the ending dragon soul a very bad raid compared to others and lfr starting. It was ending so enjoy it now it goes down hill after this
As long as cataclysm is a endgame game it lost soul of vanilla. It's so dumb that devellopers creates a huge world and remastered zones but don't invite players to go in. Devellopers themselves didn't understand their own game
The best part about Raiding is when you are finished and don't have to do it anymore. Then you get to play the game. The purpose of having different lock outs is to be able to "attain" the gear you need to finish a build then the joy you get to experience when you are finished Raiding. MMO's are about completion and having different lockout give you more options to getting there. This is one of the main things I hate about Retail is you are never done doing Dungeons or Raids. It's every week forever and that isn't an MMO.
I don't really understand what you mean, the only way you need to continue playing retail for ever is if you can't clear the content, or if you want to be an ultra tryhard in M+ for score. Either way you can be long bis geared way before that point.
@@krunky3696 M+ is part of the problem with Retail. It was a mistake. Mythic Raids are also a mistake. There is no need for that many difficulties. What I mean is I want to do dungeons or Raids to see them then...THEN be finished with them. The goal is to complete them so you can move onto the rest of the game. There really is so much more to MMO's than Dungeons or Raiding. Which is why players have stopped playing Retail.
@@WhatIfTheories then you shouldn't play wow at all, it has and always will be a poor choice for more than dungeons and raiding. Sounds like FF14 would be a better choice for you tbh.
The addon isnt bad, but it was the first step to gate keep "casuals"/not so good players. Raids were always another thing, especially since Sunwell, but you can still push bad players through it. I guess Lich King normal mode was the first one where you could oneshot the whole raid and the raid cant compensate it in any way. But Cata also pushed gate keeping to 5 men dungeons. I acted as a "Wow" teacher for some players of my guild, but it already was too complex at this point and it just wasnt fun anymore for them. Also many were done with their college education during this addon, so it broke apart with Dragon Soul. Its one thing to have difficult raids with hard modes etc, which is ok, but they overtuned it in normal mode. Flex mode during Pandaria had a good starting difficulty, but it was useless because the items were garbage. Could go on, but I doubt anyone will read it. ^^
Maybe it was me being 11/12 or a full casual guild but that difficulty was something I still remember so dam clearly. Barely remember clearing heroic mop, wod and mythic legion
Always thought cata was the reason I quit. Playing it again I realize it was just burn out on the game in general. It's no where near as bad as I remember. It's fine.
I still don't understand why the heck Classic is not on patch-by-patch basis? Who would want to play whole expansion on the same patch? With unchanging class balance? With nerfed raids and whatnot? I never understood why this question is never brought up - most people played the game NOT on 1.12 and not on 2.4 and not on 3.5. They played evolving game, the one where you are excited for next Wednesday because new patch is dropping, and you wanna see what it changes for you and for others. Who in the sane mind was excited for "Phase 2" - where the only goddamn change is that PvP servers become an infinite fortnite match? I would be much more excited to play Vanilla - if it was done "the same way it was in 2004-2006" (c). Hashtagnochanges, thankyouverymuch. Which means we start at 1.0 and we have each consecutive patch applied one after other, on relatively same timeline. I want to see why Arcanite Reaper was so legendary. I want to see why the "Big Blue Dress" video was created. I want to see unnerfed raids (BC, WotLK) and dungeons (BC, Cata heroics). You don't need to have this stupid SoD - where you just have abilities from later expansions added onto Classic, but without other balance changes, making it simply a ridiculous sight (see Captain Grim's video about SoD). You want to have freshness on old vanilla rails? Then repeat every goddamn patch from Classic. Literally dig up all the changelogs, and do exactly what is written in them, however broken or unbalanced it may be. That will bring back "old school wow", and will also feel like entirely new way of playing Vanilla.
Because they can barely get final patch balancing functional, they're not committing dev time to rebuild the game from scratch and progress it patch by patch to a sidepiece that has 2 devs assigned to it. That's also assuming they even have backup of anything more than the final patch. MOP Classic is going to answer this question, because for the first time in Classic there's actually content that needs rebuilding from a state other than its final patch version (Vale of Eternal Blossom) for the game to be functional.
where is Firemaw ?? at 10.36 Last time i checked both Firemaw and the RPPVP had players , must be old footage siince i reacall not all of those servers are actually in the game anymore -like patchwerk
Metagoblin really doesn't know what he is talking about, seems like he doesn't even really play the game. The raid lockout idea was a huge BAD take. If you wanna do more raiding. Have an alt. That's what most of us do and it's way more fun. I raid 25 man heroics 2 days a week on one character and 10 man another 2 days on a different character in a different guild. If I had to do double lockouts on both characters I wouldn't have time to progress 2 characters.
I disagree, and would much rather have had just 1 character that i could do 10 and 25 on. Problem is, this decision is a personal preference based on the perspective of that individual player, and that doesn't really leave room for a 1 size fits all answer.
The levelling and raids are okay but I hate the Hunter overhaul. Focus + removing volley makes it so you pretty much a single target rotation and if you try to deviate from that you have focus issues. Mana management was a little more interesting and you could really just open up hardcore on someone in pvp and then viper when not in combat. Not sure if it gets better in later expansions or if its a "get used to it" situation and I may have to change classes.
As someone who never touched hunter before cata and ended cata as a hunter main this makes me laugh Playing mana hunter in classic/tbc few years back just felt so shit to me
Guzu says "next" phase will have firelands, that is incorrect. Next phase will have ZA only, Firelands is the third phase and the last phase is dragonsoul. Cata raiding is just the raids they have now until phase 3
@@stianbotten836 My mistake its ZG and ZA. But you saying it's 1.5 and not 2 is funny considering its what October for Firelands? July/Augest/Sept/Oct. While ZA and ZG should be sometime this month. 1.5 is silly. So their phases are 1 1.5 2 3? Wut, why have a 1.5? 1/2/3/4 Makes more sense from a business standpoint. (And quarterly report.) phase 1 was Cata launch and first raid. Phase 2 is ZA/ZG phase 3 is Firelands and phase 4 is Dragonsoul. Don't get upset just because the only thing Cata has to look forward to for 4 months is ZA/ZG. Rofl, Lmao even.
Reason its 1.5 is because There is no raid, but you don’t know when firelands will be out, There has been no confirmation, but a few more months with bwd and bot wouldn’t hurt, its such a good phase, best so far in Classic, so i am having a blast, loving every moment of it :)
Been logging in on sod more atm my dailies in catta were just log in get 10 or 20 air water fire for my alky transmute. But also feel i need to donsome more mop before it ends but will see.
I enjoy Cata so far The main concern for me was levelling. Super rushed, no challenge, no need to collaborate, loot changes every half hour. If you should not feel invested in levelling - why have it in the first place? Just for a reference I got to 60 on hardcore (so no speed minmaxing) in 8 days of gameplay. I got to level 80 on a fresh char with 0 heirlooms in 2 days. X4 faster for the content of three xpacks instead of one. I was hyped to run through TBC once again and ended up finishing it in 1 evening. 58-68 in one evening
Because the playerbase, even back in the day detested leveling and (rightfully) see it as a way for Blizzard to milk a month of subs out of you, as well as $$$ in out of date expac to be able to play current content. Recruit a Friend came about during Wrath and everyone abused the fuck out of it. Leveling was only relevant content during Vanilla (and due to the endgame being non-existent and was really only added in as an afterthought in later content patches by Blizz).
@sidyaking hc is an extremely small subset of the player base, splintered off an already small niche (vanilla only players). SoD release also decimated the HC population, which points out that a lot of the HC players are just following whatever the latest Vanilla F R E S H trend is, leaving only the dedicated HC player behind. Ultimately you can even see this mentality shift occur in real time in the history of classic with how soon mage boosting and dungeoncleave levelling popped up and how rampant they become. Past the first character experience, most people just see levelling as a chore, and this trend back in the day was why Cata set out to completely overhaul the old world
i tried out cata it was fun gameplay wise for a bit but its just not the same I couldnt get into it. Everyone just sits in capital cities queuing up for dungeons. progging raids for weeks is not fun and the p2w environment is pretty lame. In the first couple weeks in terms of wow tokens it would have taken 700$+ canadian to get pre bis thats just stupid, that darkmoon trinket alone was 50k gold so almost 300$ just for that one item. I know the p2w and gdkp has become the norm in classic and players are okay with spending hundreds of irl dollars on gear but after sod and deviate delight era i cant go back to that garbage.
That's around what it costed back in the days as well, Classic inflation is significantly faster than the OG game in pacing due to bots but for the most part price on craftable goods are balanced out by mats being dirt cheap also due to bots, its only world BoE that are significantly more expensive. Even on fresh Cata private servers with no previous economy you'd have Volcano going for 50k+ first week, its a multiphase BIS trinket that requires a large amount of mats to craft due to its semi-RNG nature. Go back and look at some old MMO Champion post about it, you're going to see it in the 20k+ range even in posts made into Fireland (mid 2011). And due to bots flooding the market with cheap mats and DMF coming twice a month, its now 10k on big servers in Classic. But sure, lets blame the GDKP boogieman
@@dumpsterplayer5133 lol boogeyman, saying that gdkp isnt the main driving force for gold buying is just putting your head in the sand to the blatantly obvious. to each their own, If people wanna swipe thats fine. pretty much everyone does it on these servers, if ppl like the p2w system thats their choice but i just cant go back to a server like that after going back and playing sod. Spending hundreds of dollars on gear that only lasts a couple months is too rich for me. i know a guy who spent 40,000$ canadian throughout 2019-2023 on gdkp alone he was literally spending 1000$ a month lol
@@Yams42279 Its a boogieman because it literally has nothing to do with why Volcano is expensive, and I literally told you why, but that's what you immediately go for anyway because clearly everything you can't afford on a boomerdad dalies route income must be """"P2W""". Its a multiphase BIS trinket that cost an absurd amount of mats to make due to its lottery nature, you have to assemble a full deck where half of the card pool is vendor trash (Earthquake/Hurricane) and one is only a pre-BIS that gets replaced with raid trinks (Tsunami), that's why its expensive week 1. On literal fresh Cata private servers it cost that much, and on OG Retail back in the day it was still 20k+ deep into Fireland, with prices only dropping in DS because LFR DS trinkets are very accessible. On Classic its already low 10k, with the deck being even cheaper due to bots flooding the raw mats market.
Cata is fine. It’s just fine. The leveling was fine. The pre raid bis farm was fine. The normal raid difficulty is fine. It’s just ok. It’s not shit like people claimed.
Idk but I am enjoying it way more than WOTLK classic from begining. Raids are cool, classes are fun, pvp is ok? Gearing is very easy and smooth even for alts..
Tier 11 and Firelands progression were always great. Once everyone is 6/7 Heroic Firelands and all you have to do are those annoying dailies, server populations will crash.
Cata classic is WAY better than I thought. Honestly I trash talked it for the last 10 years... but for some reason, I gave it another chance and it's SO MUCH BETTER than I thought! I know... I know... you're thinking "Just a classic Andy. Just a retail cope." Just give it a try before you judge it. Can you do that? Can you actually judge something fairly after trying it with an honest attempt?
its okey, it definitely is downfall of wow , but still better feeling when playing than in retail ...but at least in retail you have a lot more to do ...i feel like i had nothing to do sooner than even in wotlk ...probably bcs leveling and progression was way slower
I've been telling people this for like 4+ years. IN the age of the internet ppl do not formulate their own opinions. We watch reviews on movies and decide its not going to be good because some critic gave it a 70 score. I tried cataclysm on an Private Server a few years ago, and it was my first real attempt into the expac, and it really impressed me personally. Lately in life i've chosen to do this with a lot of things, wether its a restturant, a movie etc. Often I find what I enjoy or like isnt always what others may like. Try stuff out, dont be afraid for things not to meet your expectations, at least you wont rob yourself of something you enjoy just because a random stranger has their own opinion.
There were 2 big dropoffs in vanilla Cata, in the first phase because the content was too difficult (we got the nerfed version of content right away thankfully). The second big dropoff was during the last phase, because Dragon Soul was a bad raid IMO and it lasted way too long. This time around we'll probably only see a 4-6 month Dragon Soul phase before MoP classic which should help keep players somewhat.
i was going to try it but since i didn't play wrath they deleted my tbc character from classic, so meh nm :P
@@Syleion more to do... more chores to do.
Questing through cataclysm's zones once is great, and im having a blast levelling a character through it, then I will be in the MoP waiting room
I'm having a fucking blast. Progressing 10man heroic with my guild has been some of the most fun i've had. I don't think any previous raid tier in classic have been this fun so far.
I personally play cata excusively for the pvp and its been pretty fun overall.
Have this very vague memory of a druid friend convicing me to try arena for the first time ever in cata. Was amazing and kept up casual arena until end of legion lol
What class do you play?
@@Caperfin Maining rogue, but honestly I have the most fun on my mage alt. The class design for mage in pvp is really fun in cata, both frost and fire.
retail junkie it got me 2 convert lol
the pvp was so good ( i think they did a solid job on raids too)
Cata was the golden age of WoW PVP, it's in MoP where it started to get bloated with too much self healing then WoD went full retail design.
@@magicaltomatoes ne legion went full retail design
@@magicaltomatoes mop pvp was good. season 15 was the best pvp ever
Wow it’s almost like people forgot Cataclysm was well Cataclysm 😂
People don’t even know why Cata left a sour taste obviously, the reason people hated it so much was the fact we got dragon soul….. for almost a year!
@@joelswatten9611still took 12 year old me who was raiding week 1 of ds to clear heroic after the nerfs started rolling in. Vaguely remember moving raiding on a dongle for ages and still only killed gunship first night after first 5% nerf lol. I kept busy I cleared heroic by the end on all roles but tank who managed 6H
@@joelswatten9611 LFR and Dragon soul and obviously they can just not do lfr and Dragon soul wasn't even that bad an can be adjusted it and it's catch up dungeons are amazing
I hate when people talk about heirlooms "ruin" lvling and then pretend like you can't do the same thing in vanilla. Like surprise surprise if you send your alt boe/boa items that are enchanted heirlooms or not your going to have a easy af time lvling. Like obviously if you give your character gear with good stats its going to preform well above what the game was designed for making it even bigger of a joke.
I think that is only one aspect. The other aspect is it ruins a lot of the fun of getting new gear, because who cares when your weapon and a bunch of other slots auto upgrade. You can wear subpar gear in the other slots and still clean up.
You can twink an alt with better gear but heirlooms makes it much easier to do. Trying to twink a guy at every stage is time and gold intensive. It's not something most people would normally do.
@@zaatas sure but my point Is heirlooms don't ruin lvling, min max mentality does. If you want gear to matter just don't use them.... But people won't do that instead they will just complain.
@@Zemilia22 I mean, sure, most people want a challenge, but most people don't want it to be self-imposed. Also, I don't accept that personally, you shouldn't have to game a game to make it good. Also also, this is an an mmo, and people are competitive, if everyone putting up the good numbers is wearing heirloom gear, they will also want that gear to not be left behind.
Your argument is basically, we shouldn't need laws because people should just be good, while I agree with that sentiment in spirit, I whole heartedly disagree with it when we try to actually apply it in the real world.
@@zaatas your argument is null when you say people want a challenge, lvling has never been a challenge in wow. Hell even hardcore wasn't hard people died because they made stupid choices and had to make it hard on themselves. Wow blew up because of how easy it was to play compared to other mmos so this idea that it was hard is just not true. I'm sorry but if your worried about parsing in lvling dungeons your a part of the min max culture thats slowly killing off games lol.
Also your analogy is awful, you are not required to use heirlooms to lvl up stop coping lol. My argument is that you must be the type of person to use summons in elden ring and use broken builds and complain the game is to easy.
@@Zemilia22 Being challenged can mean a lot of different things. At one point you did have to pay attention to pulls, or rest more between pulls. Quests were more spread out, and add-ons were more primitive. There was a more tactical aspect to the game that didn't involve face rolling the mobs. This happened in wrath really.
And I've played older mmos on launch, they weren't that hard either, they just punished you for failure much more harshly, most of the gameplay was very basic even compared to vanilla rotations.
There is no cope, just that human nature is complicated, and the solution is more complicated than just don't use them, because it's a MMO and it changes the dynamic of the game.
Heirlooms were just a part of the overall change in game design that made it too face rolly. If you like that fine, I don't mind it, but some people didn't enjoy the change.
I enjoy raiding, but thats it. The heroics aren't fun, world feels soulless. Still having fun 6hours per weak during the two raid days I do
had to play sod to realize how good cata is
I understand leveling is part of the mmorpg exp how ever for a game that can be played in many different ways i feel leveling is the least good part of it and its down to end game cata was a good mid ground of both for leveling i believe
The problem with Cata was it was basically the story after the story. Leading up to Wow, Warcraft 3 set up the big bad as the Lich King, which we killed in Wolk. So you have this whole vacuum of lore following that expansion. Combine that with them redesigning the world so it isnt Vanilla anymore, harder dungeons, and an abysmal final tier and you pretty much sum up the failure that was Cata.
change of world isnt definitely a reason, why it wasnt vanilla anymore ...i like that change, so it isnt the same and atleast, we had a reason to lvl up ,be and spend time in old zones unlike retail where u dont even know what is kalimdor :D harder dungeons are just plus ,also raids ...for me its luck of content and huge changes of classes and combat system and combat animations of most of the spells
@@Syleion You may like it, but did you play it back in the day? It was jarring for alot of players. It was essentially changing the game from original WoW to retail WoW.
sounds like everyone is blinded by warcraft III's content then. I hate Deathwing, this motherfucking dragon keeps ruining my in game experience. I won't tryhard 4.3 because of him. Throughout the years I grew more attached to the lich king, so I can undertand the wow's playerbase. But. If you read the books, he is no random dragon, as much as I hate him currently, as far as i'm concerned, and because I remember how everyone reacted in 2010 and 2012, people are just blinded for no particular reason. They thought MoP was a joke, well too bad, while Deathwing was sleeping during WIII, the pandas were there, already there. I mean it's fine, people can believe what they want, and I also believe cata isn't classic, but the same biased opinion over and over again... (as far how we discover Pandaria, don't ask me, they have a point)
Dungeons of Warcraft instead of World of Warcraft. You teleport yourself to highlevels from dungeon to dungeon instead of playing in the now empty but better looking world....which makes the redesign somewhat obsolete already again. If people dont like it to play and level in a world of warcraft - why even bother to create it, why does it even exist?
Strange decissions of the developers.
@@gaetanguillot9305 Pandas were definitely a side quest. And like I said before, you can like it all you want, but the lore following WolK was definitely changed. Many players didnt like this.
3:00 youre right. i stopped running random heroics because the people i got matched with were absolute dog shit. even worse is that you have a dungeon guide that details what bosses can and will do. it's incredibly annoying how so many players just wipe, even much worse with this soft ass generation because if you complain they take it personal since they cant handle criticism. i got suspended and chat restricted because a tank kept wiping in black rock heroic. all i simply did was offer to help with boss mechanics but the tank would ignore me and so did the other party members. after not wanting to wipe for the 4th time i told him that it's okay to ask for help if you dont know boss mechanics. they voted to kick me, it passed, i then went on to message the rest of the party members asking why they would kick me when all i did was try offering to help so we dont keep wiping. then they reported me for harassment and i was suspended. i loved how when i offered to help, not a single person responded to me, but when i was mad about the kick, they all responded. i tried appealing the suspension and that failed.. havent been back to random heroics since because it's not the first time something like that has happened to me and ill be damned if i get suspended again. gaming changed so much.. i cant stand this new generation of sensitive babies. you used to be able to tell somebody to go practice and that's it. end of discussion. you tell people to go practice today and all hell breaks loose smfh.
“Was Sunwell that hard?”
Me having ptsd from Brutallus and Muru progression
I still have nighmares of Brut to this day
I’m having a great time playing my class is fun so I’m happy
I know he's reacting but huh who thinks cata is the worst expansion every. I mean Mabey players who quit leading up to or during cata and never came back. Outside of that pretty sure 99.9% of players would agree WoD or Shadowlands is the worst expansion ever.
I wouldn’t say it’s the worst ever. It’s just the beginning of the end of real wow
It’s the nail in the coffin for vanilla andys back in the day. Cata was the point it became era pservers or bust.
SL was by far the worst to the point where some of it has already been retconned. Doubt we ever deal with anything SL related until they surely bring back the Banshee Queen to fight the void.
Cata is when the design philosophy drastically changed and its whqt eventually let to WoD and Shadowlands.
Wod had the same issue as cata in a way. Lack of content that made it past development causing long tiers. I really enjoyed hm and brf and coming back end of wod was funeven tho everyone was crying they were bored but still playing
If they hadnt forced the realm transfers i would love it...but screw blizz for that
Cata was the beginning of the end.
i'm having fun on cata just doing bgs and arena only personnaly, the lvling was alright too, with 0 heirlooms i got to 85 in a week i think just spamming rdf, i gotta say tho its starting to feel like a solo game again like retail wow, you don't need anyone to do anything, i don't have this feeling of community like on vanilla/tbc/wotlk, in cata i just queue for pvp and that's it i rarely talk to anyone because i don't have to ?, makes me miss vanilla wow sometimes
And in terms of Vanilla. For me Vanilla is a levelling game not end content game. Because after playing A LOT of Vanilla I came to realization that if you are not playing warrior, rogue, mage or priest (maybe shaman) - you are fooling yourself.
I’m writing it as a person who mained hunter and resto druid
I think your take on this, is spot on for most of the ppl that play cata guzu, and u are able to see pros and cons for different categories of the playerbase! U should be the one making videos like this haha
quality content watching someone's gameplay and talking
So I never played Wow until maybe WOD - I only briefly popped on - come 2019 I played classic then TBC wrath and as of recent Cata - I can say without bias that TBC is the best exp Wow has done.
With Classic as my second choice with Wrath 3rd.
Cata is ok but overall doesn't offer anything compared to the other expansions.
With Wrath, they added extra loot to grind in dungeons - TBC dungeons were much more fun to play ( talking as someone who never played from the start so all pretty new to me).
Cata feels as if to just hit 85 and then spam raids - nothing else. Very hollow.
to me it offers so much less than wrath from storytelling or questing and 100% dungeon play doesn't even come close to TBC, Vashj'ir was my favorite area to play in cata with a decent storyline and being different aesthetically,
but that's it!
I have a feeling Blizzard is trying to move us through each Exp to retail to increase average spending via the store.
Lotro did the same thing with legendary servers - as they don't just want the sub they want you to be buying gold and mounts and all the extra crap we never really need from the store.
They are already doing it now, testing the water. Cata is ok but I only play to potter about and I think some people want to live in the old glory days again and be a try hard, I feel the customer base is much older now and just wants easy fun interactive groups rather than queue spam dungeon/raid and leave without saying a word to each other. Talking as someone who shares the same views of a lot of like-minded players.
My order:
1. TBC
2. Classic
3. Wrath
4. Cata
I hope one day they will release a fresh server to move into TBC from classic or allow a former classic server to move back into TBC and maybe others to move into Wrath so we all get an option to play want we want.
I know they compared sub numbers saying nobody played TBC but this was launched right at the end of lockdown in most countries - the UK ended all lockdown in Sept 2021 and began removal of restrictions around the end of June 2021 time, with TBC launching around the start of June 2021.
America wasn't far behind and neither was Europe - during COVID we were all at our computers playing, you could just hang outside in the sun all day tossin' a ball around, or you could sit at your computer and do something that matters! - most of us went outside :)
I hope we get the best of everthing in the end.
i disagree. cata removed a huge chunk of the grind that made the game unbearable at times imo. people have lives, and we dont have as much time anymore as we used to.
Cata has been quite fun, but the game has no soul at all, the content is quite challenging but gearing up is quick
Im having more fun in cata than i did in wotlk
Problem with cata was the unfinished middle part no abyssal maw raid and the ending dragon soul a very bad raid compared to others and lfr starting. It was ending so enjoy it now it goes down hill after this
As long as cataclysm is a endgame game it lost soul of vanilla. It's so dumb that devellopers creates a huge world and remastered zones but don't invite players to go in. Devellopers themselves didn't understand their own game
The best part about Raiding is when you are finished and don't have to do it anymore. Then you get to play the game. The purpose of having different lock outs is to be able to "attain" the gear you need to finish a build then the joy you get to experience when you are finished Raiding. MMO's are about completion and having different lockout give you more options to getting there. This is one of the main things I hate about Retail is you are never done doing Dungeons or Raids. It's every week forever and that isn't an MMO.
I don't really understand what you mean, the only way you need to continue playing retail for ever is if you can't clear the content, or if you want to be an ultra tryhard in M+ for score. Either way you can be long bis geared way before that point.
@@krunky3696 M+ is part of the problem with Retail. It was a mistake. Mythic Raids are also a mistake. There is no need for that many difficulties.
What I mean is I want to do dungeons or Raids to see them then...THEN be finished with them. The goal is to complete them so you can move onto the rest of the game.
There really is so much more to MMO's than Dungeons or Raiding. Which is why players have stopped playing Retail.
@@WhatIfTheories then you shouldn't play wow at all, it has and always will be a poor choice for more than dungeons and raiding. Sounds like FF14 would be a better choice for you tbh.
The addon isnt bad, but it was the first step to gate keep "casuals"/not so good players. Raids were always another thing, especially since Sunwell, but you can still push bad players through it. I guess Lich King normal mode was the first one where you could oneshot the whole raid and the raid cant compensate it in any way.
But Cata also pushed gate keeping to 5 men dungeons. I acted as a "Wow" teacher for some players of my guild, but it already was too complex at this point and it just wasnt fun anymore for them. Also many were done with their college education during this addon, so it broke apart with Dragon Soul. Its one thing to have difficult raids with hard modes etc, which is ok, but they overtuned it in normal mode. Flex mode during Pandaria had a good starting difficulty, but it was useless because the items were garbage. Could go on, but I doubt anyone will read it. ^^
Maybe it was me being 11/12 or a full casual guild but that difficulty was something I still remember so dam clearly. Barely remember clearing heroic mop, wod and mythic legion
EU Fresh server Zandalar tribe, come on guys Classic Vanilla is waiting us one more time to enjoy our game.
Cata is good compared to all the modern xpacs. But that's the problem, it's a modern xpac, and they all fucking suck. WotLK included
Always thought cata was the reason I quit. Playing it again I realize it was just burn out on the game in general. It's no where near as bad as I remember. It's fine.
I still don't understand why the heck Classic is not on patch-by-patch basis?
Who would want to play whole expansion on the same patch? With unchanging class balance? With nerfed raids and whatnot?
I never understood why this question is never brought up - most people played the game NOT on 1.12 and not on 2.4 and not on 3.5. They played evolving game, the one where you are excited for next Wednesday because new patch is dropping, and you wanna see what it changes for you and for others. Who in the sane mind was excited for "Phase 2" - where the only goddamn change is that PvP servers become an infinite fortnite match?
I would be much more excited to play Vanilla - if it was done "the same way it was in 2004-2006" (c). Hashtagnochanges, thankyouverymuch.
Which means we start at 1.0 and we have each consecutive patch applied one after other, on relatively same timeline. I want to see why Arcanite Reaper was so legendary. I want to see why the "Big Blue Dress" video was created. I want to see unnerfed raids (BC, WotLK) and dungeons (BC, Cata heroics).
You don't need to have this stupid SoD - where you just have abilities from later expansions added onto Classic, but without other balance changes, making it simply a ridiculous sight (see Captain Grim's video about SoD).
You want to have freshness on old vanilla rails? Then repeat every goddamn patch from Classic. Literally dig up all the changelogs, and do exactly what is written in them, however broken or unbalanced it may be. That will bring back "old school wow", and will also feel like entirely new way of playing Vanilla.
Because they can barely get final patch balancing functional, they're not committing dev time to rebuild the game from scratch and progress it patch by patch to a sidepiece that has 2 devs assigned to it. That's also assuming they even have backup of anything more than the final patch. MOP Classic is going to answer this question, because for the first time in Classic there's actually content that needs rebuilding from a state other than its final patch version (Vale of Eternal Blossom) for the game to be functional.
its about as good/bad as i remember it being tbh
where is Firemaw ?? at 10.36 Last time i checked both Firemaw and the RPPVP had players , must be old footage siince i reacall not all of those servers are actually in the game anymore -like patchwerk
Cata sucks so bad and sod is a joke
Yes and it wont get better
Metagoblin really doesn't know what he is talking about, seems like he doesn't even really play the game. The raid lockout idea was a huge BAD take. If you wanna do more raiding. Have an alt. That's what most of us do and it's way more fun. I raid 25 man heroics 2 days a week on one character and 10 man another 2 days on a different character in a different guild. If I had to do double lockouts on both characters I wouldn't have time to progress 2 characters.
I disagree, and would much rather have had just 1 character that i could do 10 and 25 on. Problem is, this decision is a personal preference based on the perspective of that individual player, and that doesn't really leave room for a 1 size fits all answer.
The levelling and raids are okay but I hate the Hunter overhaul. Focus + removing volley makes it so you pretty much a single target rotation and if you try to deviate from that you have focus issues. Mana management was a little more interesting and you could really just open up hardcore on someone in pvp and then viper when not in combat. Not sure if it gets better in later expansions or if its a "get used to it" situation and I may have to change classes.
As someone who never touched hunter before cata and ended cata as a hunter main this makes me laugh
Playing mana hunter in classic/tbc few years back just felt so shit to me
@@TheZeagon Then you understand my situation, I never played focus hunter and at least for Cata, it feels off.
Guzu says "next" phase will have firelands, that is incorrect. Next phase will have ZA only, Firelands is the third phase and the last phase is dragonsoul.
Cata raiding is just the raids they have now until phase 3
tbf its za and zg, get it right, and its not phase 2, its basically phase 1,5
@@stianbotten836 My mistake its ZG and ZA. But you saying it's 1.5 and not 2 is funny considering its what October for Firelands?
July/Augest/Sept/Oct. While ZA and ZG should be sometime this month. 1.5 is silly. So their phases are 1 1.5 2 3? Wut, why have a 1.5? 1/2/3/4 Makes more sense from a business standpoint. (And quarterly report.) phase 1 was Cata launch and first raid. Phase 2 is ZA/ZG phase 3 is Firelands and phase 4 is Dragonsoul.
Don't get upset just because the only thing Cata has to look forward to for 4 months is ZA/ZG. Rofl, Lmao even.
Reason its 1.5 is because There is no raid, but you don’t know when firelands will be out, There has been no confirmation, but a few more months with bwd and bot wouldn’t hurt, its such a good phase, best so far in Classic, so i am having a blast, loving every moment of it :)
We gotta stop calling this game a MMORPG
It is by definition exactly an MMORPG though
@@krunky3696 not anymore home skillet. theres no RP or RPG at all in WoW.
@@TheCrunchitizer well, it is a game, and people RP in it so... go to a RP server if you want RP.
Cata is retail minus
Been logging in on sod more atm my dailies in catta were just log in get 10 or 20 air water fire for my alky transmute. But also feel i need to donsome more mop before it ends but will see.
I enjoy Cata so far
The main concern for me was levelling. Super rushed, no challenge, no need to collaborate, loot changes every half hour.
If you should not feel invested in levelling - why have it in the first place?
Just for a reference
I got to 60 on hardcore (so no speed minmaxing) in 8 days of gameplay.
I got to level 80 on a fresh char with 0 heirlooms in 2 days. X4 faster for the content of three xpacks instead of one.
I was hyped to run through TBC once again and ended up finishing it in 1 evening. 58-68 in one evening
Because the playerbase, even back in the day detested leveling and (rightfully) see it as a way for Blizzard to milk a month of subs out of you, as well as $$$ in out of date expac to be able to play current content. Recruit a Friend came about during Wrath and everyone abused the fuck out of it. Leveling was only relevant content during Vanilla (and due to the endgame being non-existent and was really only added in as an afterthought in later content patches by Blizz).
@@dumpsterplayer5133 do not generalize it. Just a year ago people went crazy about hardcore which is purely levelling
@sidyaking hc is an extremely small subset of the player base, splintered off an already small niche (vanilla only players). SoD release also decimated the HC population, which points out that a lot of the HC players are just following whatever the latest Vanilla F R E S H trend is, leaving only the dedicated HC player behind.
Ultimately you can even see this mentality shift occur in real time in the history of classic with how soon mage boosting and dungeoncleave levelling popped up and how rampant they become. Past the first character experience, most people just see levelling as a chore, and this trend back in the day was why Cata set out to completely overhaul the old world
dude ur talking over the video its so annoying im not watching this
are you slow lmao?
Cata was okay, I had fun gearing up in heroics but ultimately I’d rather play SoD or Retail these days.
i tried out cata it was fun gameplay wise for a bit but its just not the same I couldnt get into it. Everyone just sits in capital cities queuing up for dungeons. progging raids for weeks is not fun and the p2w environment is pretty lame. In the first couple weeks in terms of wow tokens it would have taken 700$+ canadian to get pre bis thats just stupid, that darkmoon trinket alone was 50k gold so almost 300$ just for that one item. I know the p2w and gdkp has become the norm in classic and players are okay with spending hundreds of irl dollars on gear but after sod and deviate delight era i cant go back to that garbage.
That's around what it costed back in the days as well, Classic inflation is significantly faster than the OG game in pacing due to bots but for the most part price on craftable goods are balanced out by mats being dirt cheap also due to bots, its only world BoE that are significantly more expensive. Even on fresh Cata private servers with no previous economy you'd have Volcano going for 50k+ first week, its a multiphase BIS trinket that requires a large amount of mats to craft due to its semi-RNG nature. Go back and look at some old MMO Champion post about it, you're going to see it in the 20k+ range even in posts made into Fireland (mid 2011).
And due to bots flooding the market with cheap mats and DMF coming twice a month, its now 10k on big servers in Classic. But sure, lets blame the GDKP boogieman
@@dumpsterplayer5133 lol boogeyman, saying that gdkp isnt the main driving force for gold buying is just putting your head in the sand to the blatantly obvious. to each their own, If people wanna swipe thats fine. pretty much everyone does it on these servers, if ppl like the p2w system thats their choice but i just cant go back to a server like that after going back and playing sod. Spending hundreds of dollars on gear that only lasts a couple months is too rich for me. i know a guy who spent 40,000$ canadian throughout 2019-2023 on gdkp alone he was literally spending 1000$ a month lol
@@Yams42279 Its a boogieman because it literally has nothing to do with why Volcano is expensive, and I literally told you why, but that's what you immediately go for anyway because clearly everything you can't afford on a boomerdad dalies route income must be """"P2W""".
Its a multiphase BIS trinket that cost an absurd amount of mats to make due to its lottery nature, you have to assemble a full deck where half of the card pool is vendor trash (Earthquake/Hurricane) and one is only a pre-BIS that gets replaced with raid trinks (Tsunami), that's why its expensive week 1. On literal fresh Cata private servers it cost that much, and on OG Retail back in the day it was still 20k+ deep into Fireland, with prices only dropping in DS because LFR DS trinkets are very accessible. On Classic its already low 10k, with the deck being even cheaper due to bots flooding the raw mats market.
Cata is fine. It’s just fine. The leveling was fine. The pre raid bis farm was fine. The normal raid difficulty is fine. It’s just ok. It’s not shit like people claimed.
Idk but I am enjoying it way more than WOTLK classic from begining. Raids are cool, classes are fun, pvp is ok? Gearing is very easy and smooth even for alts..
Might as well play retail if you’re going to play SOD or Cata
hell no. i left retail for cata. retail is trash.
yes
Dogshit expansion same loot from 10/25 and lockouts suk deek