2. A person in a spacesuit without cooling will over heat in something around 15 minutes. That happened during the pre-breathe phase of one of our vacuum chamber suit training test for an astronaut. However, it heat isn't too bad with the helmet off. Since the prebreathe was a sea level pressure, the astronaut recovered once his helmet was removed.
3. Story Musgrave was a tough guy. He was in a thermal-vacuum test of some mission related tools in our Chamber B and almost got frostbite on his thumb and forefinger from operating tools and other cold (-120 deg F?) for an hour or two in that vacuum test. He explained that his fingers were cold for a while, but then the cold feeling went away. We had to incorporate a test rule to require crew members to stop every 15 minutes to report how cold they felt and to give their fingers a chance to warm up a little. I saw Story's finger tips after he got out of the chamber and his thumb and forefinger were with white with oval areas of a very odd looking grey tint.
ive actually had that too, after awhile you stop feeling the cold and it actually becomes a fairly pleasant warmth. your fingers then turn greyish white as all the blood retreats out. there are stories of ppl lost in the tundra who took off their jackets because they felt so hot and froze to death ironically
I'm gonna go out on a limb and bet that there aren't any Cosmonaut stories quite like that... because Russians learn what frostbite is and how it can cost you a finger before they reach double digit ages.
@@sudazima Once your core temperature drops below a critical level (I think around 85F/29C) your thalamus goes into last-ditch mode and pulls all the blood out of your extremities into your core. Going from moderate hypothermia (which is absolute hell) to severe hypothermia is supposedly not so bad. You feel warmer, stop shivering, become delirious and start to lose consciousness. The paradoxical undressing thing is caused by the very end stage, where the brain starts to fail and the stored blood gets suddenly released back into the extremities, where it produces a "burning" sensation which (coupled with the delirium) causes people to undress right before they die.
@@Rutherford_Inchworm_III The burning sensation you described sounds like the burning feeling you get when your hands get very cold and you warm them up too fast(like running warm water over them, which is a big mistake I'll add.) Very painful, couldn't imagine that over your whole body.
@@davetremaine9763 quite right, speaking from experience of many years of playing in snow and ice fishing down to -35 C. Even warming up indoors in warm-ish air is painful. Put your cold feet and hands in cold water, and slowly add warm water. Warm water on cold extremities is a very, very bad idea.
Hi Scott, the best line I heard whilst listening to an EVA when they where building the ISS using the Shuttle was when a pin refused to go into a hole after being hit, the astronaut reported that it was not working to mission control who replied with the classic line "we suggest that you hit it with a bigger hammer", the astronaut did as he was told and the bigger hammer worked.
@@deflatedfruit4716 Hi Scott, from memory this was around 15-16 years ago whilst they were attaching a sub assembly to the ISS, this was broadcast on NASA TV at the time, I have had a look on youtube but can't find a reference to it, I will try the NASA and JPL library and see what that turns up.
Fun fact: "Glideslope of a brick" In the late 80s I had the privilege piloting a full scale shuttle sim. It was "heavy" to put it mildly. The good news was that one way or another, you'd wind up on the ground.
"The case where a brave shuttle astronaut would have to ride in the back of the space shuttle instead of, you know, in the cabin with everyone else" - I think I've had KSP flights like that.
At least he made it back, unlike his poor fellow kerbal who was accidently left in the lunar lander that was sent back to de-orbit on the mun... (Yes, I like clean orbits and "proper" handling of space junk)
Wow those openings on the underside of the shuttle where the main fuel tank connected look awesome. I love seeing aerospace grade materials, fittings etc up close. Just imagine how many hours went into designing even the smallest details of each spring length, strength, resistance to wild temperatures etc. I never even thought about how they plumbed the fuel from that big orange tank, through the shuttle and into the main engines.
1. A "rescue sphere" was proposed at one time. Shuttles would fly the inflatable space suit fabric spheres in a addition to the two or three spacesuits. The sphere included oxygen bottles with masks for breathing and the exhaled oxygen would pressurize the sphere. If something came up that would prevent a re-entry, a rescue shuttle would be launched. Two crew members (or maybe three) would help the other crewmembers don the spheres then they would don the spacesuits, depressurize the shuttle and transfer the spheres to the rescue shuttle. Of course, the two crewmembers in the rescue shuttle would have to don spacesuits and depressurize that cabin.
FWIW: I remember seeing a photo of one of those with a test subject {human being} inside of it. This was _years_ ago. It was in a *NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC* magazine, or some other publication.
Story Musgrave did 6 space flights and also got 6 accademic degrees whilst having 7 children. Holy Moly ! And on the seventh day he rested. Before doing his 12 hobbies.
Story is a legend. I like to think that his stunt helped build confidence for contingencies where an EVA crew would have been stuck riding in the back without a seat. Awesome video, Scott.
That story about the standing re-entry reminds me of the Martian. "They drank 3 whiskey sours, drove their corvettes to the launchpad and took off into outer space."
Remind me to watch that movie. I tried watching the Brad Pitt one from a few years ago the other day but MAN the physics were terrible... tumbling to Earth from orbit like a falling brick lmao
Hi Scott, about 15 years ago, I had the privilege of spending a couple of weeks on a research project with two retired astronauts (Mario Runco and Jeff Hoffman). In one of our late night scotch sessions, they described the contingency spacewalk to close the umbilical doors. It’s more or less as you said, though they referred to it as the “Cowboy Spacewalk.” The idea was to attach a laundry bag to the end of a tether, swing it over their heads while in the suit, and catch it in the gap between the belly flap (that’s under the SSMEs) and the trailing edge of the wing, not the gap further out in the wing. From there, they would tighten up the tether, climb down it, and then swing around underneath the orbiter. From there, they would then reach out to where the doors were, then basically use a ratchet to run the mechanism and close the doors. Here’s the catch: in order to reach from the tail flap to the doors, the astronaut performing the EVA had to have at least a 6 foot arm span. In later missions, they apparently realized that the shuttle was maneuverable enough that instead of going through that whole rigamarole, the astronaut would be dropped off free-floating in space, and the shuttle pilot would then use the RCS thrusters to maneuver it around them and present the belly to the astronaut (potentially in concert with the SAFR system).
@@kosmique I wonder what those kinds of people will think if space travel becomes trivially cheap in our lifetime? Let alone if we ever make contact with an extra-terrestrial civ or have one come here.
@Warriorcat49 - one can only wonder... But, given the physics involved it doesn't seem likely that space travel will ever be trivially cheap. XD Though, a space elevator or orbital ring or similar large construct might just about get us close enough to that... I mean, all it really needs is to get to the level of air travel in the 80's, where a ticket over non-trivial distances was on the order of $1000-$3000 for budget options. That would in turn require launch prices on the order of $20 a kg or less... So... Pretty long way to go yet. XD
@@TheEffyJohn I have no idea, really - but leveraging my knowledge from The Algebraist; maybe shear between weather fronts (air masses) moving at different speeds and/or different directions.
This reminds me of an alternate history story I read where the Columbia crew actually learned about their damaged tiles and did some of these procedures to try and fix them.
I remember I had pictures of Musgrave and all the STS crews on my bedroom wall when I was a kid. My dad would always bring home the press glossies from NASA before each mission. I also remember how in school, we'd get to watch the launches live in class whenever they happened during school hours. The shuttle launches were a big deal during the early part of the program. Sadly, I also remember seeing the Challenger explosion live in school and not really understanding what had happened until I got home. The teacher just turned off the TV and pretended nothing was amiss. Must've been a difficult choice for her at the time.
There will always be those heroes who went a step further for others, 61 years old just shows he had the knowledge of surfing the trip down, I bet he was singing away at a beachboys song too!! ☺️
Thanks for the Story Musgrave anecdote. I had the pleasure of hearing him speak at GE about how his rural upbringing and life experiences prepared him for spaceflight and ultimately the Hubble repair mission
I worked for the first 3 Shuttle missions at Cape Canaveral and I have an original manual that breaks down everything inside or outside the space shuttle. I am basically keeping it from many people that would probably enjoy it more than I do. It is in excellent condition!
I remember STS 1 mission and hearing the payload doors could be closed by a hand crank in the payload bay. Until the Spacelab module was in place and blocked the crank. The Canadian Arm could be jettisoned by explosive bolts.
Might I add Story is an incredible guy. Met him in Huntsville one year. Told some incredible stories. All around amazing guy and I’m proud to share a name with him.
@@joecaves6235 We must have the same type of friends. ME: Here hold my beer. ME: Does something totally stupid ME: Where's me beer? FRIEND: (BURPS LOUDLY) Here (HANDS ME EMPTY BEER CAN)
Darel Datt , I saw something very much like that in the night sky over Phoenix, Az. a few years back. Never knew they existed till then. Could it have come from the Baja which is so close by?
One of the payload bay door tube cutters is on display at the Atlantis exhibit where the procedure is briefly described. The spacelab hiccup isn't mentioned there, very interesting detail. Also, I'm convinced Story's efficient hairstyle was critical in allowing him to keep cool enough to make it through reentry standing up without any cooling.
Dang this was a great video. Nostalgia is in over time for me. I was as excited watching the space shuttle missions back then as I am watching SpaceX today.
Story Musgrave is a man's man. He's also a brilliant intellectual with a common man's approach to things.. But that's my opinion of him based on what I've seen over the years.
They had self propelled eva suits early in the program, but for some reason(likely cost) stopped developing them. Having these suits could have mitigated tones of the issues related to on mission inspection and repair. My guess is that the umbilical doors were meant to be serviced, if needed, by an astronaut in one of the eva suits. Maybe a great idea for a scott manley video to look into those!
I've had the pleasure and honour of working with Story Musgrave - he is a remarkable man in many aspects which most people are not aware of. His other accomplishments include trauma surgeon and test pilot for NASA's T-38 chase plane fleet, in addition to designing all of the tooling and procedures for the first repair of the Hubble telescope (and actually carrying out the three of the five repair spacewalks). He is the only astronaut to ever have flown on all five shuttles and he was a personal friend of Wernher von Braun.
Riding back to Earth in the trunk, that would have been something! I was thinking of Story Musgrave while you were talking about that and then you mentioned him :-)
Scott, If there was ever Best episode ever on your channel. This would be the best episode! Particularly because of the closing comments. “Surfing” lol. Love it!
On Christmas Day 1993, I was a last-minute extra on a flight out of Sarajevo to Zagreb on a Skylink IL-76. All the troop seats were taken up by soldiers heading home on leave, so I and the Army Command Sergeant-Major sat side-by-side on the floor of the plane with our backs against a plastic-wrapped pallet of kit-bags and flew out that way, hanging onto the cargo rails and admiring the decorative duct-tape patches over the bullet holes in the fuselage. I thought that was a pretty badass way to travel until I read about Story Musgrave's standing landing on the freaking space shuttle a few years later. I tip my kevlar brain-bucket to you, sir. (P.S. Love the gunstar on your shelf, Scott! Keep up the great work.)
There had been a previous incident where a different shuttle (Atlantis, I think?) survived re-entry with several damaged tiles and a couple missing tiles, so I think by that point the mission controllers had simply become too comfortable with the Shuttle's _apparent_ durability.
@@deusexaethera You're right, it was Atlantis. And it suffered such extreme damage to the heat shield that the crew were sure they were going to die. There were over 700 damaged tiles and one completely missing tile. The only reason Atlantis survived was because the missing tile happened to be covering a thick steel plate for the L band antenna. If it weren't for that plate it's possible Atlantis would've burned up on reentry.
@@AngryRockMan: Yes, I am aware of the details. My point is, after seeing a Shuttle survive reentry with such severe damage, it seems entirely plausible that even well-informed professionals would become confident in the Shuttle's durability -- unfortunately, too confident.
Nevermind the fact they could have rushed preparations and sent up Discovery (i believe it was that one) up to rescue the astronauts before Columbia ran out of supplies. But rolling the dice with their lives was cheaper.
@earthly firefly5 Why do you think badly of him? Why would I be a liar for admiring him? Your assertions make no sense to me. Every time I've seen Story Musgrave make a presentation or give an interview, he seems like a genuine and honest guy. I see no evidence to the contrary.
@@rbharms1 True on earth. I think they probably didn't bother to add 1% argon to the mix... But CO2 and probably CH4 were added in more than ample quantity to the shuttles atmosphere by the astronauts themselfes...
I can just imagine the austronauts pulling over in space, putting on their spacesuits, and replacing a flat tire on the landing gear with the spare as if the shuttle is the family car xD
Story Musgrave is one of the most amazing human beings who ever lived. He dropped out of high school and joined the Marines, where he got his GED. He earned *6* academic degrees: a B.S. in mathematics and statistics, an M.B.A. in operations analysis and computer programming, a B.A. in chemistry, an M.D., an M.S. in physiology and biophysics, a M.A. in literature. He flew 6 times into space, on all 5 space shuttles, repaired the Hubble, has 17,000 hours in 160 different aircraft, over 800 free fall parachute jumps, has written or been listed as a co-author of twenty five scientific papers. He was a trauma surgeon, astronaut, professor, scientist and father to 7 children. His life was marked by great tragedy: he came from "an extraordinarily dysfunctional family, full of abuse and alcoholism." His parents, brother and grandfather all committed suicide, and another brother died in the military. He is the most brilliant and inspirational person I've ever met.
Fucketh Thou - Could happen in response to being electrocuted? But as you say I imagine they would skip CPR and probably have a defib or two up there anyway
One thing not mentioned about Musgrave's case is that that flight deck isn't exactly spacious. The total standing room from floor to ceiling is maybe exactly 6'4" is you're standing directly under the dorsal windows on the roof. Anywhere else and you'd likely have to be stood bending over at high-G and during landing.
ifell3 China has enough people to consider death an acceptable plan. Just like old NASA. After Apollo 1 killed the crew, the other astronauts saved the program by publicly emphasizing their willingness to die.
"If EVA preparation time is critical to crew safety, a minimum of 2.5 hours unbroken prebreathe with > 95% oxygen is recommended at a sin pressure above 12.5 psi prior to any cabin or airlock pressure below 8 psi. The frc surgeon shall be consulted for a recommended prebreathe protocol for any contingency EVA"
Great Story Musgrave tale of daring do. I had the opportunity to hear F. Story Musgrave at a small speaking event at his old alma mater, the University of Kentucky. He described the reentry event and showed some very interesting pictures he had taken of the plasma flowing over the orbiter during reentry, but he didn't make it sound nearly as heroic. Real heroes don't brag about their heroic exploits.
What I love is the more and more you learn about NASA the more and more you realize just how new space flight still is and how many different ways we still have to Jerry rig some very important things
Being on the underside of the Space Shuttle out in LEO looks absolutely terrifying to me, I mean EVAs already are panic inducing to watch when they are pretty close to the front but man I can't imagine what it's like to be on the underside. Then again I have a crippling fear of heights and can't even be on a ladder and look up so that might have something to do with it.
80% oxygen at 1 bar would mess you up... that is a ppO2 of .8. Using guidelines from SCUBA diving you can only tolerate that for 450 minutes (7.5 hours) in a 24 hour period. That is why high O2 concentration is normally used at lower pressure.
We moved around a lot when I was a kid, and I rode in the back of plenty of U-Haul trucks driven by my crazy-ass mom. If I can handle that, I don't think shuttle reentry in the cargo bay is going to be a problem. I love you mom.
As an aircraft mechanic it is pretty funny to see things similar to my job but just done in space. Knowing how frustrating it can be on earth I can imagine the challenge in a suit in space!
@@solarshado if on takeoff there was seen a large object striking the front/underside of the wing, I'd take an MMU out untethered. it's that or tumble and burn in the atmosphere.
@edstirling Would they really have enough delta-v? I mean they were meant to move (relatively) low-mass astronauts back and forth around the shuttle, not slow the shuttle enough for a safe(ish) reentry.
in the early shuttle missions, they tested repairing tiles. On networks that covered on morning shows, they would go into a fair amount of detail explaining the process and showed this device that looked like a vacuum cleaner that oozed some type of epoxy..(as well as when it came back they would talk about tiles that fell off) . The good ol days !
Still think the shuttle was great craft. Just needed liquid boosters instead of the solid rockets. To much vibrations and not safe. The boosters caused the challeger disaster. And the vibrations did not help with the foam coming loose on Columbia either. Wish we could have put two falcon 9 ,s to boost the shuttle up. Would have been epic.
Liquid-fuel engines are not much smoother than solid-fuel engines during liftoff. You can adjust the throttle setting a little bit on liquid-fuel engines to try to counteract resonant vibrations, but ultimately you're going to need most if not all of the engines' thrust to get into orbit, so your range of throttle adjustment is very minimal.
Of course, a fully open door could ruin the aerodynamics as well, but NASA worried mostly about the latch mechanism because the payload bay doors were critical parts of the structure during reentry and landing.
So the unlucky astronaut gets to ride in the back of the Space Station Wagon. [Thumbs UP!] Also, Nice Sandia Labs tee-shirt! I'm a Los Alamos boy myself. Props for New Mexico.
Too bad NASA didnt let Columbia be inspected from ground or space. Many engineers suspected the orbiter was damaged. They gambled with their astronauts lives and lost.
"Surfed back from space, at mach 20, in a flying brick."
What a great line.
My thoughts exactly!
Gotta give a bit of a shout out to Space Cowboys
"Hey Y'all, Watch This!"
...followed up immediately with Scott's signoff, "fly safe"... :)
This should be on a tee shirt: "Surfed back from space, at mach 20, in a flying brick... And all I got was this lousy shirt."
2. A person in a spacesuit without cooling will over heat in something around 15 minutes. That happened during the pre-breathe phase of one of our vacuum chamber suit training test for an astronaut. However, it heat isn't too bad with the helmet off. Since the prebreathe was a sea level pressure, the astronaut recovered once his helmet was removed.
That’s pretty awesome!
I imagine removing the helmet to avoid overheating isn't an option up there.
3. Story Musgrave was a tough guy. He was in a thermal-vacuum test of some mission related tools in our Chamber B and almost got frostbite on his thumb and forefinger from operating tools and other cold (-120 deg F?) for an hour or two in that vacuum test. He explained that his fingers were cold for a while, but then the cold feeling went away. We had to incorporate a test rule to require crew members to stop every 15 minutes to report how cold they felt and to give their fingers a chance to warm up a little. I saw Story's finger tips after he got out of the chamber and his thumb and forefinger were with white with oval areas of a very odd looking grey tint.
ive actually had that too, after awhile you stop feeling the cold and it actually becomes a fairly pleasant warmth. your fingers then turn greyish white as all the blood retreats out. there are stories of ppl lost in the tundra who took off their jackets because they felt so hot and froze to death ironically
I'm gonna go out on a limb and bet that there aren't any Cosmonaut stories quite like that... because Russians learn what frostbite is and how it can cost you a finger before they reach double digit ages.
@@sudazima Once your core temperature drops below a critical level (I think around 85F/29C) your thalamus goes into last-ditch mode and pulls all the blood out of your extremities into your core. Going from moderate hypothermia (which is absolute hell) to severe hypothermia is supposedly not so bad. You feel warmer, stop shivering, become delirious and start to lose consciousness. The paradoxical undressing thing is caused by the very end stage, where the brain starts to fail and the stored blood gets suddenly released back into the extremities, where it produces a "burning" sensation which (coupled with the delirium) causes people to undress right before they die.
@@Rutherford_Inchworm_III The burning sensation you described sounds like the burning feeling you get when your hands get very cold and you warm them up too fast(like running warm water over them, which is a big mistake I'll add.) Very painful, couldn't imagine that over your whole body.
@@davetremaine9763 quite right, speaking from experience of many years of playing in snow and ice fishing down to -35 C. Even warming up indoors in warm-ish air is painful. Put your cold feet and hands in cold water, and slowly add warm water. Warm water on cold extremities is a very, very bad idea.
Hi Scott, the best line I heard whilst listening to an EVA when they where building the ISS using the Shuttle was when a pin refused to go into a hole after being hit, the astronaut reported that it was not working to mission control who replied with the classic line "we suggest that you hit it with a bigger hammer", the astronaut did as he was told and the bigger hammer worked.
Can you find a link to the video on youtube?
@@deflatedfruit4716 Hi Scott, from memory this was around 15-16 years ago whilst they were attaching a sub assembly to the ISS, this was broadcast on NASA TV at the time, I have had a look on youtube but can't find a reference to it, I will try the NASA and JPL library and see what that turns up.
Sorry to dig up a thread this old, but I’m just curious if anyone has found it? I need the audio clip for a project.
@@w4drone720hi I did look at the time but couldn’t find it, you could always ask nasa
Fun fact: "Glideslope of a brick" In the late 80s I had the privilege piloting a full scale shuttle sim. It was "heavy" to put it mildly. The good news was that one way or another, you'd wind up on the ground.
"Just get us on the ground, Wash."
"That part I can guarantee, captain."
@@deusexaethera Firefly!
MS Flight Simulator had a shuttle landing mission included since the mid 90's.
@@bonzogamer6966: Yep! Probably misquoted, but you get the gist.
There's a simulator at the Cosi Museum in Columbus Ohio, but it's super disappointing. It handles like a freaking Cessna. No control feedback at all
"The case where a brave shuttle astronaut would have to ride in the back of the space shuttle instead of, you know, in the cabin with everyone else" - I think I've had KSP flights like that.
At least he made it back, unlike his poor fellow kerbal who was accidently left in the lunar lander that was sent back to de-orbit on the mun...
(Yes, I like clean orbits and "proper" handling of space junk)
@@sh4dy832 Rats! *alt-F9*
It’s just a more expensive riding in the back of a pick up truck.
Wow those openings on the underside of the shuttle where the main fuel tank connected look awesome. I love seeing aerospace grade materials, fittings etc up close. Just imagine how many hours went into designing even the smallest details of each spring length, strength, resistance to wild temperatures etc. I never even thought about how they plumbed the fuel from that big orange tank, through the shuttle and into the main engines.
1. A "rescue sphere" was proposed at one time. Shuttles would fly the inflatable space suit fabric spheres in a addition to the two or three spacesuits. The sphere included oxygen bottles with masks for breathing and the exhaled oxygen would pressurize the sphere. If something came up that would prevent a re-entry, a rescue shuttle would be launched. Two crew members (or maybe three) would help the other crewmembers don the spheres then they would don the spacesuits, depressurize the shuttle and transfer the spheres to the rescue shuttle. Of course, the two crewmembers in the rescue shuttle would have to don spacesuits and depressurize that cabin.
FWIW: I remember seeing a photo of one of those with a test subject {human being} inside of it. This was _years_ ago. It was in a *NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC* magazine, or some other publication.
So it's like an early escape pod? Neat!
Why not just regular space suits for everyone?
@@IDoNotLikeHandlesOnYT Lack of storage space.
Those spheres were called "Personal Rescue Enclosure" und were under a metre in diameter - 36 inches.
Story Musgrave did 6 space flights and also got 6 accademic degrees whilst having 7 children.
Holy Moly !
And on the seventh day he rested. Before doing his 12 hobbies.
Yea, man is a genius. I went to a talk with him, quite some years back, so I dont really remember what the topics were, but it was quite interesting.
He never saw a camera he didn’t dislike, however.
After earning his MD, he trained as a surgeon. Years later he repaired the Hubble telescope. So, truly could do rocket surgery.
I wonder who raised those 7 kids while he was playing astronaut and going to school???
Guess you could say he had a story
Story Musgrave = Legend. No question, what an extraordinary Human Being on every level.
Spirit of Jebediah Kerman!
His education credentials read like those of two or three normal astronauts, combined. An amazing man.
"surfed back from space at Mach 20 in a flying brick"
That has to be the most hilariously accurate description of the humanity's space programs.
I would a flying glider.
Sounds like a job for Jebediah Kerman xD
This would also make for the best Twitter bio ever.
He even looks like scott, fly safe...
Story is a legend. I like to think that his stunt helped build confidence for contingencies where an EVA crew would have been stuck riding in the back without a seat. Awesome video, Scott.
RUclips subtitles just displayed: "Hello it's got manly here...."
It's always manly when Scott is in the room.
I can’t say that it’s wrong, though...
RUclips cannot compute the awesomeness of the Scottish accent, even at this level of dilution. What would it do with Glaswegian after ten lagers?
I got "Although it's got manly here" lmao
lol
5:00 wow great fluid dynamic of clouds
That story about the standing re-entry reminds me of the Martian.
"They drank 3 whiskey sours, drove their corvettes to the launchpad and took off into outer space."
Remind me to watch that movie. I tried watching the Brad Pitt one from a few years ago the other day but MAN the physics were terrible... tumbling to Earth from orbit like a falling brick lmao
Hi Scott, about 15 years ago, I had the privilege of spending a couple of weeks on a research project with two retired astronauts (Mario Runco and Jeff Hoffman). In one of our late night scotch sessions, they described the contingency spacewalk to close the umbilical doors. It’s more or less as you said, though they referred to it as the “Cowboy Spacewalk.”
The idea was to attach a laundry bag to the end of a tether, swing it over their heads while in the suit, and catch it in the gap between the belly flap (that’s under the SSMEs) and the trailing edge of the wing, not the gap further out in the wing. From there, they would tighten up the tether, climb down it, and then swing around underneath the orbiter. From there, they would then reach out to where the doors were, then basically use a ratchet to run the mechanism and close the doors. Here’s the catch: in order to reach from the tail flap to the doors, the astronaut performing the EVA had to have at least a 6 foot arm span.
In later missions, they apparently realized that the shuttle was maneuverable enough that instead of going through that whole rigamarole, the astronaut would be dropped off free-floating in space, and the shuttle pilot would then use the RCS thrusters to maneuver it around them and present the belly to the astronaut (potentially in concert with the SAFR system).
This ‘maneuver around the stationary astronaut’ concept is so amusing to me.
5:01 look at those cloud patterns! A textbook case of vortex shedding I've ever seen one
@@kosmique I wonder what those kinds of people will think if space travel becomes trivially cheap in our lifetime? Let alone if we ever make contact with an extra-terrestrial civ or have one come here.
I noticed those too. What could be causing them? Mountains?
@Warriorcat49 - one can only wonder...
But, given the physics involved it doesn't seem likely that space travel will ever be trivially cheap. XD
Though, a space elevator or orbital ring or similar large construct might just about get us close enough to that...
I mean, all it really needs is to get to the level of air travel in the 80's, where a ticket over non-trivial distances was on the order of $1000-$3000 for budget options.
That would in turn require launch prices on the order of $20 a kg or less...
So... Pretty long way to go yet. XD
@@Warriorcat49 Well none of those things is happening so think of some other scenario.
@@TheEffyJohn I have no idea, really - but leveraging my knowledge from The Algebraist; maybe shear between weather fronts (air masses) moving at different speeds and/or different directions.
This reminds me of an alternate history story I read where the Columbia crew actually learned about their damaged tiles and did some of these procedures to try and fix them.
I remember I had pictures of Musgrave and all the STS crews on my bedroom wall when I was a kid. My dad would always bring home the press glossies from NASA before each mission. I also remember how in school, we'd get to watch the launches live in class whenever they happened during school hours. The shuttle launches were a big deal during the early part of the program. Sadly, I also remember seeing the Challenger explosion live in school and not really understanding what had happened until I got home. The teacher just turned off the TV and pretended nothing was amiss. Must've been a difficult choice for her at the time.
There will always be those heroes who went a step further for others, 61 years old just shows he had the knowledge of surfing the trip down, I bet he was singing away at a beachboys song too!! ☺️
You should do a Smarter Every Day parody, but say "I'm Scott and you're getting manlier every day"
It's a pun
@@caitlinfrank6206 no
Thanks for the Story Musgrave anecdote. I had the pleasure of hearing him speak at GE about how his rural upbringing and life experiences prepared him for spaceflight and ultimately the Hubble repair mission
Mussgrave was lucky there was no flight attendant to tell him "you must go back to your seat Sir." :-D
not that that would matter anyway. you cant sop a madlad
Just look at that smirk on his face, he had this planned.
I worked for the first 3 Shuttle missions at Cape Canaveral and I have an original manual that breaks down everything inside or outside the space shuttle. I am basically keeping it from many people that would probably enjoy it more than I do. It is in excellent condition!
Cool
I remember STS 1 mission and hearing the payload doors could be closed by a hand crank in the payload bay. Until the Spacelab module was in place and blocked the crank. The Canadian Arm could be jettisoned by explosive bolts.
Chris Cheshire In which case the procedure shown would be loosening all those explosive bolts one by one in case they didn't explode on command.
Might I add Story is an incredible guy. Met him in Huntsville one year. Told some incredible stories. All around amazing guy and I’m proud to share a name with him.
6:30 just going to gloss over the fact that they seriously considered stuffing ice in a potential hole in the shuttle wing?
truly a case of "got any better ideas?"
@@dsdy1205 Ice would not work by any stretch of the imagination.
"I'm a backseat astronaut. Ride safe?!? Yeehaw!"
14:22 You can tell he's pretty chuffed with himself.
"Dad, who's the man walking around astronaut school telling everyone they're pussies and in his day they stood for reentry?.'
Deservedly so
My question is: Who was holding Story Musgrave's beer while this was happening?
Never let anyone hold my beer. Do it one armed, single handed, sometimes chugging, occasionally letting Deez nuts hold my beer.
Who was holding his ginormous balls?
@D.O.A. and didn't spill a drop!
@@joecaves6235 We must have the same type of friends.
ME: Here hold my beer.
ME: Does something totally stupid
ME: Where's me beer?
FRIEND: (BURPS LOUDLY) Here (HANDS ME EMPTY BEER CAN)
The Canada Arm
Dirty Laundry Grappling Hook? I have a feeling that in a life or death situation, that any kind of laundry would have been acceptable.
Absolutely not! Crystallized sweat and discarded pubes add reaction mass!
@@deusexaethera that's a 4 star comment right there
@@thetobyntr9540: =D
Dirty Laundry Grappling Hook is also a great band name!
another quality piece of entertainment and education from our fave space nerd...... Scott " I'm given you all she's got Captain" Manley.....
5:01 There are some beautiful cloud vortices spilling off downwind of an island seen below the shuttle.
Ooohhh indeed! Good catch!
5:00 that is one huge von karman vortex pattern in the backgroud
I hadn't noticed that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Very cool.
You mean *Von Kerman*
Darel Datt , I saw something very much like that in the night sky over Phoenix, Az. a few years back. Never knew they existed till then. Could it have come from the Baja which is so close by?
One of the payload bay door tube cutters is on display at the Atlantis exhibit where the procedure is briefly described. The spacelab hiccup isn't mentioned there, very interesting detail.
Also, I'm convinced Story's efficient hairstyle was critical in allowing him to keep cool enough to make it through reentry standing up without any cooling.
Dang this was a great video. Nostalgia is in over time for me. I was as excited watching the space shuttle missions back then as I am watching SpaceX today.
Story Musgrave is a man's man. He's also a brilliant intellectual with a common man's approach to things..
But that's my opinion of him based on what I've seen over the years.
I agree with Frank's opinion. That's similar to my impression of Story, right or wrong.
Tom Johnson - That escalated quickly! 😯
They had self propelled eva suits early in the program, but for some reason(likely cost) stopped developing them. Having these suits could have mitigated tones of the issues related to on mission inspection and repair. My guess is that the umbilical doors were meant to be serviced, if needed, by an astronaut in one of the eva suits. Maybe a great idea for a scott manley video to look into those!
Sometimes flying safe takes a back seat to arriving safe.
I've had the pleasure and honour of working with Story Musgrave - he is a remarkable man in many aspects which most people are not aware of. His other accomplishments include trauma surgeon and test pilot for NASA's T-38 chase plane fleet, in addition to designing all of the tooling and procedures for the first repair of the Hubble telescope (and actually carrying out the three of the five repair spacewalks). He is the only astronaut to ever have flown on all five shuttles and he was a personal friend of Wernher von Braun.
Riding back to Earth in the trunk, that would have been something!
I was thinking of Story Musgrave while you were talking about that and then you mentioned him :-)
Scott,
If there was ever Best episode ever on your channel. This would be the best episode! Particularly because of the closing comments. “Surfing” lol. Love it!
Dang, that new intro is as lit as the SRBs
Best video of the YEAR SCOTT!!!! THIS IS MORE LIKE IT. CAN WE PLEASE HAVE MORE CONTINGENCY PLAN CONTENT IN THE FUTURE THANKS!!
Has anyone seen my dirty laundry?
Anyone?
C'mon guys, where did you hide it?
Outside?
On Christmas Day 1993, I was a last-minute extra on a flight out of Sarajevo to Zagreb on a Skylink IL-76. All the troop seats were taken up by soldiers heading home on leave, so I and the Army Command Sergeant-Major sat side-by-side on the floor of the plane with our backs against a plastic-wrapped pallet of kit-bags and flew out that way, hanging onto the cargo rails and admiring the decorative duct-tape patches over the bullet holes in the fuselage. I thought that was a pretty badass way to travel until I read about Story Musgrave's standing landing on the freaking space shuttle a few years later. I tip my kevlar brain-bucket to you, sir.
(P.S. Love the gunstar on your shelf, Scott! Keep up the great work.)
I think we need a *robot like TARS* for these tasks
yep
With sense of humor set to 100% and honesty set to 90?
And a spaceship where you only need a big rocket to get into orbit the first time you use it. (Not to mention Einsteins pseudoscience.)
And an emergency carbon-carbon foam spray to fill damaged tiles or protect the innards of the wings.
@@avramitra the other way round? 90/100 Open the door ...No ...Open the door! ...Ok ok Just a old pal HAL joke!
I had the pleasure of meeting Story. He attended my father’s high school (St. Marks in MA). He was speaking at their 25th reunion IIRC
No, letting Columbia reenter without a contingency EVA was crazy.
Or even an inspection.
There had been a previous incident where a different shuttle (Atlantis, I think?) survived re-entry with several damaged tiles and a couple missing tiles, so I think by that point the mission controllers had simply become too comfortable with the Shuttle's _apparent_ durability.
@@deusexaethera You're right, it was Atlantis. And it suffered such extreme damage to the heat shield that the crew were sure they were going to die. There were over 700 damaged tiles and one completely missing tile. The only reason Atlantis survived was because the missing tile happened to be covering a thick steel plate for the L band antenna. If it weren't for that plate it's possible Atlantis would've burned up on reentry.
@@AngryRockMan: Yes, I am aware of the details. My point is, after seeing a Shuttle survive reentry with such severe damage, it seems entirely plausible that even well-informed professionals would become confident in the Shuttle's durability -- unfortunately, too confident.
Nevermind the fact they could have rushed preparations and sent up Discovery (i believe it was that one) up to rescue the astronauts before Columbia ran out of supplies.
But rolling the dice with their lives was cheaper.
It's amazing how similar the space shuttle was to old wood-and-cloth aircraft.
Story Musgrave is one of my favorite astronauts. He's a modern-day Renaissance Man. He's done a little bit of everything it seems.
He and John Young are two of my very favourites from the (largely) pre-ISS days :)
@earthly firefly5 I don't follow. How does your quote apply to Mr. Musgrave's career?
@earthly firefly5 Why do you think badly of him? Why would I be a liar for admiring him? Your assertions make no sense to me. Every time I've seen Story Musgrave make a presentation or give an interview, he seems like a genuine and honest guy. I see no evidence to the contrary.
2:19 80% nitrogen 😌
Whoops.
Yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who makes stupid mistakes :D
It’s 78% nitrogen, and 21 % oxygen with 1% other gasses
@@rbharms1 True on earth. I think they probably didn't bother to add 1% argon to the mix... But CO2 and probably CH4 were added in more than ample quantity to the shuttles atmosphere by the astronauts themselfes...
Ohhh ok. Petty sure 80% oxygen at sea level atmosphere would be bad
@5:00 Stephen Robinson was my Aerodynamics Professor at UC Davis 😍 what an amazing individual
Nice presentation Scott. The story about Storey was great!
I like that something good game from your laptop being stolen, it's cool that you switch up the intro more frequently now. Keep up the good work
I like the one with the handheld X-wing the best, honestly.
Every single video you have made and I've watched and that is a lot, has been interesting and educational, including this one. Thanks!
I can just imagine the austronauts pulling over in space, putting on their spacesuits, and replacing a flat tire on the landing gear with the spare as if the shuttle is the family car xD
Story Musgrave is one of the most amazing human beings who ever lived. He dropped out of high school and joined the Marines, where he got his GED. He earned *6* academic degrees: a B.S. in mathematics and statistics, an M.B.A. in operations analysis and computer programming, a B.A. in chemistry, an M.D., an M.S. in physiology and biophysics, a M.A. in literature. He flew 6 times into space, on all 5 space shuttles, repaired the Hubble, has 17,000 hours in 160 different aircraft, over 800 free fall parachute jumps, has written or been listed as a co-author of twenty five scientific papers. He was a trauma surgeon, astronaut, professor, scientist and father to 7 children. His life was marked by great tragedy: he came from "an extraordinarily dysfunctional family, full of abuse and alcoholism." His parents, brother and grandfather all committed suicide, and another brother died in the military. He is the most brilliant and inspirational person I've ever met.
Jim Dawdy sounds like Scott needs to do a video about him.
Has anyone of you ever wondered how you would perform CPR in microgravity?
Don Jones where’s the link?
@@zUnderscore Oops, sorry. Added in edit.
Fucketh Thou - Could happen in response to being electrocuted? But as you say I imagine they would skip CPR and probably have a defib or two up there anyway
@Fucketh Thou Not so simple. You'll be interested in the first response above, it covers that and more.
@@DaAtheniatron CPR has to be started while someone gets the defib. The defib and more is covered in the first comment above.
Woah the clouds at 5:02 are so cool!!!
Starship v1 is stacked!!!
Learning something new every episode!!!
My first thought was "will it involve jumper cables?"
Like Scott's vid on the Lunar Module.
There were jumper cables used in some satellite repairs.
One thing not mentioned about Musgrave's case is that that flight deck isn't exactly spacious. The total standing room from floor to ceiling is maybe exactly 6'4" is you're standing directly under the dorsal windows on the roof. Anywhere else and you'd likely have to be stood bending over at high-G and during landing.
You want me to fill a hole on the heat shield with ice..... and I thought my manager comes out with some whacky ideas!!
The Chinese have successfully used wooden ablative heat shields. Just keep some stock around, and whittle a patch if you happen to need one.
@@moconnell663 can only imagine their instructions for emergency planning lol
ifell3 China has enough people to consider death an acceptable plan. Just like old NASA. After Apollo 1 killed the crew, the other astronauts saved the program by publicly emphasizing their willingness to die.
ice or nothing. Take it or leave it
Fantastic picture and sound quality... and great presentation as usual !
Love the shuttle intro
Thank you very much for doing these videos.
2:17 80% nitrogen 20% oxygen, of course :)
Maybe not.
What are you people on about? It's 20% oxygen, 80% nitrogen. The original comment is right.
He clearly says 80% oxygen.
Really?
@@sageminentjunky5197 it's clearly a mistake. 80% oxygen at sea level pressure is actually toxic.
"If EVA preparation time is critical to crew safety, a minimum of 2.5 hours unbroken prebreathe with > 95% oxygen is recommended at a sin pressure above 12.5 psi prior to any cabin or airlock pressure below 8 psi. The frc surgeon shall be consulted for a recommended prebreathe protocol for any contingency EVA"
Great Story Musgrave tale of daring do. I had the opportunity to hear F. Story Musgrave at a small speaking event at his old alma mater, the University of Kentucky. He described the reentry event and showed some very interesting pictures he had taken of the plasma flowing over the orbiter during reentry, but he didn't make it sound nearly as heroic. Real heroes don't brag about their heroic exploits.
"Get out and fix something!" - Stephen Cox
What I love is the more and more you learn about NASA the more and more you realize just how new space flight still is and how many different ways we still have to Jerry rig some very important things
Could you do a video about Water Plasma Propulsion? This seems interesting!
Being on the underside of the Space Shuttle out in LEO looks absolutely terrifying to me, I mean EVAs already are panic inducing to watch when they are pretty close to the front but man I can't imagine what it's like to be on the underside. Then again I have a crippling fear of heights and can't even be on a ladder and look up so that might have something to do with it.
2:16: 80% Oxygen or 80% Nitrogen?
Bill Lye 80% Nitrogen 20% oxygen
80% oxygen at 1 bar would mess you up... that is a ppO2 of .8. Using guidelines from SCUBA diving you can only tolerate that for 450 minutes (7.5 hours) in a 24 hour period. That is why high O2 concentration is normally used at lower pressure.
@@BrianRossman
Hyperbaric chambers?
We moved around a lot when I was a kid, and I rode in the back of plenty of U-Haul trucks driven by my crazy-ass mom. If I can handle that, I don't think shuttle reentry in the cargo bay is going to be a problem.
I love you mom.
I've heard that Russian safety protocols for space walks were a lot more relaxed than US protocols. That might make an interesting video as well sir.
They’re also not documented
@@scottmanley - Some wild stuff outside of the Mir station is what I've heard. Wish I had some good sources for you.
@@scottmanley They may be written down somewhere....just not sure what the Russian equivalent of "FOIA" is... :p
"If you see a Space Bear, pour him a Vodka"
As an aircraft mechanic it is pretty funny to see things similar to my job but just done in space. Knowing how frustrating it can be on earth I can imagine the challenge in a suit in space!
Honestly this just makes me question why they removed the MMUs
Yeah... I mean, sure, I guess they were difficult/risky to use, but apparently so were a lot of these contingency plans...
@@solarshado if on takeoff there was seen a large object striking the front/underside of the wing, I'd take an MMU out untethered. it's that or tumble and burn in the atmosphere.
i was wondering the whole time if using an mmu to deorbit the shuttle was a possible contingency if the shuttle thrusters ran out of propellant.
@edstirling Would they really have enough delta-v? I mean they were meant to move (relatively) low-mass astronauts back and forth around the shuttle, not slow the shuttle enough for a safe(ish) reentry.
7:48 the comically slow zoom-in on the tiny gap between the control surfaces as Scott struggles to mask the incredulity in his voice is just perfect
Columbia alternate ending
The Columbia disaster was almost as idiotic as Challenger.
Not really as both disasters are a case of the government saying to go on which caused the bad circumstances of both disasters to get worse
in the early shuttle missions, they tested repairing tiles. On networks that covered on morning shows, they would go into a fair amount of detail explaining the process and showed this device that looked like a vacuum cleaner that oozed some type of epoxy..(as well as when it came back they would talk about tiles that fell off) . The good ol days !
Oh wow, i caught one early for once, this is gonna be great i can tell!
Thank you for showing some love to us Sandians!!
Would be very cool to have a VR game to play these kinds of missions.
As always, awesome, informative and entertaining videos!
I’ve met Musgrave, definitely a unique guy.
Very interesting segment, Scott. As always, thanks much for sharing.
Steve
What happened to the adhoc beatbox intro? Bring it back!
Settle down, Dan. You're in no position to be making demands. Besides, if you haven't noticed, they are all in a random rotation.
61 year old surfing a flying brick while filming plasma streams on re-entry. You Sir have my respect!
Still think the shuttle was great craft. Just needed liquid boosters instead of the solid rockets. To much vibrations and not safe. The boosters caused the challeger disaster. And the vibrations did not help with the foam coming loose on Columbia either. Wish we could have put two falcon 9 ,s to boost the shuttle up. Would have been epic.
Liquid-fuel engines are not much smoother than solid-fuel engines during liftoff. You can adjust the throttle setting a little bit on liquid-fuel engines to try to counteract resonant vibrations, but ultimately you're going to need most if not all of the engines' thrust to get into orbit, so your range of throttle adjustment is very minimal.
Fun fact: there were plans for liquid fuel boosters and a ejectable crew deck on the Shuttle, but they were too expensive.
This is a brilliant channel.
Actually, the closed payload bay doors during reentry were critical not because of the air dynamic but structural integrity.
Luiz Serravalle Well, they could be worse. Imagine landing a 3-masted sailing ship with all sails deployed at the worst possible angles...
Of course, a fully open door could ruin the aerodynamics as well, but NASA worried mostly about the latch mechanism because the payload bay doors were critical parts of the structure during reentry and landing.
So the unlucky astronaut gets to ride in the back of the Space Station Wagon. [Thumbs UP!]
Also, Nice Sandia Labs tee-shirt! I'm a Los Alamos boy myself. Props for New Mexico.
Story Musgrave is a steely-eyed missile-man!
We need a Story Kerman in KSP!
That was a great ending story. I enjoyed this video very much.
2:18 80% nitrogen, not oxygen
Nice thunderbird you got there, Scott! Gave me a chuckle when in noticed it halfway through :)
Too bad NASA didnt let Columbia be inspected from ground or space. Many engineers suspected the orbiter was damaged. They gambled with their astronauts lives and lost.
Money... The shuttle was just too expensive from the start. With the wrong men on the wrong positions...
I love your videos, Scott, thanks for being so entertaining while you educate.