Baldwin vs Kimball: Painfully Average (but good) Budget Friendly Pianos
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- Опубликовано: 31 дек 2019
- Today I compare two pianos, as usual, with an interesting twist - they both are commonly found in the used market and priced at what you would pay for a mid level keyboard. The Baldwin was once used extensively, almost exclusively, in fact, in practice rooms in conservatories across the USA, and both it and the Kimball are now a budget friendly entry into the piano world.
Recorded at DC Pianos in Berkeley, California 
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I'm a piano historian, but also a piano tuner-technician who worked for a Baldwin dealer for 8 years back in the 1970s. I always loved working on the Baldwin Hamilton studio piano. It's solid, easy to work on, holds a tune a long time, the dynamics are pretty darn good, and the action is quite responsive. You are right about this being the most popular piano found in churches, music school practice rooms, and among piano teachers. For quality and affordability, the Baldwin Hamilton was hard to beat. In terms of furniture style, customers tended to go for Baldwin's console and even spinet pianos, though we always tried to get them to see past the furniture aspect to the musical instrument. I never recommended a spinet of any brand, but if the furniture aspect was that important, I'd recommend a Baldwin Acrosonic console, which, like the Hamilton, holds a tune incredibly well, one of the best, thanks to the multi-layered 19-ply Baldwin pinblock, which was patented. Nevertheless, the Hamilton, which also had the 19-ply patented pinblock, was the better instrument-longer strings and full-size action, very similar to the old uprights. If a customer didn't have the space or budget for a grand piano, and didn't want a rebuilt higher-quality vintage upright piano, the Baldwin Hamilton was the best choice. I'm not knocking the Kimball. Historically speaking, the Baldwin and Kimball piano companies each were hugely important in American piano history. I've written about both companies in my book, _The Piano in America, 1890-1940_.
@Craig Roell thank you for your expertise and detailed information. Very helpful and appreciated. Have a happy day 🤸❣️
@@dr.michelleevamorholt1538 My pleasure! Thank you.
@@craigroell1612 Do you recommend the Hamilton series as the "best" Baldwin? Thank you and have a happy day 🤸❣️
Craig Roell,
Please be careful when using links, one of you links was a non-approved link.
@@ThePianoforever Apologies, James. I was trying to plug your excellent series on finding the greatest upright piano. I admire your insights, luv your passion, and respect your integrity.
I'm a tuner. The Baldwin uprights are a good piano. They hold a tune and sound nice. Good budget friendly piano.
Also a tuner. Those Hamilton's are good solid pianos.
Yes those Baldwin or Hamilton by Baldwin were really good uprights.
Just not true. I found and bought many of these pianos for $100 -$300 or free. I move them myself. The prices of pianos have really dropped. Many younger people don’t buy pianos.
@@thomaslotito380 thank you for your expertise and comments... very helpful. Have a happy day 🤸❣️
Michelle Eva Morholt you’re welcome. I’m in NJ, I saw a bunch of free Baldwins on FB Market place. Check near you.
I grew up on that exact Baldwin Hamilton. Ah, memories!
stealthstamper was it good?
@@rooney1002 I grew up I one too and have played thousands of hours on one similar. It is a decent piano I suppose, but the one I played on had a pretty shallow action and it sort of had a muffled like sound. But overall it is a solid piano.
I like your videos! I often return to your website to hear the tone of quite a few older, and more obscure rare pianos.
Nice review James, Happy New Year to you, and thanks for putting these out, I've learned so much about pianofortes from them.
Happy New Year! Both pianos sound like they would be adequate in a smaller space. They weren’t exactly “cheap” to buy when new. Great playing! Thanks!
Wishing you a happy peaceful profitable, and healthy New year James: it`s been a pleasure and a joy to watch your Vlogs; over the past year.
(it all came about by chance serendipity and a fluke, you may blame Todd Rundgren if you like.) I had in my head the idea of a piece of Todds music re-imagined upon a Marimba, i wanted a reminder of the sound and range of a Marimba, typed it in RUclips, and yours was the first off the Block, Top of the list, and actually far more helpful (thank you James) than i had been imagining, the reason for this was the Vlog was your "Marimba vs. Xylophone vs. Vibraphone vs. Glockenspiel .... " and this put the idea in my head of using all these instruments to arrange the Rundgren piece, well i could not find the sheet music published anywhere your country or mine, so i did it in my head, and that is as far as i have got, mind the sustain on the Vibes has been very helpful !
should you care to listen to the original, Todd Rundgren: Dont you ever learn. (it`s practically vintage, older than us all.)
With Much appreciation, Kind regards Simon.
Happy new year! Nice set of pianos although the baldwin wins. Nice sound, just a piano for some old good blues or so. Thank you for sharing.
I agree with you about prefering the Baldwin over the Kimball as far as sound and action. My 1973 Baldwin has amazing tone and action
Thank you for this video. I had the same Baldwin, except mine had front sound vents,
after high school. The sound brings back memories of my mom and I playing duets on it all the time. We bought it brand new in 1977 for, I believe, $3000.
3000 bucks, god damn, pianos are expensive
Happy New Year 🍻
Thank you for this expert review.
Good ole Baldwin 243, I’ve had plenty of these in my shop. Good bomb proof pianos.
Happy new year James. Would love to know your opinion of my budget piano - Yamaha B1. Love the videos.
happy new year.
If you ever get a chance to play a Kimball Classic Studio from the late 80s I'd like to hear a review. Few were made and I had one and loved playing it.
It was definitely louder. Thank you so much for this review! : )
I remember Baldwins and Kimballs well from my formative years, and later my practice room years. You've captured really well the hard-to-describe feeling I also have about Kimballs being tough to control on the quiet end vs. Baldwins, especially if you're practicing on an upright to perform on a grand. More control means more expressive potential. I was hoping you were going to say what exact price range both pianos were in. Other than that, excellent review.
Not sure what DC is charging, but I've been shopping for a Hamilton around Berkeley and the classifieds have some from the 1980s averaging around $600. I think sticker price at a store is going to be more like a couple grand, but a store will also refurbish them and provide a warranty. (I think DC throws in moving and tuning too.)
Happy New Year, James! All the best to you and your family! I have no doubt that you are correct about the Baldwin being the better piano, but to my ear, I preferred the bright sound of the Kimball, especially at the top end. The treble on the Baldwin sounded a bit dead to me, esp. that G-sharp. The Kimball also had a nice resonance to it. I wonder if the three vertical "slits" in the front of the Kimball are what made it seem both brighter and louder. If you ever come across a Heintzman piano, a popular Canadian-made piano in its day, I'd love to see your review of it. We had one in my family home until I was about 8 years old and it was the first piano I ever played (well, messed around on).
To my ear the mellower tone makes the Baldwin sound more like a grand. I suppose that can be good or bad depending on preference & what kind of music you're making.
I'm not a tuner but my guess is that the tone difference is mostly due to different action. But a tuner can voice the piano for the room... the Baldwin hammers can be made brighter with lacquer and the Kimball could be made mellower by fluffing the felt.
I'm sure having a concrete wall behind the piano doesn't help.
Funnily enough, what the first thing was that I saw that made me love those pianos was the keyboard cover. Do like the sound too though!
I wonder if the Kimball is brighter because the felt hammers have been banged on a lot more. I do love the way the Baldwin opens up!
The church I attended growing up had a Baldwin-Hamilton just like the one in this video. It was a good sounding piano but the action was a little too heavy. I believe they are still using it today.
the kimball takes the cake on this one. one of their more affordable pianos and still sounds great for it being a pretty typical piano. obviously kimball made high end grands and uprights too, which sound even better, but even run of the mill kimballs have a great sound, easy to tune, and affordable.
Que hermoso tocas el piano!como me gustaría que más gente viera la maravilla que hace el piano en el alma!
Me.encanta.escuchar el.piano
PS, you're not too critical. You've given an excellent reviews. I like how you've educated yourself on why piano keys stick and how to fix them. I encourage piano players to learn about why piano keys stick. Good job 👍
My grandparents had a Kimball Spinet probably from the 1930s with ivory keys and it sounded great. When I was 13 (in 1970) my parents bought me a new Kimball Console which is what I learned to play on. I loved that piano :) Overall I prefer the sound of a Yamaha Grand which is bright. The Kimball has a bit of that too which is probably why I liked it.
I looked at one of these Baldwins back when I was in college and I had no money. I knew Baldwin was a good name and I could afford it. The piano salesman was already to sell it to me. I ended up not buying it and spent a little more money on an old Cable Nelson grand in an art case. I made the right choice. My old Cable Nelson will never be valuable but it was well made, sounds great, looks beautiful in my home and is a piece of Americana from the golden age of pianos. My piano tech always says "they don't make them like this anymore."
i enjoyed listening to this
the baldwin sounds like the pain the artist C418 used for his Minecraft soundtracks
Thank you.
Sound-wise.... I think they are about the same. Both are lovely pianos!
I like the Baldwin better, but both are okay. If the Baldwin was voiced or had new hammers and was in proper tune, it would be substantially better.
Clair de Lune beautifully played.
I picked up a Kimball 4245 artist console with a 84 Louisiana world exposition badge on the inside of it. Do you know the significance of this badge 🤔
I'd like to hear something contrapuntal on these; I think contrapuntal stuff would sound better on the Kimball.
I think the vents on the Kimball are kind of cool. These sound like a lot of pianos in people's homes or in churches in the 1970s. These sound like nostalgic pianos to me. I think the Baldwin wins out but the Kimball's somewhat brighter.
Benjamin, I had a really nice Baldwin 6000 from the late 1980's and it sounded wonderful. It also had very nice vents on the front as well. We had to sell it when we were getting ready for the move to Tennessee.
@@ThePianoforever Happy New year James. Is the Baldwin 6000 their 52 inch model? I've played a lot of Hamilton studio pianos. I think they sound much better than the baby grands.
yes.. I have a Kimball and I like it's brighter tone, but it is not very soft playing P. It is my very first piano and I just started taking piano lessons as an older adult. I felt that the Baldwin sounded better this go around.
My parents bought a Kimball console for me in 1970 to start lessons on at age 12. I recall they were sold on the furniture aspect of the piano. (Neither were musically inclined and dad, a house painter, loved good wood.) I remember the piano sounding better than the one played here, and looking better, too, with a deep pecan finish and nice carved edges to the lid. Bless my parents for getting me started in music. I’m now playing a 1927 Steinway model L. Sounds worlds better than either of these pianos. 😁
Beautiful playing! Personally, I definitely prefer the Kimball. Hamiltons always sound out of tune, even when they are in tune, perhaps because of bad scaling? I also struggle to play them because the keys are short and my fingers are always running into the fallboard. I haven't noticed that on Kimballs. The tone of the Kimball is thin but I think it is more resonant, and better in the high treble and bass. Just my opinion. Thank you for the video, as always, and happy new year!
The Hamiltons always sound like that? I thought tuning a piano was one size fits all. The mid to lower/upper part of the Baldwin desperately needed tuning on about 1/4 of the notes. The Kimball sounded really sweet, though I must agree with James, it was a bit sparkly. Were there sliding covers for the vents? That would have helped cut the brightness a tad.
Great piano playing, as always, James, and Happy New Year.
@@cannedmusic While it's true that both pianos needed some tuning, no amount of tuning can correct for the factors that make a concert grand, for example, sound "better" than a studio upright. Due to physical factors, the bass and high treble strings on small pianos are actually out of tune with themselves. I've played multiple Hamiltons and Kimballs and I can testify that the Hamiltons are always a little strange-sounding. Cheers!
@@rowanbelt3612 true.
Bravo James 👏 is this a series we can all look forward to???? Painfully average (but good) Budget Friendly Pianos... I'll definitely be turned in regardless but golly that series would be helpful to me personally. Thanks for all you do and to your viewers for appreciating and sharing beauty. Have a happy day 🤸❣️
I am always on the hunt for interesting pianos of all price ranges.
New year?
If you have an opportunity, I’d love to see a review of the new Yamaha P-515 digital piano and how if compares to an acoustic.
I found a free Baldwin piano on Facebook market place I have wanted to start playing and was wondering if anyone who has had experience with these could tell me if it’s worth getting the free Baldwin
James,
Fooled again.
Although I defer to your vast knowledge and skills, I thought the upper range on the Kimball toward the end of the piece had a more sustaining tone than the Baldwin which seemed to lack the resonance of the Kimball on the high notes..
Happy New Year and health to you and your family,
Cheers,
Rik Spector
@@davidalarconquinones87 Thanks, David Happy New Year
So what would you pick for all? Classic, gospel, jazz rag, time, boogie woogie, and hymns.
Yamaha or Bechstein.
I understand that Baldwin Hamilton is a workhorse, and a great budget upright. How about it compare to Kimball's LaPetite Baby Grand piano? Always see comment to go with grand/baby grand over upright, but I have seen some posts from tuning technicians that LaPetite from Kimball is horrible to stay tuned. Here are the two units I'm considering to purchase, which one would be better for my first piano for my kid? Baldwin Hamilton Upright $1000 -> ibb.co/jwC3f8K
Kimball LaPetite Baby Grand $600 -> ibb.co/RQCD5dX
The Baldwin would be the way to go for sure, but do plan on a few things needing adjustment on a 30 year old piano. The Baldwin in the picture was a workhorse for decades in the music industry and that one looks worth all of a $1,000.00 for sure. I would look at the hammers to make sure it wasn't played to death, but it does not look like it was.
The bass is superior on the Baldwin Hamilton upright, but the Kimball (to my surprise, given my experience of that make) has a better treble range than the Baldwin does. Between those two, I would go for the Kimball, although a good bass range is too important to me to ignore in choosing a piano. A Knabe upright of the 1970s (when Knabe was still in Rochester, N.Y.) would be a better choice than either of the two pianos that you are demonstrating here.
Yeah, the touch is an important matter, as important, really, as the basic sound. However, as to sound, the Kimball not only has a sweeter, brighter sound in the treble, it also seems to resonate longer than the quick fade in the higher treble on the Baldwin Hamilton. As for me, I would not buy either of these pianos. It is better to go for a quality German upright, which may cost more but also could suffice for one's entire musical lifetime, from beginner to skilled adult.
Pianos manufactured in East Rochester were in my opinion, only one step under Bosendorfer. I'm serious (and from Rochester).
Thank you for this review. I grew up practicing on a Kimball, years later I bought a Baldwin. I prefer the Kimball. I suppose people have different ears for what they like :)
Hi , are these pianos still being manufactured...... Could u please give an idea about the prices.....
Only on the used market.
Baldwin superior to the tin pan Kimball.
Thank you for you great videos! My recent search for a “perfect” piano has led me to the following three pianos. Which one do you think is best? 1: Hamburg Steinway B. 2: Shigeru-Kauai 7’. 3: Fazioli 7’. I am leaning toward the Shigeru because the action seemed especially responsive, but the Steinway might have slightly richer tone. While all pianos are unique, just wondered what you would lean toward??
Go with whatever you prefer.
You do you. You like the action on the Kawai? Go for it. No one who matters will criticize your decision.
when you say budget friendly around what price point is that?
ball park not exact
I think these pianos might sell in the $1,000.00, give or take.
I'm no historian, but I remember hearing repeatedly that the Kimball was an excellent quality piece of furniture.
Hi!
It's rag time!
Is a amazing piano.
Just listening to the video sound on my computer speakers, I prefer the sound of the Kimball. The Baldwin sounds a bit more plinky to me. Interesting video, thanks!
I bought my son a Yamaha E463 for Christmas last year and he has just taken off on the keyboard. Over the summer I was given a Wurlitzer piano. I had it tuned up and checked. It's about a 1975 oak piano, round legs. The tuner said it was probably about $4500 when new. Anyway the repairman was amazed how well my son played (less than a year)...this guy is about 75....just set up Carrie Underwood's pianist for local concert.... he said my son should move up to an upright console(?) in a year or so, ie Yamaha U1 and then a grand. I don't have the money for a grand. Would I be better of just buying a U1 or a nice Kawai electronic keyboard? My son started on drums around 6, played clarinet for a year in school and stepped up to alto sax and actually played at the Rose Bowl Parade today in Ca. with the school band. He loves classical type pieces and keyboard tone and yes he can play most of Clare de Lune and others...thanks for any info.
What is your budget, because I know of some grands you can get for good prices.
@@rubiksmaster301 I was thinking of 5-8000 at the most. I figure if my son gets real good, he can buy his own down the road.
@@solodad001 Go to places like facebook messenger and craigslist, you can find amazing baby grand pianos for around that price range. My baby grand costed 250 dollars, but that one was hard to find.
Grand pianos are also way better than uprights (imo) because of their action and usually have a better sound.
@@rubiksmaster301 Thank you for the info. I thought I did well getting a free piano, minus the cost of a tune and few bucks for an extra good back to lift the thing. 250 is a steal.
Anyone has a Belarus piano ? 🙃😁
4:03
As a Canadian I revel in all the great old instruments made here long ago.An old Hientzman will blow away most American pianos on sound and tone.Sad that they are getting thrown away in favor for low quality keyboards.
Make 2020 Great
I grew up playing a Baldwin Piano but I have to confess, the Kimbell sounds better. The Baldwin sounds rather hollow to these ears.
The best of everything to you and yours in the coming year 2020 and keep up the good work.
A church asked me what was the best upright they could buy (they had a Wurlitzer whose pin block was toast). I told them Baldwin Hamilton as they were made extra sturdy for schools, etc. They went and bought one from the 1980s and I wish I had been there to discourage them. It must have come from some school that beat it pretty hard. It goes out of tune easily and it does not sound good. It's not just the brand, its the condition. Beat pianos should be sent to piano heaven.