What I've found is that those little bits of metal left behind when pulling the straps off can usually be flattened enough by simply tapping them with the side of the pliers. The metal is soft and they easily mash down flat.
@@JulianIlett That would be useful for removing larger remmnants of metal, but would still leave some sharp bits so tapping the sharp bits down with the metal pliers would still be useful. They're light enough so they're not likely to cause damage to the battery but they're solid enough to mash the small points down. I use the flat part of my pliers, where the joint is. That seems to work okay.
While this product is expensive, I really love the idea of these types of systems. Where you can add cells easily and put it together without any soldering. Because I really hate trying to solder something on top of an 18650, you need a really high power soldering iron and I am always worried about the heat getting into the cell during the process. Plus if you ever have a problem you have to desolder and those self made packs usually look like a mess. I like the idea of these packing system where it uses bolts and screws etc. This makes it easier to put together, plus it makes it easier to replace and also means you don't have to worry about damaging the cell with heat from a soldering iron. But my most favourite and easy way so far are these empty power banks that you can buy from China, all you have to do is put 8 18650's inside and the system has built in balancing and charging etc and USB ports for output. I use this power bank to power the light in my room, it can run my room light for around 30 hours straight before it runs out. It usually lasts around 5 nights until I have to recharge it. That's a decent enough time for me that I don't consider it impractical. It then charges on a high power USB socket from my inverter, generally it takes around 10 hours to charge. So basically a full day if you get it on there very early. Now the above system in your video though is superior to those 8x18650 power banks that I mentioned in one way, with the system in your video it's possibly to make a large power banks. Such as easily 20+ cells. Meaning you can easily put together a 200+ watt hour system. AMD now make new APU's (CPU+GPU system) which only use a max of 35w in load. Thus it's more like 20w in regular use on average, combined with other components you need for the computer it's possible to put together a reasonably competent computer that only uses a max of 55w at load (or more like 40w on average overall). With such a system you would use those DC-DC CPU power supplies, this connects to the 24 pin socket on the motherboard and has the CPU power connector also. You can get small ones of these with 120w capabilities and they are highly efficient, this would be perfect for the computer in question. Then you just connect the other side of that DC-DC power supply to the lithium battery pack. This is my goal, to build this system. I probably won't buy the expensive Panasonic high capacity cells (even though they are the best). But I will settle on more common cells with capacities around 2500mAh. And basically all you have to do is get around 48 of these batteries and build the battery pack. This should give you around a 444 watt hour battery, which in theory could run this computer for around 11 hours before needing recharging. But it's safer to assume 10 hours when taking into conversions and inefficiencies. That's still a good run time. Of a day time you would connect it just to the output wires from your charge controller, and let the remainder solar power charge the battery pack up. Then of a night time flick a switch over for the computer to be powered by the battery pack. I like the idea of this. There is only one power conversion done in this system and the conversions are very close to each other in voltage anyway and it's DC-DC. Yet people who run their computer from an inverter are doing crazy conversions and losses, first their battery is converted from around 12v to 240v (or whatever your country uses), then that is plugged into a computer power supply which then takes that 240v and converts it back down to 12v. Thus you are converting it up and down hugely twice and also going from DC to AC and AC back to DC. Expecting power losses of up to 30-40% in such a setup is typical of this poor setup. That's why going with a DC-DC system and forgetting high voltage AC is the way to go with powering your computer. This system is my goal, if I ever have enough spare time to make it I will upload it to my other youtube channel.
Given that there is no real length tolerance I'd suggest just cutting the tab ends inside the contact diameter and leaving the welds/tabs in place. Rolling them off sardine-can fashion has the potential to open the cell if the weld comes away with the tab.
It's definitely out of India. They have had an American distributor, maybe Micah Toll. Looking at the Forum it is not very active. I have the original kit. There were a lot of criticisms. I'm pretty sure the springs are better now, and they are using a bolt to retain compression. Neal Saiki had a battery system going back to at least 2012, The NTS thing. Never went anywhere, but it was part of an ebike crowdfunding deal. I think the Chinese have developed robotic spot welders, along the way, so churning out modules is not a very big deal. No one is willing to say that any compression system is comparable to a spot weld. Basically with cheaper cells and robot welding, markets like ebikes can get batteries at 1/4 the cost of five years ago. The original Sondors bike, with all the US controversy, had a very low cost battery. Jehu Garcia has promoted some sort of compression system. What's the future? People in the US Ebike community never embraced Vruzend. I wish they would just sell shrink wrapped modules, 5 or 8 or 10 cells in series, spot welded. I'd put XT60 s on the end.
I evaluated the Vruzend stuff a couple years ago and determined that the plastic friction was not a suitable retainer. Plus, they were expensive, comparatively. It's good to see that they came around and put barrel bolts on them. Perhaps there will be fewer fires now, eh? =:-0
Expensive solution and for big $ I'm surprised inside sprung contact of end pieces doesn't have a small tripod of gold-plated bumps to ensure good low-heat conduction. These may be fire risk above ~2 amps and not to be used under vibration.
95% of my costs go on fittings and hardware and 5% on the cells. battery packs and cells are cheap as chips shops practically give them away when they have been sitting around for 12 months or more. Sadly the BMS runs the packs down to 0v over a long time some packs are good as new after 2 years sitting some are compleatly dead. The date on that wickes pack is week 44 2015
Be careful pulling the nickel strips off the battery negative, the metal on the battery is only thin, I pulled one once and it made a hole in the cell and the cell vented.
Hello Julian. Sliding your battery ends on a flat sheet of sandpaper will do nicely to remove the spot welds. Greetings from Toronto, Canada. Love your Assembly Language - PIC Microcontroller videos too!
Perfect for making a battery back for a portable Bluetooth speaker. Shame I can't buy less than a quarter kit. I only need 24v max, unless I build a much longer lasting pack.
Great video! Very useful kit and review. I will be using these a lot! Thanks! Aha, as others have pointed out, these are VERY expensive. Over a dollar per battery. As others have also pointed out, the Chinese should be solving this problem very soon! ;-)
Thank you Julian, perfectly timed! I am very interested in this - but this arrangement is not very space-saving if you have 3 cells you want to combine. Still, I might be able to live with the empty fourth quadrant and use it for battery management/charging or a lighting module somehow.
@@JulianIlett Thank you for replying! That makes sense of course. I am (loosely so far) planning a 3s1p configuration with the three side by side or 2 on the bottom and 1 on top. Anything else I found has either flimsy connectors or is a large but decent 2x2 arrangement which I could use with a "dummy" battery. While not ideal, this Vruzend one still looks better than anything I have found before!
Julian, when my father was in school (college) the powers that be changed the direction of flow of the electrons from positive (+) to neg. (-) and back again, I think it's changed a few times. Does anyone know for certain, which way they flow, or don't, lol? About seventy or eighty years ago....
Haha, I've been told they move from negative to positive at about walking pace, it's just easier to think about it backwards, apparently, hope this helps... BTW I love the idea of the 'powers that be' telling each and every electron in each and every circuit to turn around and go back around the other way, not just once but several times...just think of the logistics🙄
Electrons are negatively charged and are attracted to positive (opposites attract, alike repel) so electron flow is always from negative to positive. Conventional current is said to flow in the opposite direction just to confuse everyone.
@@erlendse makes sense, I think they need a hole to 'fall' into to keep shuffling forward? I saw a video recently by Steve Mould, he was vibrating small steel ball bearings to illustrate grain boundaries in metals, it made me think of atoms and lattices If you haven't seen his videos then please check them out
There are two different ways of thinking and talking about current flow -- so-called "conventional" current which goes from positive to negative, and electron current which goes from negative to positive. It's possible that which one is more prevalent in textbooks has changed over time. But nobody has ever said that electrons flow from positive to negative. Not even Scotty can change the laws of physics!
The batteries were welded in series you cut them apart and put them back in series? When you tighten the barrel bolt hook a meter to the battery bolts and snug it just past when you have voltage so to not over tighten them.
Definitely Interesting, not really my cup of tea, but excellent for a temporary pack! Heck, you can pry it all apart and replace the cells when they fail, that's a big plus once the fuss of assembling all those bolts and tabs is done :) pretty neat.
Make sure you Vaseline the sides of the batteries where they insert into carriers. The bigger the pack the more difficult alignment becomes. Trust me tried and tested with lube.
@@JulianIlett When you assemble packs, which no doubts you'll bank together, I found that small packs need to be squared quite accurately else the dovetail/connecting tabs struggle to line up, hence the lube helps contact corrosion and insertion.
I managed to harvest 43 cells (6 of the 3 cell batteries and 5 of the 5 cell type as shown here and also a couple of £30 pillar drills, bonus! ) in a mad dash around Kent/South London a few weeks back... Thanks for the tip! I have bought some generic ebay crappy plastic snap together battery holders to make a low capacity e-bike battery, these look much better, I like the fact that you are safe in the knowledge that you have more than enough through bolts to assemble a battleship and aren't just trusting a layer or 2 of Kapton tape, I didn't like the bolt on bus bars though, I have always thought that spot welding /soldered joints were the way to go if you are pulling more than a couple of amps from it, I think the bolt on bus bars could present corrosion problems in the future, although I see from your solar battery banks you seem to get away with not giving a crap about that!! I think these batteries can output up to 6/8A? maybe soldering would be better long term but these connectors could be used to build custom packs to experiment with different series/parallel configurations and you could build and test several configurations in one day, so they are like breadboards in that respect, perfect for your channel I'm thinking for a long term solution these connectors for mechanical strength and spot welding/soldering would be the best construction? If anyone has built e-bike batteries with these particular cells and can give me some advice then I would greatly appreciate it, I know that at 1.3A capacity they are not the best choice but for 25p each I just couldn't say no! A B. M. S. and nickel bus bars would add about £15 to my £11 battery bill, so getting the best out of a cheap arsed system is my goal I am thinking of a 10s 4p battery driving a 36v 500w rear hub motor that will do 10 - 15 miles at a reasonable pace, not expecting to go too far or go too fast, any advice would be appreciated, cheers
That would only hold 187 Watt/hours of charge if my math is right. Might not last long on such a powerful motor, unless you aren't planning on going all out. At 0.25 each though, that is a really good value for that amount of capacity, but I think stopping at 4p might be a little lacking, but depends on your needs.
@@rich1051414 yeah, I know it's not the best solution by far, I'm thinking of making a cheap eBay e-bike, A 2nd hand donor mountain bike, maybe £100, eBay 36v 500w kit (minus battery), maybe £200, For now I have a very cheap battery to get going with a veiw to using it for a year or so and building a new battery pack, probably using Panasonic 3.5A/h or similar for added range and a bit of oomph, I'm not expecting the Wickes batteries to add much other than some ease in pedalling for about 10 - 15 miles, I think 180w/h should be ok at first, but you are probably right, I think I'll probably hit the limit at about 8 or 9 miles, but that's fine for everyday use for me and will be expandable on range and power with a better battery in the near future, Thanks for your input
@@JulianIlett I think it's better to use a few bolts to build a battery than a couple of layers of tape, in an accident scenario (20 mph bike into 40mph car = 60mph) I would trust a bolt through pack just a bit more, After having a few bike accidents without a lithium pack strapped to the frame I think I would appreciate the extra build quality in the heat of the moment!
I made a 14S16P ebike battery using 224 cells. Cheapest way I did it was to hot glue 16 cells to make 2x8 brick, then lay 10 gauge silicone wire across the top and bottom. I cut out some of the insulation to make a space to solder some magnet wire to 2 cells, and repeat. I used double strands for the negative side so a short would only blow the positive side. Secure the 10 gauge wire with hot glue and wrap with duct tape. The ends of the wire extend a few cm from the pack, and I added bullet connectors, so they can be daisy chained easily. Arrange the packs as you like around the bike in whatever shape you need, or put in a box, panniers or couple of camera bags hanging over each side. A lot of work, but I got a 2kWh 10kg battery for free that will do 100 miles...
I'm fairly naive to electronics. I built an 18650 based mobile charging station for racing drone batteries. I didn't have a spot welder, so I 3d-printed some holders and folded aluminum foil over and over and flattened it in a bench vice...then used that to connext all the batteries for testing before ordering real 18650 holders. Thing is, it worked fine with the foil. I regularly charge at 200+ watts. Just curious on if I'm fine leaving it...or is there any danger in the way I rigged it up?
Do you think it is really worth the money? I mean, you could get around 10 good cells for that pack or a 100 used ones. And nickel strips are much cheaper - o.k. - you have to weld them on. I have never disassembled a pack i had made - so why should you?
I need those without these Plates. I want fuses attached by the nut between the screw of the battery and the cable. Is it possible to buy something like this but only the caps?
Quick touch with a Demel does away with the burs on the cells. JeHu did a thing on these and in the end he gave up. Couldn't get all the cells working at one time.
No, because the nickel strip is softer than the steel battery base - so the battery terminal has the pip on it, the nickel strip ends up torn to pieces :)
@@JulianIlett Right. I ask because I tried it once and it did tear a hole in it. Mind you, this was probably 20 years ago, so maybe the technology has changed since then.
@@AndyCallaway Depends how strong the weld is. I've had a couple of cells that tore, so now I always use flush cutters to cut them off and leave no jaggies behind.
On NiCad and NiMh cells that I have broken out of packs, I have just cut the existing metal straps and have soldered wires onto the remains of the straps with out problems. I do have a 50W iron with a large bit, so that helps to make the solder joint quick (less heat then goes into the cell).
@@JulianIlett Isn't this product from the youtuber EbikeSchool.com? They are very expensive... I'm sure china could get them to us for half that price ;)
Julian, looks like you haven't watched any of the thousands of videos over the last 4 years showing how to properly harvest 18650 cells! Use sharp flush side cutters to remove the nickel strips and jaggies. Pulling the strips risks ripping the can and leaking electrolyte. Can use a Dremel for stubborn jaggies if really necessary. Vruzend don't have a good reputation in the DIY powerwall community but they seem good enough for small amateur packs. When you're building packs with thousands of cells, then there are far better and cheaper methods.
Request: How well do these allow a "stack" of cells in 3S? End to end. I ask because finding a demonstration is extremely rare on the web. My ideal is 3S2P, so two stacks of three, side by side. Possible with these connectors?
I've made a few 36v. This IS what you need. To make it simple. You can use all kinds of cells if it shorts or dies. So What pop in and out. My exp by the time you solder and fight the whole thing it sucks. Great invention. I save soldering for my e skateboard. I hot glue then go. Bigger batteries need this
I would have preferred longer clamping bolts with a washer on top of the plastic legs, but that would make the pack longer and and would not stand on end with a 4 cell arrangement.
You watch too many fictional TV programmes and/or films where they imply the colour of the wire has a meaning... If I was going to build a bomb (I have no interest or intention in making bombs) I would use the same wire colour for every connection. And the colour I would use would be black.... good luck guessing which wire to cut...
I've heard some pretty mixed things about the Vruzend kits. And by "mixed" I mean "bad and worse." I borrowed ideas from several of the models I found on Thingiverse and assembled my own take on a 3D-printable battery holder. www.thingiverse.com/thing:3824557 a 7-wide box costs about $1US to print, and I wired them using scrap power cable and ethernet wire.
I'll bet you money that those caps are off the market within a year, to many lawsuits on people starting fires, etc.... In essence getting there wires crossed!
I've learned to make more smaller packs for my ebike connect in series have a few around switch out no problem. If you have a big battery something goes wrong big problem also hobby chargers they are cheap $15bucks good enough generic. imax original$50 NOPE
Do not get this version regardless of the price! I ruined 7 perfectly good 18650s with it. Wait for more improvements or do the right thing - spot weld 1. When you push the cells into the caps it's a tight fit so you compress the air inside and like a spring the caps come ever so slightly away from the contacts - a small hole in each one would relieve this and make assembly/disassembly easier. 2 Because of #1 there isn't much tactile feedback when pressing the caps over the cells. It shouldn't be possible to over insert the cells. I ruined 7 perfectly good 18650s because of this. There should be a molded in stop inside the cap to prevent over insertion.
serously... this is lithium cells, not Legos... thoose shity holders are completly closing the cells and in the event that only one of them catch fire, it wont catch fire, it will explode like a bomb! The explosion even if it is a small one, would deform the entire pack and create shorts, that will create other explosions... Now the great thing is all those litle shity terminals that will then act as multiple bullets.
If the plastic connectors come loose over time (most likely because of vibrations), so will the screws of the barrel bolts. You at least need some loctite. Plus the added bulk to the pack isn't worth it. Very gimmicky.
Can anyone recommend a good seller of 18650s on Ebay? I have a few power tool batteries to repair :P And a 40v lawnmower battery. Ideally theyd be high current cells as well :) Around the 2000mah range :P
No really, the capacity should be stated in Ah, as the value is above 1Ah (1000mAh). You don’t hear people talking about using 24000mV power tools do you!
Kenn Mossman - Oh I got the point, but the use of the incorrect case of the letters and the general misuse of SI units (International System of Units) is so widespread it is really annoying, hence I like to use a silly example to show it up. Also annoying is people no longer reading back what they have written. Often the excuse is that they are using a so called ‘smart’phone.
Avoid anything with "fire" in the name and advertised capacities over 3400 mAh. They are all fake. Some cells are even half filled with rice or sand. Only get reputable brands such as Samsung or Panasonic. Note that power cells (~ 1500 mAh) have lower capacities than energy cells (< 3400mAh) but can supply more current because the electrodes are thicker so less room for electrode materials.
Inside tip my exp buy laptop batt packs eBay as many as possible in pack 9 or 12 brand new theseARE quality cells generic. People get it wrong the mini BMS is the Fire hazard average $1 to 2per cell. Unless you are wealthy then buy LG Panasonic 3 to 5per cell NOPE.
Purchased kit. What a waste of money. Parts do not stay together while constructing battery arrangement. Contacts to battery ends problematic. The entire process is far more time consuming then this video makes it seem. Nice idea...but in real life a major failure...
Yes, it's only America that uses the imperial system. A testament to our lack of a good education system :-( We couldn't figure out the Metric system years ago so we just gave up on it -- sigh
@@Cadwaladr I prefer metric, but I'm learning imperial as I buy a lot of kits and antenna's that come from the US and obviously their fasteners are in imperial units. Being in Aus, we're a predominantly metric society, but we initially started with the imperial system. I can already calculate feet and inches in my head, now to learn the nuts and bolts conversion of fasteners :)
These holders are garbage. "Stop tightening if the plastic starts to break"? I mean, seriously? Besides, unless you have 4, 6, 8, 9, 11 or 12 cells, the bolts are useless and the caps fall off. What an utter pile of wank. (Also, I've noticed that Julian spends countless pounds on various money-saving and environment-saving equipment - batteries, supercaps, solar panels etc - and must end up spending more money than he would if he just used mains power like a normal person. And it's hardly going to save the environment when you're shipping tons of unnecessary crap around the country. By all means do these things, but does anyone seriously think that it's somehow "green"?)
What I've found is that those little bits of metal left behind when pulling the straps off can usually be flattened enough by simply tapping them with the side of the pliers. The metal is soft and they easily mash down flat.
Ah OK, I was cutting them down last night with my new flush cutters :)
@@JulianIlett That would be useful for removing larger remmnants of metal, but would still leave some sharp bits so tapping the sharp bits down with the metal pliers would still be useful. They're light enough so they're not likely to cause damage to the battery but they're solid enough to mash the small points down.
I use the flat part of my pliers, where the joint is. That seems to work okay.
While this product is expensive, I really love the idea of these types of systems. Where you can add cells easily and put it together without any soldering. Because I really hate trying to solder something on top of an 18650, you need a really high power soldering iron and I am always worried about the heat getting into the cell during the process. Plus if you ever have a problem you have to desolder and those self made packs usually look like a mess.
I like the idea of these packing system where it uses bolts and screws etc. This makes it easier to put together, plus it makes it easier to replace and also means you don't have to worry about damaging the cell with heat from a soldering iron.
But my most favourite and easy way so far are these empty power banks that you can buy from China, all you have to do is put 8 18650's inside and the system has built in balancing and charging etc and USB ports for output. I use this power bank to power the light in my room, it can run my room light for around 30 hours straight before it runs out. It usually lasts around 5 nights until I have to recharge it. That's a decent enough time for me that I don't consider it impractical. It then charges on a high power USB socket from my inverter, generally it takes around 10 hours to charge. So basically a full day if you get it on there very early.
Now the above system in your video though is superior to those 8x18650 power banks that I mentioned in one way, with the system in your video it's possibly to make a large power banks. Such as easily 20+ cells.
Meaning you can easily put together a 200+ watt hour system.
AMD now make new APU's (CPU+GPU system) which only use a max of 35w in load. Thus it's more like 20w in regular use on average, combined with other components you need for the computer it's possible to put together a reasonably competent computer that only uses a max of 55w at load (or more like 40w on average overall).
With such a system you would use those DC-DC CPU power supplies, this connects to the 24 pin socket on the motherboard and has the CPU power connector also. You can get small ones of these with 120w capabilities and they are highly efficient, this would be perfect for the computer in question.
Then you just connect the other side of that DC-DC power supply to the lithium battery pack. This is my goal, to build this system.
I probably won't buy the expensive Panasonic high capacity cells (even though they are the best). But I will settle on more common cells with capacities around 2500mAh.
And basically all you have to do is get around 48 of these batteries and build the battery pack. This should give you around a 444 watt hour battery, which in theory could run this computer for around 11 hours before needing recharging. But it's safer to assume 10 hours when taking into conversions and inefficiencies. That's still a good run time.
Of a day time you would connect it just to the output wires from your charge controller, and let the remainder solar power charge the battery pack up. Then of a night time flick a switch over for the computer to be powered by the battery pack.
I like the idea of this. There is only one power conversion done in this system and the conversions are very close to each other in voltage anyway and it's DC-DC.
Yet people who run their computer from an inverter are doing crazy conversions and losses, first their battery is converted from around 12v to 240v (or whatever your country uses), then that is plugged into a computer power supply which then takes that 240v and converts it back down to 12v. Thus you are converting it up and down hugely twice and also going from DC to AC and AC back to DC. Expecting power losses of up to 30-40% in such a setup is typical of this poor setup.
That's why going with a DC-DC system and forgetting high voltage AC is the way to go with powering your computer.
This system is my goal, if I ever have enough spare time to make it I will upload it to my other youtube channel.
Given that there is no real length tolerance I'd suggest just cutting the tab ends inside the contact diameter and leaving the welds/tabs in place. Rolling them off sardine-can fashion has the potential to open the cell if the weld comes away with the tab.
It's definitely out of India. They have had an American distributor, maybe Micah Toll. Looking at the Forum it is not very active. I have the original kit. There were a lot of criticisms. I'm pretty sure the springs are better now, and they are using a bolt to retain compression. Neal Saiki had a battery system going back to at least 2012, The NTS thing. Never went anywhere, but it was part of an ebike crowdfunding deal. I think the Chinese have developed robotic spot welders, along the way, so churning out modules is not a very big deal. No one is willing to say that any compression system is comparable to a spot weld. Basically with cheaper cells and robot welding, markets like ebikes can get batteries at 1/4 the cost of five years ago. The original Sondors bike, with all the US controversy, had a very low cost battery. Jehu Garcia has promoted some sort of compression system. What's the future? People in the US Ebike community never embraced Vruzend. I wish they would just sell shrink wrapped modules, 5 or 8 or 10 cells in series, spot welded. I'd put XT60 s on the end.
George Sears odd comment. They have actually improved significantly and are gaining acceptance.
I evaluated the Vruzend stuff a couple years ago and determined that the plastic friction was not a suitable retainer. Plus, they were expensive, comparatively. It's good to see that they came around and put barrel bolts on them. Perhaps there will be fewer fires now, eh? =:-0
Expensive solution and for big $ I'm surprised inside sprung contact of end pieces doesn't have a small tripod of gold-plated bumps to ensure good low-heat conduction. These may be fire risk above ~2 amps and not to be used under vibration.
Julian, you spend £1 on battery packs to save money, then spend $40 on the holders? ?
Lmao
what would you buy?
95% of my costs go on fittings and hardware and 5% on the cells. battery packs and cells are cheap as chips shops practically give them away when they have been sitting around for 12 months or more. Sadly the BMS runs the packs down to 0v over a long time some packs are good as new after 2 years sitting some are compleatly dead. The date on that wickes pack is week 44 2015
I'd buy the copper to complete my microwave oven transformer spot welder, and a reel of nickel tabbing wire.
Be careful pulling the nickel strips off the battery negative, the metal on the battery is only thin, I pulled one once and it made a hole in the cell and the cell vented.
Hello Julian. Sliding your battery ends on a flat sheet of sandpaper will do nicely to remove the spot welds. Greetings from Toronto, Canada. Love your Assembly Language - PIC Microcontroller videos too!
Perfect for making a battery back for a portable Bluetooth speaker. Shame I can't buy less than a quarter kit. I only need 24v max, unless I build a much longer lasting pack.
Great video! Very useful kit and review. I will be using these a lot! Thanks!
Aha, as others have pointed out, these are VERY expensive. Over a dollar per battery. As others have also pointed out, the Chinese should be solving this problem very soon! ;-)
Thank you Julian, perfectly timed! I am very interested in this - but this arrangement is not very space-saving if you have 3 cells you want to combine. Still, I might be able to live with the empty fourth quadrant and use it for battery management/charging or a lighting module somehow.
If you have a few parallel rows, you wouldn't use this square configuration.
@@JulianIlett Thank you for replying! That makes sense of course. I am (loosely so far) planning a 3s1p configuration with the three side by side or 2 on the bottom and 1 on top. Anything else I found has either flimsy connectors or is a large but decent 2x2 arrangement which I could use with a "dummy" battery.
While not ideal, this Vruzend one still looks better than anything I have found before!
Julian, when my father was in school (college) the powers that be changed the direction of flow of the electrons from positive (+) to neg. (-) and back again, I think it's changed a few times. Does anyone know for certain, which way they flow, or don't, lol? About seventy or eighty years ago....
Haha, I've been told they move from negative to positive at about walking pace, it's just easier to think about it backwards, apparently, hope this helps... BTW I love the idea of the 'powers that be' telling each and every electron in each and every circuit to turn around and go back around the other way, not just once but several times...just think of the logistics🙄
It's all in the details.
The eletrons move slowly from negative to positive.
The "holes" as the eletrons step onward move from positive to negative.
Electrons are negatively charged and are attracted to positive (opposites attract, alike repel) so electron flow is always from negative to positive. Conventional current is said to flow in the opposite direction just to confuse everyone.
@@erlendse makes sense, I think they need a hole to 'fall' into to keep shuffling forward?
I saw a video recently by Steve Mould, he was vibrating small steel ball bearings to illustrate grain boundaries in metals, it made me think of atoms and lattices
If you haven't seen his videos then please check them out
There are two different ways of thinking and talking about current flow -- so-called "conventional" current which goes from positive to negative, and electron current which goes from negative to positive. It's possible that which one is more prevalent in textbooks has changed over time. But nobody has ever said that electrons flow from positive to negative. Not even Scotty can change the laws of physics!
The batteries were welded in series you cut them apart and put them back in series? When you tighten the barrel bolt hook a meter to the battery bolts and snug it just past when you have voltage so to not over tighten them.
Do positive caps have a vent hole in case of battery failure or do the cases just explode ?
You could drill a vent hole, but they're quite leaky anyway.
interesting battery connection system
Definitely Interesting, not really my cup of tea, but excellent for a temporary pack! Heck, you can pry it all apart and replace the cells when they fail, that's a big plus once the fuss of assembling all those bolts and tabs is done :) pretty neat.
"I'm not going to use these grey cells..." - some mean people might take that out of context :)
He he - very Freudian :)
@
Steve Oddlers
i got rid of all my grey cells , now ive got a stick keeping my ears apart :-)
@Wolfgang Preier
never take light bulbs , always take LEDs :-)
Poirot have a few of them...
Make sure you Vaseline the sides of the batteries where they insert into carriers. The bigger the pack the more difficult alignment becomes. Trust me tried and tested with lube.
Can't you assemble the pack in rows (shorter dimension) - I'll see what the problems are when I build a bigger pack.
@@JulianIlett When you assemble packs, which no doubts you'll bank together, I found that small packs need to be squared quite accurately else the dovetail/connecting tabs struggle to line up, hence the lube helps contact corrosion and insertion.
I managed to harvest 43 cells (6 of the 3 cell batteries and 5 of the 5 cell type as shown here and also a couple of £30 pillar drills, bonus! ) in a mad dash around Kent/South London a few weeks back... Thanks for the tip!
I have bought some generic ebay crappy plastic snap together battery holders to make a low capacity e-bike battery, these look much better, I like the fact that you are safe in the knowledge that you have more than enough through bolts to assemble a battleship and aren't just trusting a layer or 2 of Kapton tape,
I didn't like the bolt on bus bars though, I have always thought that spot welding /soldered joints were the way to go if you are pulling more than a couple of amps from it, I think the bolt on bus bars could present corrosion problems in the future, although I see from your solar battery banks you seem to get away with not giving a crap about that!!
I think these batteries can output up to 6/8A? maybe soldering would be better long term but these connectors could be used to build custom packs to experiment with different series/parallel configurations and you could build and test several configurations in one day, so they are like breadboards in that respect, perfect for your channel
I'm thinking for a long term solution these connectors for mechanical strength and spot welding/soldering would be the best construction?
If anyone has built e-bike batteries with these particular cells and can give me some advice then I would greatly appreciate it, I know that at 1.3A capacity they are not the best choice but for 25p each I just couldn't say no!
A B. M. S. and nickel bus bars would add about £15 to my £11 battery bill, so getting the best out of a cheap arsed system is my goal
I am thinking of a 10s 4p battery driving a 36v 500w rear hub motor that will do 10 - 15 miles at a reasonable pace, not expecting to go too far or go too fast, any advice would be appreciated, cheers
Well, the kit contains just 12 barrel bolts for the 54 cells, so they have to distributed carefully.
That would only hold 187 Watt/hours of charge if my math is right. Might not last long on such a powerful motor, unless you aren't planning on going all out. At 0.25 each though, that is a really good value for that amount of capacity, but I think stopping at 4p might be a little lacking, but depends on your needs.
@@rich1051414 yeah, I know it's not the best solution by far, I'm thinking of making a cheap eBay e-bike,
A 2nd hand donor mountain bike, maybe £100, eBay 36v 500w kit (minus battery), maybe £200,
For now I have a very cheap battery to get going with a veiw to using it for a year or so and building a new battery pack, probably using Panasonic 3.5A/h or similar for added range and a bit of oomph, I'm not expecting the Wickes batteries to add much other than some ease in pedalling for about 10 - 15 miles, I think 180w/h should be ok at first, but you are probably right, I think I'll probably hit the limit at about 8 or 9 miles, but that's fine for everyday use for me and will be expandable on range and power with a better battery in the near future,
Thanks for your input
@@JulianIlett I think it's better to use a few bolts to build a battery than a couple of layers of tape, in an accident scenario (20 mph bike into 40mph car = 60mph) I would trust a bolt through pack just a bit more,
After having a few bike accidents without a lithium pack strapped to the frame I think I would appreciate the extra build quality in the heat of the moment!
I made a 14S16P ebike battery using 224 cells. Cheapest way I did it was to hot glue 16 cells to make 2x8 brick, then lay 10 gauge silicone wire across the top and bottom.
I cut out some of the insulation to make a space to solder some magnet wire to 2 cells, and repeat.
I used double strands for the negative side so a short would only blow the positive side.
Secure the 10 gauge wire with hot glue and wrap with duct tape.
The ends of the wire extend a few cm from the pack, and I added bullet connectors, so they can be daisy chained easily.
Arrange the packs as you like around the bike in whatever shape you need, or put in a box, panniers or couple of camera bags hanging over each side.
A lot of work, but I got a 2kWh 10kg battery for free that will do 100 miles...
I'm fairly naive to electronics. I built an 18650 based mobile charging station for racing drone batteries. I didn't have a spot welder, so I 3d-printed some holders and folded aluminum foil over and over and flattened it in a bench vice...then used that to connext all the batteries for testing before ordering real 18650 holders. Thing is, it worked fine with the foil. I regularly charge at 200+ watts. Just curious on if I'm fine leaving it...or is there any danger in the way I rigged it up?
Do you think it is really worth the money? I mean, you could get around 10 good cells for that pack or a 100 used ones. And nickel strips are much cheaper - o.k. - you have to weld them on. I have never disassembled a pack i had made - so why should you?
Rather than grinding, make soft metal disks thicker than the pips?
Could really use some springs on those bolts to allow some expansion. Interesting system though
I agree, the plastic will cold flow overtime and nut tension will be reduced.
I need those without these Plates. I want fuses attached by the nut between the screw of the battery and the cable. Is it possible to buy something like this but only the caps?
Quick touch with a Demel does away with the burs on the cells. JeHu did a thing on these and in the end he gave up. Couldn't get all the cells working at one time.
Why *nickel* strips? Is it easier to spot-weld?
When you pulled the metal strips off the cells, did it make a hole where the spot weld was? And does it matter if it did?
I doubt it! but it did create a uneven surface which creates four contact point to transfer current (not good).
No, because the nickel strip is softer than the steel battery base - so the battery terminal has the pip on it, the nickel strip ends up torn to pieces :)
@@JulianIlett Right. I ask because I tried it once and it did tear a hole in it.
Mind you, this was probably 20 years ago, so maybe the technology has changed since then.
@@AndyCallaway Depends how strong the weld is. I've had a couple of cells that tore, so now I always use flush cutters to cut them off and leave no jaggies behind.
Hello
I bought a QD 188 with usb c out/in fast charge input 5V-20V Output
4-24V Thought you might want to review it.
I have a pre-USBC version QD188
0:46 Just drill out the welds in the first cell. The rest will disassemble them self
funny :)
Could you not cut the welded strips down but leave them in place on top and bottom as a contact into the battery system?
I guess that would work :)
On NiCad and NiMh cells that I have broken out of packs, I have just cut the existing metal straps and have soldered wires onto the remains of the straps with out problems. I do have a 50W iron with a large bit, so that helps to make the solder joint quick (less heat then goes into the cell).
Looks like a nice system, is it very expensive?
It was £33 on eBay - from the official UK distributor (I think)
@@JulianIlett Isn't this product from the youtuber EbikeSchool.com? They are very expensive... I'm sure china could get them to us for half that price ;)
@@LeeFall BTW...they're made in India.
We're can I buy please tell me pretty .
in my company uk we used 5.5mm nuts
Pretty sure I saw a video in the recent past which said these weren't that good because of the springs dying or not working out the box 🤷♂️
Try Version 2!
Gosh, this is an odd coincidence... I was just looking at these this morning!
I think talc would be better than Vaseline for the tight end caps, because it would be a big problem trying to press together 20 at once.
Julian, looks like you haven't watched any of the thousands of videos over the last 4 years showing how to properly harvest 18650 cells! Use sharp flush side cutters to remove the nickel strips and jaggies.
Pulling the strips risks ripping the can and leaking electrolyte.
Can use a Dremel for stubborn jaggies if really necessary.
Vruzend don't have a good reputation in the DIY powerwall community but they seem good enough for small amateur packs.
When you're building packs with thousands of cells, then there are far better and cheaper methods.
Request: How well do these allow a "stack" of cells in 3S? End to end. I ask because finding a demonstration is extremely rare on the web. My ideal is 3S2P, so two stacks of three, side by side. Possible with these connectors?
what's the metallurgy of these things ?
"nickel" - plating over recycled sardine can base metal ??
will it rust out in 3 or 12 months ??
The shipping from the UK makes these rather expensive in North America. Perhaps the Chinese will get into the business.
India uses both metric and imperial, as a former British-Colony makes sense.
I am from India and I can confirm your comment.
Err, In the U.K. we still use metric and at least two different imperial threads...
I dont think you specified the cost of this kit unless i missed it?
I paid £33 for the 54-cell kit.
@@JulianIlett Ouch a little bit crazy cost?
I've made a few 36v. This IS what you need. To make it simple. You can use all kinds of cells if it shorts or dies. So What pop in and out. My exp by the time you solder and fight the whole thing it sucks. Great invention. I save soldering for my e skateboard. I hot glue then go. Bigger batteries need this
@@JulianIlett cheaper to drill holes in some boards and use them, stronger too.
Bought one, thanks Julian!
HI DEAR HOW CAN PURCHASE THIS FROM INDIA.?
12:28 reminds me of fastening a door plate with its adversary on the other side of the door
good work Julian thanks for sharing.cheers mate
That is quite useful.
I would have preferred longer clamping bolts with a washer on top of the plastic legs, but that would make the pack longer and and would not stand on end with a 4 cell arrangement.
"Lets cut the red wire here... Oh no, maybe I should have cut the black wire" - sentence no one wants to hear in presence of bomb disposal specialist
It didn't explode, so he obviously made the right choice!
You watch too many fictional TV programmes and/or films where they imply the colour of the wire has a meaning...
If I was going to build a bomb (I have no interest or intention in making bombs) I would use the same wire colour for every connection. And the colour I would use would be black.... good luck guessing which wire to cut...
Nice 18650 lego
Those cell holders are sealing up the vent holes. Not exactly safe
Makes for a bigger BOOM💥 when the pack does enter self destruct mode!
How has no one called you a lucky b word for getting those batteries for 1quid a pack
Where can you even get those batteries so cheaply, apart from asking various stores if you can go rifling through their battery recycling bins? :p
Just lucky timing - Wickes were clearing out their spare battery stocks. I got about 50 cells, but a couple of lucky chaps got 250 cells each.
Assad used barrel bolts.
yes but Assad's barrel bolts were under your nuts?
@@breakalegfpv9532 they don't have nuts look. It gets screwed from both ends.
nice
When I test capacity w hobby charger 2200 on the money $1
Speed of up please
I've heard some pretty mixed things about the Vruzend kits. And by "mixed" I mean "bad and worse."
I borrowed ideas from several of the models I found on Thingiverse and assembled my own take on a 3D-printable battery holder. www.thingiverse.com/thing:3824557
a 7-wide box costs about $1US to print, and I wired them using scrap power cable and ethernet wire.
I tried earlier versions of these. Absolute rubbish. This seems an improved version.
I'll bet you money that those caps are off the market within a year, to many lawsuits on people starting fires, etc.... In essence getting there wires crossed!
I've learned to make more smaller packs for my ebike connect in series have a few around switch out no problem. If you have a big battery something goes wrong big problem also hobby chargers they are cheap $15bucks good enough generic. imax original$50 NOPE
If they paid shipping or brought them down to$20 they couldn't keep them in stock
Do not get this version regardless of the price! I ruined 7 perfectly good 18650s with it. Wait for more improvements or do the right thing - spot weld
1. When you push the cells into the caps it's a tight fit so you compress the air inside and like a spring the caps come ever so slightly away from the contacts - a small hole in each one would relieve this and make assembly/disassembly easier. 2 Because of #1 there isn't much tactile feedback when pressing the caps over the cells. It shouldn't be possible to over insert the cells. I ruined 7 perfectly good 18650s because of this. There should be a molded in stop inside the cap to prevent over insertion.
Watch the video again and listen to what he saya....
@@philipboug looks like no
@@pleasecho2 Yes... OK in a square but you cannot use it in a line because nowhere for the barrel bolts.
@@philipboug There's always zip ties.
@@pleasecho2 Not very elegant... Good luck.
Nice, now i can build my secondary battery for my xiaomi m365 :) does anyone know a thrusted seller to buy good cells? thanks in advance ;)
Ebike kits$150 eBay all the way. Or$1500 your choice LOL
serously... this is lithium cells, not Legos... thoose shity holders are completly closing the cells and in the event that only one of them catch fire, it wont catch fire, it will explode like a bomb!
The explosion even if it is a small one, would deform the entire pack and create shorts, that will create other explosions...
Now the great thing is all those litle shity terminals that will then act as multiple bullets.
Or you could just not blow your batteries up :)
If the plastic connectors come loose over time (most likely because of vibrations), so will the screws of the barrel bolts. You at least need some loctite. Plus the added bulk to the pack isn't worth it. Very gimmicky.
Also I hateBMS use hobby chargers throw packs together like nothing ezpz
Can anyone recommend a good seller of 18650s on Ebay? I have a few power tool batteries to repair :P And a 40v lawnmower battery. Ideally theyd be high current cells as well :) Around the 2000mah range :P
its mAH
No really, the capacity should be stated in Ah, as the value is above 1Ah (1000mAh). You don’t hear people talking about using 24000mV power tools do you!
@@Mark1024MAK Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha you are such a card. But missed the point. Besides that you are full of sh&t
Kenn Mossman - Oh I got the point, but the use of the incorrect case of the letters and the general misuse of SI units (International System of Units) is so widespread it is really annoying, hence I like to use a silly example to show it up. Also annoying is people no longer reading back what they have written. Often the excuse is that they are using a so called ‘smart’phone.
Avoid anything with "fire" in the name and advertised capacities over 3400 mAh. They are all fake.
Some cells are even half filled with rice or sand.
Only get reputable brands such as Samsung or Panasonic.
Note that power cells (~ 1500 mAh) have lower capacities than energy cells (< 3400mAh) but can supply more current because the electrodes are thicker so less room for electrode materials.
Inside tip my exp buy laptop batt packs eBay as many as possible in pack 9 or 12 brand new theseARE quality cells generic. People get it wrong the mini BMS is the Fire hazard average $1 to 2per cell. Unless you are wealthy then buy LG Panasonic 3 to 5per cell NOPE.
Purchased kit. What a waste of money. Parts do not stay together while constructing battery arrangement. Contacts to battery ends problematic. The entire process is far more time consuming then this video makes it seem. Nice idea...but in real life a major failure...
julian look at jag35.com he's got so great stuff on these type of batteries. also got a youtube channel
Yes, it's only America that uses the imperial system. A testament to our lack of a good education system :-( We couldn't figure out the Metric system years ago so we just gave up on it -- sigh
I learned both in school. I've always preferred imperial.
@@Cadwaladr I prefer metric, but I'm learning imperial as I buy a lot of kits and antenna's that come from the US and obviously their fasteners are in imperial units. Being in Aus, we're a predominantly metric society, but we initially started with the imperial system. I can already calculate feet and inches in my head, now to learn the nuts and bolts conversion of fasteners :)
@@Cadwaladr Yes, I learned both in high school (being an engineering student). The majority of people I know never learned metric in school, though.
Ive pretty much adopted metric but in imperial's defense, Fahrenheit is more accurate due to more divisions
pleasecho2 - not heard of digits after the decimal point then...
These holders are garbage. "Stop tightening if the plastic starts to break"? I mean, seriously? Besides, unless you have 4, 6, 8, 9, 11 or 12 cells, the bolts are useless and the caps fall off. What an utter pile of wank.
(Also, I've noticed that Julian spends countless pounds on various money-saving and environment-saving equipment - batteries, supercaps, solar panels etc - and must end up spending more money than he would if he just used mains power like a normal person. And it's hardly going to save the environment when you're shipping tons of unnecessary crap around the country. By all means do these things, but does anyone seriously think that it's somehow "green"?)
battery legos...
yeah kinda