Sport after sport, we've learned that generally what feels right *is* right for that athlete (within limits, of course). There's no one correct golf swing, way to run a marathon, pedaling stroke, etc. There are certainly guidelines, but exceptional people have always found ways to excel that are 'wrong.' Paula Radcliffe, Jim Furyk, and even Dick Fosbury's 'Fosbury Flop' revolutionized high jump.
I so wanted to see a good video on pedaling technique... Let's be clear on this, the riders you use as examples are natural athletes. The difference between the natural athlete and the rest of us is their ability to turn off the defense mechanisms the body has and make it do things. 99.99% of us can't do that, so we need learning methods that break the motion down into it's component parts. Nobody is offering this. Next little issue, failure states. You learned how to walk because you can fail - it's called falling down. It probably took you most of your first year and a half to learn how to walk, but people learn how to pedal in 5 minutes (or so they think). The truth is if your pedal stroke efficiency > 0 the pedals go around in the right direction, and people mistake that for pedaling. A few years back Pioneer came out with a power meter that showed force vectors around the pedal stroke, every 30 degrees. It was a retail disaster because people saw huge amounts of force straight down at the bottom of the pedal stroke, and they disagreed with the measuring device (yes, people do that) and they returned the power meter (I'm not kidding). The PowerTap P1 pedal app had the same function in it's first generation, but for some reason it's missing in the new version. There's a very simple reason people put that much downward force on the bottom of the pedal stroke - you learned how to stand and walk, and that's your dominant skill set. At this point most people cite studies that say that there's nothing to gain by trying to change how you pedal. Take a close look at the studies, then look at the 3 stage learning process for motor skills - they're all missing something. The studies are done by telling riders to try to pedal one way or another, that's really not how learning works. Humans can learn motor skills (I've watched myself play piano, I'm pretty sure that's something I wasn't born knowing how to do), coaches need to come up with teaching methods. Teaching methods mean reverse engineering the pedal stroke to see how power can be applied. To your credit, you did get one thing right, force is not even all the way around the pedal stroke. That would imply that your hip flexors or hamstrings are as strong as your glutes or quads... But then you say that the quad should be active in the down stroke. Take a picture of yourself on a bike with the pedal at 3:00, then tell me how firing the quad is going to generate downward force. The efficiency of that muscle at that point is below 15%, you would be much better off learning how to relax that muscle to get blood flow. Muscle firing sequence is something that can be learned, but again you need a teaching method.
@@neoneherefrom5836 Effective muscle recruitment does depend on circumstances. Climbing hills requires torque which is best supplied by a wide muscle with equal length attachment points - glutes. Leg speed and acceleration are better supplied by a long muscle with a sort attachment point past the fulcrum - quads. What doesn't change is the efficiency of force applied at an offset angle. It's math, the efficiency is SIN(offset angle). If you push straight down when the pedal is at 3:00 (90 degrees) your efficiency is 100%, if you push straight down when the crank is at 6:00 (180 degrees) your efficiency is zero. I do bike fittings all day long, that's my job. I address pedaling technique and muscle recruitment by stopping the pedal at 3:00 and asking the rider to push down. Almost everybody recruits the quad. The reason is simple, they learned how to walk. Your first motor skill is learning to lift your own body weight while standing. The quad does that perfectly because your hip is over your foot, so extending at the knee lifts your body weight. It doesn't work that way on a bike - try it. If you fire your quad you extend the lower leg from the knee. The force is in the wrong direction. If you pay attention you'll notice that your hip moves back and you pull on the handlebars to hold position. It's force in a direction the pedal isn't moving in, it's wasted.
@@unrestrictedphotography1425 perhaps but again it depends on the circumstance. Since you’re a bike fitter, I’m assuming your conditions are based on a relaxed steady state all-day ride in the saddle scenario. Now… calf muscle recruitment on the other hand is certainly a little overrated in my opinion!
Gcn show tackles this question with data results from pro trainers and found they were actually as inefficient as your average rider. Takeaway, just ride to your comfort level.
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I’m loving this focused short segments as opposed to many topics in a longer video. More efficient :)
Yes keep these uP!
These segments from the podcasts are great. Keep them up. Hard to find the questions I want in an 1:45 podcast
Souplesse: exhibits an artistic mastery in form and function
Souple is french for Supple. Souplesse is french for suppleness. That what it means. literally.
I was told that riding your rollers will help with pedal stroke and core. Good video!
Sport after sport, we've learned that generally what feels right *is* right for that athlete (within limits, of course). There's no one correct golf swing, way to run a marathon, pedaling stroke, etc. There are certainly guidelines, but exceptional people have always found ways to excel that are 'wrong.' Paula Radcliffe, Jim Furyk, and even Dick Fosbury's 'Fosbury Flop' revolutionized high jump.
So much better this way. Your 1hr and a bit podcasts are way too long. At least this way I can find the answers I’m looking for
I so wanted to see a good video on pedaling technique...
Let's be clear on this, the riders you use as examples are natural athletes. The difference between the natural athlete and the rest of us is their ability to turn off the defense mechanisms the body has and make it do things. 99.99% of us can't do that, so we need learning methods that break the motion down into it's component parts. Nobody is offering this.
Next little issue, failure states. You learned how to walk because you can fail - it's called falling down. It probably took you most of your first year and a half to learn how to walk, but people learn how to pedal in 5 minutes (or so they think). The truth is if your pedal stroke efficiency > 0 the pedals go around in the right direction, and people mistake that for pedaling. A few years back Pioneer came out with a power meter that showed force vectors around the pedal stroke, every 30 degrees. It was a retail disaster because people saw huge amounts of force straight down at the bottom of the pedal stroke, and they disagreed with the measuring device (yes, people do that) and they returned the power meter (I'm not kidding). The PowerTap P1 pedal app had the same function in it's first generation, but for some reason it's missing in the new version. There's a very simple reason people put that much downward force on the bottom of the pedal stroke - you learned how to stand and walk, and that's your dominant skill set.
At this point most people cite studies that say that there's nothing to gain by trying to change how you pedal. Take a close look at the studies, then look at the 3 stage learning process for motor skills - they're all missing something. The studies are done by telling riders to try to pedal one way or another, that's really not how learning works. Humans can learn motor skills (I've watched myself play piano, I'm pretty sure that's something I wasn't born knowing how to do), coaches need to come up with teaching methods.
Teaching methods mean reverse engineering the pedal stroke to see how power can be applied. To your credit, you did get one thing right, force is not even all the way around the pedal stroke. That would imply that your hip flexors or hamstrings are as strong as your glutes or quads... But then you say that the quad should be active in the down stroke. Take a picture of yourself on a bike with the pedal at 3:00, then tell me how firing the quad is going to generate downward force. The efficiency of that muscle at that point is below 15%, you would be much better off learning how to relax that muscle to get blood flow. Muscle firing sequence is something that can be learned, but again you need a teaching method.
Very well writen!
Very impressive
Muscle recruitment varies depending on circumstance.
The way you speak of poor quad efficiency demonstrates rigid thinking where dynamism is required.
@@neoneherefrom5836 Effective muscle recruitment does depend on circumstances. Climbing hills requires torque which is best supplied by a wide muscle with equal length attachment points - glutes. Leg speed and acceleration are better supplied by a long muscle with a sort attachment point past the fulcrum - quads. What doesn't change is the efficiency of force applied at an offset angle. It's math, the efficiency is SIN(offset angle). If you push straight down when the pedal is at 3:00 (90 degrees) your efficiency is 100%, if you push straight down when the crank is at 6:00 (180 degrees) your efficiency is zero.
I do bike fittings all day long, that's my job. I address pedaling technique and muscle recruitment by stopping the pedal at 3:00 and asking the rider to push down. Almost everybody recruits the quad. The reason is simple, they learned how to walk. Your first motor skill is learning to lift your own body weight while standing. The quad does that perfectly because your hip is over your foot, so extending at the knee lifts your body weight. It doesn't work that way on a bike - try it. If you fire your quad you extend the lower leg from the knee. The force is in the wrong direction. If you pay attention you'll notice that your hip moves back and you pull on the handlebars to hold position. It's force in a direction the pedal isn't moving in, it's wasted.
@@unrestrictedphotography1425 perhaps but again it depends on the circumstance.
Since you’re a bike fitter, I’m assuming your conditions are based on a relaxed steady state all-day ride in the saddle scenario.
Now… calf muscle recruitment on the other hand is certainly a little overrated in my opinion!
Thank you guys! 🙌🏾👍🏾
Gcn show tackles this question with data results from pro trainers and found they were actually as inefficient as your average rider. Takeaway, just ride to your comfort level.
What if you’re comfortable with being uncomfortable. ;)
10:22 No more 'Phil and Paul' :( -U10
Like a piston???no like a connecting rod
row the bike...