Gods and "Giants" in Norse Myth
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- An Old Norse expert discusses the relationship between the gods and the "giants" (jǫtnar) in Norse myth.
Dr. Jackson Crawford is Instructor of Nordic Studies and Nordic Program Coordinator at the University of Colorado Boulder (formerly UC Berkeley and UCLA). He is a historical linguist and an experienced teacher of Old Norse, Modern Icelandic, and Norwegian. Visit JacksonWCrawford.com
Music © I See Hawks in L.A., courtesy of the artist. Visit www.iseehawks.com/
Logo by Elizabeth Porter (snowbringer at gmail).
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Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Poetic Edda: www.amazon.com...
Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Saga of the Volsungs with The Saga of Ragnar Lothbrok: www.amazon.com...
Jackson Crawford’s Patreon page: / norsebysw
Mic sounds great!
Thanks!
FINALLY!!!
This man understand that "Giant" is the wrong word for the Jotnar. For that alone, I love him!
This and the stories of the Greek gods makes me wonder exactly how the cultural/linguistic notion of giants happened.
Jotunn =/= Giant
Titan =/= Giant
Nephilim =/= Giant
Gigantes is the only word that has any etymological connection to Giant, but in the stories I'm sure that "Gigantes" aren't monsters of immense size.
Nearly every culture has stories of actual giants and of beings which outsiders interpret as simply another kind of giant.
Isn't that weird?
theres some Native American lore about giants also, red hair and beards. Heavy facial hair isnt a native american trait
@@efraim3364 that's true. Blue eyes are sometimes prominent.
Just wait, someone will eventually chime in about an exotic theory of pre-Columbian contact saying that these "Giants" of Incan, Mayan, Sioux, ect legend were just lost Vikings.
Gigantes is what you call "Giant" here in Brazil lol
Check out Survie the jive
If Nephilim doesn't mean giant then what is a Nephil? And I agree that it is weird. It's weirder, in my opinion, how similar polytheistic religions are
Jätte does basically mean giant in Swedish, not sure how that came to be if the norse word doesn't really mean that. But it does seem to me that in many of the stories the Jötunn are described as being very big. And local legends about Troll and Jättar often claim that they created geographical features by moving big stones and walking around (creating lakes with their footprints) and stuff.
the stories also say that thor dug his feet through a boat to the ocean floor when fishing for the world serpent. so, the gods by this would still be the same thing.
@@CarlosSanchez-my7zg True enough although in many of the stories you get the feeling that the gods are about the same size as people whereas the giants are bigger. Not universally though so it's a fair point.
@@faarsight and sometimes the jotun apear to change size in the same story.
@@borjesvensson8661 Your point being?
@@faarsight just that them being both big and normal sized is not really a problem.
I like the way that you say these things in an everyday typr of attitude as some narrate in what can omly be described as a sensational way like red top jounalism.
You know, just because the word giant isn't an accurate literal translation of the words Jotunn and Jotnar *doesn't* necessarily mean the Jotnar *aren't* giants; *none* of what Jackson Crawford said here actually *debunks* that idea, all it debunks is them being giants in relation to the *gods* , who, as Jackson Crawford said in *this very* video, have Jotunn blood flowing *strong* in their veins; besides, "giant" is really just a term used to describe something/someone not just *noticeably* , but *extraordinarily* bigger than oneself. Saxon chroniclers for instance, described the Norsemen *themselves* as northern giants because they were much *bigger* than the Saxons (Assassin's Creed Valhalla literally got that *backwards* ). And since humans typically imagine the gods as bigger than themselves, and the Norse gods are mortal, as evidenced by the story of Baldr and how lots of them are destined to perish at Ragnarok, I think it's safe to say that the Aesir and Vanir are Jontar who made themselves a home in the heavens (Ásgardr and Vanaheim), and use Idúnn's apples to keep themselves alive (as evidenced by the story of Idúnn's abduction and rescue, and of the Marriage of Skadí, and by extension, her ascension to Aesirdom); Búri, being an artificial being, probably didn't have any real *genes* to pass onto his children, and so Bór, and by extension, Ódin, Vilí, and Vé, the *first* of the Aesir, were probably born *full* Jotnar.
*Another* example of what I'm talking about can be seen in the *Djinn* ; the words Djinni and Djinn are actually translated as "hidden", in reference to how they're usually *invisible* to pretty much *all* living creatures when they don't wanna be seen ( *wolves* are the exception for some reason); but having read the Arabian Nights, I can tell you that in the stories in which they *do* appear to mortals, they always *tower* over them, with one of the Djinn in Aladdin's stories being big enough to carry the *entirety* of Aladdin's palace on his back. Being *that* big in comparison to humans, the Djinn *would* in fact be giants to us, even though the words Djinni and Djinn don't *literally* translate to giant.
To sum it all up, just because the words Jotunn and Jotnar aren't accurately *literally* translated to giant *doesn't* mean the Jotnar *aren't* giants in relation to us *humans* ; that's why I honestly think a *more* accurate translation of the two words would be "firstborn", as according to the Norse creation story, via Ymir, the Jotnar were the *first* race born into the space that'd become Yggdrasil.
Someone else noted the similarities between Norse and Greek Mythology, and I noticed a striking similarity with Sumerian as well. Thor was stated as being 2/3 giant. Gilgamesh is 2/3 angel in Sumerian mythology as well. It's neat just how many parallels there are between all of the different mythologies even though the people are years and miles apart. Also, I wanted to say that I found the ending very interesting. I never realized how closely related the giants and gods were. You've touched on it a little, but you really made it very clear here.
Old norse language is part of the indo-european tree. And it would make sense that their religion has followed along the same lines. There are parables all the way down the tree.
Finally listened to this in full. This was EDUCATIONAL!
I personally think that there is more meaning to just "sweating" new offspring off in the case of Ymir. I think that it all has to do with Water enabling life.
I dig the intro.
I usually regard "Jotunn" as essentially a kind of "not us." I've noticed that there seem to be several "Jotunn kings" here and there in different stories, never referred to in a definitive "THE king (konungurinn)" manner, but always as simply konungur - A king. So I get the sense that they were believed to be just sort of several tribes who aren't the Aesir or Vanir. The foreigners, the not-us. What's interesting is I'd heard somewhere that Tyr was listed as being the son of two jotnar, so he likely either married into the tribe or was adopted. I'm not sure what his status would be.
I thought jotun is related to e.g. Swedish 'jätte', meaning 'giant' or 'something huge', or 'a lot'.
Do we know the order of Odin's children? Like we know he's married to Frigg but has a handful of kids with other women, Thor with Jǫrð, Heimdall with 9 Jǫtunn women, Tyr with Himir, Víðar with Gríðr, etc. And I'm assuming Baldr and Höðr were born from Frigg?
I'd like very much to hear what you have to say about all the other "not us" races: troll, älvor, dvärgar, tomtar and so on. Much rarer in the eddas than mentions of giants but it could be interesting to hear about them?
He has videos on some of them
@@meginna8354 No they are not translations it is the Swedish cognates from old Norse. Dvärg is from the old Norse dvergr. Älva is from old Norse álfr in feminine form. Rhey are common in Swedish Folk Lore. Trolls are in Norse mythology, Jackson even say so in the video. Trolls seem to be a kind of jotnar, mostly they seem to be the bad type and enemies to Gods and humans. Old Norse:
" Troll kalla mik
trungl sjǫtrungnis,
auðsug jǫtuns,
élsólar bǫl,
vilsinn vǫlu,
vǫrð nafjarðar,
hvélsveg himins -
hvat's troll nema þat?[3]"
@@lindaliljecrona4404 must have missed those clips but I'll have a look.
thank you Dr Crawford, interesting and informative as always
I found you becouse your name is shared with a Hannibal character. Best damn character at that.
Is the translation of jǫtunn as giant likely to be due to the cognate dialect word in English "ettin" meaning giant?
in Danish translation, of the sagas, "jætte" same word, as a young child i heard english and was convinsed that it was a dialekt that i could understand.
Ettin (or ent) and jotunn have the same root word. So is it likely that they meant the same/very similar things? Perhaps giant isn't a perfect translation for ettin either?
@@kayoss2306 ettin have two heads.
Part of the reason the jotunn are translated as giants in English might have to do with the fact that the word "jotunn" has become "jætte"/"jätte" in Danish and Swedish - in Danish it just refers to the beings from Norse mythology, but in Swedish "jätte" is an adjective that literally means "giant" or "big". Don't know what the etymology is there, but I assume the adjective is derived from the name for the mythological beings. As far as I can tell the jotunn are just referred to as "kjempe" in modern Norwegian, which literally means giants. So I'm guessing this might have played into the choice of English translation at some point?
in norwegian we might call them "jotne" too when referring to the jotuns specifically. we use "kjempe" for any other random giants.
@@frostflaggermus oh okay, google translate just failed me there then. I'm sure about the Danish and Swedish though!
Yeah you can blame 12 century English poets for that.
Yeah, as a Swede I am a bit surprised that Jackson Crawford does not mention that the same issue with the English "giant" exists in modern Swedish.
Could there be a connection of some sort with the nordic Same population? Their language isn't related to the modern scandinavian languages I think. Thank you for a most enjoyable channel.
Most excellent and educational. Love this stuff.
There is an artistic tradition of portraying more important figures as bigger. You see it in Egyptian art all the time. The pharoah is always depicted as larger than anyone else. This also happens in children's drawings, implying it is a natural psychological phenomenom. Even in ancient cave art, there are looming horned humanoid figures. Archaeologists do not know if they shaministic figures or depictions of very ancient gods. But there seems to be a connection between larger than life, scary, over powered beings who may control the forces of nature with actually being BIG or at least bigger than mere human mortals. Considering the bias for taller men being seen as better leaders in our culture today, is it really surprising?
A very interesting and engaging revisionist idea..... though I wouldn't dismiss some works that have taken the 'traditional' line as merely populist.
Since Sif as a goddess is associated with the land and earth, and her hair is thought to even be some sort of symbol of fertility, I think it is a possibility that she was a Vanir as well, originally, as these are aspects usually associated with those gods.
Awesome as always
Eh I know this won’t get a response but why not.
I get jotnar not meaning giant, but were the gods and jotnar supposed to be human size? They have stories of gods fitting in the glove of a jotun or Ymir’s brains being used to make the sky. Kinda feel this video didn’t help understand things better. All it did was tell us Jotun doesn’t mean giant
Thank you so much
Thank you! 🌞
Wait, from "high" and beautiful Colorado? ;) Anyway, great video as always.
lol....I know where he filmed this, but I ride for the brand!
X-pthur sounds sort of like X+asur in Vedic/ X+ahur Avestan. Varni like vani in Indian languages (who are vaishya class - one class lower than warrior class with similar marring up/down prescription). Don’t know if these are coincidental.
Hoi, Jackson Sir, uh Dr. I am wondering if you've ever read Bill Linzie's work on ancient Germanic spirituality, specifically his views on Wicca and it's place or lack there of in modern revivalist and reconstructionist practices.
I noted that you often seem, not frustrated with but quite willing to correct common misconceptions.
Would this be one that you would be willing to touch with a ten foot pole?
What do you think is the origin of these different "families" of gods?
Is it rooted in local gods, not unlike how Babylonian gods became more important than other Mesopotamian gods, because the Babylonians became more powerful (some Norse tribe revering their gods, the æsir, became the dominant religious power).
Could it be a distinction between the "sophisticated" people and the "beastlike" others. Also not unlike mesopotamia, where some gods of the folks living outside the fertile crescent were recognized, but seen as more beastlike and less civilized?
Or did it all come from other similair religions like the Greek religion and is it really just an adaptation of stories?
Or is it a combination of all that, or something completely else that created this distinction in "families"?
Interesting, these groups are essentially either social castes or feuding tribes. Not seperate beings
in greek mythology, titans and olympians also pretty much look alike. for norse mythology, maybe better to call them aesir gods, vanir gods and jotnar gods. In dc comics, new genesis has new gods, apokolips also has new gods and they are all similar new gods just living on 2 different places, new gods and old gods also pretty much look the same.
Forgive me. I am new to this so maybe confused. I keep thinking of the Jotunns as big because I hear for example the story where Thor tried to wake up the giant by banging on his head and the giant thought it was acorns falling on his head....but then they talk about giants marrying and fighting and defeating Jotunn....were maybe some large and some regular sized? Did these people also represent the 'tolls' in Norse mythology?
Well in the case of the story where Thor waking up the huge Jotunn, a part of the reason the Jotunn, named Utgardaloki using a alias named Skrymir, is so big is that it is an illusion making himself look tremendously huge. Otherwise the main reason for the Jotnar in most stories coming across as giants is that the Jotnar seem to have a natural gift toward shapeshifting, its just that most Jotnar use this power to just make themselves bigger, especially when fighting the Aesir and Vanir. AT least that that is how I have seen and interpreted it.
Were there actually any giant beings in Norse mythology? Are frost giants and jotunn separate species? I'm still not clear about some of the facts because it seems that though the jotunn were just like aesir and vanir, there were large beings that existed, right? Like from what I've seen Ymir was colossal, yet he was jotunn. I just assumed that the jotunn came in different sizes, some larger than others, and with the amount of interspecies breeding with aesir, the size of the offspring was diminished to a more normal height.
That's all well and good by *WHY* did jotunn get translated to giant?
subscribed
I'm curious why in your translation of the Poetic Edda you still use the word Giant instead of using another more accurate name? Why not just use Jotunn?
Those rivalries among "cousins" and "brothers" could have been paraboles of how all our wars are fratricides, aren't they ?
And all these interpretations of "monsters" versus "gods" , against, one family versus one other branch , are different attempts to justify those fights, according to different times'values..i mean in medieval times when noble families fought for castles and kingdoms those rival families of gods were exactly what they were living, and during colonial imperialisms of 19th and 20th centuries , the hierarchical rivalries among "races" were common knowledges...novadays..those different interpretations could discrib yourself on political issues more than on historical ones...
"tusser" means old gods and "rimtusse" means even older god, gods from earlier than "norrøne" gods, before christ started his European tour..
thank yew jackson. the more u teach the more i realize how much has been lost. take care gare
What do you mean "how much has been lost" ??
Is there a better translation than Giant or could you make up a new english word for the Norse "Giants".
Maybe just call them Jotuns?
I thought Laufey was a Jötunn, and that Loki was fully Jötunn. Where is Laufey marked as an Aesir/Asgardian? I apologize if I sound petulant. I’m just caught off guard. @Jackson Crawford
I'm guessing most of your info on norse mythology stems from Marvel ('asgardian" is a term created by marvel), which is cool and all but Stan Lee took a lot of liberties when writing his comic.
So no Laufey is a goddess of the Aesir which is why Loki took her name instead of his father's because in the world of Norse Mythology, the Jotnar are the lowest tier of god (Aesir -> Vanir -> Jotnar).
Loki is half jotunn. Actually most of the Aesir have Jotunn blood (which is the irony of Norse Mythology because of their hatred for them, its a lot like King Richard who was half French declaring war on France).
Odin himself is half jotunn which makes Thor 3/4 jotunn.
@@8mmkyle865
So, that’s what it’s like to be on this side of an assumption. 😜
No, I’m just more versed in Greek mythology. Norse is new territory.
@@sirwilliam4128 I just assumed because the only place where we see the term "asgardian" is in the Marvel movies and comics.
@@8mmkyle865 slip of the finger.
So what are the jotunn? I mean they just translate to giant in English. I dont understand, they dont look like any giants I've ever heard of.
Montagues and Capulets and...
i think that jotnar are more like eĺementals of chaos or more like ogres.
People hate to believe gods sizes weren't written in feet lmao
That intro was simply "forbausende".
Guys, I need your help. How to translate the word "witcher" (or "hexer" if in German) into Icelandic? Töframaður and galdramaður is for a male wizard/sorcerer, not for male witch... Swedes translate it "häxkarlen" (häx - witch, karlen - man), we can do something like that, but völva means "carrier of a magic staff", it doesn't fit us.
witcher är inte ett riktigt ord utan skapat för TV-spelet tror jag,
@@lindaliljecrona4404 Det er fra en Polsk bokserie.
@@collectorduck9061 Tack, vad heter författaren?
Collector Duck confirms it is fiction so you cant translate it.
@@lindaliljecrona4404
Andrzej Sapkowski
This was one of my favorite subjects it's sad you've stated it many times actually lmao. You should be saying this on a stage to an audience
In 2022, this is his stage, and his voice reaches more people on here than it could carry on the wind swept mountain sides he does it from.
I like to think of the difference between them by comparing it with "Game of Thrones".
The Æsir are the civilized "giants" who lives inside Åsgård. Just like the people in the north.
While the Jotnar who are living outside in Utgard are like the wildlings.
Different people but they are all humans.
Just like the Asir and Jotnar are different people but they are of the same race.
You can compare the bridge Bifrost with the great wall.
Aesir isnt civilized, Look how they treat Baldur
@@Wsp1457Everything is relative.
The lords of westeros were also uncizilized, but civilized compared to the wildlings
If we look at one of the books of Enoch, we find that at least some of the giants were great eaters of everything they could get their hands on. At one point the Earth herself cried out to god to stop all the killing and eating that these giants were doing. So I can see why the word Eater would be translated to giants because that's what they were. Even some Native Americans speak of redheaded giants that would just run into their village grab one of them, then run off and eat them.
Is there a linguistic or historical link between the Norse niflheim in the biblical Nephilim?
No the Abrahamitic religions have no connection to the Norse religion. It's not even Indo-European.
@@lindaliljecrona4404 wasn't sure if the word as it is in both traditions commonly interpreted in both as giant, pointed any underlying reference,
@@michaelreeves6441 Niflheimr was a "place" that was cold and had frozen rivers the opposite of Muspelheim. Between them where the Ginnungagap that was empty Space. It is part of the creation myth. I don't see the resemblance to biblical giants? Of course many cultures have stories about giants so that is probably a ancient myth maybe influenced by Neanderthals? They are not giants but much more robust and strong than modern man.
Looking for a way to ask u a question
Why don't you use the English word "Ettin"?
Bruhh lmaoo idk what it's like to be sister wife of the gods 😂😂
Ah man I wanted to justify my fetish for taller women.
You won't have to eat your hat. It's the same guy.
maybe
This is gonna be a big help when God of War comes out
its a game, and one that i enjoy, but games are not where i look for historical accuracy