China's fleet sailed to east Africa before Europeans in early 15th century. With the largest naval force the west could only mount something in similar scale until world war I, China only traded of tea, silk and porcelain with Africa. There is record shows Chinese brought back a Giraffe from Africa. That tells you how big their boat was. Shortly after China's visit, Protegees came to west cost of Africa with much smaller boat and started the history of European seaborne slave trade. Estimated 12 to 12.8 millions Africans slaves were shipped across Atlantic (plus another 1.2 to 2.4 millions African dies during transport) over a span of 400 years.
A classical Chinese saying goes like this: If you want to be rich, you have to build the road first. China is a case in point, she has just been seriously doing that at home in China as you know.
So as I see China's government tries very hard to pass its own fast growing experience to African countries, the key of Chinese fast growing experience which has pvoven record is 'Build a transportation road first if your villagers want to get rich fast'. Without roads you are going nowhere.
harry ni that makes perfect sense when about it without roads you no path to travel hence everything stays put Chinese proverbs and African proverbs are very life applicable
No, they haven't. And, you were saying in 2020? But yet years later... China did exactly what she said they did. Every last country that dealt with China is in-depth and China owns part of the resources.
The first proven written record of contact between Africa and China dates back to the 14th century Ming Dynasty. Accounts of even earlier contacts have been claimed by even older Chinese dynasties. Africa and China have made contact and traded with each other peacefully for hundreds of years before Europeans came to Africa. When Europeans and Arabs came to Africa en mass, they brought slavery and exploitation. When the Chinese made contact with Africans, it was peaceful and one of trade and respectful coexistence. And the West has the daring to suggest that China is exploiting Africa? Read some history. Africa has always, and will always have the right to choose and structure their relationship with China without force or threats of force. Throughout human history Africa and China have always had a peaceful and respectable relationship. The same thing cannot be said for how Europeans and Arabs have treated Africans.
Thank you for your comment. I'm Chinese, and your comment really brought me into tears. I don't know how many bashing comments (about China) have I read here on RUclips. Before I first used VPN to visit RUclips (it's banned in China), I have no idea that the west see us this way. Our government is demonized, and our people are considered brainwashed morons who endure such a demon's rule --- mostly coming from people who doesn't live in our society, who doesn't know our history at all. I hope more people can read about our history and see China from an objective perspective, with no prejudice and arrogance. After all, we are only a country founded 69 years ago. We know our government is not perfect, it has a lot of problems, but it's heading in the right direction --- to the interests of our people. For those who think we are brainwashed and plain stupid, well, we will leave you in darkness, and time will tell.
Deborah thumps up! You have done your homework very well and especially the way you answered the last question. Ayittey is from Africa but he has a problem of grasping essentials. I am from Kenya and the Chinese have put up a super highway that connects Nairobi to Thika. Economically speaking, this highway benefits Kenya not the Chinese. Intellectual arguments are great but you must cite your sources and Deborah has done that superbly.
You are right bro. It's my first time to see a white intellect speaking the truth on Africa. I'm sure if she continues to be honest God will bless her and she live longer and prosperous. Africa-China relationship oye!!
Asswipe Cornholio i think you may look at it from a bigger picture where connectivity is the hardware internet for a country. And infrastructure does not only refer to highways. If you look at Ethiopia as an example, China also assisted the locals to build their first high-speed railway where United States doesnt even have HDR in existence as an advanced developed country. And the public generally agrees thta HDR is more environmentally friendly than flights. My point is infrastructure is the fundamentals for a country on development. Quite frankly I don't see a point we shouldn't appreciate China on its supports to African countries on building up their own infrastructure which helps them to do businesses. To provide social aids is good but wouldn't it be even better to help Africans in a way that they will be able to develop on their own with this kind of assistance??
Yes Dunncy, the highway benefits Kenya, and the Chinese company did it because they saw a profit. The biggest compliment to Africa is that Chinese look at Africa and see that this is a place where you can make money. The west just sees poverty.
Speaking from my experience and what I've learned from my parents, you don't develop a profitable business by screwing over your customers. If you help them build their businesses, you build up yours.
And, you build a pandemic virus that destroying the world economy including yours. And, you were saying in 2020? But yet years later... China did exactly what she said they did. Every last country that dealt with China is in-depth and China owns part of the resources.
@@Kemet3.0 In case you didn't know this since you 'freedom' media would never told you this, the coronavirus has been discovered in samples from Spain in March 2019.
We all know the Chinese are there to make money. But the point is in the process of digging their gold, the host country has gotten their infrastructures built up for them. Imagine if China suddenly stops trading with them, the roads and railways will still be there! So bottom line, things get done. Just my views as an outsider.
@@tengteng4076 neighbouring countries always hate each other. I live in Canada and I never saw one Canadian spoke nice of the United States even with Americans' presence LOL ( Imagine how angry it has to be to make the average polite , friendly Canadian who says ' Sorry' even when you step on their feet in the nice clubs to be rude lol ! ) The things is that neighbouring countries have more exchanges in goods and people, and politics even lives are too interlinked.
Western aid is drowning in political correctness ("soft issues," "civil society," "gender equality" etc) and nightmarish bureaucracy. In particular, EU-funded projects do nothing else but beating around the bush, trying to teach Africans byzantinism and red tape (in other words, preaching to the converted). So much for good governance. The Chinese, who know very well from their own recent past what poverty and stagnation means, just help countries out by means of putting first things first. If they also benefit on the way, so what?
Deborah is right on with information and data. I hope all so called experts can take a deeper dive like Deborah.... In short, African people are smart to tell what works for them.... they do not need talking heads, they need work done.
For some commenters above, of course Chinese want to get some resources from Africa, we are a huge country, having more sources to energy and agricultural goods are always beneficial. But, if you think that's the main reason why we are there, you are totally wrong. In my opinion, China helps Africa to develops their own infrastructure because the excess capacity issue in our own infrastructure industry. Besides, Africa is a huge potential market once they can get some incentive to get economy into the right track. My own opinion about NGO, I think they are group of people who want to help others, but they are not doing it in the right way. Teach one how to fish, rather than give him a fish, I think everybody knows this. And I guess it should be common sense that infrastructure is one of the prerequisite for a economic growth in the modern sense. So it should an obvious choice, if you want to raise the living standard of those less developed region.
Maybe but who comes first, the people they claim to want to help or they themselves. See how much they pay themselves and how much goes to helping the people, it then becomes clear. Then again, NGOs don't publish their accounts.
no , Most NGOs are either west pawn to promote west values or to pretended in a neutral way to black paint countries the west don't like. and also some charitable are frauds who use Africa poverty to raised money back home for their own consuming. only small amount of raised money come to Africa indeed.
@@critko249 Yeah, NGOS are western constructs. The chinese don't have NGOs, they either have mostly chinese private companies and a few direct gov't-to-gov't deals.
"the motion "Beware of the dragon: Africa should not look to China" at this IQ2 debate at Cadogan Hall in London on 28th November 2011." Sheer racism/propaganda in London.
I love this so much! A few hour ago i came to the same conclusion about china as the first speaker did and now im here through the power of the internet. Because the wests middle class wanted cheap products the companies from europe and U.S.A went to china to "exploit" China for cheap labour and cheap products, which made china rich. The west Companies build lots of factories there and gave them knowledge and jobs. China now "exploits" other poor countries because their middle class wants cheap products. This Process will repeat itself until poverty is dead! Its better to be exploited than to starve to death. I believe Humans are mostly the same but our behavior changes depending in what kind of enviorment we live in. if we have high living standarts we behave more civilized to each other and the richer we are the more energy we can focus on solving problems instead of surviving. Poor people no matter where they live are more likely in my opinion to do crimes because they have less to lose if they are caught. A rich person has lots to lose and thats why they are less likely to commit crimes. Thats why its pointless to point to poor countries or poor people and demand they behave better or else. All the rich countries behaved the same way when they were poorer. I never wrote so much. i feel like im writing in a diary haha. I recently asked myself how can it be that millions of people in my country all have weirdly similar steoreotypes on women or black people or poor countries for example? How can it be that these views are so similar? They have to come from somewhere right? Its impossible that so many different people came to the same conclusions completly on their own! It has to be the Television. Especially the News. Because the new focuses so much on the bad in the world most of the time when they show black people or poor countries they show either a story about drugs, teen pregnancy, gang violence, food stamps, or a starving child with flies on the face, war, and of cource more poverty. I a 20 something person was recently stunned when i saw on youtube for the first time in my life a Neighborhood composed of very rich mostly black people. I have never seen this before and more importently i have never imagined it before. The comments under the video displayed the same surprise. In the past when i thought of africa i had a picture of mostly a desert with some slum and many people in small houses in my mind because thats all i ever saw on the news. A few days ago i saw a video on youtube about some big city of south africa and it pretty much looked like any rich city. Perhaps im dumb idk^^ perhaps all this is obvious to everyone else.
😂😂😂 who ask China to save Africa ? All those debats and energies about China and Africa working together ? Oh my god . Why are Europeans are so frustrating about that ??? What’s up ? Few countries in Africa have everything to offers to China just like China has everything to offers to some Africans countries. Europeans please chill about this ideal . Stop being frustrating.
She never mentioned Africa and China has traded goods for thousands of years for example the Swahili empire of the east coast of Africa ..... Europeans are reletivly new to trade with Africans look how that turned out Africans do well to get rid of European trade altogether.
NGOs also took jobs from locals and destorys local community develppments. (See Dark Star Safari, very enlightening book). Thank God that era IS over. Infrastructure lays foundations for Long term Solutions. NGOs are for short term emergency patches. Common sense, yet until the Chinese came along it didnt occur to donnor countries.
I like the way Europe knows our problems than our self chaina came 5yrs and Africa has changed you have been here 400 yrs what have you done leave our continent with your raticism we have minerals to pay loans keep quiet we dont discus Europe like way u do to Africa
I think I have already stated it "China is doing fair business to Africa". When your saying "stupid", please offer that if I have any words saying "Helping" or w/e. It is a fair business, however, western countries were not doing fair business with Africa. Thats why I was asking " what do you call Western business with Africans, if China's business is called drying up Africa". Again, you used 4 question marks in last post, doubting something I never said before, and your language was nice .
Shame on apologists like this George Ayitteh, Chinese companies have been building infrastructure strategic or not. In Nigeria, they are helping to build a high speed rail-line to facilitate transportation between the largest cities of Lagos and Kano. That is not where Nigeria's oil fields are.So what is your point George Ayitteh? Or you just want to speak ignorantly without knowing the facts and presume just being black was enough credential for us to accept your crass ignorance of the issue.
Southeast Nigeria The point is what's your understanding of strategic alignment. You're example isn't conclusive either and I'm not defending or denigrating Mr. Attiyeh. The important thing is how much control the state governments have exerted in laying out a comprehensive infrastructure plan for itself.
Finally someone speaking according the EVIDENCE, understanding the past ie the results the IMF "so called restructuring " .she also showing there no "debt trap ".Finally she that there two way approach in Sino Afro development perspective as opposed to top down approaches by the west ,IMF and world bank. It's IMPORTANT to have FACT based debate to prevent UNNECESSARY ERRORS AND CONFLICTS. Please remember Iraq, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan as the PRICE of MISUNDERSTANDINGS.
Déborah, you indicated that the salary paid to Africans are based on Chinese pay scale, not European standard. You indicated that « this should be changed ». Are you suggesting European scale of pay for the African workers? If so, the cost of the project is increased correspondingly. Is that what you had in mind?
I'm pretty sure the chinese scale used in africa is based on that particular african nation's pay scale. Just like when american companies set up shop in my hometown in asia, the pay scale is based on the local pay scale not american pay scale. They just added about 25% more than the local pay scale to make their company more attractive than local ones. This is pretty basic, why would you move your company overseas if you have to pay the same american pay scale? It is idiotic, just stay in america.
And, you were saying in 2020? But yet years later... China did exactly what she said they did. Every last country that dealt with China is in-depth and China owns part of the resources.
China needs resource, western countries need it too. however, it depends how to approach the resources. you said Westerner " they don't want to touch that anymore." That is a lie, because, before 2000 Chinese started the major investment, EU and US were the main investors. Plus, investing with extra political/economy conditions( i can offer at least 10 evidence from 1990-2000), and hardly offer promised "help". Unfair business is unfair. Africa's economy improves more than the past 50 yrs
Deborah obviously hasnt been to any of these African countries to say that the Chinese don't bring in all their own labour,as a Zimbabwean I have seen first hand that this is the case.
NGO's goals are not providing infrastructure, but medical/humanitarian aid. Building infrastructure for Africa has never helped them as they cannot help themselves.
+Asswipe Cornholio IF you build a road for two cities who could not communicated before, they could start doing business together and economic booms. Why the hell people live in such a continent with rich raw resources need medical/humanitarian aid from other countries?
+Asswipe Cornholio And well China's economic development benefits so much from infrastructure, I do believe other continents need great infrastructure as well for development.
so building equal business is called "drying up"? What do you call Western countries building business in Africa with political conditions then? or buying forces countries to sell resources at lower prices ? You tell the truth please, if you disagree, then offer your input.
What's the point in buying me the best vehicle in the market, if I no not how to drive it? This motion about China building infrastructures in Africa, to respond to the motion against China's grand strategy of engagement in Africa just does not take this aspect into account. Think it again...
China does not donate infrastructure, but builds it in exchange for installment payments. If the nation cannot meet those payments, then the "strings attached" will become evident. The third world nation containing Chinese built infrastructure will be told that the debt can be negotiated down, if the nation agrees to let the Chinese military build a base there. Or if the nation agrees to let China dig mines or bore oil wells while paying few, if any, royalties. Or if Wawei is given control of the nation's internet. The day will come when China's conduct in the third world will be seen as a 21st century form of imperialism.
If you don't have enough money, experience and technology, but you still want to do business and get rich, is it possible? --So how to make it possible? You need money to employ talented people to get experience and technology, as you know, nothing is free. Then you want money, you could get loans from bank and pay for the interest. --I bet there are so many countries can provide those conditions, so it's African people and government's business to choose whom to cooperate with.
Empires possibly improve over time. The British took over completely. The Americans controlled the economies, imposed coca cola, and YES immediately set up military bases. China has devised a newer, sublter way. The West created globalization, which enabled China to grow. China wants to exert power. But we should the figures of escape from poverty under British, French, American, and now Chinese dominance. The Chinese are possibly the most successful in this regard. The West should recognize that China is no worse an imperial power, and possibly a better one.
If African went back to a life style of farming and nomadic tribes ! Stopped using money and just went back to the stone age it would be fine ! We need to build a wall ! No Islam Christianity Judaism! Just us doing what we did for 200,000 years and 3million since Lucy! You don't need money and roads ! Just crops and a wall☝💡◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻
Listened today? The curtains have been pulled back! Too bad she didn’t really understand the situation or something sinister. Even back then some knew the reality ;) L”Sounds like that local knows;)
Nobody can save Africa. The right policy, strong political will, social, human and infrastructural development of sub-saharan African countries will do. Until African rulers becomes leaders in everything they do, loving one own country (patriotism) and win-win situation. However, observing both criticisms and praises, even when there are underlying suspicion. Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP) of the West/IMF was a total disaster for Nigeria and some other African countries.
Posting bad part of Africa on social media and NGOs is not what we need were is land grab what did you guys do in Zimbabwe country is suffering because of you now you bringing gay rights and Christianity which is not African culture
Take a look "Iowa State University Withdraws Completely from AgriSol Energy’s Investment Deal in Tanzania" What did your American AgriSol do? I can also name another 5
I would also care to note that their role in providing vital and key infrastructure is also dangerous because although it may help with development it also means that it would be easy for them to cripple a nation if they choose to because they built the infrastructure and/or control the supply and development of it. And whilst that might not be so true at present I see no reason why it might not be in the future. In short I don’t trust that the Chinese come with good intentions and it seems to risky to put so much of Africa’s resource, potential and future in their hands.
Once a road is built, I'm not sure how the Chinese are going to control the supply. Unless these are futuristic tarmac built with nanotechnology, where Xi pushes a button and the road lifts up off the ground and wheels itself over the oceans.
@@chicofoxo what I’m talking about is the risk of dependence or should I say over dependence on a nation that creates the infrastructure in another country. As we know politics is fickle and there’s no everlasting relationship but only interests matter. What happens when interests stop aligning? I feel that it would be better to help develop African workforce’s to be able to build and innovate their own infrastructure and industry. That is good intentions with long lasting benefits. They say it’s better to teach a man to fish than give him fish and I think it’s the same in this case. And if u ask okay but what’s in it for the Chinese well I see no reason why they can’t be paid to offer this instead of direct building of infrastructure and I feel this shows better they can be trusted because they’ve come to empower the people not just make money out of our problems.
@@naiajadore8377 Well your reply is a lot more reasoned than your opening comment. Compare how the two statements sound. One is saying that China are doing this with "bad intentions". The second is saying that you would rather they trained the people rather than build the infrastructure themselves, which is fair. However, if you actually look at the evidence as a researcher did at SOAS university, www.soas.ac.uk/idcea/publications/reports/file141857.pdf they found that Chinese firms do train and develop the local workers and pay them fair wages.
@@chicofoxo it’s fine to have a discussion on the internet and not agree but I think basic respect is still needed. I think there’s no need to be rude or condescending and trying to tell me that my second comment is more reasoned as though I lacked reason to comment the first time is extremely rude and condescending. Maybe you didn’t mean to be but it came across that way. And also I never said they came with bad intentions but that I don’t trust that they come with good intentions. To be fair I don’t think that I need to necessarily be fair, personally my interests lie with the development of African nations it’s not my priority if I’m being “fair” to the Chinese. I believe it’s better to be precautionary than reactionary and sometimes gut feelings and facts, data and evidence is not always an indication of what it means to people individually as well as collectively to make choices especially choices such as these that can change the urban fabric, economic playing field and culture of nations. considering the nature of the Chinese economy themselves they very much prefer domestic firms and little interference from the west, but they choose to expand overseas too. Fine probably in the interest of money but also the impression that I have is that they are will to be/do what they don’t even want in their own country? This makes me question why and makes me wary and to be honest my gut feeling about their prescience in Africa isn’t good and it may look benign on the surface but I just don’t believe that. Instead of relying on foreign people I don’t see why we can’t build our own people up. The fact is there’s a big African diaspora out there (as well as in Africa itself) with the talent and skills to be able to do the kinds of things that the Chinese want to do in African. I personally would love to see investment into this. Naturally African governments have their issues which would make this harder to achieve but I think personally it’s the most ideal solution. I would love to see materials, people and profits stay in Africa. This is the vision I have of Africa’s development. Naturally in the world today interdependence is unavoidable but I do hope that Africa and Africans themselves can rise to play a more influential role in their own countries and the political minefield.
I think your logic is flawed. What can China gain if it cripples Africa? It doesn't make sense. China's style is mutual beneficial. What have China ever done in history that showed they will do that? Don't listen to propaganda and watch what they actually do by fact.
This woman is US Propaganda, I will refute her by citing African Speaking Chinese Approval ! (1) Jacob Zuma : "China never slaved Africa, (2) Dambisa Moyo (3) Stephen Chan : "China appreciates Africa & aspiration (4) Dambisa Moyo : "China's pursuit of Resources .... and many more.
He just wants to speak up. But he didn't thought seriously before he spoke. That's why he ended up looking like an .....Well well we would leave it at that.
If China can bring more employment to the local people, they will be loved. The concern with China is they bring most of their own workers. They must train the locals, give them the skill. Then win-win. We all need to put food on the table.
You words disgust me. You are twisting facts and make the ignorance of west sound better. Too easy to point out: 1 use the " Hunger, poverty, incurable decease " as example, every single countries has it, whats the percentage of ppl getting those? With development, a country may not fully solve some problems, such as certain disease, disasters, but it lower the ratio and prevents it.
Ya good job, keep ignoring all the facts I listed, and answer something I didn't even ask unless you think I asked you to describe the intention of west , and keep being using your nice language.
Seems like she's on Chinese pay roll and saying everything positive As if Chinese are perfect I just say employ 85 % labour so they have spending power locally
She said China’s role in Africa is mainly positive but I think it’s rather manipulative and extortionate in some ways also a form of modern slavery not in the same way as the west but no less a form of slavery even if it’s through economic policy and loans
She's the expert and you are not, I'm not sure you watched the same video. She provided facts that you can basically research yourself BUT you will need to have plenty time.
Modern slavery is about stealing Brains from developing countries to work in US high Tech Industry. India for e. g should remain poor so that their best talents continue migrating to US.
China's fleet sailed to east Africa before Europeans in early 15th century. With the largest naval force the west could only mount something in similar scale until world war I, China only traded of tea, silk and porcelain with Africa. There is record shows Chinese brought back a Giraffe from Africa. That tells you how big their boat was.
Shortly after China's visit, Protegees came to west cost of Africa with much smaller boat and started the history of European seaborne slave trade. Estimated 12 to 12.8 millions Africans slaves were shipped across Atlantic (plus another 1.2 to 2.4 millions African dies during transport) over a span of 400 years.
I know. A shameful contrast. Amazing.
Well said! Now they are criticizing/demonizing China for democracy, human rights etc. How hypocritical it can be!
A classical Chinese saying goes like this: If you want to be rich, you have to build the road first. China is a case in point, she has just been seriously doing that at home in China as you know.
She had convinced me by giving facts and evidence!
So as I see China's government tries very hard to pass its own fast growing experience to African countries, the key of Chinese fast growing experience which has pvoven record is 'Build a transportation road first if your villagers want to get rich fast'. Without roads you are going nowhere.
Should be: So far as I see...
harry ni that makes perfect sense when about it without roads you no path to travel hence everything stays put Chinese proverbs and African proverbs are very life applicable
No, they haven't.
And, you were saying in 2020?
But yet years later... China did exactly what she said they did. Every last country that dealt with China is in-depth and China owns part of the resources.
@@Kemet3.0 Stop copy pasting those rubbsish sentences China haters. This is China's century. Realize it, accpet it, and live with it.
The first proven written record of contact between Africa and China dates back to the 14th century Ming Dynasty. Accounts of even earlier contacts have been claimed by even older Chinese dynasties. Africa and China have made contact and traded with each other peacefully for hundreds of years before Europeans came to Africa.
When Europeans and Arabs came to Africa en mass, they brought slavery and exploitation. When the Chinese made contact with Africans, it was peaceful and one of trade and respectful coexistence. And the West has the daring to suggest that China is exploiting Africa? Read some history.
Africa has always, and will always have the right to choose and structure their relationship with China without force or threats of force. Throughout human history Africa and China have always had a peaceful and respectable relationship. The same thing cannot be said for how Europeans and Arabs have treated Africans.
deadbutmoving Well said 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾❤️🌹👌🏽🇬🇲
Thank you for your comment. I'm Chinese, and your comment really brought me into tears. I don't know how many bashing comments (about China) have I read here on RUclips. Before I first used VPN to visit RUclips (it's banned in China), I have no idea that the west see us this way. Our government is demonized, and our people are considered brainwashed morons who endure such a demon's rule --- mostly coming from people who doesn't live in our society, who doesn't know our history at all. I hope more people can read about our history and see China from an objective perspective, with no prejudice and arrogance. After all, we are only a country founded 69 years ago. We know our government is not perfect, it has a lot of problems, but it's heading in the right direction --- to the interests of our people. For those who think we are brainwashed and plain stupid, well, we will leave you in darkness, and time will tell.
Way before that 1st century BC is the first case of African and Chinese relations.
Deborah thumps up! You have done your homework very well and especially the way you answered the last question. Ayittey is from Africa but he has a problem of grasping essentials. I am from Kenya and the Chinese have put up a super highway that connects Nairobi to Thika. Economically speaking, this highway benefits Kenya not the Chinese. Intellectual arguments are great but you must cite your sources and Deborah has done that superbly.
less than 1 in a thousand Africans own cars
You are right bro. It's my first time to see a white intellect speaking the truth on Africa. I'm sure if she continues to be honest God will bless her and she live longer and prosperous. Africa-China relationship oye!!
+Dunncy11 They have to "speak truth" sometimes. Otherwise they look fake and silly will have a hard time to sell their boko harum to Africans.
Asswipe Cornholio i think you may look at it from a bigger picture where connectivity is the hardware internet for a country. And infrastructure does not only refer to highways. If you look at Ethiopia as an example, China also assisted the locals to build their first high-speed railway where United States doesnt even have HDR in existence as an advanced developed country. And the public generally agrees thta HDR is more environmentally friendly than flights. My point is infrastructure is the fundamentals for a country on development. Quite frankly I don't see a point we shouldn't appreciate China on its supports to African countries on building up their own infrastructure which helps them to do businesses. To provide social aids is good but wouldn't it be even better to help Africans in a way that they will be able to develop on their own with this kind of assistance??
Yes Dunncy, the highway benefits Kenya, and the Chinese company did it because they saw a profit. The biggest compliment to Africa is that Chinese look at Africa and see that this is a place where you can make money. The west just sees poverty.
Speaking from my experience and what I've learned from my parents, you don't develop a profitable business by screwing over your customers. If you help them build their businesses, you build up yours.
USA in a nutshell
We just built hospitals, schools, roads, railways, sell our products, buy their products. and treat them as human
And, you build a pandemic virus that destroying the world economy including yours.
And, you were saying in 2020?
But yet years later... China did exactly what she said they did. Every last country that dealt with China is in-depth and China owns part of the resources.
@@Kemet3.0 In case you didn't know this since you 'freedom' media would never told you this, the coronavirus has been discovered in samples from Spain in March 2019.
We all know the Chinese are there to make money. But the point is in the process of digging their gold, the host country has gotten their infrastructures built up for them. Imagine if China suddenly stops trading with them, the roads and railways will still be there! So bottom line, things get done. Just my views as an outsider.
China is a very bad neighbor.. ask china's surrounding neighbors, sure they will agree...
@@tengteng4076 neighbouring countries always hate each other. I live in Canada and I never saw one Canadian spoke nice of the United States even with Americans' presence LOL ( Imagine how angry it has to be to make the average polite , friendly Canadian who says ' Sorry' even when you step on their feet in the nice clubs to be rude lol ! ) The things is that neighbouring countries have more exchanges in goods and people, and politics even lives are too interlinked.
You don’t know shyt about all that .
Pessimiste crazy ass . 😂😂😂😂.
A heart that loves China lead me here.
I sincerely hope that African friends will be lifted out of poverty in this century.
mutual benefits, nobody is forcing africa to love china, it just works to their benefit
Jealousy is killing the western
Western aid is drowning in political correctness ("soft issues," "civil society," "gender equality" etc) and nightmarish bureaucracy. In particular, EU-funded projects do nothing else but beating around the bush, trying to teach Africans byzantinism and red tape (in other words, preaching to the converted). So much for good governance. The Chinese, who know very well from their own recent past what poverty and stagnation means, just help countries out by means of putting first things first. If they also benefit on the way, so what?
Deborah is right on with information and data. I hope all so called experts can take a deeper dive like Deborah.... In short, African people are smart to tell what works for them.... they do not need talking heads, they need work done.
Very intelligent lady speaking and convincing with facts. Facts, numbers, tangibles, and most probably visits to these countries.
For some commenters above, of course Chinese want to get some resources from Africa, we are a huge country, having more sources to energy and agricultural goods are always beneficial.
But, if you think that's the main reason why we are there, you are totally wrong. In my opinion, China helps Africa to develops their own infrastructure because the excess capacity issue in our own infrastructure industry. Besides, Africa is a huge potential market once they can get some incentive to get economy into the right track.
My own opinion about NGO, I think they are group of people who want to help others, but they are not doing it in the right way. Teach one how to fish, rather than give him a fish, I think everybody knows this. And I guess it should be common sense that infrastructure is one of the prerequisite for a economic growth in the modern sense. So it should an obvious choice, if you want to raise the living standard of those less developed region.
But of course NGOs have their own limitations , I think they are doing meaningful things within their capabilities.
Well said...
Maybe but who comes first, the people they claim to want to help or they themselves. See how much they pay themselves and how much goes to helping the people, it then becomes clear. Then again, NGOs don't publish their accounts.
no , Most NGOs are either west pawn to promote west values or to pretended in a neutral way to black paint countries the west don't like. and also some charitable are frauds who use Africa poverty to raised money back home for their own consuming. only small amount of raised money come to Africa indeed.
@@critko249 Yeah, NGOS are western constructs. The chinese don't have NGOs, they either have mostly chinese private companies and a few direct gov't-to-gov't deals.
A very intelligent scholar. I love this woman :)
I'm very happy to hear the right things in stead of the victim roll. It's the 4th generation of leadership and diasporas will make a great impact.
AFRICANS AND THE ENTIRE CONTINENT SHOULD BE VERY WATCHFUL, AND WISE TO UNDERSTAND WHATEVER THEY'RE SIGNING ☝ FOR
"the motion "Beware of the dragon: Africa should not look to China" at this IQ2 debate at Cadogan Hall in London on 28th November 2011."
Sheer racism/propaganda in London.
I love this so much! A few hour ago i came to the same conclusion about china as the first speaker did and now im here through the power of the internet.
Because the wests middle class wanted cheap products the companies from europe and U.S.A went to china to "exploit" China for cheap labour and cheap products, which made china rich. The west Companies build lots of factories there and gave them knowledge and jobs. China now "exploits" other poor countries because their middle class wants cheap products. This Process will repeat itself until poverty is dead! Its better to be exploited than to starve to death.
I believe Humans are mostly the same but our behavior changes depending in what kind of enviorment we live in. if we have high living standarts we behave more civilized to each other and the richer we are the more energy we can focus on solving problems instead of surviving. Poor people no matter where they live are more likely in my opinion to do crimes because they have less to lose if they are caught. A rich person has lots to lose and thats why they are less likely to commit crimes. Thats why its pointless to point to poor countries or poor people and demand they behave better or else. All the rich countries behaved the same way when they were poorer.
I never wrote so much. i feel like im writing in a diary haha. I recently asked myself how can it be that millions of people in my country all have weirdly similar steoreotypes on women or black people or poor countries for example? How can it be that these views are so similar? They have to come from somewhere right? Its impossible that so many different people came to the same conclusions completly on their own! It has to be the Television. Especially the News. Because the new focuses so much on the bad in the world most of the time when they show black people or poor countries they show either a story about drugs, teen pregnancy, gang violence, food stamps, or a starving child with flies on the face, war, and of cource more poverty. I a 20 something person was recently stunned when i saw on youtube for the first time in my life a Neighborhood composed of very rich mostly black people. I have never seen this before and more importently i have never imagined it before. The comments under the video displayed the same surprise. In the past when i thought of africa i had a picture of mostly a desert with some slum and many people in small houses in my mind because thats all i ever saw on the news. A few days ago i saw a video on youtube about some big city of south africa and it pretty much looked like any rich city. Perhaps im dumb idk^^ perhaps all this is obvious to everyone else.
😂😂😂 who ask China to save Africa ? All those debats and energies about China and Africa working together ? Oh my god . Why are Europeans are so frustrating about that ??? What’s up ? Few countries in Africa have everything to offers to China just like China has everything to offers to some Africans countries.
Europeans please chill about this ideal . Stop being frustrating.
She never mentioned Africa and China has traded goods for thousands of years for example the Swahili empire of the east coast of Africa ..... Europeans are reletivly new to trade with Africans look how that turned out Africans do well to get rid of European trade altogether.
NGOs also took jobs from locals and destorys local community develppments. (See Dark Star Safari, very enlightening book). Thank God that era IS over. Infrastructure lays foundations for Long term Solutions. NGOs are for short term emergency patches. Common sense, yet until the Chinese came along it didnt occur to donnor countries.
Very good-you deserve appreciation-you are quite impartial...you help the world see the truth....
I like the way Europe knows our problems than our self chaina came 5yrs and Africa has changed you have been here 400 yrs what have you done leave our continent with your raticism we have minerals to pay loans keep quiet we dont discus Europe like way u do to Africa
Western JOKERS. Mind your own business
I think I have already stated it "China is doing fair business to Africa". When your saying "stupid", please offer that if I have any words saying "Helping" or w/e. It is a fair business, however, western countries were not doing fair business with Africa. Thats why I was asking " what do you call Western business with Africans, if China's business is called drying up Africa". Again, you used 4 question marks in last post, doubting something I never said before, and your language was nice .
Shame on apologists like this George Ayitteh, Chinese companies have been building infrastructure strategic or not. In Nigeria, they are helping to build a high speed rail-line to facilitate transportation between the largest cities of Lagos and Kano. That is not where Nigeria's oil fields are.So what is your point George Ayitteh? Or you just want to speak ignorantly without knowing the facts and presume just being black was enough credential for us to accept your crass ignorance of the issue.
Southeast Nigeria The point is what's your understanding of strategic alignment. You're example isn't conclusive either and I'm not defending or denigrating Mr. Attiyeh. The important thing is how much control the state governments have exerted in laying out a comprehensive infrastructure plan for itself.
Finally someone speaking according the EVIDENCE, understanding the past ie the results the IMF "so called restructuring " .she also showing there no "debt trap ".Finally she that there two way approach in Sino Afro development perspective as opposed to top down approaches by the west ,IMF and world bank.
It's IMPORTANT to have FACT based debate to prevent UNNECESSARY ERRORS AND CONFLICTS. Please remember Iraq, Libya, Syria and Afghanistan as the PRICE of MISUNDERSTANDINGS.
very nice speech! concise and insightful.
Totally agree with you.
Déborah, you indicated that the salary paid to Africans are based on Chinese pay scale, not European standard. You indicated that « this should be changed ». Are you suggesting European scale of pay for the African workers? If so, the cost of the project is increased correspondingly. Is that what you had in mind?
I'm pretty sure the chinese scale used in africa is based on that particular african nation's pay scale. Just like when american companies set up shop in my hometown in asia, the pay scale is based on the local pay scale not american pay scale. They just added about 25% more than the local pay scale to make their company more attractive than local ones. This is pretty basic, why would you move your company overseas if you have to pay the same american pay scale? It is idiotic, just stay in america.
And Angola has once again returned to OPEC. Its oil export was impartial , exploited compared to the middle East without its fair market value.
And, you were saying in 2020?
But yet years later... China did exactly what she said they did. Every last country that dealt with China is in-depth and China owns part of the resources.
deep detail observation.. deborah is the best
China needs resource, western countries need it too. however, it depends how to approach the resources. you said Westerner " they don't want to touch that anymore." That is a lie, because, before 2000 Chinese started the major investment, EU and US were the main investors. Plus, investing with extra political/economy conditions( i can offer at least 10 evidence from 1990-2000), and hardly offer promised "help". Unfair business is unfair. Africa's economy improves more than the past 50 yrs
But when will Ethnic Africans themselfs be economically and technologically better and successful in Africa?
Deborah obviously hasnt been to any of these African countries to say that the Chinese don't bring in all their own labour,as a Zimbabwean I have seen first hand that this is the case.
It's just business.
NGO's goals are not providing infrastructure, but medical/humanitarian aid. Building infrastructure for Africa has never helped them as they cannot help themselves.
+Asswipe Cornholio IF you build a road for two cities who could not communicated before, they could start doing business together and economic booms. Why the hell people live in such a continent with rich raw resources need medical/humanitarian aid from other countries?
+Asswipe Cornholio And well China's economic development benefits so much from infrastructure, I do believe other continents need great infrastructure as well for development.
Europe always talk about agriculture everytime Africa comes up.
They want Africans to produce food them.
so building equal business is called "drying up"? What do you call Western countries building business in Africa with political conditions then? or buying forces countries to sell resources at lower prices ? You tell the truth please, if you disagree, then offer your input.
Civil liberties and certain freedoms are not good in China, when abroad, the dragon has learnt never mess around with the local snake. Chinese wisdom.
Smart people always
Who slept on the streets without homes
i agreed
How dare you two lower races doing deals without us the supperior race supervising! They say.
What has all these got to do with chinese development in Africa
What's the point in buying me the best vehicle in the market, if I no not how to drive it? This motion about China building infrastructures in Africa, to respond to the motion against China's grand strategy of engagement in Africa just does not take this aspect into account. Think it again...
China does not donate infrastructure, but builds it in exchange for installment payments. If the nation cannot meet those payments, then the "strings attached" will become evident. The third world nation containing Chinese built infrastructure will be told that the debt can be negotiated down, if the nation agrees to let the Chinese military build a base there. Or if the nation agrees to let China dig mines or bore oil wells while paying few, if any, royalties. Or if Wawei is given control of the nation's internet.
The day will come when China's conduct in the third world will be seen as a 21st century form of imperialism.
Our only vulnerability is our current leadership.
@@taq1238 Who is "our", Ms Marcia?
@Maria_jikezee_sarungi "Strings attached..."
I can see your frustration as a westerner.
@@Rafaelnk21 I live neither in Europe nor in North America.
If you don't have enough money, experience and technology, but you still want to do business and get rich, is it possible?
--So how to make it possible?
You need money to employ talented people to get experience and technology, as you know, nothing is free. Then you want money, you could get loans from bank and pay for the interest.
--I bet there are so many countries can provide those conditions, so it's African people and government's business to choose whom to cooperate with.
Empires possibly improve over time. The British took over completely. The Americans controlled the economies, imposed coca cola, and YES immediately set up military bases. China has devised a newer, sublter way. The West created globalization, which enabled China to grow. China wants to exert power. But we should the figures of escape from poverty under British, French, American, and now Chinese dominance. The Chinese are possibly the most successful in this regard. The West should recognize that China is no worse an imperial power, and possibly a better one.
If African went back to a life style of farming and nomadic tribes ! Stopped using money and just went back to the stone age it would be fine ! We need to build a wall ! No Islam Christianity Judaism! Just us doing what we did for 200,000 years and 3million since Lucy! You don't need money and roads ! Just crops and a wall☝💡◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻◻
Listened today? The curtains have been pulled back! Too bad she didn’t really understand the situation or something sinister. Even back then some knew the reality ;) L”Sounds like that local knows;)
Nobody can save Africa. The right policy, strong political will, social, human and infrastructural development of sub-saharan African countries will do. Until African rulers becomes leaders in everything they do, loving one own country (patriotism) and win-win situation. However, observing both criticisms and praises, even when there are underlying suspicion. Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP) of the West/IMF was a total disaster for Nigeria and some other African countries.
Posting bad part of Africa on social media and NGOs is not what we need were is land grab what did you guys do in Zimbabwe country is suffering because of you now you bringing gay rights and Christianity which is not African culture
Take a look "Iowa State University Withdraws Completely from AgriSol Energy’s Investment Deal in Tanzania"
What did your American AgriSol do? I can also name another 5
honesty rears its ugly head
really............?
I would also care to note that their role in providing vital and key infrastructure is also dangerous because although it may help with development it also means that it would be easy for them to cripple a nation if they choose to because they built the infrastructure and/or control the supply and development of it. And whilst that might not be so true at present I see no reason why it might not be in the future. In short I don’t trust that the Chinese come with good intentions and it seems to risky to put so much of Africa’s resource, potential and future in their hands.
Once a road is built, I'm not sure how the Chinese are going to control the supply. Unless these are futuristic tarmac built with nanotechnology, where Xi pushes a button and the road lifts up off the ground and wheels itself over the oceans.
@@chicofoxo what I’m talking about is the risk of dependence or should I say over dependence on a nation that creates the infrastructure in another country. As we know politics is fickle and there’s no everlasting relationship but only interests matter. What happens when interests stop aligning? I feel that it would be better to help develop African workforce’s to be able to build and innovate their own infrastructure and industry. That is good intentions with long lasting benefits. They say it’s better to teach a man to fish than give him fish and I think it’s the same in this case. And if u ask okay but what’s in it for the Chinese well I see no reason why they can’t be paid to offer this instead of direct building of infrastructure and I feel this shows better they can be trusted because they’ve come to empower the people not just make money out of our problems.
@@naiajadore8377 Well your reply is a lot more reasoned than your opening comment. Compare how the two statements sound. One is saying that China are doing this with "bad intentions". The second is saying that you would rather they trained the people rather than build the infrastructure themselves, which is fair. However, if you actually look at the evidence as a researcher did at SOAS university, www.soas.ac.uk/idcea/publications/reports/file141857.pdf they found that Chinese firms do train and develop the local workers and pay them fair wages.
@@chicofoxo it’s fine to have a discussion on the internet and not agree but I think basic respect is still needed. I think there’s no need to be rude or condescending and trying to tell me that my second comment is more reasoned as though I lacked reason to comment the first time is extremely rude and condescending. Maybe you didn’t mean to be but it came across that way. And also I never said they came with bad intentions but that I don’t trust that they come with good intentions. To be fair I don’t think that I need to necessarily be fair, personally my interests lie with the development of African nations it’s not my priority if I’m being “fair” to the Chinese. I believe it’s better to be precautionary than reactionary and sometimes gut feelings and facts, data and evidence is not always an indication of what it means to people individually as well as collectively to make choices especially choices such as these that can change the urban fabric, economic playing field and culture of nations. considering the nature of the Chinese economy themselves they very much prefer domestic firms and little interference from the west, but they choose to expand overseas too. Fine probably in the interest of money but also the impression that I have is that they are will to be/do what they don’t even want in their own country? This makes me question why and makes me wary and to be honest my gut feeling about their prescience in Africa isn’t good and it may look benign on the surface but I just don’t believe that. Instead of relying on foreign people I don’t see why we can’t build our own people up. The fact is there’s a big African diaspora out there (as well as in Africa itself) with the talent and skills to be able to do the kinds of things that the Chinese want to do in African. I personally would love to see investment into this. Naturally African governments have their issues which would make this harder to achieve but I think personally it’s the most ideal solution. I would love to see materials, people and profits stay in Africa. This is the vision I have of Africa’s development. Naturally in the world today interdependence is unavoidable but I do hope that Africa and Africans themselves can rise to play a more influential role in their own countries and the political minefield.
I think your logic is flawed. What can China gain if it cripples Africa? It doesn't make sense. China's style is mutual beneficial. What have China ever done in history that showed they will do that?
Don't listen to propaganda and watch what they actually do by fact.
Is natural resource yall want ..go and dig it up in yall own country
17:59 man face lady sound.Woooow
This woman is US Propaganda, I will refute her by citing African Speaking Chinese Approval ! (1) Jacob Zuma : "China never slaved Africa, (2) Dambisa Moyo (3) Stephen Chan : "China appreciates Africa & aspiration (4) Dambisa Moyo : "China's pursuit of Resources .... and many more.
Did you watch the video? She's talking about how China is helping Africa. Are you a moron or something?
He just wants to speak up. But he didn't thought seriously before he spoke. That's why he ended up looking like an .....Well well we would leave it at that.
If China can bring more employment to the local people, they will be loved. The concern with China is they bring most of their own workers. They must train the locals, give them the skill. Then win-win. We all need to put food on the table.
You words disgust me. You are twisting facts and make the ignorance of west sound better. Too easy to point out:
1 use the " Hunger, poverty, incurable decease " as example, every single countries has it, whats the percentage of ppl getting those? With development, a country may not fully solve some problems, such as certain disease, disasters, but it lower the ratio and prevents it.
Ya good job, keep ignoring all the facts I listed, and answer something I didn't even ask unless you think I asked you to describe the intention of west , and keep being using your nice language.
👍
中国的错误是中国本身的样子。我怀疑中国即便民主化后仍然是西方的敌人，更别提任何人都不可能打到对手满意的改革。非洲没有发展自己的语言文字，更没有自己的国家战略文化体系，一切都是沿用英法语系。没有独立的思想，只能用别人的思维来思考，这才是非洲未来最受制约的地方。
A lot talking, time have gone , Good question, what is NGO look before. So Africa come waiting for the NGO?? Before we eat ?? Very funny words
Another good addition: ruclips.net/video/P5uzxV8ub9k/видео.html
China has good PR and sure spends a lot of money on it.
Woman you're fool u.s.a Europe pls lieve us Africa alone okay we china
women you're fool
its recolonizing africa.
Aaaaa
Seems like she's on Chinese pay roll and saying everything positive
As if Chinese are perfect
I just say employ 85 % labour so they have spending power locally
Indian like you is too easy to spot lol
You're watching a debate. I say this because you seem to be taking this out of context.
She said China’s role in Africa is mainly positive but I think it’s rather manipulative and extortionate in some ways also a form of modern slavery not in the same way as the west but no less a form of slavery even if it’s through economic policy and loans
She's the expert and you are not, I'm not sure you watched the same video. She provided facts that you can basically research yourself BUT you will need to have plenty time.
Modern slavery is about stealing Brains from developing countries to work in US high Tech Industry. India for e. g should remain poor so that their best talents continue migrating to US.
modern slavery is when chinese build road