Hey bookworms! A couple of corrections: First, I do know that it is Lois Bujold, not Louis. Sometimes it just isn't worth starting over because of a simple speaking error. Also, I realize I say "Featherstone" at the end instead of "Gladstone." My bad. I was talking to someone on the Discord about Preacher and got the names goofed up. Thanks!
I'm glad you're honest there after the positive parts. Bro hyperion cantos sucks. I think too many people hype it up. It has a few good twists and turns but other than that it sucks, everything sucks, his prose sucks, the way he described things suck, the words he makes up suck, his pretentious poetry stuff and wannabe theology sucks, his conclusions to the big mysteries are the absolute worst. Why the f does.no one mention that one of the conclusions is "it's all love, the void that binds is love" The void.that binds in and ofitself js idiotic
Kassad's death was completely meaningless. His story was cool but then turned completely whack at the end. His romance plot was absolutely hilarious. These people have spoken like 2 minutes with each other max'm combined throughout both books. I think Simmons was also trying to.make a statement. With Kassad being Palestinian and Rachel / Moneta Jewish. But if you pay attention, while he extensively focuses on the religion of the priest's (makes sense) and of sol Weintraub. Never on Kassad. Who has Fedmahn as a name ... which sounds more German. And in the end of the second book. Simmons recounts all the planets and how great they are doing (imagine somewhere over the rainbow playing on the background, played by a cnt wearing a tricore...who the f does that, who wears a tricore) but when it comes to the 3 Muslim planets. It's all nuclear Jihad, Iranian radical Shia Mollah uprisings that genocide the Sunni population and basically just creates a more radical space Iran. He also loves to just stick jihad to stuff. "Nuclear Jihad". This dude was at one point somewhat open-minded but had all the biases you can imagine. Seems to have gotten a lot worse over time.though
@@godofchaoskhorne5043 I would state otherwise. The Kassad's fight with Shrike is super awesome. Espiecally that Moneta is in the fight with him. The "mussle" (BTW he is kind of just muscle) and mysterious woman from future bringing silver suit which can manipulate time. Later on we know more about her.
Mike, I totally agree with you here. When I finished "The Fall of Hyperion" two days ago, I was unsure how I felt. The book has great things, mainly the worldbuilding and the final twists in the Hegemony x Ousters x TechnoCore war. Dan Simmons's prose is excellent, the character work is great, and the plot, in general, keeps getting more interesting with every page turn. However, a lot of stuff is also set up but never pays off (or does it poorly). A lot of things don't seem to go anywhere. There are plenty of moments in the book that I don't know why they are there. Many answers are left unanswered, and although part of them seems to be deliberately a mystery and that's ok, many more were intrinsic to the main plot and were still badly explained if explained at all. The third act alone, however exciting, felt very rushed and left many things badly concluded. I'm still going to read Endymion and finish the series sooner or later, but I can't escape the disappointment regarding "The Fall of Hyperion".
I understand your frustrations with the book. I think I understand the change in focus based on Simmons inspirations for the novels. Your star wars analogy was hilarious! I think the reason that I loved it so much was that I wasn't expecting the focus on the war and the technocore. I thought it was going to be a straight continuation with the main characters. To each their own, I guess.
Fall of Hyperion is almost as good as Hyperion but the structure/style of Hyperion is unbeatable. It's a tough act to follow but a very satisfying conclusion.
Interesting because for me the second book is so much more epic and mind blowing that it makes the first book in retrospect appear just like a nice little prequel story like with the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
I’m over half way through “The Fall of Hyperion” and I love it, can’t say it’s better or worse but am impressed with the expanding world building with this book and the revelations the pilgrims experience a d think it’s a great sequel 📚😷🙏
The Canterbury Tales structure of Hyperion was so cool to me as a teenager when I was initially read it. I don't think I ever finished the series, but I remember having a fantastic time reading the first one. I also had a small psychedelic phase in my mid 20's and I thought about the Shrike a lot.
For me, I can't think of Hyperion and Fall as two different books. Fall of Hyperion is simply a longer, 7th narrative POV that falls in with the same framework as the original book, I feel it simply zooms out into the current time rather than zooming in on the past. Not the least bit disappointing for me, love them both.
I felt like this book fleshed out the universe created in Hyperion. We now knew the characters from Hyperion (except maybe Father Hoyt). So now we see the completion of their story and it's put in its fuller context. I think maybe the pilgrims' stories could have been completed in the first novel, and Gladstone and Severn could have been the second story, with references to the pilgrims. But that would have made the two books more standalone. Illium is good: I read it last summer. And I just finished rereading the next two novels in the Cantos. They really add a lot to the universe.
I just finished with Fall of Hyperion and it automatically became my favourite Sci-Fi series of all time. There is no single weak character in the books, the dialogue is top notch. It has cyberpunk, it has somewhat gothic, Warhammer-esque elements; epic battles and giant spaceships that can obliterate entire planets. It is full of heartbreaking moments. It has The Shrike - one of the most terrifying creatures ever written; discussions on philosophy, religion and artificial intelligence. It's a story about friendship, sacrifice, facing the impossible and so much more. It's so relevant that it feels as though it's written yesterday. For me, I liked the books more than Dune. Who cares about nitpicking when the book is just so good, once you immerse yourself completely in it. Not reading the two Hyperion books is like being a Fantasy fan and not reading The Lord Of The RIngs.
This really helped thank you, because I've literally just finished book 2 and i was so lost and confused for most of this book, so this explanation really helped me to understand this book better! ❤
The Fall of Hyperion is like if the second half of the Lord of the Rings was told by the eyes of a random hobbit in the Shire: he does his own things and from time to time he hears what's going on with Sauron. Probably still good but it's just not what a reader wants.
Really interesting how you see the second book. For me the first book was basically just a setup for the second one and I loved every single page of the Fall of Hyperion and how it got just more and more nuts and I could not put it down for a second.
I really liked the book, but i think you are spot on in your review. I loved the expanding of the universe and the politics and the AI and all that jazz. In fact i enjoyed it so much so, i ranked Fall ahead of Hyperion when I read them back to back. I think if you are into the hardcore techno sci-fi, Fall will suit you well.
Remember in in Hyperion when Martin started getting frustrated in how everyone started their story with a story about someone else? That's how The Hyperion Cantos is. It starts out with the story of the final pilgrimage, but that's not really what the overall story is about.
Hey Mike! I have been following you for quite some time and read what you recommend. So I picked up this series. I was surprised at your review…when you read the book as a whole it has one theme and blends perfectly well. And its not the Shrike. Its not disjointed at all but brilliantly put together as a story about the human race as a species. The main character doesn’t shift to Keats but the possibility that humankind had lost itself in its creation of AI. To think this was written in what..the 90’s can be seen as almost prophetic. Give it another read my friend!
Mike, I appreciate that you make it clear that these reviews are your opinion and you don't discourage anyone from reading them and you make that clear too. It just feels like a lot of book reviewers don't make that clear and I genuinely appreciate that.
I hear people tell me a lot "Oh, I was going to read that but ___ booktuber's review made me decide not to." I want to reassure that this isn't what I'd like my channel to be.
Finally diving into book two today. I've been so nervous because I feel like you and I have similar feelings about a lot of books. So I'm hoping since I've set realistic expectations, I'll be able to enjoy it.
So, I finished this book like an hour ago. I haven't watched the video yet because I wanted to form my opinions beforehand. I figured I'd share them here first, then watch the video later and come back here to say what I think about what you said. I'm going to put my thoughts after watching the video here so the spoilers I gave are still the last part of the comment. AFTER WATCHING So, I agree with all the good by I acutally liked the structure, as I said before. I think saying that the main 7 are relegated to cameos is a bit unfair, since we do get a ton of chapters in from their perspective, and we do see almost everything, including a lot of stuff that was happening at the same time but in different places. I do agree that the final showdown with the Shrike was a let down, though. And a big one. BEFORE WATCHING First, I want to say that I really enjoyed the first almost 90% of the book. I was very interested in all storylines and I thought that Severn was a genius solution to the problem Dan Simmons would eventually come to when trying to tell all stories if he was sticking to one POV (which he did, technically). I loved the philosophical themes, the machinations (pun very much intended) of the Core, the whole cybrid deal and such. I loved all of this so much that at, like, 85% of the book, I was ready to give it 5 stars, a 10/10 grade and determine the first part of Hyperion Cantos (Hyperion + Fall of Hyperion) one of, if not the, best books I've read. And then 2 things happened. Spoilers ahead, folks. 1 - Brawne Lamia. What was that? Just a few chapters before, I was happy that Kassad hadn't bested the Shrike in a 1v1, because it wouldn't make sense to me, even with the skinsuit. And then she just flies and turns the Shrike into glass????? 2 - Johnny saving Rachel. I didn't really like him being able to just tell everyone what to do and avoid an even bigger catastrophe, but it was fine to me because it was somewhat prepared through the whole book. First, he could see stuff that was happening to everyone when he dreamed. Then, he was able to summon the visions while awake. Later, he could communicate as well. Ok, fine. But releasing the Erg, merging with it, taking Rachel from the Shrike's arms while conveniently he couldn't fight back was too much to me. Aside from these to 2 things, I really liked the book. I'd give it a 9/10 or 4 to 4.5 stars, I think
I always felt that the first book was a setup to something else. Then the second book really got into the underlining storyarcs and it really hooked me up. It is very intelligent writing and it all makes sense in the end, loved it. I actuallyy like the second book more because of that. Here we see things comming together and the story gets explained. I read the books twice and I REALLY loved them. To me it's not two books, it's one book. (my actual copy is one book) So yeah to me the strength of the series is the underlining storyarc, that is what is't all about. The pilgrim stories are a setup to something else.
What is interesting is that the story structure for book two makes sense after reading The last 2 books. He is an interesting writer. I loved all the Books.
I enjoyed The Fall of Hyperion even more than Hyperion but they are quite different so I see why fans can be divided. I enjoyed the world building and the writing in Hyperion but I wanted more plot progression in the current timeline and to learn more about the Shrike and the Time Tombs. The Fall of Hyperion started a little slowly but once it got going it really delivered for me. The way it expanded on the TechnoCore, the Void Which Binds, the Ousters, and the Templar Brotherhood was all fascinating to me. I think it provided satisfying conclusions to each of the travelers' stories as well. Some of them hit me really hard. I didn't mind spending time with Gladstone and Severn. Gladstone was a fantastic character and her storyline connected the importance of the pilgrims to the rest of the universe, and Severn was a clever way to connect the two as well as continuing to weave the influence of Keats into the narrative. I understand that the Shrike confrontation wasn't entirely clear. I would have preferred something more concrete but that's not really the type of writer Simmons is. There are hints provided in Endymion and The Rise of Endymion but there's never a conclusive explanation. I enjoyed Endymion and The Rise of Endymion as well but they are quite separate. The main characters are different and the plot is new. The duologies are definitely Book 1A and 1B then 2A and 2B. If you loved Hyperion but didn't enjoy The Fall of Hyperion then you might not like the sequels because they get further away from what Hyperion was. However if you're open to something new then you might enjoy jumping back into that universe. Endymion is a great adventure with lots of world hopping. The Rise of Endymion is more philosophical and ethereal and might not be for everyone but sticks the landing if you're looking for that kind of thing.
thanks for putting into words what I've thought about this book since I read FoH last year. I enjoy the world Simmons created so much so I enjoyed the book for that, but I had the same frustrations as you. Stay with the group on Hyperion, less Severn and Hegemony higher-ups.
I just finished Fall of Hyperion a few days ago and I loved it! Not as much as book 1, which was a masterpiece, but I still rate it very highly. That said I completely understand all of your criticisms. I had a very similar reaction as I started reading it, I just wanted to focus on Hyperion and th Time Tombs! Over the course of the book however Dan Simmons won me over with these new developments and I got very sucked in. I was also a little lost on the ending, like I think I kind of get? Maybe? not sure... There were a few other things that didn't quite live up to my expectations but overall I was quite satisfied in the way things unraveled. All in all great review Mike!
Late to the party. I just finished Fall of Hyperion earlier today. I must say, joy it. I do understand why it is you didnt care for it as much. It is an extremely valid point Mike. Like you said, there is a difference between not liking something and not appreciating the talent. I did not view your review as being negative
Thank you for another great review! I ended up liking this book but I did find it a bit jarring about the change from the first book. I ended up treating it like it wasn't much of a sequel but a completely separate story with sort of guest appearances by the main characters of the first.
I just finished Fall of Hyperion & was surprised by all the mixed reviews. I actually enjoyed the rantings of the new Keats cybrid. His omniscience felt unearned but i did enjoy seeing the downfall of humanity from an all seeing perspective. A lot of people said in reviews they skimmed over techno core stuff which i think leads to a lot of confusion on the ending. I would not recommend reading this if you do not like techno future babble( i could listen to that origin world AI spit out nonsense about humanity all day). The final chapters were a let down though no matter how much you understand. I'm ok with the resolution but it felt like we skipped over some unknown final scene or battle. Trying to pump myself up to read the next 2 books as i understand they are not about the main cast all.....no Martin Silenus :(
I almost didn’t want to read this book bc of Mikes reaction, but then I remembered this is the same guy who doesn’t like the Name of the Wind. I’ll give it a try
I loved this book even more than the first one, but I get your complains. I was a little confused with the book starting in 1st person, and had to figure out who was this guy keept me intreging and it shocked me when it's finally revealed at the second chapter. I love how this book manages to tell this huge story with more than eight points of view, one of them in 1st person, some times with the narration in present and others in past, and it always feels amazing. Like you said things starts to getting messy at the beggining, so it was a nonstop read, each chapter suprised me more and i was so invested with this fascinating characters and how it was narrated. I understand why you didn't like that thing at the ended, but I fell it will be resolved in the next books, and there's a scene in the book where characters talk about a Deux ex Machina and it fells so... inteligent? my god Simmons know what he's doing.
Loved both part 1 and 2 of Hyperion. Both really surprised me, and I liked them, but not for the reasons I thought I would. Both books were just so much weirder than I anticipated, but somehow I was still very thrilled and satisfied.
Greetings! Writing here for a first time and I recently discovered your channel and enjoy your thoughts. I am nearing the end of "Fall of Hyperion" and I'm also confused not just with the narrative itself, but the method of storytelling, the approach of Dan Simmons. But the book is still amazing and I have to say, it is even written more beautifully in some moments than the original! I had the same feeling with God Emperor of Dune btw. While I was reading God Emperor I was sure that this is the greatest Dune book and its End really disappointed me. Then I realized that Heretics and Chapterhouse actually explain deeply what and why God Emperor ended that way. I guess Endymion will explain the same way. But despite those feelings, Hyperion and The Fall are a stunning experience. Need 50-60 pages to end The Fall. And I can't wait to start Endymion. I know it won't conquer my mind and heart as Dune, but still love Hyperion and have a total respect to Dan Simmons.
Man, I wish I felt that way about the later Dune books. I loved God Emperor and actually felt closure with it, but the remaining books I was totally lost and I can't even remember what they were about. Maybe I need to go back and read them...lol.
@@tasosalexiadis7748 This got me thinking that prescience and predicting the future was cultivated through generations of selective breeding in Dune, expanding of the mind and rejection of technology. While in Hyperion is was through evolving AI and embracting of technology. But then Fall of Hyperion is almost like the beginning of the Dune universe and the Butlerian rebellion. I can't say I like one over the other, but I do feel Dune has a more complicated storyline. I haven't read Endymion yet, so maybe I will change my mind.
@@vazquezcarlos Since we are discussing two of the best SF stories of all time I'll name drop the third and best and most complicated of the three here. The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe.
@@tasosalexiadis7748 A little personal backstory. I tried reading Dune in my 20's and I just couldn't get past the first couple of chapters. Then in my late 30's, I picked it up again and it seemed to all click and I couldn't put it down. I'm not sure if I matured or not, but I found it interesting how my perspective changed later in life. I thought to bring this up because we are talking about complicated stories, and right before I picked up Dune again, I had just finished the Game of Thrones series, and after those, I felt I could tackle anything...lol. Although fantasy, I'm curious if you read GoT, did you feel it was more or less complicated than these SF books?
Felt that Hyperion was a Sci-Fi book with a focus on deep character development. Fall of Hyperion was a Sci-Fi book with a deep focus on Sci-Fi. Enjoyed both very much but the story telling from the 1st book was my favorite part of the series.
Very well articulated criticism. I agree with your take on the problems with the book's narrative structure. That being said, I really think you should take a look at Endymion. You might be positively surprised, especially as regards character work.
Finally, thank you for the review Mike, I enjoyed to hear your thoughts a lot. I agree with your opinion about the book, I enjoyed the story and the characters a lot. The new main character was hower not my favorite and I was also very confused about the conclusion. Thank you for the video
I'll tell you what, for as much as I loved this book as much as the first, I understand what you're saying and even agree with you. When I first started Fall of, (I read them back to back) it was jarring, I wasn't expecting to continue thru the eyes of that character. But I still rolled with it, and my love for the story comes from the world building and technocore and the world web. I loved all that shit. And the ENDING, like, the very end, I thought that was a jaw dropper. The only real bummer here is that you seem talked out of Endymion. Which is a shame, because not only did I enjoy it, but I feel like it's something that you would enjoy too. It's completely different from the first two, because it's picking up far into the future after the fall, but it's an adventure story, and a fellowship. Hell, one could even argue that it's a coming of age, considering how young the character is, and what she is put through. But hey, if you decide to do Ilium, I'll be right along side with ya (because I didn't read those yet). Great review, man, for real 👍
Book one shows us 6 snippets of the magic system. I expected the end to be a reveal/twist/puzzle that ties it all together to beat the big bad. But he realized he was in a corner so ended it and went to another PoV.
I’ve been waiting for this video! I loved both of these Hyperion books, but you’re not wrong. Definitely a strange choice/direction with M Severn. I too was a bit confused by the end of it.
In my mind, The Fall Of Hyperion is more about Severn and his connection to John Keats. How he and Brawne are the parents of The One Who Teaches. Especially after the last few paragraphs, it seems to point you in the direction that the book was a prequel. If only Simmons had focused a book on The One Who Teaches.
Just finished reading Fall of Hyperion an hour ago and also read them both within 2 months. I agree the style was different from the first and I did find it weird at first with the narration from dream perspective. In the first book, a chapter was devoted to each character, and in this second book, each chapter was bouncing back and forth between characters. I remember complaining to my wife that in the first book the chapters were so long and I couldn't find a good stopping point when I needed a break. The cool part of the narration part though, is the connection between the cybrid personas, and without the narration, it would be harder to explain their connectedness...so I see why Simmons had to do it. I'm also grappling with the ending and although I feel some sense of closure, there is still mystery to it. I could see me stopping here and reading something else and then coming back to the rest of the series later on (although, I already ordered the 3rd book and have it waiting for me at the book store...I'm thinking of picking up the 3 body problem instead and reading that first). Also back to the cybrids....has this been done in the past? Did Battlestar Galactica copy this idea?
The first and third books are my favorites. I think you'd like Endymion a lot, but, unfortunately, none of the books are as tight as the first one. They're not bad, though, and have amazing ideas & concepts.
I won't say 'gimmick' because that's too dismissive, but I always felt the first one was better as a collection of short stories, but somewhat unsatisfying as a novel. I enjoyed the stories immensely though, especially how each one was sort of a love letter to a different time in sci-fi fiction. The second one is... less any of those things.
Just finished it for a third time. I do enjoy it but totally get what you are saying...I feel much the same way, and I absolutely recommend Endimyon. Slow intro, but that is ok. I feel it is a step between the first two books.
I wouldn't pick Ilium over Endymion unless you're either a big fan of the Iliad and The Tempest or totally ignorant of them. I find one's milage with his post Cantos stuff depends on how engaging you find his source material/literary inspiration.
I had mixed feelings about "The Fall of Hyperion". The first book was Simmons laying out all the ingredients, the sequel was him stuffing all the ingredients into a blender and turning it on high. I liked the fast paced narrative, with very few dull moments. The chaos of the story structure made for an engaging ride as the story spins from sub-plot to sub-plot like a tornado, but the way it was written also created some confusion for me. One thing I can say for sure if that whatever predictions you had for the second book after reading the first, they will be wrong. "The Fall..." did a lot of interesting exploration of a range of sci-fi ideas. One aspect that seems relevant to the world of 2023 is the idea of sentient AI forming a plot to wipe out humanity. The book also covers mind-machine interfaces, time travel, technological dependence, and virtual space. I'll admit though, having recently read William Gibson's "Neuromancer" and Philip K Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", some of the concepts seem a little derivative. Overall worth reading, even though a lot of it didn't really gel together very well, especially Kassad's story, and Rachel's as well. I read "The Fall..." about nine months after the original, I would recommend reading them closer together. Also, I read "Fall" over a period of six weeks in short sittings while I was busy, I would recommend reading it when you have time to focus in for long periods of time, there is a lot to keep track of that can get lost in between sessions.
Totally agree. “Relegated to cameos” sums it up perfectly. Towards the last quarter of the book I think things got way too ridiculous, even for sci-fi. Especially concerning the Shrike. Still enjoyable enough tho
I loved all the books. Each one is a little different at the start and you have to get your barrings on the universe again. Then it starts expanding the Universe even more.
Good review. I think I liked it more than you but it's definitely a strange follow up to the first book. Doesn't really follow smoothly in tone or structure, but still a lot of great moments and he certainly created a fascinating world. Feels like a rather disjointed pair of books. Still, the first one was god tier, and I thought 'Fall' was solid enough to keep me engaged.
I finished two days ago, I understand what you find frustating but I still like it a lot. The only thing that frustated me was the shrike part...it was totally a letdown.
I really enjoyed the book I love the world building that went on, that really hooked me. Overall I think the first half was a little bit of a struggle to get through but about half way through it really hit a stride and I enjoyed the back half more.
Strongly strongly agree. Hyperion in my top 5 scifi all time. This fn thing I despised the narrative structure... tapped out 150 pages from the ending. I just didn't care anymore lolol
I am a big fan of Simmons horror novels and loved Hyperion when I read in the 2000s but i never jived with Fall. I always felt like I should go back and complete Fall because imma be heard good stuff about the Endymion books
It reminds me of my own reaction to the duology (I did however continued on with Endymion). I read it in the early 90s and halfway through the first volume I got excited to the point it felt to me like I might finally have found something that might resonate with me as strongly as Dune did, but I also thought the second book didn’t live up to my expectations and the series fell down a few pegs in my mind, to the level of some the lesser known Herbert sequences like Pandora. The Endymion books are very different, I sort of enjoyed them. I’m not sure I’d pick Ilium. It’s a good showcase of Simmons’s vast literary culture and writing skills but I mostly remember it for being a bit tedious. And ultimately that may sum my thoughts about Hyperion. I have an excellent memory and books stay with me for a very long time. I’m finishing a reread of The Stand and I’m realizing as I go that some moments and scenes have stayed with me for almost 40 years now. I do have some memories of Hyperion that I recognized listening to your review of book 1, but your review of Fall didn’t trigger anything specific, and I’m even vaguer on Endymion. That basically all faded over time, which isn’t a great sign with me. Your enthusiastic review of Hyperion sort of made me want to reread it one day. We’ll see. The TBR slate is full for now.
I am now 1/3 into the 4th book and it seems to me like the books follow Martin’s work a bit. 1st amazing book that tells the stories that get you hooked. 2nd one the followup that is more ambitious in its philosophy and religious symbolism, but less people appreciate. 3rd one, although don’t get me wrong I did like, seems like more stories from the universe you love, as were the Martin’s sequels. Yet to see how the 4th ties in.
A fair review. Hyperion towers over the second book as it towers over almost everything else in the genre and in fairness, Simmons wanted it to be one long tale. The Endymion books are not a must-read, I like them more than most, but the last book is 200 pages too long and he loses his way. I recommend his “Carrion Comfort” one of the greatest horror books ever written and a favorite of your guy Mr. King.
Having read all of the Hyperion Cantos, I really think you should finish Endymion/Rise of Endymion. There are some truly amazing parts of those books, and while I wasn't a huge fan of Fall of Hyperion, I thought that it redeemed itself in the end(ymion).
Fall of Hyperion was suck a different take than Hyperion. With how good book 1 was, book 2 would have a hard time living up to the high standards set before it. I liked it, but it didn't go in the direction I was expecting. I will get to book 3 when I can, and I hope things pick back up.
I was trying hard to figure out your complaint about the narrator or narrative center. You've got a two-book story, and the first book is told by six different people, and now you cavil at adding a seventh? I think it comes with how long you went between reading the two books. By the time you read Fall, the six characters of Hyperion were cemented in your mind. If someone (like, say, me) were to read them back-to-back, then the sentimental value wouldn't latch on to just the six, but would continue unbroken into the second book. Just a thought.
Oh cmoon, I really liked the characters from the first book and the first book absolutely hooked me. Why?? Why??? I hate the idea of seeing glimpses of the pilgrims through someone elses dreams.
I'm halfway through FoH and am close to DNFing as the structure is such a huge step away from Hyperion (which I absolutely loved.) There are too many trippy sequences which I'm not a big fan of as they come across as self indulgent and pretentious. I'm sticking with it as I've heard the ending is satisfying.
This feels like I how I felt about the sequel to alien. Good movie on its own, but not what I wanted from a sequel to the first. Although I feel like that’s an uncommon opinion
Dan Simmons shouldn't be allowed to write long narratives, he always, ALWAYS loses focus and ruins the amazing potential of what he's doing when he has the room to do it. It's why I like Song of Kali the best, it's short enough that he can't go off the rails at all.
Sadly I have to agree. The ending was quite disappointing in my opinion, especially the confrontation with the shrike and lack of explanations. Still enjoyed the book overall but the last few chapters really failed to stick the landing.
I also had my issues with "Fall of Hyperion", so was a bit reluctant to read the Endymion sequels. This was unfounded, because I ended up loving those books (with "Rise of Endymion", the 4th book, possibly my favorite of the whole series). So please give them a try. FOH is the weakest book in the series IMO.
@@patrickharden9917 I really enjoyed Ender's game. I was less keen on Speaker for the Dead, but I still want to read Xenocide since Speaker ended on a bit of cliffhanger. But Hyperion was such a mind blowing read for me... it's like a complex jigsaw puzzle made up of every genre of sci-fi, that somehow comes together into a cohesive narrative. Loved it.
@@Aethgeir I'm the kind out reader that says you should read anything that sounds interesting to you. So don't go by my take. I will say that are first for Hyperion I was a book one and two fan. I'm on my third or fourth read through now though and I can appreciate the point of all four books.
I was also not a fan of the narrative structure, but it actually had the opposite effect. I kinda grew disinterested in most of what the Hyperion gang was up to, with the exception of a couple of instances, and mostly interested in the broader political story. Like much of what the gang was up to felt like inconsequential and fillery (despite loving their stories in book 1), and was taking attention away from the far more consequential and interesting broader story, and so I kept wanting to go back to the pov storyline. All in all, the book was at least in part, an actual slog, which is in contrast with how gripping the first book was. PS. Also Jesus Christ the Keats stuff. I felt like he way overdid it.
*shrike cultists* 🤪 yessssss. Btw, you're gonna really DIG Ilium. Hopefully you'll review it but one can also understand if you stop here with the let down of the Fall of Hyperion. After watching this review, my forgotten angst was reignited. watching you talk about your disappointment was like me looking in the mirror years ago.
I reallly liked this book, I think I was even more engaged than with the first one which I thought unbeatable. Thr only thing that pissed me were two continuity mistakes (or were they three?). Beta readers should have been more alert
If you didn't like Fall of Hyperion that much, I would recommend to stop the series here. Endymion and Rise of Endymion might not be to your liking. This book provides a satisfying ending and the last two books are really not required to be read to enjoy this.
Hey bookworms! A couple of corrections: First, I do know that it is Lois Bujold, not Louis. Sometimes it just isn't worth starting over because of a simple speaking error. Also, I realize I say "Featherstone" at the end instead of "Gladstone." My bad. I was talking to someone on the Discord about Preacher and got the names goofed up. Thanks!
I just made that same mistake-Louis instead of Lois-in my video.
I'm glad you're honest there after the positive parts. Bro hyperion cantos sucks. I think too many people hype it up. It has a few good twists and turns but other than that it sucks, everything sucks, his prose sucks, the way he described things suck, the words he makes up suck, his pretentious poetry stuff and wannabe theology sucks, his conclusions to the big mysteries are the absolute worst.
Why the f does.no one mention that one of the conclusions is "it's all love, the void that binds is love"
The void.that binds in and ofitself js idiotic
Kassad's death was completely meaningless. His story was cool but then turned completely whack at the end. His romance plot was absolutely hilarious. These people have spoken like 2 minutes with each other max'm combined throughout both books.
I think Simmons was also trying to.make a statement. With Kassad being Palestinian and Rachel / Moneta Jewish. But if you pay attention, while he extensively focuses on the religion of the priest's (makes sense) and of sol Weintraub. Never on Kassad. Who has Fedmahn as a name ... which sounds more German.
And in the end of the second book. Simmons recounts all the planets and how great they are doing (imagine somewhere over the rainbow playing on the background, played by a cnt wearing a tricore...who the f does that, who wears a tricore) but when it comes to the 3 Muslim planets. It's all nuclear Jihad, Iranian radical Shia Mollah uprisings that genocide the Sunni population and basically just creates a more radical space Iran. He also loves to just stick jihad to stuff. "Nuclear Jihad".
This dude was at one point somewhat open-minded but had all the biases you can imagine. Seems to have gotten a lot worse over time.though
@@godofchaoskhorne5043 I would state otherwise. The Kassad's fight with Shrike is super awesome. Espiecally that Moneta is in the fight with him. The "mussle" (BTW he is kind of just muscle) and mysterious woman from future bringing silver suit which can manipulate time. Later on we know more about her.
Fall of Hyperion is easily one of the best pieces of sci fi ever written. The pay off is masterful and well earned.
Just finished this book about an hour ago and absolutely loved it. I thought it was the perfect sequel
same brother
Mike, I totally agree with you here. When I finished "The Fall of Hyperion" two days ago, I was unsure how I felt. The book has great things, mainly the worldbuilding and the final twists in the Hegemony x Ousters x TechnoCore war. Dan Simmons's prose is excellent, the character work is great, and the plot, in general, keeps getting more interesting with every page turn. However, a lot of stuff is also set up but never pays off (or does it poorly). A lot of things don't seem to go anywhere. There are plenty of moments in the book that I don't know why they are there. Many answers are left unanswered, and although part of them seems to be deliberately a mystery and that's ok, many more were intrinsic to the main plot and were still badly explained if explained at all.
The third act alone, however exciting, felt very rushed and left many things badly concluded.
I'm still going to read Endymion and finish the series sooner or later, but I can't escape the disappointment regarding "The Fall of Hyperion".
I understand your frustrations with the book. I think I understand the change in focus based on Simmons inspirations for the novels. Your star wars analogy was hilarious! I think the reason that I loved it so much was that I wasn't expecting the focus on the war and the technocore. I thought it was going to be a straight continuation with the main characters. To each their own, I guess.
Fall of Hyperion is almost as good as Hyperion but the structure/style of Hyperion is unbeatable. It's a tough act to follow but a very satisfying conclusion.
Interesting because for me the second book is so much more epic and mind blowing that it makes the first book in retrospect appear just like a nice little prequel story like with the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
I’m over half way through “The Fall of Hyperion” and I love it, can’t say it’s better or worse but am impressed with the expanding world building with this book and the revelations the pilgrims experience a d think it’s a great sequel 📚😷🙏
I've heard it was written by Dan Simmons as one book but the publisher asked to divide it into 2 pieces and Dan agreed.
The Canterbury Tales structure of Hyperion was so cool to me as a teenager when I was initially read it. I don't think I ever finished the series, but I remember having a fantastic time reading the first one.
I also had a small psychedelic phase in my mid 20's and I thought about the Shrike a lot.
For me, I can't think of Hyperion and Fall as two different books. Fall of Hyperion is simply a longer, 7th narrative POV that falls in with the same framework as the original book, I feel it simply zooms out into the current time rather than zooming in on the past. Not the least bit disappointing for me, love them both.
Great content! You are one of the best Booktubers. You have an excellent, funny personality and you know your books! Thank you for your hard work.💕
Thanks so much!
Read The Fall of Hyperion by John Keats and then you will understand the structure of the second book - and why it's brilliant.
Mind kept blowing reading the end of the series. I still contemplate its implications often. Push through, it made me grow personally.
I felt like this book fleshed out the universe created in Hyperion. We now knew the characters from Hyperion (except maybe Father Hoyt). So now we see the completion of their story and it's put in its fuller context.
I think maybe the pilgrims' stories could have been completed in the first novel, and Gladstone and Severn could have been the second story, with references to the pilgrims. But that would have made the two books more standalone.
Illium is good: I read it last summer. And I just finished rereading the next two novels in the Cantos. They really add a lot to the universe.
I just finished with Fall of Hyperion and it automatically became my favourite Sci-Fi series of all time. There is no single weak character in the books, the dialogue is top notch. It has cyberpunk, it has somewhat gothic, Warhammer-esque elements; epic battles and giant spaceships that can obliterate entire planets. It is full of heartbreaking moments. It has The Shrike - one of the most terrifying creatures ever written; discussions on philosophy, religion and artificial intelligence. It's a story about friendship, sacrifice, facing the impossible and so much more. It's so relevant that it feels as though it's written yesterday. For me, I liked the books more than Dune. Who cares about nitpicking when the book is just so good, once you immerse yourself completely in it. Not reading the two Hyperion books is like being a Fantasy fan and not reading The Lord Of The RIngs.
This really helped thank you, because I've literally just finished book 2 and i was so lost and confused for most of this book, so this explanation really helped me to understand this book better! ❤
The Fall of Hyperion is like if the second half of the Lord of the Rings was told by the eyes of a random hobbit in the Shire: he does his own things and from time to time he hears what's going on with Sauron. Probably still good but it's just not what a reader wants.
Really interesting how you see the second book. For me the first book was basically just a setup for the second one and I loved every single page of the Fall of Hyperion and how it got just more and more nuts and I could not put it down for a second.
I really liked the book, but i think you are spot on in your review. I loved the expanding of the universe and the politics and the AI and all that jazz. In fact i enjoyed it so much so, i ranked Fall ahead of Hyperion when I read them back to back.
I think if you are into the hardcore techno sci-fi, Fall will suit you well.
Remember in in Hyperion when Martin started getting frustrated in how everyone started their story with a story about someone else? That's how The Hyperion Cantos is. It starts out with the story of the final pilgrimage, but that's not really what the overall story is about.
The part when Sol handed Rachel off to the Shrike had me in literal tears. That “say yes, daddy”…. So tough.
Hey Mike! I have been following you for quite some time and read what you recommend. So I picked up this series. I was surprised at your review…when you read the book as a whole it has one theme and blends perfectly well. And its not the Shrike. Its not disjointed at all but brilliantly put together as a story about the human race as a species. The main character doesn’t shift to Keats but the possibility that humankind had lost itself in its creation of AI. To think this was written in what..the 90’s can be seen as almost prophetic. Give it another read my friend!
Mike, I appreciate that you make it clear that these reviews are your opinion and you don't discourage anyone from reading them and you make that clear too. It just feels like a lot of book reviewers don't make that clear and I genuinely appreciate that.
I hear people tell me a lot "Oh, I was going to read that but ___ booktuber's review made me decide not to." I want to reassure that this isn't what I'd like my channel to be.
@@mikesbookreviews Well it's fantastic and your channel is great Mike! Keep up the great work!
Finally diving into book two today. I've been so nervous because I feel like you and I have similar feelings about a lot of books. So I'm hoping since I've set realistic expectations, I'll be able to enjoy it.
So, I finished this book like an hour ago. I haven't watched the video yet because I wanted to form my opinions beforehand. I figured I'd share them here first, then watch the video later and come back here to say what I think about what you said.
I'm going to put my thoughts after watching the video here so the spoilers I gave are still the last part of the comment.
AFTER WATCHING
So, I agree with all the good by I acutally liked the structure, as I said before. I think saying that the main 7 are relegated to cameos is a bit unfair, since we do get a ton of chapters in from their perspective, and we do see almost everything, including a lot of stuff that was happening at the same time but in different places. I do agree that the final showdown with the Shrike was a let down, though. And a big one.
BEFORE WATCHING
First, I want to say that I really enjoyed the first almost 90% of the book. I was very interested in all storylines and I thought that Severn was a genius solution to the problem Dan Simmons would eventually come to when trying to tell all stories if he was sticking to one POV (which he did, technically). I loved the philosophical themes, the machinations (pun very much intended) of the Core, the whole cybrid deal and such. I loved all of this so much that at, like, 85% of the book, I was ready to give it 5 stars, a 10/10 grade and determine the first part of Hyperion Cantos (Hyperion + Fall of Hyperion) one of, if not the, best books I've read.
And then 2 things happened. Spoilers ahead, folks.
1 - Brawne Lamia. What was that? Just a few chapters before, I was happy that Kassad hadn't bested the Shrike in a 1v1, because it wouldn't make sense to me, even with the skinsuit. And then she just flies and turns the Shrike into glass?????
2 - Johnny saving Rachel. I didn't really like him being able to just tell everyone what to do and avoid an even bigger catastrophe, but it was fine to me because it was somewhat prepared through the whole book. First, he could see stuff that was happening to everyone when he dreamed. Then, he was able to summon the visions while awake. Later, he could communicate as well. Ok, fine. But releasing the Erg, merging with it, taking Rachel from the Shrike's arms while conveniently he couldn't fight back was too much to me.
Aside from these to 2 things, I really liked the book. I'd give it a 9/10 or 4 to 4.5 stars, I think
I always felt that the first book was a setup to something else. Then the second book really got into the underlining storyarcs and it really hooked me up. It is very intelligent writing and it all makes sense in the end, loved it. I actuallyy like the second book more because of that. Here we see things comming together and the story gets explained. I read the books twice and I REALLY loved them. To me it's not two books, it's one book. (my actual copy is one book) So yeah to me the strength of the series is the underlining storyarc, that is what is't all about. The pilgrim stories are a setup to something else.
What is interesting is that the story structure for book two makes sense after reading The last 2 books. He is an interesting writer. I loved all the Books.
I enjoyed The Fall of Hyperion even more than Hyperion but they are quite different so I see why fans can be divided. I enjoyed the world building and the writing in Hyperion but I wanted more plot progression in the current timeline and to learn more about the Shrike and the Time Tombs.
The Fall of Hyperion started a little slowly but once it got going it really delivered for me. The way it expanded on the TechnoCore, the Void Which Binds, the Ousters, and the Templar Brotherhood was all fascinating to me. I think it provided satisfying conclusions to each of the travelers' stories as well. Some of them hit me really hard.
I didn't mind spending time with Gladstone and Severn. Gladstone was a fantastic character and her storyline connected the importance of the pilgrims to the rest of the universe, and Severn was a clever way to connect the two as well as continuing to weave the influence of Keats into the narrative.
I understand that the Shrike confrontation wasn't entirely clear. I would have preferred something more concrete but that's not really the type of writer Simmons is. There are hints provided in Endymion and The Rise of Endymion but there's never a conclusive explanation.
I enjoyed Endymion and The Rise of Endymion as well but they are quite separate. The main characters are different and the plot is new. The duologies are definitely Book 1A and 1B then 2A and 2B. If you loved Hyperion but didn't enjoy The Fall of Hyperion then you might not like the sequels because they get further away from what Hyperion was. However if you're open to something new then you might enjoy jumping back into that universe.
Endymion is a great adventure with lots of world hopping. The Rise of Endymion is more philosophical and ethereal and might not be for everyone but sticks the landing if you're looking for that kind of thing.
thanks for putting into words what I've thought about this book since I read FoH last year. I enjoy the world Simmons created so much so I enjoyed the book for that, but I had the same frustrations as you. Stay with the group on Hyperion, less Severn and Hegemony higher-ups.
I just finished Fall of Hyperion a few days ago and I loved it! Not as much as book 1, which was a masterpiece, but I still rate it very highly. That said I completely understand all of your criticisms. I had a very similar reaction as I started reading it, I just wanted to focus on Hyperion and th Time Tombs! Over the course of the book however Dan Simmons won me over with these new developments and I got very sucked in. I was also a little lost on the ending, like I think I kind of get? Maybe? not sure... There were a few other things that didn't quite live up to my expectations but overall I was quite satisfied in the way things unraveled. All in all great review Mike!
Late to the party. I just finished Fall of Hyperion earlier today. I must say, joy it. I do understand why it is you didnt care for it as much. It is an extremely valid point Mike. Like you said, there is a difference between not liking something and not appreciating the talent. I did not view your review as being negative
Thank you for another great review! I ended up liking this book but I did find it a bit jarring about the change from the first book. I ended up treating it like it wasn't much of a sequel but a completely separate story with sort of guest appearances by the main characters of the first.
I just finished Fall of Hyperion & was surprised by all the mixed reviews. I actually enjoyed the rantings of the new Keats cybrid. His omniscience felt unearned but i did enjoy seeing the downfall of humanity from an all seeing perspective.
A lot of people said in reviews they skimmed over techno core stuff which i think leads to a lot of confusion on the ending. I would not recommend reading this if you do not like techno future babble( i could listen to that origin world AI spit out nonsense about humanity all day).
The final chapters were a let down though no matter how much you understand. I'm ok with the resolution but it felt like we skipped over some unknown final scene or battle.
Trying to pump myself up to read the next 2 books as i understand they are not about the main cast all.....no Martin Silenus :(
I almost didn’t want to read this book bc of Mikes reaction, but then I remembered this is the same guy who doesn’t like the Name of the Wind. I’ll give it a try
Enjoy!
@@mikesbookreviews I love you Mike😂
I loved this book even more than the first one, but I get your complains. I was a little confused with the book starting in 1st person, and had to figure out who was this guy keept me intreging and it shocked me when it's finally revealed at the second chapter. I love how this book manages to tell this huge story with more than eight points of view, one of them in 1st person, some times with the narration in present and others in past, and it always feels amazing. Like you said things starts to getting messy at the beggining, so it was a nonstop read, each chapter suprised me more and i was so invested with this fascinating characters and how it was narrated. I understand why you didn't like that thing at the ended, but I fell it will be resolved in the next books, and there's a scene in the book where characters talk about a Deux ex Machina and it fells so... inteligent? my god Simmons know what he's doing.
Loved both part 1 and 2 of Hyperion. Both really surprised me, and I liked them, but not for the reasons I thought I would. Both books were just so much weirder than I anticipated, but somehow I was still very thrilled and satisfied.
I liked the Endymion books more. Some parts of the Hyperion books were a chore to read through.
goddamnit, been a while since I read those and now they'll have to back on the re-read list!
Thanks Mike!
Can't wait to watch your video on Endymion and Rise of Endymion!
Greetings! Writing here for a first time and I recently discovered your channel and enjoy your thoughts. I am nearing the end of "Fall of Hyperion" and I'm also confused not just with the narrative itself, but the method of storytelling, the approach of Dan Simmons. But the book is still amazing and I have to say, it is even written more beautifully in some moments than the original!
I had the same feeling with God Emperor of Dune btw. While I was reading God Emperor I was sure that this is the greatest Dune book and its End really disappointed me. Then I realized that Heretics and Chapterhouse actually explain deeply what and why God Emperor ended that way. I guess Endymion will explain the same way.
But despite those feelings, Hyperion and The Fall are a stunning experience. Need 50-60 pages to end The Fall. And I can't wait to start Endymion. I know it won't conquer my mind and heart as Dune, but still love Hyperion and have a total respect to Dan Simmons.
I found Hyperion/Fall of Hyperion better than Dune.
Man, I wish I felt that way about the later Dune books. I loved God Emperor and actually felt closure with it, but the remaining books I was totally lost and I can't even remember what they were about. Maybe I need to go back and read them...lol.
@@tasosalexiadis7748 This got me thinking that prescience and predicting the future was cultivated through generations of selective breeding in Dune, expanding of the mind and rejection of technology. While in Hyperion is was through evolving AI and embracting of technology. But then Fall of Hyperion is almost like the beginning of the Dune universe and the Butlerian rebellion.
I can't say I like one over the other, but I do feel Dune has a more complicated storyline. I haven't read Endymion yet, so maybe I will change my mind.
@@vazquezcarlos Since we are discussing two of the best SF stories of all time I'll name drop the third and best and most complicated of the three here. The Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe.
@@tasosalexiadis7748 A little personal backstory. I tried reading Dune in my 20's and I just couldn't get past the first couple of chapters. Then in my late 30's, I picked it up again and it seemed to all click and I couldn't put it down. I'm not sure if I matured or not, but I found it interesting how my perspective changed later in life.
I thought to bring this up because we are talking about complicated stories, and right before I picked up Dune again, I had just finished the Game of Thrones series, and after those, I felt I could tackle anything...lol. Although fantasy, I'm curious if you read GoT, did you feel it was more or less complicated than these SF books?
yes I've been anticipating this!
Felt that Hyperion was a Sci-Fi book with a focus on deep character development. Fall of Hyperion was a Sci-Fi book with a deep focus on Sci-Fi. Enjoyed both very much but the story telling from the 1st book was my favorite part of the series.
Very well articulated criticism. I agree with your take on the problems with the book's narrative structure. That being said, I really think you should take a look at Endymion. You might be positively surprised, especially as regards character work.
Finally, thank you for the review Mike, I enjoyed to hear your thoughts a lot. I agree with your opinion about the book, I enjoyed the story and the characters a lot. The new main character was hower not my favorite and I was also very confused about the conclusion. Thank you for the video
I'll tell you what, for as much as I loved this book as much as the first, I understand what you're saying and even agree with you. When I first started Fall of, (I read them back to back) it was jarring, I wasn't expecting to continue thru the eyes of that character.
But I still rolled with it, and my love for the story comes from the world building and technocore and the world web. I loved all that shit. And the ENDING, like, the very end, I thought that was a jaw dropper.
The only real bummer here is that you seem talked out of Endymion. Which is a shame, because not only did I enjoy it, but I feel like it's something that you would enjoy too. It's completely different from the first two, because it's picking up far into the future after the fall, but it's an adventure story, and a fellowship. Hell, one could even argue that it's a coming of age, considering how young the character is, and what she is put through.
But hey, if you decide to do Ilium, I'll be right along side with ya (because I didn't read those yet).
Great review, man, for real 👍
Book one shows us 6 snippets of the magic system. I expected the end to be a reveal/twist/puzzle that ties it all together to beat the big bad. But he realized he was in a corner so ended it and went to another PoV.
I’ve been waiting for this video! I loved both of these Hyperion books, but you’re not wrong. Definitely a strange choice/direction with M Severn. I too was a bit confused by the end of it.
Yo, I literally just got the omnibus edition like a month ago! So psyched to read it now!
Please read the two Endymion books. They’re directly related to Hyperion.
In my mind, The Fall Of Hyperion is more about Severn and his connection to John Keats. How he and Brawne are the parents of The One Who Teaches. Especially after the last few paragraphs, it seems to point you in the direction that the book was a prequel. If only Simmons had focused a book on The One Who Teaches.
My favorite Dan Simmons book is Summer of Night…especially if you’re a big fan of Stephen King’s It!
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that had this reaction!
Such a letdown
Just finished reading Fall of Hyperion an hour ago and also read them both within 2 months. I agree the style was different from the first and I did find it weird at first with the narration from dream perspective.
In the first book, a chapter was devoted to each character, and in this second book, each chapter was bouncing back and forth between characters. I remember complaining to my wife that in the first book the chapters were so long and I couldn't find a good stopping point when I needed a break.
The cool part of the narration part though, is the connection between the cybrid personas, and without the narration, it would be harder to explain their connectedness...so I see why Simmons had to do it.
I'm also grappling with the ending and although I feel some sense of closure, there is still mystery to it. I could see me stopping here and reading something else and then coming back to the rest of the series later on (although, I already ordered the 3rd book and have it waiting for me at the book store...I'm thinking of picking up the 3 body problem instead and reading that first).
Also back to the cybrids....has this been done in the past? Did Battlestar Galactica copy this idea?
The first and third books are my favorites. I think you'd like Endymion a lot, but, unfortunately, none of the books are as tight as the first one. They're not bad, though, and have amazing ideas & concepts.
I won't say 'gimmick' because that's too dismissive, but I always felt the first one was better as a collection of short stories, but somewhat unsatisfying as a novel. I enjoyed the stories immensely though, especially how each one was sort of a love letter to a different time in sci-fi fiction. The second one is... less any of those things.
We shall not speak of Endymion
Thanks, great review.
Just finished it for a third time. I do enjoy it but totally get what you are saying...I feel much the same way, and I absolutely recommend Endimyon. Slow intro, but that is ok. I feel it is a step between the first two books.
Have not gotten enough Lobot in the Expanded Universe ;)
- but would never have increased his presence at the expense of Luke, Leia and Han.
I'm just glad someone else knows Lobot ha ha
Now I wanna read it...you make me want to read this one ☝️😂😂
Hope you enjoy it!
I wouldn't pick Ilium over Endymion unless you're either a big fan of the Iliad and The Tempest or totally ignorant of them. I find one's milage with his post Cantos stuff depends on how engaging you find his source material/literary inspiration.
Whats the inspiration for Endymion?
I'd say it's unique in that it's just based off events of the previous two books, and not obviously another author's work, unless I missed it.
Hey man, if you see this, can you let me know what you mic set up is? Audio is great on your videos.
I had mixed feelings about "The Fall of Hyperion". The first book was Simmons laying out all the ingredients, the sequel was him stuffing all the ingredients into a blender and turning it on high. I liked the fast paced narrative, with very few dull moments. The chaos of the story structure made for an engaging ride as the story spins from sub-plot to sub-plot like a tornado, but the way it was written also created some confusion for me. One thing I can say for sure if that whatever predictions you had for the second book after reading the first, they will be wrong.
"The Fall..." did a lot of interesting exploration of a range of sci-fi ideas. One aspect that seems relevant to the world of 2023 is the idea of sentient AI forming a plot to wipe out humanity. The book also covers mind-machine interfaces, time travel, technological dependence, and virtual space. I'll admit though, having recently read William Gibson's "Neuromancer" and Philip K Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", some of the concepts seem a little derivative.
Overall worth reading, even though a lot of it didn't really gel together very well, especially Kassad's story, and Rachel's as well. I read "The Fall..." about nine months after the original, I would recommend reading them closer together. Also, I read "Fall" over a period of six weeks in short sittings while I was busy, I would recommend reading it when you have time to focus in for long periods of time, there is a lot to keep track of that can get lost in between sessions.
Totally agree. “Relegated to cameos” sums it up perfectly. Towards the last quarter of the book I think things got way too ridiculous, even for sci-fi. Especially concerning the Shrike. Still enjoyable enough tho
I loved all the books. Each one is a little different at the start and you have to get your barrings on the universe again. Then it starts expanding the Universe even more.
Best t-shirt yet + a Lobot reference! Children of the 70’s unite!
Good review. I think I liked it more than you but it's definitely a strange follow up to the first book. Doesn't really follow smoothly in tone or structure, but still a lot of great moments and he certainly created a fascinating world. Feels like a rather disjointed pair of books. Still, the first one was god tier, and I thought 'Fall' was solid enough to keep me engaged.
Reading all four is worth it 110%. It is meant to be read in full. The Full Hyperion Cantos is the new bible of the future.
I finished two days ago, I understand what you find frustating but I still like it a lot. The only thing that frustated me was the shrike part...it was totally a letdown.
The shrike is freaking awesome
I really enjoyed the book I love the world building that went on, that really hooked me. Overall I think the first half was a little bit of a struggle to get through but about half way through it really hit a stride and I enjoyed the back half more.
Strongly strongly agree.
Hyperion in my top 5 scifi all time.
This fn thing I despised the narrative structure... tapped out 150 pages from the ending. I just didn't care anymore lolol
I am a big fan of Simmons horror novels and loved Hyperion when I read in the 2000s but i never jived with Fall. I always felt like I should go back and complete Fall because imma be heard good stuff about the Endymion books
It reminds me of my own reaction to the duology (I did however continued on with Endymion). I read it in the early 90s and halfway through the first volume I got excited to the point it felt to me like I might finally have found something that might resonate with me as strongly as Dune did, but I also thought the second book didn’t live up to my expectations and the series fell down a few pegs in my mind, to the level of some the lesser known Herbert sequences like Pandora. The Endymion books are very different, I sort of enjoyed them. I’m not sure I’d pick Ilium. It’s a good showcase of Simmons’s vast literary culture and writing skills but I mostly remember it for being a bit tedious.
And ultimately that may sum my thoughts about Hyperion. I have an excellent memory and books stay with me for a very long time. I’m finishing a reread of The Stand and I’m realizing as I go that some moments and scenes have stayed with me for almost 40 years now. I do have some memories of Hyperion that I recognized listening to your review of book 1, but your review of Fall didn’t trigger anything specific, and I’m even vaguer on Endymion. That basically all faded over time, which isn’t a great sign with me. Your enthusiastic review of Hyperion sort of made me want to reread it one day. We’ll see. The TBR slate is full for now.
I really recommend you to read Illium. That's such a treat :)
I am now 1/3 into the 4th book and it seems to me like the books follow Martin’s work a bit. 1st amazing book that tells the stories that get you hooked. 2nd one the followup that is more ambitious in its philosophy and religious symbolism, but less people appreciate. 3rd one, although don’t get me wrong I did like, seems like more stories from the universe you love, as were the Martin’s sequels. Yet to see how the 4th ties in.
A fair review. Hyperion towers over the second book as it towers over almost everything else in the genre and in fairness, Simmons wanted it to be one long tale. The Endymion books are not a must-read, I like them more than most, but the last book is 200 pages too long and he loses his way. I recommend his “Carrion Comfort” one of the greatest horror books ever written and a favorite of your guy Mr. King.
Having read all of the Hyperion Cantos, I really think you should finish Endymion/Rise of Endymion. There are some truly amazing parts of those books, and while I wasn't a huge fan of Fall of Hyperion, I thought that it redeemed itself in the end(ymion).
Fall of Hyperion was suck a different take than Hyperion. With how good book 1 was, book 2 would have a hard time living up to the high standards set before it. I liked it, but it didn't go in the direction I was expecting. I will get to book 3 when I can, and I hope things pick back up.
Please read Fall of Hyperion and the Endymion series too. It will complete the series. Also please read the Ilium series too!!
I was trying hard to figure out your complaint about the narrator or narrative center. You've got a two-book story, and the first book is told by six different people, and now you cavil at adding a seventh? I think it comes with how long you went between reading the two books. By the time you read Fall, the six characters of Hyperion were cemented in your mind. If someone (like, say, me) were to read them back-to-back, then the sentimental value wouldn't latch on to just the six, but would continue unbroken into the second book. Just a thought.
I want to read hyperion so bad, but I hear the sequels get bad. Where do u recommend I stop? At hyperion or fall of hyperion.
FoH is a lot more consistent, but I’d say half of the stories in Hyperion are just so great that they overshadow FoH
i liked the series better and better as it went along
Awesome!
I’m definitely down to read the first book but the second one I’m kinda iffy on.
Oh cmoon, I really liked the characters from the first book and the first book absolutely hooked me. Why?? Why??? I hate the idea of seeing glimpses of the pilgrims through someone elses dreams.
💯
Hyperion style is The Canterbury Tales.
This is another series I have in my kindle. I’ll get to it…….at some point
I'm halfway through FoH and am close to DNFing as the structure is such a huge step away from Hyperion (which I absolutely loved.) There are too many trippy sequences which I'm not a big fan of as they come across as self indulgent and pretentious. I'm sticking with it as I've heard the ending is satisfying.
This feels like I how I felt about the sequel to alien. Good movie on its own, but not what I wanted from a sequel to the first. Although I feel like that’s an uncommon opinion
Dan Simmons shouldn't be allowed to write long narratives, he always, ALWAYS loses focus and ruins the amazing potential of what he's doing when he has the room to do it. It's why I like Song of Kali the best, it's short enough that he can't go off the rails at all.
That book was f*cked up.
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd Well it is a horror novel.
Are you saying this didnt go in the direction you were hoping for?
Sadly I have to agree. The ending was quite disappointing in my opinion, especially the confrontation with the shrike and lack of explanations. Still enjoyed the book overall but the last few chapters really failed to stick the landing.
I also had my issues with "Fall of Hyperion", so was a bit reluctant to read the Endymion sequels. This was unfounded, because I ended up loving those books (with "Rise of Endymion", the 4th book, possibly my favorite of the whole series). So please give them a try. FOH is the weakest book in the series IMO.
Thank you. I needed to hear that, honestly.
I liked Hyperion FAR more than Dune or Ender's Game.
I can agree on Dune (I've only read the first novel), but it's too close to call for Ender's series for me.
@@patrickharden9917 I really enjoyed Ender's game. I was less keen on Speaker for the Dead, but I still want to read Xenocide since Speaker ended on a bit of cliffhanger. But Hyperion was such a mind blowing read for me... it's like a complex jigsaw puzzle made up of every genre of sci-fi, that somehow comes together into a cohesive narrative. Loved it.
@@Aethgeir I'm the kind out reader that says you should read anything that sounds interesting to you. So don't go by my take. I will say that are first for Hyperion I was a book one and two fan. I'm on my third or fourth read through now though and I can appreciate the point of all four books.
I was also not a fan of the narrative structure, but it actually had the opposite effect. I kinda grew disinterested in most of what the Hyperion gang was up to, with the exception of a couple of instances, and mostly interested in the broader political story. Like much of what the gang was up to felt like inconsequential and fillery (despite loving their stories in book 1), and was taking attention away from the far more consequential and interesting broader story, and so I kept wanting to go back to the pov storyline.
All in all, the book was at least in part, an actual slog, which is in contrast with how gripping the first book was.
PS. Also Jesus Christ the Keats stuff. I felt like he way overdid it.
*shrike cultists* 🤪 yessssss. Btw, you're gonna really DIG Ilium. Hopefully you'll review it but one can also understand if you stop here with the let down of the Fall of Hyperion. After watching this review, my forgotten angst was reignited. watching you talk about your disappointment was like me looking in the mirror years ago.
I reallly liked this book, I think I was even more engaged than with the first one which I thought unbeatable. Thr only thing that pissed me were two continuity mistakes (or were they three?). Beta readers should have been more alert
When’s the third age of madness review coming 🤔
IIRC it releases in September, right? So then
When the book gets released. Publisher's request.
book 2 answers most questions
Well, I'm pretty character driven. But I'll give this series a try eventually I guess.
No quotation introduction? This cannot be a proper Mike's Review!!
I did it for the "Why I Decided to Read."
If you didn't like Fall of Hyperion that much, I would recommend to stop the series here. Endymion and Rise of Endymion might not be to your liking. This book provides a satisfying ending and the last two books are really not required to be read to enjoy this.