Why "Knees Over Toes" DOESN'T WORK For Some People (do this instead)
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- Lower Limb Foundations Course: www.conorharris.com/lower-lim...
0:00 Introduction
1:00 The IDEAL Mechanics Of The Knees
2:36 Exercise #1 For Better Knee Health
6:14 Exercise #2 For Better Knee Health
9:16 Better Alternative For Exercise For Knees Over Toes Exercise
13:25 My Honest Thoughts On Knees Over Toes
![Your Psoas Isn't Just Tight, It's WEAK [Don't Stretch, Do These Instead]](/img/1.gif)
Conor and Ben have very valuable information. For me a lot of Ben’s philosophies have worked and have changed my life for the better. I’m Skateboarding at my highest level and I am in my early thirties and looking to continue well into my forties. His channel healed my ankle and restored movement beyond what I had before injury. While Ben Patrick got me out of stubborn low back pain. And got me more atheltic. Conor was the one who got me out chronic anterior pelvic tilt and lower back stiffness. (Tightest lats ever) conor got to a more root cause for a lot of my issues. Conor really made me understand the importance of the breath which is so overlooked on RUclips and in the PT world. Maybe Ben’s program isn’t for everyone. If you havnt tried knees over toes training I would urge you to take it slow and enjoy the process. It’s not a program that you want to rush into. I spent double the amount of time in Ben Patrick’s zero program. Just to build a solid foundation. Also Conor’s beginner body restoration program is a steal. Movement will set you free. Good luck everybody
Knees over toes got me back on my board too! MRI showed a medial condyle cartilage tear, I couldn’t come up to pop without pain and weakness. Stuck with the zero program for 6 months and I’m skating better than I did before.
@@jeffli480 hell yes !!! Great to read this ! Stay on it
be careful about Ben's 'philosophies', Ben Patrick is a Scientologist and works for Clearwater to contribute ridiculous religion. Of course, his physical workout routine is helpful for many people since he technically repackages the rehab workouts for the knee which already exist
So glad this video was made. You addressed things well. All my clients are in the 60+ group.
Thank you for this video - so so helpful. A great reminder for me of knee biomechanics. You explain things so clearly it's great. As a neurophysiotherapist & the client group i work with, sometimes i forget the intricacies of movement - so am very grateful for this🙏🏽🙃
i love that these are classic movements in yoga and now I understand why!!!
I like the Kneesovertoes program, but struggle with the lack of anatomical expertise in their videos. This is the type of information thats needed to help support more individuals. Too many hurts themselves by forcing something when there are better alternatives.
I have limited dorsiflexion in my right ankle due to a severe sprain I suffered a long time ago. This has caused my right leg to be much weaker, and I also experience knee pain. I always thought it would be difficult to regain adequate dorsiflexion, but just one cue you shared (internal tibial rotation + foot pronation) immediately helped improve my range of motion. Thank you so much for sharing this.👍
So helpful ! Many thanks!!!!💕 can u do a vid for AIC FLAT back pattern please?
Ben Patrick saved my life. Simple. Life changing. Easy. Skip the doctor. Do the reps.
You have also saved my life but in a different way. I'll never understand your system, hip impigments, self diagnosis, etc. but, I do still do KOT exercises 3 years after taking the program. Everyday.
Tibial, foot, femur rotation. Don't have it. Have no idea how to get it. I've watched 100's of your videos. Don't have all the tools. Don't have a way to self diagnose. Etc.
I do what I can when I can from what I can understand. I have a two second attention span because of RUclips.
Appreciate the thoughts - I tried to make it clear within the title and at the end of the video I think his program can and does work. But I’ve talked to many whom it hasn’t and this video is for them
Great video have been waiting for a critique of the hype
"do this first" would be accurate (for everyone - if they're not a challenge, then sure move on from corrections to conditioning), still emphasizes the brilliant subtlety in your work to make genuine change in long held habits/positions, but doesn't into the conflict based click bait of others (whoch doesn't fit with your therapeutic approach of replacing body conflict with breathing and calm change). Great work that every sports coach should aspire to understand even they can't apply yet.
I am in a knees over toes program and its really healing my knees.
And he has programs for every part of the body.
Elbows, wrists, ankles everything.
I recommend it to everyone.
I have started walking backwards MORE since I saw one of Ben's videos and it has helped my knee pain a lot. I have been afraid to try any of the lunges or squats yet. Still trying to increase my time/consistency on backwards. I wish that either Ben or Conor was close to check out my angles and tell me what my exact problem is. Pretty sure it is my hip rotation.
@@ohno6955
Backwards walking 15 minutes
30 tibialis raises
30 straight legged calf raise
30 tibialis raise again
30 bent leg calf raise or KOT calf raise
30 patrick step both legs
5 sets 5 reps atg split squat
This is the zero program
Do this on Mon. Wed. Fri.
And stretch your calves, hamstrings, quads, tibialises and splits on Tue. Thu.
What about ability 0 and all the regressions for the ATG split squat?
The most regressed version of the ATG split squat is simply walking backwards as Ben keeps preaching in all his videos. I think anyone has the ability to do that.
Maybe some people can not perform his program might be because they skip to the hardest variation and are looking for quick fixes.
I have a knee injurie and I use the backward sled walking as a warm up and I am so grateful for it because it took my pain away and I have the ability to handle heavier weight in the gym and enjoy the workouts.
it seems like a lot of people just want to skip to the good stuff and ignore their weaknesses, i recommended knee ability zero to a friend and he was complaining about not being able to to full ROM on the ground and skipping the split squat entirely, but he forgot to go through the progression stages where you start at a raised level where you actually can get full ROM to your foot with your glutes, which he started doing and instantly felt success and strength grow in his knees and legs.
I have to wonder - for these people who ATG didn't work for, how many signed up for the program and actually received coaching versus just seeing a few RUclips videos and trying the most advanced form of the exercise?
Me! I had the program for 6 months, FREQUENTLY asked questions to the coaches, and saw minimal progress. I’m not saying it won’t work for others, but for me it was very disappointing especially since I was so dedicated to it
Me. It worked really well for knee strength for me until week 3, in which I experienced right lower leg outside pain at the bottom of a split squat. Note: I had no problems doing split squats with the left leg.
Working through Conor’s program I realized I had limited dorsiflexion and my tibia at the the time was not able to access full internal rotation. Going back to ATG now I’m sure I wouldn’t have the same issues.
@@bzzrkdbzzrkd6983 did Conor’s program decrease your knee pain? If so, which program? Thanks
@@bzzrkdbzzrkd6983 so how are you doing now?
@@samshermalhi9396how are you making progress?
Thank you!! I can barely go past 90 degrees on my left knee and have always felt like the rotational aspect was the problem. This also seems like this could be the missing link to the ATG program for me. I will have to try these exercises.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he suddenly incorporates it into his program
@@johanesterhuizen1842 he has always been changing this ideology and switching his exercise recommendation based on feedback and what works/doesnt work so probably yeah
Thanks for this video, I'm wondering if this would help people with "knock knees"?
Does anyone know what is this skeleton model ?
Thanks for your videos, it's pretty amazing and help me alot with my patients !
I tore my meniscus doing the knees over toe exercises. 😢
Finally recovered using rehab exercises. Will definitely try these tomorrow.
can you tell me what happened exactly
Would you please make video(s) on Osgood Schlatter Disease & how to overcome from the pain for adults?
best of both worlds
Conor Looking jacked!
Hi Conor. I wore some Altra running shoes because they were what I could find locally that was low and wide toe box. I wore them many times but something happened when I decided to wear them to start my walking routine. My big toe has been numb, almost like a pinched nerve but I have no pain just irritation. My Chiropractor says that it’s my metatarsal and to wear a pad. But I feel like that’s just a bandage on the problem. Can you please offer any insight? Thank you so much. Loving your videos btw
Hi Coner,
Do you have an explanation for the crackling coming from the knees?
Hey Conor, I can feel that transition of my weight from the inside ball of the forefoot doing exercise #2, but I'm having a hard time working that same feeling into my actual stride. Do you have any recommendations for that?
Rain solves drought, flooding makes it worse. Health is non linear, obsessive/extreme anything ends up badly
would you ay this is needed after a sparin or rolled ankle cause it force the tibia into extreme external rotation drastically?
So I had trouble with the atg programm and I think I should have done more of the mobility routines more often. One of the coaches said in the beginning they are even more important. I found it weird tbh because in the beginning I thought I need more Split squats. Stoppen the programm and focusing on foot health and stretching now. Will incorporate These 2 exercises starting today
Hi, what do you do if you have teh opposite problem not enough external tibial rotation, and too much tibial internal rotation? would you just grab the tibia and twist it from the lowest position coming up only?
I have Hallux Rigidus on my big toe which makes it very hard for me to feel my knuckle on the ground. Do you have any suggestions on what I can do to help my pronation?
What is your take on walking backwards to strengthen muscles around the knee and heal knee pain and even serious knee injuries?
I would love to hear Conor's answer also but I will say that I have started walking backwards MORE since I found atg a few weeks ago and I do have less knee pain. That in itself is a big YAY!
I'm 21. I've recently joined a gym and while on the elliptical running machine, I've noticed when I pointed my toes forward, my legs are slightly bent outwards from below the knee. I guess this is called knee valgus. For years I've always had my toes pointed outwards or laterally while walking and standing so I've never noticed that my legs were not straight. I can stand with both my ankles touching just fine and my knees are in contact too when I stand like that. It's barely noticeable on normal every day clothing and only noticeable when I'm wearing shorts and that too if I pay attention and point my toes forward.
Will continuing my workout routine in proper form with feet parallel to each other and toes pointed forward make my knee valgus worse? Including the elliptical running machine and squats and other leg workouts. Or should I do all my workouts with toes pointing outwards which happens to be the natural form for me? Will this make the knee valgus worse? I have no knee pain and I can walk for miles without any problem.
This is all great …except Ben preach’s that you progress thro the ability till you achieve the ability….which will get you there eventually
KOT (not necessarily the program itself) is for everyone at differing levels. The problem is like with everything - too much too fast will fuck you up!
Perfectly stated
My sacroiliac joints are torn. I can’t do his split lunge exercise AT ALL. It kills me.
Combining what I've learned on this channel with Ben Patricks training philosophy has been by far the most optimal both for myself and the clients I've had
It's a shame that RUclips necessitates the click-bait title and thumbnail for this video to get the traction it deserves
I hear you. This is what I replied to another comment: I tried to make it clear within the title and at the end of the video I think his program can and does work. But I’ve talked to many whom it hasn’t and this video is for them
@@conorharrisThank you so much. ❤ I am one of them 🙋🏼♂️
I'm nearing my wit's end with my ankles. I feel like I've been working on these exercises for a over a month now with no lasting change. Its to the point where its ruining my relationship with lower body days because I cant emphasize quads due to lack of ankle mobility. Only think I can really do is leg extensions. With the first exercise, my tibia is NOT letting me turn it. During the second exercise.. i just feel like my hip moves outside my foot, and my knee wants to dive it. I actively resist it, but it feels like I'm emphasizing what you try to avoid in the first. I have long legs and to be able to perform a squat I need a pretty substantial heel elevation.
Can these be done if you pronate as a compensatory strategy?
I got the vid on .75 speed. Gosh he is advanced . I wish I could catch all of what he is saying
I got full knee flexion again after the tibial rotation but after an hour or so, I'm back to having that 'blockage' where something seems to be stopping my knee from going full range again. What could be the problem?
I think if you can't hold new ROM it's usually because the muscle required to hold it is too weak. So perhaps you should couple these exercise with immediately following it up with some strengthening?
@@thund3rzzz813 gonna give it a shot maybe it works!
Can make a video on flat back
Q. Why the band?
Im proud to say i followed conor since around 5k subs
Does head over heels work though?
Most Times, no
You should actually learn his total program since everything you pointed out is addressed in his knee over toes program.
This is a progressive program that starts with the assumption that the new client can not move into or utilizes these full movements.
The client is taught not to move into or utilize any position or movement that causes pain which keeps the client very safe.
With that said personally I prefer Functional Patterns and Eldoa as they have greatest clinic and real world results.
Don’t throw bricks in glass houses 👍🏻
The main problem with no pain approach is that just because there isn’t pain now, it doesn’t mean that it is the right biomechanical movement for you
I agree with the other comment. The knees over toes program does not account for mobility. I told my physio about some of the exercises and they were wholly inadequate for my mobility standard even though I didn't have pain. I'm also taller so the positioning of my movements is different. Rather than go with a one size fit all solution, realize body mechanics is more complicated than just do it unless it hurts.
Maybe i am wrong here, buddy, but i dont think ben patrick goes as deep down the chain as conor does. I mean..does he talk about the calcaneus or his overarched low back? And his other videos about shoulders and stuff are just an afterthought.
Love his sled stuff though.
A band on a hairy leg hurts like hell
biomechanics first always!
Unfortunately that won’t sell programs or IG likes , so people look past it mostly
I'm starting with a sports medicine consultant soon but just thought I'd highlight the strange biomechanic issues I've had.
- Previously I had sciatica like pain in the back of my knees. No spine issues seen at MRI, completed core work. No major issues from knee scans either.
- following this I had shoulder impingement that was noticed to be some nerve like pain around the anterior part of both shoulders. Close to corocoid process.
- improved posture following a better exercise from a shoulder consultant and within 2 days shoulder nerve pain went and sciatica pain came back immediately in the back of both legs, twitching, everything with symptoms similar to spinal stenosis. Still no compression on Spinal MRI, no issues with disks, spinal joints or spinal cord. Strong core and glutes, but probably too strong hip flexors. Basically forward posture from impingement seemed to stop leg like sciatica symptoms, but returned after improving posture.
Spinal consultant didn't seem concerned about posture in spite of my mid back curve. Head was inline with feet and no excessive lordosis.
If Ben Patrick do collab with Conor Harris that would benefit hundreds of millions, problem is Ben is too religious about his ATG. Add to the team PJFPERFORMANCE Paul FABRITZ and we have actual proper programming that scales.
Im sorry but tibial internal rotation should NOT be happening at the knee joint at all! Less is better, not more. You want the kneecaps to be tracking vertically without lateral movement. What youre looking for is increased tibial rotation capacity at the ankle joint. You only mentioned pronation at the ankle joint, which is also important, BUT it needs to be coupled with rotational capacity of the tibia. Thats where most people lack proper mobillity. This also allows people to externally rotate their femur´s while keeping their tibia in line, which it should as a simple hinge joint.
Being mobile at the ankle joint in both flexion and rotation is the key. In fact you do NOT want tibial internal rotation coupled with pronation in the ankle joint, as that forces rotation at the knee joint. In fact you want a neutral heel and the weight to be distributed evenly between the heel and base of your big toe and small toe. Also, we are working with maximum flexion at the knee , hip and ankle joint when squatting. What youre describing works dynamically while running with 30% of the ROM ( dynamic internal rotation of the tibia and pronation of the foot), but it does NOT translate to deep squats. I cant count how many knees i fixed by REDUCING tibial rotation at the knee joint and increasing it at the ankle joint, while prohibitting exessive pronation or supination of the foot and ankle.
If there was internal rotation at the ankle but not the knee that would mean the knee would be caving in sharply🤣
How do you reduce tibial internal rotation at the knee joint ?
I'm dunking after a major knee injury because of KOT. The key is progressive overload.
Yea I'm not sure I trust this cultish PRI doctrine anymore.. I used the pattern analysis to basically counteract mine seated and sleeping. That helped a bit. But nothing changed my posture as significantly, and rapidly and permanently as progressive overload with intuitive counteracting mind-muscle focus.
@@jwatson181from your sentence it sounds like KOT caused the injury.