Is 9th Edition Warhammer 40k Too Complicated? - The Endless Cacophony Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2021
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I really love these. Just open, honest and wildly funny conversations that sometimes stay on track. It's my kind of mushroom. I must get in contact with you guys and find out a way we could do things together. I would love to do things with you. Snuggles
my main issue isnt that the game or rules are complicated. its that i need to check 5 books 6 faqs and read some tea leaves to actually have all my rules
It's all about breaking people in slow. I can see how a new player could be easily overwhelmed. As an example I got a buddy started. We played 1000ish point games using only primary objectives and simple terrain. If there's one thing I would say is overly complicated it's the 9th ed it's the terrain rules.
My first Admech Game, I realized after getting tabled that I had not used a single canticle. I learned that day.
There's a benefit to layers: You can take them off. My brother and I haven't played for a long while. Last weekend we finally got to play again and he played Necrons for the first time. So we actually played without command points, stratagems, command protocols, combat doctrines,... Just to get the basic mechanics right. And next time we'll add some more elements.
If you gradually add more layers is actually not that complicated and it adds more depth to the game as wel.
I don’t think it’s too complicated for veteran players. Entry level players it’s a little daunting. My son started Necrons (age16) and it was a learning curve but he had a strong foundation of veteran players.
I think it suffers more from making it super hard to play multiple armies and be efficient.
The game is too much like MtG now with all the super duper wombo combos.
Liam you must check out the movie Lethal Weapons Ancient Times… Danny Glover falls into a time trap and goes back to team up with Sir Galahad (played by Mel Gibson) versus the Grey Knight… irs epic !!!
I invited some buddies from work over to have a game of 40k. These are guys who's gaming experience doesn't extend beyond regular boardgames such as catan etc. So no RPG's either of any sort.
As it turned out, if you've never played anything remotely related to 40k then it is a very hard system to get into. Even just the stats. They had fun, but basically I had to tell them what to do each turn (small(er then a) patrol game). Not just in terms of telling them the stats, but repeatedly explaining the stats and just precisely telling them what to do with each unit. They were just at a loss and overwhelmed by all the information.
It was pretty eye-opening, as my other friendgroup are all GW veterans from either Mordheim, WHFB, 40k, necromunda etc. So when we picked up 8th there was this immediate familiarity with the system. But having no experience with these systems at all makes even 8th a pretty daunting experience. My work buddies asked questions I had never even considered anymore as they tried to wrap their heads around the rules. Again, it was fun, and they wanted more, but the whole time they had no clue what to do without me telling them exactly what and how to do it (one guy started getting the hang of the hit and wound rolls but that was it).
So is 9th 40k too difficult? Well it's certainly not easy. If I now imagine my buddies coming over again and having to build up towards 9th I think it will be a long and difficult process.
As someone who came back for 8th and then 9th the main issue I have had is book overload. The charadon books coming out at the same time as codexes is pretty insane. That being said it's a breeze compared to 5th, 6th and definitely 7th
I think it's walking a fine line at the moment. Easy to start but a huge amount of buffs and tweaks that can make creating different lists really interesting. You just need to bring a notebook with you!
Yes it's become more complex with the codicies adding extra layers of complexity on top. You shouldn't need a note book to help you through each turn.
Don’t all Space Marines go through the same training structures. So every specialist unit of marines would have once been in a tactical squad? So narrative wise they’ve all had the training and experience to receive the benefits or the core keyword rules? Just a thought on why narratively it could make sense to have so many core units where other factions do not.
Kabul? We may have used the same portapotty
Yes its too complicated.
The way I look at it is it's not snakes and ladders.
I think one fuck up they made, IMO, is not making a core chaos space marine codex with supplements, like SM's. So now unless every legion gets it's own codex, like death guard, it's gonna be crap. It'll make it more "complex" but at this point better, now. If they had released a "chaos codex" just after/at the same time as the SM's one, they would be on a good path now.
Essentially the complexity has been shifted from the core rules to the codex rules. I don't think as a whole it is more complex or less, or something like that, maybe, who knows, whole place is a mess anyway, dad says it gives people jobs, every time my son borrows the car it comes back stinking like a filthy ashtray.....
Every space marine is a space marine. doesn't matter what gun is in its hands. So if the space marine is core, it does not matter what gun is in its hands.
At the core of every space marine is... a space marine which is the core of the space marine.
I don't think it's complicated at all. In fact 8th and 9th have been simplified just enough that it has become much more playable and enjoyable than 7th edition was. It is also a much better rules set for newer players.
^This^
It’s a nightmare for dyslexics
here is the other thing, your talking that the armies and rules are complicated if you want to win and be comptetitve. you can play necron warrior spam with using just the reanimation rules and not worry about aura and complications. If you want to optimize choices and play the game at a certain level, then you need the skill to learn and remember the rules. remember the basic rules are just the 11 pages.
I Don't think 40k is to complicated. I think it gets to expensive
Most of the complexity is unlocked by creating a battle-forged army, which isn't something you *have* to do. I certainly wouldn't introduce a new player with those extra layers of complexity until they became comfortable with the basic mechanics first.
core is infantry and used to be infantry. redemptors used to be infantry that go shoved in a dreadnought. this logic works for 90% of the time
you guys rock
Yup, the game is far too complicated, it's way better suited to set that complexity in a PC game, which doesn't exist. Also any type of Crusade/rpg setting, better suited to a PC turn strategy. Most players want fun, then way on the other end it's this level of complexity and depth that just isn't fun for most gamers. It's like, get into killzone, or match play preset equal fair combat patrol rosters, that's a fair balance but it's not being promoted or run well by GW, cuz $$$ dosh.
40k too complicated xD? Imagine playing 9th age then