This was a really fun video! The criticism I have with your methodology is that it's a wisdom in the community that no two SID chips actually sound the same! To get a truly scientific conclusion, perhaps you could take a control group of 5 SID chips compared to one OG SID, then 5 SIDkicks compared to the same SID, and average out the differences in dB between the two with the appropriate statistical analysis - time consuming, but we would then REALLY have our answer 😅
@@homerghost but I do have a live and this proves already that their damn close. Too close to hear except for the levels. 🤣 And also then the filters will be the deviation. As indeed they are analogue and very different, especially since the caps for the filters are even outside of the SID. Sometimes you don’t need to deep dive 😁The filters will be slightly different and the oscillators are very close. sidkick pico is therefore a good replacement 😉
Very nice of Wolfgang to send you the SidKick! I am surprised that it is as close as it is, given processing delays built into the Pico. Possibly the C64 SID is impedance matched with the hardware of the C64. But in any case there really isn't any difference in the two. Clever putting them 180 degrees out of phase. And it would be interesting to see two OG SIDs compared. I wonder if there is any "drift" from the SIDs after all this time?
Hi!!! Thanks and yes Wolfgang is awesome 😎 I’m very happy with such a next country neighbour. I too am very amazed as to how close they are! I think that timing issue is actually the sidkick playing just a tiny bit longer btw. I’ve been peeking the wave forms a lot. The time is too long to be interrupt based. But it’s short enough that we mere mortals will never hear. It would be interesting to see two SIDs and perhaps even compare the old and the new SIDs. But I doubt I’ll ever doing to do that. It’s just too tedious 😆 But wow, this thing is so spot on. I’ve heard it on other channels and I was already amazed! It’s so close that I wouldn’t hear the difference -except for the level it’s a lot softer. I had to crack up my TV from 20 to 35 to get a similar sounding level. But if that’s the only complaint, I’m like: “this is winner!”
This actually happened in primary school when we had to make light and bell circuits. And a girl, Patricia couldn't find anymore black cables. So she went to the teacher and he was like. And he was like: "do electrons have eyes?" -she said: "I don't know sir, I never seen an electron" "They are subatomic particles, do you think that those have eyes? and can see the color of the insulator they are flowing through?" Then she caught and she said: "so I can use any colour cable, then!" -"Yes, if you've learned one thing today, electrons don't do apartheid".
Might be interesting to see the difference from SID to SID and also compare the ARMSID and the SWINSID (although we all know what the SWINSID will look like.)
@@networkg well, go ahead 😃I’m not interested in look deeper into it. As the ARMSid is as expensive as a SID replacement overhere. And SIDs are still easily findable on the used market here.
You should try different SIDs, they can be very different. On the ArmSID you can adjust the filters to match your preference, the same should be possible on the SideKick. I have a Reloaded MKII with both 6581 and 8580 where I can switch on the fly and I find them to be so different I'll switch SID to match the game/SID tune. Some music sounds the same on both but except for that I find them kind of incompatible with each other.
Yeah the 6581 and 8850 sound completely different! I’ve always been partial to the technically words 6581. Hence I bought this breadbin because all other systems except my clunky SX64 have the 8580. I think that the default modeled filter isn’t bad. It just has a different response because it’s too perfect. I didn’t know you could possibly change them in software. I’ll have a look at that. As a synthesizer geek, I think that the filter is the most important part. And no digital system has modeled the perfect digital filter. Even with random offsets and drift patterns etc it won’t be exactly the same as an analogue. But in all fairness nothing you’d notice by just listening. If the seller had put this sidkick pico in, instead of the (terrible) swinsid. Than I’d probably didn’t hear it was a sidkick pico. It sounds so good. If I’ll ever get an ARM Sid I will do a similar test. But I don’t expect “”/“””a different conclusion. Remarkable times with live in when it comes to computing power in small packages. And the treatise people making these solutions.
Definitely the SIMSid really sounds nowhere near a SID. Very clean filter. I have no idea what the ARMSid is like but this for me is the open SID or choice. As it’s also dirt cheap to make.
@@CallousCoder I've made the sidkick but havnt been able to get it working yet, so opensid or sidkick are the ones to go for? Be good to hear/see a comparison...cough!
@@CallousCoder it's being used in a synthesizer module, not an actual C64 so there are chances it just doesnt work in this situation. Going to go back and check it again when time permits.
This was a really fun video! The criticism I have with your methodology is that it's a wisdom in the community that no two SID chips actually sound the same! To get a truly scientific conclusion, perhaps you could take a control group of 5 SID chips compared to one OG SID, then 5 SIDkicks compared to the same SID, and average out the differences in dB between the two with the appropriate statistical analysis - time consuming, but we would then REALLY have our answer 😅
@@homerghost but I do have a live and this proves already that their damn close. Too close to hear except for the levels. 🤣
And also then the filters will be the deviation. As indeed they are analogue and very different, especially since the caps for the filters are even outside of the SID. Sometimes you don’t need to deep dive 😁The filters will be slightly different and the oscillators are very close. sidkick pico is therefore a good replacement 😉
Awesome! I was thinking about recording it into a .wav and compare that in some audio program. I was just to lazy :-) Thanks for taking the time!
Thanks! And thanks for the package!
Yeah it’s a tedious long lasting process.
Very nice of Wolfgang to send you the SidKick! I am surprised that it is as close as it is, given processing delays built into the Pico. Possibly the C64 SID is impedance matched with the hardware of the C64. But in any case there really isn't any difference in the two.
Clever putting them 180 degrees out of phase.
And it would be interesting to see two OG SIDs compared. I wonder if there is any "drift" from the SIDs after all this time?
Hi!!! Thanks and yes Wolfgang is awesome 😎 I’m very happy with such a next country neighbour.
I too am very amazed as to how close they are! I think that timing issue is actually the sidkick playing just a tiny bit longer btw. I’ve been peeking the wave forms a lot. The time is too long to be interrupt based.
But it’s short enough that we mere mortals will never hear.
It would be interesting to see two SIDs and perhaps even compare the old and the new SIDs. But I doubt I’ll ever doing to do that. It’s just too tedious 😆
But wow, this thing is so spot on. I’ve heard it on other channels and I was already amazed! It’s so close that I wouldn’t hear the difference -except for the level it’s a lot softer. I had to crack up my TV from 20 to 35 to get a similar sounding level. But if that’s the only complaint, I’m like: “this is winner!”
I lol'd at the RCA cable bit, I actually had people ask me that for real.
This actually happened in primary school when we had to make light and bell circuits. And a girl, Patricia couldn't find anymore black cables. So she went to the teacher and he was like. And he was like: "do electrons have eyes?"
-she said: "I don't know sir, I never seen an electron"
"They are subatomic particles, do you think that those have eyes? and can see the color of the insulator they are flowing through?"
Then she caught and she said: "so I can use any colour cable, then!"
-"Yes, if you've learned one thing today, electrons don't do apartheid".
Might be interesting to see the difference from SID to SID and also compare the ARMSID and the SWINSID (although we all know what the SWINSID will look like.)
@@networkg well, go ahead 😃I’m not interested in look deeper into it. As the ARMSid is as expensive as a SID replacement overhere. And SIDs are still easily findable on the used market here.
You should try different SIDs, they can be very different. On the ArmSID you can adjust the filters to match your preference, the same should be possible on the SideKick. I have a Reloaded MKII with both 6581 and 8580 where I can switch on the fly and I find them to be so different I'll switch SID to match the game/SID tune. Some music sounds the same on both but except for that I find them kind of incompatible with each other.
Yeah the 6581 and 8850 sound completely different! I’ve always been partial to the technically words 6581. Hence I bought this breadbin because all other systems except my clunky SX64 have the 8580.
I think that the default modeled filter isn’t bad. It just has a different response because it’s too perfect. I didn’t know you could possibly change them in software. I’ll have a look at that.
As a synthesizer geek, I think that the filter is the most important part. And no digital system has modeled the perfect digital filter. Even with random offsets and drift patterns etc it won’t be exactly the same as an analogue. But in all fairness nothing you’d notice by just listening.
If the seller had put this sidkick pico in, instead of the (terrible) swinsid. Than I’d probably didn’t hear it was a sidkick pico. It sounds so good. If I’ll ever get an ARM Sid I will do a similar test. But I don’t expect “”/“””a different conclusion.
Remarkable times with live in when it comes to computing power in small packages. And the treatise people making these solutions.
I've been looking for a sim - SID for use in a eurorack synth module, is the sidkick the best option for open source?
Definitely the SIMSid really sounds nowhere near a SID. Very clean filter. I have no idea what the ARMSid is like but this for me is the open SID or choice. As it’s also dirt cheap to make.
@@CallousCoder I've made the sidkick but havnt been able to get it working yet, so opensid or sidkick are the ones to go for? Be good to hear/see a comparison...cough!
@@cr0wland did you upload the software and inserted it correctly into the SID socket?
@@CallousCoder it's being used in a synthesizer module, not an actual C64 so there are chances it just doesnt work in this situation. Going to go back and check it again when time permits.
Question is how similar 2 real SID chips are :)
@@RainerK. Hahaha well you know the method now, go for it 🤣