Check out TractorUniverse.com. A new website for communications on all brands of tractors. Sign up.. leave us a comment, check out the articles there! We avoided the 3 point hitch drawbar because the 3 point hitch floats and could potentially come up on its own. This would damage the expensive ($1000) CV/PTO shaft. Not worth the risk. This mower Is built to the ASABE standards. It If the tractor would conform to these well established standards, it would handle the mower fine…just like the Deere 2038r.
Let me know if you want to hook it up to a L4060. I have one, i will bring it over ( and a welding machine too) incase i need to do some drawbar modification
@@TractorTimewithTim Just another idea Tim, I’ve seen that they have three-point mounted bars (that only utilize the two side arms) that have holes in them for hooking up implements instead of the draw bar. Would that give you enough clearance on everything in order to hook everything up? The three point hitch should be strong enough to handle the tongue weight and with the bar being back further it should help with some of the clearance issues. Seemed as though you approached every angle in your video so I could tell you were determined! Just another idea for you. Take care!
As dad would say, use the right tool for the job. As versatile as these little tractors are, there simply are some applications they are not suited for. Appreciate the thorough process you show.
55 years of running tractors and mowers says, that tractor is not big enough to control that mower. You go to turn at the bottom of a hill or turn on a hill and it will be a disaster.
Well, in defense of Kubota and Rhino, that tractor was not designed to run that large of a mower and that mower was not designed to run on that small of a tractor. You have the nice larger 5 series JD that’s a good fit. A 4 series JD/other large frame compact would be the smallest tractor that really should be seriously considered for that Rhino mower.
The problem on the surface is this mower is rated for a minimum 25 pto hp tractor. but the thing is that 25 hp tractor needs a drawbar length of 14" from pto shaft and a certain height from the drawbar, and also meet the minimum tongue weight requirements which Rhino in their specs page list the tongue weight at 720 pounds. Tim measured at close to a 1000#. Most 25 hp tractors don't carry a tongue weight rating that high. So the rub is they advertise this mower for 25 PTO HP tractors but in reality it is built for 50 PTO HP tractors.
Not sure why you are blaming the mower. The mower meets ASABE standards…as I mentioned in the video. The Deere 2032R/2038R works well with the mower as it conforms to the standards set by the ASABE. The blame (if there is any) belongs squarely on the Kubota engineers for ignoring the standards.
Tim I am pretty sure ASABE standards are for AG tractors not compact tractors. I could be wrong but I don’t think Kubota ignored anything. By the way I don’t care which tractor someone buys. On our farm we have had almost every kind for multiple farms and they all get the job done.
@@brianbarclay4316 I don’t think that’s a fair interpretation. Kubota is very careful to design their products to match the capability of the tractor size. That’s why they don’t play the game of outrageous loader lift specs. They design their tractors and implements for sensible sized attachments that don’t either bend/break the tractor or kill the operator. I have a Kubota L4060, which is the next frame size up from the 3310), but still a compact tractor, and it has the spacing to fit this Rhino mower. The fact that the 3310 won’t fit it wasn’t an oversight.
I well remember your “Costly Repair on Deere 2038R” with a lesson that I took to heart. Your exhaustive perseverance on this application shows the considerations of connecting to a PTO driven implement. I was renting a fertilizer cart from a dealer, and thanks to your sound advice, I did measure to be sure I wouldn’t have a problem using it on my 4052R. I think we’ve all taken PTO connections for granted. Thanks for the information and yes, I did learn something. Good thing Katriel didn’t show the tongue weight with you on it on camera LOL! Thanks Tim, and blessings.
after watching you plow with a 3point at the farm with 3320 I bought a old JD 2 bottom to discover after attempts that it wasn't going to work fit and weight , lesson learned
@@TractorTimewithTim 3320 and the 3 pt arms too short for the old plow I bought also it was cat 2 and mine is 1 ,I think your demo was with Ferguson 2 bottom 2-12 #50 I ended up with 2 bottom trailer plows which work ok for me.My lesson was to measure and make sure of fit first thanks
I wanted to thank you for introducing me to the 10ft Ringo mower was lucky and put it on a MX5200 works great. The information that you have shown has been priceless
Couple of thoughts/options: - I don't know where we got it but about 40 years ago we picked up a PTO extension that would connect to the tractor and offer a standard PTO connection something like 8" out (we sold the farm in 2003 and auctioned off everything so can't take a picture of it). - we also replaced some of those oversized CV joints with a smaller OD Double Cardin joint, like you'd see on the front driveshaft on a1970 to 1988 Chevy K20 front driveshaft to make some PTO's fit (while keeping the smooth CV performance). - to hook up the drawbar one option is to use the 3-point hitch accessory with a standard 2" receiver opening (or 2-point bars with holes in them). Then use a standard 2" drawbar for a heavy trailer without a ball installed. We used that for attachments (and trailers behind a tractor) with tongue weights in the 2500+ lb range with no issues. One issue is you'll need one with a clearing in the center for the PTO, or you could consider one that only attaches to the 2 lower points. Personally I prefer the 3-point 2" receiver adapters over those 2-point bars with holes in them because they are considerably more robust, it is a full 2" receiver adapter (over just a bunch of holes) and the whole system is stable and can't rotate.
There was a simple remedy. Change that outrageously large CV joint for a smaller one that will connect to the PTO shaft. No tractor modification just modify the shaft. Tim it's simple. I am surprised again because you have such a good channel as to seeing you did not even consider the easiest way to solve the problem.
Thanks TTwT for a good job illustrating some key potential problems with attachments!! You just saved a number of people a great deal of money in not buying any attachment that requires these kinds of connections for operation. I know with OEM attachments coming from a dealer that I'm paying more but that OEM is assuring me that the selected attachment will work on that machine. Very solid job Tim!!
You don't realize the big differences between the two tractors, until you actually get into the thick of it. Thanks for the great information, and explanation!
My FIL spoiled me with JD 1025. Didn't realize what he got until I started watching these videos. I'm grateful that I don't have to fight switching attachments.
When you live on sandy loam, a single grain of sand can prevent simple slide-on. I used a tooth brush and greased the PTO constantly. I keep the PTO dry but I lube it. I also have to clean the other end and pulling back while pushing is complex at 74. It is very easy to attach with the quick PTO attachment you showed and simply swapping out the implement, you swap out that one end. Easy as it is all in your hands. Not down under and between... Smaller tractors have small PTO areas. I think that protection ring was a monster size. Thanks for the video. Sad you could not put that tractor to do that work and the other for other work.
Tim, Great information. Just this past month I visited the Kubota dealer to look at the tractor you tested. I never thought of the issue you discovered. Now I know. On another note, it sure is a treat to see Katriel on camera again. I think with all her knowledge and communication skills she should consider starring in her own "spinoff" from "Tractor Time With Tim". She may have to "dumb down" the content for people like me, but I know she has a lot to offer. I hope to be among her very first subscribers. Thanks.
Surprising video. Certainly something most buyer's won't look for when purchasing. I would have thought that a tractor in that class and above would have met the standards. Thank you for sharing.
All my years of selling tractors, I can't say that I've ever run into this when attaching a proper sized implement to a tractor. The idea was fun and all, but the application was totally wrong. Understand needing to detail the reasons why it didn't work because you had promised this, but should have pointed out how irrelevant it is unless you find it in a real-world application.
Neil, IMO the most relevant accusation was that Kubota does not adhere to standards and this is referring to the distance measured between PTO shaft and hitch. Truthfully, Kubota is painted in a poor light. Were you aware at time of sale that he intended to compare this tractor to the 2038R and were you in agreement this was a fair comparison?
@@maagjohn I'm traveling and not able to dig right now, but I suspect if we look we will find a another case where there are multiple standards bodies that are not in agreement.
Well to say this is not a real world application would be false to. The rino ag is rated to run on 25-60hp machines. Now most of us running a ts10 would be in the 40-60hp range most likely, but still not completely irrational to expect a tractor this size to at least be able to hook up to it. Tim brings 2 points to light that I don’t like about the kubota sub compacts. The short PTO length on the LX/BX series. I have had more busted knuckles trying to get the PTO hooked up on a LX/BX than even my 1953 TO-30. It needs to be 1/2 inch longer to not be so cramped against the case. I love the LX 3310. Kubota hit it out of the park especially with the cab option. I almost bought one this week. But at the end of the day I am leaning towards the 3046r. For 2 reasons. The tight rear end in the kubota and that incessant wine of the LX3310 hydrostatic trans. It’s exhaustingly loud esp in the cab. The Deere was much more quiet in the cab and I am willing to move up a size and 8k have a quiet operating station.
Looking at the spec sheet for the RhinoAg TS10 batwingit requires 25 PTO hp and is 2200 lbs in weight. Even if the batwing could fit you would be putting a lot of stress on your tractor that has 27 PTO hp max and is only 2500 lbs. This is one of the reasons I upgraded from a L3301 to a MX5400.
@@nervousordo If you tried a cab, it really is no different than open station unless you are breaking the lights, mirrors and scratching fenders currently. I bought an aftermarket AGRITAL, Italy for my MX and no woods issues (50 acres of trees) does require some trail trimming every 2-3 years. Have several large Ag tractors for haying but cumbersome for snow removal. The MX w/ cab is just right. I do not sell these all glass cabs, no benefit to me, just a FYI. If winters are no issue for you, then it may not be worthwhile.
I have never used that style PTO quick connect, but I have seen them work. If you put the tractors PTO in neutral, you can just hold it up to the adapter spinning the backplate. That makes it easy to line up. The whole operation seems too risky for even me. Interesting video.
Could you fabricate some sort of rig whereby you use a draw bar connected across the 3-point arms and even have that attached somehow back to the original draw bar to help support the load? That might even solve your draw bar setback requirement.
Thank you, Tim! Anybody considering using that kind of mower has been thoroughly enlightened and maybe helped deciding on their new tractor for the job. :-) Nice job!
hi Tim good video I just sat and watched it and thought that you can use a hole boom in your lift arms Then you will move the pull point further back and you will avoid the desolate weight on your drawbar and a hole boom here is a piece flat iron with pegs to mount in your lift arms with holes I could see that your a lawn mower have a fork in on the drawbar so you can easily use a hole boom
So, here's a thought. Why not use a 3-point drawbar along with the shaft adapter? It would solve all of the mentioned issues. The only problem that might arise would be that the shaft to mounting point distance could end up being too long.
Circa 12:35 I had a thought. It might just be the camera angle, and it might not work since the 3pt arms float, but ... By the time you added the pto quick change, are you far enough back you could mount a drawbar across the lower arms? Height control would solve for the vertical distance needed. If the front-rear placement wasn't quite right perhaps a cross bar with a 2" receiver and a custom welded drawbar. Would you be far enough back to clear the 3pt arms?
There is a risk that the lift arms would come up on their own as they are floating. If they were to come up, it would destroy the $1000 PTO shaft. I am not willing to take that risk.
@@TractorTimewithTim while I agree with not taking the risk, your stated objection can be overcome by blocking (several ways to do this) the 3ph from lifting.
@@TractorTimewithTim I understand and accept your point, but a simple chain would prevent the arms from raising. Personally, I thought the mower was too large for the tractor, just from what I saw in the video. It may have had the horsepower, but those mowers can push a small tractor around. Again, from what I saw. You are actually there. Good video.
What about a drawbar link in between your draft links. Then you could remove your sway bars and should be able to meet your requirements for your mower. And the draft linkage would be able to handle the tongue weight with ease. Love you channel as well Tim. Thank you for what you do.
Thank you Tim for getting me to see this video and it answered the problem you had trying to hook up the bat wing mower. Now I think you need a Ag tractor rather than a compact. You and I agree the 19” is to long for the tractor to handle the weight. Compact tractors has it’s limits. Thank you for getting me to see my mistake. Wayne from Wisconsin
Given the size and weight of the mower I’m shaking my head wondering why Rhino states such a low minimum HP spec. Surely some owners of the smaller compact tractors have regretted a purchase of one of these mowers. I bought a TS10 in part due to an earlier vid TTWT published and also because my dealer carries Rhino. I have my TS10 matched up to a 55hp 4 series red tractor. Some of my mowing involves steep hills and the mower definitely does not drive the tractor. I’d hate to think what might happen if I had a much smaller tractor in front of the mower… Love your channel! God bless!
You are correct. Many people try to do too much with too little. I'm a deere salesman, and I was surprised to see the 2038R handle that size mower, but I wouldn't want to use it on hills. For those of you on flat ground go for it.
Many have made valid points positive or negative. I'll wade in from the point of view of a sales professional in the industry with over 20 years experience. My biggest concern is the safety of my customers. I've seen people do some amazingly dangerous things with tractors simply because they don't understand what they are working with. Best advice I can give your viewers is watch Tim. He is doing a great job of describing in detail what he is doing. He's not raggin' on you for buying the wrong tractor. He is simply showing you what he can do with the equipment he has. Perhaps there is a similar mower available that your Kubota dealer can offer. If you are skeptical, ask your sales professional to show you how the machines you are interested in work together. Take your time, ask questions, and ask to see the machines work together. Sometimes even machines that are the same brand just don't fit right. Even more variables when you start mixing colors.
Kubota does sell what is called a hammer strap draw bar (2" drop), don't know if it will fit you model. You may want to check with the dealer if they have a longer PTO out put.
Hey Tim. One of the best videos you've made! You definitely brought some things to my attention that I may have glossed over when buying a new piece of equipment for my behind LS XR4145HC. Sometimes its not as simple as cutting your PTO shaft.
Nice plug for JD, Kubota and Ventrac!! I've seen this before.. People buying tractors that their implements don't work with.. Common mistake!! Hope Neil is watching 😄
I am not sure it is the fault of a sales person when the purchaser withholds info that they know upfront. I mean would you fault the trailer sales person for selling you a 10k trailer, when you withhold that you plan to haul 10k in weight? You come in and insist you want a 10k axle trailer. When asked what you plan to haul you say 10k will cover it. You insist even if the sales person says that the 10k axle setup includes the weight of the of the trailer above the axles so total capacity is closer to 7.5-8k.
@@coypatton3160 sometimes. Sometimes though,salesman fail to really specifically ask what the equipment will be used for or will not take into account the requirements. For example, a customer specified he needed a tractor for bagging and unloading baggs. That doesn't require a lot of horsepower but unloading will strain open center hydraulics that are common to utlity tractors. After repeatedly burning up hydraulic pumps, He did trade for a tractor with more horsepower than he needed but would satisfy his hydraulic needs.
@andrew @Coy. No, I don’t think the salesperson is to be blamed at all in this case. Now, if I had asked for the “smallest tractor which can operate a TS10”, and the salesman recommended the LX, that would be different. This is not the case. Neil is knowledgeable, honest, and helpful. He would not misdirect in that situation. I published this video for information purposes. The LX3310 is too small for this mower. Simple as that. No big deal. If you want to run a flex wing, get a bigger tractor. …or a 2038r Deere.
Hi Tim! I guess this topic was a touchy one for people. I chose a Kioti for specific reasons. When I first started looking, your channel was one of the channels I used for some of my research. You did a really nice review of the Kioti ck3510se hst. I'm not going to say why I chose this tractor over the others, but for what I need and use the tractor for, it is perfect. Tim, what I really like about your channel is some of the things you show and get into. This was another of those "things" that I personally wouldn't have looked into, but really interested me. Now, for me in construction, I don't use the 3pt all that often, and to use a backhoe, it's less expensive to rent a tracked machine than spend $9k on a backhoe. Long story short, whether its a Kubota, Deere, Kioti, or any other tractor, this episode showed not necessarily a deficiency but showed your caution and why. Anyway, you do a great job, I really enjoy your channel, I always look forward to everything you put out. Best wishes and God bless Tim!
Thanks for the kind words, Troy! I like the CK SE series, especially the cab versions. Unfortunately, Kioti has this same drawbar deficiency. Likely due to following Kubota religiously. Even tractors as large as the DK series still have the drawbar too close vertically to the PTO.
@@TractorTimewithTim thank you for the reply! I typically use loader only, with occasional 3pt use for box blade and land plane. That’s probably why the mechanical episodes are so intriguing to me. 😊. Btw, some of my favorites are when you’re with your family in IL. Just a sense of enjoyment I get watching them. 😊
Me personally I took this a project just to see if it worked......I didn't take it as a this is going to work and is a great idea..........seems like you put ALOT of time and thought into it. One thing that I didn't see brought up is leverage........yes a 1000lbs but add the length of the draw bar.......it's considerably more. Do love your videos on what you can actually accomplish with these tiny tractors
That is exactly how we intended it, Mike. Since we had made all of this effort, it seemed to make sense to explain what we had learned. Most of the time we end up with a workable solution with caveats. This time, we didn’t. Yes, the leverage issue wasn’t explicitly called out, but it was implied. I was willing to stretch the drawbar to 14”, but not to 19”…due to the additional leverage.
They make drop, draw bars. IE: L shaped draw bars that will lower the hitch from 2-8 inches. You can also make your own if your good at metal fabrication. Take a fresh peace of steal twice as long as your draw bar, add in a bend to lower it and another at 4 inches. This will give you a drop of 4 inches. together with the 3 inches above will give you 7 inches clearance. You can also lower your three point and attach a draw bar on it. Of course that is ONLY if it will go low enough under the pto to not cause issues. I do not know if the Kubota dose or not but on John Deere's you can pull out the PTO on the tractor and reverse it.
I’d extend it out the 19” and anchor the draw bar to either the frame or hitch with chain and turnbuckles. Kind of like how people do with hitch extension on pickups with the big cab over campers. Don’t give up lol!
Good info there, Tim. More stuff than most people would probably research first. Makes me want to look at my little Massey and pay more attention to what I am hooking up to it.
When implements have HP requirements, it also is implying a classification of tractor. This is a Cat 2 size of tractor implement. The low rating is in there for old tractors. There are many tractors of low HP that are the mass of a larger tractor. My 3720 isn't far off power wise from my TT60A but the TT60A is a full Cat 2 tractor in size. Where a 3720 is just a Cat 1. Yea, its got the HP to run stuff but it is under weight and size for things that the TT60A carry and run with no problems. Glad you didn't keep going just to make this work.
That is true, especially when you think something like a Farmall H (modified for hydraulics) would be large enough to handle the mower but does not have the hp.
Though another more modern example would be that Kubota, among others, have multiple sizes the tractors with the same 25 hp. Kubota has the BX, B, LX, and L series all with 25hp engines, so this mower clearly won't work with LX and smaller, it might be compatible with the L2501.
I’d love to hear whether there was specific intention behind these relative measurements, or if there was lack of forethought. As in, if Kubota were intentionally keeping people from trying to attach larger implements? I really appreciate the video!
I haven't spent any time with a LX (formerly known as a "Big B", as opposed to a "Small B") so I looked it up. Kubota claims it's a Category I hitch, but it definitely isn't. For what it's worth, I have the opposite a problem - an MX has a Category II, but implements seem to fall into Category I or Category III. Go figure. So I end up using a whole box of reducing sleeves. For what it's worth, the LX or the old Big B is really sold as a large homeowner machine. It's not a modern Agricultural machine by any stretch of the imagination. It's closer to a Farmall. And yes, a Farmall was considered an Ag machine for many, many decades, but not anymore. Anyway, 1000 lbs of tongue weight on a 2500 pound machine sounds like a bad idea, and 24 PTO horsepower sounds way too small for a 10 foot batwing. I have 42 PTO HP and a 6 foot brush cutter. 4 MPH is about all it will do in 3-4 foot grass. Any taller and the governor can't keep it at PTO speed (2350 RPM on mine) regardless of ground speed. I have to watch the temperature gauge as it is in the summer. Batwings use power more efficiently - the power required increases roughly as blade diameter squared - but 2 X (5*5) is more than 6*6, so I'm wondering how that 2038 is going to stand up to that mower long term. You must be running right at absolute upper limits much of the time, Tim. Best regards, and stay safe.
Although the LX3310 had a complete PTO geometry fail with respect to the TS10, I was curious about the weight of the LS10. I checked Rhino's TS10 online specs. Yes, the PTO HP requirement is listed at 25-60. There was no recommended minimum tractor weight, but the weight of the TS10 is listed as 2,190 lbs. Although you've successfully pulled the TS10 with the JD 2038R on what appeared to be mostly flat ground, that 2,190 lbs of the TS10 would sure push around a small, and probably even mid frame CUT on hills.
I like the pto link for the fact. The quick hitch adds length and it saved me from buying a shaft for one implement.. because said shaft was cut short to fit the length before the added length of the quick hitch and it didn't have a lot of extra wiggle room.
Yeah, the rear end of a Kubota is different than a lot of other tractors, I found that out on my BX. Most annoying thing was how short the lower end arms were. I had to saw off quite a bit of a PTO shaft to make anything fit and then you ran into the problem of pinching off implements and bending the PTO.
Use a draw bar on the three point lower arms it will keep you far enough away from the PTO and low enough from draw bar we had to do on our old 3010 johndeere with a old bushhog on my grandfather's farm
Tim great video. None of us would have known this if you hadn't purchased this tractor. This continues to prove why your decision to purchase this tractor with your own hard earned money has set you apart from everyone else.
Thanks for the kind words. I really don’t understand why the Kubota focused channels don’t see or understand issues like this. Fanboys just telling us how great everything is doesn’t really help us learn. We need more critical thinking .
Tim, why not use a draw bar in the 3pt? That would get your distance easily and allow you to drop to the desired drawbar to pto centerline; looked like there was plenty of room around the 3pt once you added the extender things(been around tractors for 30 years and somehow never seen those, seem pretty dumb under normal situations.)
just checked kubotas spec on there site and this tractor is rated at 1676lbs on the 3pt so from my arm chair this solution seems completely plausible and requires no fabricobbling!
@UCLFndeI09kfxpjP9hdLkNrg you do realize that yt picks and chooses whose comments to put where? It's not like they are placed in chrono order anymore(thanks algorithms.) So yes I did peruse the comment to see if someone had mentioned it ... I also have a pretty hard time swallowing that the 3 pt has a significant risk of suddenly raising 1000lbs but either way your rice bowl...
Looks like there is room under the tractor to put a square tube with flanges to bolt to the framing area that you can slide your drawbar in and out like a receiver on a pickup truck. Would be easy to build and use bolts and U-bolts to clamp it in place. The Kubota dealers should have a PTO adapter as well, or a complete PTO Shaft to interchange them out.
@@TractorTimewithTim From what I can see from the video (not a lot) you can modify the unit to use holes already in the tractor and where there is a place two u-bolts as straps/hangers as well, I was looking and saw at least four mounting points that could be used... But that an 50 cents could buy coffee in a cheap dinner... If you can post some better pictures of the underside, I can draw them up for you. Good luck from the cold of Alaska!
What is possible and what is prudent are two very different things. Running that mower on your JD is...possible. It's also possible to drive in a 16-penny nail with a tack hammer, but it isn't prudent. Guys have killed grizzly bears with a 22-caliber rifle, as well. This entire video could be summed up in one sentence: Match your implement size to your tractor and don't ask a sub-compact tractor to do more than they are truly designed to do.
Get a 3 point hitch draw bar from tractor supply for like $30 Then replace the pto shaft on the mower with one less complicated. That should solve all the problems you have.
Regarding the fancy PTO link: I'm developing arthritis in my thumbs and and concerned there may come a time when I cannot pull back the connector on the implement shaft. When that happens, I'm sure I'll be looking for something that does not required as much force from my thumbs.
Having been around Kubota compacts my whole life and recently purchasing Deere, I believe Deere's experience with larger tractors has spilled over into their compact tractor design to make things like this possible.
As a Kubota owner I agree. I have never seen a kubota in a feild in mid Michigan. At least in my area they are not popular farm tractors. Green, red and blue.
@@nervousordo underdesigned? Connect a JD auto connect mower deck then try the POS Kubota attempt at it and get back to me on who is under designing their products. I can give example after example of poor Kubota designs.
@@nervousordo kubota fan boys love to talk about their metal hood, but don't tell you the other body panels are absolute garbagr plastic. Much weaker than the JD glass filled polymer. Not to mention the bx hydrostat cooling fan.
I appreciate showing all the info. However, practically speaking, if I had another tractor available that would handle the mower, the first problem would have ended my efforts. I am glad once again I went with green when I bought a tractor.
Yep. This exercise is trying to prove the smallest machine(s) that I can use with this mower. This one proved too small. That is really the point here.
@@TractorTimewithTim When I ordered my lx tractor three months ago, I was asked by my dealer if I wanted the standard drawbar or the drop drawbar… I believe you will find it if you go through the build my kubota portion of their site, but I will see if I can find a part number for you in my parts or service manuals
Whoa! That looks like what I need! Still have the PTO issues. Maybe this drop down drawbar would stick out far enough for an adapter on the PTO… Unfortunately, looks like 2 months to get one. Not sure it is worth the effort!
Welcome to the world of mechanical engineering. Imagine trying to explain what you experienced here to a, non-mechanically inclined, marketing manager who imagines his/her career ladder being dependent upon you making this project viable! Been there ...
It gets better. At the companies I work for they sell that design (we make custom engineered products), and then talk to engineering about how to actually build it. That doesn't always go so well. Some times even having to back track with the customer because it just isn't possible.
What about a 3 point hitch drawbar. It would handle the weight, move the hitch point out and when you lowered it it would move the sway braces out of the way.
Thank Tim, for comparing the two. I look forward to your comparing the two rear end (sure seem they are not built the same). You also mentions in a previous vid that one road travels a lot slower than the other, it would be nice to see if there is a low end difference as well (is one lower geared than the other, given the 3 ranger versus 2). comparisons
Just food for thought. If you put a drawbar on the 3 point hitch would that get low enough plus back enough to work? I use a hitch on my 3 point all the time to move trailers around. Just back up, lift and move. No messing with the jack (did I mention I'm lazy?)
Definitely something I have learned so far with tractors, both through watching Tim before I even had a tractor, and now having watched a great deal of his and other videos (as well as bought a 2038r) it is very hard to gauge what will work and what won't on new small tractors. Especially for beginners (like me). Horsepower means almost nothing if used in a broad sense, I.E. I tried to figure out if I could fit the woods BH85 backhoe, it wanted 30-100 HP but listed very little else for requirements. Yeah I can't, talked to the company and they said the smallest they have might challenge my tractor. Still after getting to know my machine a little better I am even more sure that I made the right choice. Many of the jobs I do require squeezing as much tractor into as small of a forest path as possible, with my 2038 I can do it!
I currently own a LX2610 but I have owned Deeres previously. Kubota's are significantly lighter than Deeres for a given size. This works out well for me when mowing with a mid mount mower and not leaving ruts in the yard but it would be a significant disadvantage when trying to use a large rear implement. I am by no means a fan boy and my Kubota does what I need but I believe Tim was tying to show that the Deere 2038R could handle this mower and the Kubota LX3310 could not. Nothing more and nothing less.
@ Tractor Time with Tim Drawbar would work on L2501 so I'm assuming would work on L3301, and L3901 (same frame) but probably is still too close 6"from top of drawbar to center of shaft.
I'd imagine it might. I have no need at this point for such a large mower, and my 2501 would be short on pto hp anyway. Thanks for the video though, always good to learn what to look for when buying!
You could add an overrunning clutch to it. this would get cutter shaft so shield would work. You have to shorten the cutter pto shafts! We use one on our tractors with cutters!
Match the tractor to the implements or the Implements with the tractor A decision you'll have to make when making an expensive purchases have a day love from TEXAS
Tim, I was one that asked about this set-up. Thank you very much for this video. I was hoping this would work as I like the Cab set on the Kubota better then the open 2038r. However this option for a mower was high on my list. Again thank you!
Its interesting how different brands focus on different specs of certain applications. This was an attention getter. When i bought my 3E a few yrs back, even with all the research i did i still miss a couple of things. Biggest one was the 2 row sweet corn planter runs 38" rows (since 195?) and wiith the old Ford it tucks the rows comfortably between the tire tracks. With the 3E and R4 tires, theres about an inch to 1.5 inch overlap and it doesnt seat the seat correctly or cover it. Another lesson learned..........
I understand and argree with your 4 points. Obviously the mower isn't designed for a compact tractor. Could the cv joint be replaced with a different style (smaller) and the pto coupler also changed? That would involve repacing one half of the universal joint. Maybe hard but not impossible.
I think you are looking at this backwards. The mower is designed to a/the ASABE standard. The TRACTOR is not. The mower does not need to change, as it’s successful connectivity to the 2038r proves.
Pretty late jumping into this, but has anybody looked at the rated drawbar and rear axle capaciites of the 2038R? I think the drawbar weight limit is something like 550 lbs. - only half of what that mower will be putting on that long drawbar. The rear axle is rated for 2,400 lbs. Don't know the front/rear weight distribution of this tractor, but if it's something like 55/45, the bare tractor plus that mower will be around 2,100-2,200 lbs (not counting the operator of course!). Real world... it'll be right at the limit. Suggests to me that just because the the tractor and mower CAN fit together and operate, doesn't mean it's a great idea. Running a 2,000 lb mower behind a 2,400 lb tractor, particularly with half the weight hanging off the drawbar is not an optimal setup.
what about instead of hooking mower to draw bar you hook it to a tow bar attatched to the 3 point hitch. I believe that would give you the distance and a stronger point that would hold the 1000 lbs.
That design may be a feature, rather than a fault. Could be a bit of protection to keep the small tractor from being hooked up to equipment it wasn't intended to run, and thus less warranty claims for burned up PTO clutches or broken rear frames. I wonder if there is a larger tractor in Kubota's line up that has the same engine and fits the mower better that could be used for testing?
@@TractorTimewithTim Tim, mad is the wrong interpretation. You forced folks to think, & some to expose the fallacy of their kubota overprotective posture. Proper implement sizing will always be an issue, staging a discussion on the topic might save a life, or @ least a limb or two.
I may be crazy, but it seems like an alternative pto shaft between the tractor and mower would solve half your issues (smaller safety cone & fits kubota pto), and a lower, longer drawbar would solve the other half. I realize you're likley trying to point out the green is better than orange in this scenario; however there seems to be some simple work arounds that weren't brought up.
May be a dumb question, but can you not use a 3 point hitch drawbar? The 3 point should easily handle the weight. Or is the 3 point is not far enough out with the PTO connector?
could you have used an extended and offset draw bar with a cross drawbar support (both can be found at TSC) mounted in the drag arms along with the PTO link/connect adapters
I am loving these comments. I like deere and kubota.... little more on the deere side but I still like kubota. Everyone saying the kubota isn't sized for the machine so it isn't fair, and that if you need the big brush mower get a bigger tractor.... well I can tell you that not everyone can afford 3 tractors so people want a Swiss army knife, not a one trick pony. Kubota should have followed the standard so it would be compatible with industry standard. You have to understand that people might only need to use this mower 2 times a year so a smaller tractor that can mow the lawn, till the garden, get firewood, clean up a horse barn, carry small round bales, and still mow with a batwing then you have the perfect tractor. If you have a hobby farm and you need to mow a little bit... guys around here will buy this mower with only 1 wing instead of 2, its cheaper, smaller, less hp required, can mow under trees with one wing, and the wing is nice to get further into ditches without putting the tractor on such a lean. The municipality around here use to always run 1 winged mowers because the tractor would be on the edge of the ditch and the one wing would go further down the ditch, and not having the other wing ride on the road kicking up dust and being in traffics way was also a bonus... so people got to remember this bat wing may be on the bigger side... but if you take one wing of it would be perfect for mowing grass ditches so it's not irrelevant, this tractor should meet that standard, because this may be the biggest tractor someone needs and their is no reason you need to upsize your tractor for one implement when the other 5 jobs it does it is the perfect size for.
Seems to me the main fitment issues are the pto shaft design. Swap to one without that giant thing on the end and it would fit. Lowering the draw bar won't change the moment arm much so shouldn't be a big issue. Particularly if you move it forward slightly when you do it. The tongue weight and HP would be the limiting things IMO. I run a 6ft drum mower with 43HP and still have to slow down in heavy grass. This actually chews the grass up which is even harder. It the HP is there, a dolly could be put on the tongue to reduce vertical loading on the tractor. Really it is too large, but it could be made to work.
The size (diameter) of the axle shaft does not always indicate strength. The metallurgy has a far greater impact on strength than diameter. Check out Good Works Tractor video of 3-point lift comparison between Deere and Kubota. (also note the mower deck on the Kubota was being lifted too because it was not pinned up. 60” deck adds another 375 lbs!) If the Kubota axles were weak, it most certainly would have bent them with the incredible amount of weight. Behind the axle to boot.) ruclips.net/video/wk1kexRm7bY/видео.html
I have only seen one kubota with a bent axle in 2 years as a kubota dealer tech and that was on a bx that was dropped off a trailer going down the highway. The loader was tweaked so bad you couldn't take it off without a large hammer.
I think all these comments are great no matter what brand you like. People on here are commenting maybe even arguing. It shows us that Deere and Kubota are both great tractors. At the end of the day we all win when manufacturers compete to be the best. We the consumer get better products.
@Mike Berry I agree. We as consumers should LOVE the competition. Find something we like better about the completion, and push our favorite vendor to add it.
Great information as always Tim. I do like the sliding lower links on the Kubota, but the stubby PTO shaft and non standard spacing more than eradicate any 3 pt advantage over the Deere. The telescoping lower links are one thing I would like to see on the small JDs, even as an option. Perhaps there are after market items available? I get the call to hook and unhook the brush hog on my neighbour's 1025r. The mower can be pried about to get the line up, but it's fiddly and a bit physically taxing for this old guy. I find it a lot easier to hook up larger stuff on the JD ag tractors at home. Those tractors have telescoping lower links and I use them every time. I guess a quick hitch would imrove the 1025r hook ups, although I've read that those don't fit with all implements. Back to the Kubota, I find it strange that Kubota would ignore the standard. They do build lots of small to medium sized ag tractors as well and must be aware of the standard.
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We avoided the 3 point hitch drawbar because the 3 point hitch floats and could potentially come up on its own. This would damage the expensive ($1000) CV/PTO shaft. Not worth the risk.
This mower Is built to the ASABE standards. It If the tractor would conform to these well established standards, it would handle the mower fine…just like the Deere 2038r.
Let me know if you want to hook it up to a L4060. I have one, i will bring it over ( and a welding machine too) incase i need to do some drawbar modification
Yes, might be interested. Do you have the PTO/drawbar measurements I discussed in this video?
@@TractorTimewithTim i will get you one tomorrow morning.
I have a welding machine :-)
@@TractorTimewithTim
Just another idea Tim, I’ve seen that they have three-point mounted bars (that only utilize the two side arms) that have holes in them for hooking up implements instead of the draw bar. Would that give you enough clearance on everything in order to hook everything up? The three point hitch should be strong enough to handle the tongue weight and with the bar being back further it should help with some of the clearance issues. Seemed as though you approached every angle in your video so I could tell you were determined! Just another idea for you. Take care!
As dad would say, use the right tool for the job. As versatile as these little tractors are, there simply are some applications they are not suited for. Appreciate the thorough process you show.
55 years of running tractors and mowers says, that tractor is not big enough to control that mower. You go to turn at the bottom of a hill or turn on a hill and it will be a disaster.
Well, in defense of Kubota and Rhino, that tractor was not designed to run that large of a mower and that mower was not designed to run on that small of a tractor. You have the nice larger 5 series JD that’s a good fit. A 4 series JD/other large frame compact would be the smallest tractor that really should be seriously considered for that Rhino mower.
Yes but he tries to show what these smaller tractors are actually capable of…clearly the Kubota is not as capable as some others in this area.
The problem on the surface is this mower is rated for a minimum 25 pto hp tractor. but the thing is that 25 hp tractor needs a drawbar length of 14" from pto shaft and a certain height from the drawbar, and also meet the minimum tongue weight requirements which Rhino in their specs page list the tongue weight at 720 pounds. Tim measured at close to a 1000#. Most 25 hp tractors don't carry a tongue weight rating that high.
So the rub is they advertise this mower for 25 PTO HP tractors but in reality it is built for 50 PTO HP tractors.
Not sure why you are blaming the mower. The mower meets ASABE standards…as I mentioned in the video. The Deere 2032R/2038R works well with the mower as it conforms to the standards set by the ASABE. The blame (if there is any) belongs squarely on the Kubota engineers for ignoring the standards.
Tim I am pretty sure ASABE standards are for AG tractors not compact tractors. I could be wrong but I don’t think Kubota ignored anything. By the way I don’t care which tractor someone buys. On our farm we have had almost every kind for multiple farms and they all get the job done.
@@brianbarclay4316 I don’t think that’s a fair interpretation. Kubota is very careful to design their products to match the capability of the tractor size. That’s why they don’t play the game of outrageous loader lift specs. They design their tractors and implements for sensible sized attachments that don’t either bend/break the tractor or kill the operator. I have a Kubota L4060, which is the next frame size up from the 3310), but still a compact tractor, and it has the spacing to fit this Rhino mower. The fact that the 3310 won’t fit it wasn’t an oversight.
I well remember your “Costly Repair on Deere 2038R” with a lesson that I took to heart. Your exhaustive perseverance on this application shows the considerations of connecting to a PTO driven implement. I was renting a fertilizer cart from a dealer, and thanks to your sound advice, I did measure to be sure I wouldn’t have a problem using it on my 4052R. I think we’ve all taken PTO connections for granted. Thanks for the information and yes, I did learn something. Good thing Katriel didn’t show the tongue weight with you on it on camera LOL! Thanks Tim, and blessings.
after watching you plow with a 3point at the farm with 3320 I bought a old JD 2 bottom to discover after attempts that it wasn't going to work fit and weight , lesson learned
What tractor? How did it not fit?
@@TractorTimewithTim 3320 and the 3 pt arms too short for the old plow I bought also it was cat 2 and mine is 1 ,I think your demo was with Ferguson 2 bottom 2-12 #50 I ended up with 2 bottom trailer plows which work ok for me.My lesson was to measure and make sure of fit first thanks
Wow!, just amazing. You saved a lot of folks, a lot of grief, and probably taught some sales folks a thing or two! Thanks!
I wanted to thank you for introducing me to the 10ft Ringo mower was lucky and put it on a MX5200 works great. The information that you have shown has been priceless
Couple of thoughts/options:
- I don't know where we got it but about 40 years ago we picked up a PTO extension that would connect to the tractor and offer a standard PTO connection something like 8" out (we sold the farm in 2003 and auctioned off everything so can't take a picture of it).
- we also replaced some of those oversized CV joints with a smaller OD Double Cardin joint, like you'd see on the front driveshaft on a1970 to 1988 Chevy K20 front driveshaft to make some PTO's fit (while keeping the smooth CV performance).
- to hook up the drawbar one option is to use the 3-point hitch accessory with a standard 2" receiver opening (or 2-point bars with holes in them). Then use a standard 2" drawbar for a heavy trailer without a ball installed. We used that for attachments (and trailers behind a tractor) with tongue weights in the 2500+ lb range with no issues. One issue is you'll need one with a clearing in the center for the PTO, or you could consider one that only attaches to the 2 lower points. Personally I prefer the 3-point 2" receiver adapters over those 2-point bars with holes in them because they are considerably more robust, it is a full 2" receiver adapter (over just a bunch of holes) and the whole system is stable and can't rotate.
Tim have I ever told you how mellow of a person you are you seem to be all the time on your videos good quality of a person
There was a simple remedy. Change that outrageously large CV joint for a smaller one that will connect to the PTO shaft. No tractor modification just modify the shaft. Tim it's simple. I am surprised again because you have such a good channel as to seeing you did not even consider the easiest way to solve the problem.
Thanks TTwT for a good job illustrating some key potential problems with attachments!! You just saved a number of people a great deal of money in not buying any attachment that requires these kinds of connections for operation. I know with OEM attachments coming from a dealer that I'm paying more but that OEM is assuring me that the selected attachment will work on that machine. Very solid job Tim!!
You don't realize the big differences between the two tractors, until you actually get into the thick of it. Thanks for the great information, and explanation!
Looks like the designers wanted to protect fools from themselves.
My FIL spoiled me with JD 1025. Didn't realize what he got until I started watching these videos. I'm grateful that I don't have to fight switching attachments.
When you live on sandy loam, a single grain of sand can prevent simple slide-on. I used a tooth brush and greased the PTO constantly. I keep the PTO dry but I lube it. I also have to clean the other end and pulling back while pushing is complex at 74. It is very easy to attach with the quick PTO attachment you showed and simply swapping out the implement, you swap out that one end. Easy as it is all in your hands. Not down under and between... Smaller tractors have small PTO areas. I think that protection ring was a monster size. Thanks for the video. Sad you could not put that tractor to do that work and the other for other work.
Tim, Great information. Just this past month I visited the Kubota dealer to look at the tractor you tested. I never thought of the issue you discovered. Now I know. On another note, it sure is a treat to see Katriel on camera again. I think with all her knowledge and communication skills she should consider starring in her own "spinoff" from "Tractor Time With Tim". She may have to "dumb down" the content for people like me, but I know she has a lot to offer. I hope to be among her very first subscribers. Thanks.
Surprising video. Certainly something most buyer's won't look for when purchasing. I would have thought that a tractor in that class and above would have met the standards. Thank you for sharing.
Interesting video. I measured the drawbar-PTO distance on my LS2025 and it was 10”. The LS has not disappointed yet!
Vertical distance?
@@TractorTimewithTim Yes sir. Up and down. I have the back hoe option, not sure if that might make a difference.
bob
Cool.
All my years of selling tractors, I can't say that I've ever run into this when attaching a proper sized implement to a tractor. The idea was fun and all, but the application was totally wrong. Understand needing to detail the reasons why it didn't work because you had promised this, but should have pointed out how irrelevant it is unless you find it in a real-world application.
Neil, IMO the most relevant accusation was that Kubota does not adhere to standards and this is referring to the distance measured between PTO shaft and hitch. Truthfully, Kubota is painted in a poor light. Were you aware at time of sale that he intended to compare this tractor to the 2038R and were you in agreement this was a fair comparison?
@@maagjohn I'm traveling and not able to dig right now, but I suspect if we look we will find a another case where there are multiple standards bodies that are not in agreement.
Well to say this is not a real world application would be false to. The rino ag is rated to run on 25-60hp machines. Now most of us running a ts10 would be in the 40-60hp range most likely, but still not completely irrational to expect a tractor this size to at least be able to hook up to it.
Tim brings 2 points to light that I don’t like about the kubota sub compacts. The short PTO length on the LX/BX series. I have had more busted knuckles trying to get the PTO hooked up on a LX/BX than even my 1953 TO-30. It needs to be 1/2 inch longer to not be so cramped against the case.
I love the LX 3310. Kubota hit it out of the park especially with the cab option. I almost bought one this week. But at the end of the day I am leaning towards the 3046r. For 2 reasons. The tight rear end in the kubota and that incessant wine of the LX3310 hydrostatic trans. It’s exhaustingly loud esp in the cab. The Deere was much more quiet in the cab and I am willing to move up a size and 8k have a quiet operating station.
Looking at the spec sheet for the RhinoAg TS10 batwingit requires 25 PTO hp and is 2200 lbs in weight. Even if the batwing could fit you would be putting a lot of stress on your tractor that has 27 PTO hp max and is only 2500 lbs. This is one of the reasons I upgraded from a L3301 to a MX5400.
Robert charles, do you purchase a factory cab w/ the MX?🚜❓
@@billupstateny9151 No. open cab. Too many trees to risk busting glass.
@@nervousordo If you tried a cab, it really is no different than open station unless you are breaking the lights, mirrors and scratching fenders currently.
I bought an aftermarket AGRITAL, Italy for my MX and no woods issues (50 acres of trees) does require some trail trimming every 2-3 years. Have several large Ag tractors for haying but cumbersome for snow removal. The MX w/ cab is just right.
I do not sell these all glass cabs, no benefit to me, just a FYI. If winters are no issue for you, then it may not be worthwhile.
I have never used that style PTO quick connect, but I have seen them work. If you put the tractors PTO in neutral, you can just hold it up to the adapter spinning the backplate. That makes it easy to line up. The whole operation seems too risky for even me. Interesting video.
Your PTO has a ‘neutral’ position? That is good to know. Mine with mid PTO, we switch to ‘mid only’ to allow rear to spin freely.
Could you fabricate some sort of rig whereby you use a draw bar connected across the 3-point arms and even have that attached somehow back to the original draw bar to help support the load? That might even solve your draw bar setback requirement.
Thank you, Tim! Anybody considering using that kind of mower has been thoroughly enlightened and maybe helped deciding on their new tractor for the job. :-) Nice job!
hi Tim good video I just sat and watched it and thought that you can use a hole boom in your lift arms Then you will move the pull point further back and you will avoid the desolate weight on your drawbar and a hole boom here is a piece flat iron with pegs to mount in your lift arms with holes I could see that your a lawn mower have a fork in on the drawbar so you can easily use a hole boom
So, here's a thought. Why not use a 3-point drawbar along with the shaft adapter? It would solve all of the mentioned issues. The only problem that might arise would be that the shaft to mounting point distance could end up being too long.
Circa 12:35 I had a thought. It might just be the camera angle, and it might not work since the 3pt arms float, but ... By the time you added the pto quick change, are you far enough back you could mount a drawbar across the lower arms? Height control would solve for the vertical distance needed. If the front-rear placement wasn't quite right perhaps a cross bar with a 2" receiver and a custom welded drawbar. Would you be far enough back to clear the 3pt arms?
I had the same thought! May need to add front ballast.
There is a risk that the lift arms would come up on their own as they are floating. If they were to come up, it would destroy the $1000 PTO shaft. I am not willing to take that risk.
@@TractorTimewithTim while I agree with not taking the risk, your stated objection can be overcome by blocking (several ways to do this) the 3ph from lifting.
@@TractorTimewithTim I understand and accept your point, but a simple chain would prevent the arms from raising. Personally, I thought the mower was too large for the tractor, just from what I saw in the video. It may have had the horsepower, but those mowers can push a small tractor around. Again, from what I saw. You are actually there. Good video.
Excellent video!! These are the types of situations I get into and I love how this was documented and explained! Thanks Tim!
I like this kind of explanation. Looking forward to the comparison.
I want a Turf Rail and those tires.
What about a drawbar link in between your draft links. Then you could remove your sway bars and should be able to meet your requirements for your mower. And the draft linkage would be able to handle the tongue weight with ease. Love you channel as well Tim. Thank you for what you do.
Thank you Tim for getting me to see this video and it answered the problem you had trying to hook up the bat wing mower. Now I think you need a Ag tractor rather than a compact. You and I agree the 19” is to long for the tractor to handle the weight. Compact tractors has it’s limits. Thank you for getting me to see my mistake. Wayne from Wisconsin
Can you use a boom beetween your 3 point hitch arms to connect the mower to? We use that in Norway for the old haybalers.
Given the size and weight of the mower I’m shaking my head wondering why Rhino states such a low minimum HP spec. Surely some owners of the smaller compact tractors have regretted a purchase of one of these mowers.
I bought a TS10 in part due to an earlier vid TTWT published and also because my dealer carries Rhino.
I have my TS10 matched up to a 55hp 4 series red tractor. Some of my mowing involves steep hills and the mower definitely does not drive the tractor. I’d hate to think what might happen if I had a much smaller tractor in front of the mower…
Love your channel! God bless!
You have the perfect sized tractor for the mower. We’re just experimenting to find the minimum size.
You are correct. Many people try to do too much with too little. I'm a deere salesman, and I was surprised to see the 2038R handle that size mower, but I wouldn't want to use it on hills. For those of you on flat ground go for it.
Many have made valid points positive or negative. I'll wade in from the point of view of a sales professional in the industry with over 20 years experience. My biggest concern is the safety of my customers. I've seen people do some amazingly dangerous things with tractors simply because they don't understand what they are working with. Best advice I can give your viewers is watch Tim. He is doing a great job of describing in detail what he is doing. He's not raggin' on you for buying the wrong tractor. He is simply showing you what he can do with the equipment he has. Perhaps there is a similar mower available that your Kubota dealer can offer. If you are skeptical, ask your sales professional to show you how the machines you are interested in work together. Take your time, ask questions, and ask to see the machines work together. Sometimes even machines that are the same brand just don't fit right. Even more variables when you start mixing colors.
Wow, all of these seemingly non-standard things add up to a big WOH!
Kubota does sell what is called a hammer strap draw bar (2" drop), don't know if it will fit you model. You may want to check with the dealer if they have a longer PTO out put.
Hey Tim. One of the best videos you've made! You definitely brought some things to my attention that I may have glossed over when buying a new piece of equipment for my behind LS XR4145HC. Sometimes its not as simple as cutting your PTO shaft.
Nice plug for JD, Kubota and Ventrac!!
I've seen this before.. People buying tractors that their implements don't work with.. Common mistake!!
Hope Neil is watching 😄
I am not sure it is the fault of a sales person when the purchaser withholds info that they know upfront.
I mean would you fault the trailer sales person for selling you a 10k trailer, when you withhold that you plan to haul 10k in weight? You come in and insist you want a 10k axle trailer. When asked what you plan to haul you say 10k will cover it. You insist even if the sales person says that the 10k axle setup includes the weight of the of the trailer above the axles so total capacity is closer to 7.5-8k.
@@coypatton3160 sometimes. Sometimes though,salesman fail to really specifically ask what the equipment will be used for or will not take into account the requirements. For example, a customer specified he needed a tractor for bagging and unloading baggs. That doesn't require a lot of horsepower but unloading will strain open center hydraulics that are common to utlity tractors. After repeatedly burning up hydraulic pumps, He did trade for a tractor with more horsepower than he needed but would satisfy his hydraulic needs.
@andrew @Coy. No, I don’t think the salesperson is to be blamed at all in this case. Now, if I had asked for the “smallest tractor which can operate a TS10”, and the salesman recommended the LX, that would be different. This is not the case.
Neil is knowledgeable, honest, and helpful. He would not misdirect in that situation.
I published this video for information purposes. The LX3310 is too small for this mower. Simple as that. No big deal. If you want to run a flex wing, get a bigger tractor. …or a 2038r Deere.
Hi Tim! I guess this topic was a touchy one for people. I chose a Kioti for specific reasons. When I first started looking, your channel was one of the channels I used for some of my research. You did a really nice review of the Kioti ck3510se hst. I'm not going to say why I chose this tractor over the others, but for what I need and use the tractor for, it is perfect. Tim, what I really like about your channel is some of the things you show and get into. This was another of those "things" that I personally wouldn't have looked into, but really interested me. Now, for me in construction, I don't use the 3pt all that often, and to use a backhoe, it's less expensive to rent a tracked machine than spend $9k on a backhoe. Long story short, whether its a Kubota, Deere, Kioti, or any other tractor, this episode showed not necessarily a deficiency but showed your caution and why. Anyway, you do a great job, I really enjoy your channel, I always look forward to everything you put out. Best wishes and God bless Tim!
Thanks for the kind words, Troy! I like the CK SE series, especially the cab versions.
Unfortunately, Kioti has this same drawbar deficiency. Likely due to following Kubota religiously. Even tractors as large as the DK series still have the drawbar too close vertically to the PTO.
@@TractorTimewithTim thank you for the reply! I typically use loader only, with occasional 3pt use for box blade and land plane. That’s probably why the mechanical episodes are so intriguing to me. 😊. Btw, some of my favorites are when you’re with your family in IL. Just a sense of enjoyment I get watching them. 😊
Me personally I took this a project just to see if it worked......I didn't take it as a this is going to work and is a great idea..........seems like you put ALOT of time and thought into it. One thing that I didn't see brought up is leverage........yes a 1000lbs but add the length of the draw bar.......it's considerably more. Do love your videos on what you can actually accomplish with these tiny tractors
That is exactly how we intended it, Mike. Since we had made all of this effort, it seemed to make sense to explain what we had learned.
Most of the time we end up with a workable solution with caveats. This time, we didn’t.
Yes, the leverage issue wasn’t explicitly called out, but it was implied. I was willing to stretch the drawbar to 14”, but not to 19”…due to the additional leverage.
They make drop, draw bars.
IE: L shaped draw bars that will lower the hitch from 2-8 inches.
You can also make your own if your good at metal fabrication.
Take a fresh peace of steal twice as long as your draw bar, add in a bend to lower it and another at 4 inches.
This will give you a drop of 4 inches. together with the 3 inches above will give you 7 inches clearance.
You can also lower your three point and attach a draw bar on it. Of course that is ONLY if it will go low enough under the pto to not cause issues.
I do not know if the Kubota dose or not but on John Deere's you can pull out the PTO on the tractor and reverse it.
I’d extend it out the 19” and anchor the draw bar to either the frame or hitch with chain and turnbuckles. Kind of like how people do with hitch extension on pickups with the big cab over campers.
Don’t give up lol!
Good info there, Tim. More stuff than most people would probably research first. Makes me want to look at my little Massey and pay more attention to what I am hooking up to it.
Yes, that is the point. Most of the time, we don’t look that closely.
I believe that was a good choice to abandon to project before breaking something.
When implements have HP requirements, it also is implying a classification of tractor. This is a Cat 2 size of tractor implement. The low rating is in there for old tractors. There are many tractors of low HP that are the mass of a larger tractor. My 3720 isn't far off power wise from my TT60A but the TT60A is a full Cat 2 tractor in size. Where a 3720 is just a Cat 1. Yea, its got the HP to run stuff but it is under weight and size for things that the TT60A carry and run with no problems. Glad you didn't keep going just to make this work.
Hit the nail on the head here
That is true, especially when you think something like a Farmall H (modified for hydraulics) would be large enough to handle the mower but does not have the hp.
Though another more modern example would be that Kubota, among others, have multiple sizes the tractors with the same 25 hp. Kubota has the BX, B, LX, and L series all with 25hp engines, so this mower clearly won't work with LX and smaller, it might be compatible with the L2501.
2501 won’t have enough PTO Hp, but L3301 might. I do not know if their drawbar and PTO measurements are suitable.
Exactly what I was thinking.
I’d love to hear whether there was specific intention behind these relative measurements, or if there was lack of forethought. As in, if Kubota were intentionally keeping people from trying to attach larger implements? I really appreciate the video!
If you put big tool on a small tractor the tool will control the tractor a accident in the making
I haven't spent any time with a LX (formerly known as a "Big B", as opposed to a "Small B") so I looked it up. Kubota claims it's a Category I hitch, but it definitely isn't. For what it's worth, I have the opposite a problem - an MX has a Category II, but implements seem to fall into Category I or Category III. Go figure. So I end up using a whole box of reducing sleeves.
For what it's worth, the LX or the old Big B is really sold as a large homeowner machine. It's not a modern Agricultural machine by any stretch of the imagination. It's closer to a Farmall. And yes, a Farmall was considered an Ag machine for many, many decades, but not anymore.
Anyway, 1000 lbs of tongue weight on a 2500 pound machine sounds like a bad idea, and 24 PTO horsepower sounds way too small for a 10 foot batwing. I have 42 PTO HP and a 6 foot brush cutter. 4 MPH is about all it will do in 3-4 foot grass. Any taller and the governor can't keep it at PTO speed (2350 RPM on mine) regardless of ground speed. I have to watch the temperature gauge as it is in the summer.
Batwings use power more efficiently - the power required increases roughly as blade diameter squared - but 2 X (5*5) is more than 6*6, so I'm wondering how that 2038 is going to stand up to that mower long term. You must be running right at absolute upper limits much of the time, Tim.
Best regards, and stay safe.
Although the LX3310 had a complete PTO geometry fail with respect to the TS10, I was curious about the weight of the LS10. I checked Rhino's TS10 online specs. Yes, the PTO HP requirement is listed at 25-60. There was no recommended minimum tractor weight, but the weight of the TS10 is listed as 2,190 lbs. Although you've successfully pulled the TS10 with the JD 2038R on what appeared to be mostly flat ground, that 2,190 lbs of the TS10 would sure push around a small, and probably even mid frame CUT on hills.
I like the pto link for the fact. The quick hitch adds length and it saved me from buying a shaft for one implement.. because said shaft was cut short to fit the length before the added length of the quick hitch and it didn't have a lot of extra wiggle room.
Yeah, the rear end of a Kubota is different than a lot of other tractors, I found that out on my BX. Most annoying thing was how short the lower end arms were. I had to saw off quite a bit of a PTO shaft to make anything fit and then you ran into the problem of pinching off implements and bending the PTO.
if you run a quick hitch, or pat's quick coupler, it pretty much eliminates that issue. You do loose some capacity though.
Use a draw bar on the three point lower arms it will keep you far enough away from the PTO and low enough from draw bar we had to do on our old 3010 johndeere with a old bushhog on my grandfather's farm
See pinned comment.
Tim great video. None of us would have known this if you hadn't purchased this tractor. This continues to prove why your decision to purchase this tractor with your own hard earned money has set you apart from everyone else.
Thanks for the kind words.
I really don’t understand why the Kubota focused channels don’t see or understand issues like this. Fanboys just telling us how great everything is doesn’t really help us learn. We need more critical thinking .
@@TractorTimewithTim I completely agree.
Tim, why not use a draw bar in the 3pt? That would get your distance easily and allow you to drop to the desired drawbar to pto centerline; looked like there was plenty of room around the 3pt once you added the extender things(been around tractors for 30 years and somehow never seen those, seem pretty dumb under normal situations.)
just checked kubotas spec on there site and this tractor is rated at 1676lbs on the 3pt so from my arm chair this solution seems completely plausible and requires no fabricobbling!
@UCLFndeI09kfxpjP9hdLkNrg you do realize that yt picks and chooses whose comments to put where? It's not like they are placed in chrono order anymore(thanks algorithms.) So yes I did peruse the comment to see if someone had mentioned it ... I also have a pretty hard time swallowing that the 3 pt has a significant risk of suddenly raising 1000lbs but either way your rice bowl...
I really like this video because of the comments/arguments. Well done Tim!
Looks like there is room under the tractor to put a square tube with flanges to bolt to the framing area that you can slide your drawbar in and out like a receiver on a pickup truck. Would be easy to build and use bolts and U-bolts to clamp it in place.
The Kubota dealers should have a PTO adapter as well, or a complete PTO Shaft to interchange them out.
And clamp to what? That is the issue.
@@TractorTimewithTim From what I can see from the video (not a lot) you can modify the unit to use holes already in the tractor and where there is a place two u-bolts as straps/hangers as well, I was looking and saw at least four mounting points that could be used... But that an 50 cents could buy coffee in a cheap dinner... If you can post some better pictures of the underside, I can draw them up for you.
Good luck from the cold of Alaska!
What is possible and what is prudent are two very different things. Running that mower on your JD is...possible. It's also possible to drive in a 16-penny nail with a tack hammer, but it isn't prudent. Guys have killed grizzly bears with a 22-caliber rifle, as well.
This entire video could be summed up in one sentence: Match your implement size to your tractor and don't ask a sub-compact tractor to do more than they are truly designed to do.
Get a 3 point hitch draw bar from tractor supply for like $30
Then replace the pto shaft on the mower with one less complicated. That should solve all the problems you have.
By the time you do that you have paid enough more to have just bought the Deere in the first place. Price advantage of the Kub is out the window.
@@stemac391 I can get all that stuff for under $200 usd right now from tsc
The shaft cannot be replaced. The cv is required to allow sufficient turning ability. ALL flex wing mowers have the large cv.
Hook the mower up to your 3 point arms with a drawbar between the arms.
Why did you not use a 3 point multi-hole style draw bar with a pto extension, both available from TSC?
Risk of floating 3 point coming up on its own. This would destroy the $1000 PTO shaft.
Regarding the fancy PTO link: I'm developing arthritis in my thumbs and and concerned there may come a time when I cannot pull back the connector on the implement shaft. When that happens, I'm sure I'll be looking for something that does not required as much force from my thumbs.
Having been around Kubota compacts my whole life and recently purchasing Deere, I believe Deere's experience with larger tractors has spilled over into their compact tractor design to make things like this possible.
I have the same feeling. Deere is more sensitive to the larger Ag issues…including ASABE standards, etc.
As a Kubota owner I agree. I have never seen a kubota in a feild in mid Michigan. At least in my area they are not popular farm tractors. Green, red and blue.
Messicks compared John Deere and Kubota compacts. John Deere is woefully under designed compared to Kubota. Oh, and that plastic hood. 🤣
@@nervousordo underdesigned? Connect a JD auto connect mower deck then try the POS Kubota attempt at it and get back to me on who is under designing their products. I can give example after example of poor Kubota designs.
@@nervousordo kubota fan boys love to talk about their metal hood, but don't tell you the other body panels are absolute garbagr plastic. Much weaker than the JD glass filled polymer. Not to mention the bx hydrostat cooling fan.
I appreciate showing all the info. However, practically speaking, if I had another tractor available that would handle the mower, the first problem would have ended my efforts. I am glad once again I went with green when I bought a tractor.
Yep. This exercise is trying to prove the smallest machine(s) that I can use with this mower. This one proved too small. That is really the point here.
That is why one of the factory options for the lx series tractors is a drop drawbar.
I did not find such an option. Please send link.
@@TractorTimewithTim When I ordered my lx tractor three months ago, I was asked by my dealer if I wanted the standard drawbar or the drop drawbar… I believe you will find it if you go through the build my kubota portion of their site, but I will see if I can find a part number for you in my parts or service manuals
BL 6820. Is the part # shows it is $80.00 This part is under the dealer installed options when ordering a Lx series tractor
Whoa! That looks like what I need!
Still have the PTO issues. Maybe this drop down drawbar would stick out far enough for an adapter on the PTO…
Unfortunately, looks like 2 months to get one. Not sure it is worth the effort!
Welcome to the world of mechanical engineering. Imagine trying to explain what you experienced here to a, non-mechanically inclined, marketing manager who imagines his/her career ladder being dependent upon you making this project viable! Been there ...
I was shocked to learn this giant mower is rated for 25HP tractors!! talk about engineering and marketing
Works great on the Deere 2038r.
It gets better. At the companies I work for they sell that design (we make custom engineered products), and then talk to engineering about how to actually build it. That doesn't always go so well. Some times even having to back track with the customer because it just isn't possible.
What about a 3 point hitch drawbar. It would handle the weight, move the hitch point out and when you lowered it it would move the sway braces out of the way.
Thank Tim, for comparing the two. I look forward to your comparing the two rear end (sure seem they are not built the same). You also mentions in a previous vid that one road travels a lot slower than the other, it would be nice to see if there is a low end difference as well (is one lower geared than the other, given the 3 ranger versus 2).
comparisons
Just food for thought. If you put a drawbar on the 3 point hitch would that get low enough plus back enough to work? I use a hitch on my 3 point all the time to move trailers around. Just back up, lift and move. No messing with the jack (did I mention I'm lazy?)
Definitely something I have learned so far with tractors, both through watching Tim before I even had a tractor, and now having watched a great deal of his and other videos (as well as bought a 2038r) it is very hard to gauge what will work and what won't on new small tractors. Especially for beginners (like me). Horsepower means almost nothing if used in a broad sense, I.E. I tried to figure out if I could fit the woods BH85 backhoe, it wanted 30-100 HP but listed very little else for requirements. Yeah I can't, talked to the company and they said the smallest they have might challenge my tractor.
Still after getting to know my machine a little better I am even more sure that I made the right choice. Many of the jobs I do require squeezing as much tractor into as small of a forest path as possible, with my 2038 I can do it!
I currently own a LX2610 but I have owned Deeres previously. Kubota's are significantly lighter than Deeres for a given size. This works out well for me when mowing with a mid mount mower and not leaving ruts in the yard but it would be a significant disadvantage when trying to use a large rear implement. I am by no means a fan boy and my Kubota does what I need but I believe Tim was tying to show that the Deere 2038R could handle this mower and the Kubota LX3310 could not. Nothing more and nothing less.
I found the opposite to be true. I was shopping a 3025e and ended up getting a l2501. The kubota is significantly bigger/heavier machine.
@@DFWrancherthat is valid for the E models but the R models typically have a weight advantage compared to similarly sized Kubota's.
Yes, 3025e would not win that battle IMO.
@ Tractor Time with Tim Drawbar would work on L2501 so I'm assuming would work on L3301, and L3901 (same frame) but probably is still too close 6"from top of drawbar to center of shaft.
Maybe the ‘drop down’ drawbar would fit…another commenter mentioned it.
I'd imagine it might. I have no need at this point for such a large mower, and my 2501 would be short on pto hp anyway. Thanks for the video though, always good to learn what to look for when buying!
You could add an overrunning clutch to it. this would get cutter shaft so shield would work. You have to shorten the cutter pto shafts! We use one on our tractors with cutters!
How about a draw bar between the 3 point hitch arms and the PTO extension
You did good explaining everything awesome job my friend!!!
Match the tractor to the implements or the Implements with the tractor A decision you'll have to make when making an expensive purchases have a day love from TEXAS
Tim, I was one that asked about this set-up. Thank you very much for this video. I was hoping this would work as I like the Cab set on the Kubota better then the open 2038r. However this option for a mower was high on my list. Again thank you!
I think you’ll need to go at least to the L4060 for this mower on the Kubota side.
Deere 3039r is a great fit, and 2038r gets it done.
Its interesting how different brands focus on different specs of certain applications. This was an attention getter. When i bought my 3E a few yrs back, even with all the research i did i still miss a couple of things. Biggest one was the 2 row sweet corn planter runs 38" rows (since 195?) and wiith the old Ford it tucks the rows comfortably between the tire tracks. With the 3E and R4 tires, theres about an inch to 1.5 inch overlap and it doesnt seat the seat correctly or cover it. Another lesson learned..........
I understand and argree with your 4 points. Obviously the mower isn't designed for a compact tractor. Could the cv joint be replaced with a different style (smaller) and the pto coupler also changed? That would involve repacing one half of the universal joint. Maybe hard but not impossible.
I think you are looking at this backwards. The mower is designed to a/the ASABE standard. The TRACTOR is not. The mower does not need to change, as it’s successful connectivity to the 2038r proves.
Thank Tim, I think you saved us a lot of time and money
Thank You for this video I am looking at a TS 12 and am going out to take the measurements.
Pretty late jumping into this, but has anybody looked at the rated drawbar and rear axle capaciites of the 2038R? I think the drawbar weight limit is something like 550 lbs. - only half of what that mower will be putting on that long drawbar. The rear axle is rated for 2,400 lbs. Don't know the front/rear weight distribution of this tractor, but if it's something like 55/45, the bare tractor plus that mower will be around 2,100-2,200 lbs (not counting the operator of course!). Real world... it'll be right at the limit.
Suggests to me that just because the the tractor and mower CAN fit together and operate, doesn't mean it's a great idea. Running a 2,000 lb mower behind a 2,400 lb tractor, particularly with half the weight hanging off the drawbar is not an optimal setup.
Good question on the drawbar capacity. Do you have a link?
Another great video Tim. Even more things to think about when looking for a tractor and implements. Will be watching for further episodes on ptos.
what about instead of hooking mower to draw bar you hook it to a tow bar attatched to the 3 point hitch. I believe that would give you the distance and a stronger point that would hold the 1000 lbs.
That design may be a feature, rather than a fault. Could be a bit of protection to keep the small tractor from being hooked up to equipment it wasn't intended to run, and thus less warranty claims for burned up PTO clutches or broken rear frames. I wonder if there is a larger tractor in Kubota's line up that has the same engine and fits the mower better that could be used for testing?
Bingo
I wouldn’t do it just because that mower weighs almost equal to the tractor.
Agreed.
Tim, this is the type of content that generates views & participation. Do this w/ every video & you will profit handsomely.
I dunno. Seems we made a lot of folks mad.
@@TractorTimewithTim Tim, mad is the wrong interpretation. You forced folks to think, & some to expose the fallacy of their kubota overprotective posture. Proper implement sizing will always be an issue, staging a discussion on the topic might save a life, or @ least a limb or two.
Probably right.
Drawbar in your 3 point for connecting the mower.
I may be crazy, but it seems like an alternative pto shaft between the tractor and mower would solve half your issues (smaller safety cone & fits kubota pto), and a lower, longer drawbar would solve the other half. I realize you're likley trying to point out the green is better than orange in this scenario; however there seems to be some simple work arounds that weren't brought up.
I have a query out to Rhino about the large CV. I’ll let everyone know what they say.
I know that most flex wings have the large CV…
May be a dumb question, but can you not use a 3 point hitch drawbar? The 3 point should easily handle the weight. Or is the 3 point is not far enough out with the PTO connector?
What about a drop hitch configuration extending out? Instead of welding another mount to the underside.
I am like you Tim I don,t know why you would need a quick PTO shaft my stuff hooks right up no problem.
maybe not the usual Command and Concur style TTwT but it was a great video. Very interesting. The tongue weight segment had me lol
could you have used an extended and offset draw bar with a cross drawbar support (both can be found at TSC) mounted in the drag arms along with the PTO link/connect adapters
I am loving these comments. I like deere and kubota.... little more on the deere side but I still like kubota. Everyone saying the kubota isn't sized for the machine so it isn't fair, and that if you need the big brush mower get a bigger tractor.... well I can tell you that not everyone can afford 3 tractors so people want a Swiss army knife, not a one trick pony. Kubota should have followed the standard so it would be compatible with industry standard. You have to understand that people might only need to use this mower 2 times a year so a smaller tractor that can mow the lawn, till the garden, get firewood, clean up a horse barn, carry small round bales, and still mow with a batwing then you have the perfect tractor. If you have a hobby farm and you need to mow a little bit... guys around here will buy this mower with only 1 wing instead of 2, its cheaper, smaller, less hp required, can mow under trees with one wing, and the wing is nice to get further into ditches without putting the tractor on such a lean. The municipality around here use to always run 1 winged mowers because the tractor would be on the edge of the ditch and the one wing would go further down the ditch, and not having the other wing ride on the road kicking up dust and being in traffics way was also a bonus... so people got to remember this bat wing may be on the bigger side... but if you take one wing of it would be perfect for mowing grass ditches so it's not irrelevant, this tractor should meet that standard, because this may be the biggest tractor someone needs and their is no reason you need to upsize your tractor for one implement when the other 5 jobs it does it is the perfect size for.
Would a 2 point hitch drawbar not work and add the pto link?
I wonder if you could use a different drive shaft all together?
Seems to me the main fitment issues are the pto shaft design. Swap to one without that giant thing on the end and it would fit. Lowering the draw bar won't change the moment arm much so shouldn't be a big issue. Particularly if you move it forward slightly when you do it.
The tongue weight and HP would be the limiting things IMO. I run a 6ft drum mower with 43HP and still have to slow down in heavy grass. This actually chews the grass up which is even harder.
It the HP is there, a dolly could be put on the tongue to reduce vertical loading on the tractor.
Really it is too large, but it could be made to work.
Another thing I don’t like about the Kabota is the skimpy axle shafts. The Deere axle shafts are much beefier.
The size (diameter) of the axle shaft does not always indicate strength. The metallurgy has a far greater impact on strength than diameter. Check out Good Works Tractor video of 3-point lift comparison between Deere and Kubota.
(also note the mower deck on the Kubota was being lifted too because it was not pinned up. 60” deck adds another 375 lbs!)
If the Kubota axles were weak, it most certainly would have bent them with the incredible amount of weight. Behind the axle to boot.) ruclips.net/video/wk1kexRm7bY/видео.html
I have only seen one kubota with a bent axle in 2 years as a kubota dealer tech and that was on a bx that was dropped off a trailer going down the highway. The loader was tweaked so bad you couldn't take it off without a large hammer.
Keep up the good work Tim. Too much hate in the comments.
Very well done video Tim. I also don't understand the need for a different type of PTO connection. Keep up the good work on the videos.
I think all these comments are great no matter what brand you like. People on here are commenting maybe even arguing. It shows us that Deere and Kubota are both great tractors. At the end of the day we all win when manufacturers compete to be the best. We the consumer get better products.
@Mike Berry I agree. We as consumers should LOVE the competition. Find something we like better about the completion, and push our favorite vendor to add it.
@@TractorTimewithTim Absolutely.
Great information as always Tim.
I do like the sliding lower links on the Kubota, but the stubby PTO shaft and non standard spacing more than eradicate any 3 pt advantage over the Deere.
The telescoping lower links are one thing I would like to see on the small JDs, even as an option. Perhaps there are after market items available?
I get the call to hook and unhook the brush hog on my neighbour's 1025r. The mower can be pried about to get the line up, but it's fiddly and a bit physically taxing for this old guy. I find it a lot easier to hook up larger stuff on the JD ag tractors at home. Those tractors have telescoping lower links and I use them every time.
I guess a quick hitch would imrove the 1025r hook ups, although I've read that those don't fit with all implements.
Back to the Kubota, I find it strange that Kubota would ignore the standard. They do build lots of small to medium sized ag tractors as well and must be aware of the standard.
I appreciate you doing all that work and thought to try that mower. I agree that after reason 3, I thought you should stop.