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@@RNCHFND honestly, imo the only issue with Pangina’s elimination was that it left no front runners. While the fandom was stupid and toxic over Manila’s elimination, it was a great move for the season and basically MADE AS4, but in UKvsTW, losing Jimbo AND Pangina back to back was awful bc that was both the front runners. It happened on too short of a season for anyone else to get a truly satisfying conclusion and we needed a frontrunner to carry on the rest of the season.
Which people had already seen coming. But with Naomi, nobody ever did. She even voiced out her admiration for Manila which seemed so genuine at the time. Then this explosive revelation. Like gurrrrl.
I think that's what makes her choice more shocking, Naomi literally had no reason to send Manila Home. Yes she said in the next episode that she was getting even with Latrice but I don't really believe that, It was clear to everyone that after Latrice came back, Valentina was gonna be the next to go. Plus when Naomi, Trinity, Monique, and Valentina were all in the bottom Manila chose Valentina's lipstick despite her having at least one win unlike Naomi. And Monét actually had a good reason, Manila tried to send her home to save Latrice and didn't apologize for it when she landed in the bottom. And lastly we saw how quick Latrice and Naomi turned on each other in the Sex and The Kitty Girl challenge, Naomi's choice will go down as the smartest in AS Herstory, had she not made that choice she'd 100% be the next to go home considering just how surprisingly great Monét, Trinity, Manila, and especially Monique did.
the fact that Naomi literally told Latrice right before the lip sync with her deep monotone chill voice not to worry just cracks me up how can someone be this iconic
@@DJSurrender2TheMusic literally I was personally offended when she sent pangina home and I loved her, but I was even more mad when she won bc she fucked her over SO hard! I’m all for eliminating the front runner but the way she straight up lied to her for no reason was wild lol
@@gaysanatomy9466 yeah it’s crazy that in both cases they say how much they admire them and then go and do that. But tbh as much as I was a Pangina stan, Blu winning didn’t feel as bad because at least Pangina got eliminated by the overall winner. Meanwhile Manila got eliminated by someone who never even made the final top 2, making it feel like it was all for nothing
It's crazy how far Drag Race has evolved because Naomi's makeover won her the challenge this episode while Ongina in Season 1 had a similar concept with a pretty good execution but was put in the bottom and ultimately eliminated, with the justification for her bottom placement being that they didn't like the masculine/feminine concept
My theory is the judges’ overall opinion of “boy drag” really started to change around s7 when Kennedy did Little Richard on snatch game. I can’t remember them liking a lot of masculine/feminine drag before that
It sucks that the toxic side of the fandom has made the queens themselves nervous to play the game how they want! It’s a competition of course queens are going to do whatever it takes to win that check and that crown
its interesting to think about how Pangina basically tried to do the same thing in UKVW by eliminating the front runner in Jimbo. But that just blew up in her face instantly being eliminated next week. It's interesting to see how both the "eliminating the frontrunner" strategy can both work and go completely wrong.
I think the whole context around the choice for Naomi was a bit more in her favour, where as Pangina wouldn't really want either to go home. For Naomi, eliminating Manila does so many things for her: A) It gets rid of the biggest threat. B) It keeps Latrice, her own ally (We know they had an alliance that wasn't shown) in the game. C) With how the other players are playing, especially Trinity, they're unlikely to try to flip their strategy in the last round of eliminating the worst competitior, and if Latrice isn't there, she has a less impressive track record to them than Monet (More bottoms and less tops), so she would be axed, where as with Latrice there, they'll go for Latrice if they're eliminating that way over Naomi, because Latrice has literally been eliminated already and also has another bottom placement on top of that. For Pangina, both Juju or Jimbo going were bad for different reasons: If she eliminates Jimbo, as we saw, it just makes her by far the biggest threat and someone who isn't even useful to have as an ally anymore, due to their massive threat level. If she eliminates Juju, she's directly taking out one of her own allies for no benefit to herself and is still a threat anyways.
@@airtempest8945 the biggest thing for Naomi was the fact this was at top6. At top5 the 'safest' option was to eliminate Latrice and look at that Naomi is in the finale
This makes me think about All Stars 2 quite a bit. In the episode prior to the finale, imagine Detox standing in front of the lipstick case, thinking to herself “I can win against Roxxy and Alyssa, but I can’t beat Alaska or Katya.” So if she truly wanted to win that crown, she would’ve sent Alaska home instead of Alyssa. I always wonder what would’ve happened in that scenario.
@bo The whole obsession with Track Record actually gets on my nerves. Like sure go ahead and count the wins but some wins are clearly with more than others. If you win early in the season you are beating out a much larger number of competitors, an episode 1 win especially carries a lot of weight. Then there's the challenges which are considered bigger and more important to win; like snatch game, the roast, and the ball. Plus certain mini challenges that carry the weight of a full win like the reading challenge and puppets.
@@LmaoMoni It really is! People absolutely pay attention to you and say you’re “robbed” etc, (I literally have no opinion on this btw I simply do not care that much), and plus it makes fans more loyal because then you’ve been “robbed”
This is what happens when you force social-based eliminations into a merit-based show. It's like trying to put a square peg into circular hole. Drag Race saw that people liked Survivor's social-based tribal counsels, but didn't think about how in a show where the best person is supposed to win, why would you ever want someone to eliminate anyone but the worst person?
Also Alaska always eliminates the queen with the better track record any chance she gets. Tatianna over Detox, Alyssa over Roxxxy and Katya, Tatianna over Roxxxy.
I think Alaska really thought no one would remember Tati lol so she send home someone she thought the public wouldn't care, when it was the opposite lmao She said that in the reunion and I really think that's why she sent her home the second time
To be fair, track record means shit in week 2 anyway. Being in the top week 1 and the bottom week 2 doesn’t say much for their skills when you know what the queen next to them has to offer. I actually think it was still very justified to save Detox over Tatianna, bc friendships aside, I think Alaska was also aware that Detox could bring some great showings, whereas Tatianna went from top to bottom both times she competed. Saving Roxxxy was just the strategic merge of “I’ll keep my friend” and “lol she can’t win so I’m keeping her here”.
so many people hate this episode and it’s actually one of the lowest rated drag race episodes on imdb, but i honestly think its one of the best all stars episodes. it has everything you want, a good challenge, an amazing lipsync and drama. people only dont like it cause manila was eliminated but that was one of the best moments. manila wasnt robbed cause naomi used the format.
I thought this was a great episode. It hurt because I love Manila and wanted her to win BUT Naomi made the obvious choice if she wanted to increase her own chances of winning so I can't even be mad at her.
Fans only wanted queens to use the format to eliminate a front runner if they agreed with it. For example, people wanting Detox to pick Alaska because she was getting hate for outperforming a fan favourite, Katya. Because Manila was deemed "likable", it's not okay.
It’s also such an iconic moment because Naomi mentioned throughout the season that she’s been a huge fan of Manila ever since she was young so that set up the fan storyline where Naomi would be below Manila , kinda like Joslyn fox and Courtney act. So for Naomi to send her inspiration HOMEEEEE is so iconic and shows she is as much of an icon as Manilla is
When you realise the fan base only hate this episode and Naomi because of Manila being sent home, yet every season we always see ‘this is too boring! There’s no drama.’ Drag race is a double edged sword that most people aren’t ready to accept yet. Naomi Smalls eliminating front runners is a POWER MOVE, but she even had valid reasons to give Latrice (you kept me, I’m keeping you) just a shame she had to experience such hate after it.
Isn't it normal that not all fans think the same? I for once hate drama, I prefer rupaul's best friend race. That's why AS7 is for me the ultimate drag show. I get to see the queens have fun, stay for the entire competition so we get to enjoy them all for the entire time. Then there are people who don't like the format and DO want the drama. In a sea full of fans you are bound to find different opinions and preferences.
@@lacedupangel i personally see it more as there being a side of the fandom that likes this type of stuff and a side that doesn't rather than it being the same people changing their minds, i mean it's not like we're all just one entity
@@sahwangshi I feel the same way about that argument too. Just because the average opinion changed to A, doesn’t mean each individual’s opinion did too. Could be new fans coming into the block with a different mindset, changing the average. Or in the other hand people are actually humans and change their mind all the time.
I hate the fan base like that. I remember the amount of hate Kandy got in her fight in untucked (which was really good TV for us) and then after that there was little drama or conflict on the season AND PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT HOW BORING IT WAS. If you want drama, don’t hate on people who are going to give you it
She also didn't have a good social game outside of the show. Her bitter tweets basically giving her fans the opportunity to harass Naomi was terrible and that's why Naomi blocked her. Jimbo did the same thing with Pangina. Horrible behavior.
I mean manila investing a lot for this opportunity after losing her first season despite doing good and now even better, with her first time being in the bottom and working her ass off to win challenges and her commitment to the show, clearly making her the front runner but then one fallback and it's all gone for her. She's also a human and has feelings too, she is free to express sadness and bitterness because her being gone was unjustified compared to how she performed. Sadly it's just how the game works and she has to accept it and so do the fans. Also, Naomi does not deserve to get hate just for playing the game because either way, monet also had manila's lipstick. It's just sad seeing a front runner being taken away the chance of winning after all her hard work. it just blew out of proportions because some fans are overly sensitive and toxic who are only one-sided and does not even dare to see the other point of view.
@@aristotlecruz2021 nah, your not going to make her a victim for being complicit to the hate naomi received. P.o.c more specifically black queens of color already get the most hate by the fandom Factually speaking. She was willing to send monet home over latrice. She died on the sword she played by. How does she get to be bitter? Yes she's human but shes an social media influencer. Keyword influence
@@icannot1104 she's allowed to be bitter because she lost and was sent home despite doing the best job out of all of them and was cut off having a chance of winning and getting that cash prize? Manila is also a person of color, her name is literally the landmarks of her country and the asian-hate also exist. I can easily flip that last sentence, she is an influencer but she is also human.
@@aristotlecruz2021 the fact you pick and choose on what to and to not respond to is camp. That's not a conversation. Any points you can't refute you don't address. That's elementary. Point is Manila was willing to send monet home over latrice. ( Same as pangina and jimbo) but she lost the lipsync. She fell on the same sword she lived by . And please tell me how Manila being p.o.c correlates to her being complicit to hate and racism solely based on Manila's elimination. Then to add fuel to the fire! How is that defendable. Its wrong. Period. Admit that . Than we can have a conversation about whatever you wanna twist out of context.
Maybe a Game Changers about Valentina's controversial Congeniality win changing it from a fan vote to voted on by the queens? Which is how the Miss Congeniality pageant concept is supposed to work, to be fair. I never realized it wasn't voted on by the contestants until recently, I thought S9 "fan favorite" was an aberration, and it was lol just not how I thought.
I know this is was a reply from 7 months ago LOL, but I am actually pretty sure the voting for Miss Congeniality changed because season 10 voting was hacked by Bots. I'm pretty sure the Vixen had the most votes, like over a billion, and was followed by Dusty and Kalorie
The thing with this format is that, ultimately, the ones who end up losing are us. Never mind who deserves or doesn't deserve to win, having only the very best go all the way has always been satisfying in regular seasons because we got the opportunity to see the top shine and give us stellar performances. With this All Winners season, we are having the chance to enjoy a drama-free season that is focused entirely on the talents of each contestant, and what a joy it has been. Now, with the format where a queen gets eliminated because she is the best but didn't win the challenge that episode is just tiresome. We have had queens who won entire seasons with just 1 win on their belts, so seeing Manila not winning after collecting multiple wins and being the clear front runner feels disappointing. We wanted to see more of her, because she is entertaining and deserved the spotlight. Same goes with Bendela on All Stars 3. She eliminated herself, but she only did that because she didn't enjoy eliminating others. In my opinion, the only season where this format kind of worked was All Stars 2, but All Stars 2 was entirely packed with talent, unlike the other seasons.
I've been wishing for a while now that shows like this would adopt the no-elimination format and it blows my mind Drag Race was the one to try it, and damn it's worked well. But like the craft competitions like Bakeoff or the pottery/jewelry ones which start out with 12 contestants so the first episode has 12 really cool projects to see take shape, and then 11, then 10, each time you lose a bit of extra variation, you lose the risk-takers, you lose the weird passionate amateurs, until finally you have 3 people trying to fill out an hour. I'm not sure the "high stakes" and drama are a worthwhile tradeoff really, especially since more recent Drag Race seasons are filled with queens who are more aware than ever that the drama can ruin their reputation
People hate on AS4 for Naomi ✨ACTUALLY✨ playing the game. People say they want drama, shade, and twists until it impacts their fave. But then look at S13 and 14 and how annoyed everyone was at the lack of eliminations? Multiple queens have said that if you send the best home, you beat them and Naomi did that! It sucked to see Manila go home, but how interesting and shocking was it to see a contestant say "I'm going to send home the best" and then actually do it?? Naomi is up there with Ben De La for subverting expectations and giving us good TV.
People want drama, shade, and twists because of the entertainment they provide, but they don't want those things to get in the way of the best drag queen being crowned, because then that goes against the stated point of the show. It's why the result of AS3 was so disappointing - the twists and drama prevented the most talented queens from winning, which isn't what people want to see.
@@HeyLetsDoAThing You make some good points. I don't disagree with you but I do think that with a plot twist comes the potential for the consequences to negatively or positively impact the show. Deserving winners being eliminated is unfortunately a consequence of those twists in the competition being present. There are other things that the show could do that would prevent this though, like bringing back immunity or giving more people in the top who don't win an advantage that would help them in future challenges.
@@kellygreengables3936 The most deserving winners being eliminated is the problem with having those twists in the first place. Honestly, I think the biggest mistake the All Stars format ever made was taking eliminations out of the judges' hands and getting rid of the lipsync for your life. This isn't survivor. The competitors shouldn't be eliminating each other. We're here to see artists perform at their best and to see the best person crowned. I know the judges don't always make the best decisions either, but at least their job is to be judges. Now they just sit there, choose some tops and bottoms, and then get to sit back while the queens decide who goes home and then have to deal with any backlash from it, when they already get enough shit from this fanbase to begin with.
I mean, I’m surprised to hear that you don’t understand why queens might prefer to be less ruthless. They make their living off their fanbases, and those fanbases can turn highly toxic on a dime. Queens have suffered horrific harassment post-season due to mishaps from the show. The queens are also peers and sometimes friends in the same industry - winning a season at the cost of your reputation is risky, and might not be beneficial in the long term.
I wish that the show were more able to edit big game moments like Naomi eliminating Manila, Blu eliminating Pangina, Pangina eliminating Jimbo into bigger narratives. Like on Survivor, huge blind sides are part of the fun of watching, but then in All Stars, you just have to watch the rest of the show without one of the strongest queens in it to make it more entertaining. I don't know how Drag Race could try to incorporate that or mitigate the loss of strong players, but I'm interested to see them keep trying.
Imagine after every few episodes, the eliminated queens comeback and just give critiques on certain things. This way, more drama will be created, and it might create more alliances and such.
Honestly though, she had to choose between a strong competitor who she claimed to be a long time fan of and someone who she might have felt in debt to. Either person that she could have chose would have been considered “shady”
Feels like I talk about Roxxxy so much in this community, and I know that's probably not enough for a video, but we know she was a game changer in terms of lip syncs with her wig reveal
I’d also throw in how she got a redemption arc in all stars 2 and everyone loved her … and then she didn’t go home, and still didn’t go home, and still didn’t go home
Trixie KNEW that this would happen to Naomi. Before that Pit Stop episode she always advised that you are playing a game in and out of the show. The long game is winning more fans on the outside. Sometimes, the fans will react positively to a decision like Naomi's but I know a lot of people that did NOT take it well. (Granted, most of those people are Asian, like myself, and Manila's elimination meant that we were, yet again, not getting an Asian queen.)
@@icannot1104 but it was so forced and everybody KNEW that monet was only crowned so the fans would stop being clowns yes she did slay the finale but come on…
@@malak.2828 Yes she did slay the finale leave it at that😭 y'all keep trying to act like Monet won off of like Affirmative Action and not because she WON the final episode like Sasha won the final episode or Willow won the final episode or Yvie won the final episode and the show with a track record less than the people they beat😭 they were both crowned for different reasons but Monet made it to the finale and won the end
@@samuelsmalls6288 but like most if monet’s wins are very questionable in that season but yes i do after the finale is there for a reason and in a way if was like monet won the finale and trinity won track record wise so i guess it’s fair but like y’all monique was right there 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
Didn’t Naomi and Monet say that Naomi during the Imrpov challenge actually slayed Manilla but was heavally EDITED to make it seem that she didn’t do THAT well. It actually shows you that they again didn’t thought to her be that amazing.
Yeah Monet and Latrice both said Naomi devoured on both Jersey Justice and Snatch Game. It's such a shame that production wanted to push Manila when they honestly didn't even need to. Manila would've been top 4 or 5 without the assistance.
@@amcuevas omg imagine the fair TR of both Manila and Naomi Manila: Top2 SAFE HIGH HIGH WIN WIN ELM Naomi: HIGH HIGH WIN WIN BTM BTM WIN BTM Omg and think about it, in this case Manila would not for Latrice cause it wouldn’t be possible. Maybe a Naomi/Manila Alliance could have formed. This powerhouse alliance imagine. Naomi would be e serious contender, Manila would still slay but it would be fairer, TTT would have had one WIN less.
You really have the RPDR content we all need..seriously, Im so grateful to you for all your hard work and dedication, as I'm sure many others are as well! COME THUR Jack 🥰
I don’t know if the idea is still up in the air, but a while back in one of your polls you wanted to make a video on Liv Lux vs. Utica and how both paved their way trying to win Miss Congeniality. I’d love to see that video come to fruition.
Me to. Deja Skye was trying super hard for that Mrs congeniality this past season. LoL I don't blame her though. It's almost a garuntee to get on All-stars. Also just a whole video on Mrs congeniality and how it's changed.
Is it just me or did Nina Bonina seem like she was trying to get Ms Congeniality and favoured by fans but the editing of the show completely went against her and showed her as whiny and stuff? I’d LOVE a video on Ms Congeniality tho
@@chrisbuckley1785 Yes!! A video on ms congeniality would be so interesting, especially the changes throughout the seasons as the social game has changed as well
I really feel like the Top 2 All Stars format could have been so much more interesting if it never had the pretence of fairness. Queens can play strategically and it still ends up being fair most of the time because queens like Pangina and Alexis prove why gunning for front-runners can easily backfire, but it adds so much more suspense to know that if a queen is smart about it and wins at the right time she can flip the script.
I just don’t get why people sent her so much hate for this , it’s a competition . The whole “I wanna be at the top with the best” is something ridiculous the queens always say , if I was fighting to win , I’m removing the biggest obstacle (biggest competition)
I just wanna point out something very quickly. In the beginning of the season, I believe Naomi should’ve been top 2 in ep 2 alongside Monet, and she also should’ve had a top spot for the Jersey Justice ep. I think, just like Jack pointed out so clearly, they just wanted to give her a rudemption arc and that’s it. Clearly Valentina, Mo, Monet, Trin and Manila were the ones reeeeeaaaaally considered for the crown.
I think one problem I have with the “send the best home” is that if it’s a season like UKVSTW, when the top 2 queens get sent home back to back while filler queens are left the crowning doesn’t feel as justified. Dgmw I love blu and with that top 4 she was the right choice
THIS. I understand not wanting the game to be predictable. But I'll take a predictable season with the democratic vote over whatever the hell UKVTW was, any day.
She really was the only one who dared to do this, in fact I believe that it's a shame that Katya didn't try to pull Alaska's lipstick in the makeover, she messed up the most and was the frontrunner, giving you a justification and reason. Monet tried to hide behind not trusting her and her wanting to save Latrice. She was clearly just saving her skin. Naomi was honest and said it how it was. It was also incredibly smart, because it was in the late game, giving you few opportunities for backlash, a mistake Morgan and Pangina made. On top of a likely winner of the next challenge bragging about being fair, while you keep a weaker contestant in for her to eliminate. It was pure genious.
Honestly, as much as I love Manila and wanted her to win All Stars 4, Naomi did what she had to do and I've always respected her for that. And I agree with Heidi, that beating the best doesn't have to mean beating them at the end, cos if you send them home when you get the chance, you've beaten them! But I think production saw the chance to give Manila an Alaska moment (bottom in the makeover as their only weak moment of the season) and didn't think Naomi (or Monet) would take advantage of that situation since no one had before.
I agree with everything else, but what I think Heidi fails to understand witht he whole "beating the best thing" is that the queens who say that usually mean they want to beat the best by performing better; not by being strategic about their eliminations. In other words, they want to play a "fair" game and let the best queen win (hopefully, themselves). That being said, queens playing the game like Naomi is also just as valid. They're just two different aproaches.
Monet would have eliminated Manila as well so, as is the case with that season in general. Manila is really the iconic game-changer just for being such a threat that she guaranteed her own elimination.
I NEVER understand why queens come into allstars like "I'm a winner, the crown is mine" and then refuse to send home the competition? bitch if you're here to win, play the fucking game. sure it might leave us with lackluster performers, but if you wanna win, you'll do anything it takes.
I honestly don't mind queens playing the game like Naomi did. But some queens want to win by being the best performer; not by strategy and taking advantage of a front-runner having a weak week. And that's entirelly valdi too. For some queens the point isn't winning in and of itself, the point is to prove they're the best performer, and winning as a consequence to that.
I just wanted to say that I really think you make the best and most creative drag race content on RUclips. I really love this format and while many people talked about this iconic moment of the show you put a different perspective on it
This is such a cool concept! And anything with Naomi Smalls love is instantly top tier. Her lip sync skills and level of personal branding cannot be disputed!
The whole fairness angle that most of the "playing it safe" queens take isn't really about the competition or the money, it's about interpretation. "I want to beat the best" is "I want the fans to think I'm the best". Sure, you could compete for just the money but for artists and performers the real prize is getting a show were you are the protagonist and your victory is the show's good ending. That is worth more than the money, that is gigs and talk shows and trending and visibility. The real fear is... Well... Being a Trixie; winning but never truly standing out and (even if waaay beyond her hands and having no choice in the matter) getting handed the win instead of "earning" it in the eyes of the fans. I think Trixie's win is as valid as it could get and have never gave a fuck, but the lackluster reception of her crown makes it so that the fandom kinda... Doesn't really acknowledge that she won? Anyway, I'm rambling. Everyone is talking about Pangina and Jimbo as examples of the format, but no one is talking about Blu who actually won and deservedly so. Her eliminating Pangina wasn't as controversial because Pangina opened the door for it, so we all agree Blu was just playing the game, not starting it and so when she wins some fans kinda go "well, yeah, for lack of a better queen". It is kinda scary to win "by default" in the eyes of the fans, I think if Naomi had actually won after eliminating Manila, the fandom wouldn't have been as kind to her.
Firstly, brilliant concept for a series, it gives you such freedom and so many girls to talk about! Secondly, I'm so glad you're starting with Naomi. Even outside of the lipstick moment, she's such a powerhouse of a queen and I think a lot of people forget how strong she was in both seasons!
I always felt Naomi was overlooked and that she was much more a star and made more waves than people gave her credit for. I'm glad you're highliting her so much as she's one of my faves of faves too
Even though I would have really liked for Manila to win I think she f###ed up the social game. By waving the option of eliminating Valentina in the beginning she lost Trinity’s support and it went all downhill from there. I completely understand her loyalty towards Latrice, but telling everyone up front that she will chop them over her bestie just made it impossible not to eliminate her. Because everyone knew that if they were in the bottom with Latrice and Manila won, they are out.
100% agreed on all fronts. Naomi actually became a favourite of mine for daring to play the game as the producers had it. UK vs the World was messy and phenomenal for being that x10. So memorable.
This makes me think about a Drag Race All Stars: Gamechangers format, and who we'd cast on it. Obviously Naomi is a lock, but who else do we put in there? (No casting of winners please) From Season 1 I'd pick: - Ongina (OG fan fave) - Shannel (first ever lipsynch ruveal/scripted fake accident) - Akashia (OG lipsynch assassin) - Nina Flowers (first ever robbed queen/runner-up/Ms. Congeniality) - Porkchop (duh) - Tammie Brown (first ever kooky queen, and still one of the best)
disliking is one thing, but if you direct a queen any hate for their actions on the show you're a bad person. 75% of it is near-fiction and the other 25% is between the queens alone.
I love this series, i can't wait to see whos gonna come next! I'm guessing Dela, Sasha Velour, Roxxxy Andrews and maybe Pangina and/or Adore would be in this series
I think an interesting format would be to do the AS4 LaLaPaRuza on steroids. The maxi-challenge winner is immune from elimination, while the bottom queen can challenge any of the safe queens to a Lip Sync for Your Life. I know Ru doesn't like to eliminate All Stars herself, but it's an interesting thought experiment that introduces an element of calculated risk to the competition. Like, the bottom queen has to bet on who she can take in a lip sync, and if it's the frontrunner, she has to prove why the frontrunner should take her place in the bottom and go home. I think it would allow for more strategic choices and dramatic scenarios, while still playing to the idea that winner of the whole thing should be somebody who has outperformed the competition, either in the challenges or the lip syncs. I don't know. Just a fun idea...
I personally think all stars in general shouldn’t necessarily have “eliminations” I love the idea of being able to see all the queens in all the competition
honestly it always bothered me that people were so up in arms that naomi eliminated manila. like this is a competition for 100k, why would you not want to eliminate your strongest competition at that point. people always say “i want to beat the best” well if you won the challenge and the best is in the bottom… you already have, send them packing 🤷🏼♂️
I always think it is funny when people complain eliminating a big competition is "unfair" It is a competition, you need to get rid of the ones who pose a threat.
After watching the all winners season, I realize how apart from the shocking elimination and the odd winning, this was a forgettable semi negative season to me.
I dont find manilas elimination unfair. Its how the game works just like trinity said “thats how the cookie is going to crumble for a lot of this girls, and there could only be one”
Naomi did what you’re supposed to do in that format, it’s weird that the fans don’t understand that it’s a game, and it’s not just about presenting great drag, it’s also about playing the game smart
All Stars isn’t like regular Drag Race either. Everyone has had resources, more coin to spend and sometimes significant time to grow. Everyone is a threat, even those that skate by or aren’t doing well. Tables can turn quickly, Naomi simply seised the opportunity to get rid of a strong competitor for the crown while also keeping her promise to someone who actually saved her ass from going home. ‘Wanna compete with the best’ they already are when they are on All Stars. You want to win, you gotta send the people home that are threats. She had the guts to do it.
Mmm if anything it should of been Monique over Monet. The whole “double winner” was due to the backlash of All Stars winners being “blonde and white.” Which is true. You can tell this was an after thought because if this was genuine decision then they would’ve filmed Trinity and Monet being crowned at the same time. Not two different screen cuts of them getting crowned. Which is why Trinity looked terrified when she watched the finale live at a booking. BTW: they film all the finalist being crowned before the show airs. Due to Perez Hilton leaking Raja winning season three on the premier episode. So no one knows who wins until it airs
@@agurbenur3716 it should be based off the entire season not just an episode. Just to be fair it should of been only Trinity winning. Especially since Shea won the next season of AS5
the greatest rugirl of them all!! she gives you looks, she gives you unforgettable lipsyncs, she gives you DRAMA, yeah perhaps she ruined a season with a choice but what a moment that was
Random Naomi story: I was performing at Mickeys upstairs and was struggling to pin some hair in and Naomi (out of drag) showed up out of NOWHERE to help me pin in it. Later I was waiting for the elevator to take my bag downstairs and when it opened it was full of stuff - again, Naomi appeared out of NOWHERE and carried it downstairs for me while I was like "Omg please stop you don't have to" the whole time. Later that night I was performing at Mary's WeHo and I tripped on the carpet while trying to do a kick and look up, and Naomi is there with a dollar and a smile. I think Naomi might be an angel? Anyway
Anyone else here after she revealed more behind the scenes circumstances that added to her decision? So apparently production only allowed the queens to hang out in their respective teams while waiting for the judging for the challenge. Manila and Naomi became close and gassed each other up because they got to watch the other teams do their improv and they both agreed that they did the best and ate everyone else up. Manila gassed Naomi saying she did amazing. During the judging, the panel was saying that Manila overshadowed Naomi and immediately after, Manila's tone changed and started to echo the judges' comments saying 'yeah girl, I ate you up' backstage. That's where Naomi decided to never trust Manila (obviously added to the fact that Manila tried to play Monet).
Naomi Smalls was the first queen I ever saw walk into any Drag Race werkroom, ever! Season 8 was the first season I watched when I was thirteen- so, for me, Naomi has always kind of been THAT girl. - Her Season 8 entrance was a GAG (For me, at the time) - Her 'Farm runway' outfit was a GAG - Her Paper dress runway was a GAG - Her finale 'Legs' number was a GAG - Her Acid Betty slaying lipsync was a GAG - Her AS4 Promo/ promo look was a GAG She's had so many iconic moments, too many to think of off the bat! Naomi Smalls is for sure (for me) in the Top 10 most iconic RPDR Queens ever. Period.
In my top 10 I'd say: (No particular order) Naomi Smalls, Trixie Mattel, Bob The Drag Queen, Bimini (Formerly Bon Boulash), Silky Nutmeg Ganache, Bianca Del Rio, Shangela, Kennedy Davenport, Violet Chachki & Katya Zamolodchikova ... Just my op
I think the fact that strategic actions lead to worse TV suggests that the format is not correct for making better tv. It’s really not Naomi’s fault, but this episode ruined AS4 for me. I’m glad they changed the format.
As a viewer, it's kinda annoying that the top players get axed. That's why I don't like UKvsTW. The moment that pangina was eliminated I didn't care anymore about the show anymore, in fact, I didn't keep watching it because that. We want to see people work hard and get to the end in a "fair" way. I was in the competition, I'll axed the strongest the moment that I could cuz it the smartest choice. So, personally, I think the elimination system should be either revised or entirely dismissed. The big problem is that when you fail in the main series, they lypsinc but in AS, they depend of the opinions of others and the can't fight back. I think they should keep the score system of AS7, bring back bad critics and top 2 and bottom 2. The winner of the top 2 gets to choose either block or deduct a point from the bottom 2. No one goes home except from maybe the middle of season? Idk something like that
@@lemongan yeah, just for AS, main series have to keep eliminations. With the score system and some twists here and there, the show can be really exciting!
It’s so annoying to me when a large part of the fan base hates a queen for something they do (Naomi, Laganja, brita etc) on the show and then when it’s popular to like them again they switch up and act like they weren’t sending hate to and death threats to queens.
Naomi eliminating Manila was probably the best part of AS4 cause I barely remember that season. When they all play good judy it gets boring and predictable for me.
I was rooting for Manilla and Latrice but it's the game. She is right, life isn't fair and Manilla doesn't need to win a season, she already is a superstar. Manilla, Shangela, Jimbo, Pangina, TKB... the unfairly eliminated queens are more iconic because of that imo. On a side note, I absolutely love Naomi's run on AS4, I wish she'd come back again.
Your smile is a Game Changer. It could launch a thousand ships or bring about world peace. That being said, I hope you never scrutinize when you choose to share it because the answer is always yes.
I think it's good that the queens are scared (for a lack of better words) to do this more. I love Trixie's post-drag race career and she's definitely one of the most successful queens in the franchise, but not even having the two frontrunners of the season in the final lip-sync makes the ending unsatisfying. That's how I imagine every season would be if queens were always eliminating the more threatening queen. Although, it is fantastic TV when it's unexpected like Naomi
As a bit of a tangent, I think the old format could still work if the queens and not RuPaul decides the bottom 2. In the end, if you really want the queens to take the responsibility of eliminating, let them fully take it, allow the queens to decide on the bottom 2 and send someone home either collectively or as the winner of the episode. Not the random bottom 3 or if you're not in the top then you're in the bottom bullshit either. This way the lipsync for your life can also come back to All Stars, giving us more stakes and more exciting lipsyncs (don't get me wrong I actually really enjoy the lipsync assassin idea but I don't know that it's super necessary)
The way I feel about AS4 is the same way I feel about AS3, the clear front runner gets sent home (or quits) midway leaving the runner up (and/or 2nd runner up 💀) at best to win.
I think alot of people in the fandom forget the fact that it's a competition, every girl is competing against each other for the crown, and if you make a wrong move you're out. Naomi did what she had to do cause she wanted to win, much like every other girl. it makes the most sense to eliminate your biggest competition.
I understand the strategy around sending Manila home and that she had a high chance of getting sent home by someone else, but man did it still break my heart. She’s very successful even without a crown, but I was so excited to see her win. 🇵🇭
The Queens not playing the All Star seasons the way I thought it would have been - Survivor or Big Brother type show - alliances, ruthless elimination. Kudos to Naomi for shaking shit up.
i absolutely need naomi on an international season.. her lipsync are something so special and yes I’ll say it, just pure talent wise (no stunts included) NAOMI is the best lipsyncer out of everyone currently in the rupaul’s drag race franchise
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I need to know. Why you think you can charge so much when there are free apps out there like duolingo and we can just use tiktok or whatever to duo with native speakers? And there's no certification at the end??? Girl bye
I don’t mind either format but I hate the “if you’re not in the top, you’re in the bottom” twist, unless it’s the final competitive episode
This really ruins the seasons for me
This completely wrecks their track record and fucked up Alexis, TKB and Pangina
@@RNCHFND cant say i can agree with the pangina part. her and janey were objectively the 2 worst in snatch game
@@tavua yeah, I think Pangina would've go home either way. Blu was going to win that lipsynch
@@RNCHFND honestly, imo the only issue with Pangina’s elimination was that it left no front runners. While the fandom was stupid and toxic over Manila’s elimination, it was a great move for the season and basically MADE AS4, but in UKvsTW, losing Jimbo AND Pangina back to back was awful bc that was both the front runners. It happened on too short of a season for anyone else to get a truly satisfying conclusion and we needed a frontrunner to carry on the rest of the season.
The icing on the cake for that episode came at the start of the next one where Monét revealed she'd ALSO picked Manila lol
Right!!!!!
“I chose Manila’s ass too” *Monique Heart screaming*
I think if Monet had picked Latrice, production would probably find a way to edit the lipsync to make her win tbh
Which people had already seen coming. But with Naomi, nobody ever did. She even voiced out her admiration for Manila which seemed so genuine at the time. Then this explosive revelation. Like gurrrrl.
I think that's what makes her choice more shocking, Naomi literally had no reason to send Manila Home. Yes she said in the next episode that she was getting even with Latrice but I don't really believe that, It was clear to everyone that after Latrice came back, Valentina was gonna be the next to go. Plus when Naomi, Trinity, Monique, and Valentina were all in the bottom Manila chose Valentina's lipstick despite her having at least one win unlike Naomi. And Monét actually had a good reason, Manila tried to send her home to save Latrice and didn't apologize for it when she landed in the bottom. And lastly we saw how quick Latrice and Naomi turned on each other in the Sex and The Kitty Girl challenge, Naomi's choice will go down as the smartest in AS Herstory, had she not made that choice she'd 100% be the next to go home considering just how surprisingly great Monét, Trinity, Manila, and especially Monique did.
the fact that Naomi literally told Latrice right before the lip sync with her deep monotone chill voice not to worry just cracks me up
how can someone be this iconic
That with Blu’s reassurement before Pangina’s elimination, I don’t feel I’d ever feel safe as a bottom queen
@@DJSurrender2TheMusic literally I was personally offended when she sent pangina home and I loved her, but I was even more mad when she won bc she fucked her over SO hard! I’m all for eliminating the front runner but the way she straight up lied to her for no reason was wild lol
@@gaysanatomy9466 yeah it’s crazy that in both cases they say how much they admire them and then go and do that. But tbh as much as I was a Pangina stan, Blu winning didn’t feel as bad because at least Pangina got eliminated by the overall winner. Meanwhile Manila got eliminated by someone who never even made the final top 2, making it feel like it was all for nothing
@@DJSurrender2TheMusic Not 'all for nothing', all for the DRAMA!! It spiced things up
Mo Hart should have won.
Imagine if Detox had eliminated Alaska in AS2, that would have been a gag
maybe katya would’ve won😭
@@avastevens7761 no
@@moamoaoz she definitely could have
she most likely would’ve eliminated roxxxy over alaska.
@@bunnytailss totally, I think that Tatiana and Alyssa deserved to advance more in the competition 😭
It's crazy how far Drag Race has evolved because Naomi's makeover won her the challenge this episode while Ongina in Season 1 had a similar concept with a pretty good execution but was put in the bottom and ultimately eliminated, with the justification for her bottom placement being that they didn't like the masculine/feminine concept
My theory is the judges’ overall opinion of “boy drag” really started to change around s7 when Kennedy did Little Richard on snatch game. I can’t remember them liking a lot of masculine/feminine drag before that
@@rainbowupmynose also the dancing challenge the same season where they had to half and half
@@rainbowupmynose Yep, they even read Milk on Season 6 for dressing as out-of-drag Ru for the Rupaul runway
i think when milk got a lot of negative comments from the judges and fans did not agree, they decided to be more open to it going forward
To be fair they were two different ages almost. And the game was so far different. Then was the best “woman” wins, now it’s the best drag queen.
It sucks that the toxic side of the fandom has made the queens themselves nervous to play the game how they want! It’s a competition of course queens are going to do whatever it takes to win that check and that crown
Morgan want to do that on S3 Allstars and Bendela cut her 😂😂😂😂😂😂
but still she didn't win, wgich the fun part, and the double win of the season is even funnier so
@@mambels it doesn’t matter. She eliminated her cause she wants to win herself and that deserves respect.
Naomi smalls is so iconic she broke not only 2 seasons but a whole format
queen naomi changes the game and we love her for it
Honestly, she is disgusting.
Nao-meh changes the game and we meh her for it
@@TostVad aww and your sitting behind a laptop sad and bitter
@@angxlpeach just spilling the truth, don’t take it too personal, your goodness Nao-meh will never acknowledge your existence anyways :v
its interesting to think about how Pangina basically tried to do the same thing in UKVW by eliminating the front runner in Jimbo. But that just blew up in her face instantly being eliminated next week. It's interesting to see how both the "eliminating the frontrunner" strategy can both work and go completely wrong.
I think the whole context around the choice for Naomi was a bit more in her favour, where as Pangina wouldn't really want either to go home.
For Naomi, eliminating Manila does so many things for her:
A) It gets rid of the biggest threat.
B) It keeps Latrice, her own ally (We know they had an alliance that wasn't shown) in the game.
C) With how the other players are playing, especially Trinity, they're unlikely to try to flip their strategy in the last round of eliminating the worst competitior, and if Latrice isn't there, she has a less impressive track record to them than Monet (More bottoms and less tops), so she would be axed, where as with Latrice there, they'll go for Latrice if they're eliminating that way over Naomi, because Latrice has literally been eliminated already and also has another bottom placement on top of that.
For Pangina, both Juju or Jimbo going were bad for different reasons:
If she eliminates Jimbo, as we saw, it just makes her by far the biggest threat and someone who isn't even useful to have as an ally anymore, due to their massive threat level.
If she eliminates Juju, she's directly taking out one of her own allies for no benefit to herself and is still a threat anyways.
@@airtempest8945 the biggest thing for Naomi was the fact this was at top6. At top5 the 'safest' option was to eliminate Latrice and look at that Naomi is in the finale
Pangina chose Jimbo because she did a bad job that week. Jimbo was the least that week...
@@rikmobach9272 she can say what she wants but it was still not a smart idea
@@doomguy676 that’s for sure
This makes me think about All Stars 2 quite a bit. In the episode prior to the finale, imagine Detox standing in front of the lipstick case, thinking to herself “I can win against Roxxy and Alyssa, but I can’t beat Alaska or Katya.” So if she truly wanted to win that crown, she would’ve sent Alaska home instead of Alyssa. I always wonder what would’ve happened in that scenario.
I think Katya would be the winner
@@clemermoacir Detox had the better track record lol
Double crowning for detox and katya. Would have been better than the monet and trin double
Detox was full on second place or first if Alaska wasn’t there detox would’ve won. AND SHE WON THE TELL IT TO MY HEART LIPSYNC IDC
@bo The whole obsession with Track Record actually gets on my nerves. Like sure go ahead and count the wins but some wins are clearly with more than others.
If you win early in the season you are beating out a much larger number of competitors, an episode 1 win especially carries a lot of weight. Then there's the challenges which are considered bigger and more important to win; like snatch game, the roast, and the ball. Plus certain mini challenges that carry the weight of a full win like the reading challenge and puppets.
Monique howling in the background as Naomi collapses in Snatch Game still sends me to this day
Its the best part of the whole snatch game honestly
The cool thing is that being Manila’d/Pangina’d is probably literally the best thing that can happen to a queen.
maybe Manila but not Pangina, she got eliminated really early and i doubt she'll ever have the possibility of competing again
@@skyco5395 Pangina got more fans and is a judge on Drag Race Thailand. Not every queen needs to win Drag Race for their career.
It’s like being Shangela’d
@@LmaoMoni It really is! People absolutely pay attention to you and say you’re “robbed” etc, (I literally have no opinion on this btw I simply do not care that much), and plus it makes fans more loyal because then you’ve been “robbed”
@@ShirtFan Pangina was a actually a host on DRT before she was on UKVTW
This is what happens when you force social-based eliminations into a merit-based show. It's like trying to put a square peg into circular hole.
Drag Race saw that people liked Survivor's social-based tribal counsels, but didn't think about how in a show where the best person is supposed to win, why would you ever want someone to eliminate anyone but the worst person?
Also Alaska always eliminates the queen with the better track record any chance she gets. Tatianna over Detox, Alyssa over Roxxxy and Katya, Tatianna over Roxxxy.
Or maybe she just doesn't like tatianna
@@jii_yawn You don't have to not like someone to want to choose your friend.
I think Alaska really thought no one would remember Tati lol so she send home someone she thought the public wouldn't care, when it was the opposite lmao She said that in the reunion and I really think that's why she sent her home the second time
Rolaskatoxxx
To be fair, track record means shit in week 2 anyway. Being in the top week 1 and the bottom week 2 doesn’t say much for their skills when you know what the queen next to them has to offer. I actually think it was still very justified to save Detox over Tatianna, bc friendships aside, I think Alaska was also aware that Detox could bring some great showings, whereas Tatianna went from top to bottom both times she competed.
Saving Roxxxy was just the strategic merge of “I’ll keep my friend” and “lol she can’t win so I’m keeping her here”.
Naomi gave us more than just fashion in AS4. She improved leaps and bounds!
nah but he said the backlash was a bad as naomi.. which is cap because naomi went through some asia o hara level of hate
I still think her Snatch Game was better than Trinity’s.
She just gives legs and that's all she can do.
so many people hate this episode and it’s actually one of the lowest rated drag race episodes on imdb, but i honestly think its one of the best all stars episodes. it has everything you want, a good challenge, an amazing lipsync and drama. people only dont like it cause manila was eliminated but that was one of the best moments. manila wasnt robbed cause naomi used the format.
I totally agree with you!!
Right I loved this episode Naomi killed it
omg naomi slayed the lipsinc
I thought this was a great episode. It hurt because I love Manila and wanted her to win BUT Naomi made the obvious choice if she wanted to increase her own chances of winning so I can't even be mad at her.
Fans only wanted queens to use the format to eliminate a front runner if they agreed with it. For example, people wanting Detox to pick Alaska because she was getting hate for outperforming a fan favourite, Katya. Because Manila was deemed "likable", it's not okay.
It’s also such an iconic moment because Naomi mentioned throughout the season that she’s been a huge fan of Manila ever since she was young so that set up the fan storyline where Naomi would be below Manila , kinda like Joslyn fox and Courtney act. So for Naomi to send her inspiration HOMEEEEE is so iconic and shows she is as much of an icon as Manilla is
Manila is not an Icon. She's a Legend
When you realise the fan base only hate this episode and Naomi because of Manila being sent home, yet every season we always see ‘this is too boring! There’s no drama.’
Drag race is a double edged sword that most people aren’t ready to accept yet.
Naomi Smalls eliminating front runners is a POWER MOVE, but she even had valid reasons to give Latrice (you kept me, I’m keeping you) just a shame she had to experience such hate after it.
Isn't it normal that not all fans think the same? I for once hate drama, I prefer rupaul's best friend race. That's why AS7 is for me the ultimate drag show. I get to see the queens have fun, stay for the entire competition so we get to enjoy them all for the entire time. Then there are people who don't like the format and DO want the drama. In a sea full of fans you are bound to find different opinions and preferences.
@@wesleyimschoot7597 i think they mean how a fan will switch up their opinions. because rpdr fans do that, A LOT. theyre never happy.
@@lacedupangel i personally see it more as there being a side of the fandom that likes this type of stuff and a side that doesn't rather than it being the same people changing their minds, i mean it's not like we're all just one entity
@@sahwangshi I feel the same way about that argument too. Just because the average opinion changed to A, doesn’t mean each individual’s opinion did too. Could be new fans coming into the block with a different mindset, changing the average. Or in the other hand people are actually humans and change their mind all the time.
I hate the fan base like that. I remember the amount of hate Kandy got in her fight in untucked (which was really good TV for us) and then after that there was little drama or conflict on the season AND PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT HOW BORING IT WAS. If you want drama, don’t hate on people who are going to give you it
Thank you for reminding us Monet had Manila’s lipstick too. I think Manila just didn’t have a great social game that season, unfortunately.
She also didn't have a good social game outside of the show. Her bitter tweets basically giving her fans the opportunity to harass Naomi was terrible and that's why Naomi blocked her. Jimbo did the same thing with Pangina. Horrible behavior.
I mean manila investing a lot for this opportunity after losing her first season despite doing good and now even better, with her first time being in the bottom and working her ass off to win challenges and her commitment to the show, clearly making her the front runner but then one fallback and it's all gone for her. She's also a human and has feelings too, she is free to express sadness and bitterness because her being gone was unjustified compared to how she performed. Sadly it's just how the game works and she has to accept it and so do the fans. Also, Naomi does not deserve to get hate just for playing the game because either way, monet also had manila's lipstick. It's just sad seeing a front runner being taken away the chance of winning after all her hard work. it just blew out of proportions because some fans are overly sensitive and toxic who are only one-sided and does not even dare to see the other point of view.
@@aristotlecruz2021 nah, your not going to make her a victim for being complicit to the hate naomi received. P.o.c more specifically black queens of color already get the most hate by the fandom Factually speaking. She was willing to send monet home over latrice. She died on the sword she played by. How does she get to be bitter? Yes she's human but shes an social media influencer. Keyword influence
@@icannot1104 she's allowed to be bitter because she lost and was sent home despite doing the best job out of all of them and was cut off having a chance of winning and getting that cash prize? Manila is also a person of color, her name is literally the landmarks of her country and the asian-hate also exist. I can easily flip that last sentence, she is an influencer but she is also human.
@@aristotlecruz2021 the fact you pick and choose on what to and to not respond to is camp. That's not a conversation. Any points you can't refute you don't address. That's elementary. Point is Manila was willing to send monet home over latrice. ( Same as pangina and jimbo) but she lost the lipsync. She fell on the same sword she lived by . And please tell me how Manila being p.o.c correlates to her being complicit to hate and racism solely based on Manila's elimination. Then to add fuel to the fire! How is that defendable. Its wrong. Period. Admit that . Than we can have a conversation about whatever you wanna twist out of context.
Maybe a Game Changers about Valentina's controversial Congeniality win changing it from a fan vote to voted on by the queens? Which is how the Miss Congeniality pageant concept is supposed to work, to be fair. I never realized it wasn't voted on by the contestants until recently, I thought S9 "fan favorite" was an aberration, and it was lol just not how I thought.
I know this is was a reply from 7 months ago LOL, but I am actually pretty sure the voting for Miss Congeniality changed because season 10 voting was hacked by Bots. I'm pretty sure the Vixen had the most votes, like over a billion, and was followed by Dusty and Kalorie
The thing with this format is that, ultimately, the ones who end up losing are us. Never mind who deserves or doesn't deserve to win, having only the very best go all the way has always been satisfying in regular seasons because we got the opportunity to see the top shine and give us stellar performances. With this All Winners season, we are having the chance to enjoy a drama-free season that is focused entirely on the talents of each contestant, and what a joy it has been. Now, with the format where a queen gets eliminated because she is the best but didn't win the challenge that episode is just tiresome. We have had queens who won entire seasons with just 1 win on their belts, so seeing Manila not winning after collecting multiple wins and being the clear front runner feels disappointing. We wanted to see more of her, because she is entertaining and deserved the spotlight. Same goes with Bendela on All Stars 3. She eliminated herself, but she only did that because she didn't enjoy eliminating others. In my opinion, the only season where this format kind of worked was All Stars 2, but All Stars 2 was entirely packed with talent, unlike the other seasons.
You said that so well
Very well said
I've been wishing for a while now that shows like this would adopt the no-elimination format and it blows my mind Drag Race was the one to try it, and damn it's worked well. But like the craft competitions like Bakeoff or the pottery/jewelry ones which start out with 12 contestants so the first episode has 12 really cool projects to see take shape, and then 11, then 10, each time you lose a bit of extra variation, you lose the risk-takers, you lose the weird passionate amateurs, until finally you have 3 people trying to fill out an hour. I'm not sure the "high stakes" and drama are a worthwhile tradeoff really, especially since more recent Drag Race seasons are filled with queens who are more aware than ever that the drama can ruin their reputation
@@storageheater yes! Exactly!
Perfect summary.
People hate on AS4 for Naomi ✨ACTUALLY✨ playing the game. People say they want drama, shade, and twists until it impacts their fave. But then look at S13 and 14 and how annoyed everyone was at the lack of eliminations? Multiple queens have said that if you send the best home, you beat them and Naomi did that! It sucked to see Manila go home, but how interesting and shocking was it to see a contestant say "I'm going to send home the best" and then actually do it?? Naomi is up there with Ben De La for subverting expectations and giving us good TV.
People want drama, shade, and twists because of the entertainment they provide, but they don't want those things to get in the way of the best drag queen being crowned, because then that goes against the stated point of the show. It's why the result of AS3 was so disappointing - the twists and drama prevented the most talented queens from winning, which isn't what people want to see.
@@HeyLetsDoAThing You make some good points. I don't disagree with you but I do think that with a plot twist comes the potential for the consequences to negatively or positively impact the show. Deserving winners being eliminated is unfortunately a consequence of those twists in the competition being present. There are other things that the show could do that would prevent this though, like bringing back immunity or giving more people in the top who don't win an advantage that would help them in future challenges.
@@kellygreengables3936 The most deserving winners being eliminated is the problem with having those twists in the first place. Honestly, I think the biggest mistake the All Stars format ever made was taking eliminations out of the judges' hands and getting rid of the lipsync for your life. This isn't survivor. The competitors shouldn't be eliminating each other. We're here to see artists perform at their best and to see the best person crowned. I know the judges don't always make the best decisions either, but at least their job is to be judges. Now they just sit there, choose some tops and bottoms, and then get to sit back while the queens decide who goes home and then have to deal with any backlash from it, when they already get enough shit from this fanbase to begin with.
@@HeyLetsDoAThing THANK YOU!!! People always spin this "y'all never happy" narrative which is completely false.
I mean, I’m surprised to hear that you don’t understand why queens might prefer to be less ruthless. They make their living off their fanbases, and those fanbases can turn highly toxic on a dime. Queens have suffered horrific harassment post-season due to mishaps from the show. The queens are also peers and sometimes friends in the same industry - winning a season at the cost of your reputation is risky, and might not be beneficial in the long term.
Naomi derailed both seasons she was on… a true icon
ThTs not a positive though
I wish that the show were more able to edit big game moments like Naomi eliminating Manila, Blu eliminating Pangina, Pangina eliminating Jimbo into bigger narratives. Like on Survivor, huge blind sides are part of the fun of watching, but then in All Stars, you just have to watch the rest of the show without one of the strongest queens in it to make it more entertaining. I don't know how Drag Race could try to incorporate that or mitigate the loss of strong players, but I'm interested to see them keep trying.
Imagine after every few episodes, the eliminated queens comeback and just give critiques on certain things. This way, more drama will be created, and it might create more alliances and such.
Honestly though, she had to choose between a strong competitor who she claimed to be a long time fan of and someone who she might have felt in debt to. Either person that she could have chose would have been considered “shady”
Feels like I talk about Roxxxy so much in this community,
and I know that's probably not enough for a video, but we know she was a game changer in terms of lip syncs with her wig reveal
Preach it!
Oh yes this needs to be a video
I’d also throw in how she got a redemption arc in all stars 2 and everyone loved her … and then she didn’t go home, and still didn’t go home, and still didn’t go home
Shannel walked so Roxxie could run though.
We been knew
Trixie KNEW that this would happen to Naomi. Before that Pit Stop episode she always advised that you are playing a game in and out of the show. The long game is winning more fans on the outside.
Sometimes, the fans will react positively to a decision like Naomi's but I know a lot of people that did NOT take it well. (Granted, most of those people are Asian, like myself, and Manila's elimination meant that we were, yet again, not getting an Asian queen.)
For naomi doing that we have our first black all stars winning. Which is important as well.
@@icannot1104 but it was so forced and everybody KNEW that monet was only crowned so the fans would stop being clowns yes she did slay the finale but come on…
@@malak.2828 Yes she did slay the finale leave it at that😭 y'all keep trying to act like Monet won off of like Affirmative Action and not because she WON the final episode like Sasha won the final episode or Willow won the final episode or Yvie won the final episode and the show with a track record less than the people they beat😭 they were both crowned for different reasons but Monet made it to the finale and won the end
@@samuelsmalls6288 but like most if monet’s wins are very questionable in that season but yes i do after the finale is there for a reason and in a way if was like monet won the finale and trinity won track record wise so i guess it’s fair but like y’all monique was right there 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
Fuck Raja’s drag right
Didn’t Naomi and Monet say that Naomi during the Imrpov challenge actually slayed Manilla but was heavally EDITED to make it seem that she didn’t do THAT well.
It actually shows you that they again didn’t thought to her be that amazing.
Yeah Monet and Latrice both said Naomi devoured on both Jersey Justice and Snatch Game. It's such a shame that production wanted to push Manila when they honestly didn't even need to. Manila would've been top 4 or 5 without the assistance.
@@amcuevas omg imagine the fair TR of both Manila and Naomi
Manila: Top2 SAFE HIGH HIGH WIN WIN ELM
Naomi: HIGH HIGH WIN WIN BTM BTM WIN BTM
Omg and think about it, in this case Manila would not for Latrice cause it wouldn’t be possible. Maybe a Naomi/Manila Alliance could have formed. This powerhouse alliance imagine. Naomi would be e serious contender, Manila would still slay but it would be fairer, TTT would have had one WIN less.
You really have the RPDR content we all need..seriously, Im so grateful to you for all your hard work and dedication, as I'm sure many others are as well! COME THUR Jack 🥰
I don’t know if the idea is still up in the air, but a while back in one of your polls you wanted to make a video on Liv Lux vs. Utica and how both paved their way trying to win Miss Congeniality. I’d love to see that video come to fruition.
Me to. Deja Skye was trying super hard for that Mrs congeniality this past season. LoL I don't blame her though. It's almost a garuntee to get on All-stars.
Also just a whole video on Mrs congeniality and how it's changed.
Is it just me or did Nina Bonina seem like she was trying to get Ms Congeniality and favoured by fans but the editing of the show completely went against her and showed her as whiny and stuff? I’d LOVE a video on Ms Congeniality tho
@@chrisbuckley1785 Yes!! A video on ms congeniality would be so interesting, especially the changes throughout the seasons as the social game has changed as well
This is a great idea for a video!
Yes and then they started to attack Utica for strange things and you could see how she broke down
She knew she wasnt gonna winn and not even be MC
I’m confused why you stated with Naomi because Gia opened so many doors for people
My bad. I’ll delete this one and start over
@@JackFedYT 😎
I really feel like the Top 2 All Stars format could have been so much more interesting if it never had the pretence of fairness.
Queens can play strategically and it still ends up being fair most of the time because queens like Pangina and Alexis prove why gunning for front-runners can easily backfire, but it adds so much more suspense to know that if a queen is smart about it and wins at the right time she can flip the script.
Naomi didn't destroy the All Stars format, she just used it to it's full potential.
She literally did destroy it tho because next all starts they started letting the group vote as well 😂.
It did destroy it because they ended up having to change the entire format in AS5 to prevent a naomi moment from happening again 😅
Fact!!❤
@@hihowareya4004she did not destroy it. Monet picked Manila too
I just don’t get why people sent her so much hate for this , it’s a competition . The whole “I wanna be at the top with the best” is something ridiculous the queens always say , if I was fighting to win , I’m removing the biggest obstacle (biggest competition)
I just wanna point out something very quickly. In the beginning of the season, I believe Naomi should’ve been top 2 in ep 2 alongside Monet, and she also should’ve had a top spot for the Jersey Justice ep. I think, just like Jack pointed out so clearly, they just wanted to give her a rudemption arc and that’s it. Clearly Valentina, Mo, Monet, Trin and Manila were the ones reeeeeaaaaally considered for the crown.
i mean manila was doomed regardless because monet chose her too lol
just got to where you mention that in the video lol
I think one problem I have with the “send the best home” is that if it’s a season like UKVSTW, when the top 2 queens get sent home back to back while filler queens are left the crowning doesn’t feel as justified. Dgmw I love blu and with that top 4 she was the right choice
THIS. I understand not wanting the game to be predictable. But I'll take a predictable season with the democratic vote over whatever the hell UKVTW was, any day.
She really was a game changer because after she eliminated Manila, a lot did not continue watching the season. Monet's win was questionable as well.
She really was the only one who dared to do this, in fact I believe that it's a shame that Katya didn't try to pull Alaska's lipstick in the makeover, she messed up the most and was the frontrunner, giving you a justification and reason.
Monet tried to hide behind not trusting her and her wanting to save Latrice. She was clearly just saving her skin. Naomi was honest and said it how it was.
It was also incredibly smart, because it was in the late game, giving you few opportunities for backlash, a mistake Morgan and Pangina made. On top of a likely winner of the next challenge bragging about being fair, while you keep a weaker contestant in for her to eliminate. It was pure genious.
...Monet litteraly said "I'm a petty bitch from Brooklyn", you don't get any realer than that.
Honestly, as much as I love Manila and wanted her to win All Stars 4, Naomi did what she had to do and I've always respected her for that. And I agree with Heidi, that beating the best doesn't have to mean beating them at the end, cos if you send them home when you get the chance, you've beaten them! But I think production saw the chance to give Manila an Alaska moment (bottom in the makeover as their only weak moment of the season) and didn't think Naomi (or Monet) would take advantage of that situation since no one had before.
I agree with everything else, but what I think Heidi fails to understand witht he whole "beating the best thing" is that the queens who say that usually mean they want to beat the best by performing better; not by being strategic about their eliminations.
In other words, they want to play a "fair" game and let the best queen win (hopefully, themselves).
That being said, queens playing the game like Naomi is also just as valid. They're just two different aproaches.
Monet would have eliminated Manila as well so, as is the case with that season in general. Manila is really the iconic game-changer just for being such a threat that she guaranteed her own elimination.
It was naomi who changed the game by eliminating the threat of the competition
@@Swiiitdriiim Reading comprehension is fundamental
I NEVER understand why queens come into allstars like "I'm a winner, the crown is mine" and then refuse to send home the competition? bitch if you're here to win, play the fucking game. sure it might leave us with lackluster performers, but if you wanna win, you'll do anything it takes.
I honestly don't mind queens playing the game like Naomi did. But some queens want to win by being the best performer; not by strategy and taking advantage of a front-runner having a weak week. And that's entirelly valdi too.
For some queens the point isn't winning in and of itself, the point is to prove they're the best performer, and winning as a consequence to that.
I just wanted to say that I really think you make the best and most creative drag race content on RUclips. I really love this format and while many people talked about this iconic moment of the show you put a different perspective on it
I love gaggy eliminations. I literally mourned manila and pangina’s elimination but I think I don’t want it any other way.
_"But really, I just didn't trust the bitch"_
- Naomi during her Pit Stop appearance
slay
This is such a cool concept! And anything with Naomi Smalls love is instantly top tier. Her lip sync skills and level of personal branding cannot be disputed!
Naomi is all about her legs and that's it. There are better queens.
The whole fairness angle that most of the "playing it safe" queens take isn't really about the competition or the money, it's about interpretation. "I want to beat the best" is "I want the fans to think I'm the best". Sure, you could compete for just the money but for artists and performers the real prize is getting a show were you are the protagonist and your victory is the show's good ending. That is worth more than the money, that is gigs and talk shows and trending and visibility. The real fear is... Well... Being a Trixie; winning but never truly standing out and (even if waaay beyond her hands and having no choice in the matter) getting handed the win instead of "earning" it in the eyes of the fans.
I think Trixie's win is as valid as it could get and have never gave a fuck, but the lackluster reception of her crown makes it so that the fandom kinda... Doesn't really acknowledge that she won?
Anyway, I'm rambling. Everyone is talking about Pangina and Jimbo as examples of the format, but no one is talking about Blu who actually won and deservedly so. Her eliminating Pangina wasn't as controversial because Pangina opened the door for it, so we all agree Blu was just playing the game, not starting it and so when she wins some fans kinda go "well, yeah, for lack of a better queen".
It is kinda scary to win "by default" in the eyes of the fans, I think if Naomi had actually won after eliminating Manila, the fandom wouldn't have been as kind to her.
Firstly, brilliant concept for a series, it gives you such freedom and so many girls to talk about!
Secondly, I'm so glad you're starting with Naomi. Even outside of the lipstick moment, she's such a powerhouse of a queen and I think a lot of people forget how strong she was in both seasons!
i love this new series so much already and i cant wait to see which other queens you highlight!!! an amazing video as always!!❤️❤️
I always felt Naomi was overlooked and that she was much more a star and made more waves than people gave her credit for. I'm glad you're highliting her so much as she's one of my faves of faves too
I mean her Snatch Games in As4 was sooo good, her fashion amazing, she can lipsync amazing, she can sow, she's funny etc etc etc...
Even though I would have really liked for Manila to win I think she f###ed up the social game. By waving the option of eliminating Valentina in the beginning she lost Trinity’s support and it went all downhill from there. I completely understand her loyalty towards Latrice, but telling everyone up front that she will chop them over her bestie just made it impossible not to eliminate her. Because everyone knew that if they were in the bottom with Latrice and Manila won, they are out.
100% agreed on all fronts. Naomi actually became a favourite of mine for daring to play the game as the producers had it. UK vs the World was messy and phenomenal for being that x10. So memorable.
This makes me think about a Drag Race All Stars: Gamechangers format, and who we'd cast on it. Obviously Naomi is a lock, but who else do we put in there? (No casting of winners please)
From Season 1 I'd pick:
- Ongina (OG fan fave)
- Shannel (first ever lipsynch ruveal/scripted fake accident)
- Akashia (OG lipsynch assassin)
- Nina Flowers (first ever robbed queen/runner-up/Ms. Congeniality)
- Porkchop (duh)
- Tammie Brown (first ever kooky queen, and still one of the best)
disliking is one thing, but if you direct a queen any hate for their actions on the show you're a bad person. 75% of it is near-fiction and the other 25% is between the queens alone.
“ I so many videos talking about how much I love Naomi but I’m gonna stop it here.”
:(
“Surprise! I’m gonna be talking about her again very soon.”
:)
What about «All Stars: Game Changers» where all Drag Race rules are out of effects and the Queens must define and agree the season's rules?
OH THIS!!! THIS IS GOOD
I love this series, i can't wait to see whos gonna come next! I'm guessing Dela, Sasha Velour, Roxxxy Andrews and maybe Pangina and/or Adore would be in this series
I think an interesting format would be to do the AS4 LaLaPaRuza on steroids. The maxi-challenge winner is immune from elimination, while the bottom queen can challenge any of the safe queens to a Lip Sync for Your Life. I know Ru doesn't like to eliminate All Stars herself, but it's an interesting thought experiment that introduces an element of calculated risk to the competition. Like, the bottom queen has to bet on who she can take in a lip sync, and if it's the frontrunner, she has to prove why the frontrunner should take her place in the bottom and go home. I think it would allow for more strategic choices and dramatic scenarios, while still playing to the idea that winner of the whole thing should be somebody who has outperformed the competition, either in the challenges or the lip syncs. I don't know. Just a fun idea...
I personally think all stars in general shouldn’t necessarily have “eliminations” I love the idea of being able to see all the queens in all the competition
Same. The current season has been much better for it!
i hope you're going to keep on this series, it is awesome!
honestly it always bothered me that people were so up in arms that naomi eliminated manila. like this is a competition for 100k, why would you not want to eliminate your strongest competition at that point. people always say “i want to beat the best” well if you won the challenge and the best is in the bottom… you already have, send them packing 🤷🏼♂️
I always think it is funny when people complain eliminating a big competition is "unfair"
It is a competition, you need to get rid of the ones who pose a threat.
After watching the all winners season, I realize how apart from the shocking elimination and the odd winning, this was a forgettable semi negative season to me.
I dont find manilas elimination unfair. Its how the game works just like trinity said “thats how the cookie is going to crumble for a lot of this girls, and there could only be one”
Naomi did what you’re supposed to do in that format, it’s weird that the fans don’t understand that it’s a game, and it’s not just about presenting great drag, it’s also about playing the game smart
It’s bc they’re racist tbh
All Stars isn’t like regular Drag Race either. Everyone has had resources, more coin to spend and sometimes significant time to grow. Everyone is a threat, even those that skate by or aren’t doing well. Tables can turn quickly, Naomi simply seised the opportunity to get rid of a strong competitor for the crown while also keeping her promise to someone who actually saved her ass from going home. ‘Wanna compete with the best’ they already are when they are on All Stars. You want to win, you gotta send the people home that are threats. She had the guts to do it.
Naomi did a great job, and actually played the game correctly when aiming to win. It's just how things are.
Do y'all think Monet's win would have been better received if she was the one sending Manila home? Or would the hate been worse?
Mmm if anything it should of been Monique over Monet.
The whole “double winner” was due to the backlash of All Stars winners being “blonde and white.” Which is true.
You can tell this was an after thought because if this was genuine decision then they would’ve filmed Trinity and Monet being crowned at the same time. Not two different screen cuts of them getting crowned.
Which is why Trinity looked terrified when she watched the finale live at a booking.
BTW: they film all the finalist being crowned before the show airs. Due to Perez Hilton leaking Raja winning season three on the premier episode.
So no one knows who wins until it airs
@@Khryssi05 that's not the question but work! I do agree that Monique was s deserving winner too, but Monet did eat that whole finale episode so...
@@agurbenur3716 it should be based off the entire season not just an episode.
Just to be fair it should of been only Trinity winning. Especially since Shea won the next season of AS5
@@Khryssi05 if that was true then Sasha Velour shouldn’t have beat Shea 😂
Monet just won because she is black.
"Life's Not Fair"
I tell myself this quote whenever things do not go as planned in any situation.
#ThanksNaomi
the greatest rugirl of them all!! she gives you looks, she gives you unforgettable lipsyncs, she gives you DRAMA, yeah perhaps she ruined a season with a choice but what a moment that was
Random Naomi story: I was performing at Mickeys upstairs and was struggling to pin some hair in and Naomi (out of drag) showed up out of NOWHERE to help me pin in it. Later I was waiting for the elevator to take my bag downstairs and when it opened it was full of stuff - again, Naomi appeared out of NOWHERE and carried it downstairs for me while I was like "Omg please stop you don't have to" the whole time. Later that night I was performing at Mary's WeHo and I tripped on the carpet while trying to do a kick and look up, and Naomi is there with a dollar and a smile.
I think Naomi might be an angel?
Anyway
Naomi eliminating Manila solidified AS4 as one of my favorite All Star season (we just don’t talk about S&tKG and that poorly edited finale)
Anyone else here after she revealed more behind the scenes circumstances that added to her decision?
So apparently production only allowed the queens to hang out in their respective teams while waiting for the judging for the challenge. Manila and Naomi became close and gassed each other up because they got to watch the other teams do their improv and they both agreed that they did the best and ate everyone else up. Manila gassed Naomi saying she did amazing.
During the judging, the panel was saying that Manila overshadowed Naomi and immediately after, Manila's tone changed and started to echo the judges' comments saying 'yeah girl, I ate you up' backstage. That's where Naomi decided to never trust Manila (obviously added to the fact that Manila tried to play Monet).
Speaking of game changers let's talk about how Katya is the sole reason for Trinity's Spin Me Right Round outfit
impatiently waiting for the time when everyone realizes that Naomi fucking Smalls is a LEGEND
Naomi Smalls was the first queen I ever saw walk into any Drag Race werkroom, ever! Season 8 was the first season I watched when I was thirteen- so, for me, Naomi has always kind of been THAT girl.
- Her Season 8 entrance was a GAG (For me, at the time)
- Her 'Farm runway' outfit was a GAG
- Her Paper dress runway was a GAG
- Her finale 'Legs' number was a GAG
- Her Acid Betty slaying lipsync was a GAG
- Her AS4 Promo/ promo look was a GAG
She's had so many iconic moments, too many to think of off the bat! Naomi Smalls is for sure (for me) in the Top 10 most iconic RPDR Queens ever. Period.
In my top 10 I'd say:
(No particular order)
Naomi Smalls, Trixie Mattel, Bob The Drag Queen, Bimini (Formerly Bon Boulash), Silky Nutmeg Ganache, Bianca Del Rio, Shangela, Kennedy Davenport, Violet Chachki & Katya Zamolodchikova ... Just my op
Season 7 supremacy lol!
Naomi truly is a wild card for this show
She's so stunning in the current Werq Tour. She doesn't even lip synch half the time. Simply strikes a pose. lol
I think the fact that strategic actions lead to worse TV suggests that the format is not correct for making better tv. It’s really not Naomi’s fault, but this episode ruined AS4 for me. I’m glad they changed the format.
"You're a liar and this is why Derrick don't like you." Drag Race is just peak television
As a viewer, it's kinda annoying that the top players get axed. That's why I don't like UKvsTW. The moment that pangina was eliminated I didn't care anymore about the show anymore, in fact, I didn't keep watching it because that. We want to see people work hard and get to the end in a "fair" way. I was in the competition, I'll axed the strongest the moment that I could cuz it the smartest choice.
So, personally, I think the elimination system should be either revised or entirely dismissed. The big problem is that when you fail in the main series, they lypsinc but in AS, they depend of the opinions of others and the can't fight back.
I think they should keep the score system of AS7, bring back bad critics and top 2 and bottom 2. The winner of the top 2 gets to choose either block or deduct a point from the bottom 2. No one goes home except from maybe the middle of season? Idk something like that
I like this concept. For all stars.
@@lemongan I do like it in the regular seasons when a queen doesn't go home the first episode. At least let us see a little more of all of them.
@@lemongan yeah, just for AS, main series have to keep eliminations. With the score system and some twists here and there, the show can be really exciting!
It’s so annoying to me when a large part of the fan base hates a queen for something they do (Naomi, Laganja, brita etc) on the show and then when it’s popular to like them again they switch up and act like they weren’t sending hate to and death threats to queens.
I did miss Manila and wanted to see more of her, but I didn’t hate Naomi for sending her home. I thought it was an Allstars move.
Naomi eliminating Manila was probably the best part of AS4 cause I barely remember that season. When they all play good judy it gets boring and predictable for me.
I was rooting for Manilla and Latrice but it's the game. She is right, life isn't fair and Manilla doesn't need to win a season, she already is a superstar. Manilla, Shangela, Jimbo, Pangina, TKB... the unfairly eliminated queens are more iconic because of that imo. On a side note, I absolutely love Naomi's run on AS4, I wish she'd come back again.
Your smile is a Game Changer. It could launch a thousand ships or bring about world peace. That being said, I hope you never scrutinize when you choose to share it because the answer is always yes.
I'm still so sad that Manila didn't get a crown.
Naomi wil forever be iconic, we all remember that moment! Life's Not Fair
monet didn't throw the lipsync, she did a serviceable job on that lipsync, she just didn't go for dramatics. i will stand by this opinion
I think it's good that the queens are scared (for a lack of better words) to do this more. I love Trixie's post-drag race career and she's definitely one of the most successful queens in the franchise, but not even having the two frontrunners of the season in the final lip-sync makes the ending unsatisfying. That's how I imagine every season would be if queens were always eliminating the more threatening queen. Although, it is fantastic TV when it's unexpected like Naomi
Loving the Survivor referenced with "Game Changers" ...A Drag Race: Game Changers season would be legendary
As a bit of a tangent, I think the old format could still work if the queens and not RuPaul decides the bottom 2. In the end, if you really want the queens to take the responsibility of eliminating, let them fully take it, allow the queens to decide on the bottom 2 and send someone home either collectively or as the winner of the episode. Not the random bottom 3 or if you're not in the top then you're in the bottom bullshit either. This way the lipsync for your life can also come back to All Stars, giving us more stakes and more exciting lipsyncs (don't get me wrong I actually really enjoy the lipsync assassin idea but I don't know that it's super necessary)
Great series concept! It’s really nice to see a fresh approach to RPDR analysis
For me, I enjoyed Naomi’s run than Monet, she had more memorable iconic performances.
The way I feel about AS4 is the same way I feel about AS3, the clear front runner gets sent home (or quits) midway leaving the runner up (and/or 2nd runner up 💀) at best to win.
I think alot of people in the fandom forget the fact that it's a competition, every girl is competing against each other for the crown, and if you make a wrong move you're out. Naomi did what she had to do cause she wanted to win, much like every other girl. it makes the most sense to eliminate your biggest competition.
I understand the strategy around sending Manila home and that she had a high chance of getting sent home by someone else, but man did it still break my heart. She’s very successful even without a crown, but I was so excited to see her win. 🇵🇭
The Queens not playing the All Star seasons the way I thought it would have been - Survivor or Big Brother type show - alliances, ruthless elimination. Kudos to Naomi for shaking shit up.
i absolutely need naomi on an international season.. her lipsync are something so special and yes I’ll say it, just pure talent wise (no stunts included) NAOMI is the best lipsyncer out of everyone currently in the rupaul’s drag race franchise