This is the best video on youtube that explains the trailblazer envoy vvt phaser and how oil pressure turns it. About to tackle a timing chain replacement on my 2002. Thank goodness mine is 2WD. What brand phaser did you end up replacing it with?
Have to say I believe it was all from no flow of oil due to a clogged pick up tube. I've picked build up out of my pick up tube going through my drain plug hole just enough to unclogg it. I used a coat hanger bent at the right spot and being very gentle.
make sure there's no tiny specks that can impede the seal! thanks. I'm gonna start using an MMO flush before the oil change. Also add some into the gas - not the full 4 oz/10 gallons but cut in half. So a pint as flush and 2 oz per 10 gallons.
No I don't think it would just skip one tooth on one cam gear and keep running it's usually going to shear all the teeth and then it's done my guess is you're probably about to drop a valve seat I would get that checked and change heads before it ruins your engine
Allen do you know if when you removed the oil pan did it have a oil pan gasket or did it have silicone ? And if it had a gasket was it held on by a rivet or was it foam or other type of material. Please answer thanks, Gabe.
how was the truck running after you first had it all together? was it stalling at a stop and smoking white smoke? I had a valve job done in my head and replaced all the gaskets and seals but it's running like crap.
really the truck always and still is running seemingly great it's just a check engine light if it weren't for the light I wouldn't think anything was wrong
@@GibsonGarage The same thing is happening to us...New timing chain ran around 50 miles perfect and when i put the cruise control on 65mph service engine came on. But it still running fine, Just the light, Did it give you an OBD error code>
did you figure your issue out? i have 04 tb with 4.2 that seems to maybe have an issue in this area of the engine. symptoms i have: random engine knock= almost sounds like a diesel, and a random engine noise that is faster then the knock, kinda a tapping noise, but not a friendly sound. these noises come and go, sometimes the faster tapping is loud, sometimes its faint. sometimes i can go weeks without it, other times its there every drive. i also get p0016 randomly. i read the 04 4.2 p0016 can mean cam phazer is having a problem. if i change the oil aggressively, around 1000 miles or less, i can make the p0016 come significantly less often maybe a few times a month driving 60 miles everyday on the highway, i drive it hard by default btw. if my oil is a little older(4000-6000 miles) it maybe produce p0016 about every few days. also if i drive it less aggressively it seems to produce the p0116 less frequently. i have paid an independent shop and my local stealership thousands of dollars over the years to fix this, and i dont remmber what all they did, plus i wouldnt have understood it at the time, but no ones "solution" lasted more then 3 weeks. also its done this since bought this in 2010, so about 7 years at this point lol. last year i decided i have had enough and decided to look into this and all future issues my self. i should also note that when i accelerate hard sometimes it back fires, but mostly when the oil is a little older and going through its phase of producing more p0016 then usual. i used to think it ran fine other then the cruise not working when the p0016 is either pending or its ses fully shown on the dash, but i picked up another trailblazer with the 4.2 and it runs better, sounds better, and has more power then my 04. i should also note that my 04, the one with the issues, goes through phases of having good power and then other times not as much, maybe 10%less, its not much of a difference, but i can tell. im hoping that my timing chain is somehow the issue of this cam phaser. bad thing is there is a chance that the stealership may have replaced it. im hoping if they did, that they forgot to set it to full advanced before they tightened its bolt down. oh and i have the 4wd model too so yeah this is going to be extra fun. 2 years ago i hired everything including my oil changes done. now i have enough tools and bravery i will do what ever it takes to fix this thing my self. do you have any theories you'd be willing to share? i wont share too much more but the same stealership told me i needed a new transmission about 1.5 years ago and when i asked them what exactly would cause a catastrophic failure of every single replaceable part on this very serviceable unit and they didnt have an answer is when i realized how shady/incompetent they were. i fixed it with a new transmission pump for $75 off of ebay and its been great since. i have had this sort of thing happen time and time again. anyways any theories about the problems my 04 is having?
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 wow i typed a lot above. anyways i changed the timing components. its been so long i dont remember what any of it was called but i bought a complete kit offline for much less than what autozone wanted and changed it all my self.. it was a bitch to get the oil pan down. after looking at everything back then i seem to remember thinking that my chain was loose and the tensioner was at its max so it was sloppy, but i could be wrong. anyways this did fix my random p0016 for a couple of years. but now i have new problems. i dont know my miles now but i am guesssing around 240,000. its almost like the engine is worn past being able to provide oil pressure. as the vhicle warms up the engine knock comes in and as it knocks. i also start to loose power and started getting ses codes. i shut the vehicle off and let it cool off for maybe 40 mins or so. i start the engine up and the knock is there but only for about 1 second then the knock is gone, assuming oil is able to get to somewhere it wasnt able to get to earlier. until it warms up again. it normally takes about 15-25 minutes and it gets to knocking bad. but more to your question, i am tempted to see if i could flush the oil many times but that gets expensive, especially knowing i was changing the oil every 1,000 miles or so. i suspect oil pressure is my issue, now is it from the crank being worn or is it the pump? can they plug? i dont know i need to read and think about this some more
@@jasonbrown467 good luck. I've been reading all I can on MMO. I'm gonna start using it. So far - we had a Lucas fuel treatment when new spark plugs went in - around 200K. It sounds rough. Too bad these oil pans can not be cleaned out - unless you take the whole car apart. So I think MMO will be the best option - right now it's kind of preventative. I have not gotten a diagnostic reading. Still there's probably tons of codes being tripped anyway. haha. 4wd - they just reset 12 codes - said they were old. So far the actuator has held up since I keep it in 2wd. So I didn't know to only go into 4WD while not moving. Yeah I'm trying to be extra careful now. I just got a plate reinforcement for a hole in the frame - luckily it was in the neutral zone. So it should hold - then did extra rust treatment. Putting Cosmoline on it tomorrow. Good luck with that engine. I am totally anti-mechanical. haha.
@@jasonbrown467 Yeah we got the cam actuator and ignition coil replaced - from that same code. We have the same miles also. So - no back firing or knocking. Anyway - this type of engine - the seals get clogged up I guess. "because of a bad seal on the valve cover. ...These engines were notorious for carbon buildup and clogged injectors. " that's cool that you replaced the transmission pump even after the dealer couldn't answer you! haha. I just had the deal do the differential pinion seal and rear diff gasket and seal. So it sounds a bit better but also got new tires. The rear swaybar end link bolt snapped from rust and punctured the tire. haha. Oh well -... I think with MMO - this could save the engine. We've got the transmission "flushed" at 45K and then at 100K and so I'm gonna finally get the transmission filter changed and the pan cleaned out - at the dealer. I don't want them to use the flush machine though - who knows if that will mess up the clutch.
@@jasonbrown467 So try Marvel Mystery Oil - that naptha seems to be a cure-all since it's a mild solvent but also a lubricant. It's used to water proof canvas - that's my personal experience with Naptha. haha. so tomorrow I'll put a couple ounces in the gas tank and fill it up. then right before the next oil change I'll put in a few ounces in the crankcase. And then just see what happens - taking it easy on that stuff for the catalytic converter, fuel injectors, etc. - Wow - you should get a prize for taking out the oil pan and fixing the timing chain! That's very impressive. thanks for sharing.
These motors are fussy must use a quality 5w-30 and that vvt solenoid has to be clean and clear. Other than that they can go to 300000 miles but the maintenance is key.
On this engine you can just loosen the intake manifold in order to remove the valve cover, no need to remove it, the gaskets are reusable, save some time there.
Should the cam actuator rotate freely when removed from the Cam? I seen when you hit yours with air it rotated normally buy can you turn it by hand, or should you be able too?
Justin Smith yes it moves fairly easy it only takes about 30 PSI to get it to start moving and I had my hose set to 40 you got to think when you're driving your engine the only hit a Max of about 60 PSI of oil pressure
Ok so when installing a New phaser, once you have chain on and phaser installed loosely on the cam shaft, turned make sure the phaser itself(not sprocket) is rotated CLOCKWISE before tightening bolt correct? At rest, a New phaser should already be CLOCKWISE in advanced position correct?
Gibson Automotive Design - I appreciate the response! I've only just got my valve cover off! The damn intake plenum was enough to make me rage! I had to walk away a few days and go fishing!
It was the camshaft stuck all the way advanced. I also later learned oil pressure is key to the variable timing working properly in this vehicle. If you've got to thin of oil your pressure may not get high enough to fully advance the camshaft same goes if you put too thick of oil in there raising the pressure too high the camshaft would be forced into full advance at low RPM. I think the camshaft is fully Advanced at full throttle at about 60 PSI and normally would want to run about 35-40 PSI at idle when warm so whatever weight oil you need to keep your pressure at that level as what you need to do usually 10w30 is just about right for this region the California Valley
I don't blame you thanks for the comment though it's obviously super common it should be a recall at least a TSB I just wish I knew what the exact problem is from the factory, a phaser, the cam/crank sensors they used, the ECM, or is it simply dirty oil plugging stuff up too easily who knows
This video convinced me that I'm going to live with my code P1345 till the car dies.
This is the best video on youtube that explains the trailblazer envoy vvt phaser and how oil pressure turns it. About to tackle a timing chain replacement on my 2002. Thank goodness mine is 2WD. What brand phaser did you end up replacing it with?
Cheapest I could find
Having the same problem.Did you ever get it fixed?
Have to say I believe it was all from no flow of oil due to a clogged pick up tube.
I've picked build up out of my pick up tube going through my drain plug hole just enough to unclogg it. I used a coat hanger bent at the right spot and being very gentle.
Did this fix it after doing the work again..we seem to be running similar issue?
make sure there's no tiny specks that can impede the seal! thanks. I'm gonna start using an MMO flush before the oil change. Also add some into the gas - not the full 4 oz/10 gallons but cut in half. So a pint as flush and 2 oz per 10 gallons.
Saved me from spending 900$ on the vvt actuator!
It is becoming very obvious to me why mechanics can go nuts working on these things .
My VORTEC 4200 makes a noticible noise for 30 to 60 seconds after starting. Only after sitting awhile. What would cause it to do so ??
Mine is idle ticking sound but ad long as I step on the pedal gas the ticking is gone. Do you think it is timing chain slapped.
No I don't think it would just skip one tooth on one cam gear and keep running it's usually going to shear all the teeth and then it's done my guess is you're probably about to drop a valve seat I would get that checked and change heads before it ruins your engine
Can you tell me what position the crank sprocket timing mark is in at TDC. Mine is at 3 o'clock, is this correct. It says to set timing at 5 o'clock.
Sorry it was a long time ago and I don't have the vehicle anymore
Allen do you know if when you removed the oil pan did it have a oil pan gasket or did it have silicone ? And if it had a gasket was it held on by a rivet or was it foam or other type of material. Please answer thanks, Gabe.
It was siliconed I used a putty knife and a hammer to get it off and I cleaned it and used black RTV when I put it back together
@@GibsonGarage thank you Allan. Like your videos.
how was the truck running after you first had it all together? was it stalling at a stop and smoking white smoke? I had a valve job done in my head and replaced all the gaskets and seals but it's running like crap.
really the truck always and still is running seemingly great it's just a check engine light if it weren't for the light I wouldn't think anything was wrong
@@GibsonGarage The same thing is happening to us...New timing chain ran around 50 miles perfect and when i put the cruise control on 65mph service engine came on. But it still running fine, Just the light,
Did it give you an OBD error code>
did you figure your issue out? i have 04 tb with 4.2 that seems to maybe have an issue in this area of the engine. symptoms i have: random engine knock= almost sounds like a diesel, and a random engine noise that is faster then the knock, kinda a tapping noise, but not a friendly sound. these noises come and go, sometimes the faster tapping is loud, sometimes its faint. sometimes i can go weeks without it, other times its there every drive. i also get p0016 randomly. i read the 04 4.2 p0016 can mean cam phazer is having a problem. if i change the oil aggressively, around 1000 miles or less, i can make the p0016 come significantly less often maybe a few times a month driving 60 miles everyday on the highway, i drive it hard by default btw. if my oil is a little older(4000-6000 miles) it maybe produce p0016 about every few days. also if i drive it less aggressively it seems to produce the p0116 less frequently. i have paid an independent shop and my local stealership thousands of dollars over the years to fix this, and i dont remmber what all they did, plus i wouldnt have understood it at the time, but no ones "solution" lasted more then 3 weeks. also its done this since bought this in 2010, so about 7 years at this point lol. last year i decided i have had enough and decided to look into this and all future issues my self. i should also note that when i accelerate hard sometimes it back fires, but mostly when the oil is a little older and going through its phase of producing more p0016 then usual. i used to think it ran fine other then the cruise not working when the p0016 is either pending or its ses fully shown on the dash, but i picked up another trailblazer with the 4.2 and it runs better, sounds better, and has more power then my 04. i should also note that my 04, the one with the issues, goes through phases of having good power and then other times not as much, maybe 10%less, its not much of a difference, but i can tell. im hoping that my timing chain is somehow the issue of this cam phaser. bad thing is there is a chance that the stealership may have replaced it. im hoping if they did, that they forgot to set it to full advanced before they tightened its bolt down. oh and i have the 4wd model too so yeah this is going to be extra fun. 2 years ago i hired everything including my oil changes done. now i have enough tools and bravery i will do what ever it takes to fix this thing my self. do you have any theories you'd be willing to share? i wont share too much more but the same stealership told me i needed a new transmission about 1.5 years ago and when i asked them what exactly would cause a catastrophic failure of every single replaceable part on this very serviceable unit and they didnt have an answer is when i realized how shady/incompetent they were. i fixed it with a new transmission pump for $75 off of ebay and its been great since. i have had this sort of thing happen time and time again. anyways any theories about the problems my 04 is having?
did you try a bit of MMO - pint before oil change as flush - and 2 oz per 10 gallons in the gas. I'm gonna try that on my 04 tb. about at 235K
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 wow i typed a lot above. anyways i changed the timing components. its been so long i dont remember what any of it was called but i bought a complete kit offline for much less than what autozone wanted and changed it all my self.. it was a bitch to get the oil pan down. after looking at everything back then i seem to remember thinking that my chain was loose and the tensioner was at its max so it was sloppy, but i could be wrong. anyways this did fix my random p0016 for a couple of years. but now i have new problems. i dont know my miles now but i am guesssing around 240,000. its almost like the engine is worn past being able to provide oil pressure. as the vhicle warms up the engine knock comes in and as it knocks. i also start to loose power and started getting ses codes. i shut the vehicle off and let it cool off for maybe 40 mins or so. i start the engine up and the knock is there but only for about 1 second then the knock is gone, assuming oil is able to get to somewhere it wasnt able to get to earlier. until it warms up again. it normally takes about 15-25 minutes and it gets to knocking bad. but more to your question, i am tempted to see if i could flush the oil many times but that gets expensive, especially knowing i was changing the oil every 1,000 miles or so. i suspect oil pressure is my issue, now is it from the crank being worn or is it the pump? can they plug? i dont know i need to read and think about this some more
@@jasonbrown467 good luck. I've been reading all I can on MMO. I'm gonna start using it. So far - we had a Lucas fuel treatment when new spark plugs went in - around 200K. It sounds rough. Too bad these oil pans can not be cleaned out - unless you take the whole car apart. So I think MMO will be the best option - right now it's kind of preventative. I have not gotten a diagnostic reading. Still there's probably tons of codes being tripped anyway. haha. 4wd - they just reset 12 codes - said they were old. So far the actuator has held up since I keep it in 2wd. So I didn't know to only go into 4WD while not moving. Yeah I'm trying to be extra careful now. I just got a plate reinforcement for a hole in the frame - luckily it was in the neutral zone. So it should hold - then did extra rust treatment. Putting Cosmoline on it tomorrow. Good luck with that engine. I am totally anti-mechanical. haha.
@@jasonbrown467 Yeah we got the cam actuator and ignition coil replaced - from that same code. We have the same miles also. So - no back firing or knocking. Anyway - this type of engine - the seals get clogged up I guess. "because of a bad seal on the valve cover. ...These engines were notorious for carbon buildup and clogged injectors. " that's cool that you replaced the transmission pump even after the dealer couldn't answer you! haha. I just had the deal do the differential pinion seal and rear diff gasket and seal. So it sounds a bit better but also got new tires. The rear swaybar end link bolt snapped from rust and punctured the tire. haha. Oh well -... I think with MMO - this could save the engine. We've got the transmission "flushed" at 45K and then at 100K and so I'm gonna finally get the transmission filter changed and the pan cleaned out - at the dealer. I don't want them to use the flush machine though - who knows if that will mess up the clutch.
@@jasonbrown467 So try Marvel Mystery Oil - that naptha seems to be a cure-all since it's a mild solvent but also a lubricant. It's used to water proof canvas - that's my personal experience with Naptha. haha. so tomorrow I'll put a couple ounces in the gas tank and fill it up. then right before the next oil change I'll put in a few ounces in the crankcase. And then just see what happens - taking it easy on that stuff for the catalytic converter, fuel injectors, etc. - Wow - you should get a prize for taking out the oil pan and fixing the timing chain! That's very impressive. thanks for sharing.
These motors are fussy must use a quality 5w-30 and that vvt solenoid has to be clean and clear. Other than that they can go to 300000 miles but the maintenance is key.
On this engine you can just loosen the intake manifold in order to remove the valve cover, no need to remove it, the gaskets are reusable, save some time there.
Can u get upper motor knockesh sounds from a bad acuator
Maybe if something inside is the actuator is broke
@@GibsonGarage I threw air to the lil hole and it just gets stuck open and I bang it back down
Should the cam actuator rotate freely when removed from the Cam? I seen when you hit yours with air it rotated normally buy can you turn it by hand, or should you be able too?
Justin Smith yes it moves fairly easy it only takes about 30 PSI to get it to start moving and I had my hose set to 40 you got to think when you're driving your engine the only hit a Max of about 60 PSI of oil pressure
Ok so when installing a New phaser, once you have chain on and phaser installed loosely on the cam shaft, turned make sure the phaser itself(not sprocket) is rotated CLOCKWISE before tightening bolt correct? At rest, a New phaser should already be CLOCKWISE in advanced position correct?
Sorry so many questions, just wanna BE sure.
How much do we torque it down too? And then 135. And I guess u bought a book on the envoy?
Brett Willborn I don't remember the torque specs it's been a while now and the book went back with the owner
Did you have any issues after getting things back together this time?
Joshua Potter no everything is still running the same
Gibson Automotive Design - I appreciate the response! I've only just got my valve cover off! The damn intake plenum was enough to make me rage! I had to walk away a few days and go fishing!
Gibson Automotive Specialists G.A.S. did u have too advance the cam before u tighten it . And what did u tighten too?
How can u know its timmy chain
I ruled out everything else
@@GibsonGarage Mine is in the shop right now tc is in question replaced all sensors plugs and coils still running very rough .
Has anyone ever considered drilling an access hole in the oil pan while still in the car to remove the pickup tube on a timing chain job?
Did you ever get a reply?
😂
yes, PLEASE, show us the motor running once you are done
Have a 07 trailblazer poo17
Can you tell us what was the error code ? Was P0017 ?
It was the camshaft stuck all the way advanced. I also later learned oil pressure is key to the variable timing working properly in this vehicle. If you've got to thin of oil your pressure may not get high enough to fully advance the camshaft same goes if you put too thick of oil in there raising the pressure too high the camshaft would be forced into full advance at low RPM. I think the camshaft is fully Advanced at full throttle at about 60 PSI and normally would want to run about 35-40 PSI at idle when warm so whatever weight oil you need to keep your pressure at that level as what you need to do usually 10w30 is just about right for this region the California Valley
It means your timing skipped a tooth. Mine is throwing same code.
2005 failblazer, worst vehicle I ever purchased. spent so much money/time on it and never found the issue.
I don't blame you thanks for the comment though it's obviously super common it should be a recall at least a TSB I just wish I knew what the exact problem is from the factory, a phaser, the cam/crank sensors they used, the ECM, or is it simply dirty oil plugging stuff up too easily who knows