Remember everyone. Gacha games are a marathon. Pace yourself. Don't watch other people roll to make yourself fomo. Save for a unit you really want when you know ahead of time. Learn the systems and most importantly have fun. Quit when the game is work not play. (Says a guy who f2p his way to getting 4 np5 ssr units in fgo and c6 raiden shogun in genshin impact)
One thing also older gacha games have is that no matter how strong an unit is very rare for a single unit to carry you, FGO have Heracles but that requires bond CE which is not realistic for a new player, compared to Arknights and the Wisadel problem is kinda funny see how some games deal with the difficulty
Kids these days have it good. They're learning about multicore farming, when back then we had Arash with MLB Imaginary Around, double Waver, and our AoE NP choice with KScope. And ngl, starting JP a few months back made me feel nostalgic about those kinds of comps lol
The Problem with Nikke spark is you need to MLB them with dupes especially the collab units that might not appear in the shop ever again while BA, you only need one copy and are just time gated to fully max them. So no, Nikke gacha isn't superior. It's just an illusion and inferior. 😅 Doesn't help the fact their level csp is outrageous. I'm level 450ish for my units and I still feel weak compared to the end game content. Meanwhile in Arknights having a hard cap makes you feel more powerful because you actually achieved the strongest power of your unit.
To this day, nothing hits like FGO Rainbow rolls. The way Fate fans pull for Gacha is also unparalleled because we use Catalysts (which are canon to lore) That sh*t hits like crack as a f2p even after all these years I’ve played 😂 - Hoyo salt in my experience ain’t even close to the salt in the FGO community over the years.
I tell you, the hit of dopamine I get seeing a Rainbow Ring from an FGO summon - it doesn't even have to be from me - is still incomparable to this day, even after having played other gachas since then
Ah, yes. The days where I specifically prepare catalysts to roll for my wanted Servant. I'd be doing lore research and material preparation. Even preparing summoning scripts translated to the servant's native language to use before summoning. Results? Feels like its working but I got nothing to prove it. xD
I'm so sad other gatchas dont implement F/GO style gatcha rolls. So many neat details like double-face cards, golden, and rainbow rings made rolling just that much more exciting. Ive even gotten good enough at reading the timing between rolls that i can accurately determine between ce's and servants and whether they would be a 3* or a 4/5*.
Played food fantasy and epic seven for a while. The grind and rate up just for materials to level up is so painful like I can't feel any progress at all at times. When I tried Arknights I was so whiplashed that I felt a game was appreciating my effort to grind.
Despite no pity system, Azur Lane only need to gacha ships and you got bulin to act as dupe which are easy to get. Every good/BiS equipment can be obtained by playing the game. Whenever I saw game like HSR needs to gacha for weapon and also needs dupe to upgrade, it stops me.
My first gatcha was FeH back in 2017, quickly followed by FGO and a few others. So when Genshin launched suffice to say it felt like gatcha on easy mode compared to what I was used to XD
glad to see another feh player! people complain things are expensive and power creeped to hell. meanwhile feh, cheap pulls and power creep every 2 weeks lol
IIRC Honkai is as old as FGO (2015) and already had new school mechanics like easier grind and pity, 100 rolls for a guaranteed S Valkyrie (characters ranks from B, A and S), with weapon and stigma being a pain to get, too, since Part 2 pity went down to 90, and rates from weapon/stigma went up, so it's easier to fully kit a character, with Part 2 stigmas now being grindeable once they debut on a banner. Genshin still has some old school mechanics like RNG on ascension mats and artifacts. I remember when I started FGO NA back in september 2017, by the first week I already had 4 SSR to grind, and by february 2018 I had around 10, it took me a whole year to level up all my servants, raids and lotto events are lifesavers, FGA too. At least FGO let's you pass through almost every story chapter with free servants, and has plenty of low budget meta servants
Close 2016, Cn celebrated its 8th anni last month. 8 years ago the most epic thing that happened in gachas is either monkeygate or fgo jp part 1 ending goetia bossfight.
@facepalm50 what's monkeygate? Also the GBF 2015 incident? I know of the game but none of the fandom. Yeah, Goetia was huge, lots of memes came out of it, too. KR server got it rough, tho
@@Abysswea yeah thats how the gbf incident is called, monkey gate. I dont remember the exact number but dude spent 6 to 8k$ to get her. To light up the fire more one of the main team VA's posted she got her first multi so everyone called rigged rates.
@@facepalm50 this reminds me of... Who was it? Finotaizen? One fgo RUclips spent 5K for Merlín on Solomon banner. There's also another guy who lost a similar amount for Staff of Homa for Hu Tao on Genshin. Lots of horror stories.
My favorite gacha game in terms of actual gacha has quickly become Limbus Company. You can basically guarantee getting every rate-up ID every other week (which is when the banner changes) by just doing your weeklies with a little bit of extra grind. In there you also only need one of each copy because there is no limit break mechanic
This is also a subjective opinion but imo I prefer the old school style of grinding over newer ones because while rng equipment wasn’t a new thing from Genshin onwards (Summoners War had it and so did Epic Seven and I’m sure others did) Genshin popularized it. And I hate this stupid system because it means you’re at the complete mercy of rng and can spend a lot of time grinding with no progress. Yeah the old school way can be grindy (although that depends on the game, and typically veterans don’t need to spend much grinding) but at least it had an actual endpoint and it was possible to make your character the best possible version they could be instead of “good enough” because you’re sick of the rng Also I personally find it super tedious to farm in the overworld compared to just selecting a stage and letting auto take the wheel for me while I watch youtube or anime. And skipping/sweeps wasn’t exclusive to newer gachas. Princess Connect and Dragalia Lost both had skip ticket systems in 2018. Love Live School Idol Festival had the ability to run one song and burn like x5 stamina for x5 rewards. Another thing I appreciate for modern gachas is that many have PC ports and you don’t need to emulate them. That’s really nice. And you sorta touched on it, but because characters nowadays are a lot more expensive to develop for instead of printing pngs, characters aren’t outright bad/useless anymore. They can function okay. Sparking also felt like it was becoming more normalized a little ways before Genshin entered the scene. Obviously Granblue was probably the first major player, but even Epic Seven back in 2018 offered 100% guaranteed after x rolls for everything but Moonlight characters iirc.
farming levels for characters manualy in combat was actualy pretty fun back in 2020 azur lane you get to use the characters for once and exp was generous enough
the grindiest gacha game I ever played was another eden, very similar to fgo in how there is a huge backlog of content to get through the key difference is basially every limited time event is permanent, you can't even instantly try and get the strongest free 5 star since they are locked behind very hard boss fights so you actually have to try and grind for the weaker free 5 stars before getting the strong ones.
22:22 why Arknights? i think Ak grind isnt that bad, no multi RNG layer, have auto + multi run. Ak is the easiest grind game for me v:, i love that game (co op mod is fun as hell :)))
The older gachas I played was Langrisser M, then there was two Grand Chase gacha game I've also played along with HI3 and Azur Lane. Some other anime gachas I've forgot to go back to due to boredom. Now the only gacha I play is Arknights, Wuwa, R1999, and HSR. Then some new gacha I try for a month like the recent Jun Maeda one, and Sword of Convalaria.
The only gacha games I can really enjoy are fgo and limbus. The powercreep in these games don't hold back and that's the fun part. In gacha department, limbus doesn't even feel like a gacha game since if you just bought the battle pass, you can just farm for every id in the game during that season. Honestly the amount of characters you can get is just limited by your ability to grind. Fgo is the opposite, it gives you the true gacha experience. I enjoy the story for both games. Limbus is consistent and really peak in some cantos. Fgo feels like a slow burn and really peaked at lb6.
I remember playing Facebook "gacha" games back as a child same as lego games to build my account. Guess i was always going to go down this route eventually Honestly don't care for graphics as long as the gameplay is fire and fun. It's why i like fire emblem so much it's simple(snd not feh it's annoying)
I was (thank god I stopped) a Kantai Collection back in the days, 8 yrs+ ago. The game was grindy as fuck, since almost all new ships you could get in the game was gate locked behind grinding event maps. Not to mention its impossible to make a fleet that could reach the boss node (which usually had the drops you wanted), usually around 75% at best. That game also had a bunch of incredibly convoluted mechanice and not to mention a fucking character death mechanic if you werent careful.
I like how Arknights improved the limited banners even further with the Walter banner where at 300 pulls you're guaranteed the limited operator so if you're extremely unlucky you get the limited operator at 300 pulls then you can use spark currency for an older limited operator like Texas Alter. I hope they do that for standard banners but instead of 300 drop it down to 150 pulls
@@aidilhakimi8425it is for mid to end player u just need to straight save up for 6 month or more 😂 I pull 300 cause my damn skadi alter didn't want to come home yet somehow spec alt keep coming home🤬 now i have pot 4 wadel and skitso nun pot 3. Like i got her again in like prev limited :/
I know you didn't play it at all, but seeing as you've mentioned KanColle, I'm surprised you didn't bring up GBF. As far as I can tell, it is the oldest gacha game still up and was basically thr blueprint of gacha games in general back when Japan still called them Social Games. The Sparking term came from there IIRC. And there's of course the Ancilla incident.
The oldest gacha game thats still up from what I can tell is Puzzles and Dragons which came out in Feb 2012. Battle Cats and Monster Strike (although the latter is only alive in japan but iirc is still doing quite well) are also still going and predate Granblue which is 2014
I would add one more difference would be the Bi monthly reoccurring endgame modes Thant Genshin popularized. And it makes players feel bad when they can’t complete it because it’s basically wasting gems. At the very least FGO doesn’t do that to its players.
Not sure that I would fully agree that old equals harder difficulty and new equals easy. There are a lot of older games where you would literally just auto through the entire story and would either have nothing challenging at all or only a rare boss that might put up a fight or some endgame content outside of the main story (Often for some of these games the only time there was any difficulty to the story would be if there was a hard mode that unlocked after you beat it the first time). For instance, I look at something like Epic 7 and you literally can auto through the whole story outside of the boss of each chapter and even there some of the bosses were easy enough to auto. Fire Emblem Heroes is another one that you can just auto on the main story and only get a challenge on hard story or challenge modes (and that game is a dinosaur at this point.) Meanwhile I look at something like Nikke and there are constant points where you just hit a wall having to wait a few days for enough resources to get ever so slightly stronger to be able to knock something out, or you have the notorious 160 wall that can stop some players story progress for months. I'd also like to point out that while there is a lot of grinding in older gacha, not all of them are FGO where you have to just sit there and manually play everything. A lot of the games either you would leave sitting on auto for hours while you did something else or went to sleep, or you would run a macro to auto farm for you. One other thing that you would see in a lot of older gacha that I feel isn't as common now is a constant introduction of newer rarities as the game progressed so once the new rarirty drops every unit from earlier on almost instantly would become outdated. Gumi (Final Fantasy Brave Exvius/Brave Frontier) were one of the worst offenders of this.
It's a game you enjoy, so you want to keep playing it, and new content keeps releasing for free. Literally no down side. Touhou is just an outlier fan who wants to buy everything imaginable in every game he plays, while he has the money.
Oh yea, whenever I hear about someone complaining about gacha rates today, I just laugh and laugh at how easy they have it. 😂Oh sweet summer child, try playing gacha games before 2017 (particularly FGO)
I'd be intersted in an even more in-depth history of gachas. The gachapon connection, the spark incident, the pvp vs no pvp, the coop vs no coop. There's also the semi-related game Shadowverse. The way you get cards is sort of like in a gacha, but one thing that makes it better is you can sell cards for currency that can directly make other cards. I see this as an inspiration for the "chargeback" you get when rolling characters.
The FGO grind made me stop play the game. You know there is a problem when you get a 5 stars and all you can do is groan...the fact that getting them to just be viable you had to grind so much is insane. Was actually thinking of trying to Nikke and seeing that FGO is really the top in terms of grinding, makes me hopeful the game won't get me to the same point i was in the past.
Gacha stories not being somewhat challenging doesn't vibe with me. Cause, what's the point of getting characters if I can't use them in any meaningful way playing the main games content. Idk, it just doesn't feel fulfilling, but casuals are the main audience so fair enough I guess.
Ah. Yes. The heydays. Gacha Rates werent fully disclosed Pity system was non existent QoL systems(Auto Battle, skip button, Claim All etc) Graphical Improvements start to overheat your Phone Pre-Live 2D Homescreens Grindy as Hell(Farmer/Slavery Memes) Reddits filled about going into Debt /summoning rituals VPN for billing payments or gameplay Bluestack/Android Emulator Gaming From the top of my head. Ahaha.
ayooo Fellow Brave Frontier Player, nice to meet you. i love that game on my early High School but Gumi such a Retard that judging my Acc using 3rd Program party because my Hunter Rank Score was Abnormal, without Prof and told me to admit it. yes they Force me to admit i using 3rd Party Program when back then i didnt even know wwhat was that and need ask my friend what is 3rd party Program. i just quit after that.
Personally I find FGO to be the least grindy if you have an established account and do not roll a ton. One reason why I quit the mihoyo gatchas was that new characters needed new mats and new artifacts that I had none of. FGO I usually had the mats to level a new character to cap and get most skills to or near cap (usually low on QP).
Love Live SIF 2014 was a gacha game with 1% no pity and no packs $$$ you can find stories in the subreddit of players spending 6k dollars and not get the gacha UR :p
Fgo is still the best gacha for me. Almost 0 powercreep, I don't need rng to max build my character, the character mechanic isn't locked under the number of copies you own, no BIS weapon mechanics bullshit but somehow this game is still more complex than any hoyoverse game's battle system. This is why fgo don't really need pity, even the current pity only benefits the whalers.
you can tell the new jjk gacha is actually old school not just because the animation is similar to fgo but because the drop rates and pity system are actual dogshit
I'm surprised you didn't mention the "cost" mechanic in party formation that FGO has which is a interesting mechanic I kinda remember more gachas having that back in the ol days. Anyway I have some unorthodox background in gacha games, my first one I really played was Terra Battle which was a very interesting game with it's weird kind of pity that basically mean you could grind your way to remove some character out of the pool and leaving only the higher rarity characters, but on otherhand it was extremely stingy with it's pull resources. I also played FEH which might be what put me on the gacha mindset, with gacha mindset I put myself into GBF which was horrendous and I really wish my time spent on GBF back, with the whole guild wars kind of event which I played not for myself, but for a guild, I also played PriConne which I dropped for similar reasons, I get it that point of Gacha other name, Soshages, are meant to be the Social games so interacting with other people is needed, but I decided that after dropping those game I will only play gachas that are as single player as possible and the community aspect is more about discussing the mechanics, clears and helping others players than things like PvP. Than after seeing spoilers about FGO Lostbelts and a friend talking about it's mechanics, I got really FGO, I still play to this day and I really appreciate it's structure, but the early game is really rough, but the lack of auto battle makes me more attached to it. I also play Another Eden and it's clone Octopath CotC, Another Eden is really interesting because while it doesn't have a pity system, it doesn't have any sort of limited content nor limited gacha characters and is structured more akin to a normal JRPG than other gachas, Octopath CotC feels the same as Another Eden, but it has limited events and characters and also has a spark system, but has less freebie characters and is a little bit harder. Since I don't like BotW open world games I skipped on genshin and HSR was my first Hoyo style gacha game with the hype of a Trails lite game and it's alright, I do hate a little bit the relic system, it really reminds of when I played the demo of Nioh and my inventory was full and I have trouble managing it because every equipment is different enough that makes annoying to manually filter what to delete. At last WizDaphne and Heaven Burns Red Global got released recently and I really interested in playing those, WizDaphne has some really interesting old school mechanics and even has some sort of permadeath, but it feels like a good dungeon crawler, HBR on other hand from first impression has best sort of auto I've seen in a gacha game.
Having played FGO I get a massive migraine every time someone constructs a hyperbolic argument that Genshin and Star Rail are so greedy and terrible with their gacha economy with the big scary $200 number. These kids are so spoiled they don't even know.
In my opinion new gacha have evolve in graphics and waifu bait but have regress in content delivery, it still puzzles my mind how and old school can have multiplayer raid boss fights but the titan hoyoverse can't have it in their games.
Tragically, Heaven Burns Red seems to have old school gacha system. Lots of content and most importantly story if you're willing to put up with mediocre RPG mechanics though
Inventory limits are truly one of the worst things in gacha. It was horrible in the old gachas since they would constantly make the game literally unplayable and become a micromanaging simulator where you have to look into each damn character or gear and see like 10 of the same gear with different stats worth keeping, and they're still awful in genshin and star rail for artifacts. One modern gacha that still has the old inventory style is Counterside, and to no one's surprise it's still not fun to be prevented from playing the game.
I think it’s worth highlighting the introduction of a weapon banner at all. Speaking as someone who has stuck with FGO, the idea seems really ridiculous and greedy. Though, it sounds like some banners are better than others. Would love to see a follow up where you talk about stuff like costumes; multiple types of transactions (Nikke does all of them); when gachas decided to drop stamina bars; the style and presentation (2D, mixed 2D/3D, and 3D). Any noticeable difference between gachas with PvP or pure PoE in terms of design or content. 😮 I remember an old school gacha game, Brave Frontier, had a stamina system. One tick every 5 minutes-the standard. One time they decided to temporarily reduce the timer to once every 3 minutes. Which the players wanted to keep so much it ended up being permanent. Would also love a deeper breakdown on how gachas evolved dupes to affect a character’s power progression and the game balance. In FGO, one copy gives you 100% of the character’s kit. And dupes have decreasing values in upgrading the ult. Which often swaps to overkill range due to break bad mechanics. Meanwhile, new school games add new features to dupes. And this puts a huge difference between limited and permanent units. So how do new school gacha games design content? Do they assume limited units don’t have dupes? How big is the change in power from E0 to E5? Is it also decreasing returns?
3A games made money by having a breakthrough, Gacha games made more by producing mediocre slop that just satisfies your gambling desire. Genshin was a breakthrough but then it fell back into the cycle of mediocre slop and that’s just depressing to know.
I feel that the next iteration of gacha is near, and this is when developers view gacha as a monetization model rather than a genre. We will start seeing games that could have been a buy-to-play game, but the developers chose gacha as a monetization (in fact I think all of the Hoyo games could stand alone as a console / PC buy-to-play game).
![SKYBLIVION Live Development Stream[LIKING THE STREAM IS APPRECIATED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4G7GiqRRokk/mqdefault.jpg)
Remember everyone. Gacha games are a marathon. Pace yourself. Don't watch other people roll to make yourself fomo. Save for a unit you really want when you know ahead of time. Learn the systems and most importantly have fun. Quit when the game is work not play.
(Says a guy who f2p his way to getting 4 np5 ssr units in fgo and c6 raiden shogun in genshin impact)
Calling it marathon is implying that there will be a finish line. there wont be :D
@@rpamungkas13 there is, for fgo at least. The ending is already written.
Tell that to Gran Blue Player man. they addicted to it
The 2015 GBF incident really changed gacha games too.
The thing that sparked it all
lmao i was there
its called monkeygate incident for whoever curious about it
One thing also older gacha games have is that no matter how strong an unit is very rare for a single unit to carry you, FGO have Heracles but that requires bond CE which is not realistic for a new player, compared to Arknights and the Wisadel problem is kinda funny see how some games deal with the difficulty
I was there 3000 year ago,I was there when FGO didnt have the back button so if you forgot to use a skill you done fucked up.
Strat was to exit app to see the crit stars and where they went.
Kids these days have it good. They're learning about multicore farming, when back then we had Arash with MLB Imaginary Around, double Waver, and our AoE NP choice with KScope.
And ngl, starting JP a few months back made me feel nostalgic about those kinds of comps lol
@@ivanbluecool This when the game didn't crash. While FGO still is a unstable mess, in the beginning it was barely playable.
But back button destroyed quit-scumming tho, back then you can just quit the game and start it again to manipulate the RNG lol
OOOh man i remember. You had to be absolutely sure you wanted to attack. It was so bad.
Either way my devices lose from all the data being drained
The Problem with Nikke spark is you need to MLB them with dupes especially the collab units that might not appear in the shop ever again while BA, you only need one copy and are just time gated to fully max them. So no, Nikke gacha isn't superior. It's just an illusion and inferior. 😅
Doesn't help the fact their level csp is outrageous. I'm level 450ish for my units and I still feel weak compared to the end game content. Meanwhile in Arknights having a hard cap makes you feel more powerful because you actually achieved the strongest power of your unit.
To this day, nothing hits like FGO Rainbow rolls. The way Fate fans pull for Gacha is also unparalleled because we use Catalysts (which are canon to lore) That sh*t hits like crack as a f2p even after all these years I’ve played 😂
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Hoyo salt in my experience ain’t even close to the salt in the FGO community over the years.
I tell you, the hit of dopamine I get seeing a Rainbow Ring from an FGO summon - it doesn't even have to be from me - is still incomparable to this day, even after having played other gachas since then
Ah, yes. The days where I specifically prepare catalysts to roll for my wanted Servant. I'd be doing lore research and material preparation. Even preparing summoning scripts translated to the servant's native language to use before summoning.
Results? Feels like its working but I got nothing to prove it. xD
I'm so sad other gatchas dont implement F/GO style gatcha rolls. So many neat details like double-face cards, golden, and rainbow rings made rolling just that much more exciting. Ive even gotten good enough at reading the timing between rolls that i can accurately determine between ce's and servants and whether they would be a 3* or a 4/5*.
Played food fantasy and epic seven for a while. The grind and rate up just for materials to level up is so painful like I can't feel any progress at all at times. When I tried Arknights I was so whiplashed that I felt a game was appreciating my effort to grind.
Despite no pity system, Azur Lane only need to gacha ships and you got bulin to act as dupe which are easy to get. Every good/BiS equipment can be obtained by playing the game. Whenever I saw game like HSR needs to gacha for weapon and also needs dupe to upgrade, it stops me.
After the hours I spent grinding in fgo starting in 2018, farming in Limbus Company is literally day and night, god I love that system
I’m genuinely surprised I’ve been in the gacha space longer than you bro.
My first gatcha was FeH back in 2017, quickly followed by FGO and a few others. So when Genshin launched suffice to say it felt like gatcha on easy mode compared to what I was used to XD
glad to see another feh player! people complain things are expensive and power creeped to hell. meanwhile feh, cheap pulls and power creep every 2 weeks lol
IIRC Honkai is as old as FGO (2015) and already had new school mechanics like easier grind and pity, 100 rolls for a guaranteed S Valkyrie (characters ranks from B, A and S), with weapon and stigma being a pain to get, too, since Part 2 pity went down to 90, and rates from weapon/stigma went up, so it's easier to fully kit a character, with Part 2 stigmas now being grindeable once they debut on a banner.
Genshin still has some old school mechanics like RNG on ascension mats and artifacts.
I remember when I started FGO NA back in september 2017, by the first week I already had 4 SSR to grind, and by february 2018 I had around 10, it took me a whole year to level up all my servants, raids and lotto events are lifesavers, FGA too. At least FGO let's you pass through almost every story chapter with free servants, and has plenty of low budget meta servants
Close 2016, Cn celebrated its 8th anni last month.
8 years ago the most epic thing that happened in gachas is either monkeygate or fgo jp part 1 ending goetia bossfight.
@facepalm50 what's monkeygate? Also the GBF 2015 incident? I know of the game but none of the fandom.
Yeah, Goetia was huge, lots of memes came out of it, too. KR server got it rough, tho
@@Abysswea yeah thats how the gbf incident is called, monkey gate.
I dont remember the exact number but dude spent 6 to 8k$ to get her.
To light up the fire more one of the main team VA's posted she got her first multi so everyone called rigged rates.
@@facepalm50 this reminds me of... Who was it? Finotaizen? One fgo RUclips spent 5K for Merlín on Solomon banner. There's also another guy who lost a similar amount for Staff of Homa for Hu Tao on Genshin.
Lots of horror stories.
My favorite gacha game in terms of actual gacha has quickly become Limbus Company. You can basically guarantee getting every rate-up ID every other week (which is when the banner changes) by just doing your weeklies with a little bit of extra grind.
In there you also only need one of each copy because there is no limit break mechanic
Limbus Company gang
Oh fellow limbus enjoyer.
This is also a subjective opinion but imo I prefer the old school style of grinding over newer ones because while rng equipment wasn’t a new thing from Genshin onwards (Summoners War had it and so did Epic Seven and I’m sure others did) Genshin popularized it. And I hate this stupid system because it means you’re at the complete mercy of rng and can spend a lot of time grinding with no progress.
Yeah the old school way can be grindy (although that depends on the game, and typically veterans don’t need to spend much grinding) but at least it had an actual endpoint and it was possible to make your character the best possible version they could be instead of “good enough” because you’re sick of the rng
Also I personally find it super tedious to farm in the overworld compared to just selecting a stage and letting auto take the wheel for me while I watch youtube or anime.
And skipping/sweeps wasn’t exclusive to newer gachas. Princess Connect and Dragalia Lost both had skip ticket systems in 2018. Love Live School Idol Festival had the ability to run one song and burn like x5 stamina for x5 rewards.
Another thing I appreciate for modern gachas is that many have PC ports and you don’t need to emulate them. That’s really nice.
And you sorta touched on it, but because characters nowadays are a lot more expensive to develop for instead of printing pngs, characters aren’t outright bad/useless anymore. They can function okay.
Sparking also felt like it was becoming more normalized a little ways before Genshin entered the scene. Obviously Granblue was probably the first major player, but even Epic Seven back in 2018 offered 100% guaranteed after x rolls for everything but Moonlight characters iirc.
farming levels for characters manualy in combat was actualy pretty fun back in 2020 azur lane you get to use the characters for once and exp was generous enough
thanks 2hu, good video
i bought apple pie and haagan dazs ice cream to pull
Blood Brothers RPG was a wild gacha for its time
the grindiest gacha game I ever played was another eden, very similar to fgo in how there is a huge backlog of content to get through the key difference is basially every limited time event is permanent, you can't even instantly try and get the strongest free 5 star since they are locked behind very hard boss fights so you actually have to try and grind for the weaker free 5 stars before getting the strong ones.
Immediate click. Always love these scripted videos! Gotta love that sweet sweet content
Used to play Love Live SIF back in the day, so long ago I don't even remember how the gacha worked there lmao
22:22 why Arknights? i think Ak grind isnt that bad, no multi RNG layer, have auto + multi run. Ak is the easiest grind game for me v:, i love that game (co op mod is fun as hell :)))
The older gachas I played was Langrisser M, then there was two Grand Chase gacha game I've also played along with HI3 and Azur Lane. Some other anime gachas I've forgot to go back to due to boredom. Now the only gacha I play is Arknights, Wuwa, R1999, and HSR. Then some new gacha I try for a month like the recent Jun Maeda one, and Sword of Convalaria.
The reason im still in fgo hell gacha is i heard the story almost complete and it'd be a waste to quit now
*HELP*
i played more and older gacha games than you do. but i like most of your takes than these wannabe gacha players.
The only gacha games I can really enjoy are fgo and limbus. The powercreep in these games don't hold back and that's the fun part. In gacha department, limbus doesn't even feel like a gacha game since if you just bought the battle pass, you can just farm for every id in the game during that season. Honestly the amount of characters you can get is just limited by your ability to grind. Fgo is the opposite, it gives you the true gacha experience. I enjoy the story for both games. Limbus is consistent and really peak in some cantos. Fgo feels like a slow burn and really peaked at lb6.
With the amount of gacha games you keep up with I wonder how many tablets/phones you own just to play a specific game.
He emulates them all now on his PC, at the same time.
I remember playing Facebook "gacha" games back as a child same as lego games to build my account. Guess i was always going to go down this route eventually
Honestly don't care for graphics as long as the gameplay is fire and fun. It's why i like fire emblem so much it's simple(snd not feh it's annoying)
I was (thank god I stopped) a Kantai Collection back in the days, 8 yrs+ ago. The game was grindy as fuck, since almost all new ships you could get in the game was gate locked behind grinding event maps. Not to mention its impossible to make a fleet that could reach the boss node (which usually had the drops you wanted), usually around 75% at best.
That game also had a bunch of incredibly convoluted mechanice and not to mention a fucking character death mechanic if you werent careful.
The gacha god back at it again, as an fgo player for 6 years I know hell
The challenging boss fights is what keeps me coming back and the cannon event story
I like how Arknights improved the limited banners even further with the Walter banner where at 300 pulls you're guaranteed the limited operator so if you're extremely unlucky you get the limited operator at 300 pulls then you can use spark currency for an older limited operator like Texas Alter. I hope they do that for standard banners but instead of 300 drop it down to 150 pulls
300 pity is not f2p pity friendly thou..😢
Then you are playing wrong LMAO. how is that even possible
@@aidilhakimi8425it is for mid to end player u just need to straight save up for 6 month or more 😂
I pull 300 cause my damn skadi alter didn't want to come home yet somehow spec alt keep coming home🤬
now i have pot 4 wadel and skitso nun pot 3. Like i got her again in like prev limited :/
22:42 is a good reminder of 2hu being the God of Gacha, but I like this vid is the main point.
gfl1 was goat of old school gacha that upgaded kancolle formula, it's so nice that gfl2 is coming soon to global for newer players to try
old gacha game that i still play...
KamihimeProject and Flower Knight Girl
at dmm of course
For the algorithm bro
I know you didn't play it at all, but seeing as you've mentioned KanColle, I'm surprised you didn't bring up GBF. As far as I can tell, it is the oldest gacha game still up and was basically thr blueprint of gacha games in general back when Japan still called them Social Games. The Sparking term came from there IIRC. And there's of course the Ancilla incident.
The oldest gacha game thats still up from what I can tell is Puzzles and Dragons which came out in Feb 2012. Battle Cats and Monster Strike (although the latter is only alive in japan but iirc is still doing quite well) are also still going and predate Granblue which is 2014
Honestly, I kinda want Touhou play Limbus Company at some point.
he has sub goal atm and you could donate him to play it as part of his streaming daily atm
I would add one more difference would be the Bi monthly reoccurring endgame modes Thant Genshin popularized.
And it makes players feel bad when they can’t complete it because it’s basically wasting gems. At the very least FGO doesn’t do that to its players.
Me being an ancient gacha player, having played Brave Frontier and Chain Chronicles, and watching Ushi Gaming Channel reviewing units.
Not sure that I would fully agree that old equals harder difficulty and new equals easy. There are a lot of older games where you would literally just auto through the entire story and would either have nothing challenging at all or only a rare boss that might put up a fight or some endgame content outside of the main story (Often for some of these games the only time there was any difficulty to the story would be if there was a hard mode that unlocked after you beat it the first time). For instance, I look at something like Epic 7 and you literally can auto through the whole story outside of the boss of each chapter and even there some of the bosses were easy enough to auto. Fire Emblem Heroes is another one that you can just auto on the main story and only get a challenge on hard story or challenge modes (and that game is a dinosaur at this point.) Meanwhile I look at something like Nikke and there are constant points where you just hit a wall having to wait a few days for enough resources to get ever so slightly stronger to be able to knock something out, or you have the notorious 160 wall that can stop some players story progress for months.
I'd also like to point out that while there is a lot of grinding in older gacha, not all of them are FGO where you have to just sit there and manually play everything. A lot of the games either you would leave sitting on auto for hours while you did something else or went to sleep, or you would run a macro to auto farm for you.
One other thing that you would see in a lot of older gacha that I feel isn't as common now is a constant introduction of newer rarities as the game progressed so once the new rarirty drops every unit from earlier on almost instantly would become outdated. Gumi (Final Fantasy Brave Exvius/Brave Frontier) were one of the worst offenders of this.
As bad as gacha games were pre-pity system, at least we don't have to win a lottery just to register an account. Ye olde KanColle was wild.
Would love to hear why you prefer playing gacha games over AAA games.
It's a game you enjoy, so you want to keep playing it, and new content keeps releasing for free. Literally no down side. Touhou is just an outlier fan who wants to buy everything imaginable in every game he plays, while he has the money.
Been liking the schizorants lately. Keep it up bro.
i dont use benny anymore for abyss so its okay, he can go rest
Oh yea, whenever I hear about someone complaining about gacha rates today, I just laugh and laugh at how easy they have it. 😂Oh sweet summer child, try playing gacha games before 2017 (particularly FGO)
FGO, MS, GFL and GBF were days for me
(also RIP dragalia lost )
thing I hate in new gacha is the full kit of the character is behind dupes...old gacha is just bigger number
Man that FGO grind *laughs in lotto*
So glad I have summer Ibuki this time around.
Anyone here played Brave Frontier and earlier gachas?
Lack of pity made me quit FGO i saved up for the first three Jalter banners IIRC it was 3800 SQ all together and i never got her.
I'd be intersted in an even more in-depth history of gachas. The gachapon connection, the spark incident, the pvp vs no pvp, the coop vs no coop.
There's also the semi-related game Shadowverse. The way you get cards is sort of like in a gacha, but one thing that makes it better is you can sell cards for currency that can directly make other cards. I see this as an inspiration for the "chargeback" you get when rolling characters.
The FGO grind made me stop play the game. You know there is a problem when you get a 5 stars and all you can do is groan...the fact that getting them to just be viable you had to grind so much is insane. Was actually thinking of trying to Nikke and seeing that FGO is really the top in terms of grinding, makes me hopeful the game won't get me to the same point i was in the past.
this was a rly interesting little history lession. my first gacha was arknights :) i am glad gachas have become friendlier xD
Gacha stories not being somewhat challenging doesn't vibe with me. Cause, what's the point of getting characters if I can't use them in any meaningful way playing the main games content. Idk, it just doesn't feel fulfilling, but casuals are the main audience so fair enough I guess.
To be fair to GFL
Construction is free, it just requires your blood sweat and tears
Now Sangvis Ferri units though
Ah. Yes. The heydays.
Gacha Rates werent fully disclosed
Pity system was non existent
QoL systems(Auto Battle, skip button, Claim All etc)
Graphical Improvements start to overheat your Phone
Pre-Live 2D Homescreens
Grindy as Hell(Farmer/Slavery Memes)
Reddits filled about going into Debt /summoning rituals
VPN for billing payments or gameplay
Bluestack/Android Emulator Gaming
From the top of my head. Ahaha.
Rage of Bahamut and Brave Frontier anyone?
ayooo Fellow Brave Frontier Player, nice to meet you. i love that game on my early High School but Gumi such a Retard that judging my Acc using 3rd Program party because my Hunter Rank Score was Abnormal, without Prof and told me to admit it. yes they Force me to admit i using 3rd Party Program when back then i didnt even know wwhat was that and need ask my friend what is 3rd party Program. i just quit after that.
also good luck to new players get account checked by space spider in lostbelt 7
Personally I find FGO to be the least grindy if you have an established account and do not roll a ton. One reason why I quit the mihoyo gatchas was that new characters needed new mats and new artifacts that I had none of. FGO I usually had the mats to level a new character to cap and get most skills to or near cap (usually low on QP).
Heavy construction? Mutsu ni naru~
I think, his PC/devices is the Real MVP here.
Love Live SIF 2014 was a gacha game with 1% no pity and no packs $$$
you can find stories in the subreddit of players spending 6k dollars and not get the gacha UR :p
Fgo is still the best gacha for me. Almost 0 powercreep, I don't need rng to max build my character, the character mechanic isn't locked under the number of copies you own, no BIS weapon mechanics bullshit but somehow this game is still more complex than any hoyoverse game's battle system.
This is why fgo don't really need pity, even the current pity only benefits the whalers.
🧢
What would make a new game come out as a "third wave" gacha game?
Maybe GTA 6 if it added gatcha mechanics instead of loot boxes or premium store items
you can tell the new jjk gacha is actually old school not just because the animation is similar to fgo but because the drop rates and pity system are actual dogshit
Bro people be like genshin has bad pity but imagine if they didn’t have pity 💀 also I still hate the pity system
For a gachagod im suprised he didnt play GBF
I'm surprised you didn't mention the "cost" mechanic in party formation that FGO has which is a interesting mechanic I kinda remember more gachas having that back in the ol days.
Anyway I have some unorthodox background in gacha games, my first one I really played was Terra Battle which was a very interesting game with it's weird kind of pity that basically mean you could grind your way to remove some character out of the pool and leaving only the higher rarity characters, but on otherhand it was extremely stingy with it's pull resources.
I also played FEH which might be what put me on the gacha mindset, with gacha mindset I put myself into GBF which was horrendous and I really wish my time spent on GBF back, with the whole guild wars kind of event which I played not for myself, but for a guild, I also played PriConne which I dropped for similar reasons, I get it that point of Gacha other name, Soshages, are meant to be the Social games so interacting with other people is needed, but I decided that after dropping those game I will only play gachas that are as single player as possible and the community aspect is more about discussing the mechanics, clears and helping others players than things like PvP.
Than after seeing spoilers about FGO Lostbelts and a friend talking about it's mechanics, I got really FGO, I still play to this day and I really appreciate it's structure, but the early game is really rough, but the lack of auto battle makes me more attached to it.
I also play Another Eden and it's clone Octopath CotC, Another Eden is really interesting because while it doesn't have a pity system, it doesn't have any sort of limited content nor limited gacha characters and is structured more akin to a normal JRPG than other gachas, Octopath CotC feels the same as Another Eden, but it has limited events and characters and also has a spark system, but has less freebie characters and is a little bit harder.
Since I don't like BotW open world games I skipped on genshin and HSR was my first Hoyo style gacha game with the hype of a Trails lite game and it's alright, I do hate a little bit the relic system, it really reminds of when I played the demo of Nioh and my inventory was full and I have trouble managing it because every equipment is different enough that makes annoying to manually filter what to delete.
At last WizDaphne and Heaven Burns Red Global got released recently and I really interested in playing those, WizDaphne has some really interesting old school mechanics and even has some sort of permadeath, but it feels like a good dungeon crawler, HBR on other hand from first impression has best sort of auto I've seen in a gacha game.
Having played FGO I get a massive migraine every time someone constructs a hyperbolic argument that Genshin and Star Rail are so greedy and terrible with their gacha economy with the big scary $200 number. These kids are so spoiled they don't even know.
Genshin,WuWa and HSR players will never understand the pain of Nerofest UCQs
In my opinion new gacha have evolve in graphics and waifu bait but have regress in content delivery, it still puzzles my mind how and old school can have multiplayer raid boss fights but the titan hoyoverse can't have it in their games.
Tragically, Heaven Burns Red seems to have old school gacha system. Lots of content and most importantly story if you're willing to put up with mediocre RPG mechanics though
Inventory limits are truly one of the worst things in gacha. It was horrible in the old gachas since they would constantly make the game literally unplayable and become a micromanaging simulator where you have to look into each damn character or gear and see like 10 of the same gear with different stats worth keeping, and they're still awful in genshin and star rail for artifacts. One modern gacha that still has the old inventory style is Counterside, and to no one's surprise it's still not fun to be prevented from playing the game.
I think it’s worth highlighting the introduction of a weapon banner at all. Speaking as someone who has stuck with FGO, the idea seems really ridiculous and greedy. Though, it sounds like some banners are better than others.
Would love to see a follow up where you talk about stuff like costumes; multiple types of transactions (Nikke does all of them); when gachas decided to drop stamina bars; the style and presentation (2D, mixed 2D/3D, and 3D). Any noticeable difference between gachas with PvP or pure PoE in terms of design or content. 😮
I remember an old school gacha game, Brave Frontier, had a stamina system. One tick every 5 minutes-the standard. One time they decided to temporarily reduce the timer to once every 3 minutes. Which the players wanted to keep so much it ended up being permanent.
Would also love a deeper breakdown on how gachas evolved dupes to affect a character’s power progression and the game balance. In FGO, one copy gives you 100% of the character’s kit. And dupes have decreasing values in upgrading the ult. Which often swaps to overkill range due to break bad mechanics. Meanwhile, new school games add new features to dupes. And this puts a huge difference between limited and permanent units. So how do new school gacha games design content? Do they assume limited units don’t have dupes? How big is the change in power from E0 to E5? Is it also decreasing returns?
ain't nothing a grind nowadays once you fought for top 2000 crew ranking spot in GBF
You act like you’re an OG gacha player but your first gacha was FGO NA?
3A games made money by having a breakthrough, Gacha games made more by producing mediocre slop that just satisfies your gambling desire. Genshin was a breakthrough but then it fell back into the cycle of mediocre slop and that’s just depressing to know.
I feel that the next iteration of gacha is near, and this is when developers view gacha as a monetization model rather than a genre. We will start seeing games that could have been a buy-to-play game, but the developers chose gacha as a monetization (in fact I think all of the Hoyo games could stand alone as a console / PC buy-to-play game).
nikke truly breaking the mold by introducing the worst story progression system to ever be seen in the year 2022
Have you played modern war ships. Only gatcha iv played.