Too bad too; aesthetically, it’s leaps and bounds better than other dungeons. It’s basically the Dark Souls II of dungeons, in that it thinks “challenge” means annoying the hell out of the player.
That "block transfer" puzzle feels like something that would have perfectly worked in a dungeon centered around the Cane of Somaria. The puzzle would be at the start of the dungeon, you'd do it the long way, then after you get the cane you have an easy shortcut. But instead it's at the end of an already long, linear dungeon. That is why I usually do Misery Mire before the Ice Palace.
@@CaptBurgerson I remember as a child I could never do this puzzle "properly", even with the NP Guide. After several failed loops, I looked ahead in the guide and realized that the Cane would let me bypass the entire issue. Now I just get the Cane first and save myself the trouble.
It would be really much more logic if the giant chest would have contained the Cane of Somaria, especially since it's not really used to it's potencial in Misery Mire. The only justification is the Turtle Rock requiring the Cane of Somoria and the develops want to get sure, that you free Zelda last.
So, when I first played this game as a kid that final block puzzle stumped me. I had no concept of 3D space being used that way and never thought about what was above the room with the switch. Instead, I backed out, did misery mire, and realized the cane made that puzzle trivial. I then assumed that the order was always meant to be Thieves Town>Mire>Ice and the numbers were a localization mistake.
my problem with kholdstare is that it's dependent on you having enough magic juice to break the ice with your fire rod. I ended up going in without enough and no way to regain it, so i had to accept my fate and let the boss kill me. Which meant I had to leave the dungeon to go get enough magic to kill the first ice dude, then going through this gauntlet again.
I'm not sure about the first form; in the GBA version once you've broken the barrier and you're out of magic, the falling ice blocks will occasionally drop some. I'm guessing that's an improvement on the SNES version though.
The Ice Palace is also my least favorite in ALttP, precisely because I had to do these "victory laps" twice, because I pushed the wrong block because I didn't remember that the button is in the lower left of this 4 square hole... You encapsulated perfectly why I am not fond of that dungeon. I wouldn't say it's bad, but I am not a fan.
I realized that a handful of the Ice Palace rooms look like a frozen over version of Zelda 1 dungeon rooms, with the square tile floors, brick walls, and doors placed center of each wall. The Fire Bars present in the dungeon even call back to the fact that said hazard was initially designed for Zelda 1 before they decided to use it for SMB instead. The Bubbles and Zols that inhabit it are also Zelda 1 foes brought back, with the latter coming after a hiatus in Zelda 2 where similar foes took their place (Bits and Bots), with Medusas being very similar to the Statues of Zelda 1, not ceasing their fireball onslaught, even after the room is cleared.
this dungeon really grew on me and what is cool is how you can tackle it without the hookshot but you will need to warp back to the entrance, however one big nitpick i have is how the shutter door is needlessly placed here. kholdstare needing magic was another problem but this was fixed in the gba port. you can also get through the dungeon with bombos medallion. the ice physics are not not the best, but they are not that bad.
Nintendo knew this, too. A Link To The Past on SNES came with a small 1" x 3" black paper book (in addition to the instruction manual). It was sealed with a sticker and described solutions to some of the challenging puzzles in the game or where certain items can be found. I used it for this dungeon.
one of the frustrating weaknesses of Link to the past and link between worlds dark world dungeons having a not rigid dungeon order is that it cant account for the items you need. i appreciate having freedom in a game where you can technically do any dungeon once you get the Hammer. really, the only reason you MIGHT want to do LTTPs dungeons in the order the game gives you is for the story. in link between worlds, it at least lets you buy the items you need to do the dungeons in order (you can buy and own all of them if you want) but in LTTP, each dungeon can REALLY only account for the item you get in its dungeon. ie, in OOT, the fire temple can account for the bow, hookshot and the megaton hammer, the water temple can account for the bow, megaton hammer, longshot, the spirit temple can account for all your items. in wind waker, the forbidden woods can account for the grappling hook, the deku leaf, and boomerang, the tower of the gods can account for bombs, the bow, the boomerang, the grappling hook. but thats what i like about BOTWs divine beasts and the game giving you the slate. the world and the divine beasts give you the freedom to do whatever you want while you can start with any of them but the characters and world still can lead you to what should be the first/easiest dungeon, still leaving it up to you. all in all, while i appreciate LTTP/LBWs freedom with the dungeon order, i just personally feel like if the order was ALITTLE more rigid, it couldve made more interesting puzzles in its dungeons to let you get the most out of more of you inventory. in the end, we do have to remember that link to the past is only the third game of a 40 year old series, its only natural they couldnt account for everything given what the had to work with at the time. but yeah, wouldve been more painless playing through the annoying dungeons like the ice palace and couldve made more creative puzzles if they were able to incorporate more item usage into LTTPs dungeons.
I've played this game so many times and still I always push the wrong block down the hole. But thanks to the comment section I now know that the Cane of Somaria is helping a lot here. Never thought about it before, I always finished the dungeons in order. 😅
I was not a fan of this one either for largely the reasons you laid out here. I dislike how you can run out of magic and get stuck against the ice enemies. When I was younger, I ended up doing Level 6 first to get the Red Cane that can create blocks, just to make the final block puzzle in here less of a issue. Though when you break it down in here, it doesn't seem like that big of a issue. Good video as always, thanks Burgerson!
I've conceptualized this dungeon as two areas. First a gauntlet of danger to wear you down if and when you have the misfortune of dying deeper in the dungeon. Eventually it branches into a maze of one-way paths, so wrong turns are punishing. Some of these paths are essentially traps which force you back to the gauntlet, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 rupees. The result is wandering in circles while slowly getting worn down. I'm really glad I beat Kholdstare first try as a kid (bombos medallion makes quick work of the first phase), because I don't know the next time I would have reached the boss room again.
I definitely agree that the dungeon item should have been something that helped with puzzles. One of the things I loved about Zelda dungeons is using the item to solve unique puzzles especially when you get it later on to solve puzzles you couldn't before and get to new areas, I always felt a sense of progress when I was able to do that.
I feel like the whole compass and map locations are there to just build up a certain level of uncertainty. I remember my first run of the dungeon on NSO I scrolled down and down to see the boss 7 floors down. I never seen a dungeon seven floors down… I thought. In the dungeon I delved, I died a lot and I enjoyed it. The map placement feels more like an objective being completed, and showing you ‘now look the boss is right there GO!’ How close the boss is.
As a kid I got stuck at basement 6 left went to Misery Mire got the Cane went back to the Ice Palace and used the Cane to make a block to press the switch to beat the dungeon.
I remember coming into this dungeon with the Cane of Somaria to nullify the infamous block puzzle. Which is weird, because even as a kid, I was always pedantic about doing things in order.
I found this dungeon difficult but liked playing it. It was fun to experiment and find out what to do. I grew up with games like Link‘s Awakening and Mystic Quest for Game Boy (aka Seiken Densetsu / Final Fantasy Adventures) and having to explore, try out and remember or take notes of things I have not yet the answer to is normal to me. It might be more fun to have a bit more guidance and fail proof design choices, but on the other hand, having to find out stuff and to experiment and having to walk around more than once does not bother me much because it feels kind of more realistic, less fabricated.
I literally walk around in circles EVERYTIME i play that level. then remember to drop down into the big chest room to push the block into the hole. ugh
I don’t really dislike this one after replaying it. Just when it would have gotten annoying to me, it ended. I didn’t mind this block puzzle, because at first the only blocks you can push are wrong ones, and you immediately realize that you need to push one of the other ones
I only have to disagree slightly with the take on the boss. As a kid back in 1992, I struggled with most of the bosses including this one. And this one may not have the worst attacks and patterns, but what it does do is hit like an absolute truck. The damage done by contact with the eyeballs is really crazy, and the amount of lag in that boss fight makes your controls feel muddy at best. If you get pinned between the eyes you're just toast, especially if you managed to get there without finding the Blue Mail first like I'm pretty sure I did the first time. It felt brutal and I always used up all my potions trying to survive in the dungeon itself. Now these days with experience it doesn't seem nearly as bad of course - though, try having it be the first boss you need to fight with 3 hearts in a randomizer and that feeling comes back suddenly.
Oooh this was an interesting take to watch. I always had fond memories of the ice palace (probably cuz of the intrigue of a vertical dungeon in an old Zelda game), but looking at it critically, I 100% agree with most of your complaints and grievances here. ESPECIALLY the block puzzle which… I didn’t even realise was a puzzle cuz I just happened to have the cane of somaria before entering this place.
I have been playing this game since I was 12. I am 44 now. I don't think I actually know how to solve that puzzle without just doing Misery Mire first still lol
Man I always love Ice themed dungeons. I love the look of this dungeon, too bad about the missed potential here. The map and compass should definitely have been swapped!
Yeah, this is definitely my least favorite dungeon in the game, but I don’t necessarily hate it. It just kind’ve feels thrown together, like they designed it last and just ran out of ideas. Loving this series btw! I’ve watched them all but I’m just now getting caught up on the ALTTP dungeons.
Hot take - the compass in ALttP is a useless item. It only shows the boss location, but with one exception (Thieves Town) the location is always as deep into the dungeon as possible. If you see a 7 floor dungeon, you just assume the boss is on that 7th floor. And with a map it's pretty easy to see which rooms you haven't been to (and without one, having a vague boss location doesn't actually help guide your immediate direction). Link's Awakening fixes this by giving it the sound effect for secrets; until then, I would have rather replaced all the compass chests with 20 rupees or something
10:14 I don’t know if you did it on purpose because of the timing of what you were saying but that room in the desert also is totally Pointless, you defeat all the enemies only for it to reopen the door to get out again and nothing else. Although I kinda like the concept of things not always being rewarding, personally. Keeps things less predictable and toys with you a bit.
You're right, it was pretty useless even for a first playthrough. I would get especially annoyed when I expected the chest to have a small key or something I needed to progress and it turned out to just be a compass.
As a kid, the block puzzle was difficult. If you actually explore the dungeon, it’s braindead easy to solve. I’m not a big fan of the double loop, but this was Nintendo’s second real attempt at a proper “theme” for a dungeon, after the swamp palace. I personally think the dungeon is fantastic. Yes, the moving the block to access a door and having to move it again is fundamentally flawed in this game, but it was the first time they tried it. They made it better later on in future games. 🤷🏻♂️
If ALttP had to number the dungeons, they really, really, REALLY should have swapped Misery Mire to 5 and Ice Palace to 6, because heck this dungeon, seriously. On repeat plays you know to go get Cane of Somaria first, but on most people's first playthrough they're going to go with what the game itself recommends right there on the map, and that is a cursed mistake in this case.
I had the same thought because i have no big picture of how the dungeon looks like. But when i played it several times and i knew the dungeon by heart, i knew how great of dungeon and a master piece it is. This is my opinion at least.
Overly lengthy, confuse, tons of enemies on slippery floors, the over reliance on the fire rod. I don't hate ice physics, honeslty i kinda like when you needs to navigates a slippery path while avoiding death holes or traps (as long they aren't instant death ones). but they you sholve me in a room whit hard to kill enemies on a slippery floor, it kills all the fun, and then is that room whit the shadow creatures, a anti-fairy, slippery floor and skulls all over it on the basement 5 that is the bane of my existence A lot of the time i was whit no magic to uses the fire rod and needs to stocks on magic potions for this dungeon which was kind frustrating. And the boss, i barely remember that he exists.
This is a dungeon that is infinitely more satisfying in randomizers. Having the Cane of Somaria early lets you skip the third lap you have to take through the dungeon and different glitches can be utilized to sequence break it even more. And this is a dungeon that simply begs to be broken.
It’s funny you left this comment today while I was streaming this game and I did indeed get the cane of somaria before doing the ice palace lol. Quite the coincidence! Thanks for watching
@@CaptBurgerson Yeah I tuned in for a moment when you were grinding the digging minigame, but only after I left the comment :D Thank you for your awesome videos!
Comparing the oracle games to link to the past isn't fair as even though they were on gameboy, they're almost 10 years newer games than link to the past and the tricks / techniques they knew how to implement back in super Nintendo days. Could be wrong just a thought. But yeah not having enough magic in this place is enough to kinda dislike it myself
In my Opinion, Link to the Past tends to fall off a cliff at this point of the game, the Onslaught of Ice Palace, Then Misery Mire, followed by dreaded Turtle Rock, and Ganon's Tower, It REALLY kills the game for me.
You know what would've made the Ice Palace much more bearable? If Link was able to wear cleats. I mean, he gets boot upgrades in Ocarina of Time; was it really too much for the developers of Link to the Past to add in some cleats? Mind you, I am perfectly aware that Link to the Past came before OoT, but still, just wishful thinking.
Very based video, I don't think you complained enough to be honest. This place is just a combat gauntlet on ice or sometimes moving floors with spike traps that you have to go through 3 times, capped off with an annoying puzzle and terrible boss. The item feels like it really sholdn't be in a dungeon either.
This is the only dungeon in Zelda that I hate. I hate this place so bad it often stops playthroughs of this game dead in the water for me. It's not that it's confusing or a well designed challenge it just takes so long to get through it and your controls are messed up and if you die you have to do it all over again just UGH I'm so glad they never made a level this annoying ever again
Actually they heard the players and changed the infamous block puzzle in the GBA remake: Snes (at 7:00): ruclips.net/video/YfHUOxyiAg8/видео.html Gba (at 11:17): ruclips.net/video/TX0Cz5KmNE8/видео.html Still a very unperfect dungeon, but less frustrating. Glad to see your dungeon series back!
Thanks! I will say, generally speaking I don't care for the GBA remake. They unnecessarily added in those voice clips, and the screen crunch and GBA sound chip just make it feel like an inferior version of the game to me. I am aware that they changed the puzzle, but in my honest opinion it isn't really fixed. The way the red barriers are placed in the GBA version means that you still need to take another lap through the dungeon after striking the gem switch on the lower floor. The puzzle is made less bad, but far from being good. Anywho, thank you for watching still! Misery Mire video comes out this Friday 👀
This dungeon actually made me stop playing the game last year and not come back to it until a few weeks ago 😅. I already walked in with a bias against the dungeon bc I hate ice levels (Snowpeak in TP is prob the one exception), and then almost all of the criticisms you had were things I disliked about it. ESPECIALLY that block puzzle.
Ouf yeah this Dungeon is rough. The multi-room pushblock puzzle has haunted me since my childhood 😂 last time I replayed ALttP a year or two ago though, that's not what got me. I somehow managed to not get a key that's hidden under a certain pot in an icy room, and I did the loop like 56 times, going insane about what I was missing, never once thinking about the stupid pots. In the end I gave up and checked a guide and I was so salty about the solution 😂😂😂
When Zelda and Link did the milestone JUMP to 16-bit SNES I was actually quite disappointed ☹️😔 this game Nintendo gave us looks like 8-bit , seriously it could've been easily ported to Original NES as a late run release, , ,and the PINK HAIR was a idiotic choice for LINK , , and the sprites are tiny dang microscopic for SNES ,😮 I was expecting SNES Zelda to be more like 16-bit games such as Golden Axe or maybe King of Dragons , , , ,so again for me ""ZELDA Link to the Past"" was awful and major disappointment 😢😮☹️😔 great info about dungeon concepts a solid video 👍
I'm honestly excited to get back to dungeon design!! I've been loving your other videos too, but there's something comforting in consistency 😅 But honestly bro, you know it's a skill issue 😜 jk, jk! Compass before map is so weird 😝 oof guessing the block was the worst honestly... Doing the dungeon over and over wasn't the best! At least the boss looks like yummy cotton candy 😋🧁 lmao the dad jokes for dayyssssss! FASHION 💯 The hammer technique on frozen enemies is fun! Well, I'm sorry you had to complain so much about the dungeon, but it was deserved imho! Another great video with great analysis and contextual proof to back it up 👍🏼 excited for the next! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
That is something I mention in the next video as well, but considering how many people are commenting telling me that they do the same, it really solidifies for me how bad this puzzle is. If the majority of people would rather do dungeons out of order so that they can cheese it, then the puzzle is definitely a bad one
@CaptBurgerson Most players back in the day with this game and Zelda 1 would have a preferred order to do the dungeons that aren't the numbered order. Misery Mire is probably what a lot of people did first after getting the titans mitt since the rock covering its portal is a flute warp point.
I absolutely agree, but that sort of thing moreso applies to repeat playthroughs imho. On a blind, first time play through of the game there is no way to know that there would be a better order to do the dungeons in. Going based on the numerical order is a pretty safe bet, or so you’d think lol
@@CaptBurgerson I'm the wrong person to judge how a first playthrough should go, I did Ocarina out of order on my first playthrough and had Navi yelling at me about the clouds over death mountain for half the game.
The layout didn’t confuse me here. I just don’t like the tedium of having to take a lap through the dungeon (due to the one way paths) if I made a small error or missed something. Tedium =/= confusion. I don’t see how you felt that payoff. The item is the blue mail. If improves your defence, not your offence
Lol but why would you still have the green mail? You get the blue mail in this very dungeon. If you’re talking randomizers, sure, but I’m examining the game as it was designed, so I don’t take that into consideration
Oh, this is absolutely a skill issue. The challenge of the dungeon is the navigation, because it's not just a loop. That's why you get the map so late. Having to do it over several times is a matter of failing that challenge and having to brute force it. Figuring out the block at the end is only a guess if you don't treat it as a puzzle and try to figure it out.
Ohh early birthday present thanks. Can be rote in the loop if you don't get the hsmf if od the loop. Als o the was the first Zelda dungeon baby nr realised yu ca bypasss sdre the gbavtsjkn kill he emoj
I’m so sorry, I don’t know if my reading comprehension has gone out the window or what, but I have read this comment over so many times and I’m still confused. Happy birthday though
@@CaptBurgerson so sorry, drunk fingers and crappy phone. I said it can be rote and boring but I remember it as the 1st time I realized you can skip around in the dungeon order when I was a kid. Fuck I need a new phone lol sorry
Too bad too; aesthetically, it’s leaps and bounds better than other dungeons. It’s basically the Dark Souls II of dungeons, in that it thinks “challenge” means annoying the hell out of the player.
That "block transfer" puzzle feels like something that would have perfectly worked in a dungeon centered around the Cane of Somaria. The puzzle would be at the start of the dungeon, you'd do it the long way, then after you get the cane you have an easy shortcut.
But instead it's at the end of an already long, linear dungeon. That is why I usually do Misery Mire before the Ice Palace.
Yeah I’m currently editing the Misery Mire video rn and that puzzle does get a shoutout LOL
But you are absolutely correct here
@@CaptBurgerson I remember as a child I could never do this puzzle "properly", even with the NP Guide. After several failed loops, I looked ahead in the guide and realized that the Cane would let me bypass the entire issue. Now I just get the Cane first and save myself the trouble.
It would be really much more logic if the giant chest would have contained the Cane of Somaria, especially since it's not really used to it's potencial in Misery Mire. The only justification is the Turtle Rock requiring the Cane of Somoria and the develops want to get sure, that you free Zelda last.
@@RickRaptor105 good call! I will do that on my next play through instead of making SEVERAL LAPS beforei remember what to do 🤦🏾♂️
So, when I first played this game as a kid that final block puzzle stumped me. I had no concept of 3D space being used that way and never thought about what was above the room with the switch. Instead, I backed out, did misery mire, and realized the cane made that puzzle trivial. I then assumed that the order was always meant to be Thieves Town>Mire>Ice and the numbers were a localization mistake.
my problem with kholdstare is that it's dependent on you having enough magic juice to break the ice with your fire rod.
I ended up going in without enough and no way to regain it, so i had to accept my fate and let the boss kill me. Which meant I had to leave the dungeon to go get enough magic to kill the first ice dude, then going through this gauntlet again.
Even worse, you need magic in the very first room of the dungeon upon reentering, meaning you need to find magic… somewhere… in the overworld.
I'm not sure about the first form; in the GBA version once you've broken the barrier and you're out of magic, the falling ice blocks will occasionally drop some. I'm guessing that's an improvement on the SNES version though.
I hate that push block puzzle! I usually do the swamp dungeon to get the cane first so I can create my own block to hold the switch 😁
The Ice Palace is also my least favorite in ALttP, precisely because I had to do these "victory laps" twice, because I pushed the wrong block because I didn't remember that the button is in the lower left of this 4 square hole...
You encapsulated perfectly why I am not fond of that dungeon. I wouldn't say it's bad, but I am not a fan.
I realized that a handful of the Ice Palace rooms look like a frozen over version of Zelda 1 dungeon rooms, with the square tile floors, brick walls, and doors placed center of each wall. The Fire Bars present in the dungeon even call back to the fact that said hazard was initially designed for Zelda 1 before they decided to use it for SMB instead. The Bubbles and Zols that inhabit it are also Zelda 1 foes brought back, with the latter coming after a hiatus in Zelda 2 where similar foes took their place (Bits and Bots), with Medusas being very similar to the Statues of Zelda 1, not ceasing their fireball onslaught, even after the room is cleared.
this dungeon really grew on me and what is cool is how you can tackle it without the hookshot but you will need to warp back to the entrance, however one big nitpick i have is how the shutter door is needlessly placed here. kholdstare needing magic was another problem but this was fixed in the gba port. you can also get through the dungeon with bombos medallion. the ice physics are not not the best, but they are not that bad.
Nintendo knew this, too. A Link To The Past on SNES came with a small 1" x 3" black paper book (in addition to the instruction manual). It was sealed with a sticker and described solutions to some of the challenging puzzles in the game or where certain items can be found. I used it for this dungeon.
one of the frustrating weaknesses of Link to the past and link between worlds dark world dungeons having a not rigid dungeon order is that it cant account for the items you need. i appreciate having freedom in a game where you can technically do any dungeon once you get the Hammer. really, the only reason you MIGHT want to do LTTPs dungeons in the order the game gives you is for the story. in link between worlds, it at least lets you buy the items you need to do the dungeons in order (you can buy and own all of them if you want) but in LTTP, each dungeon can REALLY only account for the item you get in its dungeon. ie, in OOT, the fire temple can account for the bow, hookshot and the megaton hammer, the water temple can account for the bow, megaton hammer, longshot, the spirit temple can account for all your items. in wind waker, the forbidden woods can account for the grappling hook, the deku leaf, and boomerang, the tower of the gods can account for bombs, the bow, the boomerang, the grappling hook.
but thats what i like about BOTWs divine beasts and the game giving you the slate. the world and the divine beasts give you the freedom to do whatever you want while you can start with any of them but the characters and world still can lead you to what should be the first/easiest dungeon, still leaving it up to you.
all in all, while i appreciate LTTP/LBWs freedom with the dungeon order, i just personally feel like if the order was ALITTLE more rigid, it couldve made more interesting puzzles in its dungeons to let you get the most out of more of you inventory. in the end, we do have to remember that link to the past is only the third game of a 40 year old series, its only natural they couldnt account for everything given what the had to work with at the time. but yeah, wouldve been more painless playing through the annoying dungeons like the ice palace and couldve made more creative puzzles if they were able to incorporate more item usage into LTTPs dungeons.
I've played this game so many times and still I always push the wrong block down the hole. But thanks to the comment section I now know that the Cane of Somaria is helping a lot here. Never thought about it before, I always finished the dungeons in order. 😅
I was not a fan of this one either for largely the reasons you laid out here. I dislike how you can run out of magic and get stuck against the ice enemies. When I was younger, I ended up doing Level 6 first to get the Red Cane that can create blocks, just to make the final block puzzle in here less of a issue. Though when you break it down in here, it doesn't seem like that big of a issue.
Good video as always, thanks Burgerson!
I've conceptualized this dungeon as two areas. First a gauntlet of danger to wear you down if and when you have the misfortune of dying deeper in the dungeon. Eventually it branches into a maze of one-way paths, so wrong turns are punishing. Some of these paths are essentially traps which force you back to the gauntlet, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 rupees. The result is wandering in circles while slowly getting worn down.
I'm really glad I beat Kholdstare first try as a kid (bombos medallion makes quick work of the first phase), because I don't know the next time I would have reached the boss room again.
I definitely agree that the dungeon item should have been something that helped with puzzles. One of the things I loved about Zelda dungeons is using the item to solve unique puzzles especially when you get it later on to solve puzzles you couldn't before and get to new areas, I always felt a sense of progress when I was able to do that.
I feel like the whole compass and map locations are there to just build up a certain level of uncertainty. I remember my first run of the dungeon on NSO I scrolled down and down to see the boss 7 floors down. I never seen a dungeon seven floors down… I thought. In the dungeon I delved, I died a lot and I enjoyed it. The map placement feels more like an objective being completed, and showing you ‘now look the boss is right there GO!’ How close the boss is.
As a kid I got stuck at basement 6 left went to Misery Mire got the Cane went back to the Ice Palace and used the Cane to make a block to press the switch to beat the dungeon.
I remember coming into this dungeon with the Cane of Somaria to nullify the infamous block puzzle. Which is weird, because even as a kid, I was always pedantic about doing things in order.
I found this dungeon difficult but liked playing it. It was fun to experiment and find out what to do. I grew up with games like Link‘s Awakening and Mystic Quest for Game Boy (aka Seiken Densetsu / Final Fantasy Adventures) and having to explore, try out and remember or take notes of things I have not yet the answer to is normal to me. It might be more fun to have a bit more guidance and fail proof design choices, but on the other hand, having to find out stuff and to experiment and having to walk around more than once does not bother me much because it feels kind of more realistic, less fabricated.
I literally walk around in circles EVERYTIME i play that level. then remember to drop down into the big chest room to push the block into the hole. ugh
I don’t really dislike this one after replaying it. Just when it would have gotten annoying to me, it ended. I didn’t mind this block puzzle, because at first the only blocks you can push are wrong ones, and you immediately realize that you need to push one of the other ones
I only have to disagree slightly with the take on the boss. As a kid back in 1992, I struggled with most of the bosses including this one. And this one may not have the worst attacks and patterns, but what it does do is hit like an absolute truck. The damage done by contact with the eyeballs is really crazy, and the amount of lag in that boss fight makes your controls feel muddy at best. If you get pinned between the eyes you're just toast, especially if you managed to get there without finding the Blue Mail first like I'm pretty sure I did the first time. It felt brutal and I always used up all my potions trying to survive in the dungeon itself. Now these days with experience it doesn't seem nearly as bad of course - though, try having it be the first boss you need to fight with 3 hearts in a randomizer and that feeling comes back suddenly.
Oooh this was an interesting take to watch. I always had fond memories of the ice palace (probably cuz of the intrigue of a vertical dungeon in an old Zelda game), but looking at it critically, I 100% agree with most of your complaints and grievances here. ESPECIALLY the block puzzle which… I didn’t even realise was a puzzle cuz I just happened to have the cane of somaria before entering this place.
I have been playing this game since I was 12. I am 44 now. I don't think I actually know how to solve that puzzle without just doing Misery Mire first still lol
Man I always love Ice themed dungeons. I love the look of this dungeon, too bad about the missed potential here. The map and compass should definitely have been swapped!
Yeah, this is definitely my least favorite dungeon in the game, but I don’t necessarily hate it. It just kind’ve feels thrown together, like they designed it last and just ran out of ideas. Loving this series btw! I’ve watched them all but I’m just now getting caught up on the ALTTP dungeons.
Hot take - the compass in ALttP is a useless item. It only shows the boss location, but with one exception (Thieves Town) the location is always as deep into the dungeon as possible. If you see a 7 floor dungeon, you just assume the boss is on that 7th floor. And with a map it's pretty easy to see which rooms you haven't been to (and without one, having a vague boss location doesn't actually help guide your immediate direction).
Link's Awakening fixes this by giving it the sound effect for secrets; until then, I would have rather replaced all the compass chests with 20 rupees or something
Not a hot take at all lol. I’m right there with you, and I even mention this- almost verbatim actually- in my Tail Cave video haha
I find the maps are rubbish generally. The maps in links awakening are much clearer and easier to use
10:14 I don’t know if you did it on purpose because of the timing of what you were saying but that room in the desert also is totally
Pointless, you defeat all the enemies only for it to reopen the door to get out again and nothing else. Although I kinda like the concept of things not always being rewarding, personally. Keeps things less predictable and toys with you a bit.
You're right, it was pretty useless even for a first playthrough. I would get especially annoyed when I expected the chest to have a small key or something I needed to progress and it turned out to just be a compass.
I can't wait till you do Ganon's Tower, and discuss the green stylized Triforce decorations in it!
As a kid, the block puzzle was difficult. If you actually explore the dungeon, it’s braindead easy to solve. I’m not a big fan of the double loop, but this was Nintendo’s second real attempt at a proper “theme” for a dungeon, after the swamp palace. I personally think the dungeon is fantastic. Yes, the moving the block to access a door and having to move it again is fundamentally flawed in this game, but it was the first time they tried it. They made it better later on in future games. 🤷🏻♂️
I was expecting commentary on what happens if you run out of magic in the first phase of the Kholdstare fight...unless there's another way to do it.
If ALttP had to number the dungeons, they really, really, REALLY should have swapped Misery Mire to 5 and Ice Palace to 6, because heck this dungeon, seriously. On repeat plays you know to go get Cane of Somaria first, but on most people's first playthrough they're going to go with what the game itself recommends right there on the map, and that is a cursed mistake in this case.
I had the same thought because i have no big picture of how the dungeon looks like. But when i played it several times and i knew the dungeon by heart, i knew how great of dungeon and a master piece it is. This is my opinion at least.
Overly lengthy, confuse, tons of enemies on slippery floors, the over reliance on the fire rod.
I don't hate ice physics, honeslty i kinda like when you needs to navigates a slippery path while avoiding death holes or traps (as long they aren't instant death ones). but they you sholve me in a room whit hard to kill enemies on a slippery floor, it kills all the fun, and then is that room whit the shadow creatures, a anti-fairy, slippery floor and skulls all over it on the basement 5 that is the bane of my existence
A lot of the time i was whit no magic to uses the fire rod and needs to stocks on magic potions for this dungeon which was kind frustrating.
And the boss, i barely remember that he exists.
Awesome, time to grab a snack and drink. 🥘 🍹
This is a dungeon that is infinitely more satisfying in randomizers. Having the Cane of Somaria early lets you skip the third lap you have to take through the dungeon and different glitches can be utilized to sequence break it even more. And this is a dungeon that simply begs to be broken.
It’s funny you left this comment today while I was streaming this game and I did indeed get the cane of somaria before doing the ice palace lol. Quite the coincidence!
Thanks for watching
@@CaptBurgerson Yeah I tuned in for a moment when you were grinding the digging minigame, but only after I left the comment :D Thank you for your awesome videos!
Comparing the oracle games to link to the past isn't fair as even though they were on gameboy, they're almost 10 years newer games than link to the past and the tricks / techniques they knew how to implement back in super Nintendo days. Could be wrong just a thought. But yeah not having enough magic in this place is enough to kinda dislike it myself
In my Opinion, Link to the Past tends to fall off a cliff at this point of the game, the Onslaught of Ice Palace, Then Misery Mire, followed by dreaded Turtle Rock, and Ganon's Tower, It REALLY kills the game for me.
The Ice Palace is not good, I'll die on that hill, but I genuinely enjoy the rest of 'em
You know what would've made the Ice Palace much more bearable? If Link was able to wear cleats. I mean, he gets boot upgrades in Ocarina of Time; was it really too much for the developers of Link to the Past to add in some cleats?
Mind you, I am perfectly aware that Link to the Past came before OoT, but still, just wishful thinking.
Very based video, I don't think you complained enough to be honest. This place is just a combat gauntlet on ice or sometimes moving floors with spike traps that you have to go through 3 times, capped off with an annoying puzzle and terrible boss. The item feels like it really sholdn't be in a dungeon either.
I actually had to enter the dungeon a second time after accidentally entering the boss room without looting the big chest. Very annoying.
The version of the block puzzle that I know is the simplified one from the GBA version of the game. Even with that nerf, I still hate the Ice Palace.
This is the only dungeon in Zelda that I hate. I hate this place so bad it often stops playthroughs of this game dead in the water for me. It's not that it's confusing or a well designed challenge it just takes so long to get through it and your controls are messed up and if you die you have to do it all over again just UGH I'm so glad they never made a level this annoying ever again
13:26 Nice dad pun 10/10 lol
Heheheheheh
Idk if anyone else has said this but I wonder if the boss was made so easy because of the ridiculous slog of the dungeon.
Actually they heard the players and changed the infamous block puzzle in the GBA remake:
Snes (at 7:00): ruclips.net/video/YfHUOxyiAg8/видео.html
Gba (at 11:17): ruclips.net/video/TX0Cz5KmNE8/видео.html
Still a very unperfect dungeon, but less frustrating. Glad to see your dungeon series back!
Thanks!
I will say, generally speaking I don't care for the GBA remake. They unnecessarily added in those voice clips, and the screen crunch and GBA sound chip just make it feel like an inferior version of the game to me.
I am aware that they changed the puzzle, but in my honest opinion it isn't really fixed. The way the red barriers are placed in the GBA version means that you still need to take another lap through the dungeon after striking the gem switch on the lower floor. The puzzle is made less bad, but far from being good.
Anywho, thank you for watching still! Misery Mire video comes out this Friday 👀
Regarding the visuals and atmosphere, this is one of the most appealing dungeons to me.
When I played this game I would go to dungeon 6 to get the cane that made blocks appear and go to dungeon 5.
Same. I could never do it properly. I always pushed the wrong block down that hole
Coming back to this video after listening to a few others analyze the dungeon, I think it could’ve been fixed with a few permanent shortcuts
This dungeon actually made me stop playing the game last year and not come back to it until a few weeks ago 😅. I already walked in with a bias against the dungeon bc I hate ice levels (Snowpeak in TP is prob the one exception), and then almost all of the criticisms you had were things I disliked about it. ESPECIALLY that block puzzle.
Ouf yeah this Dungeon is rough. The multi-room pushblock puzzle has haunted me since my childhood 😂 last time I replayed ALttP a year or two ago though, that's not what got me. I somehow managed to not get a key that's hidden under a certain pot in an icy room, and I did the loop like 56 times, going insane about what I was missing, never once thinking about the stupid pots. In the end I gave up and checked a guide and I was so salty about the solution 😂😂😂
After I finally found the key, I couldn't find the key door again, getting lost several times in this gauntlet ...
When Zelda and Link did the milestone JUMP to 16-bit SNES I was actually quite disappointed ☹️😔 this game Nintendo gave us looks like 8-bit , seriously it could've been easily ported to Original NES as a late run release, , ,and the PINK HAIR was a idiotic choice for LINK , , and the sprites are tiny dang microscopic for SNES ,😮 I was expecting SNES Zelda to be more like 16-bit games such as Golden Axe or maybe King of Dragons , , , ,so again for me ""ZELDA Link to the Past"" was awful and major disappointment 😢😮☹️😔 great info about dungeon concepts a solid video 👍
I'm honestly excited to get back to dungeon design!! I've been loving your other videos too, but there's something comforting in consistency 😅
But honestly bro, you know it's a skill issue 😜 jk, jk! Compass before map is so weird 😝 oof guessing the block was the worst honestly... Doing the dungeon over and over wasn't the best! At least the boss looks like yummy cotton candy 😋🧁 lmao the dad jokes for dayyssssss! FASHION 💯 The hammer technique on frozen enemies is fun! Well, I'm sorry you had to complain so much about the dungeon, but it was deserved imho! Another great video with great analysis and contextual proof to back it up 👍🏼 excited for the next! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
10:50 I usually cheese this puzzle with the cane of Somaria
That is something I mention in the next video as well, but considering how many people are commenting telling me that they do the same, it really solidifies for me how bad this puzzle is. If the majority of people would rather do dungeons out of order so that they can cheese it, then the puzzle is definitely a bad one
@CaptBurgerson Most players back in the day with this game and Zelda 1 would have a preferred order to do the dungeons that aren't the numbered order. Misery Mire is probably what a lot of people did first after getting the titans mitt since the rock covering its portal is a flute warp point.
I absolutely agree, but that sort of thing moreso applies to repeat playthroughs imho. On a blind, first time play through of the game there is no way to know that there would be a better order to do the dungeons in. Going based on the numerical order is a pretty safe bet, or so you’d think lol
@@CaptBurgerson I'm the wrong person to judge how a first playthrough should go, I did Ocarina out of order on my first playthrough and had Navi yelling at me about the clouds over death mountain for half the game.
Listen Bunny, there’s an arctic wind blowing from Zora’s domain!! LISTEN BUNNY
First RUclips video that I ever watched on Premier. It feels cool.
But yeah, this dungeon is AWFUL! Especially if you die or leave...
They somehow managed to make it even worse in A Link Between Worlds
I rage quit on the GBA version of this and never finished the game…heard the last two were even worse though.
I love this series
Too bad they dropped the ball, glad it seems they learned from it anyways
Fantastic
I felt a payoff from the dungeon item because the penguins become extremely weak.
P.S. you liked the water temple, but you were not happy at being confused by the layout? What happened to using the map?
The layout didn’t confuse me here. I just don’t like the tedium of having to take a lap through the dungeon (due to the one way paths) if I made a small error or missed something.
Tedium =/= confusion.
I don’t see how you felt that payoff. The item is the blue mail. If improves your defence, not your offence
I believe this was the dungeon that made me quit the game
Hello friend 😊
Skill issue 😂
Bro said coldstare is easy. Try it with 7 hearts master sword and green mail and let's see how easy it is 😅.
Lol but why would you still have the green mail? You get the blue mail in this very dungeon. If you’re talking randomizers, sure, but I’m examining the game as it was designed, so I don’t take that into consideration
Oh, this is absolutely a skill issue. The challenge of the dungeon is the navigation, because it's not just a loop. That's why you get the map so late. Having to do it over several times is a matter of failing that challenge and having to brute force it. Figuring out the block at the end is only a guess if you don't treat it as a puzzle and try to figure it out.
Ohh early birthday present thanks. Can be rote in the loop if you don't get the hsmf if od the loop. Als o the was the first Zelda dungeon baby nr realised yu ca bypasss sdre the gbavtsjkn kill he emoj
I’m so sorry, I don’t know if my reading comprehension has gone out the window or what, but I have read this comment over so many times and I’m still confused. Happy birthday though
@@CaptBurgerson so sorry, drunk fingers and crappy phone. I said it can be rote and boring but I remember it as the 1st time I realized you can skip around in the dungeon order when I was a kid. Fuck I need a new phone lol sorry
Nice