Spray technique - If you look at yourself spraying here you'll see that you are waving the gun in an arc. Best is to keep the nozzle at 90º to the panel and move the gun sideways back and forth parallel to the panel keeping the nozzle to panel distance constant. You'll get better and more even coverage this way. Even better if you have a fan nozzle. Watch car sprayers to see the technique. Interesting speakers and food for thought. Economical too. Perhaps you satellite crossovers could be in a flat box on top of the sub rather than inside? Make them narrow front to back so they aren't too obvious.
Hello Ben. To increase the response in the High Frequency range, try gluing an acoustic lens right in the center of the transducer from the front side. So did "steve shore". As a lens, he used a CD or a small plastic plate or a shortened plastic glass. Thank you for the video.
Thanks Alexandr- I might try it on my test panel but I don’t think I’d want to stick anything on these ones. I did see Steve Shore’s videos - really interesting, I wish he had some measurements up.
I used to work in insulation business, when cutting insulation if your using a utility knife out of necessity (Far better blades than those) compress what your cutting with a 2x4 or metal straight edge, it cuts much easier, and less of a mess. nice job overall.
Good for you man, glad to se you're happy with them. I would have guessed you'd be trying to tame the highs instead of adding a tweeter. They look really nice.
Acrylic has kicked my ass so many times, but I think I've finally got the hang of it. For drilling holes I have found that high speed low pressure worked best. It's that last little bit as the drill bit is just breaking through that has destroyed so many pieces for me. High speed low pressure with a flat backer and incremental steps, now that's a lesson I've learned the hard way. Clearly your technique is working well for you. And those speakers look awesome man. I never would of thought about printing the panels with a picture, I didn't eve know that was an option. This has been a very interesting journey, thanks for taking us along for the ride. Cheers 🍻
Yeah it’s a tricky one for sure. The clear piece I used for testing had the corner broken off because I got a bit impatient with the drilling - I had to sort of clamp it with a washer to take my measurements. Took it real nice and slow on these printed ones! Thanks again 🙏
Hello Ben, With expensive acrylic panels I would look at using a laser cutter to make the holes. With 3mm it cuts really nice with a CO2 laser cutter. Great project all the best Cheers, mate.
Nice job! They look and sound amazing. I don't know if you've had a real close look at the AER Goldy exciters (the BBX module), but they are actually mounted on the front of the panel. There's a little disc of what looks like the kind of material used to make circuit boards out of screwed into the front of the module which is the tweeter. One driver is essentially two types of speaker. Wonder if the screw hole at the back of your exciters could be used for your rear-facing tweeter idea? There's some great up close shots of the BBX module on the AER website so you can see what I mean and there are RUclips videos of the Goldy at trade events where it clearly shows the module attached to the front of the panel.
With DML speakers, I can't get the idea of layering multiple panels out of my head. What if you were to take 2-3 panels of different thicknesses and stack them together with spacers in between? Possibly the spacers should be located on these 2/5 and 3/5 resonance nodes. Surely this would have some kind of effect on the range of frequencies the speakers could play? On top of that, I've been wondering if a very thin panel were to be used with another resonator (almost like the membrane on a subwoofer) inside an enclosed box, if this would create a passable dml subwoofer? I'd love to experiment with this.
Hi Ben I've had to close my channel because of copyright issues, try an aluminium disc 3inch diameter x 1.5mm thick with an aluminium washer in the centre of the disk as a stand off, place them towards the top of the acrylic at the back, makes a brilliant tweeter.
Hey Steve. That’s a shame about your videos - you’ve taken a unique approach that seems to be paying off with the speakers. I’ll look into the disc thing on the back of the panel! EDIT: Did you ever get around to using the bass shaker on your panels?
@@TypicalBenYT oh yeah I used a separate canvas panel with a piece of acrylic 3mm thick glued to the back with a bass shaker in the centre, in a 2.1 amp set up awesome.
Hi Steve, is there any way I could connect with you through email or social media? I've been watching your DML videos for a long time and tried your method out as well. It's a shame that all your videos got taken down..
@@SashiShrestha Hi Sashi I've exhausted all the canvas panels, I can't see what else I can say or do regarding the canvas builds, I'm starting a new project soon with open baffle speakers.
I wondered where you’d gone Steve! I think you can use music as long as you attribute it. See how Joppe Peelen does it in his speaker videos - he seems to have been on-air doing build / demo videos for a few years now. Interesting tech too!
If you wet the fabric first and then staple it on, it will shrink when dried and be very taunt. That is how cane mesh chairs are tight enough to sit on.
That does seem to be the common way of doing things but it doesn't have to be suspended. I've built several pairs of panels with semi-rigid attachments to a wooden frame. Initially I tried this due to ease of construction and the fact that it's "neat", but I have also gotten some really good results sound-wise. The corners of the panel are effectively 'clamped' but the rest of the panel edge is free. In particular the sound out of these hybrid panels was really nice.
@@TypicalBenYT I will have to experiment… we’re buying a new house (closing on 7/14) and I’ve been researching speaker ideas for a listening room and/or a home theater area… maybe suspending some panels from the ceiling (three across the front two in the back suspended flat from the four corners like a dropped ceiling)
Thank you! So this build actually started because I had built a pair of floor standing panels but didn't really have the room for a separate sub woofer (as you can see in the video). So it made sense (to me anyway) to integrate the woofers into the design. The other issue is that the panels do start to roll of at approximately 200 - 250hz, and most powered subs won't cross over that high. Even if I could get one to cross at 250hz, that's high enough that localization becomes an issue (you can tell where in the room the sound is coming from), so having a sub in a different spot from the speaker becomes problematic. If you run EQ to flatten the panels out to a lower frequency and run a single sub up to maybe 100 - 120hz , that could work, but I stand by what I said in this video about the panels sounding better with the 250hz roll off. By removing the bass from the panels, I feel that that rest of the frequency range is improved.
Why not just turn that bottom TV desk into a sub and hang the acrylic frames on wall? The boxes look ugly and seems to take a lot of space! Just my 2 cents.
You say that like it'd be easy! Doing that without ruining my new furniture is well outside of my skill level to be honest. Also with the wall-mounting - it's nice from an aesthetic point of view but doesn't sound very good. The further I pull these out into the room, the better they sound - just like conventional speakers and especially open-baffles (which are most similar to the panels). I am going to make wall hanging panels in another room but they'll be more for background music whereas I really wanted to get nice sound out of these ones.
Easier but not a substitute really. Most commercial powered subs can’t cross over as high as mine (250hz with a 2nd order slope). I really wanted to take as much LF load off the panels as possible so needed a woofer that could play higher.
@@TypicalBenYT Some Sub amps can reach 200hz with 12db per octave low pass. Combine that with the versatility of being able to adjust the volume as well as crossover setting will make it easier to blend in with the DML panels as well as to compensate for room gain like you mentioned.
OB was my first thought as well and would be ideal. it did seem like I'd need to use some kind of active crossover or external EQ to get a linear response (though I'm happy to be corrected on that - I've no experience with OB) so in the end I decided to go for the simpler solution.
Just looked at the AE Spaeker 12" OB woofers - 30lbs each! Damn, I'd have to redesign my frame to support those things. Currently it doesn't have to be very solid since the enclosure supports it's own weight and the tall frame only needs to support a lightweight panel. Maybe Hybrid V2 though!
It appears that both exciters were placed in different positions with only one being at the 3/4 position. How was the other positioned? Did you rerun your frequency response tests with finished set? configuration,?🏙️
Hey Wilbur - they're both in the 3/4 centered spot - if it looks different in the video it must just be the angle or something. I've only done a couple of in-room measurements so far but I do plan to get some proper ones done soon.
Spray technique - If you look at yourself spraying here you'll see that you are waving the gun in an arc. Best is to keep the nozzle at 90º to the panel and move the gun sideways back and forth parallel to the panel keeping the nozzle to panel distance constant. You'll get better and more even coverage this way. Even better if you have a fan nozzle. Watch car sprayers to see the technique.
Interesting speakers and food for thought. Economical too. Perhaps you satellite crossovers could be in a flat box on top of the sub rather than inside? Make them narrow front to back so they aren't too obvious.
Lots of practical advise in the comments. Lovely when people are trying to help each other out.
Hello Ben.
To increase the response in the High Frequency range, try gluing an acoustic lens right in the center of the transducer from the front side.
So did "steve shore". As a lens, he used a CD or a small plastic plate or a shortened plastic glass.
Thank you for the video.
Thanks Alexandr- I might try it on my test panel but I don’t think I’d want to stick anything on these ones. I did see Steve Shore’s videos - really interesting, I wish he had some measurements up.
I used to work in insulation business, when cutting insulation if your using a utility knife out of necessity (Far better blades than those) compress what your cutting with a 2x4 or metal straight edge, it cuts much easier, and less of a mess. nice job overall.
Makes a lot of sense, thanks!
Good for you man, glad to se you're happy with them. I would have guessed you'd be trying to tame the highs instead of adding a tweeter. They look really nice.
Yep me too. I wonder if it’s the printed backing/adhesive on these panels you know…
And thanks!
Finally they're done. I've been following your project closely. Great job👏👏👏
Thanks so much 🙏
Acrylic has kicked my ass so many times, but I think I've finally got the hang of it. For drilling holes I have found that high speed low pressure worked best. It's that last little bit as the drill bit is just breaking through that has destroyed so many pieces for me. High speed low pressure with a flat backer and incremental steps, now that's a lesson I've learned the hard way. Clearly your technique is working well for you. And those speakers look awesome man. I never would of thought about printing the panels with a picture, I didn't eve know that was an option. This has been a very interesting journey, thanks for taking us along for the ride. Cheers 🍻
Yeah it’s a tricky one for sure. The clear piece I used for testing had the corner broken off because I got a bit impatient with the drilling - I had to sort of clamp it with a washer to take my measurements. Took it real nice and slow on these printed ones!
Thanks again 🙏
Hello Ben,
With expensive acrylic panels I would look at using a laser cutter to make the holes. With 3mm it cuts really nice with a CO2 laser cutter. Great project all the best Cheers, mate.
So happy for you buddy! They look great! Wishing you all the best!
Thanks so much Greg!
You should stand up one of your inductors on each crossover so the magnetic fields won't interfere with each other.
the potential to interfere at that distance w/ the supplied current is close to zero but yeah..
Not at that distance apart! Good practice on a standard board though yes.
Fun project. Enjoyed the build. Thanks.
Thank you!
Nice job! They look and sound amazing. I don't know if you've had a real close look at the AER Goldy exciters (the BBX module), but they are actually mounted on the front of the panel. There's a little disc of what looks like the kind of material used to make circuit boards out of screwed into the front of the module which is the tweeter. One driver is essentially two types of speaker. Wonder if the screw hole at the back of your exciters could be used for your rear-facing tweeter idea? There's some great up close shots of the BBX module on the AER website so you can see what I mean and there are RUclips videos of the Goldy at trade events where it clearly shows the module attached to the front of the panel.
Hey Barry, yeah I have looked at the goldys and the trick exciter. Hadn’t thought of it on these though - really interesting idea!
Very nice result.
Thank you!
Very well done, speakers and video! Cheers
Thank you!
With DML speakers, I can't get the idea of layering multiple panels out of my head.
What if you were to take 2-3 panels of different thicknesses and stack them together with spacers in between? Possibly the spacers should be located on these 2/5 and 3/5 resonance nodes. Surely this would have some kind of effect on the range of frequencies the speakers could play?
On top of that, I've been wondering if a very thin panel were to be used with another resonator (almost like the membrane on a subwoofer) inside an enclosed box, if this would create a passable dml subwoofer?
I'd love to experiment with this.
Hi Ben I've had to close my channel because of copyright issues, try an aluminium disc 3inch diameter x 1.5mm thick with an aluminium washer in the centre of the disk as a stand off, place them towards the top of the acrylic at the back, makes a brilliant tweeter.
Hey Steve. That’s a shame about your videos - you’ve taken a unique approach that seems to be paying off with the speakers. I’ll look into the disc thing on the back of the panel!
EDIT: Did you ever get around to using the bass shaker on your panels?
@@TypicalBenYT oh yeah I used a separate canvas panel with a piece of acrylic 3mm thick glued to the back with a bass shaker in the centre, in a 2.1 amp set up awesome.
Hi Steve, is there any way I could connect with you through email or social media? I've been watching your DML videos for a long time and tried your method out as well. It's a shame that all your videos got taken down..
@@SashiShrestha Hi Sashi I've exhausted all the canvas panels, I can't see what else I can say or do regarding the canvas builds, I'm starting a new project soon with open baffle speakers.
I wondered where you’d gone Steve! I think you can use music as long as you attribute it. See how Joppe Peelen does it in his speaker videos - he seems to have been on-air doing build / demo videos for a few years now. Interesting tech too!
If you wet the fabric first and then staple it on, it will shrink when dried and be very taunt. That is how cane mesh chairs are tight enough to sit on.
Brilliant, thanks!
Very interesting… I thought DML panels had to be suspended to work… versus attached… enlighten me 😊
That does seem to be the common way of doing things but it doesn't have to be suspended. I've built several pairs of panels with semi-rigid attachments to a wooden frame. Initially I tried this due to ease of construction and the fact that it's "neat", but I have also gotten some really good results sound-wise. The corners of the panel are effectively 'clamped' but the rest of the panel edge is free. In particular the sound out of these hybrid panels was really nice.
@@TypicalBenYT I will have to experiment… we’re buying a new house (closing on 7/14) and I’ve been researching speaker ideas for a listening room and/or a home theater area… maybe suspending some panels from the ceiling (three across the front two in the back suspended flat from the four corners like a dropped ceiling)
Hi, I am impressed very much. My question is don't you think one sub is enough? And would it play better with a lamp amplifier?
Thank you!
So this build actually started because I had built a pair of floor standing panels but didn't really have the room for a separate sub woofer (as you can see in the video). So it made sense (to me anyway) to integrate the woofers into the design.
The other issue is that the panels do start to roll of at approximately 200 - 250hz, and most powered subs won't cross over that high. Even if I could get one to cross at 250hz, that's high enough that localization becomes an issue (you can tell where in the room the sound is coming from), so having a sub in a different spot from the speaker becomes problematic.
If you run EQ to flatten the panels out to a lower frequency and run a single sub up to maybe 100 - 120hz , that could work, but I stand by what I said in this video about the panels sounding better with the 250hz roll off. By removing the bass from the panels, I feel that that rest of the frequency range is improved.
Thanks for the answer. Now I see. I hope I will follow your succesful experiment here in Sibirea.
@@xkb2010 yeah of course there are many ways you could go but this setup works well for me. Good luck with your build!
Well done. Brilliant.
Artist !
Good job i'm proud of you
Why not just turn that bottom TV desk into a sub and hang the acrylic frames on wall? The boxes look ugly and seems to take a lot of space! Just my 2 cents.
You say that like it'd be easy! Doing that without ruining my new furniture is well outside of my skill level to be honest.
Also with the wall-mounting - it's nice from an aesthetic point of view but doesn't sound very good. The further I pull these out into the room, the better they sound - just like conventional speakers and especially open-baffles (which are most similar to the panels).
I am going to make wall hanging panels in another room but they'll be more for background music whereas I really wanted to get nice sound out of these ones.
@@TypicalBenYT Makes sense. Enjoy your next project 👍👍
@@kaikoolblader Will do thanks a lot!
The easier route would of been just to add a separate powered subwoofer in which you can adjust the frequency as well as the volume of the bass.
Easier but not a substitute really. Most commercial powered subs can’t cross over as high as mine (250hz with a 2nd order slope). I really wanted to take as much LF load off the panels as possible so needed a woofer that could play higher.
@@TypicalBenYT Some Sub amps can reach 200hz with 12db per octave low pass. Combine that with the versatility of being able to adjust the volume as well as crossover setting will make it easier to blend in with the DML panels as well as to compensate for room gain like you mentioned.
12 Inch openbaffle subs would probably be better my recommendation aespeakers
OB was my first thought as well and would be ideal. it did seem like I'd need to use some kind of active crossover or external EQ to get a linear response (though I'm happy to be corrected on that - I've no experience with OB) so in the end I decided to go for the simpler solution.
Just looked at the AE Spaeker 12" OB woofers - 30lbs each! Damn, I'd have to redesign my frame to support those things. Currently it doesn't have to be very solid since the enclosure supports it's own weight and the tall frame only needs to support a lightweight panel.
Maybe Hybrid V2 though!
Like the idea of the speakers but that picture.
It appears that both exciters were placed in different positions with only one being at the 3/4 position. How was the other positioned? Did you rerun your frequency response tests with finished set? configuration,?🏙️
Hey Wilbur - they're both in the 3/4 centered spot - if it looks different in the video it must just be the angle or something. I've only done a couple of in-room measurements so far but I do plan to get some proper ones done soon.