3D Printed Gearbox (Herringbone Gears) - Speed Test
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- Опубликовано: 9 ноя 2021
- In this 3d printed gearbox experiment we will see how these new engineering design considerations impact how well this 3d printed gearbox works. We will go through the engineering process as well and conduct a speed test to see how fast we can get the gearbox to spin.
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-Steven
(Engineer here)
The teeth type is one of the best for this situation, well done on this one. But give a shot to these two/three things.
1:use something to prevent the axes from bending, (a flange between the gears)
2 and most importantly: jumping a whole milimeter just because 75 didn’t do is an overkill. Usually when one adjusts gears, you need about .1-.2mm between them (space just enough for a piece of paper to get roller between the gears) this is something that will prevent more of the teeth jumping you had when applying torque.
3: lubricant is not really needed in my opinion since the surfaces are rough and you don’t care about the lifetime. Try treating the parts with acetone moisture to reduce the roughness.
Add some weight to the one of the three last gears so they perform as a flywheel.(this might be dangerous)
Pretty nice project, would be lovely if you measured the output speed.
In my experience "this might be dangerous" in engineering is usually a good sign for progress lmao
@@NephiylusBaphson ah yes, fellow engineer too, eh?
As a layman when he jumped a whole millimeter I sighed. 75 mm sounded only slightly off so .2 mm might have done it
A flywheel was something I was gonna recommend as well.
Source: am not an engineer
not an engineer in any way but i think external lubricant its a good thing, even if you dont care about life time it still reduces the friction right? the acetone it's very good but i heard that also makes the parts weaker, and i thing he should try to clean the bearings, i mean the inside of them, usually comes with a relative thick lubricant and since they are balls they run just fine without them if its for small amounts of time (heat is the problem) or he could put a very thin one like wd40? just some opinions like i said no engineer just my past experience
I think a lightweight aluminum flywheel at the end would help it store energy when it's up to speed, you'll have to start w bit slower but it'll make it run smoother and you can crank more consistently too
Just a general note, when installing press fit bearings you should always use a collar (between the bearing and hammer, or press) that ensures your hammer strikes will only transfer to the outer bearing race (in a pinch, a socket with the closest diameter to the outer race will work). If the bearing is being press fit onto a shaft you would only apply force to the inner race, just to be clear, it depends on the application.
Striking the bearing as you do in this video can cause bearing ball deformity and indentations to the race surfaces.
For this application it's not really a big deal, but for more constant use applications it's best to develop good habits for bearing installation.
IDK if you've tried this, but you can get the bearings to run much better by removing the shield and then using degreaser to remove the very thick lube. You can replace the lube with a drop of sewing machine oil, or just run the bearings 'dry', which does decrease their lifetimes significantly. But it's still hours of working condition.
The shields are removable by flat screwdriver, and can be pushed in again afterwards.
I don't think that's a good idea unless you wanna ruin the bearings, because the grease in ball bearings is thick for a reason. Thinner oils will immediately get ejected by centrifugal forces once the bearing spins up, leaving it to run dry in a matter of seconds.
@@ChronicMechatronic he said it decreases the lifetime significantly
@@ianmoore322 he said running them dry would decrease the lifespan significantly, but by using thin oil they will eventually also run dry
that would only work if he got a proper sized shaft. At the moment those bearing are likehoop earings and are just loosley on the shaft.
@@PBMS123 I noticed the play between the bearings and the shaft as well. That needs to be eliminated to aid in achieving top speed. I also agree with running a dry bearing in this application. The builder is going for top speed not longevity. It will be mission critical to remove as much friction as possible.
Every dude here thinking he can break it.
😂😂😂
Lol that's not the goal buddy
It's called a hammer
all the gears are finally spinning
The ratios are different from the ones before
Never heard of micro center and I'm just getting into computers, wiring, programming, etc. This will be great. I'm glad you're sponsored by them and you shared this since I'm just up the 57 from them. I've been fascinated by your 3D printing and the gear boxes, and now this is great too. Thank you!
Dry lube next time maybe. I assume the gears are slipping because of the rod deflecting in the middle? Or because of spacing?
How about thrust bearings between the gears? That would probably help.
Nice one Ian I just said this
He used drylube🙂
He is already using dry lube but he didn't let it dry.
Herringbone gear tooth shaping should prevent any axial loading from happening.
This was a dry lube, albeit he never let it dry. It's also known as one of the very worst lubes in the bike industry😂
Use spacers. You’re getting a LOT of friction from the gears touching
Especially for the First and Last Gearwheels.
Try PTFE Washers
Try Ballbearings in your Stand
Trust me, I m German
We dont have Humor but we can Drink beer, sorry, we can do engineer ing
Or if this somehow goes far enough, thrust bearings between the gears
Spacer shuld conekt two rods togheter, les friktion les rods deflektion stable gears conektion
The double herringbone gears will index themselves without spacers.
Torrington bearing/washers, and mid shaft support to stop deflection on the shafts outwards
Man, I really appreciate how long this has been going. Most people would just brush off people doubting your design or questioning the legitimacy of your attempts with this and throw math in our faces about why you actually did do your best. Instead you just keep iterrating this design and making it more efficient.
One suggestion, if I may, is the grip of the handle really optimal? That is to say, the point the sticks out toward you, not the bar perpendicular to the machine. Your hand keeps gravitating toward it, and I think causes the force you're exerting on the machine to be misaligned, causing energy loss and also making it a lot easier to break the handle. It may have also been the source of some of those stutters in this test. Perhaps making the grip larger so you can hold it firmly in your hand would be better?
In addition to this suggestion, I would suggest placing the grip on roller bearings so your hand can remain firmly on the handle. Exerting constant and consistent force.
@@dustinkeier9176 I third it, and honestly, there's something I noticed. I'd say also add a free-spinning grip around the handle, for his grip to better move around the box itself. some of the stutter is from him stopping to adjust his grip, and might be allieviated if, rather than having to adjust his grip, he can keep going by having the grip semi-freely rotating around the handle.
Due to the speed of the grip, a ball centered on the lever would work just fine. You'd have to readjust your grip every few seconds, which isn't an issue unless you have arthritis.
I'm so glad to see this finally be attempted, I'm sure there's other video's out there. But I haven't seen any. Definitely going to follow progress!
3:12 This is my kingdom come
this is my kingdom come
I was looking for this comment
I dont think the gears are at fault for the slipping. I think its rather the stiffness of the setup thats to blame. Maybe try a steel carrige and shorter axil lengths. This with a metal handel should be able to give you much higher speeds and input torque. There are also a lot of good lubing and bearing advice in the comments.
You should maybe include some trays for the lubricant and a splash shield to keep it on the gears. You should also rig a timing counter to determine how fast your last gear is moving, and see if there is a max output or point of diminishing returns
It looks like the torque on the gears is flexing the shafts allowing them to separate and slip. You likely need an intermediate support every 3 gears or so to keep the gears from separating and slipping. Cool design, keep up the good work and have fun.
Axels not stiff enough needs more support inbetween, especially where the highest torque is transmitted.
Also put it in an acrylic casing and submerge about a teeth of the bigger gears in oil and make a structure on the lid that will drip the oil from the case down on the gears.
Suggestion for no. 1 : individual axels and support with screws connecting the corresponding gear pairs, this means you can separate the gears and get your needed support structures, while also helping out with alignment adjustments and customfit design.
Edit: spelling of torque
Or just add plates in between the gears that hold the shafts together
@@Pawer8 They should be connected to the base, as one axle will be torqued outwards and down, while the other gets torqued outwards up. This effect does stack with each consecutive gear and due to good old Pythagoras we know that if the horizontal distance and the vertical distance grows, so does the hypotenuse. Another thing is vibration nodes, the more the axles can "wobble about" the worse the damage gets.
@@EnraEnerato doesnt matter. As long as the distance between axles is the same the gears will mesh properly. They could swap places and it would still work
tork
@@wompastompa3692 I meant Nm which is not incorrect.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_(disambiguation)
Edit: I just noticed you meant that I worte tork instead of torque, the way you pointet it out I understood you meant I should write that. Guess I should not write on mobile when tired, especially not with the German auto correct on, it doesn't like writing English and kind off breaks. I'll go correct it now.
3:11 don't say the word
Cum
Cum...,
cum
@@liticanealright you have gone too far prepare to go to jail
Cum
Imagine this running under water
Some sort of thrust washers in between the gears will take away a lot of friction, and would allow you to make the spacing set in place, which would help the gears not to skip as much
Finally, someone spun one the other way
Would it help by stepping through the gears so you start closer to the output gear and slowly build up speed by working back so there’s less of a sudden acceleration and it instead more gradual
How fast can it go? What is the limit?
“the day before they called me I actually purchased a 3d printer”
*i always feel like somebody watching me*
Thank you for content.
What if you applied the force of the gearbox into a spring? (like the springs from a truck) Could you store the energy for future use and hook the gearbox to a generator for electricity? How much power/weight could the gearbox and spring effectively store?
why so complicated. Sandbag and a rope. Just have to turn it to pull the sandbag up, and then let gravity give you back your energy.
@@TV4ELP thinking the same thing. On condition you have a high elevation. Connect a dynamo and i see a potential energy source for people with no direct electricity supply.
@@TV4ELP A spring from a truck can hold a lot more weight and power per volume. If it holds enough power it could help store wind/solar power.
"press fit".... *proceeds to smack it with a hammer*
Big part missing in the video is the 'why'. What is the end goal here? Hard to make suggestions without knowing what we're working towards.
I love your press by the way …true classic I have the fancy press that come in all shapes and sizes
Try talc or graphite not wet lube
The gears need to go from very skinny to progressively thicker to withstand the torque. This way the later gears will impart less friction too. Are you already using vapor smoothing on the 3D prints?
After 30 ads I finally can access this video
LOL XD
I have a lot of suggestions to make this work. But the most important are spacers between the bearings and plates between the shafts. Also make them wider and more angled.
Use hydrodynamic bearings for the faster gears
Good things to have :
Different thickness of gears
Add a flywheel
Spacers
+4 bearings on stand
Rolling handle
Testing purpose :
Rod spacing bracket, with an adjustable screw
Hollowed gears
Messing around with the solidity of the gears might help, yeah. If we’re going for speed, focusing the weight near the axle would probably be ideal, but you want to make sure it’s solid enough in certain areas to not break.
FASTER FASTER
Widen mount, add bearings to drive shafts(gear assembly axles), create casing to prevent gear oils mess, connect all corresponding gears by double roller chains. Add thrush bearings between individual gear sets on axles. Spline input shaft and crank handle to press on and make handle longer and add wide legs to base/fluid casing assembly to account for longer crank length.
I don't know why I got this video in my recommended list but it's cool, I really enjoyed watching this.
after all your genius you forget to add gear oil , it works better lol lol
You should try putting spacers between the gear, like others have repeatedly mentioned to reduce the bend in the rods. Putting a .4-.6mm spacer that is connected to the base will significantly reduce the possibility of the gears slipping. I know you can integrate the spacers without much remodeling of the gears because you already have a .2-.3mm gap between each gear. Slightly widening the smaller inset gear would allow more room for a slightly bigger spacer, which makes the spacer stronger and reduces the possibility of flex further.
Also, maybe try turning the gears the other way, inwardly, like a shredder, because when you rotate the gears outwardly, the lube is getting thrown off the gears, thus wasting lube. It's just something I noticed where you could save some time and money.
Needle bearing seems like they would work better in this application. The smaller size of the bearing element will also allow you to use a thicker main shaft which should improve rigidity. Also getting better tolerances between the shaft and bearing should help with friction. As for the gear slipping it seems like the backlash/slop on the gears in the center due to the torque spreading the shafts where they are least supported. So either a thicker shaft like suggested, support ribs in the middle, or some zig-zag alignment bracket.
You should just get a C-clamp and 3D print some holders for the bearing as hammering them on like you did is a big non-no.
It's soo cool!!
You have the right idea with the teeth. The shape of the teeth prevents them from being bent backwards.
Finally someone did what you should do and secure it to a table and add a crank on the end.
I see alot of space between the bearings and the shaft i would try and make a little shim so it would fit snuggly and also i would remove the dust barrier from the bearings and remove the grease and just put in some silicone spray lubricant, it removes a lot of friction from the system, because these bearings are designed to work for years and not the least friction.
Since in use you only rotate the handle clockwise, you have an easy option for a drive mechanism. Cut left hand threads on the handle end of the drive shaft. Thread a LH nut onto the shaft to the end of the threads. You can then use a conventional wrench as a crank. If fact, use a socket and a torque wrench and get torque data for the system. That will help in design refinement.
Nice to see you actually read and use comments, I recommended a chevron gear instead of straight.
Try experimenting with tooth profile and gear width - towards the handle, you need larger, wider teeth to handle torque, while at the end they need to be as small as possible to reduce friction.
Not sure if someone has mentioned this but good old VW transaxles used progressively sized gears as it went from high gear to 1st. 1st being almost twice as thick and 4th. So you can apply much more torque to the input gears and make the output gears much thinner and lighter... :)
That's a great visual for how a transfer case works in a 4wd truck
FINALLY someone who used the other end of the gear reduction cycle, man...most of them just say "if I would spin the other side the gears wouldn't even move because of friction bla bla bla". Thanks for awnsering an doubt of mine if gears can be used as "feeders" rather than only reduction.
Lovely to see that vibration in faster wheels.
Gearbox was awesome😎
Use the gears as positive molds for a ceramic negative mold and then pour aluminium or brass and don't use ball bearings, use lubricating rods with small gaps with the gears and pump grease into it so it stays with low friction
Both rods are supported with 2 holes on each end. I think that adding a third, thicker support, in the middle would help the gears to not distance themselves from each other.
I would say that scaling down the gears and making them alot smoother would be the ticket here. Shrinking them down primarily to decrease the rotational mass, however this may reduce the amount of strength each tooth may have, so adding some strength to each tooth may need to be necessary.
This Gears Just Like Shredder
Everyone knows that getting Bawls when at Microcenter is the superior decision.
As the speed of the gears is increased rotational force becomes to great for the gear teeth to keep their contact, try adding a connecting rod between the input and out put shaft. Transmissions use a the housing to accomplish this.
The gear housing should have an interim spacer half way through to prevent play in the rods. Also using bearings in the housing will also reduce friction at these points.
One suggestion I have is to make the low torque gears smaller and lighter, also possibly some bronze shims between the gears and going over the teeth with sandpaper, remember the teeth don’t just push on each other they also slide and the less friction there the faster they’ll go. Good work so far very interesting
Good luck bro 👍
wow unlike other people, your viewers actually have good ideas
Bearings, Teflon slip washers, etc. all of those things are your best friend.
Microcenter is amazing.
You are Great engineer, i love engineering👨🔧😃🥰❤😎👍
I love it. Kind of scary. With gears, we can break the light-speed barrier. We just need adamantium gears, and the power of a small sun.
or the power of very large sun😳🤯
You can power it from the weight of my ex's lies.
YAAAASSSS MICRO CENTER!!!!!!!!
4:50 AYYYY MY MAN KNOWS THE BEST FLAVOUR!
Watched this vid 3 times over, and speaking as a Technician i can say you got most of the major issues out of the way. Now you main issue with the gears gripping and skipping comes down to accuracy and alignment.
Since the gears are filament "printed" there WILL be some deflection and warping as they cool. So as with most parts I'd suggest giving the sides a very light grind so they are more parallel to each other and once they are, Bore out the hole for the bearings so it will be at a 90 degree angle to the sides, this should reduce your vibrations and make the gears run better as there will be less deflection while spinning on the axel.
I love the Micro Center in Michigan. That where my family gets the very reliable PowerSpec computers from. The computer I have is the 4th computer we bought form there and our 3rd 8 year old computer is still functioning and reliable although it’s hard drive is original and most likely dying so going to clone it onto a 2.5 SATA SSD soon.
Great video! A word of advice… Dry lube is meant to be applied and then supposed to dry on the gears! That way you don’t have to keep re applying.
reduce the distance from 76mm to maybe 75.5mm, have spacers between gears and between the first and last gear and the stand. just the reduction in those high friction areas will improve it so much. also the rod/axle might be bending, have a support between the axles like the spacer you used to measure the gear fit but much narrower.
Tell Microcenter they need to build a store in SW Washington. I would love to have a store that I could go buy 3D printers and supplies at.
Closest one is likely in Denver like it is for me, here in Boise 😬
Nother tip: Add spacers to the bearings so that the bearing's inner ring is aligned all the way through and friction between the bearing and rod is reduced, because I'm looking at it and the bearings are just moving along with the gears instead of the outer ring mover independently of the inner ring. Also add some bearing lubricant or just super lube. Source: Am a skamteborder.
lived just outside of denver and had a micro center to enjoy... moved to tampa, fl and the nearest micro center is in atlanta, ga... /cry
You should also use a bearing press when installing the gears. Using a hammer damages the bearings, or at least malforms them and/or prevents them from being properly aligned between the shaft and the gear.
Further improvements: some kind of spacer so gears aren’t rubbing against one another, and only touching at the teeth. Or sanding the flat sides of the gears to reduce friction.
75.5mm spacing and a centre support for the mount might help. I rebuild truck gearboxes if it's any consolation but you'll need to play with your spacing between the two shafts 0.1mm can make all the difference between success and failure just like setting your bearing load on the real thing, 3thou is all the tolerance you get before complete destruction or perfection
Spacer and alignment between each gear. This will also keep the gears from spreading away from each other.
2:59 caption really said [Laughter] and 3:16 [Applause] 😂
try putting stabelizers between the rods in the middle to prevent them from bending outwards so the gears won't slip
That last gear: 🎵im on my way from still to terminal today, uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh wooooooo🎵
You could probably make the gear spacer more of a cone shape that expands from 75 mm(at the handle) to 76 mm(at the other end) to further reduce slipping.
Another thing that can help is for you to make the gears lighter in weight as they get further from the handle.
how could You MAKE the GEARS LIGHTER!?!?!?!?
and HOW SOMEONE FOUND YOUR COMMENT!?!?!?!?
Just a thought, use dry bearings with a few drops of a lightweight lubricating oil in each one, the grease contained in bearings as a rule although is quite lubricidous is actually quite high friction.
I live in so cal and I haven’t heard of this store. I’ll have to check it out
Best computer store imo! Very popular for building custom PCs
I'm not sure if you designed these gears or got them online, but you should be able to find the exact spacing the gears should be from each other by finding the average pitch diameter between the larger gear and the smaller gear. you can find the pitch diameter of each gear with this formula: (N*p)/π, where N is the number of teeth on the gear, and p is the circular pitch. Circular pitch can be found by measuring from a point on one tooth to the corresponding point on the next tooth.
For the handle if you weld a nut onto the shaft you would be able to just use a 1/2 inch drive rachet or even an impact driver, but that would obviously be overkill. But it would work.
If there's a way to add multiple cranks or design a shifter, could get the lower gears up to speed first then start going down to gears with more torque and more in the chain when everything's already moving and its a bit easier to add more force
two tricks: remove bearing's dust covers, wash in petrol to remove grease, they'll have way less drag in this low load application, the grease is useful only when they run with high radial loads. Rollerblade professional bearings are a good place to looc for very high ABEC index. Next trick: make gears lighter and lighter down the line, they will have less and less torque on them, while the structural weight on the fastest ones is what limits your ability to acelerate them.
Make the helical angle more steep, so the self aligning gets more aggressive
Awesome
You might as well consider using the desgin of a bicycle pedal for the handle. Also, you might consider using small metal balls near the outer end of each gear.
When the faster gears are turning the gear spacing and alignment change. You need more shaft supports throughout it.
It'd be really interesting to see a heat view of the gearbox using infrared
that would actually help to figure out where the most friction is too.
It's appears you lose a lot of energy when stops to pull the pulley. Maybe friction is the problem, a some comments suggests improvements in this point, but I think that whould be interesting that you get some kind of a heavy flywheel to attach in the speedy side. It will help you to maintain the energy.
your voice sounds so calm
Herringbone gears were designed to avoid axial loads on shafts, reduce noise and have better wear characteristics than a conventional spur gear; the better solution (and why you don't see herringbone-style gears today used very often; they are relegated mostly to very high loads and moderate RPM applications), was simply to use compound (clustered) spiral gears with each half of the gear cluster spiral direction running in opposition to self-balance the axial load. Running the gears clusters together on the same shaft begs for spacers to be used between the gear clusters (or otherwise controlling axial gear spacing on the shaft). Have fun!
Looks like a support in the middle to ease the flex in your axles might help.
i just love that the gears are spitting lube all over the table
Another think you could do is instead of tooth gears only go with a chain. That's how monster trucks are able to turn those giant wheels.
Instead of 2-4 points of contact, you now have almost the entire half of a gear being used
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