Hi Kevin. Great video. I'm now living in Japan and have been learning Japanese for a while so I have a theory on the masu form debacle. I believe it's for practical purposes. My theory as to why it starts with the masu form first is that in some situations, using the dictionary form in real life can be seen as very rude. Most textbooks seem to start with masu form (Genki, Minna no Nihongo, Japanese for busy people, etc), at least the 3 or so that I am aware of. In Japanese, the masu form is more polite. You use it in business, but also when addressing someone older or of higher social status (with the exception of your family members) than you. You also use it with strangers (adult strangers at least). You only use the dictionary form with people that you know VERY well (friends, significant others, family members), co-workers of lower status than you (managers use it to their staff for example) and when talking to kids (even kids you don't know). So BASICALLY, if you're a foreigner going to Japan, you are almost certainly a stranger to everybody (unless you have family in Japan, or a Japanese friend). And since you would be interacting with adults mostly, it is far more appropriate to use the masu form with them, at least until you can befriend them. Therefore, it's better from the perspective of practical speaking usage to start with masu form. You can start talking to people almost straight away without having to worry about causing offense. I realize now, that someone else has already touched on this in the comments, so this may be a bit irrelevant, but I wanted to share this anyway. Keep up the good work!
Hey, thanks for your answer. I think it makes sense what you say. If the dictionary and masu were both taught, maybe students would mix up (?). So if they don't know it, there's no chance of it happening! Thanks for your input :)
My theory as to why it starts with masu form rather than the dictionary form is that as it's aimed at business situations you'll probably need to know this level of politeness quite well. Also, I think learning past tense is much easier for masu form. I really enjoyed your review!
In Genki it starts with masu form and ru, u verbs. Later on (chapter 7 if I remember), the short form is introduced. It's also used to say I think that... If my memory is correct. In the end I'd say we have a good grasp of beginner Japanese. But the book is really made for students who are in a class with a teacher. A lot of excercises are designed to be made in pairs/groups.
@@dayday7844 That seems like the best way to do it in the long run! And also I feel like if you're looking up the translation of a verb, you'll find the infinitive forms so if you know how to go from the ru form to the desired tense, it's much easier. Although I guess you can just look at the conjugation table! ahah
Hi Kevin! Great review :-) I agree with many of the points you raise in this review and hope it will be useful for other Japanese learners. I teach using Japanese for Busy People 1 on my group courses, and until this year used Japanese for Busy People 2 (I'm phasing it out...) I really like Japanese for Busy People 1 and consider it to be the best beginner textbook. I agree with you that there are too many "copy out this sentence and switch out one word" exercises and that they are a bit pointless (because of this, I made a lot of materials to give students practice that actually tests their understanding). My main criticism of JBP1 is that it's often possible for the student to complete the written exercises without understanding the language being used at all. Obviously this is a big flaw. All in all I think JBP1 is a great beginner book, especially for the casual learner and in a classroom environment. I have some bigger reservations about JBP2, and don't particularly recommend it for self-study. The Minna no Nihongo and Genki series are more comprehensive and for self-study you might want to check them out if you haven't already. As a Japanese teacher, I prefer students to learn -masu forms first, in the hope that -masu forms will be the forms they use more often! The intro to 'Busy People 1' talks about the -masu form as a form that can be used in a wide variety of situations without causing offence, and for this reason I am very much in favour of students learning it before plain forms. Once we cover dictionary forms, I ask students to try and learn dictionary forms and -masu forms as pairs (食べます→食べる、帰ります→帰る etc） This seems to work reasonably well. Some students find conjugating between plain forms and other conjugations easier than starting with -masu form. Personally, I don't think one is harder than the other, but it seems to be a fairly common opinion, so I try to take that into account! Do you think conjugating from dictionary form to other forms is easier? If so, why? がんばってね 🙂 - Fran
I so wanted you to hear your opinion about this textbook because I knew you used it in your Japanese courses! :D. I definitely agree that you can complete virtually all activities without understanding anything. It really doesn't make sense ahah. What made you decide to use JFBP instead of Genki or minna no nihongo for example? I'd be interested to know because I have attended a Japanese course in the past and the teacher used JFBP (although she never used it in class, it was more for homework) As for the -masu/dictionary form, do you think there's one that makes more sense to start with for people that want to reach complete fluency in Japanese? Or maybe it doesn't matter? I'm asking because I think your courses are for beginnner to intermediate learners so maybe your students just want to be conversational and that might affect how you plan your lessons? That's simply an assumption I have, I obviously don't know your students or how you structure your courses :). As for your final question, maybe I find it easier to know the dictionary form because that's how we traditionally learn conjugation in romance languages (my native languages are French and Portuguese). So maybe that's how my brain has been conditioned? But I don't have enough knowledge of Japanese to be able to say which one is better to get started with conjugation
@@KevinAbroad Like your previous teacher, I also barely use the book in class. It's for self-study and for students to look things up. I did used to use Genki 1 in group classes, but it can be expensive (about £45). Japanese for Busy People 1 is usually around £15, so it's a lot more accessible. As a teacher, I really like the Minna no Nihongo series and I use in a lot in one-to-one lessons - but it's all in Japanese, which is intimidating for beginners. And the main textbook doesn't have any explicit grammar explanations. So it doesn't really fit beginner students' needs. There is a separate grammar & translation book which is available in English, but I don't want to ask students to buy a main textbook AND a grammar explanation book in English...especially when we don't particularly use the textbook in class! As for -masu/dictionary, I don't personally think it's easier to study one or the other first. To gain fluency you need to master both. Which one should come first depends on the short-term priorities and interests of the individual student. If you're into grammar, dictionary form is more useful in the long term...but a student who wants to learn some basic Japanese to survive on holiday (for example) should absolutely prioritise -masu forms. Does that make sense? - Fran
PS are you familiar with this channel? It matches the old version of Busy People, which means it makes for great supplementary listening practice :) ruclips.net/channel/UCgQPEyTcjyPGwTd8BuE_7kA
@@stepupjapanese Yes it makes absolute sense, thank you so much for taking the time to reply :). I can totally relate to how frustrating the price of textbook can be. They really are expensive some of them. Cheers!
I’m considering taking a Japanese course and they use the 3 volumes of this book, plus Minna no Nihongo and Marugoto Chukyu. Do you think it will be worth it ? I’m learning for business since I want to be a translator.
Great video, thank you! What do you recommend - the kana version or the romanized version? I'm not really sure which one to get... I am a beginner, but I have learned Hiragana over the past few weeks. I haven't started on Katakana yet, though. Which one do you recommend?
There kind of is! It's called An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese and is published by Japan Times as a follow-up to Genki 2. I studied using this book (after Genki 2) and liked it a lot.
Easy? Really? So conjugating verbs that seem to have dozens of forms is easy? eg: たべる… Plain form, polite form, te form, conditional form, volition all form, imperative form…EASY?
Hi Kevin. Great video.
I'm now living in Japan and have been learning Japanese for a while so I have a theory on the masu form debacle. I believe it's for practical purposes.
My theory as to why it starts with the masu form first is that in some situations, using the dictionary form in real life can be seen as very rude. Most textbooks seem to start with masu form (Genki, Minna no Nihongo, Japanese for busy people, etc), at least the 3 or so that I am aware of. In Japanese, the masu form is more polite. You use it in business, but also when addressing someone older or of higher social status (with the exception of your family members) than you. You also use it with strangers (adult strangers at least). You only use the dictionary form with people that you know VERY well (friends, significant others, family members), co-workers of lower status than you (managers use it to their staff for example) and when talking to kids (even kids you don't know).
So BASICALLY, if you're a foreigner going to Japan, you are almost certainly a stranger to everybody (unless you have family in Japan, or a Japanese friend). And since you would be interacting with adults mostly, it is far more appropriate to use the masu form with them, at least until you can befriend them.
Therefore, it's better from the perspective of practical speaking usage to start with masu form. You can start talking to people almost straight away without having to worry about causing offense.
I realize now, that someone else has already touched on this in the comments, so this may be a bit irrelevant, but I wanted to share this anyway.
Keep up the good work!
Hey, thanks for your answer. I think it makes sense what you say. If the dictionary and masu were both taught, maybe students would mix up (?). So if they don't know it, there's no chance of it happening!
Thanks for your input :)
My theory as to why it starts with masu form rather than the dictionary form is that as it's aimed at business situations you'll probably need to know this level of politeness quite well. Also, I think learning past tense is much easier for masu form.
I really enjoyed your review!
That makes sense! I wonder whether they maybe teach the infinitive in the other books of the series?
Thanks for your comment!
Thank you so much for your review, it helped me a lot!
😊😊
お疲れ様でした！
In Genki it starts with masu form and ru, u verbs. Later on (chapter 7 if I remember), the short form is introduced. It's also used to say I think that... If my memory is correct. In the end I'd say we have a good grasp of beginner Japanese. But the book is really made for students who are in a class with a teacher. A lot of excercises are designed to be made in pairs/groups.
When I say it startd with masu... We are introduced to dictionary forms and how to change u and ru verbs into -masu.
@@dayday7844 That seems like the best way to do it in the long run! And also I feel like if you're looking up the translation of a verb, you'll find the infinitive forms so if you know how to go from the ru form to the desired tense, it's much easier. Although I guess you can just look at the conjugation table! ahah
Hi Kevin! Great review :-) I agree with many of the points you raise in this review and hope it will be useful for other Japanese learners.
I teach using Japanese for Busy People 1 on my group courses, and until this year used Japanese for Busy People 2 (I'm phasing it out...)
I really like Japanese for Busy People 1 and consider it to be the best beginner textbook. I agree with you that there are too many "copy out this sentence and switch out one word" exercises and that they are a bit pointless (because of this, I made a lot of materials to give students practice that actually tests their understanding). My main criticism of JBP1 is that it's often possible for the student to complete the written exercises without understanding the language being used at all. Obviously this is a big flaw.
All in all I think JBP1 is a great beginner book, especially for the casual learner and in a classroom environment. I have some bigger reservations about JBP2, and don't particularly recommend it for self-study.
The Minna no Nihongo and Genki series are more comprehensive and for self-study you might want to check them out if you haven't already.
As a Japanese teacher, I prefer students to learn -masu forms first, in the hope that -masu forms will be the forms they use more often! The intro to 'Busy People 1' talks about the -masu form as a form that can be used in a wide variety of situations without causing offence, and for this reason I am very much in favour of students learning it before plain forms.
Once we cover dictionary forms, I ask students to try and learn dictionary forms and -masu forms as pairs (食べます→食べる、帰ります→帰る etc） This seems to work reasonably well.
Some students find conjugating between plain forms and other conjugations easier than starting with -masu form. Personally, I don't think one is harder than the other, but it seems to be a fairly common opinion, so I try to take that into account! Do you think conjugating from dictionary form to other forms is easier? If so, why?
がんばってね 🙂
- Fran
I so wanted you to hear your opinion about this textbook because I knew you used it in your Japanese courses! :D.
I definitely agree that you can complete virtually all activities without understanding anything. It really doesn't make sense ahah.
What made you decide to use JFBP instead of Genki or minna no nihongo for example? I'd be interested to know because I have attended a Japanese course in the past and the teacher used JFBP (although she never used it in class, it was more for homework)
As for the -masu/dictionary form, do you think there's one that makes more sense to start with for people that want to reach complete fluency in Japanese? Or maybe it doesn't matter? I'm asking because I think your courses are for beginnner to intermediate learners so maybe your students just want to be conversational and that might affect how you plan your lessons? That's simply an assumption I have, I obviously don't know your students or how you structure your courses :).
As for your final question, maybe I find it easier to know the dictionary form because that's how we traditionally learn conjugation in romance languages (my native languages are French and Portuguese). So maybe that's how my brain has been conditioned? But I don't have enough knowledge of Japanese to be able to say which one is better to get started with conjugation
@@KevinAbroad Like your previous teacher, I also barely use the book in class. It's for self-study and for students to look things up.
I did used to use Genki 1 in group classes, but it can be expensive (about £45). Japanese for Busy People 1 is usually around £15, so it's a lot more accessible.
As a teacher, I really like the Minna no Nihongo series and I use in a lot in one-to-one lessons - but it's all in Japanese, which is intimidating for beginners. And the main textbook doesn't have any explicit grammar explanations. So it doesn't really fit beginner students' needs. There is a separate grammar & translation book which is available in English, but I don't want to ask students to buy a main textbook AND a grammar explanation book in English...especially when we don't particularly use the textbook in class!
As for -masu/dictionary, I don't personally think it's easier to study one or the other first. To gain fluency you need to master both. Which one should come first depends on the short-term priorities and interests of the individual student. If you're into grammar, dictionary form is more useful in the long term...but a student who wants to learn some basic Japanese to survive on holiday (for example) should absolutely prioritise -masu forms. Does that make sense?
- Fran
PS are you familiar with this channel? It matches the old version of Busy People, which means it makes for great supplementary listening practice :)
ruclips.net/channel/UCgQPEyTcjyPGwTd8BuE_7kA
@@stepupjapanese Yes it makes absolute sense, thank you so much for taking the time to reply :).
I can totally relate to how frustrating the price of textbook can be. They really are expensive some of them.
Cheers!
I’m considering taking a Japanese course and they use the 3 volumes of this book, plus Minna no Nihongo and Marugoto Chukyu. Do you think it will be worth it ? I’m learning for business since I want to be a translator.
Might it be useful looking up the infinitive forms yourself & adding them as notes in the book?
I'm 27 and while it will be difficult, I want to try and learn. Is this better to start with than Genki? I want to pick the right book.
I've never used genki so I can't answer this for sure :(. I've used Japanese From Zero which I think is better suited for complete beginners
Great video, thank you! What do you recommend - the kana version or the romanized version? I'm not really sure which one to get... I am a beginner, but I have learned Hiragana over the past few weeks. I haven't started on Katakana yet, though. Which one do you recommend?
Kana for sure! But you need to learn them first :)
Good info. I always wished there was an official Genki 3. 1 & 2 really connected with me.
I have yet to try genki!
There kind of is! It's called An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese and is published by Japan Times as a follow-up to Genki 2. I studied using this book (after Genki 2) and liked it a lot.
I cannot find the solutions for the exercises In my book. - can someone help me please?☹️
What edition do you have?
日本語は実は簡単です。二つの構造しかありません。それは「必要な名詞文」と「動詞」です。全ての文章は二つの要素からできています。二つだけです！！
Easy? Really? So conjugating verbs that seem to have dozens of forms is easy? eg: たべる… Plain form, polite form, te form, conditional form, volition all form, imperative form…EASY?