How To Design an Expansion Card System | Product Development Series - Episode 2

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  • Опубликовано: 12 дек 2024

Комментарии • 154

  • @NochSoEinKaddiFan
    @NochSoEinKaddiFan Год назад +144

    I REALLY like the presentation style! From the presenter personally, the choice of background music and the cutting and animation. It just flows in a nice, steady, engaging pace that leaves you more informed and in a better mood than before. Stelar job!

  • @Arcky-ykcrA
    @Arcky-ykcrA Год назад +149

    If possible, will there be a double Type C expansion card?

    • @raffskid857
      @raffskid857 Год назад +31

      A fan made one, but it’s not possible to have PD or usb 3 with either of em

    • @linuxsbc
      @linuxsbc Год назад +24

      That's not possible. For it to be fully featured, it would need a full USB4 hub, which is very large and expensive-not possible for an expansion card. Limiting it to USB2, though, might work, though it would significantly limit the capabilities of the ports (no DisplayPort, no PCIe, limited to ~.5 Gbps compared to 40Gbps, etc.). You then run into the issue of charging. Both ports need to somehow pass through PD negotiation to the host port, but they would also need to ensure that, when both are plugged in, only one of them can negotiate. This needs to somehow interact with the USB2 hub, which then requires custom silicon.
      Basically, for it to work how you might expect is impossible. For a hugely limited version that loses most of the advantages of USB-C, it would be extremely difficult and require a ton of time and money from Framework. Thus, it probably won't ever happen.

    • @amirpourghoureiyan1637
      @amirpourghoureiyan1637 Год назад +16

      @@raffskid857 surely you could get a small USB3 chip used on a raspberry pi and have two gen1 speed USB C ports on a module?

    • @alex_jellymath
      @alex_jellymath Год назад +27

      @@linuxsbc While it would be nice to support USB3 or more, double USB2 might be good enough for things like connecting keyboard and mouse

    • @linuxsbc
      @linuxsbc Год назад +10

      @@amirpourghoureiyan1637 The USB3 chip on the Raspberry Pi 4 uses PCIe, not USB. Thunderbolt does carry PCIe, but the conversion is large and expensive (and probably power-hungry, considering the heat sinks I see, but I don't have good evidence for that). You also still have the problem of PD.

  • @erickleefeld4883
    @erickleefeld4883 9 месяцев назад +2

    It’s really clever how this has flipped around the idea of external dongles: The expansion card is really a USB-C dongle, but made into a system that works internally for the laptop and accessible to the user.

  • @ryanhamstra49
    @ryanhamstra49 Год назад +8

    Met some of the team at LTX and got to play with the product. I’m sold. Quality feeling product, best trackpad I’ve felt short of the MacBooks, and love the modularity and reusability.

  • @matthieulucas9059
    @matthieulucas9059 Год назад +61

    Hi Framework folks! I'd recommend lowering the volume of the music a bit, towards 5:37 it starts to get a bit distracting. But I LOVE the concept of these videos, please keep this series going for as long as you can! I'm a software engineer, so getting to know what goes into what my hardware colleagues go is super interesting.

  • @sheryl3268
    @sheryl3268 Год назад +23

    Gotta love that modularity!

  • @davidboesen4400
    @davidboesen4400 Год назад +59

    I’m so glad this series is here! I already have my FW 16 preordered, and it is just even more exciting to see how this all comes together!

  • @russellbaker4256
    @russellbaker4256 Год назад +3

    You can't please all the (laptop) people *all* of the time. I have a modest 11th gen i5, reflective (I mean glossy) screen, floppy display cover, quieter speakers, smaller battery, bulbous Ethernet card - yet I still love it. I find it really hard to eject the expansion cards, although they have never jolted free. So many _overall_ good design decisions made by the Framework team

  • @larrywebber2971
    @larrywebber2971 Год назад +16

    Hi Framework Team! I have an i-5 gen 12 Framework and couldn't be more pleased with this product. Mine is running Linux flawlessly. Thanks.👍

  • @ericolsen010693
    @ericolsen010693 Год назад +4

    Unsure who the presenter is and her overall role but she's fantastic

  • @Caboose12000
    @Caboose12000 Год назад +1

    subscribing so i dont miss more of these, this series is awesome!

  • @hdtravel1
    @hdtravel1 Год назад +2

    This is a brilliant idea - way better than regular laptops

  • @Kurashinno
    @Kurashinno Год назад +15

    Wow this is remarkable. It's so fun knowing all that goes into this. I never would have imagined it was such a complex process. I really appreciate the enginuity that went into this and I'm so happy to support a company like this in any way possible! Keep it up!

  • @平和-v1z
    @平和-v1z Год назад +1

    Modularity is beautiful!

  • @chromaticvisuelle
    @chromaticvisuelle Год назад +2

    I love this company so much, I would move away to work overseas with them. Such an amazing team!

  • @macjja
    @macjja Год назад +69

    Cool video about the expansion cards, I’ve been wondering how they came to be

  • @3o1j
    @3o1j Год назад +1

    I am loving this series so far! So well put together and incredibly informative. Love getting an inside look on the designing and engineering

  • @v0xl
    @v0xl Год назад +1

    framework will probably be my next laptop

  • @ry6000
    @ry6000 Год назад +2

    I love these so much! It is so cool that not only do we get the full story behind the full size SD card, but also the entire history of the expansion cards themselves. 🤩

  • @Matt-vb6rq
    @Matt-vb6rq Год назад +21

    What are your thoughts on ARM cpus in a framework laptop sometime in the future? @Framework

    • @sub_rapier
      @sub_rapier Год назад +19

      Well my guess is that they see if the Qualcomm X series has serious demand behind it with the other OEMs. Jumping into a first gen product right away might be risky for a small company like framework

    • @richtigmann1
      @richtigmann1 Год назад

      @@sub_rapier Hopefully a few generations when it's more stable!! I'd love that in a laptop

    • @amirpourghoureiyan1637
      @amirpourghoureiyan1637 Год назад +1

      There were rumblings of a community-made Raspberry Pi board for the Framework, but I'm not sure if that got any traction.

  • @thewatcher6933
    @thewatcher6933 Год назад +11

    I love the work you guys are doing i don't need a laptop for now but I'll get a framework when i need one

  • @koijoijoe
    @koijoijoe Год назад +1

    These are so awesome! Awesome editing, and awesome presenter. She has a great voice!

  • @bodoque_csm
    @bodoque_csm Год назад +1

    Product development by itself is such an interesting thing to learn about, but it's even better when it's communicated so well like in this video. Looking forward to the next

  • @kbhasi
    @kbhasi Год назад +3

    (4:49) It's only now that I noticed that the official modules have the Framework logo embossed in on the inner side, which leads me to think of third-party modules having the respective manufacturer or brand logo printed or embossed instead.
    (4:57) I have memories of 3.5" diskettes flying across the floor

    • @replacesoundboard
      @replacesoundboard 8 месяцев назад +1

      Give me an ejecting device and I could play with it all day... until the spring is dead of course

  • @replacesoundboard
    @replacesoundboard 8 месяцев назад +1

    I didn't know I wanted to know how Framework came up with the idea of expansion cards, but that was educational. I wish phones could be as modular as the Framework laptop.

  • @Matelight_IT
    @Matelight_IT Год назад +43

    I wish there was an option to combine 2 (3) expansions, like removing separating wall to make something like big 3x (or 4x) USB expansion, or at least making USB + Jack, or usb c x2

    • @ryanhamstra49
      @ryanhamstra49 Год назад +6

      Yeah. Should be able to fit 2 USB c’s on one input, that would be cool.

    • @Splarkszter
      @Splarkszter 11 месяцев назад +1

      That's actually a really cool idea!

  • @caimano55
    @caimano55 Год назад +1

    Loving these videos guys! You are AWESOME!

  • @brianpichelman182
    @brianpichelman182 Год назад +2

    I like the animation at 0:11 and I was thinking, when the Framework (trochoidal?) gear moves to the left it should spin, so it looks like it is rolling.

  • @Sarge92
    @Sarge92 Год назад +2

    crazy idea here
    but could you guys make a docking station that uses those cards?
    existing framework users could use it to create single cable home work station setups and everyone else could use it to get the dock they want with the ports and features they want

  • @lucasozuna8789
    @lucasozuna8789 Год назад +1

    Imagine this laptop with the new qualcom arm based chip😮

  • @Melchirobin
    @Melchirobin Год назад +2

    Just a suggestion for an update. When in the long future when you all redesign the chassis make the expansion cards a bit wider so you can have 2 usb c ports next to each other on the same expansion card. Then just have an adapter that is able to make sure the old expansion cards can be used with the new design.

  • @sethtime9951
    @sethtime9951 Год назад +5

    Love you guys. I can't wait till I can afford the new AMD 16" that's coming out.

  • @fotmheki
    @fotmheki 8 месяцев назад

    Really like the series, hope new videos will come out

  • @alleycatlordoflunes9689
    @alleycatlordoflunes9689 Год назад +1

    Looking forward to episode 3. I think using a metal plate instead of plastic is a smart way to accomidate the extra mm you need. Let's see what further design choices get made. For example would micro-sd's put in a sd card piece that then gets slotted into an sd card slot cause any trouble. similar to how it works with different size sim cards.

  • @guilhermedamaso3982
    @guilhermedamaso3982 Год назад +1

    Awesome!

  • @makere
    @makere Год назад +2

    Would be nice to see dual expansion cards, like you could probably fit 2x USB-C ports into single module, or 3.5mm headphone jack with ethernet etc.

  • @noo-sho8500
    @noo-sho8500 Год назад +2

    I firmly believe this is a missed opportunity to rely both on USB C as well as either M2 or straight up PCI Express. Though probably for a lean MVP that is too much to ask. But in terms of 16-inch model I really miss being able to plug in an external graphics card (the way Asus almost did).
    Any plans on including an Expansion Bay module with PCI-E?
    Having a module with built in mobile GPU with PCI passthrough to plug in eGPU to achieve desktop performance at the desk and laptop performance in transit would be the real holy grail. I dare to say I'd preorder.

  • @Leron...
    @Leron... Год назад +2

    I love this series.

  • @marcopolos.4630
    @marcopolos.4630 Год назад +1

    Good job with the video! For me the full size sdcard slot is absolutely not necessary because fast adapters with CF, SD a photographer should definitely have. A double Usb-C card would make more sense, even though there is a dedicated charging port (with charging indication LED?). You have the flexibility to write the port type on the outside somewhere.

  • @soviut303
    @soviut303 Год назад +1

    One thing I wish is that the locking bar between the cards could be optionally removed to allow for 2x tall expansions. I realize this could interfere with orientation since plugging into the left would have a port near the top be near the bottom when rotated 180 degrees to plug into the right. Still, there are several use cases for expansions with more real estate that still sit flush in the unit.

  • @intoxicode
    @intoxicode Год назад +9

    I just don't know how you guys figure out how to handle all the PCI lanes for all the USB devices.. especially on the 16, with more ports and graphics card that's something I would definitely like to know..

    • @goviczek
      @goviczek Год назад +4

      Only 2 ports in framework 16 will handle pcie lines ( in the first version at least )

  • @ryanzmuda3167
    @ryanzmuda3167 Год назад +1

    Great job.

  • @TheUnderMasked
    @TheUnderMasked Год назад +1

    There should be display in (hdmi) option

  • @CauseOfBSOD
    @CauseOfBSOD Год назад +5

    just a heads up: the link in the description to sign up to be notified when the sd expansion card launches has gotten mangled somehow and doesn't work

  • @gustersongusterson4120
    @gustersongusterson4120 Год назад

    USB C makes sense over m.2, however we need an oculink solution for external cards and devices. I realize this would be one per device but literally anything more elegant than cutting a slot in the case of a mini pc or laptop would be huge.

  • @kirelagin
    @kirelagin Год назад

    5:40 is slightly puzzling - you are saying that the rails were moved from top to middle, while showing a report that recommends moving them _from middle to top_ due to potential damage. Production cards have the rail in the middle, so, I hope, the alternative mitigation proposal was applied?

  • @PebblesChan
    @PebblesChan Год назад +6

    You need a module to accomodate a legacy LPT parallel port that is addressable at 378, 3BC & 278. 😊

    • @aaronjamt
      @aaronjamt Год назад +2

      Technically, with an MCU like the RP2040 or ATMega32u4, you could set up a USB "parallel port" (with some form of breakout connector) and then use a driver inside your target OS to connect to it as a standard parallel port... I wonder if you could make an oversized module that sticks out of the port and which _does_ actually have a full size port (maybe serial too while you're at it, and possibly PS/2)

    • @0LoneTech
      @0LoneTech Год назад +1

      ​@@aaronjamtThe round trip times of USB make it poorly suited for the sort of bitbanging that was done running e.g. JTAG or 5-bit LapLink/FastLynx/PLIP on the parallel port. With more standard protocols like ECP, you can get away with chips like FT245.

  • @janjansen6263
    @janjansen6263 Год назад +1

    So the initial module tolerance was to tight in the end, I understand that it is difficult to balance between device thickness and modularity, but you are doing a good job, can wait for the 16”, and coreboot exciting stuff

  • @IannoOfAlgodoo
    @IannoOfAlgodoo Год назад +1

    I want other vendors use this kind of system, HOW did no other vendor ever think of such a system... instead of build you system to work with a dock, build a modular dock into your system. genius! :D

  • @rikwisselink-bijker
    @rikwisselink-bijker Год назад +11

    I think it is a really strange choice to have the modules be too small for a LAN cable. It would have allowed so many more tinkerers to have their own projects as well, since size constraints are the most cited obstacle to implement some niche feature or port

    • @guspaz
      @guspaz Год назад +2

      I would have liked to see a flip-down RJ45 jack, like laptops used to have, so that the ethernet expansion module didn't need to protrude so much. This would probably have required a slightly different expansion card design (not sure there's enough room to expand the port downwards as-is), but it could have been taken into account at the start.

  • @remainsmemories626
    @remainsmemories626 Год назад +4

    Just for fun: what is the longest chain of type-c modules that will still carry HDMI/thunderbolt signal without issues?)

  • @flamestoyershadowkill
    @flamestoyershadowkill 2 месяца назад

    An xl card design using two usb c ports that can adapt to two standard cards would bd useful for larger ports that can not fit like dvi, secure card, and compact flash while also allowing for multi port cards like a triple usb a card. Basically allowing for more IO in a snaller package

  • @LIVEWIREMEDIAENT
    @LIVEWIREMEDIAENT 8 месяцев назад

    A stereo loudspeaker module system would be cool ... or wifi 7 card .

  • @larsmurdochkalsta8808
    @larsmurdochkalsta8808 Год назад +1

    Love the idea, and it does work. But at least on my example they're so stiff that If my fingernails are too long they'll easily break well before the card comes out.

  • @A_d_e_k
    @A_d_e_k Год назад +1

    Cool video, keep it up!

  • @KellyWu04
    @KellyWu04 Год назад +3

    You mean expansion cards did not come to Nirav in a vision?

  • @ssssssssssama
    @ssssssssssama Год назад +1

    Weird that I get the urge to get 10 usb-c expansion cards and plug them serially

    • @aratof18
      @aratof18 10 месяцев назад +2

      the natural evolution to stacking markers together

  • @Will-sc3hw
    @Will-sc3hw Год назад +1

    Honestly should have made the standard a few mm larger in all dimensions. Would have saved a lot of future hassle

  • @larryslobster7881
    @larryslobster7881 Год назад

    love this

  • @XA--pb9ni
    @XA--pb9ni Год назад

    If Framewoek had a 14 inch Laptop, i would instantly Buy one! 16 inch is to big and 13 to small

  • @fuseteam
    @fuseteam Год назад +5

    I'm still in love with this system, fully utilizing usb-c. Absolutely love it!
    Tho the ethernet expansion card is my least favorite, tho it is understandable why it became what it became.
    It made me think about __why__ many people need it and if it could be solved from a different angle.
    Like for example, if they are plugging their ethernet cable into a wall plate: what if that wallplate waa a usb-c port instead?

  • @gwenmorse8059
    @gwenmorse8059 9 месяцев назад

    When will we get to see part 3?

  • @Sachew-09mv
    @Sachew-09mv 10 месяцев назад

    I love your laptops :D

  • @BryantCaudill
    @BryantCaudill Год назад

    Loving the content. Only feedback is the amount of cuts in the speaking portions of the video is somewhat distracting, would be better trying to flow longer if possible.

  • @hallowieners
    @hallowieners Год назад

    Got my framework 13 but the expansion cards are so hard to pull out, I need a spudger.

  • @knicknacks
    @knicknacks Год назад

    Is it gonna be at an angle?

  • @evgenius123_
    @evgenius123_ Год назад

    Is it pissoble to make double-port cards with ports what small enough? For example, double type-c?

  • @m.gredemptor2610
    @m.gredemptor2610 Год назад

    Yo when will you putup framework16 parts in the market?

  • @Megawoolf13
    @Megawoolf13 Год назад

    Hey im from the Philippines and i want to get my hands on a framework laptop problem is i cant cause its nott available in my country and im not the only one with this problem many other people wan to get their hands on this great laptop but cant how about u guys start selling on ebay since it already has a good logistics asset and can ship basically anywhere around the world?

  • @ACTION_KRISH
    @ACTION_KRISH Год назад

    When in india alot of us liked this concept and veru curious to use these laptops 🏃🏼🏃🏼🏃🏼

  • @lipidsled
    @lipidsled Год назад

    That views to likes ratio speaks for itself!

  • @CMDRunematti
    @CMDRunematti Год назад

    technically, if it helps, you can just leave out the cover entirely. the laptop isnt waterproof anyway, and one side is covered by the chassis

  • @asmircar1
    @asmircar1 Год назад

    can you plug in expension card into USB-C expension card ?

  • @broccoloodle
    @broccoloodle Год назад

    How would it be better than a 10-in-1 usb hub?

  • @skpuneethkumar
    @skpuneethkumar 11 месяцев назад

    What about desktops ?

  • @myronkipa2530
    @myronkipa2530 Год назад

    How about fitting SD card diagonally?

    • @daskampffredchen
      @daskampffredchen Год назад +3

      The reader itself is to thick. It is a problem of height. So it would only get worse if you tilt it

  • @brssnkl
    @brssnkl 6 месяцев назад

    It's dongles that ppl actually like :D

  • @HoodBoyNO1
    @HoodBoyNO1 6 месяцев назад

    yet still it's one USB-C slot. well done

  • @hugodecotignie3834
    @hugodecotignie3834 Год назад

    idea:if an port is too wide for the expantion card try to put it an an angle

  • @tld8102
    @tld8102 Год назад

    is it uhs2

  • @peri0496
    @peri0496 11 месяцев назад

    Se que no es necesario, pero la verdad en mi vida si lo he necesitado, no se si pueden hacer uno para vga

  • @jonasschade
    @jonasschade Год назад +2

    I love the videos, there are just a bit too many jump cuts for my taste. Or maybe they are just at the wrong moments 🤔
    I usually really don't mind jump cuts. I know from my own experience how difficult it is to speak freely in a video like this, and how long it sometimes takes to get it exactly right. Still, I find it somewhat distracting in your videos. I've been thinking about why this is, and I think it's primarily when the cuts are in the middle of a sentence (see 2:56 & 3:04, for example). I think I would prefer to have a "worse" take, but with the whole sentence.
    Other than that, it's a great series. I love the transparency. Keep it up!

  • @zweiwing4435
    @zweiwing4435 10 месяцев назад

    Why not making Framework 13 same as 16 that can allow to change GPU?

  • @Artificial.Unintelligence
    @Artificial.Unintelligence Год назад +4

    1 major thing you didn't address:
    Q - why are they all a single port instead of multiple (but spec-down) options as well?
    Ie: the USB C or audio jack.. why not also have a dual port or combo ports? You could have a type A/C + audio or dual type C.. dual type A etc.
    Further, if you say it's because of the limitation of the usb-c inside, why isn't there at least 1 of those that has dual internal C connections to dual C external.. basically just a pass through but more space efficient.
    Also, are these rated for higher power USC-C power delivery at like 100/140/200/240W for good portable (power prongs fold and detachable cords) GaN chargers? I'm NOT carrying yet another massive power brick and set of cables.
    --------- Extra
    Stepping away from the adapters:
    Is the battery going to be quick and easily removable like these port dongles? Like, if I want to check my laptop (or multiple) for a flight I still need to carry all the batteries.... I carry at least 3 laptops for work right now and not being able to take out a battery means I'm carrying the WHOLE laptop instead of just the battery....
    ----- PLEASE DONT KEEP YOURSELF OUT OF GOVT OPTIONS -------
    WARNING FOR GOVT CYBER SECURITY USE CASE -
    Make sure that NOTHING shows up as USB mass storage /removable storage because of a bad USB I'd on your dongle things.. also, make sure that by default none of those adapters or anything internal is USB id flagged as a multi media card reader... (except for obviously the SD card reader, but only when actually connected)
    Why?
    USB removable storage and card readers will automatically flag and brick most government computers because they don't want people using external flash storage devices.. even if no actual storage is there, a usb-c hub with a multi card reader will brick almost all of my credentials, my machines, and it takes days to get back and running..

  • @captainpumpkinhead1512
    @captainpumpkinhead1512 Год назад +1

    I would love to make an expansion card to read Nintendo Switch cartridges. That'd be pretty sick!

  • @faultboy
    @faultboy Год назад +1

    Poor VGA Connector is left out 😢

  • @RyouConcord
    @RyouConcord Год назад

    when you guys get a 2-in-1 option or at least a touch screen (with pen support) I will do my damnest to make these things standard in my IT dept.... we all already want it but it's missing those 2 things that we use a LOT. and if they hold up? We're gonna push HARD to get 100's of these for our users. I'm really REALLY sick of unrepairable garbage in our environment. I want these to be the standard.

  • @HH-xf9il
    @HH-xf9il Год назад

    Man, I want to need a laptop

  • @googlesucks6029
    @googlesucks6029 Год назад

    Do you really need the USB C expansion even though it already connects to a USB C port?

    • @rikwisselink-bijker
      @rikwisselink-bijker Год назад +1

      No, but yes. You can use the USB port directly, but if you damage that one, you just lost a port on the motherboard. While if you use a USB-C expansion card, you just damaged that card only.

  • @usermanico
    @usermanico Год назад +1

    A good Video IN card would be awesome to use the laptop screen with another device.
    Or maybe a double expansion card for a video capture card

  • @Cart1416
    @Cart1416 Год назад +1

    it's just usb c, very easy to make one

  • @adnanalam6201
    @adnanalam6201 Год назад

    Dear Framework Make gaming Laptops too😊

  • @piman13_71
    @piman13_71 Год назад

    While I understand why you don’t want them to fire out… all the people with adhd would be keeping there laptop upside down and firing these lol

  • @fnerf0
    @fnerf0 6 месяцев назад

    we need double usb c expansion card

  • @nerdful1
    @nerdful1 Год назад

    Waiting for my 16. 13 is great, bit a bit small, so I use a large monitor at home. Your music level is very distracting. Maybe reduce it 10db or more.

  • @humanendeavours
    @humanendeavours 9 месяцев назад

    Will they discount for south asia

  • @CnCDune
    @CnCDune Год назад

    ...still needed two USB A ports per module instead of one.

  • @xurtis
    @xurtis Год назад

    Just whack some pcmcia slots on there

  • @Empty_Vima
    @Empty_Vima Год назад +1

    All this is useless until it arrives at the masmarket in parts at the market price. So say that big companies and naive people paid to improve their egos. So that you are not like everyone else. 😂😂😂

  • @ryanzmuda3167
    @ryanzmuda3167 Год назад +2

    Why can they just make the sd one stick out more.

    • @EricLidiak
      @EricLidiak Год назад +2

      Hadn't thought of that. That's how the Ethernet card works.