Tom King's GREAT sequel to WATCHMEN! | Rorschach
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- Опубликовано: 3 май 2022
- It's been 35 years since Ozymandias dropped a giant interdimensional squid on New York City, killing thousands and destroying the public's trust in heroes once and for all. And since that time, one figure in a fedora, mask, and trench coat has become a divisive cultural icon. So what does it mean when Rorschach reappears as an assassin trying to kill a candidate running against President Robert Redford? Who is the man behind the mask, and why is he acting this way? It's up to one detective to uncover the true identity of this would-be killer--and it will take him into a web of conspiracies involving alien invasions, disgraced do-gooders, mystic visions, and yes, comic books. Writer Tom King joins forces with artist Jorge Fornés for a new miniseries that explores the mythic qualities of one of the most compelling characters from the bestselling graphic novel of all time, Watchmen. Never miss an episode by subscribing today! bit.ly/2WYvgkt #rorschach #watchmen
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Buy Rorschach on Amazon! amzn.to/3FaAP70
This was an incredible experience to see you tell this story thank you for this.
I realize I am probably not saying anything new but I must reiterate if you remotely enjoyed this you and Ethan in particular seriously should give the Watchmen HBO Miniseries a watch. It’s not just a good or interesting “adaptation” it’s as transformative and relevant now as the original Watchmen comic was in the 80s. It takes the medium of streaming tv to tell a whole unique story that compliments the original and this book! ❤️🙏🏾
Sure , the HC is cheaper than the TPB? I'm in!
*Sal reading those last few pages:* "Why does 'Rorschach' enjoy this pirate movie so much?"
*King writing those pages:* "I gave him a hard time about it, but I really did like Sal's idea of a Predator on a pirate ship. I'll throw this in there, and I hope he gets it."
I appreciate when sal reluctantly admits he misjudged a book and gives it a second try and likes it
It seems to be a theme with Tom King lol, but I suppose getting to talk shop with the guy would give anyone a better appreciation for the work
The reason those episodes always hit so hard is because he tends to, in detail, go over the specific elements that made him change his mind and how his perception changes of things he originally wasn’t a fan of.
@@hrishiv27 well the war of jokes and riddles one it felt like you saw it in real time. Plus Ben and Ethan seemed to geuniely enjoy it and that seemed to shift his perspective
That makes me like him all the more. I like how these people, meaning the crew at Comicpop are firm in their stances and opinions, but don't come across as gatekeeper fans. I admire that. If you like what I like, fine. If you don't like what I like, hey, even better.
Y’all look like an evolutionary chart of facial hair lmao
I know comics are niche but god damn does comicpop deserve more of a following. Back issues is a national treasure
Otto Binder other creations for Superman include Bizarro, Brainiac, Krypto, and legion of superheroes. Dude did a lot.
Mary Marvel of the Captain Marvel/Shazam family was based on his fallen daughter too. He was big at Fawcett and then got brought into DC to basically expand the Super mythos accordingly as he did Captain Marvel
@@saracohle Did over 4,000 stories and those are just the ones we know he got credited for.
If only Ozymandias realized eminently after the attack people would start with "squids can't break concrete"
Surprised no one has mentioned this in the comments yet, but the ending in the movie theater is also a direct reference to the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Pirate brainiac destroys ships, takes the debris and builds bottle sized versions of it
Genius
Watchmen siting on the shelf behind you guys is the closest that book will ever be done on the couch.
Maybe with his parents?
@@ItsOver9000Productions Comics like The Dark Knight Returns and Killing Joke are like babies first Batman. You can sit down and start there without need for too much context. Watchmen is just too layered to sit down with two old people who know nothing about comics and explain to them why this Batman allegory can't get his dick hard. It would take 4 hours.
I mean… It’s Watchmen. It wouldn’t really be something to do in the couch by Ben, Ethan or Tiffany. They’ve all read the comic or seen adaptations and such of the book.
@@mr.goblin6039 Ture but who wouldn't want to listen to their takes on it? Of course, it would be a massive undertaking but maybe they'd consider making it a Patreon exclusive? I'd pay to watch it.
@@mr.goblin6039 I honestly don't care if they do or don't do it, but in the early days of Comic Pop they were hounded like every episode to do it. So, it was more a reference to that.
"What is all this hardcore porn doing here!?" is going on the Sal soundboard.
Man it's a fun nostalgia hit to hear the "it's gonna be rorscahch" story again
Really liked how this comic expanded the Watchmen mythology. Showing how the Squid thing made people insane and question their belifes
Makes you think how normal people in Marvel and DC function with all the big crossover events and end of the world scenarios
There are absolutely cult members that worship Doctor Strange.
@@leomoreno7369 I mean, in 2099 there's a Church of Thor.
Yup, where other Watchmen sequels fail (looking at you Doomsday Clock) is that they try and follow up the story of Watchmen, what makes this work is that it’s, like you said, an expansion, they could’ve tied this story to Veidt and brought in old characters but didn’t, and it works, it gives you enough Watchmen elements to ground the story in that world, but not so much that it impedes on the original
I like it too. This and the TV show made me realize that there's still potential for further continuation even if I'm perfectly fine with the original comment being a one and done story.
Well, now I kind of regret watching this episode *because* it was so great... I won't get to see it for the first time again. Hannah Arendt? Political campaigns? The psychology of cults? I have a doctorate in political science, and I *have to* buy this book now. Thank you!
i remember reading this book month to month and not really grasping what King was doing but I LOOOVED the art so I bought the hardcover and read it cover to cover in one setting and its absolutely brilliant
Same, as a whole it is fantastic.
Paused the video at the 45 minute mark, checked my bank account. Immediately started driving to my local shop. This was way further on the back burner until I started watching the video. Thanks guys!
Sal saying Johns probably doesn’t love Watchmen makes me think of Darwyn Cooke saying he never put Watchmen on a pedestal which is why he didn’t have an issue doing Before Watchmen. He also secured Amanda Conner a job which was one of his demands with agreeing to do it and I do think he has the only Before Watchmen comics worth reading.
Which one did he do?
@@MisterKetch The Minutemen which he wrote and drew and then Silk Spectre which he wrote, but he wanted Amanda Conner to be the artist and didn’t think DC would actually do it. They’re in the same trade and ignore everything else.
@@MisterKetch minutemen and Silk spectre
@@PrototypeNZL Ahhh I should have guessed. Minutemen was the one I really liked and I remember more of silk then any of the other titles
good, glad he didn't
This book is my personal favorite Watchmen "sequel". I just love the noir conspiracy vibes this book gives off and the ambitious meta-ness of it
If you're going to piss directly on Alan Moores face you might as well do it with style
@@exquisitecorpse__ dang, totally crap over someone happiness 😬
@@Peecamarke Imagine being legitimately supportive and respectful of others' opinions on the Internet. Kinda cringe ngl
Haven't witnessed the interview that spawned this episode, I'm glad Sal came around to it. Another brick in the foundation of the Sal-Tom friendship built on the back of Predator.
When this book was coming out I thought, "Oh god, another Watchmen sequel. I'm not fuckin reading that." Now I'm thinking I made a mistake because this story sounds very interesting. Definitely gonna buy.
“I’m not a nerd. I’m a Philistine.”
Lollllll
When my brother saw Alan Tudyk at a convention back when his man con claim to fame was just Firefly. He brought up liking Alan's run on broadway as Lancelot in Spamalot. Sample size 2, but celebs of nerdy stuff seem to like it when you bring up stuff they do besides the most well known.
It’s so cool watching Sal break down these stories knowing that he can talk directly to the writers (especially King)
"I'll try to keep it short with this one"
Love ya Sal 😅
The protagonist just looking like Columbo made me laugh when I first started reading this. With referencing Mark Ruffalo, Gary Whitta always pushes for him to play Ruffalo in the modern day.
Are you a Kinda Funny Best Friend perchance?
@@jasethomas5198 I used to be, but honestly their reviews of movies and TV shows are really bad. They are too contradictory and inconsistent with how they review movies and they just aren’t very smart when it comes to it. I’ll watch certain reviews of games by Kinda Funny and that’s about it now.
Wow. That was riveting. As a massive fan of the original Watchmen I've always automatically dismissed any proposed sequels but you've gone and got me interested massively in this.
Honestly if you even remotely like anything here you will probably enjoy the HBO miniseries. King lifts concepts and the state of the world post squid attack directly from the HBO series. I can’t highly recommend it more.
I had the same reaction as Sal when I read the first issue. I went “what? No. Screw this.” But then, I gave the book a chance once it was done, read the whole thing. Loved it.
I just got to the Batman Vs Predator ep in my in-order watch through the Back Issues Backlog! How fortuitous that I get to hear the Dave Gibbons story two days in a row.
This was one of those comics that you can read each individual issue as it releases and follow the mystery. Then when it’s collected do you get the full scope of the authors intent. It’s good.
I met Dave Gibbons at a Comic Con about 10 years ago and got a Doctor Who comic signed by him.
His reaction to your Batman/Predator poster was the exact same reaction to my Doctor Who comic.
So that was a fun reminder.
That Ditko Kirby Poncius Pirate bit NEEDS to be a short
You have the one reference to the show in the first issue when referring to the Rorschach masks with the examiner saying, “But there's a million of these things. It's a pretty popular costume. Even after Oklahoma." That’s all I remember and King said to promote it how it was the same universe, but Sal is right where it doesn’t matter. It works as a contemporary of the show or just as another sequel to Watchmen.
That’s what makes this and the HBO series so phenomenal they compliment and enhance each other with out getting in the way of each other’s narrative. I seriously think Sal and Ethan need to watch the miniseries now that they have read this!
@@langleymneely The show was much better than it had any right to be honestly. I’m still not a fan of the finale since it felt too easy with everything being tied up nicely and especially what happens with Ozymandias where it wasn’t Watchmen like, but episodes 3, 5, 6, 7, and 8 are all fantastic. Redford as the President would also count as another reference to the show where I just wasn’t considering it even though that’s a pretty big reference.
It's so rare that I'm SO captivated by a book on back issues that I'm genuinely pretty excited to see what happens next. Might have to honestly pick this up, I didn't have any interest in it before this.
Tom King in his interview with Sal saying the protagonist is a Rorschach test himself where you might see Columbo or Mark Ruffalo from Zodiac is insane. I saw Columbo which made me think of Gary Whitta pushing for Ruffalo to play a modern Columbo.
I know there's this, Doomsday Clock, and the Before Watchmen series, but it's too bad Alan Moore didn't make any prequels or sequels to Watchmen himself. He said if Watchmen was successful, he considered doing more stories, but DC screwed him over, which prevented that from happening
Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons were thinking of doing a minutemen prequel at a point.
@@TheVegeta67 That's what I really want, a Minutemen prequel book. Siding how everything went down, they were arrested and outlawed.
@@JohnClark-tt2bl Well Darwyn Cooke did it where it is really good, but it makes one definitive choice that I disagree with as far as the JFK assassination.
Alan Moore and his opinions have changed so much over the decades I no longer want any more Watchmen. His original book was open to interpretation and you could argue for any character. It was open. Now he just wants to preach a specific opinion and send magic curses towards anyone who touches his work.
@@bZman are you suggesting that the graphic novel Watchmen leaves any room for Rorschach to be right?
This wasn't a series to read one issue of randomly, I was so lost. I got heavy "Three Days of the Condor" vibes from it though.
Knowing Sal is so on board I'll have to pick up the rest.
I really enjoyed the pacing in this book. The art and visuals are stunning. Can’t wait to see you do an elseworlds with Tom talking about it if possible. Thank you for all you do.
I loved that Watchmen show they had on HBO and learned a surprising amount from it about the less known parts of actually American history, along with chars brushed over in the comic
It’s one of my most personal favorite pieces of art ever. The HBO series like this book and the original comic stand on their own but brilliantly compliment each other!👍🏾
Alright... I can't believe I'm saying this about a Watchmen sequel... but I'm adding this one to my list. This is an incredibly good story.
I give this book 9 "hurms" out of 10
Bought the hard cover immediately after finishing this episode.
I’ve been super sick for the past few days and back issues is the only thing that has kept me sane so thank you guys. I love this show!
Sounded interesting, not sure about the ending though. Laura's mania being contagious is also very Batmania from Frank Miller.
3 am right now and I can’t go to bed because I’m so interested in this episode, love your guys discussion on this one and Sal explaining this lovely book.
This comic has more connections to the Watchmen TV show, but aren't explicitly spelled. In the show, Adrian Veidt is perpetuating the threat of alien invasion by randomly making it rain baby squids all over the world. They don't have the psychic visions, and the bodies dissolve in minutes so they can never be studied. But that world is constantly reminded of the "aliens." There's even a security company that makes alarms to let people know if an interdimensional beach breach is happening. So The Kid's father going crazy about the squids makes a bit more sense.
The other big thing the show brings up is a technology rollback after the original comic. Veidt framed Doctor Manhattan for causing cancer with his powers. Nobody ever bothered to disprove that after Jon left earth. The world of the comic had many technological advances made based on Manhattan, like electric cars. The show (and its supplemental materials) talk about all that Manhattan tech being discarded. The show is set in 2019, but people are using pagers and radios instead cell phones. Police stations were just starting to use computers again. Notice nobody has a phone or computer in the Rorschach comic. So the cassette players and reel-to-reel players aren't out of place for this story.
Succinctly put! I was just about to reiterate that anyone that enjoyed this book and the way it uses the world of Watchmen really owe it to themselves to watch the HBO miniseries! Almost everything Sal, the boys & commenters are gushing about come straight out of the miniseries they all reflexively dismissed! lol I hope this is a gateway into the HBO series for many people because I think a great many of us ‘jaded’ comics readers are missing out on something wonderful!👍🏾❤️
I may be somewhat insane, but the majority of King's books have been Very Enjoyable. Of course the few stories that suck seriously Do Suck. Can't help but feel a bit sad for good old Wizard Moore.
Tom King is one of those writers whose work falls into two extremes - when they're good, they're really good, and when they're bad, they're a dumpster fire. Say what you will about the man, at least his work gets people talking.
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 Yeah, on one hand he gives us the amazing Mister Miracle, but on the other hand is Heroes in Crisis.
Well every creator has made things that can be “bad”. It’s not a new idea. Like spielberg directed Lincoln, which is amazing, but also made ready player one.
I’m so glad Sal loves this book. It absolutely captivated me. I read it months ago, still haven’t really stopped thinking about it.
“That is a lot of Balloons to not win”😂
Having now listened to Sal's interview with King, this is even better! Went back and listened again! One of your best, Sal!
Me: "Its May 4th, I know Star Wars episodes don't do well but maybe we'll get a Star Wars Back Issues!"
-It's Rorschach, a story I also had absolutely no interest in-
Me: "Oh..."
Me, 2 hours later: "Oh!! That was actually kinda neat!"
Didn't see anyone else mention it in the comments, but the ending is a direct reference to Lee Harvey Oswald, who was arrested in the cinema he went to after assassinating Kennedy.
One of the best episodes yet. Good job guys!
Tom King is either hit or miss, but it seems he knocked it out of the park with this book.
Sal be rapping in the intro Lolol
Sal is talking about Hannah Arendt on back issues? Damn I was not expecting that.
The breakdown of understanding the analog of creators gave me a hearty laugh. Amazing work as always guys.
DC: Oh shit! We forgot the logo on that copy of Watchmen!
Alan Moore: Best lawyer up, bish.
Hey sal do you think the Tom king broke up broke up his themes as a way to make an interactive roshack test with the comic? For example switching to cowboys without a grounded understanding of the metaphor makes you as the reader reader have to make the leaps and logic to find the pattern
so.... i SHOULD read this?
Great episode. Glad You listened, gave it another shot, and decided to share.
Yes! Let's gooo! Rorschach was hands down my favourite book of last year. I am so excited for this
I was with Sal when it first came out, The first issue is super depressing and boring. I thought it was gonna be a one and done kind of thing, but after reading the whole thing I immediately take it back. This combine both of my favorite genres superheroes and Detective stories. But instead of focusing on the superhero aspect, it’s the subject matter not the genre. I didn’t really go in expecting to see you the next Rorschach, nor was I hoping to. I really do think this is fun and suspenseful. And at the end (well beginning to mean) I actually wanted the assassins to succeed a little.
the detective looks like Columbo
Omg, yes, spot on
Tomorrow is my birthday, and a two hour ComicPop episode is a great gift. Thanks Sam, Tiffany, Ethan, and Ben.
Black lantern zombie rorshack should be a comic
52:40, yeah its a reference to when nite owl and jupiter went on a date and talk about him dropping a villain down an elevator shaft
“It started thirty-five minutes ago.” Cute.
Man this challenged my active listening. Not because of a poor explaining, but because it's fucking crazy. I love it.
If pirates are the marvel/dc stand ins than would that make cowboys…the image stand ins???!
Thank y'all for this long episode. I have a loooong car ride today.
1:59:45 All these Tom King books... Little did Ben know Supergirl WOT a coming for his tears.
This book gave me nightmares.
I remember absolutely loving every issue as they came out but not really liking the final issue. And I guess that’s because I didn’t really figure out the implications of who was involved in what. The “who’s to blame” went back and forth too many times that I ended up not caring, but hearing you guys talk about it definitely turned me around on the ending. Absolutely brilliant
Been praying for you guys to do this. Absolutely amazing!
I forgot Sal was a school teacher until he started talking about LBJ
It's always a treat whenever a Tom King book winds up on the couch
Any chance of a "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" Back Issues? I know it's kind of obscure, but I love hearing you guys talk about Alan Moore. Catchy title idea "Alan Moore's Victorian Justice League"
This makes me want to get a copy of this and Watchmen on a comic shop.
You Guys are Awesome. Love all the shows. First time commenting.
I for one love the longer episodes.
The ultimate cut of watchmen is 3 hours and 23 minutes without credits
I AM SO FUCKING HAPPY TO WATCH THIS! WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMEN SPINOFF RORSCHACH BACK ISSUES AND HAS 2 THUMBS? THIS GUY!
Loved the spin-off!
Hell Yes!!!! Was Waiting for this!!
I love Tom kings writing besides Batman.
Fantastic book! I’m going to read it again! Great video and analysis Sal!
The most frustrating thing about objectivism is that most people who subscribe to it think they're one of these special people. But, and I'm only assuming Ditko wasn't self aware enough to realize this or had some way to rationalize it, I can only imagine how annoyed he'd be when told or when realizing that he has to dilute his character to get it on shelves.
Always appreciate a good starship troopers reference!
This was such a delight to watch. I read the story as it was coming out and I felt that reading it in one go benefits to the pacing. I guess I gotta buy it on this beautiful hard cover now.
Can’t wait to read it and experience it all over again, maybe in a different way this time 😎
The detective looks like Columbo
@43:00 starship troopers reference came to my mind too. Cracked me up that all 3 of you went there
This deserves way more views!!!! After this back issues I literally picked up a copy the next day from my local CBS thank you @comicpop for all the awesome content!
You'd think someone would have done pirate comics by now, given how big watchmen is
I really want an entire DC pirate universe that has decades of convoluted craziness and poofy sleeves.
I went to go find my copy of Watchmen and checked to see if it has a Vertigo or a Black Label sticker but it just had the current DC logo on it. I bought it in late 2018 so I guess it must have been printed in the limbo state between Vertigos death and the creation of Black Label.
Well, now I'd really like to read The Dark Fife Returns
Didn't expect this but hell yeah!
Unrelated but I really want Sal's jacket hoodie thing because it looks super comfortable
Man this was a good one. I genuinely did not see the direction it was going but I'm glad I stuck it out
Hrm. There are some really good ideas in this! Thanks for covering it!
To me the ending is the dectective seeing some of himself in the pirate as he's talking about "if I'm gonna go down, I'm gonna go down fighting" or whatever, because he knows this is the end of the road for him, but at least he brought about his end fighting for what he thinks is right. So he has that moment of self satisfaction while all the while knowing what happens next
Seeing this made my day infinity better.