Christine Caine on the Pain of Leadership
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Christine Caine on the Pain of Leadership, Outrage Culture, Why She Didn't Quit and How to Lead With Your Heart Fully in It
In an emotional conversation, A21 founder and Mother Teresa Memorial Award winner, Christine Caine, talks about the pain of leadership in a highly-critical, outrage-driven culture, how it led her to rethink how much longer she wants to lead with her heart fully in it, and why she decided to keep going in leadership despite the struggle. This is soul fuel for every leader right now.
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0:00 Intro, Small talk, discussion about accents
3:05 Christianity seems to have lost a massive amount of influence in the west. (Australians) had to learn to outwork and live your faith tradition in a very multicultural world; in most counties, there is not a predominant Christian subculture like there is in America.
5:54 When you go out, the under-tow is *soo* strong , but you're not going to know that the currents underneath are always shifting. Getup frequently and check your markers.
10:20 Good/bad techniques to live as a person of faith in a secular/multicultural country. It had to be an outflow of who I was; I had to love people and find entry points, to allow authentic spiritual conversations to arise. Be quick to own mistakes, lead a life of service. People not asking deep existential questions about eternity, where they go when they die.
14:12 Deep peace, deep joy. Story of friend from Sydney university who 'had it all,' used recreational drugs, wanted to share experience with Christine. She was more passionate about what this drug brings, than Christine was about her faith. Christianity must be lived "inside out" to lead people to ask "what is the source?"
18:10 Deconstruction/re-evaluation of our faith is not a bad thing; asking "Was I just in a cultural system, or was I truly following Jesus, and allowing the Holy Spirit to transform me from the inside out?" The fruit of the Spirit has become a cornerstone, is what people are looking for.
20:07 Billy Graham with Johnny Carson: (See RdkbNGCp1G4 ) Whatever happened to dialogue, civility, genuine curiosity and mutual respect between church and culture, or the world in general? Age of outrage and anger. Misuse and abuse of power. Heightened awareness of sins that have always been there, through internet and social media.
The Forum is now online with more mixed levels of emotional and spiritual maturity, different backgrounds, venting or crying out their pain or sense of injustice. Fear that we might lose control. Some disengage, because it is toxic to the soul.
25:52 There are many unknown authentic Jesus followers in the trenches; there are more of them than of the other louder, platformed voices, which are only in certain segments. There is a lot of good that is happening. One-on-one where Christian people encounter hurting, desperate, people wanting help. Just because we have convictions and opinions, doesn't mean we need to give them about everything.
29:15 Christine's organisation, A21, to "abolish slavery everywhere forever." Her background of brokenness -- abandoned, adopted at birth, encountered se-ual abuse and need for healing -- redeemed. Threefold purpose: reach the vulnerable; rescue the victim; and restore the survivors. In fifteen countries. Committed not just to ambulances at bottom to mop-up, but also to nets at the top of cliff; let's deal with this at a systemic level, to eradicate what leads to trafficking in the first place. Tens of thousands of abolitionists raised up.
31:23 Starting in 2008, the church had two responses: some streams were very open; others gave a lot of pushback: "Why would someone like you, traveling and teaching, be doing something like this (A21) work, it's not really gospel work?" Didn't realise "social justice" was a separate thing. Thought justice and evangelism, works and faith, were simply two sides of the same coin.
33:10 Responding to critics. "Not right enough for the right, nor left enough for the left." Too secular/too faith-based." "You're a woman." In Australia, just grateful for one more willing Christian, man/woman/qualified doesn't matter, just "go and tell everyone." Attempting to unite under a humanitarian issue banner. Look for the nugget of truth in criticism. Need to keep heart soft in the work of compassion.
38:01 Slander, mis-representation, maligned: could be a full time job just clarifying what was meant. You cannot be responsible for what someone else is thinking or saying about you. Like Nehemiah: "I can't come down from the wall to have those discussions."
40:42 So many leaders walk away and not finish their race; decide "I just cannot deal with the criticism anymore." There are always personal issues to navigate, plus the online life. Not all can be done. If allowed to, the critics would take her out. Considered taking her foot off the accelerator, to just "cruise" on past momentum. Comparison to navy seal "hell week." Cried; said "I don't know if I want to."
46:07 Jesus would know. "Forgetting those things that are behind, I press..." was I willing to keep pressing? Not for personal gain, but for the sake of the next generation. Am I up for it, despite the cost? Profoundly aware of our own humanity, can make mistakes. What you said yesterday can be weaponised against you today. People take things from archives -- true things said because it suited the cultural moment, location, and crowd to say it that way -- and pull them into a new context, and use them against you. Wrestling with counting the cost. How much to spend on the defence, how much on offence, taking ground. Wrote book "HOW DID I GET HERE." Wrote about things that keep her anchored. Cost of being faithful to what she's been called to do.
46:07 Jesus would know. "Forgetting those things that are behind, I press..." was I willing to keep pressing? Not for personal gain, but for the sake of the next generation. Am I up for it, despite the cost? Profoundly aware of our own humanity, can make mistakes. What you said yesterday can be weaponised against you today. People take things from archives -- true things said because it suited the cultural moment, location, and crowd to say it that way -- and pull them into a new context, and use them against you. Wrestling with counting the cost. How much to spend on the defence, how much on offence, taking ground. Wrote book "HOW DID I GET HERE." Wrote about things that keep her anchored. Cost of being faithful to what she's been called to do.
50:53 Existential angst of every leader, has or will go through. Carey really enjoyed the book, "HOW DID I GET HERE." It is a fresh voice. "I'll cruise." Carey says it's like "I don't need this anymore." But, he was a 30yo leader, and saw that in 55yo leaders, he hated it. Now realises why it happens. Outrage culture made it even more toxic. Jesus is worthy. Want to finish well, cross the line, hear "Well done, good and faithful servant." Pain of regret would worse than that of carrying on. Carey: "You can only sit on a beach for so long." I want to use what God has given me for the benefit of others, not just myself. A live, current, emotional issue, personal struggle.
54:12 Christine: "Because we're older, you're aware it's not going to get easier. You can see where the world is going." We war against the flesh and spirit. There's a very real side (flesh) that would like to play it safe. Spent 30yrs of her life preaching and teaching "Jesus didn't come to make us safe." It's about her children, and because she does love the church, foremostly loves Jesus, and truly believes in the gospel message. God has always used very flawed people that deliver that. "I'd love to go home, but it's to your benefit that I stay." A role-model for women, and the church in general. Raising up teams to keep it going, take over.
58:15 "Teachers you have many, fathers (/mothers) you don't have a lot." It is becoming rarer to continue to the finish line. Perhaps the greatest gift is not to drift from that. Fathering (mothering) GenX, Millennials, we live in a generation that needs that. I'm not waiting: praying a prayer, and then waiting to die so my life begins.
1:00:56 If I have truly been born again I want God's will to be done here on earth, today, as it is in heaven. So then I'm going to want to bring justice to the world. The issue for this generation is to bring justice and righteousness together, truth and righteousness. From the reformation we discovered that good works are not going to save us, it is by grace through faith. We must not replace pre-reformation works with "I've now got to do enough good things that would be applauded by the world (depending on which is the popular thing at the moment)." "If you're not posting about that thing, liking it, saying what I want you to say about that thing, in the way I want you to say it..." In under thirty minutes, people can dismiss thirty years of teaching, nuance, not give the benefit of the doubt, not ask a question, but instead read into it a political statement. It is deeply disturbing from a theological leadership issue, and spiritual formation, making disciples, and creating future leaders for the church.
1:03:28 I have always been far more obsessed with how many people on this earth are not following Jesus, than following me; more obsessed with becoming more like Jesus, than people liking my post. The message I have to bring to the world is not going to be liked, if I believe the scriptures, by everybody. I want to be as broad as I can; encourage and inspire people from those with no faith, to a professor at a seminary. Carey: Quality of your work, not the quantity of your likes.
1:05:55 Advice to leaders feeling like "hell week," wanting to take their foot off the gas. Raise your hand and say "I need help." Come back to your "Why." Why did you start? For Jesus. Who are you running for, ultimately? Do your work, and due diligence, but none of that is satisfying, so come back to your why, "I did it for Jesus." Leadership doesn't need to be lonely, but there is a place of alone-ness as a Christian leader, like Jesus in Gethsemane. Peter slept. "I don't want to drink this cup. Is there another way?" Am I willing to say again, "Not my will, but Thine."?
1:10:53 Wrapping up
This is so helpful in my stage of life as a lay leader for my church's young adults ministry and with our mission department. Thank you Christine and Carey!
Thank you Carey for doing these talks, they help in so many different ways. Thank you Mrs Caine for sharing your heart and being real.
Thank you for speaking for up the women teaching, speaking, leading. There are indeed some who will continually knock a woman preacher/teacher.
Excellent conversation! So many timely and important points! Thank you!
Carey is the best interviewer in the game, bar none.
This is so good... if you're not right enough for the right or left enough for the left... I can totally relate to the struggle.
This was amazing, very much appreciated interview! Such a great role model and so looking forward to her live event on the 10th for her new book!
I love "Fighting for the Faith's" topics with her! Will never look at her the same after those.
Oops, no, it was a video by "The Messed Up Church" on Christine's mother's day talk.
Sound thinking, so needed in our days! Thank you
very good, very real and very encouraging
We love you Christine!
Loved this, thank you both!
Thank you for sharing. You are touching generation’s of people groups who are dealing with this subject matter!
I really enjoyed this interview!
Mrs Caine is always so real!
Wow. I felt the pain. Beautiful. Where else would I go....
“Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.” - John 15:13
She's MARVELOUS to be able to do what she does and be the husband of one wife!
She's saintly... Can you imagine being saved from being in slavery? I am in awe of this work she has done and continues to do. Holy ground.
Preach christine!
So blessed!
1:14 Australians sound the way they do in part due to the way the indigenous Australians languages sounded, eg. more nasally. So there seems to be a mixing effect on accents.
This lady is beautiful !!