THE SECRET TO A GREAT BASS TONE | Understanding Gain Structure
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- This video will explain the meaning and importance of creating a good 'Gain Structure' on your amplifier. This technique will make your sound engineer very happy and they'll probably buy you a pint for knowing this.
By sending a strong, clean signal to the Front of House (mixing desk/PA) there will be fewer problem frequencies for the engineer to deal with. This should make his job easier and allow the Bass to sit nicely in the mix, making all the difference in getting a great Bass tone both on stage and out front.
I turn up to so many rehearsal studios where the EQ on the house rig has been maxed out but the gain is almost entirely off. This lesson will show you how to set the gain effectively, in order to get a strong clean level instead of using the EQ controls like volume buttons!!
Just remember to check the Gain Structure each time you alter the EQ settings on your amp.
Hopefully this lesson will spare the lives of rehearsal Bass amps everywhere.
Gear Used:
Fender Squire Vintage Modified '77 Jazz Bass
Rotosound Swing Bass 66 Roundwounds
Ampeg Portaflex PF-500
Ampeg SVT Classic 15e Cabinet
Recorded in HD on a Canon EOS600D
Title Music: The Future Dub Project - Victory
Copyright of The Future Dub Project 2014
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www.thefuturedubproject.com
www.soundcloud.com/thefuturedubproject
thefuturedubproject
Twitter: @FDubOfficial
Thanks for watching!
All things, no matter what subject it is, can be understood perfectly when people take the time to explain it, like this guy did.
Thanks for watching!
I thought I already was dialling a decent tone with the same head into a Traynor 2x10 and 1x15 cabs. After this video came up in my feed I decided to try the tip provided. I'm very impressed. My tone sounds huge at any volume now. Thanks for this. You helped fix a problem I didn't even realize I had.
Thanks for watching! Glad you found it helpful :)
For the people who don't have a peak light it's gonna be a bit tougher but nothing you can't manage. At low volume play a strong note like he did and higher your gain until you notice the signal distorts and is not clean anymore. Back up the gain a little bit. Set the volume at the desired level. You're all set.
thierry berno thank you for this
What if i dont have gain... lol
Bang on Thierry. Thanks for watching!
exactly, having a very loud bass on stage is nothing if it already sounds distorted outside the stage, sometimes its not the amp, its the external housing that makes the sound of the bass extremely distorted when already heard outside the stage. only solution for that is to get the volume lowered a little bit. some bassists keep thinking having the loudest bass is the best, where in reality its not always about the volume, its always the clarity when heard outside the stage
This quite an effective technique
A very useful step by step tutorial. Definitely gonna give it a try the next time I'm in the studio.
kabutoid I accidentally went diarea in my whity tightys at work and they are yellow in the front and brown in the back
Thank you for this Video! I commented on another video regarding getting distortion coming out of a 8 Ohm cabinet from a 500W amp. I am going try adjusting my gain and see how it will improve the sound. I have the -10db button engaged since I have active EQ on my bass.
thank you. i didn't know how to use the gain until now :)
Joe Lee I just learned. one year after you. you should be a pro by now.
Don't cut your mids! Mids are where the tone lives!
Fretless, the high mids are necessary.
Also, noon is NOT FLAT on the midrange knob of these Portaflex series heads. The mid knob has -20 db of cut and +10 db of boost, meaning that 2:00 is flat, not noon. He was already cutting his mids even before he turned them down further. People really need to read the owners manuals of their gear before they spread misinformation
Nice, I didn’t see gain in this light before, I always thought it’s just support for volume or set to 2-8 o’clock to get distortion. Thanks for clarifying.
T H A N K. Y O U!!! You saved me from selling or trading my speaker cab by making this adjustment to my amp.
Chris Chesna wow!
Thanks for watching Chris. I'm glad you found this helpful.
I just noticed my amp doesn't have a "Peak" light ._.
When I followed the advice here I found that I can't get any volume. I thought it funny to buy the POWER of AMPEG only to have the peak light control my volume to nill. Asked a buddy and long time Ampeg user about it and was told not to worry about the peak light but to get what I need out of the amp. Been happy ever since :P
Michael Williams Hi Michael. Don't forget to turn the volume up once you've set the gain 😉
I did. The peak light was having none of it. TO keep it off I has to use the DB reduction button. I have the SVT-8 pro by the way. Maybe its just touchy.
Michael Williams Depends if you're using an active Bass or pedal setup with a naturally high output. Then it would often be on a lot unless you use the dB pad. SVT Pro series are notorious for having issues, couldn't say for sure without seeing it.
All I know is when I am using my ampeg the rack compressor gate will not engage as the amp seems too hot. I do use a few pedals.
The compressor would have taken out a lot of the peaks. Then the gain is turned up to increase the tones you do want in the I mix.
So after all this years... how is the ampeg head holding?... thank you for such a great video
FN-2187 We've now parted ways but it's still going strong with a friend in London. Thanks for watching 🙏
inthepockett cool... just bought this as a back up.. but sound better than my acoustic b6000h
FN-2187 man I love the acoustic amps - an acoustic 360 is on my mid life crisis list
mine is one of the sold state ones, it sounds great but nor as standard as the ampeg... mine is a copy of the 360 but not as good!...
Hello InThePockett, I got a 15e also. Been very lack luster. How is it with the Kappa vs. Stock?
Anyone hear GREAT bass tone in this video?
Although I've heard this before I appreciate your explanation. One concern however before setting all that up is... what Volume do you have on your Guitar (Pups)..
That plays a significant role in setting your Amp. I am curious on your response although I think this vid is 4+ Years old..
Cheers Mate,
L.R.
My only correction here. Is the eq on the pre amp does not effect your input level the eq that will effect this is a active bass pre amp the input gain enters into the preamp of the amp (eq section the protect or clip light indicates you are over loading the preamp section which can lead to failure..) Still pretty good for people who dont know how to set gain stage..
the preamp EQ does affect the input peak light. if you have one of these amps set the gain like this then try cranking the bass knob on the amp and you will see the peak light coming on more. you have to readjust gain after setting the EQ
Dumb question-isn’t the gain the input signal going into the preamp, pre-eq? And if so, why does the eq affect the gain light?
i don't know why but even in ampeg's videos they say you should readjust gain after boosting any EQ as it does affect how the gain behaves. if you set gain like he does in the video then boost the bass on the amp the peak light will be coming on and if you don't want that you have to lower the gain
I wouldn't recommend making eq adjustments with the volume off, eq isn't arbitrary, our ears should guide the adjustments
Can someone please help, can I put diferen speakers to this amplifier in this video?
I tried this method and i put my PJ bass volume at half ( active bass) and it gave me the FATTEST clean tone when recorded.
didactic polymath Awesome. Glad you found this helpful 👍
inthepockett thanks for saving me buying some Quarter Pounders. Recording and live it gives a great sound. And im using a behringer. Knowing your gear is more important than I thought.
Secret to best tone: intonation.
Does the svt 15e stand out fine on its own for practice or small rooms? I don't need a 410hlf yet.
Well, I own a Pf-350 as backup for my full valve bassman. I almost crank gain control up to 3 o'clock so that I get the sound I like. Clipping led is obviously lighting up almost continuously. Dealing with master volume so as not to reach protection breaker, makes my Ampeg SVT410 Heritage series wreck walls.
Therefore, I can't agree with this recommendation on how to use gain stage. In fact, IMHO, the crucial point for a tone is the speaker's section.
Alvaro Fernández thanks for watching. It sounds like you're actually using this method to get the correct gain stage. Glad it sounds awesome, those 410s are beastly!
hi dude!!, Well, not really, I meant I crank the gain section all the way up at three o'clock position independently on how much the clipping led lights up. I just search for a slight overdriven tone. Then I logically must deal with master volume.
All in all, this is a good approach to explain gain section
Alvaro Fernandez for sure, putting it into the clipping stage will give you a good overdriven tone. Crunchy!!
Nice Video!
I tried it on my Bugera BTX36000, with the signal coming from active electronics/eq inside the bass, through the pedal board and a rack gate/compressor and the only way to get the clipping light to do even a little blinking was to crank up the makeup gain on the compressor to the limit... that kind of made me wondering if thats a normal thing to more ppl ?
Hi thanks for watching. It sounds like there's a lot going on in your setup. Your Compressor will be doing a lot of the work to keep the signal from being too hot - which would be why you have to crank it so much before you get any noticeable distortion.
Thanks for the answer! I think it could be something like this... sadly I don't often get the chance to work on the whole setup without some impatient guys running around. I'll give it a look when I get the chance to... maybe turning up the pedalboards output a bit and stuff like that.
How would you recommend adjusting your gain if your using distortion pedals?
mangbeloy Thanks for watching. The same rules apply if you want a strong signal out of the amp, that way your pedals shouldn't have to do all the hard work. For example you don't really want a weak amp level with a pedal maxed out to get it to a decent volume.
Thanks for the reply
So the idea ist to get the most out of your preamp without distorting. Why though? I get the bit with the engineer but how does this make the amp sound better?
Thanks for watching! By setting up the gain structure right, the EQ will only be adding or reducing the frequencies you want, not acting like a secondary set of volume knobs. It also means that the engineer has a better signal of 'your sound' and the amp will also live longer when operated properly. Overall, it will just sound better.
Doesn't the gain stage occur before the EQ? Adjusting the EQ would therefore be completely independent from gain.
you would think so but at least on these ampegs the EQ affects the gain and how the peak light behaves
Interesting and slightly counter intuitive not having any actual sound coming out of the amp, yet seeing clipping. May have to see if my Amp will allow a set up in this fashion.
Don't be turning your mids down!
It's all personal taste but it's a popular starting point for clearing up tone. If you want a dirtier tone then they're great for cutting through a mix. Thanks for watching!
Needs more gain!!!!
More gain is great for natural distortion. This is meant to demonstrate how you can get a strong signal before sending to the output. Thanks for watching.
Yeah indeed, I played a bit too much guitar lately. But for bass I get my gritt/gain from pedals. I will try this technique to get a cleaner distorted bass maybe :) I'll see. cheers
Secret to best tone: get a tube amp
I totally agree!!!!
You have the power!!
Tube amps may sound a little better but its better to just buy a solid state with a SFT, Rat, or EQD Dunes/Palisades pedal for distortion. Less maintenance, cheaper, and you get the same sound
I agree on the less maintenance thing. It's why I don't go tube.
Naaa... I "downgrade" from a sunn tube amp... too much manteinence, plus heavy as hell, a high price to pay for just a little more growl... plus the SS amps can give you that too, and if not there are a lot of effect on the market... with the money of my sunn 3000 I bought this ampeg PF 350, an Ampeg SVT450 and an acoustic B600H and damn those things are great, I see a lot of guys trowing shit on them... must be paid to do that or they must be endorsed..
My bass amp didn have gain or EQ, only volume, bass and treble, so the controls on the bass were always close to full on.
Bass and treble are eq
I can hear the strings vibrating over the actual amp
Aidan Briggs My strings are just too damn powerful!! Thanks for the feedback 👍
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
That PF 500 with an Ampeg SVT 4x10 is the worst sounding rig on the planet. And that was using a very kick ass 1996 Musciman Ray4. It just sounded like it was gutless. But that same cabinet with my Ampeg SVT 4pro and or my GK 700 RB made that same 4x10 cabinet sing big time. I got rid of the PF head, Never ever again. Now it may be fine for some real low volume stuff, But not for rock at all.
anthony knows The PF heads exist to be used with their PF cabs counterparts. Really, the 410s are designed for higher output heads like the SVT etc Thanks for watching 👌
Lol. That's the input gain. If you adjust the eq it won't affect the input gain again. Whats the point of adjusting the eq with no output? This video makes no sense.