The New Era of K-pop Idols ‖ What is MAVE: + Lore
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- Опубликовано: 19 июл 2024
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thank you for covering this because some people are acting like vocaloid live concerts and k/da don't exist. 😭this isn't a new and revolutionary thing, it's just the first time it's been expanded with this much work and backstory.
Exactly! 🫶
Gestures to Vtubers
@@shoujokadyan5502 this too!
Exactly!
K/DA will ALWAYS be better.
i wish you had mentioned the fact that the group is technically a video game tie in like kda. zena is a character in the game paragon: the overprime, a game by netmarble aka maves company, and her character bio specifically states that shes an idol trainee from another world (the real world). she was put in the game in November of 2022, so she predates the groups debut
Cringe.
That's super cool, I hope we get to see the other members in games as well.
This doesn't phase me at all because I not only am a KPOP fan, but I also listen to Vocaloid music, so I just think of them as Hatsune Miku's juniors lol
NOT THE JUNIORS 😭
hatsune miku sunbaenim😭😭😭
AJJAJAJA literally
HELPP😭
LMAO SAME
what i am the most scared of when it comes to virtual idols is fans behaviour. human idols are already being dehumanised and with virtual idols i feel like it might get even worse for them. the pressure to always be perfect is already painfully high in the kpop industry and virtual idols will always reach that level of perfection with their looks, skills and behaviour, they will be able to always act exactly how fans want them to, they dont have feelings- unlike real humans.
As someone who’s been attending Hatsune Miku concerts since 2007, where she is a hologram on stage, this just feels like a natural progression 😂
Honestly, the idea of virtual idols is cool, but idk why we're acting like it's something new. Hatsune Miku has existed for more than a decade, holding real-live concerts while being a digital singer. As long as the execution's is good and quality is nice, I'm down with it.
The only thing I don't like is people acting like the virtual idols are real people themselves. The boys of superkind... I'm sorry but the way they speak about an inanimate thing that was manufactured to be as perfect as possible and having THAT as their standard to work towards... dystopic, methinks.
Edit: After some thought, I realized I don't like when CGI and real people are in the same group. It looks goofy and unnatural nomatter how high the production value is. Keeping them separate is th ebest move
THIS
PREACH🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
Fully agree. I think it's cool for groups that have the real humans and their virtual versions, like Aespa and Billy, as they are mostly meant to appear separately. Putting them side-by-side looks very odd.
I just hope that in the future of virtual idols, companies will go away from the hyper realism and instead go with stylized and interesting looking characters.
Have you seen vtubers, Hololive, Nijisan....?
They said virtual idols not vtubers.
@@lulu_Lm well they sing, dance, do concerts, and some consider them idols too. Pretty much the same thing.
@@DurrtyGato it's not remotely the same thing.
Virtual idols make perfect sense. As cynical as it sounds, these idols never get sick, tired or old. Nor will they ever gain weight or be part of a scandal that could ruin their reputation. They do not need money spent on their training and it's easy to change their appearance.
It's the perfect money making scheme for the record labels, and unlike real idols (which have limited time in the industry), they can ride that gravy train for as long as they like.
I think the SuperKind Members thoughts summed up my fears well. They’re training themselves harder and doubting their own natural beauty to compare to pixels. They’re in the same group and still feel they’re competing I fear it will lead to even more harmful lifestyles for artist trying to catch up to unattainable perfection
What revolutionary I've been a vocaloid fan for about 12 years now
I like the idea of having an AI Idol as a stand in for people who don't want their face out in public. It's like being a vtuber but professionally dancing and singing. K beauty standards are so harsh. This'll be great to let ordinary people with fantastic vocals and dance skills to be put out there without having to subject to plastic surgery and criticism for how they look.
Also, I think current Idols shouldn't be afraid or intimidated by AI Idols. No one is just going to forget about them or replace them. I do like that idea of AI and Idols working together in a way. You explained it best towards the end of the video
Virtual Idols
@latinacorpse Yeah that lol
Sure, but at the same time it's going to make those beauty standards worse. How can you expect real people to compete with an actual animation for beauty?
@@CS-zb7hx For easily influenced individuals, sadly yes
@@SebastiansLeftGlove0731 'Easily influenced'? Uhm? It's not easily influenced to be bothered that your career is going to suffer because you're competing for spots with literal drawings
I'm excited to learn more about this group. I praised the dancing animation in one of their shorts and continue to get hounded in replies from salty fans who like to pretend that it's poorly animated, not naturalistic looking, simple to make, and not really animation. I get that people love to be possessive over the first example of something they see like K/DA or Aespa, but these groups all have unique approaches and visual styles that should be celebrated!
It doesn't look natural at all lmao
@@Bambabababambam For current animation standards, it does look pretty natural and smooth. Not human-like, but technology hasn't gotten that far yet.
people went crazy when yea miku and k/da has been a thing before this// as long they aren't ai fully and have some sort of voice provider it's all good. Been a vocaloid fan forever almost and didn't bat an eye, and have to compliment them for the high quality of the models, motion, and such, as that is not easy to achive!
at everyone who keeps referring to the group as AI characters... did you even watch the video. how many times does someone need to say that they're CGI
I really ejoyed the song & performances I've seen so far. The main concern I have for anything human virtual based is if the captures, (voice, choreography, and visuals) are based on actual people. The standards and expectations are already so harsh for idols. I feel if virtual groups get to a point of being completely rendered/ perfected by a computer, it would kinda distort the expectations of people too. A similar effect to what we deal with now with actual visuals vs edited photos.
I have always considered Vocaloid in its own genre, it doesn’t bug me.
What does bug me is making cgi idols to be a part of a DIFFERENT genre full of Real People.
How long do we have before human girl groups aren’t pretty enough anymore?
They could make whole new body standard if they wanted…based on inhuman proportions.
Yes, they already have unrealistic standards. But the standard was based on the human skeleton-not animated girls and boys that could be stretched and pinched into contorted “standards” that flesh and blood can’t match
I liked KDA and I would feel more positively about AI idols if it meant that human idols would get a break from the inhuman visual expectations since whoever wants skinny, pale, flawless people can just look at the AI. Instead, we all know that the complete opposite will happen and humans will have to risk their lives to conform to the beauty standards of something that doesn't exist
I love ur videos. Keep them coming.
I'm just happy Mave is working out better then Eternity did at debut.
Good thing ETERNITY has been improving since debut
Their song Pandora came on on spotify radio, i was like oh wow this is so good i have to follow them! Had no idea they were not a real group until youtube recommended me a video talking about them 😆 Thought they were just another regular group who just debuted :P
Im just excited to hear more music from them. Dont really see reason to be horrified and angry immediately, when there already virtual artists like IA, Hatsune Miku etc and they have not overtaken all of music :P
would love to hear more opinions on this but I'll go out on a limb and say I'm sure no k-pop fan wants an outright cgi-idol overtake of the industry
I'm definitely not a fan of virtual k-pop idol groups but if people can find joy and entertainment in them then I say, why not? real, flesh and blood entertainers will always be the standard, and the only ones I can confidently call "artists"
Girl, you forgot the most interesting part about the MAVE: girls, particularly about ZENA. Zena is actually a playable character in a game called *Paragon: the Overprime* , and she was released last year with the game, months before MAVE:s debut.
I saw the video, and when I saw the ponytail and bangs, immediately I thought it was Zena, although I didn't know their member names at the time. When I saw the name ZENA, I was like "Gosh, now EVERYTHING makes sense xD"
Anyway, this debut was basically K/DA all over again, which is fine, because I do like K/DA and I certainly enjoy listening PANDORA to repeat. I think on this as a proof that concepts and rollouts don't mean much if the music is not good enough. In the end of the day, it is song quality that really matters.
I too am a sucker for mythology within K-Pop 😎 there's so much potential to either Advance/Support/ Help human idols, expand what new things could be done within K-Pop and raise the bar for both future human and virtual idols, Midnight 😊
Thank you for making this video! I am a middle-aged, technologically-challenged woman who is just starting to get into K-pop, and I’m finding your channel extremely useful for explaining many things about the industry, the groups, and so much more. Subscribed!
It all feels so uncanny vally and leaves me uncomfortable and that's not even getting into the potential abuses of a virtual idol online by those who would chose to exploit the IP of the various companies that choose to put out virtual Idols. I mean I can see why a company might want a virtual idol as unlike an actual flesh and blood human being you don't have to pay to house, feed, or train said idols and are only really paying for technology as well as choreographers and vocalists. So overhead is cut down. It just feels so wrong to me I can understand the appeal or why someone would like it but I just feel like this is a couple steps removed from an AI takeover.
i think you havent seen hatsune miku
FRR
I understand the concern but AI takeover? Seriously? This isn’t much different from things like Vocaloid and Gorillaz, both of which have existed for a while now. They’re just animated characters, in now way a threat to art or amything like that
the thing is they have nothing to do with Artifical Intelligence😭😭😭 why you guys are so delusional💀
@@syryozh6957 exactly my thoughts
Thanks for the video, great breakdowns on everything about mave including their impacts and potentials. Personally, I'm excited with the concept of virtual idols but not too keen on AI idols. While its understandable people are worried about real people being replaced, it is important to keep in mind that virtual idols are still real people with virtual avatars representing them, so it is a non issue. Real(?) idols/celebs will never be replaced just like how live action movies will never be replaced by animated movies.
I love mave. I keep update on them and watch the content. And virtual aren’t gonna take over the music industry 😭
It's still Vocaloid for me... They have endless concepts...
And they don’t have to deal with bullying behavior or allegations!
I think virtual idols are a good solution for people that want to be idols but arent pretty enough or just want to stay privat because they want to avoid the mental stress of the idol life
Actually this only makes EVERYONEsome kind of disposable laborers because the only thing that matters is an avatar
@@ChrisKobraLA all idols are exposable - virtual or not. Thats the sad truth
That's a good point. But on the other side, I could also cause more pressure for human idols, because these AI Idols can reach beauty standards and in general abilities a human idol could never match. I guess it's an double-edged sword, I can give talented Kpop Singers that don't match the beauty standard the opposite to get privacy and avoid hatred from the public, but i could also raise the standards and therefore the pressure for all Kpop idols.
@@raygin6581 no because even when an idol is fired he takes his personality with him/her. If people focus on following an avatar then the person can be just dumped away even in the middle of a concert an nobody will ever notice anything have happened
@@raygin6581 if kpop idols are disposable it’s because the industry in general sucks not because people have become disposable themselves
This is really interesting as a fan of vocaloids and vtubers, and i’m excited to see how they’ll progress, though imo they should quit with the hyperrealistic looking avatars cause it kind of looks uncanny and the movement ends up being really stiff 😭
Great video and insights into what the future has in store!!
One of them is named Tyra?
Tyra Banks is shaking.
Woah I am early today
I really don't care about MAVE causes that's their concept
As years goes by we might see more CGI, AI and many more plus MAVE isn't the first girl group with such a concept.
It may also be good since the kpop industry keeps debuting minors and overworking them
They will drop a webtoon to explore their lore
I agree it does have it's benefits and weaknesses, but it would need a lot of money and expertise for Virtual Idols to get to the level of human idol performances. However, it's refreshing to see how entertainment companies are adapting and nurturing technology as it develops, so as long as it's used correctly in moral terms it's something that people can eventually start being open-minded about.
As long as the songs are good, I don't see an issue with it. It's like she said, it'll help when the humans idols are tired, sick or hurt so they can actually rest instead of being forced to work through their injuries and possibly cause worse injuries.
I applaud growth, it is the way to be inspired and challenged to see what is out there. Definitely want to see where MAVE will go. The advancement of technology will always have an open door because people always are looking for improvement consciously and subconsciously. You always hear about flaws over your favorite idols from the media, so now with AI this can be eliminated to a point. There is always going to be the non-satisfied customer.
THANK YOU OMG
The best solution and interesting take would have been to make them stylised instead of realistic...cos right now all their faces look the same, they are somewhat in the uncanny valley and CGI/AI groups will just re-enforce Korean Beauty standards.
Making them stylised gives a fun element and let's them be silly and mot perfect while not damaging real people (and instead it helps people more for example a singer who wants to be a kpop idol but doesn't wanna dance or go through the idol life and dancers too, it creates more jobs in that way)
Such a dumb little detail but I hate people calling virtual humans “ai” like no not everything roboty and futuristic is ai, they have a script and voice actors, they don’t think for themselves
This group is awesome
love this video! i liked their song pandora but idk how i feel about cgi/ai idols replacing human idols... its not as interesting or anything...
Notification squad here ^_^
I don't agree with the outrage. As said by many, Vocaloid has existed for more than a decade. But, I agree with the comment that said that they could have used the fact that they are not real to make a more interesting look (instead of just "perfect humans"). I think is part of the charm that people see in KDA, that they don't look like just humans. Vocaloid too, they are anime humans, not just humans.
Even this vid said this group is CGI, not AI. Why the comments are still saying "AI Idols"? For example, Neurosama, is an actual AI VTuber.
I appreciate your video but I can’t imagine giving much support/attention to a virtual group over a group that has spent years working to debut and brings real character to their performances.
I was uneasy at first but hownstly I really like it I mean good music is good music and we will always have new tech as well as real people both can exist
Their song is so good I like them.
Out of curiosity - Are Wei, Weeekly, and CSR under Kakao's subsidiary labels? It would make sense seeing as YG, Hybe, etc promote by having their artists do each other's challenges!!
I'm becoming a fan midnight theories
Can you also talk about the survival show Girls Reverse?
I'm not really worried about all the details within the industry, I'm worried about MAVE's societal impact on the stratification and hierarchy of beauty. The standard of beauty is already unattainable with real human idols, and now they can make it even further out of our reach. You may say, "Well, they aren't real, so they can't really influence the already unequal hierarchy of beauty," but I think that just misses the point because they are still following the dangerous trends. The messaging is still there, and unless Metaverse Entertainment comes up with something that deviates from that, I think companies will continue to make us feel worse about ourselves.
I would consider this over-taking of virtual idols or maybe even AI-idols to be currently a non-issue. Technology would need to be more advanced and cheaper for all companies to be able to work with virtual idols. Aside from a few experimentation projects, companies would need this to be more profitable than real idols to decide to ditch all of them in favor of virtual idols, which is unlikely to happen since fans are not as receptive. So while yes, we may see some people trying the waters with this and some groups appearing, it will be only a handful and it is unlikely to affect real idols' careers.
Mave World Domination
Amen
Bruh it was so irritating to see people refer to them as AI knowing most likely MAVE is using the same tech that make games like Detroit become human and stuff like that or just playing CG animation
It doesn't count as live since they're not even alive.
I think it's a fun novelty group. I don't think virtual idols will ever take over, lol.
It cool. We need more virtual idols.
There are plenty of Virtual Idols in Modern K-Pop actually!
I wonder where you get your sources from? I'm planning on using MAVE: as my topic in my research sub but i'm having a hard time searching for reliable sources😭😭
interesting video
How cool is this concept for idol privacy and safety? They can go out in public without security and live their lives.
There is some real uncanny valley effect going on with these designs. Miku is an anime character so you can overlook or just run with the artificiality of the entire thing. MAVE's team is trying too hard to be stylized and realistic, but the movement is still off. It's honestly weird and off putting to watch. I think the novelty could wear off really fast. People are curious now but would they want more of this? I doubt it.
I think its just a phase. A lot of work is required for such groups. It will eventually be easier to debut actual humans. I do like the lore ideas with CGI idols as seen with MAVE.
this feels like an emperor's new clothes situation. everyone who talks about virtual idols like they're the future is completely missing the mark of what makes kpop special. of course a cgi character can have perfect visuals and vocals and dance skills, and they'll all be designed like that, and it'll get boring fast. this trend is all overblown hype and won't last.
I'd become a virtual idol, just because the only thing I had to do at all would be singin
K/DA came out in 2018
Aren't there already webtoons about this? That show all the problems that come with this development
The only wow factor I have with Mave is how realistic they look in comparison to my beloved Vocaloid...
I don't really care about virtual idols, but it just seems that animators will also now be recipients of hostility and mistreatment from kpop companies
This will add a whole new level of pressure & unrealistic standards for the real human idols to survive in the future of the industry
Meh Korea is already deeply into unrealistic standards, I rather support an Ai than a 13 y old at YG
Graphics are Unreal Engine 5'ish good. We will see lots of new games coming out. Refined, but this is nothing more than a mobile game ad from Netmarble.
It wont last long.
The backstory feels like LSM on cocaine
I never heard of Mave or Eternity. I like this concept and I don't think CGI or AI characters will ever completely replace human idols. There are pros and cons to both real idols and animated idols, so i think having a mix of both would work.
There are plenty of Virtual Idols in Modern K-Pop, actually!
They will coexist. Music industry will always go beyond
Imagine you're an idol working hard til you're literally dying from exhaustion and you finally make your debut but then get beat by a group with virtual members only. I don't want to say that their songs are bad or hate on the group but I'm afraid of a scenario where this trend is getting too popular.
This is already happening everyday , supporting MAVE wont destroy nugu groups thats audience and company fault for Not giving them attention
The vocalists/rappers/dancers of mave also worked their ass....Do you guys think only idols suffer is it lol. There are people behind them...like is it not obvious?
is all about the coin....just that.
I mean we all like Hatsune Miku it is really no different I am open for this!!
MAVE SUPERIORITY
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT SOFTWARE THEY DO THIS WITH? 😭
in short cgi characters are just what you see aka the 3d model
I still prefer real girls. but VR and ER is improving exponentially.
Even now with video filters, idols are already partially virtual.
They are seeking FREEDOM OF EXPRESSIONS....?? 🤣 Oh the irony is so funny. That's a joke, right? No? WOW
Kiki voice
God. Even entertainment is not safe from AI
MT says that they’re CGI.
@@brandoniswhoiam let me rephrase
Entertainment isn’t safe from the AI and CGI technology
I'm not afraid of cgi idols. I'm more afraid of the possibility that people could STAN these unreal idols and turn the cgi idol industry into something as toxic as the kpop industry right now (over-idolization, harsh beauty standards, etc.). I mean, it's so weird to have dance practice videos for cgi idols who never really "practice", and idols pretending to have real conversations and interactions,... Will the public eventually forget that these things are all fake and not worth idolizing? But anyway, mave seems to have good songs, so props to the behind-the-scene staff :))
Virtual Idols can coexist with Real Idols. We've seen it in J-Pop
@@Odd_Cinderella yeah i know that. i'm more worried about how people will idolize fake (cgi) idols as much as real idols
Yeah Nah I rather support MAVE than minors
Hatsune miku is the blueprint and it's will stay this way !
The only thing I have to say: MAVE: was not the first K-Pop group to debut in 2023. That honor goes to HANA (01/08). Also, Virtual Idols won't ever take over Human Idols this has been proven within the J-Pop Community as they coexist. Virtual Idols will have their corner of fans and Human Idols will still have their fans.
Dude this is my name. It's soooo odd to hear this as a group name now wtf
am i the only person who think their models look like the girls from dead or alive 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Its owned by kakao
Not a fan of this, as I prefer humans and also find it to be too predictable. I just found it funny that some fake images are the ones in their story that brings emotions and empathy back, deeply human characteristics, how ironic.
The future might become ver interesting. Maybe not good, but interesting for sure.
Maybe this would be more interesting if the group didn't resemble aespa that much. I don't care about the whole AI schtick and I'm not sure what they can bring to the table
They dont tho.
Dont be ridiculous SM doesnt care about Aespa the CGI and AI members don’t even look good , MAVE is better as a concept and visuals (for the group Not Face , Karina and giselle are prettier than cartoon)
"live performance"
My only question for all of these AI groups, is why do they feel the need to give 'members' dates of birth. I understand bdays, but... with a year? I think a part of what makes AI groups cool to stan is how timeless they are, but now in a few years ppl will start making jokes about the members being hags lol.
But there voice is real . It’s a human singing it
I enjoyed KDA's popstar song but I prefer real idols. If the technology improves and the songs are good, I'll probably be more open to AI groups but it seems like such a waste with so many trainees hoping to debut.
Why not make AI versions of real idols instead of pushing them to exhaustion? That seems like a good idea to me..
just wanna say loona started the whole world building thing, but it looks like maves world building is really good and does loonaverse concept a justice
While I do appreciate your position, and I 100% agree that Loona did amazing things with their World building, they didn’t start it. They did make an incredible and unique contribution to World building and they deserve so much more recognition and appreciation.
why is the narrator voice like that is it an ai voice?
Let’s be honest anywhere else they are gonna flop music executives outside of the Korean music industry will not take this seriously and see it advance 🤷🏽♀️ only the Korean market & fans of K-pop would accept this foolishness KDA and any other were to promote a video game & it’s characters not to be taken seriously as a music group and neither should this “group” i understand trying to be innovative but this is a joke 😭😂😂
I can see both points of the argument.
But I personally lean towards real idols more, because AI or CGI groups nothing is real or genuine everything is fake to a extent like if they started to cry its not genuine they have been programmed to cry. And personally I can't see myself forming a connection to a AI or CGI group.
While real idols reactions are more genuine and real and it easier to form a connection with real idols than a AI or CGI group.
That is my 2 cents