Scientists Reveal The Incredible Genetic Origins of The Goths
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
- The Goths, an East Germanic tribe renowned for their fierce opposition to the Roman Empire. Frequently referenced in ancient texts they had a significant impact on European history during the Migration Period.This video seeks to elucidate their origins, ethnogenesis, and tribal migrations by integrating newly published archaeogenetic data, archaeological findings, and historical records.The Scandza referenced in Getica is traditionally linked to Scandinavia, while Gothiscandza is associated with present-day Poland.Modern scholars, including Herwig Wolfram, Peter Heather, Anders Kaliff, and Wolf Liebeschuetz, have identified Gothiscandza with the Iron Age Wielbark culture in Poland.
www.nature.com/articles/s4146...
genomebiology.biomedcentral.c...
www.nature.com/articles/s4159...
There is one serious flaw in all theories about the origin of the Goths: both scholars and people at large tend to regard Northern Poland and Southern Sweden as two places far apart and isolated from each other. They're not, they are right next door to each other.
Our perception of early history is still heavily influenced by the 19th and early 20th century historians who all seem to have suffered from serious aquaphobia. Things look very different the moment we realise the sea is a highway, not a barrier.
Exactly, also, when it comes to migration, I think there should always be an analysis of the climate at the time. As soon as it is done, things become very clear.
"Look at the Goths and their amazing ship burials!"
"Far from their homeland, they barely survived on an inhospitable foreign shore they have never heard of before with savage people lurking in the woods!"
Prehistorically they tended to be rather different:
1. In the Neolithic Scandinavia was settled by people from the West (Megalithic super-culture), via Denmark, and by people from the East (Diepr-Don), via Belarus and the Baltic countries. Later the Danish-South Swedish Megalithic peoples (similar to modern Basques) would influence Poland in culture (Funnelbeaker) but not in genetics, which remained of the "Sardinian" type instead.
2. When the Indoeuropeans (Corded Ware) arrived and had Poland (especially Kujawia) as their main stronghold, they also invaded Scandinavia but almost certainly via Denmark again (they were still the landlubber type, although I guess they may have began adapting, they were far from being great sailors).
3. Later Germany and Scandinavia, and even the Czech Republic, were strongly influenced by Bell Beaker culture (which is from SW Europe and thus probably Vasconic), but Poland wasn't.
4. When the Celto-Italics (Urnfields culture) expanded they did affect Poland (Lausitz culture) but not Scandinavia nor the likely Germanic homeland in North Germany and the Netherlands.
So it's only with the East Germanics (veritable precursors of the later Varangians it seems to me) that both areas (Scandinavia and Poland) were *directly* connected by the same dominant ethno-culture for the first time ever (unless we count early West Indoeuropeans of Corded Ware culture, which were not directly interacting between Poland and Scandinavia but via North Germany and Denmark rather). It would not last, as the East Germanics moved southwards and the Slavics eventually replaced them.
The sea and the rivers. They waited for the right wind and sailed in a few hours travelled hundreds of miles. And the rivers was short cuts allowing to sail across the continent.
It's worse than that.
People talk about the Goths like they are extinct. Many of us still carry their legacy.
its a wonderful legacy indeed ...
Here, here!
@@evoinception Yes. They brought down Rome and Attila allowing the modern world to arise. It would have been a much different world if the Eastern Empire hadn't moved against them.
I had traces of his DNA too.
Many typical Spanish Surnames like, Fernandez, Alvarez, Gonzalez, Sanchez, Martinez, Rodriguez ect are Visigothic in origin.
As a Spaniard of Galician heritage, today I'm Christian and speak Castilian aka Spanish instead of Arabic praying to Allah 20 times a day thanks to Visigothic Nobleman Don Pelayo. Valiant warrior King of the North. King of Asturias. Crowned KIng by the loyal men who fought alongside him. Seeder of the Reconquista and their descendants who continued forming small Christian Kingdoms in the North, fighting and resisting for 700 years. Generation to generation. (Instead of running away into France) slowly expanding until the whole of Iberia was free of the peaceful messengers of islam in 1492AD, when the remaining Christian Kingdoms united to become Spain. 🇪🇸 (Except for the Kingdom of Portugal 🇵🇹 because they're special but I still love them.)
Muslims like to brag how they "ruled Iberia for 800 years. "
But what they fail to mention is that the Reconquista pretty much started straight away. And that the tiny Christian Kingdoms of the North were not part of Al Andalus. They also fail to mention that by the 12th century (1100s) half of Hispania was back in Indo European Christian hands. And by the mid 13th century 96% of Hispania had been reconquered. They fail to mention that the islamic kingdom of Granada was allowed to remain as long as they paid tribute to the Kingdom of Castile. Until they made the mistake of attacking a Christian settlement in the late 15th century.
Today the gates of Toledo have once again been opened into Europa and the West...
*Reconquista II Intensifies*
DEUS VULT!
It appears the proto-Goths spent a lot of time getting to know their neighbors
lol
thanks for your continued support to channel and interest in topic
Wish we had some freedom left in Scandinavia and in the cradle of our culture; the black sea population. Btw, the land was much higher close to the ice age. Whole people groups lived where the ocean cover parts of the North Sea, close to northern Europe. Meaning the dry land almost conected Scandinavia to Poland.
thanks for your perspective on the topic ...
Quite the opposite. The Scandinavian peninsula had been pressed down by the ice and was lower than today with coastlines far inland today. It has been rising in different degrees in different parts of Scandinavia and at the same time sea levels were rising so sometimes Denmark and southern Sweden was a part if the European mainland, sometimes cut off like today. ~2000 BP the coast was a bit inland from present coastlines.
They had boats! It was faster to travel by sea than land because they didn't have cars and roads.
Gotland I have many Swedish DNA matches and have no Swedish ancestors, but I do have ancestors form Norway, Hanover area of Germany, Bavaria and Switzerland.
you carry a wonderful legacy, thanks for sharing ...
My family came from Hamburg, Germany, I have the I1 haplogroup. Family tradition say they were boat makes and settled along the Elbe River in the 9th century AD. Most likely they were Vikings looking for land to farm.
@@justanamerican9024 you have a wonderful legacy , thanks for sharing ..
Congratulations
The funny thing about Bavarians: My dad is I1 and my mum is 66,5% Skandinavian both come from regions where never a swedish Soldier got lost in the 30 years war. If you upload their DNA to sime a-DNA site my dad is Lombard/Gepidic and my mum Visigoth/Gepidic (those 'Gepidic' samples all have high Balkanic and Celtic admixtures) Funny is the PCA: The statistical nowadays 'Austrian' and 'Southern German' are labelled with a distance above 8, while the skeletal remains clot around a distance of 5. So their nowadays closest relatives are in Southern France and Central and Northern Spain as well as in the Piemont, though we don't have 'real' relatives there, only DNA-Matches that come from perchance 'Population-genetics'. They also have lots of Skandinavian, Polish and Russian 'Matches' though more distant then the 'Lombard' and 'Visigothic' ones. Both of them are really closely related with the Skara Varnhem VK42, with 1900 and 1600 SNP's in a row, but we mused if this one probably was no Viking but a catholic priest.
Politically, the sucessor states to the Visigothic Empire, through the Principality of Asturias and the Kingdom of León, are the Portuguese Republic and the Kingdom of Spain. All of Latin American countries and Brazil derive their political and social lineage from the Goths. In 410 Alaric the First sacked Rome. In 451 Theodoric the First, allied to the last Roman army, defeated Attila and the Huns, therefore laying the foundation for an independent Christian West. Amal and Balt royal lines had been the inspiration for the germanic religion and legends.
Exactly. Spaniards and Portuguese always remember the Celtiberians but forget about our Germanic ancestors. Apart from the fact that many typical Spanish surnames are Visigothic in orgin, like Rodriguez, Sanchez, Martinez, Gonzalez, Alvarez, Fernandez, Gomez ect, but the Suebi, Vandals, Buri, Alans also entered into Hispania.
As a Spaniard of Galician heritage, today I'm Christian and speak Castilian aka Spanish instead of Arabic praying to Allah 20 times a day thanks to Visigothic Nobleman Don Pelayo. Valiant warrior King of the North. King of Asturias. Crowned KIng by the loyal men who fought alongside him. Seeder of the Reconquista and their descendants who continued forming small Christian Kingdoms in the North, fighting and resisting for 700 years. Generation to generation. (Instead of running away into France) slowly expanding until the whole of Iberia was free of the peaceful messengers of islam in 1492AD, when the remaining Christian Kingdoms united to become Spain. 🇪🇸 (Except for the Kingdom of Portugal 🇵🇹 because they're special but I still love them.)
Muslims like to brag how they "ruled Iberia for 800 years. "
But what they fail to mention is that the Reconquista pretty much started straight away. And that the tiny Christian Kingdoms of the North were not part of Al Andalus. They also fail to mention that by the 12th century (1100s) half of Hispania was back in Indo European Christian hands. And by the mid 13th century 96% of Hispania had been reconquered. They fail to mention that the islamic kingdom of Granada was allowed to remain as long as they paid tribute to the Kingdom of Castile. Until they made the mistake of attacking a Christian settlement in the late 15th century.
Today the gates of Toledo have once again been opened into Europa and the West...
*Reconquista II Intensifies*
DEUS VULT!
@@edstar83well said ... If after 800(?) years our ancestors/we did not want you there it is because we (Christian Iberia) and you (Islam) have nothing in common in spite imbecilic propaganda driven DNA studies (which proved exactly the opposite) .... AND by the way, this "Al Andalus' is just "Vandalusia" The Land of Vandals... it is the distorted pronunciation to make it sound arabic.... stop saying/using the expression"Al Andalus'"; quash it! ... It is narrative vocabulary...
Most of the DNA evidences not suprised me. In general Poland was probably dominated by R1a haplogrup since 3000 BC and Corded Ware culture. Wielbark culture (read Vielbark) bringed some DNA from scnadinavia where Goths (mainly I1) mixed with some local people (R1a).
Goth kings family probably migrated from Åmål village in Sweeden (on the coast of Vänern Lake) invading the region rich because for amber trade (close to city of Gdansk in Poland - probably originated from "Gothiscandza").
A fact that suprised me is G hapolgrup in Goth DNA.
The presence of the G haplogroup in Gothic DNA is indeed surprising and highlights the diverse genetic influences in these ancient populations. The G haplogroup is more commonly associated with populations in the Caucasus and Near East, suggesting that the Goths, like many ancient groups, had complex interactions with various peoples over time.
@@evoinception My hypothesis is that G haploroup is a remnant of neolythic farmers that migrated to Scandinavia from Anatolia thorough Danube and Elbe river valleys. but I am supriset that this DNA survieved in Scandinavia for so long.
Cold climate naturraly prefers I1 and R1a haplogrups.
There is Haplogroup I and G because they are dominant in the Goths/Getae in Moesia and Thrace! Goths are NOT Germanic, they are NOT from Poland, please, this is a total, total falsification and this channel should be reported! Goths originated in today’s Bulgaria close to the Black Sea north from Varna. From there they migrated through BAVARIA north to Scane and Gothland!
@@goldliongoldlion5336 You wrongly use the word "falsification"
G2a is a haplogroup of Neolithic Farmers and Basques forefathers that were exterminated and replaced by R1b. Today, G2a is dominant in Osetians(Alania)have 55% and Gorgians 30%. Neolithic Farmers have spread around Europe. They survived only in Greec and Montenegro each 6%. Similar % in Italy and Spain. G2a was a part of real ancient Greek, and were "Ancient Greeks", not today Greeks. Today Greeks are from Anatolia J2a and Caucasus R1b-ht35 part of R1b haplogroup that reached Caucasus. These Greeks invaded South Italy and Sycily. We have learned about Aristotel, Pithagora Siracusa and Magna Grecia. Today Greeks live in country and area that those South Italien Greeka invaded in Balkan from teritory setled by Greeks in South Italy.
Just a few simple questions - why the Jordan book is called Getica and not Gothica and why enormous ancient writers say the Goths, who were called before Gets/Getae (the famous and enormous Thracian tribe)
Germanic propaganda. They could not find R1b haplogroup among "Goths" therefore they worked out I1haplogroup, which is not Germanic but treated as Germanic. 30% of Norvegians carry R1a haplogroup. What is about this data. 29% Germans in Germany have R1a haplogroup and 15% of I2 hg more than I1. I1 haplogroup is getting and resenting as Germanic haplogroup.
Better ask why the visigoths named Sweden, Denmark and Finland, Dacia in official documents. 😂
First writer of Sweden- Petrus de Dacia, when Sweden was named Dacia.
Why there are the tribes Daikones( dacians) in Gotland, Getsi, guttones...
Its like. Iordanes says, they came from Dacia into Sweden.
The author of the video treated the results of DNA tests from Wielbark culture burials very selectively - focusing only on the haplogroups of the male Y chromosome. A full DNA profile was examined, including the DNA of women (who, of course, do not have Y haplogroups I2, I1 or R1). These studies indicated mixing Scandinavian DNA with the DNA of inhabitants who lived in this area before the arrival of the Goths - male newcomers from Scandinavia had offspring with local women. There were 300-400 years of peaceful coexistence between the newcomers from Scandinavia and the existing inhabitants, before the Goths migrated further to the area of modern Ukraine. In this context, the stay of the Goths in Spain or Italy was rather short and coincided with quite turbulent times of wars and subsequent invasions of nomads from Asia or other non-Scandinavian Germanic tribes.
Returning to the research on the full DNA of the Wielbark culture, they showed great similarity to the DNA of the inhabitants of early Middle Ages Poland.
It's worth noting that genetic studies show not only mixing but also cultural exchanges, as seen in the shared material culture and burial practices between the Scandinavian newcomers and local populations. This kind of integration is a testament to the complex social dynamics of ancient communities.Furthermore, while the Goths did migrate to areas like Ukraine, Spain, and Italy, their genetic legacy in these regions is more nuanced. The Goths' migrations contributed to the genetic diversity in these areas, but the impact was relatively small compared to the larger, more established local populations. This is especially evident in the turbulent times marked by wars and invasions, which led to further genetic mixing and dilution of any single group's genetic signature.Recent studies also highlight that the genetic legacy of the Goths, while detectable, is often interwoven with other Germanic tribes and migratory waves. This complexity makes it challenging to attribute specific genetic markers exclusively to the Goths.
25% White makeup, 25% red lipstick, 25% black hair dye,, 12.5% dagger like nails 12.0% shaved vampire teeth 05% race regions - piercings
So I am a Goth after all! Atta unsar thu in himinam!
amen
As for the Goths, this name is extremely similar to the name of the Guts, a Scythian-Aryan people from the Zagros Mountains. The name "Germany" was given to a friendly Scythian tribe that bordered the Roman Empire. When the Romans asked what people live behind you, they replied: the same as us. Therefore, the name Germans was given to all Scythian tribes north of Rome. This name was strenghed in the 19th century in order to consolidate the society of the Reich. Scandinavian legends were added and a national narrative was created for the people who arrived and mixed with Scythian natives in what is now Germany over the past thousand years. Byzantine architecture, incomprehensible language and Eastern cruelty indicate where most of them came from.
The Goths are generally recognized as a Germanic people who migrated from Scandinavia to areas around the Vistula River (modern-day Poland) and further into Europe. Their name likely derives from a Germanic root rather than a connection to the Scythian-Aryan 'Guts' from the Zagros Mountains.The name 'Germany' and 'Germans' comes from the Latin 'Germania,' a term used by the Romans to describe the various tribes living to the north of the Roman Empire. This term does not specifically relate to Scythian tribes but rather to the diverse groups of Germanic tribes in that region.
İskitler açık ve kesin olarak Türktür.
Fantastic information, but I'd love to see a map showing the various migrations over time.
thanks, i will add it in a future episode
@timadamson3378 An older Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1987 or so, has such a map in the macro history of Europe section showing tribal migration during the first millenia AD. Before that you need to piece together folk tales and be aware of the alterations of religion and politics of conquest have made. For example, the Snorri Sturleson Edda tells of Odin having been born in Anitolia, in the time before the consolidation of the Hittite Empire. He got assassinated by the King of Norway for contradicting Christian Dogma of the time. The Steppe tribes that came thru that way split and went southwest and northwest, the corded ware and earliest R1a and b their descendants. The Lebhar Gabalah Eirann tells of the history of people's coming to Ireland being from these folks in the case of four of these groups that came from the North, from Ionia and from the colonization efforts of the Mylesians. They are the People of Nemed, the Fir Bolg, and the Tuatye de D'anann, and finally the Mylesians, who were all cousins of the same migration group. Remember to be critical of time lines in respect to the contemporary religious and political lords of the times your informational resources were recorded.
The second image shown in this video are of armor-plated Sarmatians, not Goths.
Great, thanks! How about something on the origin location of the Vandals next?
i will keep your suggestion in mind for future episode ...
Vandals(Veneti) carried R1a Slavic haplogroup, not R1b Germanic or Scandinavian I1 haplogroup.
@@ashlyirvyn2917 Interesting...how dominant was this R1a Slavic haplogroup within their gene-pool, and how reliable and wide was this sourced? I was under the impression that the Vandals were also Scandinavian, or at least Germanic. Thanks.
@ashlyirvyn2917 Slavs descended from the Scythians also R1a. Just like the Persians. R1a. Farsi is an Indo European language.
Slavs, Germanic and Celts are brothers.
Too bad the Persians didn't resist islam more.
As a Spaniard of Galician heritage, today I'm Christian and speak Castilian aka Spanish instead of Arabic praying to Allah 20 times a day thanks to Visigothic Nobleman Don Pelayo. Valiant warrior King of the North. King of Asturias. Crowned KIng by the loyal men who fought alongside him. Seeder of the Reconquista and their descendants who continued forming small Christian Kingdoms in the North, fighting and resisting for 700 years. Generation to generation. (Instead of running away into France) slowly expanding until the whole of Iberia was free of the peaceful messengers of islam in 1492AD, when the remaining Christian Kingdoms united to become Spain. 🇪🇸 (Except for the Kingdom of Portugal 🇵🇹 because they're special but I still love them.)
Muslims like to brag how they "ruled Iberia for 800 years. "
But what they fail to mention is that the Reconquista pretty much started straight away. And that the tiny Christian Kingdoms of the North were not part of Al Andalus. They also fail to mention that by the 12th century (1100s) half of Hispania was back in Indo European Christian hands. And by the mid 13th century 96% of Hispania had been reconquered. They fail to mention that the islamic kingdom of Granada was allowed to remain as long as they paid tribute to the Kingdom of Castile. Until they made the mistake of attacking a Christian settlement in the late 15th century.
Today the gates of Toledo have once again been opened into Europa and the West...
*Reconquista II Intensifies*
DEUS VULT!
I'm from Spain. I dad a DNA test and showed modern connection with scandinavian people. After that, I did another DNA test wich compares your samples with DNA founded in archaeological burials and showed a direct connection with a visigothic buril in northern Spain. Also, included a connection wit an scythian burial i moderno Moldavia, where goths were too.
well that is very interesting, thanks for sharing ...
Ostrogoths and Visigoths has nothing to do with Scandinavian Goths, which is proved by Y-DNA genetics. Scandinavian Goths carried I1, while Ostro- and Visi- Goths carried I2 haplogroups.
Add gepids too, they are the dacian goths from Transylvania and exactly like the visigoths, just slower of the battlefield😂.
The visigoths started this and they are south east romanians, the getae dacians.
There were people living there before them
Excellent report with much food for thought and further research.
thanks for your support to channel ...
TOTALLY FAKE VIDEO!
It is all fake crap.
@@neloglass This is science based factual information. "Fake Crap" is what you get watching MSM.
The Goths , according to their own tradition, originated in Scania, and in three waves crossed to nowaday Poland, settling at Gothisk Anza, meaning Gothic bay, from which the placenames Danzig, or Gdansk are derived. By no means were they Thracians.
Do you know who the Scythians were?
@@Thor-Orion Of course,"Thor". Scythians are a branch of the Eastern, Satem group of Indoeuropean languages, and are distantly related to Germanic peoples , who are part of the Kentum group.
The goths start with the visigiths in south Romania. There are no other goths older than in Romania and its like Iordanes says, they were getae dacians.
But thats not all, the visigoths named Sweden, Denmark and Finland, Dacia in official documents, just google it 😂.
Its because the visigoths are dacians and dacians are thracians.
First writer of Sweden- Petrus de Dacia.
Also these goths were not even germanic, they were 100% celts that spoke vulgar latin themselves.
The gothic language was invented just to convert the germanics to christianity.
Visigoths from Romania grew vineyard, wich is not germanic coulture but celtic(dacian), they wore wings on tgeir helmets like the gauls wich means celts and celts speak vulgar latin.
Trust Iordanes when he says the visigoths are getae dacians of Decebal and Burebista.
There is even the Daikones tribe in Gotland, literally dacians.
@@mihaiilie8808 Yo
Nice, subbed.
thanks for your support to channel ...
6:06
I think this needs the Michael Dennin treatment!
Goths came from the place named after them, who'da thunk it.
thanks for your perspective ...
@@evoinception Haha, you're welcome! I know I was facetious with my comment but I quite enjoyed your video. Looking forward to seeing more stuff like this.
They called it Gothland in the Scandinavian peninsula, because there lived Germans and Goths. The land where Goths lived was normally called Gothland.
What you don't know is that in the 8th century, the Goths left Scandinavia and moved to Normandy. Did you hear of that???
The Normans didn't learn their funny French from the Franks, they spoke the same language they always had. And that is why when Normans conquered England, the English language become a mess of Romanian and German.
Most of the "Latin" words in the English language are not Latin, they are Romanian.
Want proof???.......I can bring plenty if they do not delete my comments, which the delete all the time.
@@neloglass I knew the Normans came from Scandinavia, but I haven't heard of the Gothic connection before. I've seen the Gothic language before, and it seems quite different from English, at least to me.
@@Danielscottrhoades Have you heard of all the Gothic style constructions done by the Normans???.......they were called Normans because they came from the North........what was their name before that???.......they were called Goths.
Where did you see Gothic language?
I have Gothic words from Procopius and they are pure Romanian.
The only text I have is from the Bible translated by Wuilfila for the lesser Goths, and there is plenty of resemblance of English there.
Thank you.
thanks for your support to channel ...
The region of Götland in present day Sweden bare the name as well as Gotland. But likely the groups and tribes described as gotha must have been a mixture of north germanic, germanic, slavic and celtic add up.
It's true that Gotland in present-day Sweden shares a name similar to the Goths, which has led to various theories about their origins. The Goths are generally considered a Germanic tribe, and archaeological evidence supports their migration from Southern Scandinavia, including areas like Gotland and Götaland, to the regions around the Vistula River (modern-day Poland).The Goths likely did encounter and mix with various groups during their migrations, including other Germanic tribes, as well as Celtic, Slavic, and possibly some Eastern groups. This mixture would have contributed to their diverse cultural and genetic makeup.However, the primary origin of the Goths is generally traced back to Northern Europe, particularly Southern Scandinavia. Their identity as a Germanic people is supported by linguistic, archaeological, and genetic evidence. While interactions with other groups certainly influenced them, the core of the Gothic population remained distinctly Germanic.Thanks for your perspective ...
They are my ancestors from romania and they are the getae dacians.
Thats why you see tribes like Daikones ( literally dacians) in gotland.
Getae was how the greeks called us, and dacians was how the romans called us.
Were the occupants of what is now Poland Slavic or Germanic prior to the Goths settlements? Would a Slav or a German have looked much different to outsiders back then, or was it a linguistic and cultural difference?
Prior to the Goths' settlements, the occupants of what is now Poland were primarily part of various cultures, including the Corded Ware culture, which is considered a precursor to both Slavic and Germanic groups.Back then, the differences between Slavs and Germans were mainly linguistic and cultural rather than physical. They would have spoken different languages and had distinct cultural practices, but to an outsider, they might not have looked significantly different. The genetic and physical diversity within these groups would have made it hard to distinguish between them based on appearance alone. Thanks for asking...
@@evoinceptionCorded ware is also the precursor to the Celtics and the Pontic Steppe Aryans like the Sintashta. The corded ware culture is probably the single most important piece of understanding the genetic and cultural makeup of Europeans ever since their own time.
And the visigoths were also at times friends with the huns. Thats how the elongated heads of the visigoths wifes resulted.
And if you look in Toulouse France, up until recently there were people with elongated heads there and it was called the Toulouse deformity. Thats was from the visigoths wich brought it from the huns.
I hear on this video a mention of the Chelts ! I am a double Chelt from Cheltic lands haha !
so in short, the goths were black africans and the fact that "black" and "goth" share absolutely no common letters is evidence of a cover up
We was Indo Europeans n * * * *
Everywhere was populated by black Africans at one time. They even built the face on Mars!
My ancestor was Halfdan the Black.
It was Vandals who settled in North Africa, not the Goths.
what i find madly facinating is the fact the name for mother in Finnish is the same in Gothic.
Had to check this. It's damn near the same. Also the word for king I think is kuningaz.
He looks kind of like me (my family is Bavarian and Scandinavian)
you carry a wonderful legacy ...
I2 is dominant in the Balkans.
Goths are living in the area of Getts -- Thracian tribe
Jordan wrote Gethica, and not Gothica?? Why??
Nobody want to answer that question.
But there is more!!!
In the great poem Beowulf, when the hero Beowulf came from Skanza (Scandinavia) and presented himself to the Danish king he said; "I am a GEAT".
The GAETI lived in Scandinavia with the Germans and they always had wars.
In the 8th century the GAETI/GOTHS left the peninsula and moved to Normandy. After that the peninsula became all Germanic.
@@neloglass It is possible.... In history there are only hipoesis.. ;)
@@aleksanderwassilew8548 I studied just about all the antiquity books that survived and were translated to English. From my debates with the greatest historians on earth, I have the impression that I am the only one who did such an immense study!!!
I see all sorts of stupid things all over the internet which claims to be true history.
What I learned from all those antiquity books is that half of the history is understood wrong, and much of it is changed on purpose, by the manipulating Scholars.
Therefore the history taught in Universities, is based on the historians of 2 centuries ago, and much of it changed by the new communist minded Scholars.
@@neloglass If You have explanation - tell us... but if You are the only one - it is sad...
@@aleksanderwassilew8548 Can't tell anything, because my videos are blocked on You Tube and Rumble.
I wrote books, but those books are not allowed to be mentioned on You Tube.
My Pen Name is Raven Alb J and if you write this name on Google you will see the books I wrote.
I see how difficult is to correctly pronounce the names of Polish archeological cultures Trzciniecka (Trzciniec ), Masłomęcka (Masłomęcz), Przeworska (Przewrorsk)
Yeah, it should be revised and spelling checked.
"What if I have Gothic ancestry? Oh no, what do I dooo?" Relax and keep existing and doing what you do. If people believe Goths are alien, so be it. Goth DNA is the past and the future.
Goths originated on the Balkans! Their Haplogroup is Haplogroup I!!!!!!!
If you refer to the Goths that these people think they were Germans, and by Balkans you mean North of Danube you are right.
South of Danube were Thracians and it is true they were also Gete/Gaeti the same as all the Skits, the Sarmati, the Masagete, the Sigety and the rest who together made the great nation of the Gaeti also called Barbarians.
The people of the Balkans are more ancestral to Western Europe than the time of the Goth. Mesolithic (I2a) and before that the Upper Paleolithic where Hg I evolved in Western Europe 40,000 years ago.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170
@@user-qo6lk5ec9f Your genetic science is much crap, because you have no idea how to read it, how to chose people for the tests, and the whole thing is run by incompetents!!!
From the Island of Gotland. Look at the name, GOT-land, intregingly close to 'Goth"
Gotland is a secondary place for Goths. Origins of Goths was in Central Sweeden (Västergötland , Östergötland). Then Goth migrated to the Island of Gotland giving the Gotland name of their tribe.
And yet the country of Turkey intregingly isn't named that way because turkeys lived there! Egypt isn't where gypsies come from either. Isn't that intreging? I've just read a DNA research paper that claims that cans didn't originally come from Canada. Thank goodness for science.
@@zipperpillow Only trouble with your 'reply' is, that is where the name comes from. Turks gave the name to Turkey, misunderstanding gave the Roma a handle that was not accurate and Canada, well, that needs your mommy to explain it to you.
@@zipperpillow And Indian people from Kannada are not the same as Indian people from Canada.
@@longinzaczek5857 Unless there is an evolutionary branch we do not know about, NO ONE came from Gotland originally. Of course they came from Sweden, and yes, they had direct kin on the mainland that most likely migrated to other places with them. Gotland is a very productive place, just large enough to hold a decent population, but as any island, unlike the mainland, there is finite land. When there was ideal conditions families could grow exponentially, but there was no room but for one offspring to inherit the land. Without birth control, a healthy population could see families with 5, 7. 10 children. With only enough land for one to inherit, that would prompt the rest to seek a place of their own. On mainland Sweden, there was a little more land, but not enough also. It is quite imaginable that a large population move was needed before starvation set in. History saw waves of closely related peoples migrate from this part of the world over the centuries for the above reason and other reasons.
@edwardjantydorf4174 culture of ancient thracians (do not confuse with later thracians from for example macedonian army or ancient greeks) = culture of slavic people (scythians,many groups different in same way like people considered to be slavs nowadays) / dna of majority of goths = dna of slavic people (r1a) / legends related to invasion of scandinavia (there was a least three waves,new gods killed old gods,same religion,same culture just mixed with old locals there) / battle of doleza or battle of tollense (a few different variations of r1a some unique for polish population some for east slavs,old europeans and locals from scandinavia won with invaders from south of europe) - extremely important / culture of horse raiders from the same time (r1a) / according to ancient romans vandals (rulling over goths from both side and other's) spoke in two languages (one gothic known to them as they simply ruled there lands at this time and one uknown) / land of venedia located in current poland,then their colony called venice nowadays with first woods imported from current region of poland and slovakia (much more might be add) / no place for danzig or other's nonsense form taken from prussification of history while industry period at 19 century :)
Haplogroup I1a is the oldest European DNA coming from the middle east ...Haplogroup I and middle eastern Haplogroup J had genetic fusion....together.....proving to be proto semitic.
thanks for sharing this info ...
Actually, they were australian surfers with this harlogroup! Lets be serious now. Because variety of data occur to one or the other population does not constitute an origin of that data. This is a difficult point to be made, but this is how is approached. Saying that, a lot of research (now!) uses this assumptions with no problem, but only axiomatically, i.e. they assume that is true, for making their job in genetic sequencing concerning bioinformatics. There are and will be many surprises as more information is better analysed. P.S. I did some computational statistics in the past (exploratory data analysis).
The first there r1a indoeuropean
Slavs- Gete
I tried to watch it, but I couldn't take the out-of-focus panels on the edges. I hate that crap!
What was the mitochondrial impact of the Goths?
men will nearly always marry any local women so guessing heavily mixed
Their mitochondrial impact appears to be relatively modest. The Goths, like many migrating warrior elites, likely left a more significant mark on the Y-DNA (paternal lineages) than on mtDNA. This is because the migrating groups were often primarily male, with women from local populations integrating into their communities. As a result, the mtDNA of the regions they moved through and settled in remains largely reflective of the local populations before their arrival.However, there are some traces of mtDNA, particularly in regions where they settled for longer periods, suggesting some level of maternal contribution to the genetic makeup of these populations. This impact, though, is smaller compared to their paternal genetic legacy.
R1A group, that's the Slavs, Afghanistani and Indians now isnt it?
R1a is particularly common among Eastern European Slavic populations, but it also has significant presence in Central and South Asia. The spread of R1a is associated with various ancient migrations, including the Indo-European migrations that contributed to the genetic landscape of many regions.
In Romania( the original visigoths) we are ashamed by the visigoths because they destroyed the Roman Empire and brought 1000 years of dark ages and also they had a heretic religion, arian christianity.
So we say,, they were migratory tribes not us,, but in real they were just geto dacians.
The onlt revered visigoth is Saint Sebas the goth from Buzau( the capital of the visigoths) , a christian martir and a church singer.
Romanians like the Trojan column more than our badass ancestors and theres also the heretic religion that was wiped out from our history.
What on Earth is incredible about this genetic origin ?..That they move a couple of thousands of miles over centuries !..What would be incredible is if they originated in Oceania or the Americas..If you want to talk about incredible migration then I fear we are just now getting started
That they were from Gotland. A lot of people tried to say that such suggestion was far fetched and that they would have other origins, like North Germany (which is the urheimat of Germanics, not Scandinavia) or even Poland itself, where they would not be even Goths or Germanics but maybe "just Polish" or something else altogether. Linguists may be also puzzled because East Germanic and Old Norse are not suppossed to be directly related, etc.
It's credible but goes against what many people have been arguing for many decades.
what sounds like haplogroup A1 is actually R1. damn English!
I1
Their origin millennia ago are Berber Germanic tribes. Over millennia they came to Gutia in east anatolia and Iran. Neighboring Elam to their south. Then they went to Armenia and invented eastern Arrian christianity and Gothic architecture. Then they came to north easter europe in more modern times.
The Goths are generally considered to be a Germanic people who originally migrated from Scandinavia to the regions around the Vistula River (modern-day Poland) during the late Roman period. From there, they moved further south into areas such as Ukraine, where they were part of the Chernyakhov culture.While the Goths did have interactions with various cultures, including the Romans and possibly some Eastern influences, the majority of evidence points to their origins in Northern Europe rather than North Africa or the Middle East. Gothic architecture and Eastern Christianity were later developments that occurred after the Goths had settled in various parts of Europe.
@@evoinception The goths are the same as scythian getae. The royal goths are called Massagetae. Their brothers the Dacians are also called Dehae, who I think is same as Dan.
I dont think germanic berbers originated in “Germany”. Ger means Rex/Reg ie royal.
The goths also use a lot of symbols the gutians use. Only the gutians used them already before 3000bc. For example the swazika and the eagle.
The berbers had arab horses and so did the Gutians.
Since they are indo-european they must have come from the far east at some point.
Just look on Pietroasele treasure of Athanaric on patera and you will see the visigoths grew vineyard. They are celtic because germanics in gotland didnt grew vineyards( because its too cold in sweden).
These celt visigoths wore wings on their helmets like the gauls wich is the most celtic thing to do along with the vineyard coulture.
The visigoths names ending in ric, Athanaric, Alaric, Theodoric, are all celtic like gauls names, Asterix and Obelix.
Being celts means they spoke vulgar latin not germanic.
But they put Ulfillas to write the bible and invent even the runes, in order to spread christianity to the germanics.
Ulfillas himself as well as the visigoths are thracians from romania, known as the getae.
Trust Iordanes!
Visi and Ostro just means East and West. Ric and Rix is a suffix meaning King or Chief in the common language of the Easterners that were all called Keltoi by the early Mediterranean. Wake up from your Romanian 'dream'. The Runes were revealed to Odin as a code of relationship from the lake of Mimer. They have mnemonic value, but were never intended to become an Alphabet... Fugarth, but simply a tool for divination. So far, the only thing you have been correct on is that Ostro-Goths aided the Huns, and especially the Rugii tribe, when Odovacer tried to kill them all off after the death of Atilla (his grandmother was a Ru, who married Hun Chief Balambers' son Ewldin, and sealed a fealty where only her male progeny would lead the Huns, which left cousin Odoacer out. His attempted genocide was a plotted revenge foiled by Thedoric of the OSTRO- Goths, long time partners with the Ru.). You got to get your history streight.
@@johnruge1218 Ric and rix ending is celtic like the gauls and its basically vulgar latin like essen, escu, O and A prefix of the irish and moldovans.
So the visigoths, ostrogoths, anybody with vulgar latin name, spoke vulgar latin.
Rex means king but the sufix has nothing to do with rex.
The ostrogoths spoke vulgar latin, celtic language, they had celtic names like the visigoths and the gepids and were basically same coulture, getae dacians.
The visigoths at times were friwnds with the huns, thats why the visigoths adopted the elongated heads from the huns, but only for womens.
You can see in Toulouse France, where the visigoths settled, the Toulouse deformity wich was that up until recently people had elongated heads there.
If your hungarian you dont even speak an indoeuropean language so its harder for you yo understand celt languages.
All rivers and mountains in Europe have celtic names, from Ireland to the Gange river in India, from. Sweden to the south of Italy.
Celtic language means vulgar latin and oldest vulgar latin is romanian thats the proto indoeuropean.
To put it short, all mountains and rivers in Europe have names from romanian language.
And even your hungarian dna is romanian, celtic.
These getae or dacians, got really far, deep into India not just in Europe and over the Yamnaya.
Sanscrit, the language of budhism comes from vulgar latin from the getae, the romanians.
It got to India then later spread into China.
Read why there are 80 million speakers of romanian language in Asia. Thats what indian sanscrit speakers say,they come from the getae and sanscrit comes from romanian or the language of the getae.
@@johnruge1218 And what does Odin has to do with the goths?
Odin comes from Old Norse mithology but the goths are 700 years before that.
There was no Odin when the visigoths lived in Gotland!
The goths are much older than the norse and the first runes are the gothic runes( letters) that were invented by Ulfillas( a vlach from bulgaria) in the region of Muntenia, valachia, south Romania- more exactly in my city of Buzau wich was the capital of the visigoths.
The visigoths are arian christians, they had bothing to do with Odin or nordic mythology.
Before being christian, they had gods, Dyonissus ( bachus), Diana and later Zamolxis.
Goth and wandal comes from sweden ok
yes however he also said Southern Sweden Scania, that was Denmark until 1667 , and he said east and central Sweden that was Swedes, Gotland have also both been Danish and Swedish but also used a trade hub by Baltic people and I believe Germans although that is after the Goths left , I'm not sure if it belonged to Denmark or Sweden back then
@@veronicajensen7690 The south-central part of Sweden is called Götaland or Gautaland , the leading clans from there were defeated by the Svear around lake Mälaren (whose main outlet to the Baltic Stockholm sits on) , thus giving rise to the name Sweden, or Svea Rike. Then just north east of the Svear you have the Ros from where you have Rusland
Yes, but they were not Germanics!!!
No, goths come from Romania, the getae land.
Getae are known as the dacians too. Thats why they named Sweden, Denmark and Finland Dacia.
Thats why Sweden first writer is Peteus de Dacia 😂.
Romanians( getae dacians) named Sweden Dacia.
Read Iordanes to know where your ancestors come.
Love the human preoccupation of classifying groups of people.
genetics has helped a great deal in finding the origins of many, so as humans we always want to find our roots, hence the great interest ...
It’s called “reason”.
Ancient vikings??
can you elaborate on your question
Goth, Geth, Gepid, German, Gertman, Garamant and basically all other so called Germanic tribes are just different names and factions of one and the same people. Countless ancient writers make this statement.
it is however way more than Tribes beginning with G, Germania was what Rome called all land north of the Roman Empire, Germanic people spread from Scandinavia before they spread into central Europe Celts dominated the area
@@veronicajensen7690 It includes all kinds of names, not just the letter G. Like Franks, Langobards or whatever, Suebi, Aesti, I think even the Slavs belong to the same group of people.
Not a single "ancient writers make this statement". Germans used to be honest people!!! What happened to that???
Getae dacians are the visigoth and gepids and ostrogoths.
They are celtic not germanic.
Ulfillas wasnt germanic too but thracian like the getae.
The gothic language is germanic but wasnt the language of visigiths, gepids and ostrogoths. Because they were celts they spoke vulgar latin.
@@mihaiilie8808 Its not about languages but about ethnicity and culutre. In essence all these tribes belonged to the same civilization, culture and ethnicity, had largely the same religion. differences between celts and germanics are just categorizations of archaeological finds, of aesthetics. It doesnt mean celts and germanics were totally different people.
Cremation skews this video to the "unknown". The Swedes wanted to be Thervingi, then Vikings and now Goths- I wonder if this will workout for them this time around.
Goths are Thracians who originated on the Balkans. They are neither Germanic, nor Slavic Polish. They are not R1a1 but Haplogroup I which is shared between Scandinavia and the Balkans.
The origins of the Goths are indeed a complex and debated topic. While some theories suggest that the Goths may have had connections to the Balkans and the Thracians, the predominant view supported by genetic, linguistic, and archaeological evidence is that the Goths were a Germanic people.Genetic studies indicate that the Goths carried a mix of haplogroups, including I1, which is common in Scandinavia, and R1a, found in many regions, including Poland. The presence of these haplogroups suggests interactions and migrations involving both Scandinavian and local populations.While the idea of Gothic origins in the Balkans is an interesting hypothesis, the evidence largely supports their classification as a Germanic tribe with significant Scandinavian connections.
Going to disagree here, we have Wufilia's Bible which is written in a Germania language, not a Thracian or Dacian.
@@normsti000The Gothic bible has not been found yet , the one in Uppsala is not the Gothic Bible but a fake. Silver ink was non existent at that time.
No they are not, Goths clearly originated from Scandinavia
I would agree there. The theory proposed in the video suggests that haplogroups R1a, R1b and I came to poland from a northern migration. But all three originate on the balkans and are common among the thracian genetic studies. Cremation, as it was mentioned as a gothic ritual was also known as a common ritual among the thracians.
♪♫♥Very interesting - thank you for sharing - 𒀭
Glad you enjoyed it
Vikings are not germanicos
The germanicos are from the east
The culture is indoeuropean
Not viking
The Vikings gods were Aesir , thus came from Asia. The DNA of Scandinavia is mostly a mix of hunter-gatherers with indoeuropeans
@@mattiasdahlstrom2024 yes
Neandertal dna
I don't care a smakka bagms.
Fun fact: The DNA of the Goths is 98.8% identical to the DNA of chimpanzees.
not just for goths ...
Please read the Bock Saga, then you know wy.
lol
@@evoinception That makes me angry.
I would have loved the Scandinavians to be special.
@@jesperlykkeberg7438 All the "Viking Superman wannabes" are wetting their diapers.
In Ukrainian Czerniakhivska cultura
Yes, that's correct, the Chernyakhov culture, also known as Czerniakhivska kultura in Ukrainian, was a significant archaeological culture that existed in what is now Ukraine during the late Roman and early medieval periods. It is often associated with the Goths and other groups such as the Sarmatians, Dacians, and early Slavs. This culture played an important role in the history and development of the region. Thanks for bringing this up...
Lombards were franks
The Arab invasion of Iberia resulted in big piles of chopped off heads on Gothic warriors : a large part of the male DNA ended there during the so called Golden Age.
The visigoths are from the east
Not scandinavians
Its easy to see why WWll happened after reading so many comments of origins. Everyone thinks theyre right and nobody else. Must be everyone looking into crystal balls and just knowing everything before historical records were kept. You're all the master race albeit diluted to one part per million.
History and genetics are complex fields, and our understanding evolves as new evidence comes to light. While discussions about origins can be passionate, it's important to rely on historical records, archaeological findings, and scientific research to form a more accurate picture. The goal is to learn and understand our shared human history, not to claim superiority.
Lol, clearly knows nothing about WWII.
Goths are not visigoths
Goths are not visigoths the same way horses are not ponies. Visigoth means "Western Goths"... they spoke the same language and shared culture.
Visigoths are the Bessi and Getae tribes. Nothing to do with Western and Eastern and as far as I remember from our fake history books the Visigoths were not even located in the West but East.
Visigoths are the oldest goths and the getae dacians from Muntenia, Romania.
They got to make Sweden a colony in order to spread christianity.
They named Sweden Dacia too in official documents 😂.
@@ds-on4sm ukrania
And around that area
The russ
WRONG!!! Serbian DNA markers, haplogroup, Y-hromosome, everything ---> IS same since Lepenski Vir!!!
Mildly supremacist in tenor ....but I guess everybody considers themselves to be amazing or Exceptional.....humans interbreed with each other....so there is no definitive "anything", and little to hold in such high regard....all the Haplo groups come form the same Origin point in the Middle east/Caucasus and those groups originated from an area closer to India and then originally from Africa.....
Leftist bigot detected.
I respectfully disagree with the characterization of the discussion as supremacist. The intent is to explore the fascinating and complex history of human migrations and genetic diversity.
Yes, we know that you know everything. Nothing amazes your great intellect anymore.
This is just embarrassingly bad and speculative, recycling the same old, worn out crap. It was wrong 100 years ago, and it's still wrong now.
100 years ago it was speculative only built on 1800 years old hearsay, but now there's evidence backing up the speculations.
So let's ignore the inconvenient genetic facts, right? So postmodern! Wishful thinking for the win! 🤣
@@LuisAldamiz Agenda driven gibberish, ineptly interpreted.
@@zipperpillow - Genetic FACTS, archaeological FACTS, what else do you need: a time machine?! The only agenda I can see here is the postmodernist promotion of wishful thinking over REALISM.
Sometimes Reality is not how we wanted it to be. No matter which is our ideology or personal preferences, we must accept the facts of Reality. We all have to swallow toads now and then.
@@zipperpillowThe agenda is??
Poland is the origin of the gothic people. Polish ancient historians mentioned this fact in their chronicles. This is confirmed by genetic evidence from Italy. The R1a haplogroup in Italy is located in regions where the Goths settled. Same in Spain.
The origins of the Gothic people are indeed a topic of much interest and research. While some Polish historians have chronicled the Goths' origins in Poland, it's important to consider a broader range of evidence.Genetic studies do show traces of the R1a haplogroup in regions of Italy and Spain where the Goths settled, which aligns with the idea that some Gothic groups might have originated from areas around present-day Poland. However, the Goths were a highly mobile and diverse group, with genetic influences from various regions, including Southern Scandinavia, as supported by both archaeological and genetic data.So, while Poland likely played a significant role in the early history of the Goths, their origins and migrations were complex, involving multiple regions and cultures. Thanks for bringing this interesting topic to the discussion ...
The people you are talking about were Sarmati, who were part of the great nation of GAETI/GETE called Goths later. But they were not the GAETI/GOTHS that these Germans are claiming to be. However Sarmati had the same genetics, and language as these Goths. Sarmati controlled all the lands from Pannonia to the Baltic Sea and were immensely powerful. It was always demand of Sarmati Mercenaries as cavalry, because they were the best. That is where the Polish people love for horses come from. Slavs were never much on horses.
None of the Goths were Germans, except the "lesser Goths" who were Germans mixed with Goths.
So Sweden and Poland.
Real dna of the Goths is today in southern balkans, Italy end Catalunya
The genetic legacy of the Goths can indeed be found in various regions due to their migrations, including the Balkans, Italy, and Catalonia. However, it's important to note that the Goths were a highly mobile and diverse group.So, while there are traces of Gothic DNA in the southern Balkans, Italy, and Catalonia, it represents just one part of the complex genetic tapestry of these regions.
Real visigoths dna is in the getae land in Muntenia,south Romania.
This is where the visigoths started, where Ulfillas wrote the bible. And we are not germanic here, like the visigoths were not germanic.
They had celti cnames, Athanaric, Alaric, they grew vineyards as you can see on Athanaric treasure wich is not germanic coulture and obviously not from. Sweden.
The lie about massive Slavs migration is still alive. Polish people were living in present Polish territory since bronze age. There are descendants from Corded Ware migration from the steppes around 2500BC, same as Scandinavians and Germans.
It's true that the ancestors of modern Polish people have been living in the region since the Bronze Age, with significant continuity from the Corded Ware culture. This culture, which spread from the steppes around 2500 BC, influenced populations across Poland, Scandinavia, and Germany.However, the concept of massive Slavic migrations is based on historical, linguistic, and genetic evidence suggesting significant movements of Slavic-speaking peoples into various parts of Europe during the early medieval period. While there was indeed a continuity of populations in Poland, the migrations contributed to the spread of the Slavic languages and cultural elements.It's important to balance the evidence of long-term continuity with the impacts of later migrations. Both aspects are crucial for understanding the complex history of the region.
No, the Slavs were mentioned for the first time in 5th century AD. by Historians.
But it is true that Sarmati lived there from the beginning, and the Polish people are a mixture of these Sarmati and the advancing Slavs. Slavs advanced peacefully all around Romania and mixed themselves with the locals.
Slavs descend from the Scythians. R1a.
The Slavs are originally the Getae(Goths). Their other name in Bulgarian was Slaveni and means the Glorious. Later on it was applied to all people speaking similar languages. There is no bigger lie than the Slavic migration (arrival of new people) that the world believes in. Basically they erase and falsify the history of Eastern Europe by inventing new people "Slavs" . Those are the Goths(Getae )that were also called Scythians and their migrations.
@@edstar83 No they are not. The Ukrainians, Polish, Serbs and the rest of the Slavic people who surround Romania, do have Skits blood, because they mixed with the Skito-Tracians who were there before the Slavs came around, but not the Russians.
Just a few simple questions - why the Jordan book is called Getica and not Gothica and why enormous ancient writers say the Goths, who were called before Gets/Getae (the famous and enormous Thracian tribe)
The visigoths and gepids are the getae dacians from Romania.
They even named Sweden, Finland and Denmark, Dacia, in official documents 😂.
Trust Iordanes!
The term Getica may have been used by Jordanes to draw a connection between the Goths and the Getae, a Thracian tribe. This connection could be due to several reasons, including the attempt to link the Goths with a more ancient and illustrious heritage. In antiquity, it was not uncommon for tribes to associate themselves with famous predecessors to enhance their prestige and legitimacy.
@@evoinception If you look at tge tribes in Gotland, you will see getsi tribe. Thats how is pronounced in romania.
But the tribe i like the most is the Daikones tribe from Gotland. Literally the dacians.
Just a few simple questions - why the Jordan book is called Getica and not Gothica and why enormous ancient writers say the Goths, who were called before Gets/Getae (the famous and enormous Thracian tribe)