I really wished the game awards take less time to show off movie celebrities in general, even ones who are slightly attached to video games, and focus on popularizing game designers and artists and holding them to the same level of respect that movie actors and directors get. It has only been Kojima and Reggie over the years for the game awards and recently they've been throwing Sam Lake some scraps but I really would like for the video game visionaries to be represented in this event thats supposed to be a celebration of video games. Jason Rubin said once that the only way he managed to stay somewhat relevant (not relevant enough to be a presenter at the game awards though) is that he needed to wholely focus on doing his own marketing for himself rather than letting a producer eat up his legacy, this is what gets the worse of a lot of video game designers and I would genuinely care for the game awards if they threw these people a bone which they have the power to do. Josh Sawyer, Tim Cain, David Jaffe, Yoko Taro, Hideki Kamiya and the list goes on of very well known video game devs in the gaming community that are never even mentioned in these game awards just shows to me that the game awards dont realistically care about the game industry enough. Just comes off as a bunch of payola from the movie industry and I dont like that.
Hell, I'd argue that game devs can be good personalities, better than whatever celeb you trot out. There's a reason why people remember Josef Fares and his "Fuck the Oscars!" outburst. Because it's legitimately funny.
Something I think you glossed over was the impact that every publication nominating 5 games for EACH category has. Remap Radio spike very candidly on this on a recent episde as many of the hosts have or currently vote. It waters down all the categories to "oh I heard that was good" or makes them prone to misconceptions like Dave the Diver. Its why the Plucky Squire is on this year's Indie Category but NOWHERE to be seen on indie specific award shows. And unlike the oscars there are no For Your Consideration groups presenting lesser known titles so nobody can vote on things that they arent specialists in. Thanks for getting all the data on the Awards. I do think people care so much about the awards because it feels like every once in a while theres a really genuine and charming moment that truly celebrated games. It just seems in spite of the show not because if it.
This is a very good point, and I do hit on the point that this is a criticism I have of the Oscars, but did not point out the same thing could be said of TGA (and The DICE Awards for that matter), which is an oversight on my part.
So I broadly get your point but re the plucky squire are you saying it was included in TGAs when it shouldn't have been or that it was snubbed elsewhere?
@@ZuldimYT you're good! I was just adding some recent context Id learned because I wanted to add emphasis to one of your segments. I think it's crazy to assume that any individual ctitic or dev, let alone an entire publication could reasonably know all the best games from every genre and category.
@@MattRandomnumber It was a cute but fairly underwhelming game. I'm saying its trailer was memorable enough to get a nomination on TGAs but it really shouldn't have. This is one of the best years for Indies ever but there aren't enough committees or advocates for the average publication to know about something truly pushing the medium like 1000xResist.
@@jamminjelly117 This is neither here nor there but it's funny you mention 1000xResist, I literally picked it up yesterday after seeing it so high on Jacob Gellar's GOTY list. Haven't started it yet, but nice to hear another endorsement about it.
Its so aggressively commercial. It has always been "Oh god, lets get through a few of these awards quickly so we can get back to the ads or hideo kojima, who will have some god unknown reason to be on stage on year after another, followed by the muppets.
really well-articulated video, pretty much every point is a home run. TGA seems eternally bound to be the way it is, and that can make us feel nihilisticly apathetic, but critisisms are important, because as you say, we are pretty much stuck with them
I'll always appreciate Geoff Keighley for blasting back at Angry Joe during that interview where Angry Joe was just trying to gotchya him with every question
I probably won't do a full video on my thoughts on the 24 show overall, because I've got other projects to finish, but a few thoughts: It was a huge improvement overall. It's still very commercial, I haven't measured this year's ratio but it definitely felt similar to last year. As far as I'm concerned that problem won't be fixed until the ratio is such that every award is actually given out instead of being quickly rattled off. Letting people actually speak showed that they took the criticism from last year to heart. Having Swen Vincke present GOTY, and giving him time to speak, was a nice make good. Highlighting the mass layoffs in the industry this year and giving an honorary award to someone who has helped those laid off find new work was a great use of the platform. You love to see it. Having a companion ASL stream was a really cool touch, I appreciate how the show prioritizes accessibility. Still disappointed the accessibility award got shunted to the preshow again though. Less celebrity cringe this year, and I have a soft spot for Statler and Waldorf so that got me. It was nice seeing Astro Bot win. It was nice seeing a family friendly game get the spotlight. I haven't played it yet, so it's possible my opinion will change once I have. I hope that the improvements this year are a genuine course correction, and not just a gesture to make people less mad at them after last year. My real question is whether next year's show will be right back to the problems from 2023, or if they genuinely took the criticism to heart.
I think another problem with the catetories feeling vague and non distinct is that the same games are nominated for so many categories. Im not sure how to solve this but maybe making the categories not be genre specific could?
I wonder, I do notice the same games getting nominated across the board, but I also think that might just be a thing that's going to naturally happen at awards shows since the games (or films, etc) people are really excited about each year tend to do a lot of things really well. Like Oppenheimer getting nominated for a ton of different categories at the Oscars last year.
Really good video. The only thing I have to say is the best decision Geoff made was adding in the GOTY orchestra. It's consistently been the best part of the awards every year and I always watch the show for their part even if I don't want to see anything else. It's done more to "legitimize" the show then any celebrity Geoff has dragged in.
Before the show I was thinking to myself, "What are they gonna do for Balatro? That music would be hard to fit into an Orchestra" and I hear it and it's best part of the whole song, I couldn't believe it!
I think the award categories need overhauling, with far more specific, and stricter criteria for what is allowed within them, like the Film Oscars. In addition, some categories just need to be gutted, such as Best Content Creator and/or Most Anticipated Game, especially the latter.
one thing i like to add is for the choice of making an 90 10 split on the votes is the player choice category that is still ongoing and we can see 3 gatcha games in there (ZZZ, Wutering wave and genshin). given the previous times they got nominated player do get goodys voting for those games and winning. ofc i don't want to say that all category would be filled with gatcha games when there is an 100% player voting but i do think there is a good point to be made on that regard
Solid, measured, and well researched response on the subject. I believe the categories and nominations need more scrutiny with clearly defined definitions. Hopefully we see more of this added to the game awards as time goes on. I do not agree with the Shadow Of The Erdtree nomination by that logic we could say the expansions like Shadowbringers or Diablo 2 Lord Of Destruction are GOTY material you cannot exactly experience or enjoy what’s on offer without playing through the entire game. It’s very questionable and hopefully they course correct.
This is probably the best video about the TGA I've watched. I agree with so much of what you said and you were very constructive with your talking points.
Fyi, the drive links in the description give a “Request Permission” prompt, though, thanks to your onscreen citations I was still able to find the source I was looking for, but regardless thought you should know
It just felt so wrong that I stopped watching the GA couple of years ago. The show itself is an advertisement by nature, but having all that extra ads and sponsors and everything else, just made me feel almost more exploited than some of the poor sobs in the industry who get worked to death (or insanity if you prefer), just so that billionaires get even richer.
Hm... Defo agree with a lot of your points here, but I also feel like you're being too generous to the game awards--the way you word your talking points almost sounds like you're underplaying the negative elements of the show. I understand that you don't want to come across like you're making these points in bad faith, but I can't help but feel like you overcorrected here.
I take your point. I feel like there's a lot of bad faith, cheap criticism of TGA out there for clout, and I don't think all of it is fair. I wanted this video to be grounded in fact as much as possible, rather than selling my audience anger, so I did make a conscious effort to keep my language neutral where possible, and I can see the argument that doing so downplays their problems. I tried to be blunt with the things I think are major issues however (the categories being bad, the ratio of advertising being out of control, the show being embarrassing to watch) and I mention that Eurogamer article towards the end in order to highlight a far more negative piece about the show. It was a difficult tightrope to walk between going easy on them and selling outrage, so at a certain point I can only hope that the actual facts and statistics which I presented make the case for me without leaning on hostile language.
@@ZuldimYT Yeah I see where you're coming from here, and your points did come across very well in the vid. Thanks for taking the time to explain your reasoning here :)
Im 2 and a half minutes in but I simply can't agree with the idea that it matters because people watch. The Kardashians is an invaluable precious piece of media by that logic.
The difference is that The Game Awards is specifically an awards show, something which people ostensibly use to gauge what media they should engage with, and what's the "best" of a given year. The Kardashians was a self-contained reality show and brand, not something that was billing itself as an authority on an art form. If you want to compare it to a celebrity tv show, I would argue it's closer to something like Siskel and Ebert (or, of course, the Oscars). I am not arguing that popular = good, I am saying that when something that is positioning itself as the arbiter of what makes media "good" gains that level of following, it *does* influence the industry overall. Like The Oscars, it can make and break careers, steer the conversation around certain games, and push people to play games like Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, or Alan Wake 2, when they otherwise wouldn't. In no way am I saying that their popularity makes them good, I am saying their popularity makes them consequential, and so ignoring them will only allow their problems to get worse.
@@StinkyBusterOh, well since you said it with the word "lmao" in front of it, you must be right. You don't think Neil Newborn has any more fans after winning best performance last year? You don't think Josef Faris "fuck the Oscars" speech had any impact on his next game catching on in a big way? You don't think Christopher Judge going from (I say this lovingly) C-list tv actor to mainstay of The Game Awards has made him more marketable at all? You don't think the musical performance everyone went crazy for last year sold any extra copies of Alan Wake 2? Yes, they probably aren't *on the level* of the Oscars, but they've been running for a decade, not nearly a century. Stick your head in the sand and pretend they don't impact careers and sales of games all you like, you are simply wrong.
You truly overthought it. This show is a glorified industry circlejerk. They only pretend to care for gamers because it makes them look good to their peers. Its exactly like the Oscars but with less "class" because its video games and everyone involved doesnt have any star power. Should be renamed to "The Game Advertisements".
I really wished the game awards take less time to show off movie celebrities in general, even ones who are slightly attached to video games, and focus on popularizing game designers and artists and holding them to the same level of respect that movie actors and directors get. It has only been Kojima and Reggie over the years for the game awards and recently they've been throwing Sam Lake some scraps but I really would like for the video game visionaries to be represented in this event thats supposed to be a celebration of video games. Jason Rubin said once that the only way he managed to stay somewhat relevant (not relevant enough to be a presenter at the game awards though) is that he needed to wholely focus on doing his own marketing for himself rather than letting a producer eat up his legacy, this is what gets the worse of a lot of video game designers and I would genuinely care for the game awards if they threw these people a bone which they have the power to do. Josh Sawyer, Tim Cain, David Jaffe, Yoko Taro, Hideki Kamiya and the list goes on of very well known video game devs in the gaming community that are never even mentioned in these game awards just shows to me that the game awards dont realistically care about the game industry enough. Just comes off as a bunch of payola from the movie industry and I dont like that.
Hell, I'd argue that game devs can be good personalities, better than whatever celeb you trot out. There's a reason why people remember Josef Fares and his "Fuck the Oscars!" outburst. Because it's legitimately funny.
Something I think you glossed over was the impact that every publication nominating 5 games for EACH category has. Remap Radio spike very candidly on this on a recent episde as many of the hosts have or currently vote. It waters down all the categories to "oh I heard that was good" or makes them prone to misconceptions like Dave the Diver. Its why the Plucky Squire is on this year's Indie Category but NOWHERE to be seen on indie specific award shows. And unlike the oscars there are no For Your Consideration groups presenting lesser known titles so nobody can vote on things that they arent specialists in.
Thanks for getting all the data on the Awards. I do think people care so much about the awards because it feels like every once in a while theres a really genuine and charming moment that truly celebrated games. It just seems in spite of the show not because if it.
This is a very good point, and I do hit on the point that this is a criticism I have of the Oscars, but did not point out the same thing could be said of TGA (and The DICE Awards for that matter), which is an oversight on my part.
So I broadly get your point but re the plucky squire are you saying it was included in TGAs when it shouldn't have been or that it was snubbed elsewhere?
@@ZuldimYT you're good! I was just adding some recent context Id learned because I wanted to add emphasis to one of your segments. I think it's crazy to assume that any individual ctitic or dev, let alone an entire publication could reasonably know all the best games from every genre and category.
@@MattRandomnumber It was a cute but fairly underwhelming game. I'm saying its trailer was memorable enough to get a nomination on TGAs but it really shouldn't have. This is one of the best years for Indies ever but there aren't enough committees or advocates for the average publication to know about something truly pushing the medium like 1000xResist.
@@jamminjelly117 This is neither here nor there but it's funny you mention 1000xResist, I literally picked it up yesterday after seeing it so high on Jacob Gellar's GOTY list. Haven't started it yet, but nice to hear another endorsement about it.
Its so aggressively commercial. It has always been "Oh god, lets get through a few of these awards quickly so we can get back to the ads or hideo kojima, who will have some god unknown reason to be on stage on year after another, followed by the muppets.
really well-articulated video, pretty much every point is a home run. TGA seems eternally bound to be the way it is, and that can make us feel nihilisticly apathetic, but critisisms are important, because as you say, we are pretty much stuck with them
I'll always appreciate Geoff Keighley for blasting back at Angry Joe during that interview where Angry Joe was just trying to gotchya him with every question
Oh man I haven't thought about that incident in years
67% is a number that sounds crazy but feels right.
It would be awesome to hear your full thoughts on what the show fixed or didn't fix this year,
Awesome video by the way
I probably won't do a full video on my thoughts on the 24 show overall, because I've got other projects to finish, but a few thoughts:
It was a huge improvement overall.
It's still very commercial, I haven't measured this year's ratio but it definitely felt similar to last year. As far as I'm concerned that problem won't be fixed until the ratio is such that every award is actually given out instead of being quickly rattled off.
Letting people actually speak showed that they took the criticism from last year to heart.
Having Swen Vincke present GOTY, and giving him time to speak, was a nice make good.
Highlighting the mass layoffs in the industry this year and giving an honorary award to someone who has helped those laid off find new work was a great use of the platform. You love to see it.
Having a companion ASL stream was a really cool touch, I appreciate how the show prioritizes accessibility. Still disappointed the accessibility award got shunted to the preshow again though.
Less celebrity cringe this year, and I have a soft spot for Statler and Waldorf so that got me.
It was nice seeing Astro Bot win. It was nice seeing a family friendly game get the spotlight. I haven't played it yet, so it's possible my opinion will change once I have.
I hope that the improvements this year are a genuine course correction, and not just a gesture to make people less mad at them after last year. My real question is whether next year's show will be right back to the problems from 2023, or if they genuinely took the criticism to heart.
I think another problem with the catetories feeling vague and non distinct is that the same games are nominated for so many categories. Im not sure how to solve this but maybe making the categories not be genre specific could?
I wonder, I do notice the same games getting nominated across the board, but I also think that might just be a thing that's going to naturally happen at awards shows since the games (or films, etc) people are really excited about each year tend to do a lot of things really well. Like Oppenheimer getting nominated for a ton of different categories at the Oscars last year.
Really good video.
The only thing I have to say is the best decision Geoff made was adding in the GOTY orchestra. It's consistently been the best part of the awards every year and I always watch the show for their part even if I don't want to see anything else. It's done more to "legitimize" the show then any celebrity Geoff has dragged in.
Hearing the Balatro music fully orchestrated this year was so wild.
Before the show I was thinking to myself, "What are they gonna do for Balatro? That music would be hard to fit into an Orchestra" and I hear it and it's best part of the whole song, I couldn't believe it!
@@GunnGuardian It was genuinely very impressive how well they managed to translate it. Probably my highlight of the show as well.
you're popular in my heart......
❤
I think the award categories need overhauling, with far more specific, and stricter criteria for what is allowed within them, like the Film Oscars.
In addition, some categories just need to be gutted, such as Best Content Creator and/or Most Anticipated Game, especially the latter.
huh, I've never thought about video games genres being so blurred
Been watching TGAs every year since Silksong got announced almost exclusively hoping to get a release date, RIP.
one thing i like to add is for the choice of making an 90 10 split on the votes is the player choice category that is still ongoing and we can see 3 gatcha games in there (ZZZ, Wutering wave and genshin). given the previous times they got nominated player do get goodys voting for those games and winning.
ofc i don't want to say that all category would be filled with gatcha games when there is an 100% player voting but i do think there is a good point to be made on that regard
That's an excellent example of the problem with a pure public vote and how one can easily be socially engineered.
Solid, measured, and well researched response on the subject. I believe the categories and nominations need more scrutiny with clearly defined definitions. Hopefully we see more of this added to the game awards as time goes on. I do not agree with the Shadow Of The Erdtree nomination by that logic we could say the expansions like Shadowbringers or Diablo 2 Lord Of Destruction are GOTY material you cannot exactly experience or enjoy what’s on offer without playing through the entire game. It’s very questionable and hopefully they course correct.
0:37 That was WILD shotout ngl 😮
If those are the qualifications for goty, every studio should just re-release their highest rated game every year
They do there called remakes
While this video still hasn't convinced me to care about/watch the game awards....
I was entertained watching it. Thank you.
This is probably the best video about the TGA I've watched. I agree with so much of what you said and you were very constructive with your talking points.
Fyi, the drive links in the description give a “Request Permission” prompt, though, thanks to your onscreen citations I was still able to find the source I was looking for, but regardless thought you should know
Thank you, they should be working correctly now.
@@ZuldimYT They are, thank you!
Wake up babe new Zuldim just dropped
If Elden Ring DLC wins this year, TGA 2024 will have no Game of the Year.
We need all the ads so we can take bathroom breaks and get food during the show.
Helldivers should be in place of SOTE
If we get Silksong in this TGA im gonna throw a party
See, that line in the script works out because if it's wrong I'm a clown like everyone else, and if it's right I'm a prophet.
only 40 minutes in but really respect the spreadsheet math 💙 please keep doing what you're doing and I'll be commenting more later
Please wrap it up
It just felt so wrong that I stopped watching the GA couple of years ago. The show itself is an advertisement by nature, but having all that extra ads and sponsors and everything else, just made me feel almost more exploited than some of the poor sobs in the industry who get worked to death (or insanity if you prefer), just so that billionaires get even richer.
Overthinking is kind off an understatement lol
I watch the game awards for the actual awards and also for new game announcements
Skong will be announced any minute now!!!1!11!!
Great video
BRING BACK HYDROBOT!
so far this is a good video
I like the cut of Geoff's jib. 🤷♂️
game awards show are more like 4 hrs of ads and smelling their own farts. 😂😂😂
Game Awards have always been cringe
Hm... Defo agree with a lot of your points here, but I also feel like you're being too generous to the game awards--the way you word your talking points almost sounds like you're underplaying the negative elements of the show. I understand that you don't want to come across like you're making these points in bad faith, but I can't help but feel like you overcorrected here.
I take your point. I feel like there's a lot of bad faith, cheap criticism of TGA out there for clout, and I don't think all of it is fair. I wanted this video to be grounded in fact as much as possible, rather than selling my audience anger, so I did make a conscious effort to keep my language neutral where possible, and I can see the argument that doing so downplays their problems.
I tried to be blunt with the things I think are major issues however (the categories being bad, the ratio of advertising being out of control, the show being embarrassing to watch) and I mention that Eurogamer article towards the end in order to highlight a far more negative piece about the show.
It was a difficult tightrope to walk between going easy on them and selling outrage, so at a certain point I can only hope that the actual facts and statistics which I presented make the case for me without leaning on hostile language.
@@ZuldimYT Yeah I see where you're coming from here, and your points did come across very well in the vid. Thanks for taking the time to explain your reasoning here :)
Hear me out. Adam Sessler and Morgan Webb
Erdtree is not a full game
Im 2 and a half minutes in but I simply can't agree with the idea that it matters because people watch. The Kardashians is an invaluable precious piece of media by that logic.
The difference is that The Game Awards is specifically an awards show, something which people ostensibly use to gauge what media they should engage with, and what's the "best" of a given year. The Kardashians was a self-contained reality show and brand, not something that was billing itself as an authority on an art form. If you want to compare it to a celebrity tv show, I would argue it's closer to something like Siskel and Ebert (or, of course, the Oscars).
I am not arguing that popular = good, I am saying that when something that is positioning itself as the arbiter of what makes media "good" gains that level of following, it *does* influence the industry overall. Like The Oscars, it can make and break careers, steer the conversation around certain games, and push people to play games like Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, or Alan Wake 2, when they otherwise wouldn't.
In no way am I saying that their popularity makes them good, I am saying their popularity makes them consequential, and so ignoring them will only allow their problems to get worse.
@ZuldimYT lmao the Game Awards are not impacting careers like the Oscar's 😅
@@StinkyBusterOh, well since you said it with the word "lmao" in front of it, you must be right.
You don't think Neil Newborn has any more fans after winning best performance last year?
You don't think Josef Faris "fuck the Oscars" speech had any impact on his next game catching on in a big way?
You don't think Christopher Judge going from (I say this lovingly) C-list tv actor to mainstay of The Game Awards has made him more marketable at all?
You don't think the musical performance everyone went crazy for last year sold any extra copies of Alan Wake 2?
Yes, they probably aren't *on the level* of the Oscars, but they've been running for a decade, not nearly a century. Stick your head in the sand and pretend they don't impact careers and sales of games all you like, you are simply wrong.
@ZuldimYT No I don't. Not in a way that makes the Game Awards specifically important.
@@StinkyBusterAgree to disagree.
ily
You truly overthought it. This show is a glorified industry circlejerk. They only pretend to care for gamers because it makes them look good to their peers. Its exactly like the Oscars but with less "class" because its video games and everyone involved doesnt have any star power. Should be renamed to "The Game Advertisements".
❤😊
Imagine getting angry over the game awards lol This is like getting angry over who gets a Grammy or Oscar 😂
Imagine leaving this comment without realizing the video is about the production of the show and not the winners 😂
@ZuldimYT sorry, not watching a 1 hour rant when I could be idk, playing video games and appreciating the work people made instead
@@Professor_Utonium_ Or spending that time leaving comments on videos you didn't watch, clearly a good use of your seconds spent on this earth.
@@ZuldimYT Likewise, buddy. Likewise.
@@Professor_Utonium_What? I've watched my own video, I assure you. 😅
watching this after this years gamer awards and this is a fantastic video and really well articulated my thoughts on the show. keep up the good work 🫡
39:05 or you can be in Russia from where YT premium is pulled off.😅