Lithium Battery Install and WFCO Converter Charger Issue
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- We are sharing our experience with a battery upgrade to lithium and the trouble with our Converter Charger!
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What are your thoughts? We would love to hear from you! Comment Below! ~ Brad and Diana
As I stated to another commenter, proper cable sizing is critical whether you are using auto detect or not. If you are not getting the proper charge current to the batteries, you will seriously shorten the number of cycles your batteries have in them. Compare the cable size your unit has with what a battery cable size chart recommends for the distance between your battery and charger. If your cables are too small, I would recommend pointing it out to the dealer where you purchased your unit. You may be able to get them to replace the charge cables with the proper size.
I watched a WFCO rep on a video say that they removed the switch to eliminate user error….i.e. they are saying that (we) aren’t smart enough to know what batteries we have, ridiculous. They should have left well enough alone. Great video, thanks.
I totally agree!! ~Brad
It is ridiculous not to have a switch!
Exactly but they think we are smart enough to remove the converter and send it back because their junk doesnt work as stated. Pathetic
I'm in the process of ripping all my WFCO gear out. First the converter, then my inverter. I'm glad I found this before dropping my LiTime 200A battery in place.
Vitron energy makes really good equipment so does Progressive Dynamics… good luck.
PowerMax makes a good, affordable alternative.
I currently find myself in the same rabbit hole you were in. Thanks for the video. It was helpful to know that I'm not the only one that has encountered this issue.
Oh sorry to hear that; we hope it’s resolved quickly for you ~Brad and Diana
It's unfortunate, but in my experience, the only way to make auto detect work properly is to up-size your charge cables. You can look up a battery cable size chart that will tell you what size cable you need for the number of feet between battery and charger. This proper sizing is critical whether you are using an auto detect unit or not. The battery simply will not charge properly unless the cable is large enough to carry the charge current the proper distance. Undersized cables will seriously shorten the life of your batteries.
Great video and very great or info. I have the WFCO auto detect. how would I know if I have the proper firmware? I have not I installed the lithium battery yet.
Thank you! If you take the cover off the fuse box it will have a sticker with the current firmware; If you call WFCO they will tell you if the one you have is correct. ~Brad
So as a follow-up: 1. Did you get the replacement WFCO unit with the updated firmware? 2. If so, what firmware update number is it (should be a label inside the access door showing the firmware version number)? 3. If you got the updated unit, does it now charge your lithium batteries correctly? I just got a new RV with the WFCO Auto-Detect (firmware version 1.19) and am considering changing the batteries over to lithium. There are a lot of folks with the same Auto-Detect problem and why WFCO changed from a simple switch operation to this "auto" function just hasn't worked out very well.
Yes; we got the replacement unit with the updated firmware; it did arrive overnight. We did not pay attention to the firmware update number as the factory had locked it for lithium for us; the blue light is on and it is charging our batteries to the recommended voltage. Good luck in your journey, I would recommend you speak to Derrick at WFCO if you have any problems. ~Brad and Diana
Just curious. So if I have my information correct, the reason for the converter in this situation is to charge the batteries when plugged into "shore" power or generator...true? Seems like the existing converter would still "sort of" do what it's supposed to do minus charging the Li batteries which could be done by the solar panel(s). In the grand scheme of things you would want the converter to do what it should; charge the 12V Li batteries and provide 12VDC power but could it have been left as is?
The converter charger “it’s proper name“ is used for what you think it is when you are plugged into shore power. It actually runs your coach instead of your batteries, and it charges the batteries at the same time. the trick comes in when you have different types of batteries, whether they are a wet acid batteries and AGM battery or lithium battery. Those batteries all take different rates; they can accept charges faster or slower depending on their type, so if you spend the money to put lithium batteries in your coach, one of the first things you need to know is that lithium batteries are fully charged at 14.5 V DC. You need for the converter charger to charge that battery to 14.5 V or the battery will never be fully charged, allowing you to get maximum usage out of it. To answer your question could I leave it alone? Yes, I could, but the batteries would never fully charged. They wouldn’t last as long. Can the solar charge the batteries? So long as your solar charge controller is set up for a lithium battery, it will eventually charge the batteries. However, if you have, for instance, 200 A of lithium battery capability, and only 100 A of solar panel capability, it would take a very long time to charge the batteries. Solar panels don’t work well on cloudy days or in shade or if they are dirty… it’s usually a good idea to have twice as much solar as you do battery, hopefully this helps. I am not a solar technician. I’ve just done a fair amount of research. ~Brad
Makes total sense. Thanks!!@@ItsAboutTimeNow
Thank you for the video. It was very well done.
Great to see your comment! ~Brad and Diana
Just bought a 2023 25BRDS MICROLITE and want to go to lithium. Thank you very much for sharing!
We wish you the best of luck with your upgrade; We think lithium is the way to go. Great to hear from you ~Brad and Diana
Thank you, I enjoyed your video. Real informative 👍 Stay safe
Awesome! Glad you liked it~ Brad and Diana
I had to smile, imagining the conversations you and Tony would have had over these issues!
Glad it made you smile; we miss him too ~Brad and Diana
So is the new inverter now detecting your Lithium batteries? Great modification, great video very informative. Thinking of doing the same. Can you please add and post links to where you bought everything.
At this time, we are still waiting for the new converter to arrive, but we will let you know. Good news we got most everything from Amazon. We will go ahead and post links in the description shortly. Good luck on your install.~Brad and Diana
Question about your lithium setup. I have read about problems with the alternator on the tow vehicle getting damaged because of lithium battery charging while towing........but they said it primarily happens if the lithium battery is drained to a low level and draws a lot of current while charging. Have you run into this, or has any dealer or supplier mentioned it?
It is certainly possible; we have not experienced it. We have not allowed our batteries to get that low. We live in Florida, so our solar panel does a good job of topping off the batteries. Most automobiles are not designed to charge lithium But no dealers have mentioned it.
We carry a generator, so if we boondocked and the batteries got low, we could charge the batteries with the generator. ~Brad
@@ItsAboutTimeNow Thanks for your reply. I have been considering the upgrade to lithium and the WFCO conv/chgr, and I am just trying to make sure I cover all the bases, so that I don't run into problems. I've seen, on other videos, a device (relay) that supposedly stops current flow from the alternator to the lithium batteries if the flow is above a certain amount. Thanks again.
Thank you so much for the video I just upgraded my battery to a lithium in are 2023 2205S I will make sure it is charging correctly. Thinking about doing all Victron in the future anyway.
We sure like Victron! Great to hear from you! ~Brad and Diana
The auto detect model can have a jumper installed to force the unit into Lithium only charging if you are only going to use Lithium in your camper. I went this route rather than sending my unit back for a software upgrade.
Glad that worked out for you; this option was not offered to me by the manufacturer. ~Brad
By chance did you make a how to video?
I'm in the same situation with my 2022 22FBS. After your jumper install, did the volts and amperage jump up to recommended levels? WFCO is sending me a jumper right now, but is also recommending I return the unit for a firmware upgrade. The warranty department will be reaching out to me next week. I'm not opposed to that, but don't really want to deal with any downtime if not absolutely necessary. I will ask them about just sending the new unit first and then I'll be happy to return this one.
Can you provide insight on the process
Hi guys, I’m having the same issue with auto-detect. Just making contact with WFCO. Wondering if you received the replacement charger and if so, did it work as expected? If not, I’m going to buy Progressive. Thanks, Rick
Yes we did receive the new one; and WFCO had it already set for Lithium for us. Hope this helps
@@ItsAboutTimeNow just confirming, does it change as expected now?
It charges as expected now, yes. 👍
I bet they used a jumper. In which jumper=switch in a round about way
I have a 2022 puma 26RBSS with a wfco panel wf9560Lis and there is a switch for lead acid or lithium batteries. It's red and is behind the red(positive) cable on the front of the panel. I just installed 2 12v 100ah power queen batteries and have 2 100w portable solar panels. I will let you know how it works.
We wish you the best; the auto detect converters do not have a switch
Sure is great that you are handy. Plug and Play is something like when I go out to buy something that says, One Size Fits All! lol Live and learn...now all others will know what to expect! Excellent! Bruce and Otis
Live and learn is right! It’s always something lol Great to hear from you! ~Brad and Diana
We are having the same issue, our rig came with Lithium batteries plus the WFCO autodetect converter and like your issue it was not detecting and charging the batteries correctly based on how the converter was designed. The only thing we had charging correctly was the solar package. I have contacted our dealer and Airstream and they act like I am crazy. Of course their only answer is bring it in and we will trouble shoot the issue since it is still under warranty. There only solution would be to remove the converter and send it back to WFCO for an update. Based on previous warranty work I would expect this to take several months, I am not happy but they don't seem to care. Thanks for the video.
Contact WFCO directly; it is possible that your lithium batteries can be auto detected since they were installed, I assume, at the factory. There are also excellent videos on how to tell if the charge converter is actually in lithium mode. If you are any type of a mechanical person as it does require you to access the converter. Once I was able to get to the right person at the WFCO, they actually sent me a converter that was already in lithium mode, and it was a fairly easy install, and I simply returned the other converter to the company. Contact Derek directly. Best of luck.
What is the current firmware?
My blue light is on but voltage max is 13.6. I had assumed it would go into the 14.4 range?
Yes… ours went to 13.6… same thing… you would think it would…. That’s a great question to ask WFCO
@@ItsAboutTimeNow - the solar panel definitely takes it to 14.4 not sure I want to mess with calling them?
@@ItsAboutTimeNow - I’ll call them this week. The panel says it should charge to 14.6 (Lithium)
Lions Energy was a good buy for me and the fit in the battery box. Great warranty and military discount. Nice job on the new set up.
Excellent ; super to hear from you. Did yours have a heater? ~ Brad and Diana
@@ItsAboutTimeNow that’s nice yours has a heater. I don’t know if they sell batteries with heaters. Mine will tell me temp and connect to phone but not that fancy. It would be nice though.
I was understanding that a standard converter would charge the lithium batteries up to about 80% but very slowly.
That’s correct…. But only 80%
What is the firmware update number that is correct?
If you give WFCO a call, they will be happy to give you that information; I can’t remember it off hand. ~Brad
Getting ready to install lithium. I have the WFCO Auto. I see so many problems that I’m just going to replace the converter or get a converter/inverter all in one. WFCO is not the only player in town.
That’s correct… I hear Victron makes a good unit. ~Brad and Diana
If you are in the market for a new converter with a lithium switch, I can point you to a good, affordable alternative to the WFCO. The company I am referring to sells a full line of RV power management products.
@@JamesWinter-h3l
And who is the company you are referring to?
@@KeithHeil-zk6vl The company I work for markets a similar product in the OEM space. The company I am referring to in the aftermarket space is PowerMax. They offer a full range of converters and power centers in both 30 and 50 amp. They have units that are pretty much direct replacements for any WFCO model. They also have some unique features that others do not. All of the DC outputs are pre-wired, so all you have to do is connect your DC wires at the back of the unit with wago connectors, which are provided. They also have power centers with built in Bluetooth, so you have app control of slide-outs, awnings and lights without having to purchase an expensive control system.
I do not work for PowerMax, but I love the product. It's easier to install, and has some really cool features. And rather than Auto-detect, it has a simple switch to select either lithium or lead-acid.
I cannot answer with an exact voltage#. I have to take into account what my solar is inputting. Seems like over night first thing in the morning I would see 13.6-13.8, the solar would occasionally take batteries up to 14. 14.1. So many variables in this @ what the battery bms is allowing, how much draw on battery, how much sun.
Absolutely so many variables
My 2023 Rockwood 5th wheel has the WFCO auto detect converter. My converter has worked perfectly. I have 2 Epoch 100amp hr. Self heating batteries. Very happy with the converter /battery set up.
That is great! Now that we have the one with the updated Firmware, ours is working correctly with our lithium batteries too. ~Brad and Diana
What voltage are you seeing at the charge controller with the WFCO to your batteries. Mine shows 13.6 max/continuous (blue light is on).
@@sboy1955 -Following this. Just dropped in a new 230Ah lithium battery in place of the two lead acids. My solar will take it up over 14V (on the solar charge controller panel), but I haven't even plugged in to shore power yet to check the charger operation. Seeing the numerous "auto detect" posts has me curious.
@@danmech123 - Sounds like a decent battery. I’m running a single 190ah and a 200w solar panel which shows 14.2+ on really sunny days. The WF8935AD states inside the door panel that it provides 13.6 lead / 14.6 lithium. I’ve never seen it go past 13.6. The converter recognized that I am running lithium, blue light’s on, etc? I read today (forum search) they recognize this problem and they have a jumper plug to fix it. Gonna call them early this week.
@@sboy1955 - Cool. I've got to bring the trailer home sometime this week to work on my battery relocation to the inside. While here, I'll plug to shore and see what mine does. Maybe I'll disconnect solar and then run the battery down so it should detect easier. Just a thought. Let us know how your conversation goes about the jumper plug. That would seem the most logical plan for sure.
Nothing is easy with RVs, but they are worth the effort. Very interesting TFS 🎃 Happy Halloween🍁
Absolutely! Great to hear from you ~Brad and Diana
Hi Brad and Diana. I am a tech support guy for a company that sells RV power systems similar to the products you are talking about. This message is not about trying to sell you anything. Before my current job, I ran the electrical department at one of Forest River's plants. I installed the converters you are discussing. I did a ton of research on auto detect. What I found was that auto detect works great on a test bench, but not so much in an actual RV. The problem is that RV builders never put big enough charge cables in. They usually use 6 ga wire. At an average distance of 10' between battery and charger, there is so much voltage drop that the charger can not accurately measure the voltage. You need to step up to something like 2 ga for it to work, and wire is expensive. In the future, I would recommend that if you are going to use a WFCO product, go with one that has the lithium switch.
I can’t speak for previous years, but when we bought our 2023 unit, our RV came with 2 ga wires. I did not pick the WFCO product; that is just what Forest River was using. If I were choosing a unit, it would not be WFCO, and certainly one that had a lithium switch for sure. Great recommendation ~Brad and Diana
This is .
Great video, but i am still not sold on solar.
Lol great to hear from you. Hope you’re doing well. So far we think we like our solar. ~Brad and Diana
We had to update our converter before we installed our lithium and solar. Oh, salespeople, they really don't know their rigs!
Sadly, it’s not just the salespeople lol… but you are right the salespeople don’t know the rigs. ~Brad and Diana
@@ItsAboutTimeNow absolutely true!
Occam's razor states that the simplest solution is preferable to one that is more complex. WFCO should have just stayed with the switch!
Indeed! Also known as the KISS method… keep it simple… great to hear from you ~Brad and Diana
my wf 8955 ad works flawless with lipo or lead acid
Glad you are doing great 😊
NEVER EVER beleive what a salesman says.
Wow… Number One Best piece of advice there is! Great to hear from you! ~Brad and Diana
Learned that the hard way. Ugh