Yep. Pretty much same thing we do as well. Though in my studio, for some reason, usually the kick and snare need to be flipped - but not always. So we check every time.
One of my most used plugins is a free VST called PhaseBug; it allows you to adjust the phase at any point along a 360° axis, so you can get perfect phasing with none of the weird issues that come with bumping tracks.
It’s tricky. Your floor tom track seems to kill some of the snare in the OH when flipped, but fattens the tom. The hard part (for me) is moving the tom mic until both it and the snare track are very out of phase with the OH, so then reversing their polarity retains both. Ugh science is fun
Sorry I’m just learning, you mean activate and deactivate the polarity switch right? I check the phase by flipping the polarity. Does that sound correct ?
What about nudging? Is that ever used while visually comparing the waveforms instead of just hitting the phase switch? Seems like you could get more precise that way. Thoughts?
It's never a good idea, from my perspective. It can appear to fix the problem you are focusing on at that moment, but it always comes at the expense of other details - often unpredictable ones. A good drum technique can be partially judged by how tight of a phase arrangement they can achieve. Moving audio files is not something you want to do, from my perspecitive.
My drum tracks are diapering I see them om my recorder but not getting any or little sound though my board ,, This is soon after adding a condenser mic , lost my kick drum and my floor tom ,, I guess I need to remove that Mic ,,, Or place it elsewhere ??
Thanks for this video! Very well explained. One question - if I don't use an overhead center microphone, would a good alternative be to sum my stereo overheads to mono and do this same process?
Actually, the better thing would be to use ONE of your stereo overheads. Get it in phase with the other overhead, then the snare, then the kick, the toms, etc. Does that make sense?
Brian McTear That makes sense, but how would I get the overheads in phase? Is this something that absolutely must be done during tracking or would sliding the tracks into phase be an okay alternative?
Daniel Busche Some people do this, but it has never worked well for me. Sliding one thing, from my experience ALWAYS causes problems elsewhere. When we record we measure the mic distance in a certain way that, for us at least, always results in properly aligned overheads. People sliding around tracks as a matter of course seems like kind of a bad idea to me. Even so, if it works for them that's fine.
Brian McTear Very cool. Thanks! I would be really interested to learn how you measure the microphones. It seems like a very consistent method, especially if it was a ratio. Maybe that way you could adjust distances to yield a more roomy tone while still being in phase?
+Brian McTear how do you measure? Because the snare mic is obviously up to about 10 times closer? I had some sucess sliding snare into phase, BUT to its closest 'cycle', and after seeing if flipping works (so it might even be aligning a dip to a peak)....rather than all time aligned to the note start... and for the ambient mic i bring it even more delayed so its just out of that 'phase area' ....which might be an improvement.....But personally i find it difficult listening out for phase changes when i've got headphones on infront of the kit, so I wondered if there's a set rule-of-thumb for aligning mics that are different distances? Also i tried aligning the kick and snare, by measuring but what happens if one OH is positioned so it can't 'see' the beater??
Most times when we're recording it is 180 degrees out of phase. We tend to mix our own drums which are measured out when they are recorded. Even so, 9/10 times we find that flipped 180 is the safest adjustment to make. We've found that when we try to bump waveforms, certain problems may be fixed, but others are discovered later, caused by the bump. So we use this process and for us it works.
+musicguy2k some things are...If you are on two sides of the drum, this can often happen for example. That's just push/pull vibrations of having something on opposite sides of the vibrating skin. so if you were to have mics as in phase as possible the only way is a polarity flip. Sometimes the overhead might be behind the kick skin or in front, so the kick varies. or maybe you use top and bottom snare which is always flipped.
I usually always flip the hase of overhead mics and find the rest of the top mics to be in-phase with those after doing so.
Yep. Pretty much same thing we do as well. Though in my studio, for some reason, usually the kick and snare need to be flipped - but not always. So we check every time.
One of my most used plugins is a free VST called PhaseBug; it allows you to adjust the phase at any point along a 360° axis, so you can get perfect phasing with none of the weird issues that come with bumping tracks.
Duuude thank you
It’s tricky. Your floor tom track seems to kill some of the snare in the OH when flipped, but fattens the tom. The hard part (for me) is moving the tom mic until both it and the snare track are very out of phase with the OH, so then reversing their polarity retains both. Ugh science is fun
We almost always mute the audio between tome hits. So you wouldn't use the tom mic in order to get your snare sound. Does that make suense?
@@brianmctear9266 makes sense. I go in and delete everything but the full tom hits, too.
Thanks Weathervane! I love your insights and techniques! They work for me as well!
thanks todd! feel free to let us know about other techniques you'd be into watching a video on.
Sorry I’m just learning, you mean activate and deactivate the polarity switch right?
I check the phase by flipping the polarity. Does that sound correct ?
yeah that's correct :)
😊😊😊
grate video. thank you guys
Cool! I just recently discovered The Districts!
Their song Cheap Regrets is an instant classic!
Is actually looking at the wave form an indication?
What about nudging? Is that ever used while visually comparing the waveforms instead of just hitting the phase switch? Seems like you could get more precise that way. Thoughts?
It's never a good idea, from my perspective. It can appear to fix the problem you are focusing on at that moment, but it always comes at the expense of other details - often unpredictable ones. A good drum technique can be partially judged by how tight of a phase arrangement they can achieve. Moving audio files is not something you want to do, from my perspecitive.
I've had some luck with nudging, especially with room mics. Mic placement is king of course.
Don't confuse nudging with flipping polarity.
My drum tracks are diapering I see them om my recorder but not getting any or little sound though my board ,, This is soon after adding a condenser mic , lost my kick drum and my floor tom ,, I guess I need to remove that Mic ,,, Or place it elsewhere ??
Flip the phase or yes move the mic the same distance away from the snare as your other overhead
Thanks for this video! Very well explained. One question - if I don't use an overhead center microphone, would a good alternative be to sum my stereo overheads to mono and do this same process?
Actually, the better thing would be to use ONE of your stereo overheads. Get it in phase with the other overhead, then the snare, then the kick, the toms, etc. Does that make sense?
Brian McTear That makes sense, but how would I get the overheads in phase? Is this something that absolutely must be done during tracking or would sliding the tracks into phase be an okay alternative?
Daniel Busche Some people do this, but it has never worked well for me. Sliding one thing, from my experience ALWAYS causes problems elsewhere. When we record we measure the mic distance in a certain way that, for us at least, always results in properly aligned overheads. People sliding around tracks as a matter of course seems like kind of a bad idea to me. Even so, if it works for them that's fine.
Brian McTear Very cool. Thanks! I would be really interested to learn how you measure the microphones. It seems like a very consistent method, especially if it was a ratio. Maybe that way you could adjust distances to yield a more roomy tone while still being in phase?
+Brian McTear how do you measure? Because the snare mic is obviously up to about 10 times closer? I had some sucess sliding snare into phase, BUT to its closest 'cycle', and after seeing if flipping works (so it might even be aligning a dip to a peak)....rather than all time aligned to the note start... and for the ambient mic i bring it even more delayed so its just out of that 'phase area' ....which might be an improvement.....But personally i find it difficult listening out for phase changes when i've got headphones on infront of the kit, so I wondered if there's a set rule-of-thumb for aligning mics that are different distances? Also i tried aligning the kick and snare, by measuring but what happens if one OH is positioned so it can't 'see' the beater??
But it is not always 180 degrees out of phase. I would zoom in the waveforms and adjust them manually.
Most times when we're recording it is 180 degrees out of phase. We tend to mix our own drums which are measured out when they are recorded. Even so, 9/10 times we find that flipped 180 is the safest adjustment to make. We've found that when we try to bump waveforms, certain problems may be fixed, but others are discovered later, caused by the bump. So we use this process and for us it works.
+musicguy2k some things are...If you are on two sides of the drum, this can often happen for example. That's just push/pull vibrations of having something on opposite sides of the vibrating skin. so if you were to have mics as in phase as possible the only way is a polarity flip. Sometimes the overhead might be behind the kick skin or in front, so the kick varies. or maybe you use top and bottom snare which is always flipped.