@Farfa Might Be Right About This.....
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Farfa might be on to something here. Comment down below and let me know how you would change going first in Yu-Gi-Oh!
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#yugioh #masterduel #tcg
What about letting the going second player have an additional card from the start of the duel (so starts with a 6* hand) but not being allowed to draw when his turn starts?
That way you have :
- greater chances to have HTs to interact with your opponent
- you KNOW what your hand will be after the opponent establishes his board so either you can scoop early or continue playing knowing you can go through.
handlooping bad tho
@@filipghiglione3750 if you get hand loop for 5 u lost anyways.
@@Yami0to0hikarias evidenced by the super meta handloop decks running rampant
The big problem with One Card Combos is that it’s Konami’s fix to the consistency issues of the game. We had a serious issue about a decade ago with decks bricking constantly because they didn’t draw the exact 2 card combo (Shark+Magician or Elder+Cannahawk were good examples of this) that made their deck work. In a game with no mulligan no less. When the game moved beyond goodstuff.dek and into archtypes that had 3-6 starters is when we seriously had this issue. Plus these combo decks had little room for non engine. Konami’s fix to this was redundant tutors, extra deck cards that interacted with the main deck and 1 card combos. Now without a mulligan Yugioh is more consistent than a game like Magic where you’re constantly fighting against the terrible land mechanic every game. If you build properly you almost always draw a playable hand. But that design philosophy comes at a cost and we are feeling that right now as decks have a 50/50 split between engine and non engine and we’re in constant hand trap wars because of it. I think combo decks should have little room for non engine and largely rely on 2-3 card combos to put up a threatening board and have tools to be able to push through the opponents field without non engine. Cause only Control decks should be able to run 20 disruptions if we want deck types to mean anything in this game. But will players accept card design that would lead to less consistent decks in order to balance the game and move away from what it currently is?
An easy fix is player 2 starting with all five pieces of exodia
That's stupid! Player 2 won't have any hand traps to stop player 1 comboing.
The issue is a hard pill to swallow for a lot of Yugioh players… Konami is printing cards that do a lot of beneficial things with no drawbacks/restrictions. Nothing to do with going first or second. They just need to slow the game down.
All they had to do was print “you can only Special Summon Pyro/Spellcaster monsters the turn you activate/use this effect” for Snake Eye. Snake eye is pretty much Vernusylph but what’s the difference? Vern has the EARTH attribute lock. Branded is fair bc you’re locked into fusions. Sky Striker is fair bc you’re locked out of some spell effects if you control monsters in your main monster zone.
What makes Snake eye even more unfair is that bc there’s no restriction but the “once per turn” clause AND the engine is so tiny you can just play hand traps that stop your opponent until you can do something or stop them from interacting with your board. There’s no reason that a deck should be able to set up all that and stop your opponent from playing at the same time.
All the cool decks have the toughest restrictions 🙄 like exosister being locked into exosisters rather than having just an xyz lock
There is not slowing down the game unless you want to ban everthing that was print in the last 8 years they can only powercreep not engine Ash,imper,shifter,nibiru are old cards already or make more decks like tear to the point where going first or second only matters for the battle phase
soul resonator printed within 1 month of snake eye ash in tcg. one card does 1 thing and locks you. the other does 2 things and doesnt. both are normal summon starters.
Whats going on with this?
But fxck branded tho
Amen brother. Game fundamentaly is fine the problem is konami printing policy. They print broken cards that could have been easily balanced in order to sell new product and ban them a year later and then repeat. One card combos arent the problem its the end result of them. Live twins are one card combo as well nobody ever was mad about that deck
I have some suggestions:
1. Have the most powerful effects belong to only the most difficult to Summon Monsters.
Omni-Negation is the most powerful effect in the game which was why Shooting Quasar Dragon was so hard to summon. Then Konami decided to lower the difficulty-level of rewarding players with such a powerful effect which is why we ended up with Baronne De Fleur and Savage Dragon.
Cards like Kashtira Fenrir have effects that most Boss monsters from the Extra Deck WISH they had. Konami has to stop designing cards with a low-risk high reward model because that destroys the longevity of the game. No one will be interested in playing anymore or even in the first place if it's not fun to play.
2. Design cards where they have weaknesses to exploit.
Selective Negation Monsters like Stardust Dragon and Six Samurai Shien allowed for enough wiggle room for counterplay.
Omni-Negates on the other hand straight up have no weaknesses and you would have to have more resources than they have negates. Add hand traps to the player who already established their board and the one who didn't set up yet is screwed.
It's especially messed up where cards with huge ATK like Raid Raptor Ultimate Falcon have an effect that makes them unaffected by anything which is just stupid.
Stop making things where the other player can't respond. Tenpai is totally the wrong approach to balancing the game.
tl;dr: Engines should be stronger going second (talked about in video) AND engines across the board-especially high-disruption combo-should occupy much more deck space.
This was ~half touched on in the video, but I wanna go further with something that I rarely hear articulated but am confident that many players have felt:
Both players should consistently get to use their decks-and I mean their actual chosen themes-in all 3 games of a match. I believe the game is not in a good state until this is true (obviously barring certain outlier scenarios like bricking or the errant card that ruins a matchup).
Handtraps and (to a lesser extent) board breakers feel frustrating, sacky, and unfun specifically because they're generics. People have (rightfully) complained about 1/4 of every deck in the OCG being predetermined because of Maxx C, but it's deeper than that. Having to play a separate "engine vs non-engine" minigame before getting to show off any defining characteristics of the deck you chose isn't nearly as fun as getting to play engine vs engine out of the gate. It's okay for some games to be decided by a well-placed handtrap! It's not very fun, however, when generic cards become so critical that they smother deck identity in a significant portion of games.
Regardless of competitive intent, anyone who's not a robot chooses Yugioh over other TCGs, at a base level, because there's something mechanically or aesthetically interesting about it. One layer down, we gravitate towards certain decks over others-meta strength notwithstanding-because they have a certain stand-out identity that appeals to us. The best version of Yugioh is one where we get to spend the maximum amount of time possible expressing that identity.
When the meta demands that any deck that wants to compete be able to condense its engine to half the total deck space, the resultant gameplay becomes far, far more limiting in terms of how different players get to express the identities of their chosen themes. It's not just the homogenization of deckbuilding; it's the homogenization of the actual gameplay. Add to that how unengaging something like discarding Ash Blossom is relative to dodging a targeted effect with Sharvara or hitting a really good Tearlaments mill, and it becomes clear why metas like these drain the enthusiasm from players. Imagine playing a fighting game filled with diverse and creative characters who have movesets brimming with personality, but most attacks have such bad frame data that the majority of tournament matches boil down to players playing footsies with the same few overpowered buttons until someone hitconfirms into a touch-of-death autocombo. Also, player 2 has 300ms of input delay, and port priority is decided by a coin flip. Even if there's room for some cleverness and mindgames within those parameters, it's still a significantly worse game with less player agency and more wasted creativity when compared to the potential players see in it. Yugioh often feels like this, with a much better version of itself always tantalizingly out of reach.
I think this is part of the reason people like Branded so much; it's the only deck that survives on its own merits in a format filled with decks containing 15-20+ of the same staples.
And that's another thing. The concept of a "tech card" is nearly dead, or at least dormant, and both the gameplay and products are worse for it. Forcing nearly every deck to play the 15 best handtraps of the format siphons creative potential away from players. There will always be best options, but they shouldn't be the same for every deck. There are so many cool, powerful cards with unique, amazing synergies that get reduced to pack filler because they compete for space with the cards you need to stop a guaranteed loss in the event you lose the die roll. The days where you could propel your deck ahead by including a really cool and synergistic tech card are-with a few notable exceptions-over. The best we get now are pushed singles used by already top-tier decks to further cement their dominance for an event before falling off the radar (Metaltronus) or uninteractive floodgates that steal wins with little counterplay (HFS, Shifter).
Notably, this phenomenon is not the fault of handtraps themselves, but rather the fault of turn 1 boards getting so out of hand. Jesse disagreed with Farfa on the handtrap/combo efficiency arms race, and I agree with Jesse's analysis; it's a misplacement of cause and effect to think that handtraps are so overwhelmingly powerful that they necessitate the design of Snake-Eyes-level combo engines. However, I don't think the problem is handtraps being too weak. In fact, I think that the current strength of handtraps is reasonable (minus a couple lingering outliers). One or two well-placed handtraps can be turn-ending to most combo decks.
Now, this is where I might have an actual disagreement with Jesse: I actually understand why this could lead players to the conclusion that handtraps are too strong, because, to some extent, they're right. When handtraps work, they REALLY work. Getting turn ended isn't fun. It's been common for a long time now to include 12-ish handtraps in any deck due to the threat of pseudo-FTK combos-but therein lies the problem. If the two possible outcomes of the engine vs non-engine war are "player 2 gets FTKd" and "player 1 gets OTKd," the game really does feel like it's being decided based on non-engine. This has already been a problem for a very long time.
So this is where I sympathize with those who get the impression that Snake-Eyes was supposed to be an answer to this. It's a deck that can eat the statistically-targeted number of handtraps and keep going. It just so happens that when it keeps going, it usually manages to get all the way there without its board being significantly weakened due to the layers of redundancy baked into the engine to ensure its survivability. Thus we end up in a situation where the consistency, power, and resilience of Snake-Eyes combine to necessitate such a high quantity of handtraps, making handtraps look much weaker than they actually are. Snake-Eyes cards-and the non Snake-Eyes cards they exploit-are so much more pushed than their predecessors that they can thrive in an environment that's hostile to everything else like them. This in turn makes the variance problem even worse for every other deck.
Snake-Eyes sucks to have as a tier 0 strategy because it gives us the worst of both worlds: nigh-unbreakable pseudo-FTK boards with resilience that requires an unprecedented amount of generics to stop, AND unprecedented compactness, giving itself a near monopoly on the newly-mandated space requirement. I honestly think the reckless way Konami chose to design many Link Monsters is a huge culprit here, but that's more of a point to bring up when discussing solutions.
What I really want for this game, more than anything else, is for Konami to shift their design philosophy surrounding the gameplay loop of competitive play. Handtraps ending turns isn't a "necessary evil," because the problem they address-variance permitting-is an unnecessary one. If uninterrupted turn 1 plays were fair, handtraps could be fair. 21:39 is spot on. It's the QUALITY of interactions that matters most.
My plea to Konami is this: Stop dumping the burden of counteracting pseudo-FTKs onto generics that leech deck identity and leave the going second player disproportionately at the mercy of variance, and start designing cards that encourage players to break their opponent's boards with their actual engines. Stop designing generic cards meant to artificially inflate the winrate of the player going second at the expense of fun, and actually make it so archetypes get to consistently fight archetypes. And STOP giving decks the tools to efficiently pseudo-FTK turn 1 when uninterrupted. Proactively disrupting a turn 1 opponent should be a strategic choice that weakens their end board to a position your engine can more easily manage, not the primary determiner of which player gets to play solitaire. Yugioh is such a fun game with so much potential, but a lot of creativity in its deck building, gameplay, and card design gets pushed out by the prevalence of binary non-games brought about by compounding band-aid solutions to solvable systemic problems.
In absence of a power level reset, a great way to make the game so much less frustrating is to make engines STRONGER (in certain ways) at the cost of making them SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER. Engines should not be built around 1-card pathways to unbreakable boards that you back up with extenders in case of disruption; getting to a full combo board should require additional input of resources. Let engines play through more disruptions the more pieces you're able to cleverly weave in, but let those disruptions matter and weaken the payoff by removing layers of redundancy. One way to maintain this balance is to do what Konami seems to already be exploring with things like Kashtira Fenrir and, ironically, Fiendsmith Engraver: make cards with effects that don't do as much while building a board as they do while breaking one.
I believe generics should be techs you can slot in 3-9 copies of to shore up specific weaknesses, help you with tough matchups, or exploit fun synergies, but we've long surpassed the critical mass beyond which they become a blemish on the game. Even formats pre-Snake-Eyes, when people weren't so commonly identifying the necessity of handtraps as a major pain point, could have been made EVEN BETTER with this philosophy. And this doesn't mean we have to get rid of handtraps. This philosophy leaves room for decks with smaller but less explosive engines to sneak in and leverage that space, and there would still be meta strategies with Achilles-heel chokepoints vulnerable to certain generics. They still have a place in the game, but they should never be allowed to BE the game.
Go off king
Why should anyone have chances of winning going first? Just put Fuwaross at 20 copies per deck. Problem fixed.
yea, draw 6 of them, then draw another 10.. :)
@@irukazefNormal Summon Fuwaross, do Link shenanigans, win.
Wouldnt the best deck just be floo then?
@reon2174 No, Qli wasn't the best deck just because maxx C existed.
@@reon2174 Got a problem with that, big boy? Bet u got a problem with True Draco and Monarchs too
The fundamental problem with YGO is that the point of the game is to turn a 2 player game into a 1 player game. It doesn't matter if you go first or second, both sides revolve around doing everything in your power to prevent the opponent from playing the game, and I'm not just talking about massive negate boards which haven't really been the meta objective for a while now. This can probably never be fixed because Konami's card design has gotten progressively lazier and the playerbase keeps buying product, so really everyone just has to make a decision of whether they are willing to stick with it and see what happens, or drop it.
Personally, modern YGO has made me more interested in Digimon now, but addictions can be hard to kick.
It is a two player game when you can't make your deck a combo pile and purely trying to crack boards by using engine cards and instead needing to play a lot of non engines. It just occurs that people also hate it when their turn gets stopped when they go first and eat a single Ash. A better comparison would be that YGO feels more real-time than turn-based when you compare it to something like Pokemon; the turns are more blurry when you can interact with your opponent so much even their T1 going first. This is the farthest thing away from being a 1-player game.
One card combo decks are fine IF AND ONLY IF it doesn't end on an unbreakable board plus a bunch of follow up. Mid range decks should not put up like 90% of the board of a big combo deck that needs to give up non engine slots and also play more garnets. I also agree that going first should be weaker, but once you make mid range actually mid range again, it will inherently become weaker.
In the end I think a lot of players are just hypocritical, despite the fact that I agree with some of their points: they want their combo to go off when they play, but they don't want their opponent's to go off when they are not in the driver's seat.
there are a bunch of ways to fix the going 1st problem:
1) better card design overall: stop printing one-card-combo-decks that can fit any sort of non-engine in, while also providing the amount of interruptions we have right now
2) a master rule, idk how, but that's not my job
3) the use of banlist to actually balance the game instead of (only) pushing product.
No way, those ideas are too reasonable !
They had a chance to actually fix the game long ago.
But they decided to double down on high speed going first gameplay and print more hand traps instead of simply slowing the game down.
When you print cards like imperm/ash/and nibiru, this necessitates that newer decks must be able to play through these interruptions if they are to make sales.
I read from a few people that 1 card combo is fine if the power level and consistency were to be balanced out.
Idk how realistic that is, but it was very interesting imo and i quite liked it.
@@cybzer0560 in my personal opinion, One card combos are fine IF you also Need something else to win.
E.g. you May hypothetically Just draw SE Ash, and literally no other Cards for the rest of the game, and still play many turns as if you had a hand of 10 Cards, without sacrificing a very strong board presence with multilayered interruptions.
@@cybzer0560nah its not. It makes over extending none existent. You just go. You have so many lines to redo it again it does matter. Then damn near every deck has multiple cards that does something on field in grave and hand. Theres always a route
first, there's MAXX C for NORMAL/SPECIAL from HAND
then,we have MAXX C for SPECIAL from DECK/Extra DECK
soon,we gonn' have MAXX C for SPECIAL from BANISH/GRAVEYARD
mark my word
They should have leant into the mirrorjade design, where you can only effectively resolve the effect once every 2 turns but you can still get a little benefit off of the effect if it's negated. It's a really well designed boss monster, especially given how it is archetype locked.
I'd agree if not for its "if you out this you lose your board" effect.
@@Overconfidential that's only if it's fusion summoned. So idk, still think it's balanced, especially with all the grave effects now.
printing power spells like dark ruler feels shit because they do nothing going first, and dont synergize with the rest of your engine at all. printing in-archetype synergistic cards (or at least non-archetype cards that nevertheless synergize with certain archetypes), that are much stronger going second while *still doing something going first* is what feels best. think about havnis or fire king sky burn (in pure fk with ulkanix), and how fun those cards make the game when you draw them, even going second
Jesse is like criticizing every thing the normal player base says. Like defending this powercreep that will destroy this game. It's not if, it's when. But he doesn't care and defends this shit
He’s a competitive player. Of course he thinks differently.
You’re in the wrong place if you want normal player opinions.
@@iAmSFTRHe's a competitive player with a super limited breadth of knowledge of games outside YGO is the issue
*Gives thought*
Jesse pauses: nonothatsnottruebecauseofuh…this…and uh…thatsjustnottheactualproblemthatsjustnothowitgoes
i think tear was a very good idea with havnis being an in archetype handtrap i would love to see more of that
Just make decks that only work during the battle phase. Problem solved
My hot take is that the game should actually get FASTER. Here’s what I mean:
More decks should be designed with effects like tear havnis that allow you to play on your opponent’s turn, even on turn 0. Doing that wipes away the distinctions between going first or second, as the concept of “your turn my turn” is gone in favor of when either player wants to perform an action. So what if a game only lasts a turn or 2 if in that time both players have engaged in very interactive back and forth gameplay? The going second problem only exists in circumstances where you had no interaction on your opponent’s turn and they build a killer board unimpeded.
I think I'll pass. Turn 0 combos just make turns into a clusterfuck. Game's already hard enough to keep track of as is! If we had more cards that are better going second but good enough going first and we lowered the ceiling of what decks can do, the game would be a lot better than if we made more Havnis style effects. I do think in archetype handtraps are a really cool concept though! I think they should give some bodies that you can work with once your turn starts, but they should not let you start comboing off on the opponent's turn. It'd be interesting! Plus if the game goes even faster versus slower, traps will never have a chance to be viable again, and that would suck!
@@JakeFrost-e6w I’m a big fan of engine handtraps too, it’s why I look at Tear format so fondly as you had both bystials being engine traps and tear allowing for a ton of interaction points by both players on either turn. The general idea is just that if both players can play at the same time, you don’t have to worry about going first having such a big advantage. On the trap card thing, just make them like impermanence where they are viable in hand but even better if they are used traditionally.
@@bofoshow5189 The main issue of both players playing on the same turn is that it makes the viewing experience miserable. It was impossible to tell who's turn was who's in Tear format. And the mental stack was super strained then. I do think stuff like Bystials are cool, but I don't want Tear 2. And for traps, I can see where you're coming from, but it'd be more ideal to just slow the game down just enough that setting a trap doesn't mean instant death for you. Like Toss level of power is perfect for modern yugioh
Exodia is THE best 5cc
Turn 1 player can’t enter battle turn 3
The argument that there should be more copies of cards to make them less sacky I think is a bad one because you're under the assumption that decks should still be required to be running high percentage of non-engine.
Saying you need more copies of those cards to offset the annoyance of only running 3 nib for example means you still need decks to be as absurdly consistent going 1st as they are now with decks like snake eyes or fiend link. It widens the disparity between decks in a way that ideally weakening going 1st wouldn't.
I see where both of you are coming from. I had to look into what kind of decks that would truly take advantage of, not just your first turn. But, it also interacts during your opponent's turn, per it's engine. So, I literally made a new archetype based on that concept, I called them, "Crimson Stars". It's mainly a FIRE/Machine RITUAL deck that has the capability to Ritual summon your monsters while using your and/or opponent's monsters, during either turn. And, based on the total levels of monsters used, and whether you used an opp. Monster(s) or yours, determines certain effects they'll get. I'm still working on the pcst to make sure it looks good, but the gimmick is too much fun, and splashable with both FIRE attribute, Machine-types, and certain Ritual monsters that need some shine. If anyone is interested in seeing an example of the bosses I made, just let me know, but I'd love the community's thoughts on the concept.
Hot take: i think 1 card combo starters are fine as long as they put a restriction on them. Like look at spright starter, a 1 card combo that locks you into lvl/rank and link 2. Like image if like snake eyes ash said "you can only SS fire monsters for the rest of the turn" locking you out of summoning appo, IP and black witch.
100% agree with printing more cards that are usable going first but are much better going second. Forbidden Droplet is my favorite spell card because it's exactly that. Going second you can get free costs by sending activating cards that would been negated. You have more targets so get more value off the activation. And there's skillful play involved where you can use it to dodge targeting and skill drain. That's what I look for in going second cards. They require some level of skill and/or deck building to be as effective as possible, they aren't as splashable, and are versatile, even having limited use going first.
If we had more cards like that, or even full archetypes like that, we can fix going second without making games boring.
another big problem is the fact that there are only a "handful" of cards that effect the graveyard
1 quickplay spell
1 XYZ
and about 3 handtraps
No Necrovalley doesn't count because it punishes you as well and is technically a "archtype" card.
And yes you have Exosister but we all see how that archtype hasn't done alot.
So even if you were to boardwipe with Nib or darkruler and then break there board most archtypes now have so much recovery it doesn't matter unless you happend to also draw the card that shuts down the graveyard because they just pick things back up from the grave and pop back up next turn.
So konami needs to fix the game either by banning about 6ish years worth of cards to slow things down, or unban ALOT of things and see just how degenerate it'll get until they realize they need a new MR to try and adjust stuff ya know like how they "fixed" pend decks.
OH ALSO! that includes banning stuff like Ash blossom because it's the single most oppressive card that made power creep shoot up, because even with making "ash proof" cards they still aren't played, because why play a card that set's when I can play a card thats a 2 for 1 and +'s me in the event I get ash'd...
So am I playing the optimal deck or playing something resistant to hand traps? Right now we can't do both.
Jessie's counter-arguments sound solid, but end up conflicting with each other.
You will find that many hard core players that lack a breadth of knowledge of other games tend to make said arguments often
I think people are forgetting that the existing cards we have are already a problem because;
1. Errata's and banning each individual card will take a long time to implement and will only upset the players that have invested in those cards.
2. Printing more cards that will do A, B, C "BUT WILL DO DO" X, Y, Z on 2nd turn will only create more problems for the foreseeable future.
If we really want to change the game-state; while protecting investments is creating
a rule limiting the amount of special summons we can do on turn 1 & turn 2 should be given a hard ceiling..
(Up to 2 Special Summons per turn 1... and make it up to 3 per turn 2)
The Benefits:
1. This limits the amount of cross/combo negates players can setup and allow player two to actually play.
2. This heavily discourages people currently playing 1 card combos
(Because current 1 card combo's do up to more than 4-5 special summons at least)
3. Makes players place more spell/trap setups in their decklists & Backrow removal.
But hey these are just suggestions maybe someone already thought of this, maybe they can add on to it?
Bloody love the idea
What if there were more cards that operated in a similar space to Ty-phon? A card accessed via the Extra Deck that can potentially answer some aspects of the board.
The cards that are board breakers not created to be as powerful as Evenly, Lightning Storm, Dark Ruler, Droplet or Super Poly. They just need to address the concept of drawing the out. Instead of drawing the out, they always have access to the out, but the out is something the opponent will be afraid of walking into.
Imagine a Nibiru that requires 10 summons from the current turn or turn before and you to own an empty field (NOT QUICK EFFECT). If your opponent is stupid enough to walk into a Nibiru your opponent ALWAYS has access to, then that's on them. They call if the opponent has the out in their Extra deck. Maybe your opponent has it to discourage an OTK combo. Maybe your opponent doesn't have it because the threat of it existing is enough to force you to pivot into a lower power option while they keep the full power of their deck.
Having guaranteed outs WILL lower the power ceiling of the game because people need to run them in their Extra deck, potentially weakening their Extra deck options for their combo. So people will opt to play more mid range deck options that play around various guaranteed board breakers.
But like I said, this only makes sense if the guaranteed board breakers have conditions that are harder to meet unless your opponent is well over extending. And you can't necessarily cover every single option because then you would need to dedicate your entire Extra deck to covering all of the potential options out there.
Obviously Labrynth, Floo, or Stun decks do come to mind, so the card design should be restricting in a way where they really can't benefit from it.
Nah 9 maxx c how you preparing for that? Just because it at 3 doesnt make it less annoying then it being at 1. 😂
We need to stop talking about sacky 1 ofs. Because you can run many cards at 1 even if its unlimited.
I feel Konami should implement the duel links banlist system, forcing players to choose among the limited cards to play can limit the deck power, it’s easy to fix the balancing issues with the game by putting all the broken combo cards in the same limit tier, then the players cannot use both at the same time
And please design cards that pay the same or even higher cost to activate, don’t just design omni negates that has no cost or drawbacks
My hot taken is one card combos (OCC) are not the issue. It's generic OCC that are the problem. Melodious is a good example. When you're locked into a specific archetype to perform the OCC, then it restricts what you can do while still providing the advantage that an OCC can help play through disruptions. If the board that can be created through an OCC is good, but not broken, then I think OCCs are actually a healthy part of the game. If Snake Eyes Ash locked you into Fire, then cards like IP and Appo would not even be a factor ans the strategy would be more balanced and actually fun to play against.
when players ask for interactive yugioh, they don't mean by " I start a chain on my turn, then suddenly my opponent activate up to chain link 5". that's not interactive at all, that just bullying lol
Limited activations in general on first turn? As the turns number then allow more effects to be used per turn. Even if its a floating effect if you overdo it then it should fizzle. This would promote trying to get to later turns and also promotes some kind of resource management which YGO lacks in a “spin your wheels” kind of way
Konami not gonna do squat
@@wanderer316 Probably not. Not even sure my idea will balance anything i just was spitballing. We all want a few turns to try and win dying turn 1 even when you draw a good hand is kinda lame.
jesse, you could put this channel on the "other channels" section on your main channel so people can find it easier
i think the prime example of how to design a good go second card is lava golem, since it has a good number of downsides (it takes away your normal summon, your opponent has a 3k beater you still need to deal with) for a generic removal tool you opp cant respond to;
what i think the op is on the money here is that a lot of the times, cards that help you go second cannot have significant downsides and should just completely shit on your opponent's board in order to be good enough, because your opp has a bullshit board that would never be cracked by lava golem or a similar card because they have a quadrillion follow ups. this makes it so games are purely all or nothing. you just build a ridiculous board going first and then my crazy board breaker just tosses your entire board on the trash and you cannot respond to it, and if i didn't draw the crazy board breaker i just lose the game, because the opp just goes "negate, negate, pop, pop" and that's it, and it needs to be so because if your deck can't completely crap on any deck that needs to make a link 2 to break a board it sucks ass.
player going 2nd start with 6 hands, and cannot draw at their 1st turn is a good way to go around this. 6cards vs 5 cards is better as player going 1st in yugioh is already in advantge.
I've seen a lot of suggesting this but forget that Triple Tactics Talent exists. Don't underestimate that 1 unknown card that you drew for your Draw Phase.
Wonder if it will do anything if the going second player was allowed a Mulligan
Based on how players deck construct, no.
You’d be better of adding a rule that says the second player on the first turn can negate a card by removing a card in hsnd from play face down
@mrbubbles6468 that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard 😂😂
More annoying than 1 card combos is people complaining about how a deck puts up X number of negates. At this point it seems like any sort of disruption means a negate. Like pre-INFO the only negate that SE played was Apollousa, and it sure as hell isn’t going to be a 4 material or even get all of the negates off now that Linkuriboh can’t protect it in battle. Even with the Fiendsmith engine, they can sometimes end on an omni if they’re not using the Fiendsmith engine to go through the normal SE combo.
I would say an omni negate effect being balanced is more like Invoked Mechaba
the argument of "card games are already luck based so it's fine to have non-searchable go 2nd cards and handtraps" is wrong because in a competitive game, you should aim to give the players as much agency as possible, making the game about skill expression as much as possible.
when you play against any deck and you shuffle your deck while praying the non-engine cards you'll draw are enough for you to play the game, it's bad game design that happens even before the game starts.
also i'll die on the hill that handtraps are convoluted consistency hits.
and DRNM/Super Poly/Nibiru and other board breakers don't need skill to be used. in the case of nib, remembering the choke point of a deck is not skill, it's just having memory.
dragon link best deck
🐉❤
If only brother 😔
Boring deck.
its funny we say sangen summoning isn't okay, meanwhile tenpai isn't even putting up spectacular results honestly. Its incredibly linear, despite the power of exactly their field spell.
its like playing against misc that you're more likely to interact with honestly.
they gotta print more in arctype hand traps which start your gameplan like magnamut ,...
we're starting to see that with rescue ace impulse, kirin, lab stuff. pretty neat
Turn 1, player who isn't going first takes no effect damage from the player who went first. Make this a game rule and half the banlist can go back to 3
Close the power scales between decks. And STOP MAKING ENGINES.
@@ygolocals7672 Raizeols, the literal walking engines: ...
But that constitutes what is a Engine.
One could argue Cartesia is a Engine. Snakeeyes can be a Engine.
But its just its own Deck aswell. Same with Skystriker
An Engine is just a Part of the Deck used to accelerate other parts of the Deck.
If you dont want Engines. Remove all cards that Search or do anything exept interupt the opponent.
@@XLuxtra And that is what Yugiboomers want. Set Man-Eater Bug and pass.
@@autobotstarscream765 Peak Gameplay
@@autobotstarscream765 truly Peak Gameplay
What if the second turn player has a chance to set cards before first player gets to pop off, that would be fair i think and make traps viable again
2 problems are
Too many crazy engines or archtypes that are splashable in everything (fiendsmith, kashtira, and even snake eye itself)
Decks that can generate the same, or even a better board, through any interrupts, even on your opponent's turn.
Let's Trending Mulligan for Going Second as mechanic!! 😅 (Not Mulcharmy)
I thought for a while about it and honestly in my opinoin most boards are breakable, however it becomes an issue if your opponent full combos you and has multiple handtraps to back up his board like ash, veiler , nib...
So to nerf going first most of the handtraps could get the mulchummy treatment, where you cant activate them if you have card on board, which will never happen but it is an idea
Basically i want handtraps to be a going second tool and then i would make breaking boards much easier
Well one thing required for the game to even to begin to be balanced is establish an MTW once you have that vital piece of information you can balance new cards and ban old cards until you reach it because at present as there is no set goal of how they want the game to be they can never balance towarda anything they are just flailing
This is going to sound crazy: imagine you couldn't special summon on the first turn of the game. You'd have to set up for your opponents turn with traps and spells without ending on 10k attack and 7 negates. "But", I hear you say "now my opponent can do all their special summons and just win!" Well if your opponent wants to win more than 50% of their games they would also have to fill their deck with set up cards for games where they go first. The consistency of decks would take a hit on the whole which would slow down the game; trap cards would also make an interesting comeback.
But you are already setting up for your opponant’s turn. That’s what the 10k attack and 7 negates is. And you do that with a combination of monster spells and traps.
Restricting Special Summoning wouldn’t chsnge it. You’d still negate your opponant’s turn using a combination of monsters, spells and traps
@@mrbubbles6468 you wouldn't do it with monsters. You only have access to your normal summon; no Barron, borreload, etc.(in this hypothetical rule change). Creating an unbreakable board would still be possible but not before your opponent has a chance to prepare for it. If the problem is that Yugioh is too fast or turn one is too much stronger than turn two then slowing down the game by trimming the power of going first is possible with this idea.
@@jobiy1999So everyone playing Floo, Monarchs, True Dracos, STUN and… Tenpai? Cause that’s insane, especially when your opponent can SS going second.
@@KeertikaAndFallenTree I don't know anything about floo. Does floo typically come out on top of snake-eyes going first? Would that change if floo couldn't access the extra deck turn one?
Yeah no, you’re crazy.
My take on one card combos is simple. It's not that you can do something with one card I hate, it's the fact that it increases consistency of degenerate combos with Konami's current design philosophy. As much as Invoked was boring, it was a healthy one card combo. The things Snake Eye does though? You should not be doing that off one card. And the solution isn't making more decks like tear. It's sadly just banning a bunch of cards to slow the game down to a reasonable pace and maybe adding some in archetype handtraps that don't let you just pop off on your opponent's turn.
How about no interuptions on turn 1. Both players get to play uniterupted, set up there best boards then at the start of turn 2 start the interactive play of the duel.
That's just pokemon then
@@yuseifido5706 No even pokemon can have interaction from turn one with the right deck
@@michaelkeha That's extremely rare though. In yugioh, almost every deck does that turn 1. What are you gonna do? Use a boss turn 1? No lol. Most decks just use turn 1 to set up
So you can't interrupt your turn 1 player but they can interrupt you?
That just makes going first even stronger and second weaker...
If you mean both player play without interruption for their own first turn then that just makes turn 2 broken as you can just clear your opponents board or punch them really hard for game and there is nothing turn 1 can do as they're not allowed to interrupt.
If they can't take damage on the first two turns then you'd just have regular YuGiOh but worse cause the turn 2 player would have an established board they can now use and any handtraps they drew
@@colonelcider8292 Neither player would be able to pop cards or play interruptions on turn 1. Whether you go second or not no interruptions no board clearing. In fact both players could just have there turn 1 simultaneously. Then at the start of round 2 begin normal play.
i want to see more decks that can search board braker. that will improve the going 2nd start without making it feel sacky you would still have to sequence properly.
He mentioned "fighting game" style where both players share turns. That exists. Yomi is a fantastic card game with 20 characters (prebuilt decks) where players take turns simultaneously. Each card has a speed written on it that tells you which card goes first/happens. It has the basic rock paper scissors that fighting games have where block beats attack, throw beats block, and attack beats throw. Super fun. Decks are ten bucks, I strongly suggest every tcg player try it.
Why print decks that are so volatile:
ME looking at my Virtual World deck that I'm taking to euros xd
One of the biggest examples of konami deliberately keep in decks weak are the knew lvl 2 thunder light monster from leagcy of destruction. They could have given spright life back and looked really cool. But they lock u into light monster from the extra deck. ??? Like for no reason they made spright support without supporting it. Those cards suck in every other way. But konami knew that spright may get a power boost of that and thats not a new enough deck. Its really frustrating to see konami make such wrong choices for no reason
Let the player going second draw their 6th card at the start. Know how many times ive lost drawing nib or droll as my 6th card
One card Wombo combo
Card one combo
I completely disagree that printing more copies of the powerful non engine would make the dynamic less frustrating. Yugioh has no mulligans. 20 non engine and 20 engine can definitely result in bricks hands, especially if your archetype isn’t hyper efficient and can access all 20 of it’s engine with any single engine card, which is pretty exclusive to snake eyes atm. Sometimes decks can have the answer to one non engine that would auto lose them the game if it resolved, but not a second answer, so they auto lose to the second dark ruler. That’s still arguably sacky; the first non engine was just a negate bait, the second was the real non engine.
The entire point is that engine needs to be made less proactive. Cards should be able to do more if an opponent has already done something, take incredible ecclesia as an example, or something like tearlaments havnis.
You can try to load the dice as much as possible with good ratios for consistency, but at the end of the day you’re just comparing hands.
Wanna know how to fix this game? Ban a royal hell ton of stuff and have the next archetypes printed more balanced.
Wanna know how to make that happen? Boycott the game until konami gets the hint.
Wanna know why that wont ever happen? Because players refuse tontake a stand against it. They'll complain about x, y, and z...then show up at events with the top deck that costs more than a mortgage 😂
Exactly this
That's somewhat what they did when they introduced Link. Cards weren't literally banned but many were practically. People quit. As for the people who pretend they'll come back: we saw what happened with Speed Duel. You guys didn't touch it at all and now it's dead.
The thing is, people don't want to play balanced decks
They say they want to play in a balanced format but they don't. They'll wait for the next busted deck and play that
Plus as a business Konami will just print better deck cause it sells whereas if all the decks were balanced people will just keep play the same deck. Then you'd be putting Konami in a place wheer they are banning cards that aren't very good just to sell product
I am not an expert at game design. I am not an expert at yugioh. I have no experience running a business, no idea what profits and expenditures look like for yugioh past or present, or anything comparable.
I dunno, just... trying to lower the average comment arrogance a little. Something tells me, despite their tone, almost all of these people are just guessing.
Make a powerful deck with all their starter cards saying, "if your opponent has already had a turn." to where the deck has to play into a board build negates to stop them.
Best way to fix YGO currently is adding errata’s to cards. And probably a new Master Rule and a new mechanic that ties into balancing and nerfing cards.
....So, something like:
Adding speed counter mechanics from 5d's turbo duel so players can do stuff depending on the number of counter used.
Before standby phase, you can use 1 SP to draw 1 card then shuffle 1 card from your hand to your deck
@@johndexterzarate6663 Great idea!!! But, more or less thinking the new mechanic be something that buffs/nerfs singular or series of cards without adding additional slots to Main or Extra Deck.
@@GlacierMoonDragon Nah, it doesn't add anything on the field. Just some kind of resource in the game itself. Though I want it to also function as a clearance for link monsters like it takes 4 SP to summon link monsters with 1-4 rating. And you need to add 1 more SP to summon a link 5 monster.
@@johndexterzarate6663 Resource System feels pretty boring as every card game is doing it. Tho I do want mechanic's that changes a card (E.I. Pot of Greed), but not fully changing or retraining it. Speed Duels dose do something similar with Skills, but that affects the player/Deck.
@@GlacierMoonDragon It won't be boring if its also broken. Like activating spell cards as quick-spell by using 2 SP.
Bring back the goat format rule, draw 6 cards.
If not just accept that Yugioh is that intense and no amount of strategy can compensate for people’s creativity with the game. Heart of the cards.
only the first turn player dosn't draw in their first turn, the second player already has 5 cards starting hand +1 draw at the start of their turn. If you change starting hand to 6 the first turn will have even more gas and it dosnt change anything, if you give only the second turn player 6 cards and he gets 7 cards they will put even more handtraps in their deck because they can only use most handtraps once per turn.
It is a card design problem and not a rule problem, if you have 1 card combos that end on so many interactions you will simply load your deck with handtraps because it is even more interaction.
The solution to the problem should be to create new handtraps to replace the ones used now but they work like the mulcharmy cards, you can only use them on a empty field, that way you can only use those cards going second or after geting field wiped.
@@gab4198 if that’s the case, this is the renaissance era then because it all depends what you play but it doesn’t matter if everyone is using the same cards and now it’s like playing poker. Very boring unless you’re playing for money. That being said, people should understand that it’s okay to lose sometimes but to learn but this era doesn’t even allow you to excitement, it’s all the same somehow.
I think if Jesse K and Fartfa collab, should start with Farfa doing a "video" and Jesse js ready to do his react and go with it for a bit and Jesse criticizes Farfa and all of a sudden Farfa looks at Jesse and says BRO! Jesse Deer in headlights* 😂 itd be hammy but id find it funny as a swerve
Preach it Jesse, to hell with HEROs and Blackwings, "DM gets way too much nostalgia bait and its useless bwah🤓"
Its the first series itll always be the one even non players know, not the spinoff series, DM gets more because the main character is named off of the game, Yugi- Yugioh, its not Jaden-o's or Crow-eo's 😂
it is also not dark magician-oh
@@gab4198 fo sure BUT like Pikachu and Charizord to Pokemon, Blue eyes and Dark Magician are the poster boys of Yugioh, Neos and the rainbow boys dont have nearly the amount of star power as the aforementioned, so definitely Yugi and his cards are far more recognized and brandable than them, i like Heros and Blackwings but they hit their peak with 400 plus cards to Dark Magicians 45 or so and with their 400 cards it comes down to Plasma lock or Dark Law helmet, Hey DM hows Dark Dragoon and Red eyes fusion o we're locked down to be fair, neither are very good but branding wise goes to the Ultimate Wizard in Terms of attack and defense and not how many fusion cards can we get before we break 60 card extra deck and only use 4
@@gab4198Correct, it's Gazelle-Oh, he has King right there in the name and that makes him King! *KING!* 👑 🦁
I have to admit, I don't take farfa seriously whatsoever and it's a miracle he even represents YGO. Most of his thoughts and opinions are just wrong. He just comes off as a mouthpiece for Konami.
His LCS series is the only thing I watch him for anymore at this point.
Your the 🐐
goat worshipper spotted
"Screaming 'one card combos' is kind of annoying."
Not more annoying than one card combos. I know you're good at the game as it is, but you're still too young if you don't realize how this is a problem for the game.
Shoutout to GenericOneCardComboEngineThatSummonsGenericBossMonstersWithOmniNegates.ydk
Gotta be one of my favourite genders