Toyota Engineers STUMPED?! (CRAZY Tundra P0019 - Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 10 май 2024
- Sean the Toyota Technician has made some great progress on this POSSESSED 2017 Tundra V8 with the P0019 trouble code...
But is the truck FINALLY FIXED?
After tearing the timing cover AGAIN, he discovers another variable...CRAZY STUFF!!
By the way, the Support Engineers are convinced that the BRAND-NEW timing chains are already stretched....WHAT??
We're not out of the woods quite yet...
PICO WAVEFORMS:
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
Enjoy!
Ivan 
Авто/Мото
Sean is my coworker hes a really smart, funny, always down to help someone in need type of guy! ❤ Hi 5 ⭐️ Sean!
tell him to start doing his own videos..more folks will subscribe
I'm shocked that your dealership did not have a Pico and properly trained techs to use them.
@@paulsolovyovsky1702 🤣 you know whats funny is, Ive been telling everyone of my coworkers to do that! The stuff we run into sometimes its free content…
@@kerrylewis2581 Haters gonna hate, 🤷🏻♂️ were all only human…
@@Unclesteve16 In my head, I think dealers are going to have every tool available. I'm glad your place now has one to assist in proper diagnostics.
“I work by myself on a farm where I can think” …
immortal words to live by …
Probably one of the main reasons Ivan left the engineering job he had and stopped working on his masters! Too much guessing and apathy going on all around us!!
I gotta say, Sean, if you're reading this... You just owned your mistake, learned from it, and persistently kept your nose to the grindstone until the problem was fixed. That alone makes you one of the most valuable technicians in the industry. I don't care what you know or what you don't know as a technician; you just pushed through one of the most challenging handicaps of human nature.
Never stop doing the right thing, brother. People like you representing the industry is the reason I can still take pride in calling myself a technician. Thank you for all you do, and if you ever find yourself in need in North Alabama or Southern Tennessee, I'll hook you up. :)
Totally agree with your comment rhkips.
Sean seems to be an inspired young technician who expresses himself very well.
His ethical & logical work process will take him far in his career (but not at a dealership).
Someone like Sean is a rare find these days & the dealership is lucky to have him.
Many like Sean get tired of the B/S, stress & frustration & change career path.
Ivan touched on this & the fact that dealerships & some shops pay their mechanics on book times for each job instead of wages.
If Sean took 3 days to fix this Tundra & the book time was 8 hours for what he did under the hood, he gets paid 8 hours.
That's hardly inspiration to nut something out & not give up till it's properly fixed.
My advise to Sean, learn as much as possible at the dealer then get out & set up your own independent shop.
You may even be fixing dealership headaches in the future & charging a decent amount for it!
I wonder if Ivan needs a helper?!!
Really, he had to own several *other* peoples mistakes. His mistake was only made because he was mislead by *so many* other people supposedly more experienced and knowledgeable than himself. Had he not been repeatedly told to fire the parts cannon (and ironically enough, not been told to fire the parts cannon at the actual bad part) he'd have never been put in that position (and not lost 3 days doing a timing chain at least twice). Gotta be a frustrating experience, although one where he learned a lot he can take with him in the future.
@@michaelbinning5010 the shop wants other money makers on his rack! Shop lost 3 days probably more of those tickets!
@@tonster04 yep, attempting to stay with the more "experienced" higher ups telling him his new chain is worn out would be maddening! It's not an electrical component that can fail with static discharge or loosing it's lubrication smoke! Either it was machined/assembled correctly or it wasn't!
@@michaelbinning5010 hi your advice is really true, the point is to learn and aproach the most at the dealership and then get out to work independent with your knowledge gained at dealership.
Ivan, you may not realize it: but all you guys in this diag youtubers' circle are the cutting edge of this industry. I know, because I had nowhere else to get help and the dealers couldn't answer me.. I even talked to two different ECM rebuilders who couldn't answer me and said they couldn't even repair my "problem"...... But then talking to You, Eric O, and Scanner Danner through these comments sections.. You ALL three gave me the correct advice and I fixed my issue with No Parts Required... The fact that we have the ability to learn from you guys, and even more important: that we have easy access to answer questions within a day or two.. It's such an unbelievable tool at my fingertips and I really feel grateful to be a part of it... It's the cross communication that is so brilliant and I hope we never lose that. Putting out the information in the videos is already next level; but the peer to peer 2 way communication that we all have with each other is priceless. It's like we are plugging all our brains together and building a diagnostic super computer, that we can all use. lol. I love it
As a retired electrical engineer after 40 years in space and engine testing instrumentation, I am humbled and impressed by Ivan’s systematic and dedicated trouble shooting approaches. Thanks to Ivan for good teaching videos.
Sean is a tech that cares about his work, he knew he had problems and decided to reach out and get help, Ivan taught us all about the value in asking for help.
I subscribed to his channel just for the effort given and the passion for getting it done right and standing by the customer.
Problem I have is with this timing chain replacement job, what happened to the Toyota top technician in the dealership, he should have watch over this chain/pin reset setup. Sean and shop foreman are the real problem on this job both dropped the ball in the job
Sean did a shit job though. Ultimately, the only issue with this engine was a bad sensor. He did 2 timing jobs, and made an arse of it. Months of work. Imagine if that was your car... Another garage might have charged 2 hours and fixed it in an afternoon.
@@paulsolovyovsky1702 standing by the customer when technician broke the timing pin, I just don’t get how this was not fix in the first 3 hours in the shop, swap sensors from known good bank or from loaner truck off the used car lot…you work at a Toyota dealership Bud
@@Malc180sPeople are human and mistakes happen, no one, not you or anyone is immune to this so saying someone did a shit job isn’t cool.
I think every manufacturer should have known good cam crank correlation wave forms in service data. Its long overdue. Like Eric O says he hates flow charts! Time for them to go and start teaching techs how to use a scope
I'm sure Toyota (Japan or elsewhere) have engine development & design files on this engine, particularly cam timing oscilloscope wave forms because the cam reluctor is part of the cam casting.
Maybe every manufacturer does not necessarily make ALL their information available to every or any dealership for many reasons including copyright breaches etc..
This case study proves that manufacturers need to, realize what tools technicians have available to them now &, pay attention to the people designing these tools & training these technicians.
Digital Diagnosis is the way forward & has become necessary because of the increasing complexity of every part of a vehicle these days.
@@michaelbinning5010 they're all into making and selling vehicles, not repairing them or having them repaired...
Yeah, I totally agree to that.. manufacturers only cares about their money!Crap@@throttlebottle5906
@@throttlebottle5906 Yes you're absolutely right.
I see a lot of "scope fear" out there. I participate in an amateur radio form that supports maintaining/restoring 1960's thru 1980's gear. I usually end up being the one that has to dig in and help the person with rig problem. This is a community of folks who should be more accepting to using a scope if nothing else for the time savings and better understanding of how the gear works. Scopes are cheaper now (corrected for inflation) that they ever were. There great tools as they display all the data in one snapshot. These folks who should be of a technical persuasion struggle to get beyond the Digital Multimeter (DVM). Some problems are very hard to find and to locate require many DVM readings to determine what the issue is. So takes a thorough understanding of these complex systems and a lot of work to solve problems using the sketchy data. I would say from my experience, to all the technicians out there, make your life easier and use the most powerful tools available. It will save you time and you will better understand how these vehicles work, all this to your advantage.
I had a similar problem with a Ford 5.4 3 Valve Engine. P0345 was the DTC thrown at that time. Intermittent Camshaft Position Sensor Signal. Ford Engineers recommended to swap out the Engine PCM if the Sine Wave Signal matched a known good Signal . Swapping out the PCM did not solve the problem. Long story short- Bank 2 Cam Phaser Reluctor Ring was Out of Calibration due to Mechanical Failure. Keep in mind- this was a brand new Cam Phaser. I discovered this after pulling off the Valve Cover- and visually noticed the Reluctor Ring was out of its normal Engine off resting position. I had just performed a major Timing Chain replacement job utilizing all OEM Ford components. It was a tough diagnosis for me- but I got the Job done.
Unreal. Ivan schooling Toyota tech line experts.
Sean learned a lot from this that will make him a better tech. That's how we get better. Sadly, dealers mostly seem to be so focused on making as much money as possible without honest concern for customer care
Very true. That's why I haven't been in a new car dealership in over thirty five years. True story.
Sean is trying to skip an 18hr job to avoid working for nothing. All he will learn is bad habits like that at a dealer. They take good techs and turn them into parts swappers and short cut takers. There is zero incentive to do the right thing over the fast thing.
Good dealer service departments nevertheless exist. I can personally vouch for Byers Toyota in Delaware, Ohio; at least for those few occasions I needed them back in the day. I picked them because I wasn't happy with any of the Columbus dealerships.
Ivan's tech line soon coming . Paid to have clean hands
His thumb would appreciate that
Iran, I loved this series. Just loved it. Your logic kept kicking in and answers started to be found. I thought Sean's inputs were very informative. You and Sean speak the same language and know what you are looking at when you look at these wave forms. Ivan you ARE the man. Many thanks for keeping us informed.
Eye ran!!
I saw that elongated phaser pin hole on a Hyundai that a customer tried to time themselves. I was only able to purchase a new phaser as pin was not available. I watched MacGyver as a kid so I took a measurement with a micrometer of sheared pin and started looking around the shop for something I could make a new pin out of. Turns out a tire valve tool we had was the perfect fit. Figured out the length needed, made the part. Prayed it would be strong enough. That was 2 years ago and the car is still running DTC free. Thanks MacGyver!
Being 40 years in the business I’ve always said that I learn more from my mistakes and never be afraid to ask for help. I work at a Ford dealership and it’s tough when you get a head scratcher and you just don’t have the time needed to really figure it out. This was a great video and really shows the struggles we go through on a daily basis. Thanks for sharing Ivan
I've met and spoken with engineers from GM, Ford and Mopar....all were clueless and aloof. They couldn't care less about a vehicle that's more than a few years old.
yeah.. I've seen that mentality a lot. Even in repair shops
because they're into helping sales, more sales = more work for them... it's like job assurance, at least until they start shutting down everything and go bankrupt.
Most engineers know how to design things, not fix them. If you talk to an "engineer" that seems to know how to fix things, they are not an engineer but rather tech support - basically glorified Ivans with a job title and probably not 1/10th as good....
@@ckm-mkc or a now retired engineer that started off as a mechanic ;)
Probably got in a position that is actually above their competency but will never admit it🙄
We've all had the moment in the garage where we're delighted with ourselves at completing a job and suddenly remember...we missed a step! Glad this had a happy ending.
Keith and Bernie would be proud! You have become a scope wisperer. It's always good to help out a fellow tech.
first of all kudos to you for taking the time to help, as i'm a fellow toyota tech as well, i would say this tech is a champ, he could have easily thrown in the towel and go by the books, but his determination to get it right is utmost.....
I like this new case study format. In the military there is an after-action review to discuss and analyzed what work and what went wrong. These reviews where a great learning tool for all of us involve.
And the point was never to affix blame but rather identify where the system may have failed and how we might prevent a recurrence.
Picoscope 4 channel and pine hollow auto diagnostics saved the day .
No just Ivan saved the day. A 4 channel pico is worthless without someone knowing how to use it.
So encouraging to know there is a "Sean" out there digging in and enthusiastic about learning his craft. He will be a true "Expert" one day, if not already. You did more good on this one Ivan than you might know, by providing your assistance and advice in order to mentor this young man. Great stuff!
Any time you say dealership just gives me the chills. What a cartel!
The management at the dealer should reach out to Ivan and offer to pay him for his time involved. They won’t, but they should.
I agree. At least some kind of recognition of some sort would be nice!😤
You think he did that for free, for a dealership?? No way Jose'.
They would just offer him free pizza 😂
At least they should send Ivan a bottle of Jim Beam!
That pin punching that hole was one in a million. Removing all the aftermarket sensors and replacing them with OE from Toyota would have saved a lot of hours, and even money in this case. You just never know the accuracy of electronic parts made who knows where.
That would be a great teaching case showing what can go wrong. That one was up there with the twisted camshaft, which I would have never thought possible.
Problem is to test the electronic parts. Only the manufacturer would be in a position to do that.
Hindsight is 20/20. You cant arbitrarily replace every customers aftermarket sensors, and you cant hook a scope up to every car you see. But a dealership without a scope is a shame, and i think your point, before an 18 hour timing job, indeed, toss in some sensors and try a scope first.
Glad to see that two, or more, experts have just as hard a time figuring out the real problem with a traditionally reliable motor, as I do.
In the industry I work in, I see younger techs that are afraid to even try and solve a problem and would just rely on what the engineers said. If it didn't fix it, junk it. Kudo's to Sean for his perseverance. He is a Master Tech!
Wow. Just wow. I’d guess 90% of the time the dealership sticks all of this to the customer. I’d hate to see the ridiculous false bill for this scenario if that happened. I’m sure it happens frequently. Thank you Ivan for helping this customer out and perhaps making one small dent in the industry wide problems
Here’s the scenario you allude to:
1. Tech stumped and calls engineers
2. Engineers say stretched timing chain
3. Tech performs 18.5 hr job
4. Problem not solved
5. Tech notices aftermarket sensor.
6. Tries a known good OEM sensor and problem gone.
7. Tech silent on cheap fix
8. Customer gets huge bill but problem solved! Tech gets big payday. Engineers never learn about their BS solution. Dealership makes big money.
9. Everybody happy!
Ivan, YOU ARE THE BEST! I know I'm late to the game here (dealing with my own home/car issues), but this has to be one of my favorite series of yours thus far. I'm a customer of auto repair shops, and I AM FRUSTRATED with the LACK OF CONCERN AND UNDERSTANDING by MOST of the repair shops about the effects of their repair policies ultimately have on their customers. Maybe firing the parts cannon works a certain percentage of the time, but all it takes is one "bad" diagnosis (if you can call the "educated guesses" actual diagnoses) to lose a customer forever. Thank you (again and again and again) for sharing your knowledge and experience, and thank you to techs like Sean who continue to "fight the good fight" for the customers who many times just pay for whatever repairs the shop tells them they need, whether they ACTUALLY NEED the "repairs" or not!
This whole story is incredible. It proves, again, that you are truly the BEST Analyst, because there is no Substitute for Brains and the disiclplined application of Logic. Now, the truck will run for 200K miles, thanks to you being smart and KIND. You are a great example of how a Real American acts and thinks. Bravo!
👍👍👍
This is a 3 star repair history ***** 😀
You can not expect the average mechanic - even with Toyota specific training - to trace down such a problem.
It has to be a mechanic with a spirit like Sean in this case.
Kudos to Sean for his perseverance and to you Ivan for the expert diagnostic and help !
That’s why I preach attention to detail to my trainees. Look at things after you remove them and before you install them. Look at the wsm for installation notes and warnings.
This was a painful learning experience for sure, one that every tech has been through, all of us have… But now he knows the timing of those engines inside and out, future diagnosis will be easy.
Pressure from management to do a correct Diagnosis is counterproductive. I've been there when I was a young tech in the Air Force. The Flight Line wanted a Tester fixed right now due to an awaiting Bird on the ramp. Luckily I had a Chief with some backbone and told them stop bothering us. I proceeded calmly to clearly think to diagnose and repair the tester. After we were positively sure on the repairs, then we called the customer for the return of their tester.
Most people don't know Diagnosing does not have a fix time. Sometimes it's 5 minutes, 5 hours, or can be 5 days. It's definitely an Art not everyone has.
I didn't think I would enjoy this style of video where you were not hands-on on the vehicle. I was wrong. This was a very enjoyable story mixed with pico scope diag.
It is nice to know that there are techs such as Sean out there that don't pass on their shortcomings and/or missteps to the customer. I realize that Sean is not in a class by himself but I bet that it wouldn't take long to call roll.
Great video.
Sean, if you are reading this, you did nothing wrong, someone sabotaged the vehicle before it got to you, then the chaotic work environment sabotaged your brain by stressing you out, most likely you are on a Toyota dealer team system on flat rate pay scale, diagnostic work is not assembly line work.
I am a retired automotive electrical/electronic technology teacher.
Ivan is very correct when he states that diagnostic work has to be performed in a stress free, distraction free environment.
On the 2ARFE engine the exhaust phaser doesn't have a lock but the intake does, I know from experience that if you torque the intake phaser onto the cam while It is locked you will damage the lock pin. I know this is a different engine but it feels like there could be an issue with the locking function. The Rav 4 PCM will only test base timing if certain criteria are met. Idling in park I don't think meets the criteria for a base timing check.
Edit, I posted this before the conclusion. This isn't the issue I suspected though but caused a similar outcome.
Sean is a very good person and a caring man, Ivan thanks for giving Sean a hand even only by email. Yours expertise is very important to all the new tech out there that are looking to get into this career.
Sean if you are reading this! It may be hard or take some time but open your own shop or even consider being a mobile mechanic! Guaranteed you will never go out of business! and you will be the local guy in your town all the other shops bring vehicles to like they do with Ivan, Eric-o, KIT'S automotive and truck repair and Rainman Rays!
Incredible, Ivan! I was expecting that shifting the chain one tooth and replacing the VVT sensor would lead to a happy ending. Didn't expect the extra carnage! Pleased to know that customer's only drawback was the time the truck was down and that he got a fair invoice. On the other hand, this was an expensive lesson for the dealership, but it seems that things will change for the better.
All in all, a fantastic case study, full of valuable lessons and a brilliant remote analysis by you! Possibly the deepest and most informative set of videos you posted! Well done!
all for the sake of a four channel scope and a ivan and the scope would have saved dealer parts labour and time hassle and then send tech on courses it will pay big time and save money and reputation
@@jackiemay9471 The 4-channel scope was mandatory to view what was going on, but Ivan's sharp eye and bright perception were key to catch the "fat" pulses and the displaced sprocket.
I really liked Ivan's way before, but he deserves serious respect, after the remote handling of this case.
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT MILLION %
I used to manage an import shop. The older technicians took the time to slowly go through the process of eliminating obvious issues. Newer and younger technicians wanted the easy way out using the infamous “parts cannon”. In addition , we began to see secondary issues as a result of cheap Chinese made parts in repairs brought to our shop (2001-2004 timeframe)
Sadly, today some of these parts are finding their way into to dealerships as a result of trade-ins and used cars sales at dealerships. These dealerships will install cheap Chinese parts, especially sensors, relays and actuators from Oriellys, Napa and AutoZone. We’re still dealing with some shortages or long wait periods of OEM parts.
That has to be one of the best case that you’ve done so far!!!!! I love how you did this and give you kudos for doing it. It things like you said about the parts cannon that a lot of mechanics are are doing. So happy he reached out to you!!!
All dealers should take note of this case study. Scopes are a must for any vehicle new or old. They take out the guess work and disable parts cannons and the built in issues they cause.
100% on working under pressure, no one outside of the bays realize the problems caused by constant interruptions or, "Hey, can you knock this out real quick, the customer is waiting" when it was the service writer that said, "Oh yeah, you can wait on that" without seeing if it's actually possible. And when problems result... we all know they will just chock it up to "Incompetent mechanic" never actually realizing the reality of the situation they themselves cause each day.
I use to work Sundays just because I'd be alone and no phone constantly ringing.
On this one, that 5 degrees most likely will become an alligator...But, most of us have learned the hard way not to take anything for granted.
Kudos Ivan.
any service manager who finds fault with this tech is insane. cars are too complicated. he is a great worker. toyota should send ivan a check
Wow, Toyota engineers coming to you for help? That's almost unheard of!! At least Sean did mostly right and corrected his errors after you told him what to do. That is definitely learning experience!! What a saga! Lol
Even from the armchair the mystery unfolds! Nice work Ivan! Thank you Sean!!
In the late 70's my friend called; and said she had traded her car in for a newer one at "Toyota Town". She was happy with it, except it was overheating in stop and go traffic. She brought it over; and it only took a minute to realize, it had the incorrect fan. It was blowing air out of the front of the car!! She took it back to the dealer; and when she told the service manager, what her boy friend's diagnosis was, he laughed. A mechanic, confirmed the problem, installed the correct fan; and she had a good ride for several years. Fast forward to today, and apply that level of competence, to diagnosing a car full of computers and processors.
Enter the parts cannon, stage left; you might say. Interestingly, the cannon was the first example of the internal combustion engine. It's principle shortcoming was; it threw away the piston with each power stroke. SRC, Road & Track magazine, same decade.
I remember the days back when I worked at the Volvo dealer. I got in a 2005 Volvo XC70. Customer complaint was a bad oil leak. It turns out that the cam seals had popped out and the timing belt was soaked in oil. That job required a new timing belt kit, new cam seals and a PCV valve. It also came in with a MIL light on for a cam/crank timing issue, but it was not on the work order. I can't remember what the actual code was. I did all the required service and checked the cam timing several times. I had set the cam phaser timing with the camshaft alignment tool and all. But no matter what I did, I could not get the cam timing into spec. To make a long story short, it took me almost an entire day to figure out that the main crankshaft nut that secured the harmonic balancer and cam belt sprocket must not have been tight enough when it came in and had sheared the woodruff key that aligns that sprocket in place a long time ago. How that engine was still able to run was nothing short of a miracle.
Ivan, when you found that there still was a 5 degree descrepancy...I believe if you had not stated...not so fast, we are still not finished with this truck...that the shop would have said it was repaired and sent out a unrepaired truck....damn good call Ivan.
Hi Ivan - what a fascinating couple of videos - I had part of the issue licked following my experience on Honda V-twin motorcycles - RETARDING the ignition when it should have been ADVANCING - the timing rotor having been re-fitted THE WRONG WAY ROUND. I only had a timing-light to guide me ( it was many years ago!). Your analytical approach to issues is much like mine - there is no substitute for 'joining up the dots' is there. Keep up the good work, kind regards Keith.
The PHAD channel (and Ivan, of course) is the reason that I, a humble DIY home mechanic, purchased a 4 channel Picoscope five years ago. I realized that you need at least 4 channels to accurately coordinate the measurements on a modern machine, and the PIco Automotive software provides the ease of use and the additional measurements to help you see what is the issue. While I have not diagnosed anything as complicated as this case study, I pull out the scope every chance that I get, so that when I really need to diagnose a complex problem, I have some of the skills necessary. Great job, Ivan. May your days be filled with interesting case studies!
Isn’t it like $3k+? That’s crazy talk for diy tools.
@@ludvigericson6930 And sadly the type of instrument a person needs these days, in some cases, to work on their own vehicle. I agree with you though, unless you are independently wealthy, who can afford it!! I've got a cheap scan tool, used it twice since buying it years ago, and not even my own car!
@@ludvigericson6930 The timing chain replacement in this video was 18.5 hours. At $180/hr labor rate that equals $3,300 plus materials so probably $4500 to not fix the truck. The scope and some know how is the cheaper option.
I worked as a dealer tech for a very long time. Retired in 2018. At that time, my total gross pay to diag this vehicle would have been $24. That is the problem.
Our manufacturer technical help desk is referred to as “the desk” because they aren’t technical and also no help . They have to be contracted for warranty purposes quite regularly. I am just glad that our product is very good.
Heck of a Tech would not shy away from takingmy stuff to Sean.
Every day is a school day. Brains beats brawn. Well done Ivan.
Ivan, great series, my hats off to Sean for being a real tech and not a slave to the corporate machine. Albeit he had to work with the machine but found a way to be the best at his job while doing it. One thing that still gets me, is the fact that Toyota was so concerned about spending money on a Pico scope but weren't very concerned that the customer would have to pay for Toyota's shotty technical help and firing the parts cannon as many times as they needed to maybe fix the problem. Which in this case never would have happened. Very well done Ivan and Sean its so refreshing to see real experts making a difference in the automotive diagnostics field. ✌
Thank you for closing this case. Very interesting. This too is why I fear going to the dealer for anything. Very rare for a tech to actually do the work to solve a problem and take the responsibility without dumping all the extra cost on the customer. Well done.
Glad that the dealership did the right thing for the customer and didn't charge him for their mistakes. In the end everyone learned something positive. The mechanic now has the tools he needs to properly diagnose future problems. Now that dealership needs to invest in one more tool, a good pressure transducer to go with that pico scope. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us.
So even toyotas shear dowel pins - albeit due to a human error - , Appriciate ur harwork, knowledge and dedication, Thanks a lot Ivan.
One thing that watching videos from pine hollow and south main auto etc. is to not only check your gear to make sure it's reading correctly, but also to check the sensors on the vehicle to make sure they're working properly and sending you the correct data. Trust, but verify! It would have been a few minute check on the sensors to see one of these things is not like the others. This check is especially important on older vehicles where the origins of parts on it could come from anywhere. I'm not blaming the tech. We're learning all the time!
I think that this truck will be plagued with evolving corrosion issues from the swim.
YEP !!
I agree when you play voyage to the bottom of the sea with a vehicle there are going to be more problems down the road Corrosion and Electrical
I owned a 1972 LeMans that was a local flood car for more than 20 years - couldn't figure out what the line across the instrument cluster was until I took the dash apart to clean the cluster - at that point, realized it was silt. Ultimately ended up replacing the engine and transmission. Many years later, the car started jerking - called the mechanic who replaced engine and trans - he told me to take the cover off the diff. What came out looked like chocolate milk (oil and water do mix). The hardened bolts had started backing out of the large gear, causing the diff to hang up. If you don't change every single fluid, there will be ramifications somewhere down the road!
I am amazed that the dealership didn't have the scope already. I could understand a small mom and pop shop not having one, but a dealership, in this day and age. I have always thought that the most valuable tool is the human mind and this case confirms this.
I once had a lady friend that had a Chevy beater (I don't even remember the model or year) that she was unable to drive because the clutch was gone. I had her get it replaced and paid for it. She let me drive the car as it was better on gas than the truck that I was driving. Well the clutch went again in no time. I had her bring it back to the garage that had replaced it. They replaced it again but said that she had used up her warranty and that I had to have beaten on it. I parked the car and started thinking about the whole situation for about a week. I then figured that if the garage did their job correctly that the most probable reason for it going was the clutch cable. When I went to replace it I could feel the old one was dragging. I replaced the cable and the car was driven for many many miles. While they did replace the clutch correctly they did not fix the underlying problem. When she told the garage about it they swore that there was nothing wrong with the clutch cable and that I had to have caused it.Slow down and use your head has been my motto. Maybe not that easy to do at a dealership.
It always feels so long when you still haven't found the problem and you're frantically searching over the waveforms for hours.. lol... but looking back later, it won't seem like much in your memory. But when it's happening and you are in it; and stuck: it just feels like an eternity.
I've heard it said, when you found the problem, the clues were usually there to see all the time.
As soon as Sean said the chain is correct, I knew it had to be in between the faser and the camshaft. There was nothing left.
Lesson #1. Always, always, suspect the work and parts replaced on it before it landed in your lap.
Famous last words… timing that you can’t get wrong. He will never say that again. Thanks for sharing!!!
I’m a guest house owner and neither a automobile engineer, however I understand the picoscope is so important and the results can save so much money just by measurements against a known good, I’m learning a lot!! And I find this so fascinating, thank you Ivan from the hospitality industry!!!
Yet another amazing diag from Ivan. I think these so-called Dealership techs should ask Ivan to arrange teaching classes so they can improve their skills.
WOW, what a case! ... My hat off to you Ivan for diagnosing this all over email.
Well done Sean for realising your mistake. Just remember this old Yorkshiremans quote.
"Thems that have never made a mistake, have never made bugger all"
Love your vids i am a machine sparks tech and still find them useful
This is an awesome example of good people working together to change the industry.
Thank you for sharing.
Well done Sean! Be the change and don't let the bastards get you down.
Thank you Ivan For keeping me sane. At 67 years old, I am learning from your case studies. Keep up the good work!
Well done Ivan. You helped a person in need - Sean. You could have asked whatever for your help but you did it for free. What does Scripture say - do unto others as would have done unto you. You did that. Shows your calibre. Apart from that, Sean owes you a beer - or two. Same for the Toyota engineers.
Ivan... thanks for the pro bono study case. Knowledge & technique is beneficial to everyone. The only dealer/shop work I've had done in 30 yrs is recall & programming... thanks to guys like you sharing expertise. You are appreciated 👏
As a guy who repairs for a living as well the tough ones are the ones you never forget !! a lesson learned and experience gained . I just had some bad experiences with some Chinesium parts as well ....steer clear go O.E.M.
Hats off to Sean and Ivan!
The dealers don’t run into too many of these issues. Sean said he had three such problems in 6 years at various garages so their business model is probably pretty on target for most services. They just need to know when they need to hand off a problem to a real diagnostitian … and pay them well.
Very interesting case study. It does highlight that having your vehicle serviced at the same place that has a complete history is very beneficial. Service can be performed by either dealer or independent shop that has a good reputation. There are good and bad dealers as well as independent shops. The trick is finding a good one. It also seems imperative to use OEM parts for the sensitive, electronic elements.
Whew what compelling diagnosis that was
Fantastic series, Ivan, and I couldn't help but recall the special you did with Eric O on the twisted camshaft on, I think, a Kia (?) many moons ago that was creating crazy waveforms. Just super.
That was a different result than I expected and the mishap with the gear can be traced to the fact that Sean was doing a major repair that he didn't believe necessary so while he was completing the task his mind was still working on how to solve the actual problem and this issue slipped past him ....props to him for owning it...we've been there mistakes happen it's what you do after that matters....your efforts to help him get to the final answer just makes me like this channel more ...great job Ivan...Karl from eastern Canada
I bet Toyota offers Ivan an engineering job. Scotty will be so proud. 😁
TIME is the most valuable thing man can spend. The knowledge gained from your time, is something that can‘t be taken from you!
You provided awesome response to this technician. You are a beckon of hope for the crazy over engineered automotive industry. Thanks for sharing.
👍👍👏👏🇺🇲
Sean, I'm gonna guess you got in a hurry and made a mistake. EVERYONE makes mistakes. I'm in this field at a independent shop and this will be my 14th year at this shop. Don't be too hard on yourself, you'll get the next one.
Wow, amazing case study haha. Thanks God we have someone like you Ivan. Man you’re good!! 👍. You’re The best…
Wow Ivan this one of the best videos you have shared with the community. I have said it before and I will say it again you are the man! Your videos are ranked #1 for me.
I see Sean changing his work environment either by going independent or to an independent shop. Guys like him a rare and there is a big demand to employ them in specialty diagnostics. New vehicle sales have plummeted. Folks are keeping their transportation longer increasing the need for techs.
Sean is one Hell of a tech and will only get better. I give him BIG respect for knowing when it was time to seek knowledgeable advice. Ivan, you are an inspiration to all of us that enjoy working on vehicles. You expanded my base knowledge about automotive diagnosis and repair. I thank you for helping Sean on your own dime. The world needs more god guys like you and Sean.
Really appreciate the candid view of a dealer shop. I hope Sean gets rewarded and recognized for doing the right thing for the customer (and not reprimanded for coloring outside the lines).
Well done by all involved. This video ranks right up there with the Eric/Ivan twisted camshaft video!!
Ivan now it’s more important than ever that you belt up when driving not will your loved ones will miss you when your gone but the high ranking tech around the world will be calling you, no bullshit your a legend and we all love u techs or just old hacks like me. 👍😁😘
This the best of of all. You have helped to have a lot more confidence and not to doubt myself and on top of that you and the Toyota tech care about the customer.
Ivan, you really are a diamond in the rough!!! Keep up the great work!!
Awesome case study and explanations. I have never worked by book hours and would never do it. I never worked on cars full time, but always did side jobs and people would always laugh at was in the shop. I used to get anything nobody else wanted to touch. I worked by the hour and it cost what it cost. My rates were fair and I usually turned three out of five jobs away.
Nowadays I only work on my 42’ motor home that I live in and move around the country. It has enough electrical gremlins to make me wanting to reconsider live choices at times.
The time pressure working for a dealer is the biggest issue specialy when jobs are booked in by people who don,t have a clue how to fix a car!
BIG kudos to Sean for bucking the system and the persistence to get this done right. Thank you Ivan for sharing this. The dealer did the right thing in not charging for the parts cannon … kind of. They should have charged only what it would have taken to get it diagnosed correctly in the first place and replacing the damaged , incorrect parts it had when it showed up. So maybe 6 hours plus the bad parts.
And to you Ivan, just dang man! Absolutely stellar! Dealerships are a whole other universe when it comes to repair process. You have to remember, a Toyota dealership is NOT Toyota. They have their own internal numbers to hit, and often times dealerships won't even approach stuff like this because it's not the "quick, profitable in-and-out" type of job they thrive on. The capabilities of individual technicians within each dealership varies, but I frequently scout dealerships, and I can tell you there's a lot of talent out there that doesn't get put to use. Flat-rate forces the parts cannon; even if you're wrong 5% of the time, you're still "beating the system" and making money. Often times, the shop foreman/lead technician is the guy that consistently pushed the most billable hours out the door for a long time, rather than the most skilled or knowledgeable person on the "team."
Great work, Sean. Great advice for Sean, Ivan. Sounds like the truck would not have been fixed without the two of you putting your noggins together to plow through the issues. Interesting case.
that brings brings back bad memories. I did that to my points back plate on my '74 CL360 motorcycle. Pin didn't punch a hole, but bent the part a little so it didn't advance smoothly.
Ivan,
a thousand bucks ain't "nuthin' but a thing" to Toyota to have an expert consultant come on board and focus exactly tracked to the point of resolution. You are worth more than that. But a "G" would be a nice offer.
These days, if this was on Tic-Tok.... how would the narrative have progressed? Not so well, I think.
Your professionalism and honor is a personal trait that all men need to admire.
Not even a tech, but find all these diags interesting to read and watch. Having multiple v6's with multichains going to ohc's I miss my simple 305 with a simple gear drive installed and single cam lol. Loved that gear drive whine.