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Mitered Box Tips - How To Get Better Miters/Bevels!
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2023
- Mitered boxes are one of the seemingly simplest, yet most challenging box types to make. That perfect waterfall look relies on many steps along the way going right.
This video is an in-depth look at all of the things that can go wrong while you are making your boxes.
I cover the importance of proper wood milling, wood choice, table saw setup, blade choice, blade angle setup, sanding mistakes to avoid, and glue up tips. At the end I offer a few thoughts on splines as well.
As a novice, this video was just what I needed to start solving my many miter problems. Thanks very much for giving up your time to help us.
Thank you Mike, appreciated/ keep us newbies inspired. Love your attention to detail in your videos.
Regards
Paul Ireland 🇮🇪
What a well thought out and comprehensive tutorial! I generally try to keep to videos that are under 30 min, it can indicate that the tuber likes to hear himself talk. There wasn’t a wasted moment here!
Thank you! Had to sub.
Many thanks Mike
Best video on miters I have EVER seen!!!
Thank you! I am glad I could add a little something to hopefully help out.
@@MMWoodworking Kept in my YT library for future reference...
That was an interesting video. I have ADHD so it was a challenge but you held my attention enough to get through. I will have to watch it again when I'm making a box but I got a lot from it
Hah. Thank you. I have struggled to find a balance between how much I should say, and how long I should be talking for, as well as how many detail shots are actually needed. I am working on making my future videos more concise. I really appreciate the feedback, and I hope you get great cuts on your next box!
All good tips and tricks. However...when I first started making boxes, I would spend literally hours trying to get that blade on a DeWalt jobsite saw to exactly 45 deg. Not sure who, and wish I could remember, but someone suggested cutting the miters on opposite sides of the blade. IE, cut one end on the left side of the blade and its mating piece on the right side. Say the blade is at 45.1 on the right side. This means on the left side it's 44.9. So, they complement each other to form a 90. I'll sometimes cut all the ends of my long pieces on the right side and my short piece ends on the left side or vice versa. I've got a sled or 2 and some miter gauges for use on the left or right side of the blade just for these purposes. Seems to work for me. Also, and I'm not sure you mentioned it as I skipped around the video some, but just as IMPORTANT as the 45, if not more so, is getting your pieces the same EXACT length. If the opposite sides of the box are not the same exact length, it won't matter how exact your 45 is. I use a stop block to achieve this. Tons of videos on here showing how to set up different types of stops and stop blocks.
Thank you for the video and thanks to everyone else on here that has posted videos on box making, sanding, finishing, etc. This is where I learned and I've been pretty successful at making some very nice boxes. To me, there's not much else more satisfying than taking a couple of pieces of wood and making a nice box from them.
Yeah, that's a great tip! I often use that method if I am trying to edge glue a bunch of pieces for a panel, and don't want to get my jointing jig out for all of them. One over, one under, and any error is canceled out. I hadn't considered it on miters for boxes.
Thanks for the tip!
Great stuff MMW!
Great video but I’m having trouble with glue squeeze out on the inside. I try cleaning it with a straw, wet rag, etc, but I still see the ugly marks when I stain. Any advice?
Sure...
- Stain/finish the inside first. Once it is glued up you won't be working on the inside anyways, so always stain or finish the inside first.
- When you place your normal glue, not the watered down, don't place a ton near the inside edge. Paint some there, but not a ton, and then put more in the middle or outside, and as it squeezes to close, it will squeeze the glue in.
- Put painters tape on those inside edges before gluing up. Then, just peel it off after it has all dried. This will prevent most squeeze out from sticking, and blue painters tape is usually pretty gentle on stain/finishes if the stain is fully dry.
- At a minimum, just stain the inside before gluing it up, but for me, experience with how much glue, and where to place more/less of it, came with time and experience. You get a feel for it after your fourth or fifth box. Try all three at once if you really want to do everything you can. Wiping with a rag is a terrible idea if it isn't an area you will sand after, imo, and I have no idea why people do it on internal spaces. It just pushes more glue into the wood.
- If all else fails, a small card scraper may be able to remove a very thin layer of wood, and take the glue with it, but you will need to wait for the glue to totally dry.
If using a sled for the miters, I suppose the 45 degree should be set off the sled top vs the table ( since there may be a variation between sled and table) and zero out the wixey guage to the sled. Your thoughts?
Interesting thought. I just do it to the table, but if you think your sled may not be quiet flat, then yeah, I guess it would make the most sense to do it to the sled.
I had never really thought about it to be honest. I always prefer MDF on jigs because it is heavy, and stays pretty lat, which means I can be fairly confident it is the same. I may have to go test my sled later and see if it is any different. You may just have to test yours with some scrap wood.
Hi Mike,
Which is best blade for cutting bevels and
Cutting flat bottom grooves ?
Regards
Paul
Bevels = at least 60 teeth. I use a Diablo 60 tooth crosscut, but plan to move to an 80 tooth Diablo once this 60 is dull, for an even better finish. (Diablo Fine Finish is the 60, and Diablo Ultra Finish is the 80). You can use a brand like CMT, or any other brand of blade that is in the Diablo or better range. Just make sure it has at least 60 teeth.
Flat bottom = I currently am using a Freud Thin Kerf Rip, but you can use any rip blade that is Flat Top Grind, or a combo blade (Diablo 50 tooth), but the combos still leave a little bump, but it works perfectly fine for the mitered box base groove use. Ideally it will be either be flat top grind or Combo. I am really liking the Freud thin kerf rip, but CMT also sells a full kerf rip, as does Freud, that are flat top.
In all honesty, any blade will be fine for making the groove for the base, as no one will see the little ridges, but if you do something like a sliding lid you will want either a Flat Top Grind blade (usually only found in some rip blades), or to use a router bit.
I hope that helps.
Agree with everyone else, this is super helpful, really love the longer in-depth approach.
Question about the mini test box - do you mill that wood? If not, how do you make sure inconsistency in that wood doesn't throw off the test pieces?
Thank you, I hope it helps. It took me a long time to get good miters, and I figured I would try to share all of the little things I learned the hard way.
I do mill the wood, but I do a fair bit of it at once, and then keep it all set aside to use for just that. I don't mill it to the same thickness as whatever project, I just mill it all the same and then use as is. It doesn't stay perfectly flat forever, but it is close enough. It's hard to keep any wood flat forever, so getting pretty close is enough for me.
I will mill it in four, 11in long pieces, to safely get through my planer, and then the first mini-box is 11x11, and every time I just cut an edge off of each piece until it is too small to safely cut. I get quite a few tests out of the 11x11 pieces before they get to 3-4in and get sketchy.
The 11x11 pieces may last me 6-7 projects depending on how many tests I need each time. I hope that makes sense.
Choosing the right wood - 1:15
Blade Choice - 9:58
Table Alignment - 11:53
Blade Angle (Angle Gauge Error) - 13:31
Sled vs Miter Gauge - 21:47
Tear Out Issues - 25:17
Removing Dents - 27:29
Sanding Mistakes - 29:00
Should you pre-finish - 33:48
Glue Up Process/Tips - 35:42
Spline Discussion - 41:25
Thank you.
Great video. I notice you did not show checking for square. Do you do that? The tape on the outside limits us to using the inside I'm thinking.
Thanks. I'll be honest, I don't really do that these days. The check is the pre-glue tape up check. Based on the math of the angles, if they all close, and there is no serious gap at the top or bottom, they basically have to be the same length on opposing sides, and square, since they can't close without all being 45, the same length, and square, using my method. It's sort of a check along the way process.
If your miter gauge/crosscut sled is at 90, your rips are straight and the edge sits flat, any piece that isn't the right length, or right angle, will show up in the check. Any gaps you can't see under the tape are likely due to cupping of wood. If the bottom and top edges are closing at the same time, then that piece is almost certainly square. If you have a small square you can check internally, depending on the size of the box.
You can also just tape two side together, flip them into an "L", and then check that angle. That won't make sure your opposing sides are exactly the same length, but it will at least mean that those two pieces are square. Again, your wood has to be flat for this, as any cup will throw off the ability to get the square to sit flat.
Thanks. I had a bad experience lately with a small box. I think I made the tape too tight and basically racked it.
What are your thoughts on sanding both sides while still a long board before cutting miters?
It's certainly a seductive idea, to be able to get it done on a larger, flat piece, but I am not sure I have ever made it through a project to the point where there wasn't scratches, dents, or just some surface defect that had to be dealt with towards the end.
My table saw, for example, has some scratches in it that can leave marks on my wood. My bench has nicks and bumps that can mark up the wood, etc etc, so for me I always have to clean it up at the end.
This may be more dependent on your setup, and how careful you are. I am pretty bad at being careful up until I cut my miters, and banging wood off of things happens to me a lot.
If you think you can sand it all evenly, it may be worth a try. So much of woodworking is pure experimentation, and refining the process from the mistakes we learn from, so it may be worth a try.
If you do, let me know how it works out!
Is there a reason these cuts cannot be made with a compound miter saw? Thanks
No, they can be made on one, but I think there are some reasons why it isn't always ideal. I don't own a miter saw anymore, so for me that is just not a choice. However, if I had one, at least a reasonably priced home use one, I would still do it on the TS for a few reasons.
Most home use miter saws -
Excellent! You are very careful in your work!