One argument against crimping that pops up often is the cost of entry, which these days is surprisingly affordable when comparing to the cost of a quality soldering iron and materials. 🔥 Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy130 ⚡ 50% off your first online wiring course! Get the knowledge and confidence you want. Enrol today: hpcdmy.co/offery130 0:00 - Intro 0:59 - Crimping Correctly 2:00 - Soldering Correctly 2:20 - The Weakness of Solder 2:36 - Mitigating Risk 3:02 - Exceptions To The Rule 3:39 - Potting 4:00 - How To Make It Safer 5:19 - The Downside of Potting 5:28 - Soldered Connectors 6:04 - The Golden Rule 6:11 - Terminating Shielded Cable 7:18 - Solder Sleeve 8:13 - The Advantage Of Solder Sleeves 8:56 - Crimp Where You Can 9:18 - Outro
Fair call. I believe we had an issue with the stabilisation not enabled on this video. I apologise to your failed solder joints - Would never have happened if you'd crimped though 😉- Andre
I only use solder for mid wire repairs. However I always use a marine grade heat shrink over the joint which is lined with adhesive and fully seals the connection
Non insulated butt connectors and solid crimps work even better with proper heat shrink. Open barrel crimps also work great. Also faster and easier to get into tight quarters for repairs.
I love marine grade heat shrink. My wiring mainly consists of tailights on container chassis. So nothing fancy. I just drop a piece of HS twist the wires together. Then slide the HS back over the joint. Its a quick fix at 2 am. Those $3 blowtorch lighters work great for heat shrink.
It took me a while to accept this, but you guys are spot on with crimps that use the correct tools vs. soldering. Emphasis on quality crimp tools, not the $10.99 pair at the neighborhood parts house. Great points all around!
A terminal salesman wants told me that if I used his terminals and cramping holes the wire would break before it pulled out of the crimp. I took him up on it, he was right the wire broke every time. It never pulled out of the crimp.
I'm a certified air frame and powerplant mechanic currently working for a company that does aircraft electrical work and I regularly use all of the techniques shown in this video. Both solder and crimp joints work under the caveat that they are done correctly. Both will fail if their respective weaknesses aren't accounted for. I've encountered both poorly made unsupported solder joints that crumbled at the slightest disturbance, and over crimped or under crimped pins that snapped off or slipped out respectively.
I was thinking about this too. Fighter jets have much more vibration and thousands of solder joints. Besides, crimping also creates a failure point where the wire enters the connector.
When I was in electronics training at Redstone Arsenal they stressed using anti-wicking tools when soldering and proper support of wiring harnesses. As you said about crimping, it's all about proper tools and technique. If soldering is good enough for missiles then it should last in a car.
We don't wire single use missiles, but maybe if those guys were working on race cars that will drive for 40 hours or so non-stop (pre testing for 24 hour endurance racing for example) they might do things differently too. Impossible to say though since we're just outlining what is done in motorsports and why without trying to tell anyone in any other application what that should and shouldn't be doing. You are correct about using the right technique. You can go horribly wrong with crimping too if it's not done right. Hope you enjoy your projects whichever way you personally decide to do things 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 although the single use missiles are mission critical and cost quite a bit more than most race cars. Opinions like this become frustrating for engineers when a customer questions use of solder of crimp and thinks we are wrong. They have watched a 10min video and think they know everything on the subject - forget the 20 years of real world experience successfully using soldered joints in harsh environments/mission critical applications. Better perhaps to say that its easier to do a good crimp with the right tools than a solder joint.
@@hpa101 -- Well, what did they use for the Voyager spacecraft? It's been going since 1977, so whatever they used, it must work... It's been quite a few decades, but I can't remember a single piece of electronic equipment that I worked on in the Navy using crimped connectors. In fact, I don't even remember there being a crimping tool in our tool locker... I can most definitely remember doing a lot of soldering though... Of course, it's entirely possible that there were crimped ring terminals on some of the equipment, but it would have been covered by heat shrink, so whether it was soldered or crimped would not be readily apparent... Maybe someone who worked on the aviation side (i.e. an AE) who reads this could relay on how things were on the naval aircraft...
@@hpa101 -- You might find the standards for NASA soldering interesting... nepp.nasa.gov/docuploads/06AA01BA-FC7E-4094-AE829CE371A7B05D/NASA-STD-8739.3.pdf
I don't know about naval aircraft, but airliners use lots of solder sleeves. A typical example would be a differential pair being fed into an instrument or interface unit - the signal wires are normally crimped, but the shield is connected with a solder sleeve with a flying lead and that's then put into a crimped pin to put into the connector. This needs a connector with a long backshell or support frame because you want to ensure the point the cable is clamped is behind the point the solder sleeve is attached. @@CurmudgeonExtraordinaire
I read quite a few comments for one or the other and against one or the other. This is proper of any type of automotive work. One thing I can say is that no matter where you stand on any something vs something, when you argue your point the weakest offence is say the other one sucks with nothing back how your stand is better.
I used to work in Telecoms, and we had systems that worked for 40+ years. All long life systems were solder joint. "Army" 1 + 4 systems were "portable" systems working in the World War 2. These were transported by military (primitive) transport and carried on working without issue. These were sold off after the war ...and at least 1 system I know about was still in use in 1980....all soldered. And guess what, equipment running 24 x 7 x 365 is permanently vibrating (60 or 50 HZ and harmonics). More modern equipment moved to wire wrap, similar "cold" weld as crimp joints...but much better quality. That is until you hit a expensive tool that does not torque properly....then you end up with a rack of dry joints, with the only fix is to solder all. Most auto crimp connectors do not have enough mechanical strength to actually "cold" weld. Pull a few apart and see, just loose wires. Crimp connectors can also be oxidized before use...causing long term problems. Crimps are used in manufacture by OEM's as faster and cheaper than solder. Low volume crimps (the ones you buy) are also typically different to OEM high volume. Good solder requires temperature controlled soldering iron, good solder with good flux. None of which is generally used by people working on cars. There are actually mil. standards for soldering. My 1995 Yamaha has factory solder joints that are still perfect.
That sounds like a lot of sense to me. Also with my experience as a machinist, I would imagine that it would be impossible to eliminate stress raisers entirely at the crush interface.
You can't compare telecom equipment vibrations to a 500 HP engine vibrating or racing through Baja. Look up what the budget for an F1 team, they aren't buying their tools from O'Reillys. Backyard mechanics use junk tools to solder and crimp but he's talking about professionals who have tens of thousands of dollars in personal tools because they buy the best available.
@@deckmonkey1459 Looks like 145 million budget for F1 team, US military 738 Billion. I would say if they thought it was the right choice they would spend the money on the right tools, they have a MIL spec for soldering for a reason. BTW what is the service life on a F1 car vs a Tank or airplane ? which would see more use/abuse over life as well see ALL weather conditions ? Just thought i would mention it.
@@lastcreations8845 that budget comparison means nothing. They are not racing, and they are certainly not spending all that money on one project. You will find plenty of examples in history of military spending involving shortcuts to fit within their budget too, whereas you won't find an F1 team trying to save a few bucks on wiring given poor performance means loss of income from sponsors etc... In contrast, a military that performs poorly would probably get a bigger budget 😂 At the end of the day though, it's still a pointless and flawed comparison - Taz.
@@lastcreations8845 i agree. Although racing sounds like it stresses components its not nearly as stressful as aircraft are on certain parts. Race cars will never see the longevity of aircraft. Lets drop the car from 10 feet upteen times a day and see how well it works. There is a use for both crimps and solder but frankly solder just does a better job in some spots. However crimps work better in others. Its really application.
I love that trick for soldering the wires to the terminals of that sensor. I'd never considered that before, but now I know how I can fix my grandpa's alternator charging issue.
Yeah, I can dismount the alternator, solder the wires in place, set some epoxy, crimp on some Deutsch terminals, slap on the connectors, put everything back together, and call it a day.
@@hpa101 have potted for high end race applications (trophy trucks). Haven't used the bent wire technique though. In my experience. The part is put in a mill, the connector is milled so you have access to the pins from the side. The terminals are used without the connector (crimping terminals onto the wires without the male connector). Slid on one by one, soldered through access window. Heat shrink over each individually. Then your DR-25. Then strain relieve it internally by putting the harness/wires into the connector slightly where it stays in place, wire kinda U'd. Tape up the access you cut with the mill. Used RT125. Set it topside of connector up, only pot about 1/3 at a time without letting harden, use a heat gun. Each time it settles and removes any air. On last pass do a nice cap/finish with heat gun and let it cure. Then finish the other side and bench test it. Zip tie tab may be jb welded into place for an external strain relief. Little more specifics to it but you get the idea. Survives in some of the harshest conditions you'll see.
Want to learn more about the tools and materials used in a motorsport wiring harness? This interview with Zac Perkins has you covered: www.hpacademy.com/blog/crimp-vs-solder-concentric-twisting-txl-vs-tefzel-and-more-tech-talk/ - Taz.
Nice video. Same is true with Marine wiring. The ABYC standards do not allow solder connections except in one general case -the use of solder plugs for connecting large gauge wire to terminals such as battery wire to ring terminals. The solder plugs come sized to the wire and include flux. Another problem with solder connections were the results of poor soldering, i.e. cold solder joints. This problem is similar to those using cheap squish crispers. That is user error.
This is very interesting. I’ve soldered religiously for years due to recurrent corrosion issues I suffered with crimps; however, I’m admittedly a damn terrible crimper. I haven’t suffered any failures thus far; however, I certainly see your point. If a crimp joint is completely water tight, It’ll likely last indefinitely. I do always use adhesive lined shrink tubing on every connection I can get it onto. I’ll have to check on some better tools as crimped connections would save my a lot of time
No matter how good your crimp if dampness get in you will eventually get corrosion and high resistance. A proper solder joint inside a heatshrink has never failled me. I had to replace many factory crimps with solder joints in 4x4 vehicles over the last 15 years
You would have issues with your soldered connection if you left it flapping in the wind and didn't seal it either, that is not an equal comparison. Note we're also doing things better than OEM here, they have different considerations when building a car for the road as we do when building a car for the track/competition. You might be keen to hear a bit of what Cody Phillips has to say if you're into 4x4ing. This guy is wiring competition Ultra4 and side-by-side vehicles as well as drag cars etc: ruclips.net/video/L05Ud8NztZY/видео.html At the end of the day you can do whatever you like with your own wiring for sure, we're just telling you what is used in motorsport applications and why - Taz.
@@hpa101 but you guys are doing the same when comparing your connector to soldered joints constantly referring to the need for mechanical strain relief because soldering bad but every crimped on pin in those connectors has a built in strain relief hence why each needs to be crimped twice once for the electrical connection on the bare conductors then again on the insulation for mechanical strain relief don't do that second crimp and you end up with the same problem the soldered joint has
@@shaynegadsden not quite, all things equal (including strain relief) solder has a different issue. I think it has been explained enough in the video already and you can reference it elsewhere if you're not a fan of what we're stating, this isn't something we have discovered or decided alone for shits and giggles - Taz.
@@hpa101 - Being in the electronics/vehicle electrical business for more than 30 years myself, you are both right... But to be fair, any hand made solder connection does not have the strain relief that the double crimp connector has. I always used solder connections for precise sealing and anti-corrosion purposes. Where salt and other terrible things are concerned, any tinned item is WAY MORE likely not to corrode when tinned with good old lead PB based solder. I still use the lead stuff and not the crap ROHS solder provided today. There is also one thing I would point out, I have some older anti-corrosion stuff in cans I bought that was military that works really well. (I have a lot of it) Another commercially available product is LPS-3 Rust Inhibitor. It forms a yellow brown waxy film on things when sprayed on or applied by brush or dipping. I have used this especially in RF connectors where the surfaces are silver plated with much success even a decade after being applied. Then heat shrink over it. It never goes hard and is the best to scare away the rusty or corroded monsters in any electrical environment... Especially the dreaded trailer connector and the bottoms of OEM fuse boxes. Loved what you had to say... Try using a good solder gun. So much safer, quick and solid connections. Its a different kind of quick reliable connection and you rarely get burned :) The old Wellers are my favorite. I have more than 10 of them in various sizes.
very good explanation, soldering makes a great electrical connection, but movement and vibration at the edge of a soldered joint is mechanically weak. Hence the potting to move the mechanical stress point away from the electrical joint.
OEM's use crimps where possible because it provides an acceptable, serviceable, easy to replicate and cheap connection. soldering has the capability to provide a higher surface contact area and is mechanically superior to crimps for strength. however, it doesn't do well in vibration prone environments where the end of the solder joint is prone to being a point of movement. ironically, crimps have an even worse contact point for stress risers. the booted connections provide sufficient strain relief which can 100% mitigate this, while soldered connections require skill to mitigate stress. in all actuality, do what you want. crimps require a higher entry cost for price, and aren't as cheap to make as solder joints, but their serviceability is a strong point. bad crimps and bad solder will both fail. OEM's also design harnesses with more testing than any motorsport team will ever put a car through. heat and stress mitigation rules still apply to all electrical, regardless of race or a car with a 20 year service life. as for potting connections, I've seen some people use a crimped pin pushed over the contact, then filled with epoxy. if you're pedantically opposed to soldering, this is a possible solution.
Seems like "potting" would cause a concerning amount of heat to any given sensor via pins into said sensor internals.. having to get the pin hot enough to take solder properly...
@@pseudosmith9945 most electronics will tolerate soldering heat. If you're an idiot and don't know how to solder and cook things, that'll cause damage. But just soldering bare wire to a pin won't put enough heat in to hurt anything.
@@davelittle8852 avionics uses it because much of the legislation and regulations were created around being sued. The technology in the 50s was also junk for material sciences compared to what we have now.
So many (too many) people do not utilize proper soldering techniques [not being snarky, or judgemental... simply a fact] In a very broad sense, I do agree that solder connections can be an unacceptable due to great variability in the connection. I value the gas tight weld of a crimped, especially with certain metals, gauge wires, multi conductor and less heat resistant (non Teflon) dialectics. I will do multiple things when and where I can I crimp, solder and heat shrink, especially on ring terminal connectors. I really like the quality of you work, as shown, the connector that was soldered, epoxy filled and heatshrinked (very beautiful finish product) Those are some wiring harnesses to be proud of... KUDOS
I just recently tried those solder sleeve unions and they're fantastic. I can't argue with your points, solder does have its limitations but it does allow you to maintain nearly the same wire thickness, if that matters for the application. The crimping and wiring in general you guys do looks to be top notch so I would stick with those methods.
When was a Mil Spec soldering/electronic assembly instructor in the 60's , we had reps from crimped connector companies demonstrating their wares. The key to reliable crimped connectors is to constantly check and recalibrate crimping tools to be sure that crimps are accomplished exactly as required so that the connection was electrically and physically reliable and not subject to deterioration from environmental conditions. It is debatable whether a crimped connection is, in reality , more reliable than a properly soldered connection without " wicking" problems.
When I was being taught, military spec electrical joints were only mechanical, and never soldered. When it came to solder, we always used one with the highest silver content we could get, for better conductivity. Cardas solder is the best by far IMO.
All DB connectors are available in mil spec with crimp pins. Re the solder sleave, in my high reliability instrumentation wiring I strip the cable back further and unbraid the screen then use heat shrink to make it a very flexible drain wire, easy, and there is zero discontinuity in the screen conductor.
I nearly exclusively use heat shrink solder sleeves/connectors covered with a thick wall glue coated heat shrink. I have yet to find a single connection properly made using reputable connectors fail. When done properly you cannot find a better attachment method for stranded connectors 18g-10g. 8g and below use hydraulic crimping or exothermic welding period.
I solder everything on my car, truck and boat. Solder and adhesive heat shrink tube. No issues. Ever. But I do see your point. That jumbo jet that stays in the air has most of its wiring crimped. They only use solder splices in certain connections.
Around here I've been trying to convince some old-schoolers for several years now of the superiority of crimping. I believe that most of the bad rep of crimping is due to inferior or clearly incorrect tools. Lineman's pliers seem to have been commonly used to crimp pretty much everything and I've come across a lot of connections that have been crimped with side cutters even.
@@hpa101 Tools don't make the mechanic.. I have a few of them I'd collected over the years and modded for.. reasons.. but I do enjoy having my adjustable Weller bench model at home.. upgrade when you can is my best recommendation for anyone, but technique is paramount. Here's a skill to learn, SMD replacement with a small heat gun, give it a try.. guaranteed to frustrate for at least the first few days.
@@404Anymouse I have to laugh.. you've never seen over crimped or using the wrong jaw set? Any three fingered football fkg monkey can do that.. is that what you're saying? That's what I hear when using "demonstrably wrong". Technique in every aspect of life is what brings success. I tire of repairing repairs.
As a school trained factory certified motorcycle technician I was taught to solder unless the situation made it impossible. Most of the people I have met from the connector camp are either lazy or cannot solder very well. Soldering is a bit of an art and it takes practice to be good at it. I also find that a well soldered connection prevents corrosion and provides an excellent path for electricity. In many of the shops I worked in I was the guy often picked for wiring problems specially customer come backs. I NEVER repaired a properly soldered connection but I soldered many corroded and loose crimp connectors. Never had a twisted- soldered- shrink wrapped connection come apart EVER. LEARN TO SOLDER!
Nice that has served you well. If your career was in motorsport you would have been taught differently although things do change over time, and perhaps 40 years ago even F1 preferred all soldered connections where possible, but that's certainly not the case today 😎 Hope you continue to learn and grow your skills and knowledge until the day you die, and I hope you still enjoy your wiring projects even after doing such tasks as a living, I'm sure many times - Taz.
Well, my 3D printer used to fail and halt for no reason at times after being used for a while. I found out it was because of soldered end of wires and soldered cable extensions. Crimped everything, not one failure afterwards. Although solder looks connected and whole piece, there can be microscopic cracks introducing resistance.
I think it comes down to using proper techniques, equipment and most importantly strain relief/immobilization on the wires and connectors. Crimping can produce consistent results every time as long as you follow the directions on the box. Soldering requires a bit of skill and can lead to different results even when done by the same person.
The best Wiring Harness on Race Cars I've ever had the pleasure to work with were from J.A.S. And although 99.9% of the time we don't solder in racing. My boss did it one time. Had a crank sensor wire get pinched after a driver hit a tire barrier at the previous race. Couldn't get a replacement in time for the next race as the sensor was still good and the boss wanted to keep our spares for the track. The way the harness ran it made crimping the wire a no go. I mentioned, "why don't we solder it?" I got the great big lecture about "Never Solder Anything in Racing..etc..etc." It was Friday and we were loading out that Sat. He told me to go home and that he'll take care of it. Came into work on Sat to load out and seen the wire was repaired. I was curious and asked him. "How did you repair it?" He kinda off hand said. "I soldered it." I laughed and said. "But we don't solder in Professional Racing!" He laughed and said "We do what we gotta do, Send it!" Later on he told me since it only had to make it through that next race weekend before we got a replacement harness he wasn't worried but as a rule of thumb I should never solder any wiring. Which is a shame because I love how clean a perfect solder looks when repaired. EDIT: As a side note, when crimping the right tool plays a major part as with anything automotive. First time I ever used a pair of good crimpers and seen how almost perfect every crimp was I threw away my cheap ones and spent good money on a set. And after my experience with Deutsch Connectors in racing I picked up a good kit and tool. And when I rebuilt the Engine Harness for my 97 Comp T/A I upgraded as many of them as I could to that style. Unfortunately some of the GM sensors still require the old Weather Pack Style and they just don't seem to hold up to heat cycles as well. Im replacing them at least every 3 years because they get brittle and break. "Turbo LT1 and I'm still fighting Under hood Temp issues to this day. But my IAT's are good so its not my 1st concern"
Great very detailed video I would argue one point however, you are correct about solder wicking but that's part of the soldering process. I was trained to solder to military specs and part of the examination is to make sure the solder has not wicked into the jacket. If you do it properly it won't happen. Easy on the heat and only apply as much solder as necessary. I swear by soldering but there are two situations where I would use crimps - high heat environments and on large wires. But in high vibration I would solder every time with marine grade heatshrink with glue in it, crimp connections are without a doubt worse in high vibration environments. Also crimps are also prone to corrosion whereas solder won't corrode. I work in marine and all the time I see corroded wires where water has wicked all the way through the wire but the solder joint is still intact.
I friend of mine was an avionics tech (auto electrician for aircraft) He/they never crimp any wire than can be soldiered, for access and other reasons crimps are used in some places. As far as vibration, he specialises in helicopters and was maintaining rescue helicopters. Pretty hard working aircraft in all sorts of shitty conditions.
There are comments around saying the opposite, it's a divisive topic, often between different age groups too. We're talking motorsports here but if you Google for some information around soldering in avionics you will come across the same arguments interestingly. On modern equipment I believe they are a little stricter on requiring crimps, but again, I'm just going off what has been commented on the channel regarding this topic over the years as we are in a completely different industry - Taz.
Used to work on electronics for logging whilst drilling for oil, these tools were in a string behind the drill head and had the absolute shit kicked out of them at high temperatures, everything was soldered to a high standard and employees were tested on IPC theory and practical skills annually. Anyone can make a solder joint hold for a bit, same goes for a weld, but learning to do it right and know it's going to hold up takes practice. I work in the subsea industry now and by comparison everything soldered is garbage, it doesn't need the structural integrity so it's thrown together half assed.
@@bowez9 we gave you sources, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this though. You can search around the internet, we are not the only ones to talk about the downfalls of soldering or crimping as well as the advantages as it seems to be no matter what we tell you, you don't trust us, so try more sources 🤘 - Taz.
solder > crimp. Almost always. When the joint is properly prepared for solder, the thermals are adequately managed, the flux properly removed, the joint properly protected from the environment a soldered joint will last. The wire fatigue issue is also a problem for crimped joints and is a common point of failure. You haven't worked on enough cars and equipment if you haven't seen a battery terminal that's held on with four strands of copper. I've been turning wrenches since I was a child, born into it. Mom, dad, grandpa all turned wrenches and I was exposed to it. I've used this technique on cars, trucks and heavy equipment without corrosion or failure for at least two decades.
I haven't looked in a while, but crimp db9 should be easy to find, and Neutrik used the have crimp XLR connectors up to either 6 pins or maybe 8 pins. The crimpers needed for the db series are normally several hundred dollars each, which is why most of these get soldered. Strain relief on the shell should prevent most issues with the solder joint at the pins.
As a master electrician I can tell you that both are ok. The problem is in its use. And when you crimp and you use one brand of ferules and a different brand of crimp tool you may run into problems. I use Vaco crimp tool on Vaco terminals, I use 3m crimp tool on 3 m terminals,Burndy crimper on Burndy terminals, ring terminals and spade lugs, but splices ect . I use Fox ferrule crimper on the ferules I use. The rest I solder. I use western unions and solder
I see a lot of black and white, Either/Or arguments for and against soldering and crimping in the comments. The truth is BOTH are suitable for automotive and aero applications. Both crimps AND solder joints can corrode if not sealed. Both will last for decades if formed correctly and protected against vibration and harsh environments. It's totally down to the individual situation. I suspect the automotive industry's choice to crimp over solder is more to do with time, than long term durability. Forming a good solder joint and heatshrinking and/or potting it, is time-consuming compared to crimping. So it makes sense for manufacturers to crimp everything, with special tools for each different type of crimp. Whereas for DIY builders and small tuners, having all the correct crimp tools for all the types of crimps can cost a fortune. For example, certain types of crimp tools you come across in the aero and racing industries can cost £600-upwards each. If you don't have that sort of budget you're more likely to use a different type of connection and solder. I personally both solder and crimp depending on the individual situation. For example, if I need to splice wires together into a neat harness, so that it can be routed through grommets and bulkheads, I will solder and seal with glue-lined heatshrink. Because crimping, while faster, makes bulky connections that will probably snag on something when being routed around an engine bay and rip apart! Also, sometimes, if I haven't got the right tool for a certain crimp, I'll sometimes crimp with what I've got and then solder the wire to the crimp as well, to make sure it can't work loose,
Obviously there are opinions on this and they may run the gamut. Most soldering methods may be failure prone, but soldering to DOD STD 2000-1 does not fall into that category. The methodology of this level of soldering is equivalent to level 3 of the new J STD of today. I was an avionics tech in the Air National Guard and I can say with great confidence that the soldering I did was of the highest quality. Methods matter, solder and flux quality matters and the equipment you use matters greatly. Soldering to this high standard allowed the solder joints to endure G forces, mechanical and physical stresses and thermal inversions without failure. When someone or some crew’s life depends on your work quality, there is no failure option available. It is an extremist ideal and compromise is not a consideration. Whether you crimp or solder, methods matter. No compromise is the rule and there are no exceptions as human life is on the line so your work is never to be less than exemplary. People don’t ordinarily operate under such scrutiny, but this is about high reliability and high quality. Passion for the work must be beyond question. I only use mil spec tools to do crimping ops. To do otherwise is a compromise of work quality. You have this passion for your work and I’ll bet you aren’t using any box store tools to accomplish your work. I believe others will say uglies and poo poo what you are saying. They aren’t working products at your level. Let the haters rant! I believe in the highest level of quality and reliability and only that level will do. What others do is their problem. I admire your level! Bravo sir!
Soldering requires skill, good tools, the right materials, some common sense and time. Soldering is hated in motorsport wiring, because the skill, the common sense and the time are all missing. If you're good at crimping, you're going to see soldering as some necessary evil that sometimes needs to be done when it is impossible to crimp. If you are good at soldering, you don't need crimping tools. With the right supplies and the right technique, one can create soldered joints that are perfectly capable of enduring the same stress and vibrations a crimped joint can endure. Crimping has its place. It is faster. That is why professionals and manufacturers prefer it.
Renvale who build the majority of F1 harnesses have unlimited time and budget and they crimp. They do it because it gives the most reliable results, not because it's faster and certainly not because they're lacking common sense. Why is crimping more reliable you ask? Watch the video to find out :)
Soldering is pretty easy and if you are set up it's almost as quick as crimping. Saying professionals in motorsports don't have the skills to do it? That's just stupid. And if it's about time, why do they use Tig instead of Mig when it takes at least twice as long?
@@deckmonkey1459 The video title generalized to "in motorsport". I'm sure there are exceptions but hey, I'll go with that: I'll generalize, too, so, here, High Performance Academy represents the motorsport. He starts about the importance of good crimping tools and later on he shows examples of soldering, using a crappy cheap soldering iron and doing it the wrong way, furthermore, omitting the necessity to apply one of those purpose-built protective soldering joint heat-shrink tube to support and waterproof the wire joint that has been soldered instead of crimped. Something had to be said about his video and the motorsport it represents. I would expect that in motorsports wiring harness manufacturing, professional soldering equipment and skills are used where appropriate but High Performance Academy showed that that's not the case: rather use crappy equipment and technique when it comes to soldering. No wonder motorsport hates it. They're doing it wrong.
You can get more or less fancy crimpable d-sub connectors, used a lot when worked in building automations eons ago. Amp 58372-1 is a pricey tool though.
If you need to crimp and solder, you're either doing one, the other, or both methods wrong. Either method done correctly (we prefer crimping for the reasons outlined) will be sufficient and save you time too. If you've had issues with only using crimping or soldering it would be worth zeroing in on why and changing the way you do it to give you more confidence imo, but you are of course free to do whatever you wish at the same time on your own projects 🤘 - Taz.
Now I have ratcheting crimpers, I also use a specific technique I started 30+ yrs ago of crimp, solder and shrink tube and with new glue/sealer shrink tube I'm having awesome results. Now my plans on race cars is no shrink tube so driver/crew cab see any broken wires if needed and a small tool box with crimpers and terminals stay in the car properly secured. I've had to repair specific wires at line several times with great success. E en loaned tools out before.
Wires shouldn't be breaking often enough to warrant not sealing them, I think this is something you might be able to avoid. Double check your strain relief techniques and if you're not already try something like Raychem DR25 for shrink tube along with moulded boots for your connectors and breakouts. Ensuring your routing is on point might help too if the issues are caused by the location of the wiring and there are alternatives that might take a bit more time but save you this headache. Things sometimes do you wrong, but as the saying goes if you're planning for something to fail, you're failing to plan. Tools in the car are great though. For some racing disciplines a basic tool kit is required as if the driver can't get the car back to the pits himself for the pit crew to work on it then it's a DNF, so that is great - Taz.
Soldering repairs can be done in such a way that when the solders does eventually break, because it will, the conductors will stay in contact with each other. It involves stripping one end further than the other and only soldering the first 1/4" to 3/8" together and folding it back over to the tip of the soldered joint is a the insulation of the wire that was stripped longer and the bare copper wire should be touching for most the length. Then using a good quality heat shrink that contains glue to both hold the wire in place and weather proof it. This is a technique I was taught by a automotive manufacturer and I have used for over 10 year in both heavy equipment and automotive wiring repairs. When I build harnesses or replace harness ends I do use crimp connectors and the proper tools for those connectors, either DT connectors and the many variations that use the same pin and sockets or GM weather pack connectors. If anyone has a link the get a kit for Denso type connector repair kits I would be very grateful.
This is really just a question of strain relief; a crimped joint at the end of the crimp point is, by itself, subject to the same strain problems as a soldered wire is just after the point where the wicked solder terminates. The actual joint itself is equally strong/reliable in either case, with each having possible failure modes that come out about equal (bad crimp due to tool/pressure issue, failed solder due to cold joint or use of corrosive flux that wasn't cleaned). The only difference is that you're using crimped connectors that contain built-in provisions for strain relief at the appropriate points, so this consideration is handled "automatically". A soldered connection correctly strain-relieved past the wicking point would exhibit similar reliability, but it will almost certainly be more labour-intensive and time consuming to implement than a crimped connection.
Interesting. I strictly use crimping except for the very particular case where I was unable to get a pig tail to wire into the harness for a repair. So I soldered the wire back into the connector where it broke off the pin
OE manufacturers use crimping or soldering according to what saves them the most money and survives beyond the warranty period. There are some applications where one or the other is preferred and I have seen where soldering a crimped connection is done.
Hm interesting, I repair ATVs, and I usually see crimps, I do sometimes solder, on some applications, I have done some testing a few years ago, I put the connectors in salt water, and the trick is to use a bit of silicon and double heat shrink, 2 cm on each side of the plastic insolation, and have never seen it corroded if done that way. Great video
1980-1982 many of my soldered connections were destined for space flight. Skill development and certification was a key factor and part of that was limiting the wicking of solder beyond the area it was needed so it couldn’t wick up up the wire under the insulation. Many pin and socket connectors were solder cup type. Of the crimped connections a very expensive calibrated crimper was required. Many of these connections were then potted also. I’m old now but if it is meant to be permanent and especially if it will be exposed to heat and humidity, it gets soldered, cleaned, and covered. Usually heat shrink.
What a load of crap! I've only been working on vehicles for 40 years, part of that time professionally. On the interior and in sealed connectors, you can get away with crimping with like you said, the correct tools. On the exterior or anywhere where the connection may experience moisture, it needs to be soldered and heat shrunk. I learned that lesson in the mid 80s while doing vehicle accessories installs where anything on the exterior or exposed to moisture had problems in a short time if not soldered and heat shrunk. Trailers are a perfect example where at the factory they don't want to spend the time to solder and heat shrink so usually with a couple of years you start having problems. I have never had a failure of any trailer I've rewired using solder and heat shrink. I've also never had a wire break at or near a solder joint. Manufacturers have had and still do have problems with crimps as I've repaired many of them. Matter of fact while I've never seen a proper sold joint fail or break, I have seen wires break at the crimp. My bet these guys are selling crimp products which is the reason they are putting out this crap, too make a profit!
I'm electronics designer, soldering _always_ creates stress concentration areas, if you have application or wiring that's under any sort of movement or vibration (even just those wires being able to move freely), you never solder that connection, you basically ALWAYS use crimp connections, use terminals (where you crimp end ferrules to if it's a stranded wire) or other connectors where the connector mating terminal might be soldered to the board but the connector itself is attached to the pins with crimp or other crimped connector. Stress concentration regions make the wire fail prematurely when any movement of the wire causes the wire to deform plastically at the solder joint boundary because there's a hard change from pliable to non pliable. There are systems that allow you to solder wire to board such that there's no stress concentration, but they're very specifically designed as such for that use. And never EVER solder any wire that's to be crimped, it'll fail prematurely.
Soldered connections are also prone to creep. That manifests as a joint falling apart under seemingly small but constant stress, after days or even months. An easy experiment to try is to bend a thin wire of solder from a spool to be suspended in the air, and watch how it collapses onto the table in the course of a few minutes or hours.
Having just been pulling out and doing massive surgery of my harness in situ and also building new looms and branches - as well as redoing work done by myself and others over the years that just arnt to a good standard; i've learned so much doing the HPA courses. Its only just a daily street car - but its about trying to and applying best practice where you can. I would have never had the confidence other wise.
I solder all my connections, even previously crimped OEM connections. But careful attention must be paid to mechanical support of the connection as stated in the video. I achieve this using heat shrink tube applied twice on each connection. A small size first and a larger size over that for 3/4 inch down the wires or as required and covering any part of the connector that will be exposed when in place to also provide electrical insulation. I've had connections done in this fashion last 35 years plus and maintain good electrical conductivity and be free from breakages. OEM crimps often don't break but resistance at the point of crimping increases over time. This probably doesn't matter in a race car, you'll be building a new one before resistance problems arise.
Just want to point out, using leaded solder is not RoHS compliant, and the resulting assembly should not be resold; RoHS enforcement fines can be quite steep unless the violation was via self-reporting. Using RoHS compliant silver-bearing solder not only has a higher glass transition temperature, but it also tends to be more brittle than leaded solder alloys. Flux is also highly corrosive and much more difficult to remove from wiring strands and insulation than printed circuit boards, which will tolerate an ultrasonic wash cycle quite nicely. Personally, I'm a big fan of Anderson Powerpole 45A connections. The consumables are silver-plated and prevent high-resistance copper/aluminium interfaces, as well as reducing arc spatter from initial connection to a current source. Paired with some Wet Noodle silicone-sheathed fine stranded wire, and the appropriate epoxy-coated shrink tube, it has not yet let me down... Bought 250 black "negative/ground" shells and assorted colors for positive voltages/signals. Down to less than fifty. Personal story: Buddy borrows my shells, contacts, and spare cheap crimper (dent-de-lion off amazon), then complains the crimp fell out. Turns out he was using cheap lamp cord and using the largest 45A "U" contact; instead of the appropriate 30A "O" contact for the wire gauge. Clipped the end off, slipped the goo-shrink tube over, crimped the right contacts on, bic lighter'd the tube, slid the contacts into the housing with a satisfying 'click' and his ARB vehicle fridge has been trooping along ever since.
Huh wish this video would have showed up yesterday before I crimped a few wires. I crimped them wrong. I only went around the copper and not the outside wire. I ended up crimping it poorly then soldering it. Came out okay. Not a critical part though. Good video I learned something.
Learning is all part of it, and seeing how you can do something better in the future is always a good sign of progress too. Hope you're enjoying the project 😎 - Taz
If I want to join two heavy guage cables, I'll stick to solder for high electricity flow, I'll crimp for a high stress connection, and if I need both high electricity flow and high stress, I'll go for something more exotic; stuff like soldering a crimp to improve the electrical side of the connection, and using high temp hot glue for joints that aren't going to see melting point tempuratures; Hot glue provides a similar effect to potting, while being easy to re-melt and/or peel away if the joint needs to be undone or reworked for some reason.
A properly crimped gas-tight connection is superior to a soldered connection. You noticed the words "properly crimped" and "gas-tight." When a connection is soldered, the metallurgical characteristics of the metals is altered, the metals become more brittle than before soldering. If you have worked around aircraft, connections are crimped, not soldered.
This question was brought up in a webinar. This is not ideal solution as solder would wick up the wire under the sheathing and create a new failure point past the proper strain relief. A heat shrink will be sufficient at strain relief, but if solder has wicked it self past that heat shrink the joint will become brittle and break between wire and strain relief.
For those of us lucky enough to use the specialty crimpers that are quite expensive, the choice between solder or crimping is easy. Having the proper tools to pin out your own connectors is really nice but super expensive for a hobbyist.
That is a common misconception. A quality soldering iron will cost more than Andres 'go-to' crimpers. When you're dealing with the likes of Autosport connectors then yes, the price does get up there, but when a connector alone at that level can be $500 it's all relative. Check out this article, I think you will enjoy it: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ - Taz.
I agree with your all of your statements and I would like to contribute to your efforts of motorsport wiring with a few comments that I believe are valuable to the subject. Mainly, solder prevents corrosion in the joint. No matter how well you isolate it, heat shrink it or else, a joint is going to present interruption of conductor material and therefore present a potential corrosion failure point. Also, the heat shrink insulation is not as strong as the cable insulation, especially when subjected to oils and other chemicals and fluids. Eventually heat shrink fails and corrosion occurs inside the joins. Corrosion can also creep up inside the wire. I agree that you can crimp with enough force to produce an initial connection that is stronger that the parent conductor, however these are still two chemically different separate materials and corrosion WILL slip in between them eventually. This is not to say crimping is bad, in my opinion the best way for pins for example is solder and crimping. I first crimp the naked wire to the pin, then I solder the wire tip towards the front of the pin with a solder only wide enough to seal the front of the cable completely and bond it to the pin material, and then lastly I crimp the wire insulation on to the pin. I do insulation crimp last, in order to avoid melting it and solder only the wire tip to prevent solder from wicking up the wire. Cheers.
There are pros and cons for everything but realistically in a motorsport application vibration is a much, much bigger and more immediate threat than corrosion no matter how good or bad of a job you do with your insulation. There are many types of heat shrink these days with the type used in a professional harness being resistant to fuel, oils and even brake fluid you're in safe hands when it is correctly applied in this respect. You are free to do things differently and cheers for sharing your thoughts, this is what the motorsports industry does and why is all - Taz.
Thanks for replying :) Depending on the motorsport application, threats might vary. For example off roaders and cross motorbikes might have bigger corrosion concerns. Fact of the matter is that no matter what you choose, it needs to be correctly applied in order for it to work. Another benefit of crimping is that it is much faster and cheaper for the automotive manufacturers and therefore you will see soldered wiring harnesses from the factory only on some exotics.
Do you have any examples of corrosion issues with motorsport looms that were crimped? I'm not talking about an OEM loom in something that is now used as a competition vehicle, but an actual professionally constructed harness. Renvale who build the majority of F1 harnesses have unlimited time and budget and they crimp. They do it because it gives the most reliable results, not because it's faster or cheaper to be fair. It's an interesting topic for sure for what seems like such a small decision on the surface eh! - Taz.
I did a deep dive into this, and the intelligent take is this: The ONLY reason that crimps are better than solder is that HUMANS are better at making joints that do not fail with crimping when given the proper tools than they are at making joints that do not fail with soldering when given the proper tools, added with the fact that training humans to crimp is easier and cheaper than training humans to solder. If you take 100 correctly soldered joints and 100 correctly crimped joints and torture test them, they will perform the same. If you take 100 commercially soldered joints and 100 commercially crimped joints, the human error will be greater in the soldered set. THAT is the REAL reason that organizations set policies of crimp only. Its economics and averages not methodological. Solder is just human-error prone, requires more attention to detail, and requires more re-dos. If you soldered correctly, and crimped correctly the failure of vibration will be identical. From a DIY or cheap self-sponsored perspective however, it is a more economical route to a reliable connection via solder, since those tools to achieve that are much more affordable than *proper* crimpers which are rather costly in comparison.
it depends on the environment and what kind of stress the connections are experiencing. a soldered connection is obviously more resistant to corrosion, contact oxidation than a crimped one... when it comes to vibration, a mechanical wire wrap is more durable than solder. something to think about: i've learned this not long ago following a group of enthusiasts reconditioning and saving the data from the Apollo program computers.. NASA went to great lengths studying the connections inside the Apollo computers (memory and logic boards containing a staggering number of wires) and found that wrapping the wires around polls/pins was less susceptible to failure (due to vibrations) then soldering or even wrapping and soldering...
@@duroxkilo Sounds like you didn't read what I wrote, because you reiterated what I rebutted. NASA didn't find that crimping was a better method than soldering, they found humans are better at crimping than soldering.
@@snap-off5383 NASA found that when it came to computer wires and vibrations, solder was not ideal.. the material, not the process.. that's how i understand the fact that they decided for solderless wrapping from the following options: a: soldering b: wrapping c: soldered wrapping option C would appear the winner to me, but testing showed it wasn't for their application. i should mention that they used solid wires for those computers (not the stranded type conductors). -------------------------------------------------------------- i'm just sharing what i learned while researching a different subject. i pretty much solder anything i can get my hands on. :} also, sub-woofers and bass guitar equipment (vibration prone environment) use soldering when it comes to wire connections..
@@duroxkilo Source? My google-fu failed to find it. My understanding is that terminal wraps are for environments that are prone to FLEX. (environments where they don't even trust a trace conductor on a pcb not to crack). The power of vibrations of super-powerful machines can cause flex of components when the waves traverse them. They're wrapped by machine/tool that achieves cold welding to the square corners of the specifically designed wrapping post. We made radar arrays for the Army, we had a division that made components that were wrapping post-style, I just never got to work over there. Looked cool though. If it is a materialistic improvement in those environments, you'd think Top Fuel cars would implement it. Even they must not produce the waves that crack boards, although I'm sure a rocket to space needs much more computing on-board than a racepak.
I'm an industrial electrician and no. Just no. Crimping always causes work hardening at the crimp, making the wire brittle, thats one of the reasons the wire will break before the crimp lets go, its brittle. Thats why your crimp connects have to use a strain relief that holds onto the insulation, the inherent problem is that once the insulation shrinks (or decays) the wire will be free to move and cracks in the conductor are now inevitable. The equipment I work on has to operate for more than 5 years , 9 times out of 10 the failure point in the electronics is a wire broken right at a crimp, the solder connections rarely fail. The only disadvantage of soldering is that it is an acquired skill and requires more labor. What people do wrong. 1. Set their soldering iron at the wrong temp 2. Fail to clean off the rosin/flux after soldering. 3. Don't use a heat sink. 4. Don't properly clean the mating surfaces.
This is not industrial wiring, but cheers for sharing your thoughts. We're just explaining what is done in motorsports from the likes of MotoGP and Formula 1 down, and why, which the reasons behind it all coming from experience in motorsports from electrical engineers and motorsport wiring professional alike 🤘 If you find your cimping efforts are failing before your soldering connections, they have not been done correctly as a rule, however, as above we are talking about motorsports here so I will refrain from speaking with authority on your own industry and day to day wiring jobs - Taz.
Both have their place though I agree crimping is usually better. Repairing mid-wire insulation rub through I prefer crimps. Though to connect a battery cable to the battery terminal clamp I like to solder it for more contact area with the clamp. I've had battery cables pull out of the clamp and soldering has always held it securely enough in addition to the clamp for multiple years.
I always solder my wires and connectors whenever possible; it;s the most permanent and reliable way to make a solid bond without corrosion getting into the joint
Except solder is only resistant to corrosion, not immune, so you should be checking the way you are sealing your connections crimped or soldered if you have had corrosion issues - Taz.
@@hpa101 Hello, Taz; nice to make your acquaintance. I was referring to ordinary household and auto-related wiring; I do not know what you applications are, so perhaps corrosion is more of an issue for you. I just know that crimp connections often fail because they are merely mechanical joints, whereas a soldered joint is chemically/molecularity bonded and permanent.
When done correctly (good crimp with no wicking up the wire beyond the terminal) this combines the best advantages of both methods. This is what I use in high corrosion environments like marine applications, or any other instances where failures can have "life or death" type serious ramifications. It takes longer to do right, but thats a small price to pay.
Take it a step further and crimp and solder. Applying just enough solder at the crimp to bond the ends of the individual strands to the connector. Yes it may seem redundant but it also depends on how clean of a signal do you want.
If you're crimping correctly you will have no signal issues and will not need solder. If you're soldering correctly (if that's your choice) you do not need to also crimp. One or the other is sufficient. To do both is just adding unnecessary risk and time - Taz.
@@hpa101 I take it your expertise ends with engines. Mine comes from some very high tech companies where signal integrity is of the utmost importance. There is absolutely nothing in a engine that requires that level of connectivity or signal integrity. But by all means ride that horse high!!
crimping isnt always more reliable, a place i worked where we always sinned the tips then crimped , for some parts we would actually soldered OVER the crimps, this was equipment used in high stress/vibration/heat/cold environments, one of the issues, even with proper crimps, was actually with the mechanical connection producing heat that a solder joint would resolve, crimps can be great, solder can be great, if done correctly for the job at hand. for joints like shown at the start of the video, we would solder thetip of the wirescrimp then secure the end of the soldered tip with solder, leaving the back end crimped, but then we would heat shrink to add a strain relief at the back even if it wasnt really needed, the main reason, we had seen units where vibration caused the wires to work out of both crimp and crimp/solder joints either breaking off at the crimp, or pulling out as outter strands broke, one of the guys suggested a strain relief and...we tested , in the end, we would shrink the back of each crimp then the whole bundle would get heat-shrink bound hear each plug (if not the full length of the wires), for some jobs we even changed from the standard kinds of pins used, to much more robust heavier connections (example from a 4pin pwm style header to a full 4 pin molex connector as an interlink with molded ends(made at our shop, 2 little gals made them so fast it took 3 testers for each of them to sort-of keep up.. testing required them plugging the cables in, and leaving them under load for a set time, if the lights turned green the cables were good, it if was orange or red, the cables were not up to spec) what our old boss always said was, "do what works, even if it goes against conventional wisdom, just make sure it actually works" , we once got paid to rebuild an old military vehicle that was going into a museum, the electronics where...wrecked... he used pure copper to replaced the aluminum power buss rails that were... in horrible shape... the thing used an early form of breakers, that actually had a modern drop-in-replacement, that looked close enough for the client, took us 2 months to fully restore the electronics including having some old vets who worked on them back in the day, come and consult(help) get things as close to original as possible... very weird machine... sort of a mobile command/control thing that apparently wasnt widely used but was one of those projects that with some extra dev could have been actually useful for deployment overseas in numbers but had some...flaws like the alum power bus that would overheat if stressed too hard.. apparently a couple units had the box catch fire due to that design flaw...their fix was to replace the buss with..copper rods they flattened with a press just enough to fit... we actually pressed them milled and made them match the original rails shape, they also showed us that there were mount points to put all the wires in conduits rather then strapped up like they had been from the factory and any used much for training or anything like that would have had that change made, in the end, the client was very happy, since by the time we were done it ran and all the crap inside worked again... even if we replaced some of the old lights with newer longer lived alternatives,
It is well known that solder wicked in to stranded wire makes more susceptible to vibration cracking. This of course will be worse in high vibrations environments. Like motorsports, military vehicles and airplanes. The cracking could take a long time to actually take place it doesn’t happen immediately.
Agree crimping is generally better for reasons outlined. The exception is in marine environments where if salt water does penetrate, (it shouldn't!) a soldered joint will be superior.
Solder is more resistant to corrosion by comparison, it is not immune to it, and it is a result of poor insulation for the application and not the fault of the connection method. if you find you have water getting into your soldered or crimped connections then you need to look at your materials, tools and techniques to find which one or combination is letting you down imo, marine application or otherwise - Taz.
I have in the past both crimped and soldered connections and lugs in small boats. While connections are always encapsulated you would be surprised how well saltwater can penetrate. That will make for a high resistance joint in no time! One thing that is a big no-no is tinning cable ends going into screwed connections. Also, if soldering, the use of zinc chloride or acidic fluxes are forbidden for obvious reasons. For automotive use crimping only has served me well. Great informative channel! Thanks.
Excellent video, thanks! I'm looking to get a nice set of crimping tools, ratcheting and non-ratcheting and accessories, could you link the tools that you showed in the video, or a recommendation? Thanks again. Edit: I just saw the link.
No worries Steve, I'll leave the article here too just for others that might read your comment: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ For the live lesson the link is here: www.hpacademy.com/introduction-to-wiring/ - Taz.
If you have corrosion problems with solder joints, try glue wall heatshrink. It seals the whole connection. Crimping can damage conductors and visual inspection may not show this up. I prefer a soldered joint since it is very permanent and has virtually zero contact resistance. I've never had vibration issues. I think that comes down to using good strain relief and sealing, no matter which method you use
I always dip the wire in Vaseline (its dielectric ) before crimping to stop any corrosion that may affect the connection in the future along with any none waterproof connectors get a vaseline coating also.
Crimp first, then solder and cover with the proper size shrink wrap. Been doing it in drag race cars forever. Haven’t had a failure yet. Vibration on crimp only is a real problem. Vibration on solder only is a real problem. You need both for Off-road and drag vehicles which should always have a crimped, soldered and shrink wrapped connection. Yes it takes longer. Yes it is the best way. Yes it costs more. Yes it’s safer. Don’t try to change my mind.
Thanks! Yes quality tools and consumables are expensive, but in the long run its worth it. Generall this discussion will never stop, its a bit like the good old "What Oil" question. One thing, please use some kind of video stabilizer when filming yourself, the mini-shaking is not that great...
It is a bit, but we are just explaining where what is used and why and are not saying one is better than the other for everything. People seem to gloss over that haha Good point on the stabilization, I'll mention it to the team here. We are trying to keep these ones a bit more casual but that's probably a little too casual eh haha - Taz.
The problem with soldered splices is that many people don't know how to do them, and there is huge variability in workmanship. Crimps do prevent this. However, soldered splicing has been used in many applications from telephone systems to spacecraft. The Western Union splice, and the lashed splice are both well-known, reliable, and accepted methods for joining wires that are approved by NASA. But it takes a LOT longer to learn how to properly solder a splice terminal than it does to learn to crimp one.
This has to be a motorsport thing. (extra vibrations?) I recently started working for a local shop that specializes in automotive electrical repair, and I asked the most experienced mechanic there about this topic. In his 40 years of experience, he claimed that he has never had a customer come back with an issue related to a soldering repair, as long as the wire wasn't flapping in the wind and heatshrink tubing was used after.
We're not stating that a soldered connection will 100% fail, as covered, we're stating it adds and extra layer of risk that is avoided in a motorsports application. Just because you solder doesn't mean your loom will fall apart, just because you crimp doesn't mean it is indestructible nor is either method the only consideration for a reliable connection 🤘
So what about something like solder seal wire connectors as I have watched a few videos where the connection is cut open. the solder doesn't wick it actually just encapsulates the wires, kind of like a welded crimp. I have seen several examples where the solder doesn't travel thru the wires where the solder cuff is. Now I'm not talking the knock off ,but the origionals.
100%, there are pros and cons for everything, and failures do happen. With the decision here it is merely trying to mitigate some risk of failure rather than stating that one option or the other will never fail, ever. That said, all things being correct with your connection generally there is a root cause of failure which is often something that was overlooked as part of the strain relief, routing, connector choice for application etc etc. There is more to it all than this single topic - Taz.
I work in underground drilling on large 200ton transport trucks. After the trucks were a year old there was a lot of electrical problems because the French manufacturer used too small cross section wires and they all broke where they flex. The factory solution was to cut all the wires where they were moving and solder on larger stronger cable. This was about 30 cables on 8 trucks. Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of vibration. Eventually every single one fractured. They all had to be done again with crimps and has never been a problem since, after circa 10khrs work.
Ouch, that is a lot of downtime for a vehicle of that type. Expensive. Glad you guys got it sorted in the end either way. It's tricky when you get instructions like that from OEM techs as there isn't the allowance for deviations if you want to have their continued support, even if you were making improvements to their solution via extra strain relief etc. Other than something like this which is a factory design fault, what are some of the main recurring issues you get on vehicles of this type/usage out of interest? - Taz.
@@hpa101 Yes, each truck was 1.1million euro and they caused a lot of downtime for four 20 million euro tunnel boring machines which they transport concrete to, so the costs of small broken wires can turn massive very quickly! The whole issue was dealt with under warranty by the manufacturer since it was blatantly a design failure of their's. The first attempted repair was of their own decision and they sent technicians to perform it. Also eventually the second round of repairs. The rest of the electrical hardware installation of these machines was also very dissapointing. Extremely basic thethering, protection and strain releif over the whole loom in general. They are 45m long with 9 axels and 4 seperate chassis with all wheels steering, steering drawbars and laser guidance. The 0.5deg increment steering angle sensors on each wheel and drawbar is where most of the fractures occured since the constant moving of suspension and general vibration would work harden and fracture the wires. Also the acidic type of water in the underground enviorment would attack, penetrate and corrode any miniscule fracture in cable insulation or tiny defect in a sensor. It is attracted to current. Yes we regularly improved the setup as we went to improve relability. The software system was exellent on these. Every sensor on the whole machine can be accessed in real time on a touch screen providing angle, speed, voltage, resistance, tempature, fault diagnosis, location diagrams, of all engine, hydraulic pump, hydraulic system and electrical system, avaliable in both cabs. It is the electrical hardware feeding all of this was the let-down. The hydraulic system was well designed in concept but again poorly installed on the machine and caused a lot of frayed and burst hoses mostly, which are basic repairs ,but messy and time consuming. Also the huge pressure on all the complicated suspension and steering joints along with the intense corrosion, needed a lot of repairs. I was informed not long after that the 'electrical & hydraulic hardware department' head engineer who was responsible for all of this was fired!
re: "Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of vibration. Eventually every single one fractured." yup, and the vibration is not just from the work being performed but also the added vibration of the Diesel combustion cycle (people underestimate it's impact). i've seen that exact "thin wire" problem too, thin and Diesel DO NOT MIX as the hour meters and odometers rack up.
Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of *failure to rectify vibration at the joint*. I bet strain relief was on their mind the 2nd time around.
@@snap-off5383 it was! It was a dissapointing afair all round. Compared to high quality manufactured plant like Volvo and CAT who have incredibly well thought out and strenghtened harness systems. Those machines can do 20 years/20k hours service with almost (98% of the time) no electrical problems at all.
Its all true, but theres another exception, when dealing with large cables, that need large cable terminals like the starter feed cable or alternator positive cable, it is a good idea to first crimp the wire in the terminal and then apply solder to seal it from the elements, that prevents corrosion in the terminal, and the bigger cables are less susceptible to that copper fatigue failure simon described, and they are easier to secure properly.
Reliability measured over what time base? Soldered wires in low vibration environments last for decades. So that is bundled wires that do not bend or flex. Especially in marine environments where crevice corrosion is especially prevalent.
The speaker here is specifically talking about motorsports. I think that would be considered a high vibration environment. For low vibration environments, and applications where the wire cannot flex solder would be an acceptable choice. Another advantage of cramping is it requires less skill than soldering does.
You mention that wire strands can fracture over time in a soldered joint, at the end of the solder 'wicking'. It seems like that is due to a stiffness difference where vibration could eventually cause the strands to fatigue and crack. However, a connector also produces a stiffness difference, which could also cause strand fatigue/cracking over time. Is that not the case? In either case, wouldn't you mitigate the risk of fatigue failure with heat shrink tubing that extends beyond the ends of the solder 'wicking' (or of course beyond the ends of the connector); the heat shrink tubing would give you a more gradual transition in the wire strands between the stiffness of the solder or connector and the stiffness of the more flexible wire strands.. Or am I offbase?
My experiences have been the exact opposite. The only failures I have seen have been crimp connectors, I can't say I have ever seen a solder connection fail. I think with the tools and equipment the average backyard mechanic has it's much easier to get a good solder connection than a good crimp connection. Not disputing your points as you are way more knowledgeable than me, just adding my experience.
I solder EVERYTHING in my cars. No issues for over 20 years (one on a car that I have had for 15 years). I tend to keep movement to a minimum, similarly to how you've done your epoxy filling. Crimps always corrode - especially underhood. I've seen way more broken crimps than failed solder points. What I do in that case is crimp, then solder into there, and then heat shrink tubing on top of that.
If your crimps are failing you are not doing them correctly. You don't need to crimp and solder, one or the other is fine if either method is done correctly. There are 2 other points I will add. 1.) Soldering will not fail straight away or explode just because it is solder. A soldered connection might never fail for you, but as discussed, it has a higher risk of failure when compared to a crimped connection (when both are done correctly) which is why it is avoided in motorsports where possible. 2.) Soldered connections are not immune to corrosion, just a more resistant. If done correctly though, a crimp nor a soldered connection will corrode within the life of a vehicle. Only when something is done incorrectly will this be an issue, and that is not the fault of your preferred connection method whichever it is 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Rock on! I meant to say, I deal with a lot of used cars, and in the past when I was driving bangers, they were questionably wired. Crimps on those cars failed much more often than solder joints, wires all green or even black due to corrosion, but yeah, I seem to recall quite poor connections to begin with - LOTS of exposed wire, crimps seemingly done with pliers... I'm still a fan of a good solder joint though, especially on the outside wiring of the vehicle. Perhaps I'm seeing more failures in the crimp domain as any Tom, Dick, and Harry can go to Wal-Mart and buy crimps - they're just more accessible. You have *perhaps* swayed me to use crimps inside the passenger cabin of the car ;)
Ahh yes, so crimps done with pilers are going to have multiple issues for sure, but also I couldn't imagine someone who is so unmotivated that they half-ass things to that extreme with crimping to do much better when it comes to soldering to be honest haha When we're talking about crimping, we're certainly not talking about that level of work, and when done correctly your work will even be better than what is done by the OEM which is generally immensely satisfying, although depending on the OEM it's also sometimes not that hard...😂 At the end of the day both crimping and soldering have their pros and cons so it's not really a case of using one or the other for everything, it's just a matter of understanding the how to take advantage of the right method in the right place, and unless you have standards set by an employer which make this decision for you, it really is a personal choice. If you want to get started with crimping at all then you might find this a solid help: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ Sorry for the massive reply, but cheers for the discussion dude! Happy wiring 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Thanks for the link - I DO have cars modern enough to have those kinds of connectors, and I have had fun times popping individual wires out of them in the past to find... all sorts of unpleasantries. Always good to familiarize yourself with the enemy :P
Nice one, I think the video covers why it's not preferred in motorsport well enough but we can't speak for what the Navy does and why in their different applications. Note some Autosport connectors do require you to crimp rather than solder so there is sometimes more to it than just preference in the application we are discussing here 🤘 - Taz.
For the average joe the problem with crimping is the upfront cost of buying the right tools to do a proper crimp, not to mention the issue of training in which tool to use for which connector type. It's a lot easier to solder a connection even if it will fail in 7 years.
In the past that was true, but times have changed. A quality soldering iron will set you back the same if not more than some good entry level crimpers (that are not absolute crap). Andres most used crimp tool is $60 USD for example. You might enjoy this: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ That said, if someone wants to to everything as absolutely cheaply as possible, whether they solder or crimp is going to be the least of their worries - Taz.
@@hpa101 Most average people will have a $15 soldering iron, and a $15 crimp tool, and no real idea or training in either disciplines. Buying a $60 crimp tool will be too much for most, especially since one tool will not fit all crimp needs. Then there are some who have all the gear and no idea.
Most average people just don't know better yet, and if their main driver is to do things as cheap as possible, no matter if they go for those horrible crimpers or soldering gear, the results are going to be average at best. Even on a tight budget you can find good gear secondhand if you're cheap but not too lazy to look for it. I fit into this camp personally haha There is no reason to encourage or ignore people who you know can do something better and it is awesome to see people make leaps and bounds in their skillset, and tools, which dramatically change their enjoyment and results with much more than just wiring - Taz.
I think a large part of the controversy here, is generated by the fact that most people don't have the proper tools or knowledge, to make a proper crimp. On the contrary do many of us have a reasonably proper soldering iron readily available. To those of us that are a bit older, soldering has for many been a required skill for electronics, so we are capable of making a proper solder joint, and know how to keep water out, make proper strain relief, and so forth. This we can achieve on just about any gauge wiring, using a $300 soldering iron, and a bit of cheap consumables. To achieve the same with crimping, will cost a fortune in tools and consumables. So, is crimping better than soldering? If you're a clutz with plenty of cash to spend, or an industrial user that makes enough connections to justify the $$$, sure. If you're reasonably skilled with a soldering iron, and have some experience with sealing and strain relief, it's every bit as good and much cheaper. It's just slower, and you really need to know what you're doing.
Andre's go-to crimpers are much less than $300 USD. Times have changed - www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ - Taz.
With many cheap Chinese motorbikes soldering all connections makes bike trouble-free.Actually are surprised that connectors are still used in vehicles and appliances.Very few are good quality. Same with computer(cat 5 and 6).Asked my boss why cables wont be problem free if soldered directly.His answer: another solder joint creates unnecesary resistance.Doesnt makes sense because inside connectors are actually two solder points.Which you will eliminate.Same with switches,patch pannels,etc.
Need to look into low temp solder joints. Cummins is swapping to this method. According to them it is the best of both world and the most reliable wire to wire/ wire to terminal connection.
Throw us some documentation from Cummins on this, always interested to read from the source. Who knows in a few years maybe both soldering and crimping will be obsolete, things do change eh! - Taz.
Hey Taz, I couldn't link the service information off of quickserve since you would need a profile to access the information threw the training offered by cummins but I found a video on YT discussing the same low temp connectors. m.ruclips.net/video/xCK3GQJzx74/видео.html If you do have access to cummins quick serve let me know and I can get you the link to view threw email.
@@josephbusby4625 cheers for sharing that video mate, I'll take a look after work today. We don't have Quick Serve access sadly, would have been interesting to see what the pros and cons were for them for their large application but appreciate that YT link :D - Taz.
![What IS Concentric Twisting? | Motorsport Wiring [#TECHTALK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dsgUhNH7F7k/mqdefault.jpg)
![What IS Concentric Twisting? | Motorsport Wiring [#TECHTALK]](/img/tr.png)
One argument against crimping that pops up often is the cost of entry, which these days is surprisingly affordable when comparing to the cost of a quality soldering iron and materials.
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0:00 - Intro
0:59 - Crimping Correctly
2:00 - Soldering Correctly
2:20 - The Weakness of Solder
2:36 - Mitigating Risk
3:02 - Exceptions To The Rule
3:39 - Potting
4:00 - How To Make It Safer
5:19 - The Downside of Potting
5:28 - Soldered Connectors
6:04 - The Golden Rule
6:11 - Terminating Shielded Cable
7:18 - Solder Sleeve
8:13 - The Advantage Of Solder Sleeves
8:56 - Crimp Where You Can
9:18 - Outro
guys, please stabilize the images of Andre talking , my soldered connections broke due to the vibration while watching.
Fair call. I believe we had an issue with the stabilisation not enabled on this video. I apologise to your failed solder joints - Would never have happened if you'd crimped though 😉- Andre
@@hpa101 crimping during an earthquake would be no small task.
Definitely! The camera was so shaky I half-expected a money shot 💰🍆💦
I only use solder for mid wire repairs. However I always use a marine grade heat shrink over the joint which is lined with adhesive and fully seals the connection
Non insulated butt connectors and solid crimps work even better with proper heat shrink. Open barrel crimps also work great. Also faster and easier to get into tight quarters for repairs.
I love marine grade heat shrink.
My wiring mainly consists of tailights on container chassis.
So nothing fancy. I just drop a piece of HS twist the wires together.
Then slide the HS back over the joint. Its a quick fix at 2 am.
Those $3 blowtorch lighters work great for heat shrink.
It took me a while to accept this, but you guys are spot on with crimps that use the correct tools vs. soldering. Emphasis on quality crimp tools, not the $10.99 pair at the neighborhood parts house. Great points all around!
A terminal salesman wants told me that if I used his terminals and cramping holes the wire would break before it pulled out of the crimp. I took him up on it, he was right the wire broke every time. It never pulled out of the crimp.
I'm a certified air frame and powerplant mechanic currently working for a company that does aircraft electrical work and I regularly use all of the techniques shown in this video. Both solder and crimp joints work under the caveat that they are done correctly. Both will fail if their respective weaknesses aren't accounted for. I've encountered both poorly made unsupported solder joints that crumbled at the slightest disturbance, and over crimped or under crimped pins that snapped off or slipped out respectively.
I only household grade wire nuts with about half a pound of electrical tape.
Try using bubblegum to seal the wire nut. Not only does it seal out water but it helps hold it better
i use both crimp and solder (for different circumstances) ... that said, a lot of people simply just suck at soldering
I was thinking about this too. Fighter jets have much more vibration and thousands of solder joints. Besides, crimping also creates a failure point where the wire enters the connector.
When I was in electronics training at Redstone Arsenal they stressed using anti-wicking tools when soldering and proper support of wiring harnesses. As you said about crimping, it's all about proper tools and technique. If soldering is good enough for missiles then it should last in a car.
We don't wire single use missiles, but maybe if those guys were working on race cars that will drive for 40 hours or so non-stop (pre testing for 24 hour endurance racing for example) they might do things differently too.
Impossible to say though since we're just outlining what is done in motorsports and why without trying to tell anyone in any other application what that should and shouldn't be doing.
You are correct about using the right technique. You can go horribly wrong with crimping too if it's not done right.
Hope you enjoy your projects whichever way you personally decide to do things 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 although the single use missiles are mission critical and cost quite a bit more than most race cars. Opinions like this become frustrating for engineers when a customer questions use of solder of crimp and thinks we are wrong. They have watched a 10min video and think they know everything on the subject - forget the 20 years of real world experience successfully using soldered joints in harsh environments/mission critical applications. Better perhaps to say that its easier to do a good crimp with the right tools than a solder joint.
@@hpa101 -- Well, what did they use for the Voyager spacecraft? It's been going since 1977, so whatever they used, it must work...
It's been quite a few decades, but I can't remember a single piece of electronic equipment that I worked on in the Navy using crimped connectors. In fact, I don't even remember there being a crimping tool in our tool locker... I can most definitely remember doing a lot of soldering though... Of course, it's entirely possible that there were crimped ring terminals on some of the equipment, but it would have been covered by heat shrink, so whether it was soldered or crimped would not be readily apparent...
Maybe someone who worked on the aviation side (i.e. an AE) who reads this could relay on how things were on the naval aircraft...
@@hpa101 -- You might find the standards for NASA soldering interesting... nepp.nasa.gov/docuploads/06AA01BA-FC7E-4094-AE829CE371A7B05D/NASA-STD-8739.3.pdf
I don't know about naval aircraft, but airliners use lots of solder sleeves. A typical example would be a differential pair being fed into an instrument or interface unit - the signal wires are normally crimped, but the shield is connected with a solder sleeve with a flying lead and that's then put into a crimped pin to put into the connector. This needs a connector with a long backshell or support frame because you want to ensure the point the cable is clamped is behind the point the solder sleeve is attached. @@CurmudgeonExtraordinaire
I read quite a few comments for one or the other and against one or the other. This is proper of any type of automotive work. One thing I can say is that no matter where you stand on any something vs something, when you argue your point the weakest offence is say the other one sucks with nothing back how your stand is better.
I used to work in Telecoms, and we had systems that worked for 40+ years. All long life systems were solder joint. "Army" 1 + 4 systems were "portable" systems working in the World War 2. These were transported by military (primitive) transport and carried on working without issue. These were sold off after the war ...and at least 1 system I know about was still in use in 1980....all soldered. And guess what, equipment running 24 x 7 x 365 is permanently vibrating (60 or 50 HZ and harmonics). More modern equipment moved to wire wrap, similar "cold" weld as crimp joints...but much better quality. That is until you hit a expensive tool that does not torque properly....then you end up with a rack of dry joints, with the only fix is to solder all. Most auto crimp connectors do not have enough mechanical strength to actually "cold" weld. Pull a few apart and see, just loose wires. Crimp connectors can also be oxidized before use...causing long term problems. Crimps are used in manufacture by OEM's as faster and cheaper than solder. Low volume crimps (the ones you buy) are also typically different to OEM high volume. Good solder requires temperature controlled soldering iron, good solder with good flux. None of which is generally used by people working on cars. There are actually mil. standards for soldering. My 1995 Yamaha has factory solder joints that are still perfect.
That sounds like a lot of sense to me. Also with my experience as a machinist, I would imagine that it would be impossible to eliminate stress raisers entirely at the crush interface.
You can't compare telecom equipment vibrations to a 500 HP engine vibrating or racing through Baja. Look up what the budget for an F1 team, they aren't buying their tools from O'Reillys. Backyard mechanics use junk tools to solder and crimp but he's talking about professionals who have tens of thousands of dollars in personal tools because they buy the best available.
@@deckmonkey1459 Looks like 145 million budget for F1 team, US military 738 Billion. I would say if they thought it was the right choice they would spend the money on the right tools, they have a MIL spec for soldering for a reason.
BTW what is the service life on a F1 car vs a Tank or airplane ? which would see more use/abuse over life as well see ALL weather conditions ? Just thought i would mention it.
@@lastcreations8845 that budget comparison means nothing. They are not racing, and they are certainly not spending all that money on one project. You will find plenty of examples in history of military spending involving shortcuts to fit within their budget too, whereas you won't find an F1 team trying to save a few bucks on wiring given poor performance means loss of income from sponsors etc... In contrast, a military that performs poorly would probably get a bigger budget 😂
At the end of the day though, it's still a pointless and flawed comparison - Taz.
@@lastcreations8845 i agree. Although racing sounds like it stresses components its not nearly as stressful as aircraft are on certain parts. Race cars will never see the longevity of aircraft. Lets drop the car from 10 feet upteen times a day and see how well it works. There is a use for both crimps and solder but frankly solder just does a better job in some spots. However crimps work better in others. Its really application.
I love that trick for soldering the wires to the terminals of that sensor. I'd never considered that before, but now I know how I can fix my grandpa's alternator charging issue.
Glad it helped Freedo! Hope you get him back up and running :) - Taz.
Yeah, I can dismount the alternator, solder the wires in place, set some epoxy, crimp on some Deutsch terminals, slap on the connectors, put everything back together, and call it a day.
@@hpa101 have potted for high end race applications (trophy trucks). Haven't used the bent wire technique though.
In my experience. The part is put in a mill, the connector is milled so you have access to the pins from the side. The terminals are used without the connector (crimping terminals onto the wires without the male connector). Slid on one by one, soldered through access window. Heat shrink over each individually. Then your DR-25. Then strain relieve it internally by putting the harness/wires into the connector slightly where it stays in place, wire kinda U'd. Tape up the access you cut with the mill. Used RT125. Set it topside of connector up, only pot about 1/3 at a time without letting harden, use a heat gun. Each time it settles and removes any air. On last pass do a nice cap/finish with heat gun and let it cure. Then finish the other side and bench test it. Zip tie tab may be jb welded into place for an external strain relief.
Little more specifics to it but you get the idea. Survives in some of the harshest conditions you'll see.
Want to learn more about the tools and materials used in a motorsport wiring harness? This interview with Zac Perkins has you covered: www.hpacademy.com/blog/crimp-vs-solder-concentric-twisting-txl-vs-tefzel-and-more-tech-talk/ - Taz.
Nice video. Same is true with Marine wiring. The ABYC standards do not allow solder connections except in one general case -the use of solder plugs for connecting large gauge wire to terminals such as battery wire to ring terminals. The solder plugs come sized to the wire and include flux. Another problem with solder connections were the results of poor soldering, i.e. cold solder joints. This problem is similar to those using cheap squish crispers. That is user error.
This is very interesting. I’ve soldered religiously for years due to recurrent corrosion issues I suffered with crimps; however, I’m admittedly a damn terrible crimper. I haven’t suffered any failures thus far; however, I certainly see your point. If a crimp joint is completely water tight, It’ll likely last indefinitely. I do always use adhesive lined shrink tubing on every connection I can get it onto. I’ll have to check on some better tools as crimped connections would save my a lot of time
No matter how good your crimp if dampness get in you will eventually get corrosion and high resistance. A proper solder joint inside a heatshrink has never failled me. I had to replace many factory crimps with solder joints in 4x4 vehicles over the last 15 years
You would have issues with your soldered connection if you left it flapping in the wind and didn't seal it either, that is not an equal comparison.
Note we're also doing things better than OEM here, they have different considerations when building a car for the road as we do when building a car for the track/competition.
You might be keen to hear a bit of what Cody Phillips has to say if you're into 4x4ing. This guy is wiring competition Ultra4 and side-by-side vehicles as well as drag cars etc: ruclips.net/video/L05Ud8NztZY/видео.html
At the end of the day you can do whatever you like with your own wiring for sure, we're just telling you what is used in motorsport applications and why - Taz.
@@hpa101 but you guys are doing the same when comparing your connector to soldered joints constantly referring to the need for mechanical strain relief because soldering bad but every crimped on pin in those connectors has a built in strain relief hence why each needs to be crimped twice once for the electrical connection on the bare conductors then again on the insulation for mechanical strain relief don't do that second crimp and you end up with the same problem the soldered joint has
100% agree with you.
@@shaynegadsden not quite, all things equal (including strain relief) solder has a different issue. I think it has been explained enough in the video already and you can reference it elsewhere if you're not a fan of what we're stating, this isn't something we have discovered or decided alone for shits and giggles - Taz.
@@hpa101 - Being in the electronics/vehicle electrical business for more than 30 years myself, you are both right... But to be fair, any hand made solder connection does not have the strain relief that the double crimp connector has.
I always used solder connections for precise sealing and anti-corrosion purposes. Where salt and other terrible things are concerned, any tinned item is WAY MORE likely not to corrode when tinned with good old lead PB based solder. I still use the lead stuff and not the crap ROHS solder provided today.
There is also one thing I would point out, I have some older anti-corrosion stuff in cans I bought that was military that works really well. (I have a lot of it) Another commercially available product is LPS-3 Rust Inhibitor. It forms a yellow brown waxy film on things when sprayed on or applied by brush or dipping. I have used this especially in RF connectors where the surfaces are silver plated with much success even a decade after being applied. Then heat shrink over it. It never goes hard and is the best to scare away the rusty or corroded monsters in any electrical environment... Especially the dreaded trailer connector and the bottoms of OEM fuse boxes.
Loved what you had to say... Try using a good solder gun. So much safer, quick and solid connections. Its a different kind of quick reliable connection and you rarely get burned :) The old Wellers are my favorite. I have more than 10 of them in various sizes.
very good explanation, soldering makes a great electrical connection, but movement and vibration at the edge of a soldered joint is mechanically weak. Hence the potting to move the mechanical stress point away from the electrical joint.
MANY thanks for the vdeo, it feels so good to see someone explaing topic sooo nicely and neatly!
OEM's use crimps where possible because it provides an acceptable, serviceable, easy to replicate and cheap connection. soldering has the capability to provide a higher surface contact area and is mechanically superior to crimps for strength. however, it doesn't do well in vibration prone environments where the end of the solder joint is prone to being a point of movement. ironically, crimps have an even worse contact point for stress risers. the booted connections provide sufficient strain relief which can 100% mitigate this, while soldered connections require skill to mitigate stress.
in all actuality, do what you want. crimps require a higher entry cost for price, and aren't as cheap to make as solder joints, but their serviceability is a strong point. bad crimps and bad solder will both fail. OEM's also design harnesses with more testing than any motorsport team will ever put a car through. heat and stress mitigation rules still apply to all electrical, regardless of race or a car with a 20 year service life.
as for potting connections, I've seen some people use a crimped pin pushed over the contact, then filled with epoxy. if you're pedantically opposed to soldering, this is a possible solution.
fine, so long as you take the resistance AND FRAGILITY OF SOLDER INTO ACCOUNT
Youcould also ask.y.s. why they only crimp in avionics
Thats it bro.. you are totally correct
Seems like "potting" would cause a concerning amount of heat to any given sensor via pins into said sensor internals.. having to get the pin hot enough to take solder properly...
@@pseudosmith9945 most electronics will tolerate soldering heat. If you're an idiot and don't know how to solder and cook things, that'll cause damage. But just soldering bare wire to a pin won't put enough heat in to hurt anything.
@@davelittle8852 avionics uses it because much of the legislation and regulations were created around being sued. The technology in the 50s was also junk for material sciences compared to what we have now.
So many (too many) people do not utilize proper soldering techniques [not being snarky, or judgemental... simply a fact] In a very broad sense, I do agree that solder connections can be an unacceptable due to great variability in the connection. I value the gas tight weld of a crimped, especially with certain metals, gauge wires, multi conductor and less heat resistant (non Teflon) dialectics. I will do multiple things when and where I can I crimp, solder and heat shrink, especially on ring terminal connectors.
I really like the quality of you work, as shown, the connector that was soldered, epoxy filled and heatshrinked (very beautiful finish product) Those are some wiring harnesses to be proud of... KUDOS
I just recently tried those solder sleeve unions and they're fantastic. I can't argue with your points, solder does have its limitations but it does allow you to maintain nearly the same wire thickness, if that matters for the application. The crimping and wiring in general you guys do looks to be top notch so I would stick with those methods.
When was a Mil Spec soldering/electronic assembly instructor in the 60's , we had reps from crimped connector companies demonstrating their wares. The key to reliable crimped connectors is to constantly check and recalibrate crimping tools to be sure that crimps are accomplished exactly as required so that the connection was electrically and physically reliable and not subject to deterioration from environmental conditions. It is debatable whether a crimped connection is, in reality , more reliable than a properly soldered connection without " wicking" problems.
When I was being taught, military spec electrical joints were only mechanical, and never soldered. When it came to solder, we always used one with the highest silver content we could get, for better conductivity. Cardas solder is the best by far IMO.
All DB connectors are available in mil spec with crimp pins. Re the solder sleave, in my high reliability instrumentation wiring I strip the cable back further and unbraid the screen then use heat shrink to make it a very flexible drain wire, easy, and there is zero discontinuity in the screen conductor.
I use to hate crimping, until I found a good crimping tool. Proper tooling matters a lot for crimping!
it's also important to match the crimping tool to the connectors being crimped.
I nearly exclusively use heat shrink solder sleeves/connectors covered with a thick wall glue coated heat shrink. I have yet to find a single connection properly made using reputable connectors fail. When done properly you cannot find a better attachment method for stranded connectors 18g-10g. 8g and below use hydraulic crimping or exothermic welding period.
I solder everything on my car, truck and boat. Solder and adhesive heat shrink tube. No issues. Ever. But I do see your point. That jumbo jet that stays in the air has most of its wiring crimped. They only use solder splices in certain connections.
That's why there is a NASA guideline on how to SOLDER splices, he talks BS.
Around here I've been trying to convince some old-schoolers for several years now of the superiority of crimping. I believe that most of the bad rep of crimping is due to inferior or clearly incorrect tools. Lineman's pliers seem to have been commonly used to crimp pretty much everything and I've come across a lot of connections that have been crimped with side cutters even.
Hahaha using the correct crimp, correct tooling and the best of the best... Soldering with the cheapest iron that shenzhen could deliver
2nd cheapest. You always go one up from the bottom to be safe ya know - Taz.
@@hpa101 Tools don't make the mechanic.. I have a few of them I'd collected over the years and modded for.. reasons.. but I do enjoy having my adjustable Weller bench model at home.. upgrade when you can is my best recommendation for anyone, but technique is paramount. Here's a skill to learn, SMD replacement with a small heat gun, give it a try.. guaranteed to frustrate for at least the first few days.
thermal wire wrap have yet to be discovered in the car community
@@GasketManzrevenge Somewhat true for soldering, demonstrably false for crimping.
@@404Anymouse I have to laugh.. you've never seen over crimped or using the wrong jaw set? Any three fingered football fkg monkey can do that.. is that what you're saying? That's what I hear when using "demonstrably wrong".
Technique in every aspect of life is what brings success. I tire of repairing repairs.
As a school trained factory certified motorcycle technician I was taught to solder unless the situation made it impossible. Most of the people I have met from the connector camp are either lazy or cannot solder very well. Soldering is a bit of an art and it takes practice to be good at it. I also find that a well soldered connection prevents corrosion and provides an excellent path for electricity. In many of the shops I worked in I was the guy often picked for wiring problems specially customer come backs. I NEVER repaired a properly soldered connection but I soldered many corroded and loose crimp connectors. Never had a twisted- soldered- shrink wrapped connection come apart EVER. LEARN TO SOLDER!
Nice that has served you well. If your career was in motorsport you would have been taught differently although things do change over time, and perhaps 40 years ago even F1 preferred all soldered connections where possible, but that's certainly not the case today 😎
Hope you continue to learn and grow your skills and knowledge until the day you die, and I hope you still enjoy your wiring projects even after doing such tasks as a living, I'm sure many times - Taz.
Great video guys. I love wiring and happen to work in aviation so this was very informative ✌🏻
Great video. Helpful information with rational reasoning. It all makes sense. Please get a tripod though. The shaky cam thing is distracting.
Well, my 3D printer used to fail and halt for no reason at times after being used for a while. I found out it was because of soldered end of wires and soldered cable extensions. Crimped everything, not one failure afterwards. Although solder looks connected and whole piece, there can be microscopic cracks introducing resistance.
I think it comes down to using proper techniques, equipment and most importantly strain relief/immobilization on the wires and connectors. Crimping can produce consistent results every time as long as you follow the directions on the box. Soldering requires a bit of skill and can lead to different results even when done by the same person.
The best Wiring Harness on Race Cars I've ever had the pleasure to work with were from J.A.S. And although 99.9% of the time we don't solder in racing. My boss did it one time. Had a crank sensor wire get pinched after a driver hit a tire barrier at the previous race. Couldn't get a replacement in time for the next race as the sensor was still good and the boss wanted to keep our spares for the track. The way the harness ran it made crimping the wire a no go. I mentioned, "why don't we solder it?" I got the great big lecture about "Never Solder Anything in Racing..etc..etc." It was Friday and we were loading out that Sat. He told me to go home and that he'll take care of it. Came into work on Sat to load out and seen the wire was repaired. I was curious and asked him. "How did you repair it?" He kinda off hand said. "I soldered it." I laughed and said. "But we don't solder in Professional Racing!" He laughed and said "We do what we gotta do, Send it!" Later on he told me since it only had to make it through that next race weekend before we got a replacement harness he wasn't worried but as a rule of thumb I should never solder any wiring. Which is a shame because I love how clean a perfect solder looks when repaired.
EDIT: As a side note, when crimping the right tool plays a major part as with anything automotive. First time I ever used a pair of good crimpers and seen how almost perfect every crimp was I threw away my cheap ones and spent good money on a set. And after my experience with
Deutsch Connectors in racing I picked up a good kit and tool. And when I rebuilt the Engine Harness for my 97 Comp T/A I upgraded as many of them as I could to that style. Unfortunately some of the GM sensors still require the old Weather Pack Style and they just don't seem to hold up to heat cycles as well. Im replacing them at least every 3 years because they get brittle and break. "Turbo LT1 and I'm still fighting Under hood Temp issues to this day. But my IAT's are good so its not my 1st concern"
That was a brilliant video, I need to upgrade my tools as my crimps suck!
This might be a helpful place to start if you need any ideas - www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ - Taz
Great very detailed video
I would argue one point however, you are correct about solder wicking but that's part of the soldering process. I was trained to solder to military specs and part of the examination is to make sure the solder has not wicked into the jacket. If you do it properly it won't happen. Easy on the heat and only apply as much solder as necessary.
I swear by soldering but there are two situations where I would use crimps - high heat environments and on large wires. But in high vibration I would solder every time with marine grade heatshrink with glue in it, crimp connections are without a doubt worse in high vibration environments. Also crimps are also prone to corrosion whereas solder won't corrode. I work in marine and all the time I see corroded wires where water has wicked all the way through the wire but the solder joint is still intact.
I friend of mine was an avionics tech (auto electrician for aircraft) He/they never crimp any wire than can be soldiered, for access and other reasons crimps are used in some places. As far as vibration, he specialises in helicopters and was maintaining rescue helicopters. Pretty hard working aircraft in all sorts of shitty conditions.
There are comments around saying the opposite, it's a divisive topic, often between different age groups too. We're talking motorsports here but if you Google for some information around soldering in avionics you will come across the same arguments interestingly. On modern equipment I believe they are a little stricter on requiring crimps, but again, I'm just going off what has been commented on the channel regarding this topic over the years as we are in a completely different industry - Taz.
Used to work on electronics for logging whilst drilling for oil, these tools were in a string behind the drill head and had the absolute shit kicked out of them at high temperatures, everything was soldered to a high standard and employees were tested on IPC theory and practical skills annually. Anyone can make a solder joint hold for a bit, same goes for a weld, but learning to do it right and know it's going to hold up takes practice. I work in the subsea industry now and by comparison everything soldered is garbage, it doesn't need the structural integrity so it's thrown together half assed.
That's also my experience with aircraft avionics. Dubs are usually crimped, however when splices and nodes are made they are nearly always soldered.
@@bowez9 we gave you sources, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this though. You can search around the internet, we are not the only ones to talk about the downfalls of soldering or crimping as well as the advantages as it seems to be no matter what we tell you, you don't trust us, so try more sources 🤘 - Taz.
@@Pro2eus Both have there advantages! But if I have to fix something with a cheap soldering iron or a cheap crimp tool, I'll use the soldering iron.
solder > crimp. Almost always. When the joint is properly prepared for solder, the thermals are adequately managed, the flux properly removed, the joint properly protected from the environment a soldered joint will last. The wire fatigue issue is also a problem for crimped joints and is a common point of failure. You haven't worked on enough cars and equipment if you haven't seen a battery terminal that's held on with four strands of copper.
I've been turning wrenches since I was a child, born into it. Mom, dad, grandpa all turned wrenches and I was exposed to it. I've used this technique on cars, trucks and heavy equipment without corrosion or failure for at least two decades.
I haven't looked in a while, but crimp db9 should be easy to find, and Neutrik used the have crimp XLR connectors up to either 6 pins or maybe 8 pins. The crimpers needed for the db series are normally several hundred dollars each, which is why most of these get soldered. Strain relief on the shell should prevent most issues with the solder joint at the pins.
As a master electrician I can tell you that both are ok. The problem is in its use. And when you crimp and you use one brand of ferules and a different brand of crimp tool you may run into problems. I use Vaco crimp tool on Vaco terminals, I use 3m crimp tool on 3 m terminals,Burndy crimper on Burndy terminals, ring terminals and spade lugs, but splices ect . I use Fox ferrule crimper on the ferules I use. The rest I solder. I use western unions and solder
5:36 That was awesome! Thanks! Thanks for the video!!!
I see a lot of black and white, Either/Or arguments for and against soldering and crimping in the comments. The truth is BOTH are suitable for automotive and aero applications. Both crimps AND solder joints can corrode if not sealed. Both will last for decades if formed correctly and protected against vibration and harsh environments. It's totally down to the individual situation.
I suspect the automotive industry's choice to crimp over solder is more to do with time, than long term durability. Forming a good solder joint and heatshrinking and/or potting it, is time-consuming compared to crimping. So it makes sense for manufacturers to crimp everything, with special tools for each different type of crimp.
Whereas for DIY builders and small tuners, having all the correct crimp tools for all the types of crimps can cost a fortune. For example, certain types of crimp tools you come across in the aero and racing industries can cost £600-upwards each. If you don't have that sort of budget you're more likely to use a different type of connection and solder.
I personally both solder and crimp depending on the individual situation. For example, if I need to splice wires together into a neat harness, so that it can be routed through grommets and bulkheads, I will solder and seal with glue-lined heatshrink. Because crimping, while faster, makes bulky connections that will probably snag on something when being routed around an engine bay and rip apart!
Also, sometimes, if I haven't got the right tool for a certain crimp, I'll sometimes crimp with what I've got and then solder the wire to the crimp as well, to make sure it can't work loose,
Obviously there are opinions on this and they may run the gamut. Most soldering methods may be failure prone, but soldering to DOD STD 2000-1 does not fall into that category. The methodology of this level of soldering is equivalent to level 3 of the new J STD of today. I was an avionics tech in the Air National Guard and I can say with great confidence that the soldering I did was of the highest quality. Methods matter, solder and flux quality matters and the equipment you use matters greatly. Soldering to this high standard allowed the solder joints to endure G forces, mechanical and physical stresses and thermal inversions without failure. When someone or some crew’s life depends on your work quality, there is no failure option available. It is an extremist ideal and compromise is not a consideration. Whether you crimp or solder, methods matter. No compromise is the rule and there are no exceptions as human life is on the line so your work is never to be less than exemplary. People don’t ordinarily operate under such scrutiny, but this is about high reliability and high quality. Passion for the work must be beyond question. I only use mil spec tools to do crimping ops. To do otherwise is a compromise of work quality. You have this passion for your work and I’ll bet you aren’t using any box store tools to accomplish your work. I believe others will say uglies and poo poo what you are saying. They aren’t working products at your level. Let the haters rant! I believe in the highest level of quality and reliability and only that level will do. What others do is their problem. I admire your level! Bravo sir!
Application is such an overlooked yet important thing.
Soldering requires skill, good tools, the right materials, some common sense and time. Soldering is hated in motorsport wiring, because the skill, the common sense and the time are all missing.
If you're good at crimping, you're going to see soldering as some necessary evil that sometimes needs to be done when it is impossible to crimp. If you are good at soldering, you don't need crimping tools. With the right supplies and the right technique, one can create soldered joints that are perfectly capable of enduring the same stress and vibrations a crimped joint can endure.
Crimping has its place. It is faster. That is why professionals and manufacturers prefer it.
Renvale who build the majority of F1 harnesses have unlimited time and budget and they crimp. They do it because it gives the most reliable results, not because it's faster and certainly not because they're lacking common sense.
Why is crimping more reliable you ask? Watch the video to find out :)
Soldering is pretty easy and if you are set up it's almost as quick as crimping. Saying professionals in motorsports don't have the skills to do it? That's just stupid. And if it's about time, why do they use Tig instead of Mig when it takes at least twice as long?
@@deckmonkey1459 The video title generalized to "in motorsport". I'm sure there are exceptions but hey, I'll go with that: I'll generalize, too, so, here, High Performance Academy represents the motorsport. He starts about the importance of good crimping tools and later on he shows examples of soldering, using a crappy cheap soldering iron and doing it the wrong way, furthermore, omitting the necessity to apply one of those purpose-built protective soldering joint heat-shrink tube to support and waterproof the wire joint that has been soldered instead of crimped.
Something had to be said about his video and the motorsport it represents. I would expect that in motorsports wiring harness manufacturing, professional soldering equipment and skills are used where appropriate but High Performance Academy showed that that's not the case: rather use crappy equipment and technique when it comes to soldering. No wonder motorsport hates it. They're doing it wrong.
You can get more or less fancy crimpable d-sub connectors, used a lot when worked in building automations eons ago. Amp 58372-1 is a pricey tool though.
Crimp and solder, correct strain relief and water proof connectors, just gives me a piece of mind that's all.
If you need to crimp and solder, you're either doing one, the other, or both methods wrong. Either method done correctly (we prefer crimping for the reasons outlined) will be sufficient and save you time too.
If you've had issues with only using crimping or soldering it would be worth zeroing in on why and changing the way you do it to give you more confidence imo, but you are of course free to do whatever you wish at the same time on your own projects 🤘 - Taz.
Now I have ratcheting crimpers, I also use a specific technique I started 30+ yrs ago of crimp, solder and shrink tube and with new glue/sealer shrink tube I'm having awesome results.
Now my plans on race cars is no shrink tube so driver/crew cab see any broken wires if needed and a small tool box with crimpers and terminals stay in the car properly secured. I've had to repair specific wires at line several times with great success. E en loaned tools out before.
Wires shouldn't be breaking often enough to warrant not sealing them, I think this is something you might be able to avoid.
Double check your strain relief techniques and if you're not already try something like Raychem DR25 for shrink tube along with moulded boots for your connectors and breakouts. Ensuring your routing is on point might help too if the issues are caused by the location of the wiring and there are alternatives that might take a bit more time but save you this headache.
Things sometimes do you wrong, but as the saying goes if you're planning for something to fail, you're failing to plan.
Tools in the car are great though. For some racing disciplines a basic tool kit is required as if the driver can't get the car back to the pits himself for the pit crew to work on it then it's a DNF, so that is great - Taz.
Soldering repairs can be done in such a way that when the solders does eventually break, because it will, the conductors will stay in contact with each other. It involves stripping one end further than the other and only soldering the first 1/4" to 3/8" together and folding it back over to the tip of the soldered joint is a the insulation of the wire that was stripped longer and the bare copper wire should be touching for most the length. Then using a good quality heat shrink that contains glue to both hold the wire in place and weather proof it. This is a technique I was taught by a automotive manufacturer and I have used for over 10 year in both heavy equipment and automotive wiring repairs.
When I build harnesses or replace harness ends I do use crimp connectors and the proper tools for those connectors, either DT connectors and the many variations that use the same pin and sockets or GM weather pack connectors. If anyone has a link the get a kit for Denso type connector repair kits I would be very grateful.
This is really just a question of strain relief; a crimped joint at the end of the crimp point is, by itself, subject to the same strain problems as a soldered wire is just after the point where the wicked solder terminates. The actual joint itself is equally strong/reliable in either case, with each having possible failure modes that come out about equal (bad crimp due to tool/pressure issue, failed solder due to cold joint or use of corrosive flux that wasn't cleaned).
The only difference is that you're using crimped connectors that contain built-in provisions for strain relief at the appropriate points, so this consideration is handled "automatically". A soldered connection correctly strain-relieved past the wicking point would exhibit similar reliability, but it will almost certainly be more labour-intensive and time consuming to implement than a crimped connection.
Interesting. I strictly use crimping except for the very particular case where I was unable to get a pig tail to wire into the harness for a repair. So I soldered the wire back into the connector where it broke off the pin
OE manufacturers use crimping or soldering according to what saves them the most money and survives beyond the warranty period. There are some applications where one or the other is preferred and I have seen where soldering a crimped connection is done.
Great topic and reinforces my own observation over the years.
Hm interesting, I repair ATVs, and I usually see crimps, I do sometimes solder, on some applications, I have done some testing a few years ago, I put the connectors in salt water, and the trick is to use a bit of silicon and double heat shrink, 2 cm on each side of the plastic insolation, and have never seen it corroded if done that way.
Great video
1980-1982 many of my soldered connections were destined for space flight. Skill development and certification was a key factor and part of that was limiting the wicking of solder beyond the area it was needed so it couldn’t wick up up the wire under the insulation. Many pin and socket connectors were solder cup type. Of the crimped connections a very expensive calibrated crimper was required. Many of these connections were then potted also.
I’m old now but if it is meant to be permanent and especially if it will be exposed to heat and humidity, it gets soldered, cleaned, and covered. Usually heat shrink.
Soldered connections are not immune to heat and humidity. Just like a crimped connection, they should be sealed - Taz.
What a load of crap! I've only been working on vehicles for 40 years, part of that time professionally. On the interior and in sealed connectors, you can get away with crimping with like you said, the correct tools. On the exterior or anywhere where the connection may experience moisture, it needs to be soldered and heat shrunk. I learned that lesson in the mid 80s while doing vehicle accessories installs where anything on the exterior or exposed to moisture had problems in a short time if not soldered and heat shrunk. Trailers are a perfect example where at the factory they don't want to spend the time to solder and heat shrink so usually with a couple of years you start having problems. I have never had a failure of any trailer I've rewired using solder and heat shrink. I've also never had a wire break at or near a solder joint. Manufacturers have had and still do have problems with crimps as I've repaired many of them. Matter of fact while I've never seen a proper sold joint fail or break, I have seen wires break at the crimp. My bet these guys are selling crimp products which is the reason they are putting out this crap, too make a profit!
you are absolutely right
I'm electronics designer, soldering _always_ creates stress concentration areas, if you have application or wiring that's under any sort of movement or vibration (even just those wires being able to move freely), you never solder that connection, you basically ALWAYS use crimp connections, use terminals (where you crimp end ferrules to if it's a stranded wire) or other connectors where the connector mating terminal might be soldered to the board but the connector itself is attached to the pins with crimp or other crimped connector.
Stress concentration regions make the wire fail prematurely when any movement of the wire causes the wire to deform plastically at the solder joint boundary because there's a hard change from pliable to non pliable.
There are systems that allow you to solder wire to board such that there's no stress concentration, but they're very specifically designed as such for that use.
And never EVER solder any wire that's to be crimped, it'll fail prematurely.
Soldered connections are also prone to creep. That manifests as a joint falling apart under seemingly small but constant stress, after days or even months. An easy experiment to try is to bend a thin wire of solder from a spool to be suspended in the air, and watch how it collapses onto the table in the course of a few minutes or hours.
In a proper solder joint the solder is not supposed to support the connection.
That would be the weakest type of solder joint.
Having just been pulling out and doing massive surgery of my harness in situ and also building new looms and branches - as well as redoing work done by myself and others over the years that just arnt to a good standard; i've learned so much doing the HPA courses. Its only just a daily street car - but its about trying to and applying best practice where you can. I would have never had the confidence other wise.
I solder all my connections, even previously crimped OEM connections.
But careful attention must be paid to mechanical support of the connection as stated in the video.
I achieve this using heat shrink tube applied twice on each connection. A small size first and a larger size over that for 3/4 inch down the wires or as required and covering any part of the connector that will be exposed when in place to also provide electrical insulation.
I've had connections done in this fashion last 35 years plus and maintain good electrical conductivity and be free from breakages.
OEM crimps often don't break but resistance at the point of crimping increases over time.
This probably doesn't matter in a race car, you'll be building a new one before resistance problems arise.
Just want to point out, using leaded solder is not RoHS compliant, and the resulting assembly should not be resold; RoHS enforcement fines can be quite steep unless the violation was via self-reporting.
Using RoHS compliant silver-bearing solder not only has a higher glass transition temperature, but it also tends to be more brittle than leaded solder alloys.
Flux is also highly corrosive and much more difficult to remove from wiring strands and insulation than printed circuit boards, which will tolerate an ultrasonic wash cycle quite nicely.
Personally, I'm a big fan of Anderson Powerpole 45A connections. The consumables are silver-plated and prevent high-resistance copper/aluminium interfaces, as well as reducing arc spatter from initial connection to a current source. Paired with some Wet Noodle silicone-sheathed fine stranded wire, and the appropriate epoxy-coated shrink tube, it has not yet let me down... Bought 250 black "negative/ground" shells and assorted colors for positive voltages/signals. Down to less than fifty. Personal story: Buddy borrows my shells, contacts, and spare cheap crimper (dent-de-lion off amazon), then complains the crimp fell out. Turns out he was using cheap lamp cord and using the largest 45A "U" contact; instead of the appropriate 30A "O" contact for the wire gauge. Clipped the end off, slipped the goo-shrink tube over, crimped the right contacts on, bic lighter'd the tube, slid the contacts into the housing with a satisfying 'click' and his ARB vehicle fridge has been trooping along ever since.
Huh wish this video would have showed up yesterday before I crimped a few wires. I crimped them wrong. I only went around the copper and not the outside wire. I ended up crimping it poorly then soldering it. Came out okay. Not a critical part though. Good video I learned something.
Learning is all part of it, and seeing how you can do something better in the future is always a good sign of progress too. Hope you're enjoying the project 😎 - Taz
If I want to join two heavy guage cables, I'll stick to solder for high electricity flow, I'll crimp for a high stress connection, and if I need both high electricity flow and high stress, I'll go for something more exotic; stuff like soldering a crimp to improve the electrical side of the connection, and using high temp hot glue for joints that aren't going to see melting point tempuratures; Hot glue provides a similar effect to potting, while being easy to re-melt and/or peel away if the joint needs to be undone or reworked for some reason.
A properly crimped gas-tight connection is superior to a soldered connection. You noticed the words "properly crimped" and "gas-tight." When a connection is soldered, the metallurgical characteristics of the metals is altered, the metals become more brittle than before soldering. If you have worked around aircraft, connections are crimped, not soldered.
Strange. I have seen both types. Quite offen i have seen inline splices with solder bands built in.
Thank you for the video. What is your opinion on the NASA cable splicing technique using twisting and solder?
Crimp connectors and solder the wire to the connector for the best 🤩
Exactly, it's win-win, don't understand why this isn't done more often
This question was brought up in a webinar. This is not ideal solution as solder would wick up the wire under the sheathing and create a new failure point past the proper strain relief. A heat shrink will be sufficient at strain relief, but if solder has wicked it self past that heat shrink the joint will become brittle and break between wire and strain relief.
For those of us lucky enough to use the specialty crimpers that are quite expensive, the choice between solder or crimping is easy. Having the proper tools to pin out your own connectors is really nice but super expensive for a hobbyist.
That is a common misconception. A quality soldering iron will cost more than Andres 'go-to' crimpers. When you're dealing with the likes of Autosport connectors then yes, the price does get up there, but when a connector alone at that level can be $500 it's all relative.
Check out this article, I think you will enjoy it: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ - Taz.
@@hpa101 $20 soldering iron is good enough to proper soldering. Show me working crimping tool in this price.
I agree with your all of your statements and I would like to contribute to your efforts of motorsport wiring with a few comments that I believe are valuable to the subject. Mainly, solder prevents corrosion in the joint. No matter how well you isolate it, heat shrink it or else, a joint is going to present interruption of conductor material and therefore present a potential corrosion failure point. Also, the heat shrink insulation is not as strong as the cable insulation, especially when subjected to oils and other chemicals and fluids. Eventually heat shrink fails and corrosion occurs inside the joins. Corrosion can also creep up inside the wire. I agree that you can crimp with enough force to produce an initial connection that is stronger that the parent conductor, however these are still two chemically different separate materials and corrosion WILL slip in between them eventually. This is not to say crimping is bad, in my opinion the best way for pins for example is solder and crimping. I first crimp the naked wire to the pin, then I solder the wire tip towards the front of the pin with a solder only wide enough to seal the front of the cable completely and bond it to the pin material, and then lastly I crimp the wire insulation on to the pin. I do insulation crimp last, in order to avoid melting it and solder only the wire tip to prevent solder from wicking up the wire. Cheers.
There are pros and cons for everything but realistically in a motorsport application vibration is a much, much bigger and more immediate threat than corrosion no matter how good or bad of a job you do with your insulation.
There are many types of heat shrink these days with the type used in a professional harness being resistant to fuel, oils and even brake fluid you're in safe hands when it is correctly applied in this respect.
You are free to do things differently and cheers for sharing your thoughts, this is what the motorsports industry does and why is all - Taz.
Thanks for replying :) Depending on the motorsport application, threats might vary. For example off roaders and cross motorbikes might have bigger corrosion concerns. Fact of the matter is that no matter what you choose, it needs to be correctly applied in order for it to work. Another benefit of crimping is that it is much faster and cheaper for the automotive manufacturers and therefore you will see soldered wiring harnesses from the factory only on some exotics.
Do you have any examples of corrosion issues with motorsport looms that were crimped? I'm not talking about an OEM loom in something that is now used as a competition vehicle, but an actual professionally constructed harness.
Renvale who build the majority of F1 harnesses have unlimited time and budget and they crimp. They do it because it gives the most reliable results, not because it's faster or cheaper to be fair.
It's an interesting topic for sure for what seems like such a small decision on the surface eh! - Taz.
I did a deep dive into this, and the intelligent take is this: The ONLY reason that crimps are better than solder is that HUMANS are better at making joints that do not fail with crimping when given the proper tools than they are at making joints that do not fail with soldering when given the proper tools, added with the fact that training humans to crimp is easier and cheaper than training humans to solder. If you take 100 correctly soldered joints and 100 correctly crimped joints and torture test them, they will perform the same. If you take 100 commercially soldered joints and 100 commercially crimped joints, the human error will be greater in the soldered set. THAT is the REAL reason that organizations set policies of crimp only. Its economics and averages not methodological. Solder is just human-error prone, requires more attention to detail, and requires more re-dos. If you soldered correctly, and crimped correctly the failure of vibration will be identical. From a DIY or cheap self-sponsored perspective however, it is a more economical route to a reliable connection via solder, since those tools to achieve that are much more affordable than *proper* crimpers which are rather costly in comparison.
it depends on the environment and what kind of stress the connections are experiencing. a soldered connection is obviously more resistant to corrosion, contact oxidation than a crimped one... when it comes to vibration, a mechanical wire wrap is more durable than solder.
something to think about: i've learned this not long ago following a group of enthusiasts reconditioning and saving the data from the Apollo program computers.. NASA went to great lengths studying the connections inside the Apollo computers (memory and logic boards containing a staggering number of wires) and found that wrapping the wires around polls/pins was less susceptible to failure (due to vibrations) then soldering or even wrapping and soldering...
@@duroxkilo Sounds like you didn't read what I wrote, because you reiterated what I rebutted. NASA didn't find that crimping was a better method than soldering, they found humans are better at crimping than soldering.
The truth!
If you talk about using the correct solder, tools, skills etc.. it's just as good!
@@snap-off5383 NASA found that when it came to computer wires and vibrations, solder was not ideal.. the material, not the process..
that's how i understand the fact that they decided for solderless wrapping from the following options:
a: soldering
b: wrapping
c: soldered wrapping
option C would appear the winner to me, but testing showed it wasn't for their application.
i should mention that they used solid wires for those computers (not the stranded type conductors).
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i'm just sharing what i learned while researching a different subject.
i pretty much solder anything i can get my hands on. :}
also, sub-woofers and bass guitar equipment (vibration prone environment) use soldering when it comes to wire connections..
@@duroxkilo Source? My google-fu failed to find it. My understanding is that terminal wraps are for environments that are prone to FLEX. (environments where they don't even trust a trace conductor on a pcb not to crack). The power of vibrations of super-powerful machines can cause flex of components when the waves traverse them. They're wrapped by machine/tool that achieves cold welding to the square corners of the specifically designed wrapping post. We made radar arrays for the Army, we had a division that made components that were wrapping post-style, I just never got to work over there. Looked cool though. If it is a materialistic improvement in those environments, you'd think Top Fuel cars would implement it. Even they must not produce the waves that crack boards, although I'm sure a rocket to space needs much more computing on-board than a racepak.
I'm an industrial electrician and no.
Just no.
Crimping always causes work hardening at the crimp, making the wire brittle, thats one of the reasons the wire will break before the crimp lets go, its brittle.
Thats why your crimp connects have to use a strain relief that holds onto the insulation, the inherent problem is that once the insulation shrinks (or decays) the wire will be free to move and cracks in the conductor are now inevitable.
The equipment I work on has to operate for more than 5 years , 9 times out of 10 the failure point in the electronics is a wire broken right at a crimp, the solder connections rarely fail.
The only disadvantage of soldering is that it is an acquired skill and requires more labor.
What people do wrong.
1. Set their soldering iron at the wrong temp 2. Fail to clean off the rosin/flux after soldering.
3. Don't use a heat sink.
4. Don't properly clean the mating surfaces.
This is not industrial wiring, but cheers for sharing your thoughts. We're just explaining what is done in motorsports from the likes of MotoGP and Formula 1 down, and why, which the reasons behind it all coming from experience in motorsports from electrical engineers and motorsport wiring professional alike 🤘
If you find your cimping efforts are failing before your soldering connections, they have not been done correctly as a rule, however, as above we are talking about motorsports here so I will refrain from speaking with authority on your own industry and day to day wiring jobs - Taz.
Industrial wiring is not the same application. You’re dealing with high power and low vibration.
Both have their place though I agree crimping is usually better. Repairing mid-wire insulation rub through I prefer crimps. Though to connect a battery cable to the battery terminal clamp I like to solder it for more contact area with the clamp. I've had battery cables pull out of the clamp and soldering has always held it securely enough in addition to the clamp for multiple years.
I always solder my wires and connectors whenever possible; it;s the most permanent and reliable way to make a solid bond without corrosion getting into the joint
Except solder is only resistant to corrosion, not immune, so you should be checking the way you are sealing your connections crimped or soldered if you have had corrosion issues - Taz.
@@hpa101 Hello, Taz; nice to make your acquaintance. I was referring to ordinary household and auto-related wiring; I do not know what you applications are, so perhaps corrosion is more of an issue for you. I just know that crimp connections often fail because they are merely mechanical joints, whereas a soldered joint is chemically/molecularity bonded and permanent.
When I worked in the defense industry, the most reliable pin connecions were always crimped and THEN soldered. Crimp MUST occur first, then soldered.
When done correctly (good crimp with no wicking up the wire beyond the terminal) this combines the best advantages of both methods. This is what I use in high corrosion environments like marine applications, or any other instances where failures can have "life or death" type serious ramifications. It takes longer to do right, but thats a small price to pay.
@@BenS12510 Absolutely! Always used heat sink to prevent wicking.
Take it a step further and crimp and solder. Applying just enough solder at the crimp to bond the ends of the individual strands to the connector. Yes it may seem redundant but it also depends on how clean of a signal do you want.
If you're crimping correctly you will have no signal issues and will not need solder. If you're soldering correctly (if that's your choice) you do not need to also crimp.
One or the other is sufficient. To do both is just adding unnecessary risk and time - Taz.
@@hpa101 I take it your expertise ends with engines. Mine comes from some very high tech companies where signal integrity is of the utmost importance. There is absolutely nothing in a engine that requires that level of connectivity or signal integrity. But by all means ride that horse high!!
crimping isnt always more reliable, a place i worked where we always sinned the tips then crimped , for some parts we would actually soldered OVER the crimps, this was equipment used in high stress/vibration/heat/cold environments, one of the issues, even with proper crimps, was actually with the mechanical connection producing heat that a solder joint would resolve, crimps can be great, solder can be great, if done correctly for the job at hand.
for joints like shown at the start of the video, we would solder thetip of the wirescrimp then secure the end of the soldered tip with solder, leaving the back end crimped, but then we would heat shrink to add a strain relief at the back even if it wasnt really needed, the main reason, we had seen units where vibration caused the wires to work out of both crimp and crimp/solder joints either breaking off at the crimp, or pulling out as outter strands broke, one of the guys suggested a strain relief and...we tested , in the end, we would shrink the back of each crimp then the whole bundle would get heat-shrink bound hear each plug (if not the full length of the wires), for some jobs we even changed from the standard kinds of pins used, to much more robust heavier connections (example from a 4pin pwm style header to a full 4 pin molex connector as an interlink with molded ends(made at our shop, 2 little gals made them so fast it took 3 testers for each of them to sort-of keep up.. testing required them plugging the cables in, and leaving them under load for a set time, if the lights turned green the cables were good, it if was orange or red, the cables were not up to spec)
what our old boss always said was, "do what works, even if it goes against conventional wisdom, just make sure it actually works" , we once got paid to rebuild an old military vehicle that was going into a museum, the electronics where...wrecked... he used pure copper to replaced the aluminum power buss rails that were... in horrible shape... the thing used an early form of breakers, that actually had a modern drop-in-replacement, that looked close enough for the client, took us 2 months to fully restore the electronics including having some old vets who worked on them back in the day, come and consult(help) get things as close to original as possible... very weird machine... sort of a mobile command/control thing that apparently wasnt widely used but was one of those projects that with some extra dev could have been actually useful for deployment overseas in numbers but had some...flaws like the alum power bus that would overheat if stressed too hard.. apparently a couple units had the box catch fire due to that design flaw...their fix was to replace the buss with..copper rods they flattened with a press just enough to fit... we actually pressed them milled and made them match the original rails shape,
they also showed us that there were mount points to put all the wires in conduits rather then strapped up like they had been from the factory and any used much for training or anything like that would have had that change made, in the end, the client was very happy, since by the time we were done it ran and all the crap inside worked again... even if we replaced some of the old lights with newer longer lived alternatives,
It is well known that solder wicked in to stranded wire makes more susceptible to vibration cracking. This of course will be worse in high vibrations environments. Like motorsports, military vehicles and airplanes. The cracking could take a long time to actually take place it doesn’t happen immediately.
Agree crimping is generally better for reasons outlined. The exception is in marine environments where if salt water does penetrate, (it shouldn't!) a soldered joint will be superior.
Solder is more resistant to corrosion by comparison, it is not immune to it, and it is a result of poor insulation for the application and not the fault of the connection method.
if you find you have water getting into your soldered or crimped connections then you need to look at your materials, tools and techniques to find which one or combination is letting you down imo, marine application or otherwise - Taz.
I have in the past both crimped and soldered connections and lugs in small boats. While connections are always encapsulated you would be surprised how well saltwater can penetrate. That will make for a high resistance joint in no time!
One thing that is a big no-no is tinning cable ends going into screwed connections. Also, if soldering, the use of zinc chloride or acidic fluxes are forbidden for obvious reasons. For automotive use crimping only has served me well.
Great informative channel! Thanks.
Excellent video, thanks!
I'm looking to get a nice set of crimping tools, ratcheting and non-ratcheting and accessories, could you link the tools that you showed in the video, or a recommendation?
Thanks again.
Edit: I just saw the link.
No worries Steve, I'll leave the article here too just for others that might read your comment: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/
For the live lesson the link is here: www.hpacademy.com/introduction-to-wiring/ - Taz.
If you have corrosion problems with solder joints, try glue wall heatshrink. It seals the whole connection. Crimping can damage conductors and visual inspection may not show this up. I prefer a soldered joint since it is very permanent and has virtually zero contact resistance. I've never had vibration issues. I think that comes down to using good strain relief and sealing, no matter which method you use
I always dip the wire in Vaseline (its dielectric ) before crimping to stop any corrosion that may affect the connection in the future along with any none waterproof connectors get a vaseline coating also.
Crimp first, then solder and cover with the proper size shrink wrap. Been doing it in drag race cars forever. Haven’t had a failure yet. Vibration on crimp only is a real problem. Vibration on solder only is a real problem. You need both for Off-road and drag vehicles which should always have a crimped, soldered and shrink wrapped connection. Yes it takes longer. Yes it is the best way. Yes it costs more. Yes it’s safer. Don’t try to change my mind.
Great explanation good tempo Was very thorough opens my eyes to wiring possibilities on my project
Thanks! Yes quality tools and consumables are expensive, but in the long run its worth it. Generall this discussion will never stop, its a bit like the good old "What Oil" question.
One thing, please use some kind of video stabilizer when filming yourself, the mini-shaking is not that great...
It is a bit, but we are just explaining where what is used and why and are not saying one is better than the other for everything. People seem to gloss over that haha
Good point on the stabilization, I'll mention it to the team here. We are trying to keep these ones a bit more casual but that's probably a little too casual eh haha - Taz.
The problem with soldered splices is that many people don't know how to do them, and there is huge variability in workmanship. Crimps do prevent this. However, soldered splicing has been used in many applications from telephone systems to spacecraft. The Western Union splice, and the lashed splice are both well-known, reliable, and accepted methods for joining wires that are approved by NASA. But it takes a LOT longer to learn how to properly solder a splice terminal than it does to learn to crimp one.
This has to be a motorsport thing. (extra vibrations?)
I recently started working for a local shop that specializes in automotive electrical repair, and I asked the most experienced mechanic there about this topic. In his 40 years of experience, he claimed that he has never had a customer come back with an issue related to a soldering repair, as long as the wire wasn't flapping in the wind and heatshrink tubing was used after.
We're not stating that a soldered connection will 100% fail, as covered, we're stating it adds and extra layer of risk that is avoided in a motorsports application.
Just because you solder doesn't mean your loom will fall apart, just because you crimp doesn't mean it is indestructible nor is either method the only consideration for a reliable connection 🤘
So what about something like solder seal wire connectors as I have watched a few videos where the connection is cut open. the solder doesn't wick it actually just encapsulates the wires, kind of like a welded crimp. I have seen several examples where the solder doesn't travel thru the wires where the solder cuff is. Now I'm not talking the knock off ,but the origionals.
Great video thank you
Ive found failures and corrosion in all types of connections done by highly skilled people nothing is perfect
100%, there are pros and cons for everything, and failures do happen. With the decision here it is merely trying to mitigate some risk of failure rather than stating that one option or the other will never fail, ever.
That said, all things being correct with your connection generally there is a root cause of failure which is often something that was overlooked as part of the strain relief, routing, connector choice for application etc etc. There is more to it all than this single topic - Taz.
I work in underground drilling on large 200ton transport trucks. After the trucks were a year old there was a lot of electrical problems because the French manufacturer used too small cross section wires and they all broke where they flex.
The factory solution was to cut all the wires where they were moving and solder on larger stronger cable. This was about 30 cables on 8 trucks. Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of vibration. Eventually every single one fractured. They all had to be done again with crimps and has never been a problem since, after circa 10khrs work.
Ouch, that is a lot of downtime for a vehicle of that type. Expensive.
Glad you guys got it sorted in the end either way. It's tricky when you get instructions like that from OEM techs as there isn't the allowance for deviations if you want to have their continued support, even if you were making improvements to their solution via extra strain relief etc.
Other than something like this which is a factory design fault, what are some of the main recurring issues you get on vehicles of this type/usage out of interest? - Taz.
@@hpa101
Yes, each truck was 1.1million euro and they caused a lot of downtime for four 20 million euro tunnel boring machines which they transport concrete to, so the costs of small broken wires can turn massive very quickly!
The whole issue was dealt with under warranty by the manufacturer since it was blatantly a design failure of their's. The first attempted repair was of their own decision and they sent technicians to perform it. Also eventually the second round of repairs. The rest of the electrical hardware installation of these machines was also very dissapointing. Extremely basic thethering, protection and strain releif over the whole loom in general. They are 45m long with 9 axels and 4 seperate chassis with all wheels steering, steering drawbars and laser guidance. The 0.5deg increment steering angle sensors on each wheel and drawbar is where most of the fractures occured since the constant moving of suspension and general vibration would work harden and fracture the wires. Also the acidic type of water in the underground enviorment would attack, penetrate and corrode any miniscule fracture in cable insulation or tiny defect in a sensor. It is attracted to current.
Yes we regularly improved the setup as we went to improve relability.
The software system was exellent on these. Every sensor on the whole machine can be accessed in real time on a touch screen providing angle, speed, voltage, resistance, tempature, fault diagnosis, location diagrams, of all engine, hydraulic pump, hydraulic system and electrical system, avaliable in both cabs. It is the electrical hardware feeding all of this was the let-down.
The hydraulic system was well designed in concept but again poorly installed on the machine and caused a lot of frayed and burst hoses mostly, which are basic repairs ,but messy and time consuming. Also the huge pressure on all the complicated suspension and steering joints along with the intense corrosion, needed a lot of repairs.
I was informed not long after that the 'electrical & hydraulic hardware department' head engineer who was responsible for all of this was fired!
re: "Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of vibration. Eventually every single one fractured." yup, and the vibration is not just from the work being performed but also the added vibration of the Diesel combustion cycle (people underestimate it's impact). i've seen that exact "thin wire" problem too, thin and Diesel DO NOT MIX as the hour meters and odometers rack up.
Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of *failure to rectify vibration at the joint*. I bet strain relief was on their mind the 2nd time around.
@@snap-off5383 it was!
It was a dissapointing afair all round.
Compared to high quality manufactured plant like Volvo and CAT who have incredibly well thought out and strenghtened harness systems. Those machines can do 20 years/20k hours service with almost (98% of the time) no electrical problems at all.
Its all true, but theres another exception, when dealing with large cables, that need large cable terminals like the starter feed cable or alternator positive cable, it is a good idea to first crimp the wire in the terminal and then apply solder to seal it from the elements, that prevents corrosion in the terminal, and the bigger cables are less susceptible to that copper fatigue failure simon described, and they are easier to secure properly.
Reliability measured over what time base? Soldered wires in low vibration environments last for decades. So that is bundled wires that do not bend or flex. Especially in marine environments where crevice corrosion is especially prevalent.
The speaker here is specifically talking about motorsports. I think that would be considered a high vibration environment.
For low vibration environments, and applications where the wire cannot flex solder would be an acceptable choice.
Another advantage of cramping is it requires less skill than soldering does.
You mention that wire strands can fracture over time in a soldered joint, at the end of the solder 'wicking'. It seems like that is due to a stiffness difference where vibration could eventually cause the strands to fatigue and crack. However, a connector also produces a stiffness difference, which could also cause strand fatigue/cracking over time. Is that not the case? In either case, wouldn't you mitigate the risk of fatigue failure with heat shrink tubing that extends beyond the ends of the solder 'wicking' (or of course beyond the ends of the connector); the heat shrink tubing would give you a more gradual transition in the wire strands between the stiffness of the solder or connector and the stiffness of the more flexible wire strands.. Or am I offbase?
My experiences have been the exact opposite. The only failures I have seen have been crimp connectors, I can't say I have ever seen a solder connection fail. I think with the tools and equipment the average backyard mechanic has it's much easier to get a good solder connection than a good crimp connection. Not disputing your points as you are way more knowledgeable than me, just adding my experience.
I solder EVERYTHING in my cars. No issues for over 20 years (one on a car that I have had for 15 years). I tend to keep movement to a minimum, similarly to how you've done your epoxy filling.
Crimps always corrode - especially underhood. I've seen way more broken crimps than failed solder points. What I do in that case is crimp, then solder into there, and then heat shrink tubing on top of that.
If your crimps are failing you are not doing them correctly. You don't need to crimp and solder, one or the other is fine if either method is done correctly.
There are 2 other points I will add.
1.) Soldering will not fail straight away or explode just because it is solder. A soldered connection might never fail for you, but as discussed, it has a higher risk of failure when compared to a crimped connection (when both are done correctly) which is why it is avoided in motorsports where possible.
2.) Soldered connections are not immune to corrosion, just a more resistant. If done correctly though, a crimp nor a soldered connection will corrode within the life of a vehicle. Only when something is done incorrectly will this be an issue, and that is not the fault of your preferred connection method whichever it is 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Rock on! I meant to say, I deal with a lot of used cars, and in the past when I was driving bangers, they were questionably wired. Crimps on those cars failed much more often than solder joints, wires all green or even black due to corrosion, but yeah, I seem to recall quite poor connections to begin with - LOTS of exposed wire, crimps seemingly done with pliers... I'm still a fan of a good solder joint though, especially on the outside wiring of the vehicle.
Perhaps I'm seeing more failures in the crimp domain as any Tom, Dick, and Harry can go to Wal-Mart and buy crimps - they're just more accessible.
You have *perhaps* swayed me to use crimps inside the passenger cabin of the car ;)
Ahh yes, so crimps done with pilers are going to have multiple issues for sure, but also I couldn't imagine someone who is so unmotivated that they half-ass things to that extreme with crimping to do much better when it comes to soldering to be honest haha
When we're talking about crimping, we're certainly not talking about that level of work, and when done correctly your work will even be better than what is done by the OEM which is generally immensely satisfying, although depending on the OEM it's also sometimes not that hard...😂
At the end of the day both crimping and soldering have their pros and cons so it's not really a case of using one or the other for everything, it's just a matter of understanding the how to take advantage of the right method in the right place, and unless you have standards set by an employer which make this decision for you, it really is a personal choice.
If you want to get started with crimping at all then you might find this a solid help: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/
Sorry for the massive reply, but cheers for the discussion dude! Happy wiring 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Thanks for the link - I DO have cars modern enough to have those kinds of connectors, and I have had fun times popping individual wires out of them in the past to find... all sorts of unpleasantries.
Always good to familiarize yourself with the enemy :P
I solder every connection…. Been doing it since my Navy days 30 years ago 👌🏾
Nice one, I think the video covers why it's not preferred in motorsport well enough but we can't speak for what the Navy does and why in their different applications. Note some Autosport connectors do require you to crimp rather than solder so there is sometimes more to it than just preference in the application we are discussing here 🤘 - Taz.
For the average joe the problem with crimping is the upfront cost of buying the right tools to do a proper crimp, not to mention the issue of training in which tool to use for which connector type. It's a lot easier to solder a connection even if it will fail in 7 years.
In the past that was true, but times have changed. A quality soldering iron will set you back the same if not more than some good entry level crimpers (that are not absolute crap).
Andres most used crimp tool is $60 USD for example. You might enjoy this: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/
That said, if someone wants to to everything as absolutely cheaply as possible, whether they solder or crimp is going to be the least of their worries - Taz.
@@hpa101 Most average people will have a $15 soldering iron, and a $15 crimp tool, and no real idea or training in either disciplines. Buying a $60 crimp tool will be too much for most, especially since one tool will not fit all crimp needs. Then there are some who have all the gear and no idea.
Most average people just don't know better yet, and if their main driver is to do things as cheap as possible, no matter if they go for those horrible crimpers or soldering gear, the results are going to be average at best. Even on a tight budget you can find good gear secondhand if you're cheap but not too lazy to look for it. I fit into this camp personally haha
There is no reason to encourage or ignore people who you know can do something better and it is awesome to see people make leaps and bounds in their skillset, and tools, which dramatically change their enjoyment and results with much more than just wiring - Taz.
So if i bugger a solder joint or bugger up a crimp job they will both fail......got it.
I think a large part of the controversy here, is generated by the fact that most people don't have the proper tools or knowledge, to make a proper crimp.
On the contrary do many of us have a reasonably proper soldering iron readily available.
To those of us that are a bit older, soldering has for many been a required skill for electronics, so we are capable of making a proper solder joint, and know how to keep water out, make proper strain relief, and so forth.
This we can achieve on just about any gauge wiring, using a $300 soldering iron, and a bit of cheap consumables.
To achieve the same with crimping, will cost a fortune in tools and consumables.
So, is crimping better than soldering?
If you're a clutz with plenty of cash to spend, or an industrial user that makes enough connections to justify the $$$, sure.
If you're reasonably skilled with a soldering iron, and have some experience with sealing and strain relief, it's every bit as good and much cheaper. It's just slower, and you really need to know what you're doing.
Andre's go-to crimpers are much less than $300 USD. Times have changed - www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ - Taz.
Solder sleeves are very unreliable though because the low temprature solder in them doesnt wick well.
With many cheap Chinese motorbikes soldering all connections makes bike trouble-free.Actually are surprised that connectors are still used in vehicles and appliances.Very few are good quality.
Same with computer(cat 5 and 6).Asked my boss why cables wont be problem free if soldered directly.His answer: another solder joint creates unnecesary resistance.Doesnt makes sense because inside connectors are actually two solder points.Which you will eliminate.Same with switches,patch pannels,etc.
Need to look into low temp solder joints. Cummins is swapping to this method. According to them it is the best of both world and the most reliable wire to wire/ wire to terminal connection.
Throw us some documentation from Cummins on this, always interested to read from the source. Who knows in a few years maybe both soldering and crimping will be obsolete, things do change eh! - Taz.
Hey Taz, I couldn't link the service information off of quickserve since you would need a profile to access the information threw the training offered by cummins but I found a video on YT discussing the same low temp connectors. m.ruclips.net/video/xCK3GQJzx74/видео.html
If you do have access to cummins quick serve let me know and I can get you the link to view threw email.
I forgot to add that this process is also offered for terminals.
@@josephbusby4625 cheers for sharing that video mate, I'll take a look after work today. We don't have Quick Serve access sadly, would have been interesting to see what the pros and cons were for them for their large application but appreciate that YT link :D - Taz.