BMW i3 22 kWh charging speed reduced after 100k km
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
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The i3 60Ah 22kWh charging rate always dropped at about 55% SOC. It's not ageing related, it was always a very conservative charging profile/BMS which was changed with the later battery pack after years of data demonstrated to BMW that the battery was outperforming their original software models. Happy to send you my pictures of the charging profile from 2015/16
Even if I enjoy the road trip videos the most I have to say thank you for this wide range of awesome content 👾⚡️Entertaining stuff, fun stuff, tech stuff, personal stuff - you‘re doing a great job Bjorn! Was also super nice to have you on our podcast show. Cheers from the BYTES ‚N‘ BATTERIES i3s crew ✌🏼
A test on a 40kWh leaf after 100k km would be good.
Aleksandr Vysockij There is a terrific graph somewhere I can’t post it here.
This is interesting!
An "old" 22 kwh pack still charges with a higher C-Rate than an new 42 kwh pack.
This is somehow a bummer for the new packs.
It supposed to be the limitation of the 125 Amps of the plug.
Too sad, that BMW didn't increase the maximum power intake, I'm pretty sure the bigger packs could manage more power than 48 kw.
Thanks for the great video and thanks for your work in general! I was able to compare these two charging speeds just by your two videos of BMW i3 22kwh and 42 kwh. You're creating a real database here!
BMW changed the Cell type from NMC111 to 622 with the 94Ah-Batteries. Maybe the i3 120Ah could charge faster (it does in fact, compared to the 94Ah) with a faster charger (or the plug as you mentioned). But honestly, i cannot remember when i was fast-charging our i3s ...
@@BeX32210 hi!
It wasn't meant as a hard critic or an argument against the i3 in general.
It's just somehow sad, that they cannot use the highest capability of charging which the pack could manage.
For me it seems relatively easy to change the plus to ccs 2, which could handle up to 150 kw.
@@PongPongDudlDu i see, we're on the same page :) I just wanted to add the info about the cell chemistry.
PongPongDudlDu Relax, its just your battery that isnt properly temperated. The 94 and 120 ramp up at 49.9 after 10 min or so when the cell temp has reached its target temp. The 94Ah still uses NCM111, BMW started with 622 on the 120 version
@@sanjinred The 94Ah is already NCM622. :) There were Rumors on usage of 811-Cell chemistry before the release of the 120Ah-version; Nevertheless, with the extended build and the announcement of future upgrades, we still might see 811-cells in future variants.
Let's see a ~100.000km
24kwh Leaf. Thanks for your great videos !
First gen eGolf would be good shit for the test.
my 5 year old e-Golf with 120k on the odometer charges slower from 95-100% as it was new.
Zoe man, we need more Zoe testing. Plenty old 22kWh out there with active cooling. Too much videos on the internet about the leaf.
Interesting video, thanks!! I have timed the percentage increments in the recent past and my 2017 33 KWh i3 (32,000 miles) charges on rapid at the identical speed right up to 93% then it takes a lot longer each percent until snails pace (if patient enough to leave it) beyond 97%. Different chargers vary but the fastest ones (some Polar Plus) are 1% every 36 seconds, that equals say roughly 10-90% in 48 minutes. Slower ones are 48 seconds for 1% (say Podpoint at Lidl). Range now down to about 110 miles this winter (mixed driving, but max 70 mph), was slightly better when new.
Yes thank you, i with to see as many old EVs tested as posable.
C-zero made by Mitsubishi, constructed in 2015 year, first reg. 2016 year, 4 years later and 27 500km. on Odo 44,4ah available, from 45,9ah(because of 4,1v per cell, instead of 4,2v). Pretty good battery.
Zoe q210 or leaf 24 kWh and 40 kWh.
About that degradation. There is surely degradation. BUT. You should know that degradation is hidden by artifically lowering rated capacity of cells. So in factsheets a new 22 kWh battery in BMW i3 has 96 cells at 3,65 V with 60 Ah nominal capacity. But in reality, those have 64-65 Ah, measured and tested. So initial degradation (happens to all li-ion) and even some following degradation is actually hidden in that starting overcapacity. The same is true for 94 Ah and 120 Ah, even if it is not as prominent and those degrade slower, as they have way lower number of cycles. And BMW i3 22 kWhs is actually very sensitive to cold in terms of battery. It simply dislikes it. Best is 35 °C, which is nominal operating temperature.
Do you have a link to the measured 64Ah capacity?
@@afelso no link, I measured it myself
@@josefsoltes8572 Did you connect the measuring equipment to the raw cells? Did you measure both the current and the voltage characteristics?
@@afelso yes, measured on new single cell at 0.5 C.
@@josefsoltes8572 At 0.5C the results would be lower than nominal. Sorry, I'm skeptical here. If you measure it, you get kWh yet you talk about Ah. I don't see why BMW would worry much about the degradation of this chemistry. Also about your claim, hiding degradation this way, you should have measured an old cell as well from a car with known history.
Suggestion, might be difficult to do though: Test the real world range/consumption on an electric car, and a comparable Petrol/Diesel car to see how well they compare. Ideally you should mount some measuring equipment to check CO/CO2/NOX emissions as well. Maybe as a race with your friend Pawel.
My ‘15 i3 BEV has almost 30k miles on it and I noticed the other day that it starts slowing the charge rate right at 50% SoC, with the battery starting with a temp around 22c (checked using hidden menu) and 20% SoC. I believe this is all related to degradation, not temperature. If it was temperature related, it would not have reached full charging speed at the beginning of the charge.
I wish some video about heating in electric cars. You tried basically all ev´s on the market you have experience. Can you make some video where you will talk about heaters in ev cars? What car has best one? Where was freaky cold :-D
This is most likely due to degradation.
Li-ion batteries charge in 2 stages, constant current stage followed by the constant voltage stage. The older the battery, the higher the internal resistance (caused by many phenomenons), this causes the battery to reach the maximum voltage earlier (395V in this case). From that point the constant voltage stage is started and the charger will lower the current going into the battery resulting in a power drop.
I believe (and with reason, I am pretty familiar with ISTA and all those battery adaptation values resets) there is software limitation artificially increasing top buffer and lowering top voltage. But sure, I have no proof.
It was always like this from the beginning.
@@josefsoltes8572 That could also be the case, it could be proven by comparing the top voltages over time.
I have the i3 94 AH Rex, 2017. When the battery is around 18-20 Deg C it will charge at full 50 Kw and at 90% it's charging at 30 Kw.
The 60 Ah i3 had a charging profile much like the 24 Kwh Leaf. It would taper off rapidly after 50%. So this video shows the i3 60 Ah charging normally in my opinion.
Obviously this will vary with battery temp, the lower the temp below around 18-20 Deg C the slower the charge for both the 60, 94 and most likely the 120 Ah too.
I think the title of this video should be changed as it could be misleading to some people, there is nothing wrong with the 60 Ah i3 in this video it's performing normally.
Why not to show battery temperature from hidden menu? I believe it is temperature issue. Battery only charges really fast when over 30 °C.
@@reggiebuffat He did. But did not check real temperature. When it is cold, it is VERY difficult to reach 30 °C.
@4:15 guess who's sleeping in the couch.
The recalibration of the i3 60Ah is not that much of a myth. There is a known issue within the software that BMW doesn't want to fix for this generation that leads to wrong values within the BMS. Recalibration restarts the process of "base value", internal recalibration and months or years later the usable capacity suddenly drops again. Of course, communicating the internal value is wrong :)
It always did this. This is no change from the original 22kWh.
Watching how the metric units and prefixes are slowly creeping into American language, I've kind of been expecting some American coming up with the unit of kilomile. But I was not expecting a Norwegian creating a kilo kilometer.
There is nothing strange about this charge. The charging power is 44+kw until the battery cell volts reaches 4.1v and then the current/kw reduces at such a rate as to keep the voltage at 4.1v per cell. This is normal.
FINALLY.. someone used the C rating.
Please test an old Kia Soul EV with high mileage on it!
Mine is closing in on 100k kilometers now (92000), but it's charging about as fast as before
Yeah, go for the Leaf 24! 👍
Test Leaf 24 kWh 2015 model With Lizzard cells. Done 60K on Odometer.
Hey Bjørn, thanks for that interesting analysis! Did you have a look at the "hidden menu"? What does the "Max Battery Cap." show in kWh? Maybe you can see there whether your theory about the top buffer getting eaten up is right...
Check previous video.
What about a Renault Zoe or a Mitsubishi I-miev?
I'd like to see the Leaf 40kw tested mine is two years old done 11000 miles and Leafspy indicates SOC 93.9%.
*40 kWh
Sorry I thought the ”h” was silent as in I can't type.😩
Did the car owner update the system?
Nissan Leaf with passive battery i vote for, do Bmw i3 22 kwh have bms ?
Every car has BMS. BMW has active cooling and preheating.
Cool video
Race Leaf e-Plus vs Ultra-Leaf made by Muxsan...
I like mostly all your videos Bjorn. But there is no point in this video
Why?
@@bjornnyland because you end it with no conclusion because we don't know if the slower charging is caused by temperature or aging. Because we already know that batteries have degradation, but should be interesting to know if the charging speed is affected by aging. I think that to do that you need to read the data with the OBD ( I don't know if it's possible with i3).
Did you read the other people's comments before? I don't think you did.
@@bjornnyland I read in the comments people happy to see the graph of charging speed for different packs and only one comment about the increasing of internal resistance of a pack caused by ageing. But you don't mention that in your video. I think that the video should be more interesting and complete with battery temperature info. I really appreciate your videos and I can understand it's hard to make a video per day.
I have talked about increased internal resistance in many other videos in the past. I think you missed them. I forgot that I need to repeat everything then :P
I mean, it’s no Tesla 😂
So helpful of you sir troll.
Samus Aran7 how is that a troll? It’s true.
@@FahvergnugenABT Cheers
Samus Aran7 okay bye 👋
Not everyone has Tesla money.
The i3 is probably one of the best used ev options in Europe. It's at a decent price and it's a very nice car overall.
Even used Teslas are much more expensive used than an i3, Ioniq, Leaf or Zoe.