Von Hayes will always be my favorite Phillie. I have his jersey as a throwback. It is an atrocitie that he is not on the Wall of fame. His stats are far more deserving than others on the wall such as Manny Trillo.
He deserves to be on the wall of fame no doubt. It's the organizational decisions that make fans undervalue Vons trustworthy years in Philly. Von didn't ask for the "5 for 1". That clouds his career in Philly which saddens me till this day. The guy stabilized alot of things and never gave an aura of entitlement. He actually carried himself in a way that tends to get players bigtime support from Philly sports fans. Dude gave what he had.
At the time of the trade, the Phillies were in a win-now mode. Their biggest need was a left-handed power hitter. Von Hayes was the Phillies third choice behind the Cubs Lean Durham and the A's Dwayne Murphy. Von Hayes was heavily hyped in Cleveland. Many were comparing him to Ted Williams. thus the reason for Hayes wearing number nine. If the expectation is Ted Williams, guaranteed a player falls short. Von was not the type of player that Philadelphia embraced. Often he came across as lackadaisical and inattentive. He also was never noted as a clutch hitter. I agree with the video that Von Hayes was a decent player. Although the trade did not end in the Phillies favor, it is far from an all-timer like Fergy Jenkins and Ryne Sandburg
Von “purple” Hayes, as he was dubbed by Len Berman, was a solid player, but the expectations for him to become a superstar may have caused many to overlook that “Stick” was good day-to-day player. My favorite memory of him was the perfect first inning against the rival Mets on June 11, 1985. Hayes belted a leadoff home run, and then later in the same inning, capped that performance with a grand slam home run. 2 HR, 5 RBI, 2 RS, 8 TB, better than most players ever get in one game their entire career. He was first ever to hit 2 home runs in the first inning in MLB history.
I remember being a kid and looking at Schmidt & Hayes as Batman & Robin of the Phillies. The Dynamic Duo! I like Hayes! He played a pivotal role for the franchise
I love this video, and the points made. I'm 46 years old, and a baseball lifer, born in Jersey, about 20 min from Philly before moving to the Pocono mts until my teen years. I'm a musician that lived in multiple cities for a bit , then resided in the heart of Philly for 2 decades before having to move to new mexico due an unavoidable job change plus a move in family roots. I'm still a Philly guy living in the southwest u.s. till this DAY, I always think back on von Hayes super favorably. I have a very very good memory (like all Philly fans lol) about all topics. That said, Yet still I have to be REMINDED that most Phillies fans have a maligned viewpoint on Mr Hayes and it really doesn't sit well with me. The 5 for 1 moniker is extremely misleading, as you have articulately pointed out. You hit the nail on the head about how stabilizing Von was to the roster, playing a trustworthy position at all 3 outfield spots, let alone stepping in for Pete rose for many solid seasons at 1b. His batting average was respectable, and actually his power, though not a standout batch of numbers, played solidly in an era where power was nothing like it is now-a-days, save for some players that were levels above in the power stats around the league at the time. But to levitate his middle of the pack at best homer stats, he had nice gap to gap slashing type of hitting ability. To me that has always been highly ignored. He didn't quite play with his "hair on fire" but he had a more stoic trustworthy grinder style that ya knew what you were getting each season before his body started giving out sooner than expected. I believe he had a stoicism, a loyal type of vibe. Which usually resonates to the core with Philly sports fans. That combined with trustworthy numbers, I constantly forget that von Hayes still ends up on alot of "top 10 Philly baseball players mailigned in the eyes of the fans" lists. Because to me , he didn't act that part nor deserve the stigma attached due to front office decisions to obtain him. The Julio France part stings. He is a remembered player where he ended up. More-so for his batting stance than anything else lol. Manny trillo served to get paid as a fan favorite, that's the part that hurts even if it were a final contract season (I believe he would have stayed if given the choice), but none of these things are Vons fault and I will always remember his gap to gap slashing, smart basepath prowess, defensive multi position availability, and an overall stabilizing vibe ... To me, due to the body type along with the speed/hitting combo, he could very well have been Philadelphia's version of Darryl Strawberry.
Great video and post, thanks for sharing. Vin Hayes was a good player. Solid. He got a bad rep due to the trade, but as you mentioned, the deal was not that lip sided. We had several good seasons with him. I’d say he is Wall of Fame worthy.
I was a HUGE Manny Trillo fan. When I found out about this trade, AND that Von was taking his number, I was outraged. Well, I became a quick fan of Von Hayes. AND……fast forward a few decades, and Nick Foles steps in for Wentz. And what number was Foles wearing…………9!!
Hayes had an injury-riddled season in 1991 and had 0 HR. Then he was traded to the Angels for pitching prospect Kyle Abbott and Ruben Amaro Jr. (Whitey Herzog was the Angels GM at the time.)
"Not Mario Mendoza numbers?" Speaking of which, why don't we call it the Uecker Line? Unlike Mendoza, Bob Uecker actually was a. 200 hitter, and he's self-deprecating enough that it wouldn't bother him at all to be associated with that average.
Sandberg was a SS in the Phillies minor-league system. So was Julio Franco, and Steve Jeltz. They kept Jeltz who never developed. Got DeJesus, who I guess was the stop gap until Jeltz developed. Juan Samuel was kept. An DP combo of Sandberg and Samuel with Franco in the outfield until Schmidt retired would have been pretty good lineup. How many SS Phillies have from DeJesus to Jimmy Rollins?
As a franchise, no team has made more idiotic front office moves than the Phillies. You could make a hall-of-fame team out of the players they have traded, cut, or passed on.
i think this one is a reach. hayes was a solid right fielder. the position every player on the bench can play. he didnt embarrass himself with the bat but again he was billed as a future pillar of the team. the phillies traded franco, an actual future pillar for a guy who was at best a 5-6 hitter in the lineup and defensively played the easiest position on the field, save 1st base, which is the other long term home for this average fielder. hayes had a mystique with his movie star looks and his slow menacing warmup swing, but lets not fall in love with a very very replaceable guy who, if you put him on the wall, you have to make room for a whole bunch of other emotional favorites who's stats just dont warrent it.
Maybe if Trillo hit better in 1982 he would of been never thrown into the deal. I saw Franco with a cup of coffee in 82 and wasnt that impressed. Phillies had Samuel waiting in the wings as he was putting up solid numbers in the minors and was their best prospect out of Franco and even Sandberg. Von Hayes was one of my favorite players once the 84 season kicked in. By this time, Trillo was a Giant and played in a Utility role. Other players involved in that trade were either playing in Japan or not making an impact on their team except Franco, who hit well mostly a singles/doubles hitter but a weak fielder,played for losing teams most of his career. So the trade paid off in my opinion
Von Hayes was my mom's favorite player. Probably my second favorite at the time, although when you're a kid you obviously aren't going to go with anyone but Schmidty.
You can’t go wrong with Schmidt. It’s a shame Phillies fans didn’t always appreciate Michael Jack as much as they should have. He was a real rarity. 17 years with the same team. And kept up until he knew his fielding would suffer. Funny, but back then he didn’t want to end up a DH for an AL team. In the ‘80s there was still a stigma around that.
The Phillies had terrible teams during those seasons. Bedrosian, Samuel, Schmidt and Hayes were good players. But the team never put all of the pieces together. Wouldn't it have been nicer to have Franco at shortstop in the 80's rather than DeJesus and Jeltz?
Everyone knows watching this. Realizes that Phillies do not do enough now in the future the current ownership spend stupid not enough they need left. Center. Shortstop 3rd base. Bull pen. A starter. And honesty a manager Hayes was a good player Morgan old. Is still better than trillo
Exactly. More proof that it organizational decisions and roster needs that shadow what von Hayes truly gave to the team for quite some time. You knew what you were getting from von. He was a stabilizer. He never acted entitled. It was not his fault what was given for him.
Good video. I was never a Von Hayes fan, but you're right about his expectations, which were sky high, as well as twenty-twenty hindsight in comparing Franco to Hayes. Who'd have thought that Franco would play well into his 40's and be productive. However, I don't think just a solid player belongs on the Wall of Fame.
Good story...on Von Hayes.... Two best hitters for Phillies Era... Mike Schmidt+ Von Hayes in 80s
Von Hayes will always be my favorite Phillie. I have his jersey as a throwback. It is an atrocitie that he is not on the Wall of fame. His stats are far more deserving than others on the wall such as Manny Trillo.
He deserves to be on the wall of fame no doubt. It's the organizational decisions that make fans undervalue Vons trustworthy years in Philly. Von didn't ask for the "5 for 1". That clouds his career in Philly which saddens me till this day. The guy stabilized alot of things and never gave an aura of entitlement. He actually carried himself in a way that tends to get players bigtime support from Philly sports fans. Dude gave what he had.
At the time of the trade, the Phillies were in a win-now mode. Their biggest need was a left-handed power hitter. Von Hayes was the Phillies third choice behind the Cubs Lean Durham and the A's Dwayne Murphy. Von Hayes was heavily hyped in Cleveland. Many were comparing him to Ted Williams. thus the reason for Hayes wearing number nine. If the expectation is Ted Williams, guaranteed a player falls short. Von was not the type of player that Philadelphia embraced. Often he came across as lackadaisical and inattentive. He also was never noted as a clutch hitter. I agree with the video that Von Hayes was a decent player. Although the trade did not end in the Phillies favor, it is far from an all-timer like Fergy Jenkins and Ryne Sandburg
Always love your videos!
Von “purple” Hayes, as he was dubbed by Len Berman, was a solid player, but the expectations for him to become a superstar may have caused many to overlook that “Stick” was good day-to-day player. My favorite memory of him was the perfect first inning against the rival Mets on June 11, 1985. Hayes belted a leadoff home run, and then later in the same inning, capped that performance with a grand slam home run. 2 HR, 5 RBI, 2 RS, 8 TB, better than most players ever get in one game their entire career. He was first ever to hit 2 home runs in the first inning in MLB history.
His real legacy: "I play like Mays, and I run like Hayes."
I still quote that movie too!
I remember being a kid and looking at Schmidt & Hayes as Batman & Robin of the Phillies. The Dynamic Duo! I like Hayes! He played a pivotal role for the franchise
I love this video, and the points made. I'm 46 years old, and a baseball lifer, born in Jersey, about 20 min from Philly before moving to the Pocono mts until my teen years. I'm a musician that lived in multiple cities for a bit , then resided in the heart of Philly for 2 decades before having to move to new mexico due an unavoidable job change plus a move in family roots. I'm still a Philly guy living in the southwest u.s. till this DAY, I always think back on von Hayes super favorably. I have a very very good memory (like all Philly fans lol) about all topics. That said, Yet still I have to be REMINDED that most Phillies fans have a maligned viewpoint on Mr Hayes and it really doesn't sit well with me. The 5 for 1 moniker is extremely misleading, as you have articulately pointed out. You hit the nail on the head about how stabilizing Von was to the roster, playing a trustworthy position at all 3 outfield spots, let alone stepping in for Pete rose for many solid seasons at 1b. His batting average was respectable, and actually his power, though not a standout batch of numbers, played solidly in an era where power was nothing like it is now-a-days, save for some players that were levels above in the power stats around the league at the time. But to levitate his middle of the pack at best homer stats, he had nice gap to gap slashing type of hitting ability. To me that has always been highly ignored. He didn't quite play with his "hair on fire" but he had a more stoic trustworthy grinder style that ya knew what you were getting each season before his body started giving out sooner than expected. I believe he had a stoicism, a loyal type of vibe. Which usually resonates to the core with Philly sports fans. That combined with trustworthy numbers, I constantly forget that von Hayes still ends up on alot of "top 10 Philly baseball players mailigned in the eyes of the fans" lists. Because to me , he didn't act that part nor deserve the stigma attached due to front office decisions to obtain him. The Julio France part stings. He is a remembered player where he ended up. More-so for his batting stance than anything else lol. Manny trillo served to get paid as a fan favorite, that's the part that hurts even if it were a final contract season (I believe he would have stayed if given the choice), but none of these things are Vons fault and I will always remember his gap to gap slashing, smart basepath prowess, defensive multi position availability, and an overall stabilizing vibe ... To me, due to the body type along with the speed/hitting combo, he could very well have been Philadelphia's version of Darryl Strawberry.
My first thought about Von Hayes is the game in which he hit two home runs in one inning against the Mets.
That was his Bill Mazeroski moment. No one would know his name if it weren't for that one feat. Well, except as it relates to the terrible trade.
Great video and post, thanks for sharing. Vin Hayes was a good player. Solid. He got a bad rep due to the trade, but as you mentioned, the deal was not that lip sided. We had several good seasons with him. I’d say he is Wall of Fame worthy.
I was a HUGE Manny Trillo fan. When I found out about this trade, AND that Von was taking his number, I was outraged. Well, I became a quick fan of Von Hayes. AND……fast forward a few decades, and Nick Foles steps in for Wentz. And what number was Foles wearing…………9!!
I know I changed to football, but my favorite number has always been 9 because of Trillo and Hayes, and Foles confirmed it.
Giles did not make a trade sober.
Hayes had an injury-riddled season in 1991 and had 0 HR. Then he was traded to the Angels for pitching prospect Kyle Abbott and Ruben Amaro Jr. (Whitey Herzog was the Angels GM at the time.)
"Not Mario Mendoza numbers?"
Speaking of which, why don't we call it the Uecker Line? Unlike Mendoza, Bob Uecker actually was a. 200 hitter, and he's self-deprecating enough that it wouldn't bother him at all to be associated with that average.
Sandberg was a SS in the Phillies minor-league system. So was Julio Franco, and Steve Jeltz. They kept Jeltz who never developed. Got DeJesus, who I guess was the stop gap until Jeltz developed. Juan Samuel was kept. An DP combo of Sandberg and Samuel with Franco in the outfield until Schmidt retired would have been pretty good lineup.
How many SS Phillies have from DeJesus to Jimmy Rollins?
As a franchise, no team has made more idiotic front office moves than the Phillies. You could make a hall-of-fame team out of the players they have traded, cut, or passed on.
Sparky Andersen was not always a Man of Honesty.
This is the same team that traded Ryne Sandberg. So trading Franco isn't all that surprising.
i think this one is a reach. hayes was a solid right fielder. the position every player on the bench can play. he didnt embarrass himself with the bat but again he was billed as a future pillar of the team. the phillies traded franco, an actual future pillar for a guy who was at best a 5-6 hitter in the lineup and defensively played the easiest position on the field, save 1st base, which is the other long term home for this average fielder. hayes had a mystique with his movie star looks and his slow menacing warmup swing, but lets not fall in love with a very very replaceable guy who, if you put him on the wall, you have to make room for a whole bunch of other emotional favorites who's stats just dont warrent it.
I was a fan of Von Hayes!
Phillies fan my whole life, Von played for the Charleston Charlie’s before coming to the big leagues. Still have a bat and a ball signed by him.
Maybe if Trillo hit better in 1982 he would of been never thrown into the deal. I saw Franco with a cup of coffee in 82 and wasnt that impressed. Phillies had Samuel waiting in the wings as he was putting up solid numbers in the minors and was their best prospect out of Franco and even Sandberg. Von Hayes was one of my favorite players once the 84 season kicked in. By this time, Trillo was a Giant and played in a Utility role. Other players involved in that trade were either playing in Japan or not making an impact on their team except Franco, who hit well mostly a singles/doubles hitter but a weak fielder,played for losing teams most of his career. So the trade paid off in my opinion
Nice try, but you can't retroactively say this was a good trade. Even if you boil it down to Franco for Hayes, Phillies still got the short end.
Von is a great guy but the trade was one of the worst in the Phillies history. Giles DESTROYED the Phils.
Von Hayes was my mom's favorite player. Probably my second favorite at the time, although when you're a kid you obviously aren't going to go with anyone but Schmidty.
You can’t go wrong with Schmidt. It’s a shame Phillies fans didn’t always appreciate Michael Jack as much as they should have. He was a real rarity. 17 years with the same team. And kept up until he knew his fielding would suffer. Funny, but back then he didn’t want to end up a DH for an AL team. In the ‘80s there was still a stigma around that.
Wasn't nearly as bad as the Ryne Sandberg trade.
The Phillies had terrible teams during those seasons. Bedrosian, Samuel, Schmidt and Hayes were good players. But the team never put all of the pieces together. Wouldn't it have been nicer to have Franco at shortstop in the 80's rather than DeJesus and Jeltz?
Yes. And some stiff named Sandberg was a throw-in in the DeJesus trade. Phillies front office incompetence would make great material for a sitcom.
Everyone knows watching this. Realizes that Phillies do not do enough now in the future the current ownership spend stupid not enough they need left. Center. Shortstop 3rd base. Bull pen. A starter. And honesty a manager Hayes was a good player Morgan old. Is still better than trillo
does hayes belong in the wall of fame without a doubt yes
💯
He was a good player. The problem with the late 80 's team. Giles,,,need for pitching and getting another bat to go with Schmidt. ,
i couldnt agree more
Exactly. More proof that it organizational decisions and roster needs that shadow what von Hayes truly gave to the team for quite some time. You knew what you were getting from von. He was a stabilizer. He never acted entitled. It was not his fault what was given for him.
Nail on the head 🎯
Good video. I was never a Von Hayes fan, but you're right about his expectations, which were sky high, as well as twenty-twenty hindsight in comparing Franco to Hayes. Who'd have thought that Franco would play well into his 40's and be productive. However, I don't think just a solid player belongs on the Wall of Fame.