I’m reminded of the statement “the more I practice the luckier I get” - you can be unlucky once or twice, when it becomes frequent you have to see that there is an underlying cause
I think you’d forgive the losses if we were blooding more new talent. But we’re not moving forward enough and drafting in the best we have and building them up. Where’s Ted Hill, Pearson, ibitoye off the bench causing chaos? Just resorting to old guard in so many positions is not progress. Our bench is not good enough in the modern game. Cowan Dickie is done. I take all of his points and Cole’s been a great servant but he should’nt really be there and is a part of the static nature of English rugby. We need new talent coming through and more experience at the helm not vica versa.
Lot of respect for both of you. Ben, you showed integrity by asking direct and pressing questions and even pushing to get a proper answer. Dan... Big ups for still doing the pod despite being in the thick of it. You should defend your team. Especially in tough times. As a Saffa, it was clear that this game wasn't easy. It was hard work. A much improved English side over the one that played under Shady Eddie. The 6N will be interesting.
Also, I’m an Aussie. I can guarantee you England is a fantastic team. Well regarded. Stunning against New Zealand. Wallabies are on the rise and underestimated. I would be proud of the English side if I was a supporter. Bloody good players. Give them a chance.
ABs fan here. Hardback by the English, I'm sure they'll bounce back in true English fashion. Absolutely love seeing the Wallabies "Schmidting it in". Unfortunate for our boys on the weekend but it was a brilliant 2nd half by France
I’m so impressed by the honesty in this podcast. You have a new subscriber. Ben did not hold back. This is proper honest analysis and discussion! Well done.
Love that Len is asking the really tough questions and Dan is answering them really well. They could easily just gloss over things and paint an unrealistic picture but this podcast is doing great because of these tough open conversations. Well done lads
Boks fan here, cheer up boys. England is a competitive team and will be a force to reckon with in the future. Colesey is right, the boys staid close to all the top teams. International rugby margins are so small. The ABs were exactly where England was earlier the year and now they are firing. Chin up, it was a good game mates.
I have been listening to your podcast since you came to RUclips and every episode is excellent. This episode is my favourite so far - two English greats having a passionate, honest and respectful conversation! Well done to both of you.
As an SA supporter, I have been impressed with the way England are playing. They are so close to being an exceptional team. They just need to hang in there.
They are very good, but thats it. They are in the right place in the rankings between 5 and 10. Its just improvements across the board that are needed. Maybe a new defence coach, players need to be fitter, a couple more talented players, better game plans, better mindset etc etc. That is the difference.
In my wee opinion, this rugby show is a shower of sovereigns. It is as good as gold. You two fellas are naturals for this yolk. Two great rugby fellas speaking the truth, sensibly 🏴☠☘
South African here. I actually think England is trending in the right direction even if the results isn't there. Some real close games against top tier teams. Good pod as always lads.
I think we're making some positive movements, but there's still some really baffling decisions being made in selection and on the pitch. It's a slow process and I'm happy to wait for the moment, as long the team slowly continues to get better.
All credit to you Ben for asking the hard questions which you could easily have avoided. The conversation was respectful and honest and you have really gotten my respect. Lovely episode!!
Love these 2. love the 3rd degree inquisition from Lenny. Appreciate Colesy not shying away either. Fine margins in international rugby. My Boks are Ricky Ponting at the minute. Have a shot for every ball. England could very easily be 2/3.
Firstly - Great content, as always, on this great channel Secondly - Massive, massive respect to Coley for coming on week after week after losing games and giving his honest opinion. Can’t think of many players willing to put themselves out there like that Thirdly - Great stuff Ben for asking the difficult questions and challenging your good friend. Really ups the integrity of this channel Lastly - with all of the above said, I am more worried about England now than before. It must be incredibly frustrating for Coley what England are going through and that shows. It seems he doesn’t really know what the problems are in the team to get them over the line and a lot of the answers he gives has a ‘frustrated ‘, ‘excuse’ and ‘what if’ tone to it. Once again, I get that. I would probably react the in same way. All the teams, however, I’ve seen turn a situation like this around had a different attitude in my opinion. More self-reflection, more accepting responsibility and more understanding of why they keep getting beat. More accepting of the fact that things are not all well and something is not right at the moment. Might just be how I interpret the situation, but my option none the less. Great stuff gents!
great Ben for pushing Dan for answers... whereas most journalists want to be friends with players so nicey nicey. You guys are already great friends which is fantastic to probe further than most would !
Ben Youngs asking the questions that need to be asked and can tell he does it because he cares. From a Springbok fan. Also agree that England try to make it a tough game and grind it out rather then be on the front foot, lets see if it works out long term
Nope, you dont get beaten by NZ, Aus and Boks and somehow 'progress'. With NZ, England could have won - a missed kick. Aus didnt gave up and just beaten them. Boks was a two score game. And they were lucky that that pass was deemed forward to disallow the try, only one funny camera angle shows a possible forard, the others show clearly the momentum of the passer being in front of the ball. England has fired their best shots and came up short, simple as that.
@cobusbrits2 you are wrong but thanks for your opinion... last year England couldn't beat Fiji and this year they would smash Fiji. They are getting better very quickly.
All class lads. Ben… being a host who allows the interviewee to fully speak their mind without interruption is one of great strengths of these podcasts. Great questions and great patience.
Lots of respect guys for that interview. I keep up with Eggchasers and Rugby pod. You will now be in the rotation! Tough questions and Coley handled them well. It’s what fans want. Open, honest dialogue. We know there’s things you can’t say but at least giving some throughout answer goes along way with supporters!
I am loving this podcast. I find myself enjoying the current/recent rugby player analysis so much more interesting than players that played 20 or 30yrs ago, looking at you Jeff Wilson! I am a South African and grew up listening to Naas Botha talk shit on Boots and All. And even as a kid i knew his analysis was garbage. Also enjoying the Boks office. Schalk Burger is great to listen too. Keep it up guys!
You guys are very close. It's great to be a Springbok supporter right now. But we've been through a lot of pain..... To be totally transparent, I'm more proud of the diversity than the results. That we're winning at the same time is indicative of our potential as a nation...❤. Respect toi England.
I will be behind this England through thick and thin and Dan Cole is right people are to fickle with their support. England are far from perfect and they will most likely keep making mistakes however i am a firm believer that it will click eventually and we will be up there competing with the best. Is their performance at the moment good enough? Not really but we just see what happens, I have actually seen more SA fans in this comment section being positive about England than England fans which is alarming. We went toe to toe with one of the best teams of all time and weren't good enough. At the end of the day its a game who people take way to seriously, the highs would not be so glorious without the lows.
Loving the podcast as a Springbok fan! Been watching every episode and I could really sense Ben probing for answers that most English fans are wanting, and Dan was utterly frustrated and showing us the pride inside the team. Having watched the game live, the English fans are still behind the team and you have quality players. Marcus Smith is exceptional and Ben Earl epitomises the grit and grind in the forwards pack. I think there are questionable things going on up top and not ideal losing two top quality coaches in less than 6 months. If Borthwick can keep the changing room behind him then I see a stronger England in 6 to 12 months. Tough lessons but we've been there as Bok fans. All the best and keep the great content coming!
I feel Dan is being defensive about his teammates ( rightly so ) but in the cold light of day Ben is correct we were tactically restricted ( I paraphrase ) and haven’t moved forward as a team.
I think (as a Saffa) it is unfair to ask Coles these questions. He has to defend his team. Any team in the Top 6 can beat each other. ENG is on a terrible run. They will have to turn it around. You can't coach every time a team goes through a terrible run. Anyway the DEMAND for International Rugby Coaches outstripped the SUPPLY.
I'm a born and bread South African, obviously a Bok supporter. I just wanna say, England are a great team and have good things coming. Stick with it, and don't fire your coach! DAN, YOU;RE BRILLIANT, AND BEN YOU TOO. Don't lose hope, your team is brilliant
Love how honest Len is - I honestly think England are living in denial The difference between good teams and great ones boils down to execution and England don’t seem to have that killer instinct at the moment Love from South Africa 🇿🇦
I agree. If England regain that killer instinct and clean up in some areas I truly believe that they can get to the next World Cup final maybe even win it because this team has a lot of potential it just needs refining
Coles has grown in my views as I have enjoyed this podcast as a South African. He is a hard worker and I hope he gets to enjoy some winning international rugby. He deserves it and props for defending your coach.
I do agree with Dan on one thing- rugby matches don’t care how much experience you have. Exactly what we think when we see Ford (having not played for a long while) in front of a form 10 Finn S. he is younger and quicker. Ford just slows all processes. No point in being experienced if you’re playing poorly.
Does Dan Cole really have to be entombed within Barbie's walk-in wardrobe? How about pulling back on the mahoosive border and allowing the guest's gorgeous faces to be more front & centre? Absolutely loving the podcasts/vlogs guys!
England is right up there with the best in the world, they just need to close out the game at the end. Steve will get it right hopefully in the six nations Saffa here good show🎉
I love every episode and the insight that you give us supporters. This was a challenging weekend and the way that Ben and Dan dissected the game, but more particularly the way the media perceived the game is brilliant. Coley was exactly right 95% of people are supportive, but those voices do not sell papers, or generate clicks on websites. It is tight margins at the top level, and there are simple touches that have not gone our way, and as Coley said we lost by a couple of points and we are the worse team in the world, but France lose to the same team by a similar margin and they are the greatest teams in the world. After the match on Saturday my partner and I asked how can we get positive messages to the team so the voices of the 95% can be heard? There is no way on the RFU website to do that, social media, on the whole is more negative than positive. This England team, under the leadership of Steve Borthwick will achieve great things, they can take this series and go into the Six Nations and do well, lets hope they do and see the media spin on their tails!
Remember that SA were down to 14 men in the last 10 mins. It’s a strange thing that England couldn’t get the points during that time, playing in SA’s 22
I love England and want them to do well, this is a rough patch. In my opinion our bench is not making an impact on the last 20 and thats hurting us. The quality is not there. I hope for the 6 Nations we look to throw some opportunity to fresh names like Hill (Bath) for example over Dombrant , just one example, who has had a crack and not really impressed.
I love the insight from Dan. There is an opportunity to establish some performance matrices that pop up in the background, winning is a great barometer for that moment in time but performances evaluations can identify improvement or declining trends. All the teams have them but it’s hit and miss with the media and pods. It would assist with balance the emotional feel respond and could evolve over time. Territory, possession, line out, scrum, ruck success, dominant tackles, kick success (territory, regathering, tee, drop), penalties (red, green, orange zone). Accessible stats that put context to the match reviews. Love when some pods bring in the stats analysis guys that go into ruck speed, launch plays etc. so much inconsistency with referees decisions etc. that make it more difficult to appreciate where teams are at.
8 дней назад
Ben, honestly love watching you as a subjective observer. Dan, totally get your slightly defensive view so completely enjoyed this for each perspective. On the point of England playing negatively to force the opposition into playing badly, totally is a thing, England played negatively to negate the threat of a potential blow out against South Africa, but in turn it affected their ability to play positively. The start was so positive from England… South Africa fought back, England became negative and slowed South Africa but also stopped themselves playing positively for the win. Great game and happy SA won, England are so close to being world beaters but it seems a mindset issue that stops them. Just my humble opinion. Great Pod though gents, always enjoy the insight.
Fair play to Ben for asking a number of difficult questions- I’ve been a fan of Dan for a number of years but having a ‘siege mentality’ when Jamie has spoken about trying to engage with and understand the fans seems at odds. I can understand it to a certain extent but it’s becoming the same rhetoric as the latter years of Eddie
We've had Borthwick for about 2 years. He's taken us from losing to France by 40 points at Twickenham to beating ireland and being a kick away from beating the all blacks. Why tf would we just throw away a coach who's doing nothing but improving the team? South africa was losing to Italy and Japan, they were desperate. Australia were losing to Wales by 34 points, a record, and fiji who lost to Portugal in the same competition. England aren't losing to tier 2 nations. They're BARELY losing to the best tier 1 nations in the world, games that are decided by the smallest margins. Rassie hasn't really had that much of a consistent effect until recently either. He was fortunate to win the 2019 World Cup. A lucky draw meant they had a pretty straight forward route to the final, and then when they got to the final they played what was arguably their best game in years. And the time between the 2019 and 2023 world cup wasn't special for them either. Yes they won a lions tour, but bok fans don't realise that it's very rare that the lions win a tour. Its almost always expected that the hosts win. And they lost to Ireland and France multiple times during those years, and didn't win the rugby championship until this year. 2024 has been one of the first years I a long time where the boks have been consistent and dominant outside of a world cup And in terms of schmidt, yes he's had a clear effect considering they beat england and smashed wales, but the rugby championship didn't go well at all and the July tests weren't really that convincing with hindsight. However I must admit he's done an impressive job to get the team in this position for the autumn tests Anyway, enough of that stupid rant. We aren't going to get rid of a perfectly fine coach because we lost to new zealand and South africa a couple times (quite literally the two most successful teams in history)
As a South African fan, I enjoy this podcast. I particularly love this one and the passion for the team. I also think England is a solid side, they just need to figure out how to close out the game and be ruthless in that department. Against SA this last game there were too many chances to go for poles that was not taken and then the ball was lost with no points at all.
Agree - smith is the only one leading attack right now but they’ll be a dangerous side once they all align. A couple of close games against some great sides, test rugby is looking good
Much respect to Dan Cole and the England team. I have to say, though, that the Springboks had a bigger part in putting England in a position to win than England did, and I say this with the utmost respect. I also agree with Dan that Borthwick is the right man for the job. However, I think he's surrounding himself with the wrong people. As a tactical thinker, he's up there with the best.
I think a lot of springbok mistakes were generated by English pressure. How many times have you guys played NZ and AB fans say "we had a shocker". Yeah because you guys were battering them in D
South Africa had plenty of points from English errors, at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Rugby is a 2 sided game where you produce your own results and can benefit from the opposing teams errors. This isn't a having a rally with a tennis racket and ball against a wall...
@limbothytimothy A lot of the players don't gel well in that Springbok team, 50 different players have played for the boks this year. The Boks didn't play their best team.
2022 - England played 12 times and the results of 6 were a win or loss by 7 points and 1 by less than 10 points. 2023 - played 16 times, 6 won or lost 7 points or less, 1 by less than 10 points. 2024 - played 11, 8 won or lost by 7 points or less, 2 by 10 points or less. So of the last 39 games, 20 games were won or lost by 7 points or less, so 50% of games. and a further 4 by 10 points or less. So the team and players have more than enough experience of close games. 9 who played on Saturday were involved in the World Cup semi final last year and a further 3 in the squad on Saturday were in the 2023 World cup squad. 7 who played on Saturday played in the 2019 World Cup Final, 1 was in the 2019 World cup squad and didn't play in the final and a further 3 in the current extended England squad were in the 2019 World cup squad. There is more than enough experience in the team/squad of playing in big games. A New Zealand or a South Africa team and their coaches wouldn't be getting this amount of grace on their record. And that's why they are consistently in the best 2 or 3 teams in the world and rapidly turn it around when they're not. The 2003 England team won 42 and lost 5 games over the 4 year period from 2000, won a Grand Slam and had a won 14 lost 1 record against NZ, SA, Australia and Argentina and against France, won 5 lost 2, back when those teams were the measuring stick. The 2019 South Africa World Cup winning team, in 2017 played 12 games against NZ, SA, Argentina, Wales, Ireland & France and won 6 drew 2 lost 4, (2 losses against NZ the best team in the World at at the time). That wasn't good enough for them and so they brought in Rassie In 2018 they played 14 games against NZ, SA, Argentina, Wales, England, France and Scotland and won 7 and lost 7. In 2019, the World Cup year, they played 7 games against NZ, Australia, Argentina, Wales and England, won 5 and drew 1 & lost 1 both against NZ. This England team, since Borthwick took over, their record against those big teams - NZ, SA, Argentina, Australia, France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales are played 19 won 6 lost 13. 3 of those wins are against a Wales team in an even worse state than England. So against top teams, England are won 3 lost 12 in the last 2 years. So 20% win record compared to Rassie's 2019 SA team's record of played 21 won 12 drew 1 lost 8, a 57% win record including the World Cup final. So this England team's record is nowhere near the records of the two teams that Dan compared the current England team to. In two years, Rassie took a SA team which was underperforming and won a World Cup. Joe Schmidt has made massive strides with an Australian team within 6 months and 11 games, which lost to Wales by 40 points last year and has had 20 point losses this year. To maybe having a shot at completing a Grand Slam tour. Wayne Smith in 2022, in 12 games, took a Black Ferns team that had been smashed by England and France twice each in 2021, to winning the Women's rugby World cup. Including beating both of those teams in the semi final and final. In all four of those cases, England 2003, SA 2019, Australia 2024, Black Ferns 2022, they all have much, much more experienced coaching staffs, with wide ranges of prior coaching experiences with a range of teams. And not the 4 years or less of top flight coaching experience that virtually all of Borthwick's current coaches have. And it is Borthwick who has chosen and put together that manifestly under experienced coaching staff for a top flight International team.
yeah @06alepea1 is right, Cole isn't saying the try should've been given, he's saying the ref should have gone back to the England penalty (I don't agree with that btw but that's his argument)
All I see Is Coley making excuses for everything instead of owning up to it. By saying they’re improving every match shows England is happy at losing by 1 or points.
I find it strange that there is confusion regarding why England are losing these games. Saying “we should’ve won those games” is fantasy. The team that wins, is the one that deserved it. Simple. They lost these games because they have no clear approach to red zone game management. That’s coaching, which means it’s fixable. The errors that are recurring in the final quarter of games are happening because the team and game drivers are directionless, which leads to inaccurate execution of skills and decision making. Indecision causes impatience which inevitably leads to unforced errors and indiscipline. The closer you get to the opposition line, the less space there is, the more structured your attack needs to be.
Coley I’m with you 100%! Can we all please be more positive. I am so tired of all areas of English media leading the charge to slate and put down our own team week after week. It can only negatively affect the boys. Are we the finished article? No. Have we shown the potentially to beat all 5 of the top teams in the world? Yes! And it’s year 1 of the WC cycle with a relatively new team and new staff. We’ve not played well and many of the players have not consistently played to their potential and yet we still were in a position to beat the ABs three times, France and the Boks. Ireland lose to the ABs by 10 points. France only just scrapped a win to ABs by 1 point. Scotland loose to the Boks by 17 points. Wales got pumped by the Aussies. We are talking tiny changes. Small individual errors. A mindset shift. A bit more cohesion. Build experience for the new very talented young players coming through so there is more impact off the bench. Give Joe El-Abd time to tweak the defence. It’s there for us boys. Back the lads! COME ON THE BOYS!
As a kiwi in my honest opinion England has the squad but not the game plan, if they were coached by a guy like Schmidt he would tap into their attacking potential, England has the weapons which is sad cause now every rugby casual going by emotions/trend are taking the mick
Dan seemed to play an entirely different character here and it was a shame to see, how refreshing would it have been for him to go "you know what, it's not good enough and something needs to change" rather than try and claim that Steve is doing a good job?! We've won 4 matches this year. Ben smashed this - Didn't hold back when it could of been really easy to. Pleasure watching Ben in this!
@@DJR1409 If it was a new member of the squad speaking, even a seasoned professional in the middle of their career, then I'd be inclined to agree with you - Realistically, no one is better than Dan at the moment in his position, and Dan is close to retirement anyway, so I really feel like he is the one calling the shots. I don't think Steve would disagree by saying that something needs to change either.
Coleslaw is right to be pssd. He's right. Top 5 teams are a point to converted try off each other. Eng are up there but aren't sealing the deal. But it's gonna happen. Cheers. And I'm a Kiwi!
Love the pod gents and the difficult questions. You boys are too hard on yourself, as a SA the discussion we always have is that you gents are an amazing team and are only one moment away from being great! Your pack alway shows up, Freddy is a classic pedigree fullback that other countries would die for, cannot be blamed for missing those steps, Smith needs no mention, what a talent, Martin, Dombrant, Itoje, Earl, Feyi, Freeman, Poortfliet, too many to mention, you gents are stacked. I mean I would never pick you over a springbok don't get me wrong (had to get it in)....but you were the better team against the All Blacks, missed opportunities at the end, as simple as that, no loss is acceptable but 1 point does not mean you are terrible by any means, it means you are probably better but for a few choices, like Colie says fine margins, you are literally right there! Ignore the broader media, only love for you gents!
I am a Bok fan and believe England is the best Northern atmosphere team. Everyone talking about Ireland and France. England is the most consistent team. Take for example 2023. They was not favorite but they was the only team in Northern team which played in semi's and they were very good. They are still. I wil not change anything because its going to click and the you guys going to be extremely good. My prediction for 6 nations england is going to win it
Agree with Coley we have been competitive in every game whilst other England teams in the past have had their pants pulled down. The team and Borthwick are improving. Worst run since 2006?! We made World Cup final in 2007! Have faith. Just get a big inside centre, start Underhill, keep Marcus at 10, and a stronger bench.
Most South Africans I've heard feel that this England team is close to cracking it. I'm not a huge Brothwick fan and he has made some obvious mistakes. But the team is improving. The margins are so so small and I do think psychology plays a big role. The Boks have played some really poor first halves, but they know how to hang in there and manage games. OK, their bench is much better than the other teams' but resilience does play a big role. I completely understand Coley's frustration with the media. I actually think that most pundits have a very limited understanding of the game.
Coley around the 4:30 mark talking about not all experience being equal reminded me of Shane Warne famously noting that Monty Panesar hadn't played 31 test matches; he'd played the same test match 31 times. [Panesar ended up playing 50 tests.]
I would like the other nations podcasters to arrange 4 their players to face questions after losses. England should not panic. The 6 Nations should be the barometer. Who else are putting their hands up to coach England?
Ive been incredibly frustrated by England this autumn, but we must recognise that only a few errors and mistakes were the difference between losing three and winning three. Im annoyed but not devastated as it isnt that far off!
England’s record against sides ranked top 4 in the world since 2003 - won 27%, lose 70%, draw 3%. A side that plays in moments and generally peaks around world cups with not much in between. England
43:57 of excuses from Dan Cole. Impressed by Ben at least pressing him on difficult issues. The Autumn Internationals were a great opportunity to blood some new players, particularly in the front row. We could have experimented a bit and given some youngsters valuable experience, or we could have picked a full strength side and won. In the end we did neither - simply emphasising that some players aren't good enough any more, which we knew already, and that picking players (Slade, Ford, Curry) with no recent gametime for big internationals unsurprisingly doesn't work very well.
Dan Cole has a point. The media is perpetuating a message that England SHOULD be the favorites in every matchup they play, but this is just not the truth. You have to acknowledge first you aren't the best, then you need to identify the areas you need to improve. Why is it that the media think England is entitled to win? England isn't going backwards, the other teams are just THAT good and England need to catchup. This is the truth you need to accept.
This is less of a rugby problem and more of a media problem. They have gone into FIFA World Cups that you know stand no chance against the likes of Brazil, Germany or Spain, but they would be routed as favourites. In cricket we would see them go up against the 2000-2010 Aussies in a series where they were absolutely blitzed, but beforehand we would hear how great this team is and how much pressure they would put the Aussies under.
I'm not entirely sure about that. I definitely agree that it's a problem that the English media expects to win every game, and when they don't win every game start to criticise everything about the team. However, I still think its important to see your team as favourites sometimes. I honestly would argue that england were favourites to beat NZ the other week. They didn't, but you saw how close they got. And england were DEFINITELY favourite to beat Australia, nobody saw that result coming. The issue is that some people think that favourite means that you are GOING to win. But let's say the odds are 51% england win 49% new zealand win, technically englabd are favourite to win, but new zealand still have a good and reasonable chance at winning. So being favourites isn't the problem. The only problem is just expecting to win every game whether you're favourites or not.
England won the football/soccer world cup 58 years ago, so are expected to be contenders every time since. England won the 2003 rugby world cup, so are expected to be winning against the best in the world ever since. Britain once ruled a global empire and some people still think that entitles Britain to some special status in the world. It's the same problematic mindset - British exceptionalism - that delivered Brexit. The media stoke that non-sense because it riles people up and sells papers/clicks.
This England team really isn’t all that bad. A few more players stepping up and - if I’m totally honest - one or two changes to get more experienced back room staff and we are where we need to be
This season: Springboks had 50 different players being exchanged .....and still win?? *World rugby teams should be afraid when Rassie selects HIS FINAL 23/25 PLAYERS 🤗🤗🤗
SAFA here! I think England played a really good game, international rugby at the moment is made up of inches! I think there were 2 or 3 situations in that game that would of swayed the game in Englands Favour. I think you guys should hold your head up high. The fact you've been to the Final in 2019 to a Semi in 2024.
I think, losing a close game, is not something to be scrutinised about. Argentina, SA, nz, ire, fra, eng, All these teams can beat one another on a good day. It's so competitive now. More then ever. Just enjoy the beauty of the game.
I agree with you Coley…people needs to relax. England is looking great-i go as far as to say Probably best england team ive seen in a while. Now they need to learn how to win again. The talent is there, the game plan is there. They just need a win and things will start happening
The transition from Ben Youngs the England player to Ben Youngs the journalist has been 🍿to watch
You can tell he doesn’t rate the coaching team
I just hope he can get some decent sponsorship soon so his daughter can have her bedroom back
@@Gilan4983😂😂
@@Gilan4983hahahahah
I’m reminded of the statement “the more I practice the luckier I get” - you can be unlucky once or twice, when it becomes frequent you have to see that there is an underlying cause
really respected Ben asking tough questions to his mate and normal co-host. And I love Coles defending his team and the coach. Great job guys!
Watch chasing the sun, boks wouldn't defend poor play, brutal honesty, and no sugar coating
@@Lourens551 This is why England are losing exactly this
I think you’d forgive the losses if we were blooding more new talent. But we’re not moving forward enough and drafting in the best we have and building them up. Where’s Ted Hill, Pearson, ibitoye off the bench causing chaos? Just resorting to old guard in so many positions is not progress. Our bench is not good enough in the modern game. Cowan Dickie is done. I take all of his points and Cole’s been a great servant but he should’nt really be there and is a part of the static nature of English rugby. We need new talent coming through and more experience at the helm not vica versa.
@@Lourens551what would you say then? Didn’t play badly just not getting over the line ranting and raving about that doesn’t make a difference
Lot of respect for both of you. Ben, you showed integrity by asking direct and pressing questions and even pushing to get a proper answer. Dan... Big ups for still doing the pod despite being in the thick of it. You should defend your team. Especially in tough times.
As a Saffa, it was clear that this game wasn't easy. It was hard work. A much improved English side over the one that played under Shady Eddie. The 6N will be interesting.
This was a fantastic conversation. Tough questions, good answers between two mates who’ve been there and done it.
Also, I’m an Aussie. I can guarantee you England is a fantastic team. Well regarded. Stunning against New Zealand. Wallabies are on the rise and underestimated. I would be proud of the English side if I was a supporter. Bloody good players. Give them a chance.
ABs fan here. Hardback by the English, I'm sure they'll bounce back in true English fashion. Absolutely love seeing the Wallabies "Schmidting it in". Unfortunate for our boys on the weekend but it was a brilliant 2nd half by France
@@sirviv As a SA fan I agree.
I’m so impressed by the honesty in this podcast. You have a new subscriber. Ben did not hold back. This is proper honest analysis and discussion! Well done.
I like how honest you are Len, you don't shy away from the hard conversations
Love that Len is asking the really tough questions and Dan is answering them really well. They could easily just gloss over things and paint an unrealistic picture but this podcast is doing great because of these tough open conversations. Well done lads
Boks fan here, cheer up boys. England is a competitive team and will be a force to reckon with in the future. Colesey is right, the boys staid close to all the top teams. International rugby margins are so small. The ABs were exactly where England was earlier the year and now they are firing. Chin up, it was a good game mates.
A very fair assessment.
I have been listening to your podcast since you came to RUclips and every episode is excellent. This episode is my favourite so far - two English greats having a passionate, honest and respectful conversation! Well done to both of you.
As an SA supporter, I have been impressed with the way England are playing. They are so close to being an exceptional team. They just need to hang in there.
They need to stop hamstringing themselves and select their best players, including the ones abroad
@@skibbitybopmdada and just hang in there -- they're looking good in so many ways
Unfortunately for them, Australia and NZ also have major room for improvement and both will improve.
They are very good, but thats it. They are in the right place in the rankings between 5 and 10. Its just improvements across the board that are needed. Maybe a new defence coach, players need to be fitter, a couple more talented players, better game plans, better mindset etc etc. That is the difference.
SA also played atrociously in parts but won it. SA lineout is shocking compared to what it was in the last couple of decades. 13 penalties?
In my wee opinion, this rugby show is a shower of sovereigns. It is as good as gold. You two fellas are naturals for this yolk. Two great rugby fellas speaking the truth, sensibly 🏴☠☘
South African here. I actually think England is trending in the right direction even if the results isn't there. Some real close games against top tier teams. Good pod as always lads.
I think we're making some positive movements, but there's still some really baffling decisions being made in selection and on the pitch. It's a slow process and I'm happy to wait for the moment, as long the team slowly continues to get better.
All credit to you Ben for asking the hard questions which you could easily have avoided. The conversation was respectful and honest and you have really gotten my respect. Lovely episode!!
Love these 2. love the 3rd degree inquisition from Lenny. Appreciate Colesy not shying away either. Fine margins in international rugby. My Boks are Ricky Ponting at the minute. Have a shot for every ball. England could very easily be 2/3.
Firstly - Great content, as always, on this great channel
Secondly - Massive, massive respect to Coley for coming on week after week after losing games and giving his honest opinion. Can’t think of many players willing to put themselves out there like that
Thirdly - Great stuff Ben for asking the difficult questions and challenging your good friend. Really ups the integrity of this channel
Lastly - with all of the above said, I am more worried about England now than before. It must be incredibly frustrating for Coley what England are going through and that shows. It seems he doesn’t really know what the problems are in the team to get them over the line and a lot of the answers he gives has a ‘frustrated ‘, ‘excuse’ and ‘what if’ tone to it. Once again, I get that. I would probably react the in same way. All the teams, however, I’ve seen turn a situation like this around had a different attitude in my opinion. More self-reflection, more accepting responsibility and more understanding of why they keep getting beat. More accepting of the fact that things are not all well and something is not right at the moment.
Might just be how I interpret the situation, but my option none the less.
Great stuff gents!
Youngs is asking very good questions👮
great Ben for pushing Dan for answers... whereas most journalists want to be friends with players so nicey nicey. You guys are already great friends which is fantastic to probe further than most would !
this is quickly becoming one of my favourite rugby podcasts (saffa here) -keep up it up lads! thank you
Ben Youngs asking the questions that need to be asked and can tell he does it because he cares. From a Springbok fan. Also agree that England try to make it a tough game and grind it out rather then be on the front foot, lets see if it works out long term
Grat podcast and podcasters👍*****Coley you great for defending your team 👏 from a Springbok supporter
From a Saffa, your team is amazing and 10 times better than last year. By next year, you guys are going to be a force to be reckoned with.
Nope, you dont get beaten by NZ, Aus and Boks and somehow 'progress'.
With NZ, England could have won - a missed kick. Aus didnt gave up and just beaten them. Boks was a two score game.
And they were lucky that that pass was deemed forward to disallow the try, only one funny camera angle shows a possible forard, the others show clearly the momentum of the passer being in front of the ball.
England has fired their best shots and came up short, simple as that.
😂. Only thing is Australia, NZ and others will also have improved.
No way they're 10 times better than last year
@cobusbrits2 you are wrong but thanks for your opinion... last year England couldn't beat Fiji and this year they would smash Fiji. They are getting better very quickly.
@BaconPancake165 last year they only managed to lose with 1 point to the Boks, now it was with two scores. You have to use multiples to make a point.
just great content with good honest reviews..no catfishing or 'entertainment'...not needed.
All class lads. Ben… being a host who allows the interviewee to fully speak their mind without interruption is one of great strengths of these podcasts. Great questions and great patience.
Lots of respect guys for that interview. I keep up with Eggchasers and Rugby pod. You will now be in the rotation!
Tough questions and Coley handled them well. It’s what fans want. Open, honest dialogue. We know there’s things you can’t say but at least giving some throughout answer goes along way with supporters!
Another great show, this has fast become THE rugby podcast for grown ups. Great questions and honest responses.
As a South African this is hard questions to answer. Very direct. Good interview. Honest answers. 💪🙌🏼
Fair play to Lenny for asking the hard questions, but felt for Coley as he's now defending the whole team
I am loving this podcast. I find myself enjoying the current/recent rugby player analysis so much more interesting than players that played 20 or 30yrs ago, looking at you Jeff Wilson! I am a South African and grew up listening to Naas Botha talk shit on Boots and All. And even as a kid i knew his analysis was garbage. Also enjoying the Boks office. Schalk Burger is great to listen too. Keep it up guys!
Great stuff. Appreciate the difficulty of dynamic as Ben has team mates in both set ups and Coley has feet in all camps!
Brilliant chat this - never disappoints!
Well done guys - As a huge Bok supporter I appreciate the hard discussion you had - very worthwhile viewing
Thank you for restoring some integrity in the Bok fan community
You guys are very close. It's great to be a Springbok supporter right now. But we've been through a lot of pain..... To be totally transparent, I'm more proud of the diversity than the results. That we're winning at the same time is indicative of our potential as a nation...❤. Respect toi England.
This was fantastic. Respect to both of you.
Good on Ben and Dan for this level of real talk
This is brilliant. Youngsy going for the jugular; facts no emotions. Coley equally standing his ground without losing his head. Brilliant watch, boys.
I will be behind this England through thick and thin and Dan Cole is right people are to fickle with their support.
England are far from perfect and they will most likely keep making mistakes however i am a firm believer that it will click eventually and we will be up there competing with the best.
Is their performance at the moment good enough? Not really but we just see what happens, I have actually seen more SA fans in this comment section being positive about England than England fans which is alarming. We went toe to toe with one of the best teams of all time and weren't good enough.
At the end of the day its a game who people take way to seriously, the highs would not be so glorious without the lows.
Loving the podcast as a Springbok fan! Been watching every episode and I could really sense Ben probing for answers that most English fans are wanting, and Dan was utterly frustrated and showing us the pride inside the team. Having watched the game live, the English fans are still behind the team and you have quality players. Marcus Smith is exceptional and Ben Earl epitomises the grit and grind in the forwards pack. I think there are questionable things going on up top and not ideal losing two top quality coaches in less than 6 months. If Borthwick can keep the changing room behind him then I see a stronger England in 6 to 12 months. Tough lessons but we've been there as Bok fans. All the best and keep the great content coming!
What an amazing conversation. This is now my favourite rugby podcast. Excellent work!
One of the best rugby interviews iv seen. Great bowling by Youngs and great batting by Cole.
I feel Dan is being defensive about his teammates ( rightly so ) but in the cold light of day Ben is correct we were tactically restricted ( I paraphrase ) and haven’t moved forward as a team.
I think (as a Saffa) it is unfair to ask Coles these questions. He has to defend his team. Any team in the Top 6 can beat each other. ENG is on a terrible run. They will have to turn it around. You can't coach every time a team goes through a terrible run. Anyway the DEMAND for International Rugby Coaches outstripped the SUPPLY.
I'm a born and bread South African, obviously a Bok supporter. I just wanna say, England are a great team and have good things coming. Stick with it, and don't fire your coach! DAN, YOU;RE BRILLIANT, AND BEN YOU TOO. Don't lose hope, your team is brilliant
Love how honest Len is - I honestly think England are living in denial
The difference between good teams and great ones boils down to execution and England don’t seem to have that killer instinct at the moment
Love from South Africa 🇿🇦
I agree. If England regain that killer instinct and clean up in some areas I truly believe that they can get to the next World Cup final maybe even win it because this team has a lot of potential it just needs refining
Coles has grown in my views as I have enjoyed this podcast as a South African. He is a hard worker and I hope he gets to enjoy some winning international rugby. He deserves it and props for defending your coach.
I do agree with Dan on one thing- rugby matches don’t care how much experience you have. Exactly what we think when we see Ford (having not played for a long while) in front of a form 10 Finn S. he is younger and quicker. Ford just slows all processes. No point in being experienced if you’re playing poorly.
Does Dan Cole really have to be entombed within Barbie's walk-in wardrobe? How about pulling back on the mahoosive border and allowing the guest's gorgeous faces to be more front & centre? Absolutely loving the podcasts/vlogs guys!
Dan Cole is a Ledge !! But him on the pitch in '24 International Rugby is like playing with 14 until there's a Scrum - Love The Channel Mr Youngs !
England is right up there with the best in the world, they just need to close out the game at the end.
Steve will get it right hopefully in the six nations
Saffa here good show🎉
I really enjoyed tha honest and frank conversation. 👏
I love every episode and the insight that you give us supporters. This was a challenging weekend and the way that Ben and Dan dissected the game, but more particularly the way the media perceived the game is brilliant. Coley was exactly right 95% of people are supportive, but those voices do not sell papers, or generate clicks on websites. It is tight margins at the top level, and there are simple touches that have not gone our way, and as Coley said we lost by a couple of points and we are the worse team in the world, but France lose to the same team by a similar margin and they are the greatest teams in the world.
After the match on Saturday my partner and I asked how can we get positive messages to the team so the voices of the 95% can be heard? There is no way on the RFU website to do that, social media, on the whole is more negative than positive. This England team, under the leadership of Steve Borthwick will achieve great things, they can take this series and go into the Six Nations and do well, lets hope they do and see the media spin on their tails!
Did I read that correctly achieve great things? Not with Borthwick's my way or the highway attitude.
Remember that SA were down to 14 men in the last 10 mins. It’s a strange thing that England couldn’t get the points during that time, playing in SA’s 22
Ben Youngs is PUNCHY!! Love it
I love England and want them to do well, this is a rough patch. In my opinion our bench is not making an impact on the last 20 and thats hurting us. The quality is not there. I hope for the 6 Nations we look to throw some opportunity to fresh names like Hill (Bath) for example over Dombrant , just one example, who has had a crack and not really impressed.
We(SA) didn't have a bad record leading up to the world cup in 2019 , we lost 1 game that entire year and won the Rugby Championship
Think he was referring to the pre 2018 Alistair Coetzee era which was an absolute shambles
Well we are never forgetting 57.0 because we never want that again
It may have been lucky with the second charge down staying in field but you got to admit PSDT looked majestic scoring that try.
I love the insight from Dan. There is an opportunity to establish some performance matrices that pop up in the background, winning is a great barometer for that moment in time but performances evaluations can identify improvement or declining trends. All the teams have them but it’s hit and miss with the media and pods. It would assist with balance the emotional feel respond and could evolve over time. Territory, possession, line out, scrum, ruck success, dominant tackles, kick success (territory, regathering, tee, drop), penalties (red, green, orange zone). Accessible stats that put context to the match reviews. Love when some pods bring in the stats analysis guys that go into ruck speed, launch plays etc.
so much inconsistency with referees decisions etc. that make it more difficult to appreciate where teams are at.
Ben, honestly love watching you as a subjective observer. Dan, totally get your slightly defensive view so completely enjoyed this for each perspective. On the point of England playing negatively to force the opposition into playing badly, totally is a thing, England played negatively to negate the threat of a potential blow out against South Africa, but in turn it affected their ability to play positively. The start was so positive from England… South Africa fought back, England became negative and slowed South Africa but also stopped themselves playing positively for the win. Great game and happy SA won, England are so close to being world beaters but it seems a mindset issue that stops them. Just my humble opinion.
Great Pod though gents, always enjoy the insight.
Fair play to Ben for asking a number of difficult questions- I’ve been a fan of Dan for a number of years but having a ‘siege mentality’ when Jamie has spoken about trying to engage with and understand the fans seems at odds. I can understand it to a certain extent but it’s becoming the same rhetoric as the latter years of Eddie
England rugby knows what they must do to improve - look at what a change in coach has done to the Springboks (2018) and Australia (2023).
We've had Borthwick for about 2 years. He's taken us from losing to France by 40 points at Twickenham to beating ireland and being a kick away from beating the all blacks.
Why tf would we just throw away a coach who's doing nothing but improving the team?
South africa was losing to Italy and Japan, they were desperate. Australia were losing to Wales by 34 points, a record, and fiji who lost to Portugal in the same competition. England aren't losing to tier 2 nations. They're BARELY losing to the best tier 1 nations in the world, games that are decided by the smallest margins.
Rassie hasn't really had that much of a consistent effect until recently either. He was fortunate to win the 2019 World Cup. A lucky draw meant they had a pretty straight forward route to the final, and then when they got to the final they played what was arguably their best game in years. And the time between the 2019 and 2023 world cup wasn't special for them either. Yes they won a lions tour, but bok fans don't realise that it's very rare that the lions win a tour. Its almost always expected that the hosts win. And they lost to Ireland and France multiple times during those years, and didn't win the rugby championship until this year. 2024 has been one of the first years I a long time where the boks have been consistent and dominant outside of a world cup
And in terms of schmidt, yes he's had a clear effect considering they beat england and smashed wales, but the rugby championship didn't go well at all and the July tests weren't really that convincing with hindsight. However I must admit he's done an impressive job to get the team in this position for the autumn tests
Anyway, enough of that stupid rant. We aren't going to get rid of a perfectly fine coach because we lost to new zealand and South africa a couple times (quite literally the two most successful teams in history)
@@AbeHopwood You make some good points - we will see.
As a South African fan, I enjoy this podcast. I particularly love this one and the passion for the team. I also think England is a solid side, they just need to figure out how to close out the game and be ruthless in that department. Against SA this last game there were too many chances to go for poles that was not taken and then the ball was lost with no points at all.
Agree - smith is the only one leading attack right now but they’ll be a dangerous side once they all align. A couple of close games against some great sides, test rugby is looking good
Much respect to Dan Cole and the England team. I have to say, though, that the Springboks had a bigger part in putting England in a position to win than England did, and I say this with the utmost respect. I also agree with Dan that Borthwick is the right man for the job. However, I think he's surrounding himself with the wrong people. As a tactical thinker, he's up there with the best.
I think a lot of springbok mistakes were generated by English pressure. How many times have you guys played NZ and AB fans say "we had a shocker". Yeah because you guys were battering them in D
South Africa had plenty of points from English errors, at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Rugby is a 2 sided game where you produce your own results and can benefit from the opposing teams errors. This isn't a having a rally with a tennis racket and ball against a wall...
@limbothytimothy A lot of the players don't gel well in that Springbok team, 50 different players have played for the boks this year. The Boks didn't play their best team.
The fact Cole doesn’t know why England being beaten in the last quarter is worrying, surely coaches have worked this out and told the players.
2 words - the bench. It doesnt cut it at this level.
Exactly
2022 - England played 12 times and the results of 6 were a win or loss by 7 points and 1 by less than 10 points.
2023 - played 16 times, 6 won or lost 7 points or less, 1 by less than 10 points.
2024 - played 11, 8 won or lost by 7 points or less, 2 by 10 points or less.
So of the last 39 games, 20 games were won or lost by 7 points or less, so 50% of games. and a further 4 by 10 points or less.
So the team and players have more than enough experience of close games.
9 who played on Saturday were involved in the World Cup semi final last year and a further 3 in the squad on Saturday were in the 2023 World cup squad.
7 who played on Saturday played in the 2019 World Cup Final, 1 was in the 2019 World cup squad and didn't play in the final and a further 3 in the current extended England squad were in the 2019 World cup squad.
There is more than enough experience in the team/squad of playing in big games.
A New Zealand or a South Africa team and their coaches wouldn't be getting this amount of grace on their record. And that's why they are consistently in the best 2 or 3 teams in the world and rapidly turn it around when they're not.
The 2003 England team won 42 and lost 5 games over the 4 year period from 2000, won a Grand Slam and had a won 14 lost 1 record against NZ, SA, Australia and Argentina and against France, won 5 lost 2, back when those teams were the measuring stick.
The 2019 South Africa World Cup winning team, in 2017 played 12 games against NZ, SA, Argentina, Wales, Ireland & France and won 6 drew 2 lost 4, (2 losses against NZ the best team in the World at at the time). That wasn't good enough for them and so they brought in Rassie
In 2018 they played 14 games against NZ, SA, Argentina, Wales, England, France and Scotland and won 7 and lost 7.
In 2019, the World Cup year, they played 7 games against NZ, Australia, Argentina, Wales and England, won 5 and drew 1 & lost 1 both against NZ.
This England team, since Borthwick took over, their record against those big teams - NZ, SA, Argentina, Australia, France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales are played 19 won 6 lost 13.
3 of those wins are against a Wales team in an even worse state than England. So against top teams, England are won 3 lost 12 in the last 2 years. So 20% win record compared to Rassie's 2019 SA team's record of played 21 won 12 drew 1 lost 8, a 57% win record including the World Cup final.
So this England team's record is nowhere near the records of the two teams that Dan compared the current England team to.
In two years, Rassie took a SA team which was underperforming and won a World Cup.
Joe Schmidt has made massive strides with an Australian team within 6 months and 11 games, which lost to Wales by 40 points last year and has had 20 point losses this year. To maybe having a shot at completing a Grand Slam tour.
Wayne Smith in 2022, in 12 games, took a Black Ferns team that had been smashed by England and France twice each in 2021, to winning the Women's rugby World cup. Including beating both of those teams in the semi final and final.
In all four of those cases, England 2003, SA 2019, Australia 2024, Black Ferns 2022, they all have much, much more experienced coaching staffs, with wide ranges of prior coaching experiences with a range of teams. And not the 4 years or less of top flight coaching experience that virtually all of Borthwick's current coaches have. And it is Borthwick who has chosen and put together that manifestly under experienced coaching staff for a top flight International team.
Marcus' pass on the disallowed try was forward.
Even if the Itoje neck roll wasn't given, that final pass was in any case way forward. So the TMO would probably have seen it afterwards.
And would have come back for the advantage that England had just been given.
yeah @06alepea1 is right, Cole isn't saying the try should've been given, he's saying the ref should have gone back to the England penalty (I don't agree with that btw but that's his argument)
All I see Is Coley making excuses for everything instead of owning up to it. By saying they’re improving every match shows England is happy at losing by 1 or points.
Man, do they usually talk like this? I'll definitely subscribe if they do. Credit to both guys for the tough conversation.
Great pod. 🇿🇦
I find it strange that there is confusion regarding why England are losing these games. Saying “we should’ve won those games” is fantasy. The team that wins, is the one that deserved it. Simple. They lost these games because they have no clear approach to red zone game management. That’s coaching, which means it’s fixable. The errors that are recurring in the final quarter of games are happening because the team and game drivers are directionless, which leads to inaccurate execution of skills and decision making. Indecision causes impatience which inevitably leads to unforced errors and indiscipline. The closer you get to the opposition line, the less space there is, the more structured your attack needs to be.
Coley I’m with you 100%! Can we all please be more positive. I am so tired of all areas of English media leading the charge to slate and put down our own team week after week. It can only negatively affect the boys.
Are we the finished article? No. Have we shown the potentially to beat all 5 of the top teams in the world? Yes! And it’s year 1 of the WC cycle with a relatively new team and new staff.
We’ve not played well and many of the players have not consistently played to their potential and yet we still were in a position to beat the ABs three times, France and the Boks.
Ireland lose to the ABs by 10 points. France only just scrapped a win to ABs by 1 point. Scotland loose to the Boks by 17 points. Wales got pumped by the Aussies.
We are talking tiny changes. Small individual errors. A mindset shift. A bit more cohesion. Build experience for the new very talented young players coming through so there is more impact off the bench. Give Joe El-Abd time to tweak the defence.
It’s there for us boys. Back the lads! COME ON THE BOYS!
20 minutes in brilliant debate, coley making a lot of sense and youngs asking good questions love it
As a kiwi in my honest opinion England has the squad but not the game plan, if they were coached by a guy like Schmidt he would tap into their attacking potential, England has the weapons which is sad cause now every rugby casual going by emotions/trend are taking the mick
Dan seemed to play an entirely different character here and it was a shame to see, how refreshing would it have been for him to go "you know what, it's not good enough and something needs to change" rather than try and claim that Steve is doing a good job?! We've won 4 matches this year.
Ben smashed this - Didn't hold back when it could of been really easy to. Pleasure watching Ben in this!
On what planet is he going to bite the hand that feeds him?!!
@@DJR1409 If it was a new member of the squad speaking, even a seasoned professional in the middle of their career, then I'd be inclined to agree with you - Realistically, no one is better than Dan at the moment in his position, and Dan is close to retirement anyway, so I really feel like he is the one calling the shots. I don't think Steve would disagree by saying that something needs to change either.
Coleslaw is right to be pssd. He's right. Top 5 teams are a point to converted try off each other. Eng are up there but aren't sealing the deal. But it's gonna happen. Cheers. And I'm a Kiwi!
Love the pod gents and the difficult questions. You boys are too hard on yourself, as a SA the discussion we always have is that you gents are an amazing team and are only one moment away from being great! Your pack alway shows up, Freddy is a classic pedigree fullback that other countries would die for, cannot be blamed for missing those steps, Smith needs no mention, what a talent, Martin, Dombrant, Itoje, Earl, Feyi, Freeman, Poortfliet, too many to mention, you gents are stacked. I mean I would never pick you over a springbok don't get me wrong (had to get it in)....but you were the better team against the All Blacks, missed opportunities at the end, as simple as that, no loss is acceptable but 1 point does not mean you are terrible by any means, it means you are probably better but for a few choices, like Colie says fine margins, you are literally right there! Ignore the broader media, only love for you gents!
I am a Bok fan and believe England is the best Northern atmosphere team. Everyone talking about Ireland and France. England is the most consistent team. Take for example 2023. They was not favorite but they was the only team in Northern team which played in semi's and they were very good. They are still. I wil not change anything because its going to click and the you guys going to be extremely good. My prediction for 6 nations england is going to win it
Agree much a different streak when losing in prior years. Each game England were in with solid chances to win these games but fell short defensively.
It is true that when games are close, the final 20 minutes are golden. South Africa thrives on closing games.
Agree with Coley we have been competitive in every game whilst other England teams in the past have had their pants pulled down. The team and Borthwick are improving. Worst run since 2006?! We made World Cup final in 2007! Have faith. Just get a big inside centre, start Underhill, keep Marcus at 10, and a stronger bench.
Most South Africans I've heard feel that this England team is close to cracking it. I'm not a huge Brothwick fan and he has made some obvious mistakes. But the team is improving. The margins are so so small and I do think psychology plays a big role. The Boks have played some really poor first halves, but they know how to hang in there and manage games. OK, their bench is much better than the other teams' but resilience does play a big role.
I completely understand Coley's frustration with the media. I actually think that most pundits have a very limited understanding of the game.
Coley around the 4:30 mark talking about not all experience being equal reminded me of Shane Warne famously noting that Monty Panesar hadn't played 31 test matches; he'd played the same test match 31 times. [Panesar ended up playing 50 tests.]
I would like the other nations podcasters to arrange 4 their players to face questions after losses. England should not panic. The 6 Nations should be the barometer. Who else are putting their hands up to coach England?
Ive been incredibly frustrated by England this autumn, but we must recognise that only a few errors and mistakes were the difference between losing three and winning three. Im annoyed but not devastated as it isnt that far off!
England’s record against sides ranked top 4 in the world since 2003 - won 27%, lose 70%, draw 3%. A side that plays in moments and generally peaks around world cups with not much in between. England
Some of the best waffling I’ve heard in a while 😂😂😂😂
Gotta love Dan Cole, sooo right in so many areas
Interesting insights - Love the pod from a Saffa
SPOT ON COLEY
Respect! Coley's a absolute legend
Facts Mr Youngs
Dan Coles is so funny, I don't even think he knows it. 😂😂😂 Top Men with Top Podcast
43:57 of excuses from Dan Cole. Impressed by Ben at least pressing him on difficult issues. The Autumn Internationals were a great opportunity to blood some new players, particularly in the front row. We could have experimented a bit and given some youngsters valuable experience, or we could have picked a full strength side and won. In the end we did neither - simply emphasising that some players aren't good enough any more, which we knew already, and that picking players (Slade, Ford, Curry) with no recent gametime for big internationals unsurprisingly doesn't work very well.
Love the pod! How come the tour isn’t coming up north? 😢
Dan Cole has a point. The media is perpetuating a message that England SHOULD be the favorites in every matchup they play, but this is just not the truth. You have to acknowledge first you aren't the best, then you need to identify the areas you need to improve. Why is it that the media think England is entitled to win? England isn't going backwards, the other teams are just THAT good and England need to catchup. This is the truth you need to accept.
This is less of a rugby problem and more of a media problem. They have gone into FIFA World Cups that you know stand no chance against the likes of Brazil, Germany or Spain, but they would be routed as favourites. In cricket we would see them go up against the 2000-2010 Aussies in a series where they were absolutely blitzed, but beforehand we would hear how great this team is and how much pressure they would put the Aussies under.
I'm not entirely sure about that. I definitely agree that it's a problem that the English media expects to win every game, and when they don't win every game start to criticise everything about the team. However, I still think its important to see your team as favourites sometimes. I honestly would argue that england were favourites to beat NZ the other week. They didn't, but you saw how close they got. And england were DEFINITELY favourite to beat Australia, nobody saw that result coming. The issue is that some people think that favourite means that you are GOING to win. But let's say the odds are 51% england win 49% new zealand win, technically englabd are favourite to win, but new zealand still have a good and reasonable chance at winning.
So being favourites isn't the problem. The only problem is just expecting to win every game whether you're favourites or not.
England won the football/soccer world cup 58 years ago, so are expected to be contenders every time since. England won the 2003 rugby world cup, so are expected to be winning against the best in the world ever since. Britain once ruled a global empire and some people still think that entitles Britain to some special status in the world. It's the same problematic mindset - British exceptionalism - that delivered Brexit.
The media stoke that non-sense because it riles people up and sells papers/clicks.
This England team really isn’t all that bad. A few more players stepping up and - if I’m totally honest - one or two changes to get more experienced back room staff and we are where we need to be
This season: Springboks had 50 different players being exchanged .....and still win?? *World rugby teams should be afraid when Rassie selects HIS FINAL 23/25 PLAYERS 🤗🤗🤗
SAFA here! I think England played a really good game, international rugby at the moment is made up of inches! I think there were 2 or 3 situations in that game that would of swayed the game in Englands Favour. I think you guys should hold your head up high. The fact you've been to the Final in 2019 to a Semi in 2024.
Great podcast. The pink and the weird smoke effect may take getting used to though.
I think, losing a close game, is not something to be scrutinised about.
Argentina, SA, nz, ire, fra, eng,
All these teams can beat one another on a good day. It's so competitive now. More then ever.
Just enjoy the beauty of the game.
I agree with you Coley…people needs to relax. England is looking great-i go as far as to say Probably best england team ive seen in a while. Now they need to learn how to win again. The talent is there, the game plan is there. They just need a win and things will start happening