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A Look at Highlander (1986) 1 of 3
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- Опубликовано: 22 мар 2024
- The story of a contest throughout history among immortals until the time of the Gathering, where they will face a challenge even immortals may not survive: New York City.
"Some guy named 'Nash'..." And suddenly Nash of Radio Dead Air gets flashbacks of reviewing this 10 years ago, and all the times he felt called out.
I remember that video!
Ah, Highlandeer: As many of us fans have said: "There Should Have Been Only One" 😂
On the 'kicking him off the boat' scene: I've always had trouble with this. Going by the rules of this movie only, he should have still died by drowning, only to come to moments later......and drown again of course 😅
Finally on 'Pavlov Conditioning": Yep, I can understand that. Lets just say that awhile back I was channel surfing, and I saw halfway into 'Wrecking Ball', with Miley swinging on said ball Nekkid, and said "Meh', and kept surfing.
Later on I saw the video from the beginning, and suddenly got 'Neuron Activation' when she was swinging the sledge hammer, and I kept thinking 'What changed my mind just now?".......and then I remembered the last 15 minutes of 'Alien' I saw as a young lad....'Ohhhh!" 😅 😏
Na, the TV show introduced the whole "dying and resurrecting" rule. No immortal does that in this movie.
In the movie, they are truly immortal, without death. They do not die and resurrect, but continue to live no matter how lethal something is. Kurgan does not die when shot with a full magazine from an uzi, but lives despite all the holes in him.
@@chris_c1701 Definitely one of the main reasons why I still prefer the movie. 😊
One of the funniest things I've ever heard about this movie was from a podcast called "Junkfood Cinema" where one of the co hosts mentions that his wife asked "Why is Connor McLeod dressed like McGruff the Crime Dog?"
I still love this movie either way but that observation delights me
Oh a fellow junkion!
Dude. I watch/listen to your content so much. It always surprises me when I go to like your vids and you only have double digits.
He's criminally underrated
You made a great point on Highlander two how the explanation they made for the origin of the immortals, was extremely terrible on the level of Star Wars prequel midichlorians, I never saw the commentary track, but what you said the directors comment about how the audience doesn’t want the explanation is pretty Spot on, Just because the Director came up with a terrible explanation and the audience called BS on it. The arrogant Director thinks that their BS is untouchable.
That was worst then midiclorians. Do entirely to the fact that midiclorians were simply (while stupid) but most people cannot actually comprehend it. While the Highlander retcon was under nonsense but somehow everyone still got it.
I think it's worse than midichlorians, and I say this as someone who really doesn't like midichlorians. Midichlorians are unnecessary and cause multiple plot holes (the Force being this obscure thing that almost nobody believes in during the OT is a lot harder to believe when there's an empirically measurable basis for its existence that can be checked using the rough equivalent of a smartphone app,) but they don't cause that many problems by themselves (people probably wouldn't care nearly as much about them if the same film hadn't characterised the Jedi as weird, culty, emotionless zealots who indoctrinate babies into their ranks.)
Zeist breaks an already broken film and just refuses to stop finding more ways to break it further.
I thought it was a great idea just poorly executed.
Just have the priests declare Connor and Ramirez (who should have non-Earthly names) guilty of something and then cut to Katana executing them through beheading. And then the lore can be expanded to the notion that when one of the Immortals die, they’re reincarnated on another world to try to win The Prize all over again. Adds a sort of Buddhist meets Christianity angle given that the massive energy released when MacCleod wins and gains the ability to grow old and die is like entering Heaven and/or Nirvana after walking many miles in many lifestyle as a test of one’s soul. You could still have the mystery of who started the Immortal Game, where did Ramirez go after Kurgan bested him, and how long had any of these characters been stuck in the eternal cycle before they came close to winning?
Would also allow new Immortals to show up afterward by simply saying new people reincarnated on Earth without violating the “There can be only one” edict.
@@Talisguy I don't like midiclorians. But all they are is a bacteria that is attracted to force sensitivity not causing it. Everyone just makes up the rest of it.
Audiences often do NOT know what they want
"A gun that fire lawyers" now That's a Doom clone weapon if there ever was one.
The best hot take I’ve read for Highlander is that it’s basically a flipped version of the original Terminator. The biggest tell is that Connor and Kurrgen are both dressed just like Reese and the Terminator respectively. Beyond that, these warriors come from the past instead of the future, and they fight through our modern streets with swords instead of guns.
I haven't seen the Highlander since probably the early '90s at the latest. this will be an interesting review.
I don't know how many times I've seen this movie, how have I never realized The Freebirds are in it?!?
I think the problem with Highlander in terms of questions and answers is. . .
Well, the film really begs answers, and as the Series expanded on the lore, those questions got bigger. There clearly is some point and reason to all this, Immortals fighting and gaining power from killing each other, the idea of the Gathering and that "there can be only one" who wins the Prize, there's clearly some structure enforced on this from beyond. While it can be said that sometimes the mystery itself is more important than the resolution of that mystery, in this case those questions are part of the foundation of the franchise. The answers that have been advanced have been disliked because they're bad answers, not because the fans don't want answers.
I think one of the best attempts the franchise made is in the Series, the episode "The Messenger," where Ron Perlman posits that the Game, the Gathering, and the Prize are all fake, things Immortals made up to try and explain their existence. That's interesting idea. . . except when you take into account the film treating the Gathering and the Prize as very real things. Of course, Highlander "canon" is all over the place.
The 10th anniversary DVD has a special feature showing notes from the script and the novelisation fills in the blanks. All the answers are right there, but not one RUclipsr has touched on it. It's almost like they refuse to.
The origin of the immortals is that they're part of nature. One in every million or so are simply born. They're energy sinks. In the novelisation, they could draw strength from natural energy (lightning, starlight, etc.).
The secret of The Prize is explained in amazing detail. All of the immortals are born with telepathy. It's how they can sense one another. Each immortal has a different cut of a whole and they're not all equal. For instance, Connor and Kurgan are born with bigger cuts than others. The Quickening is each one absorbing that immortal 's cut of "the pie". The Prize is total telepathic awareness. There were scenes that explained this better in the script, but they opted to go with special effects instead. 🤷♂️
The TV show introduced the whole "dying and resurrecting" rule and completely removed the psychic element, except for the sensitivity to other immortals. Also that there was an immortal on every corner. Lol Connor met 3 other immortals after Ramirez and only killed one before the opening fight of the movie.
The novelisation did something interesting by removing their ability to sense one another. An immortal could just tell another by their body language, how they carried themselves.
It's all worth diving into. Every time I see a new Highlander Explained video get uploaded I hope that this is the one that'll get it right. Still waiting, though...
@@shadowvessel Well, novelizations are usually based on early drafts of a script, and sometimes things change a great deal in that time. None of those explanations are bad, mind, and a lot of it falls in line with my thinking on the franchise as a whole. But sometimes in the development of a script, you toss out ideas to see what works, only to decide it doesn't really work and yank it out. So I wouldn't personally say the novelization is any more "right" than any other version of the story.
There's a lot of different directions you could take the core concept to refine it. A great example of a "Highlander Evolved" story is the movie "The Old Guard" (haven't read the comic). The fight choreography really sells that, as one character says, they've "forgotten more about killing than entire armies will ever learn." It's one of the things that has me optimistic for the remake, taking the morass of Highlander lore and developing and evolving it into something more coherent and engaging.
Just confirm that Zeist doesn't exist.
@@erikbjelke4411 Yeah, the novelisation is really just a plus. The screenplay notes are more official, you can still find elements in the movie. There are 4 scenes that still have the psychic element in the movie: the police station, the beach, the zoo, and the end where he explains The Prize to Brenda. The script had a scene where Connor was experiencing different people's lives all over the world, too. A lover's quarrel in Paris, somebody typing the PIN number into an ATM somewhere else, a coup being planned in South America, etc.
The notes are typed and written up in plain English, too. There's a part where they translate what Ramirez says about The Prize in modern day grammar as to explain it even more simply.
Just like they explain the origin: "They're not aliens or angels. They are a part of nature."
I did a whole watch-a-long years ago. Every time I sit down and edit it something bad happens and I lose all the data. I gave up after 3 times. Lol The original is still up, though
There is literally a "hand-waving' scene in the first movie between Ramirez and Connor. In a few lines he states what we know and what we do not know. Other than the later scene mentioning holy ground and tradition (that never made sense to me, it was probably added in post to make sense of the confrontation in the church scene later in the film) not much is explained and little needed to be. The mystery of these immortals gave the story a more mythic feel.
"There's no silver medal for coming in second". Did you deliberately quote Connery in Last Crusade? Or was that an accident?
Best explanation for *why* the immortals are the way they are: Genetic anomaly. Simple.
a creator (writer, director, etc...) has the right to go with his story whichever way he thinks is right (especially if he was the one who started it and didn't take over for someone else)
but yeah, he can't blame the audience and fans for not liking the direction the story goes.
so anyway... "Aliens" (insert meme of the 'It was Aliens" guy)
Jus a little bit ago “Overly Sarcastic “ released a video about “The Noodle Incident “ explaining how sometimes it is better to not know what is going on.
Speaking for myself, when I was younger and my critical thinking skills were not quite so developed (much to my chagrin) I would want answers to questions that are posed in films, such as the nature of the Space Jockey in Alien, or Wolverine's origins, and wtf is the Quickening. As I grew older and my thinking skills had expanded, the less important having those answers spelled out for me became, as what my mind came up with was far more satisfying, especially when discussing them with friends who had their own speculation. A lot of Modern writers today have ruined that with their OBSESSION with infusing their own idiocy when answering those questions, and then having the nerve to create more questions based on that arrogant stupidity thinking they're being thought provoking. (I'm looking at you Promethius)
Audiences are just as much at fault, if not moreso. Just look at the damage that other RUclips critics have done.
So often the case, if something isn't explicitly explained on screen, it's considered a plot hole.
Just look at the reactions to the Sequel Trilogy to name but one example. Both sides are to blame.
Toledo Salamanca would be like calling a sword a Miami Chicago. It's just the names of two cities.
I think audiences like guessing and theorizing, and it's unsatisfying to have that taken away from them.
"I think audiences like guessing and theorizing, and it's unsatisfying to have that taken away from them."
Wow, the condescension is palpable. Audiences aren't as stupid as you seem to think. It is indeed "unsatisfying" when the answer doesn't fit the source material. The sequel is an utterly nonsensical (and boring) movie which completely ignores all themes of the original movie -- a mystic lifeforce that connects the Immortals, the implication that a price has to paid for their gift and the fate of the world depends on which Immortal proves stronger in the end -- and replaces it with SPACE ALIENS!
(Not to mention that the scriptwriters of HL2 then had to invent desperate add-on explanations why these space aliens characters had been born and grown up on Earth, in different cultures and centuries no less, conveiently without remembering their home planet, or why they looked exactly the same etc etc.)
If we were to take _Highlander 2_ as canon, it would ruin the original movie in the process. Hence why the _Highlander_ TV series and even the later _Highlander_ movies (as bad as some of those were) ignore the existence of HL2.
It's as if one author writers two acts of a Miss Marple murder mystery, with carefully placed clues... only for a second author to come in and write a third act where he disregard all logical answers on who the murderer is and instead goes, "The characters suddenly get beamed back to their secret home planet of Planet X because the had forgotten that they were space slugs cosplaying as Miss Marple. How they know about Miss Marple? I dunno, telepathy or something?"
@@TF2CrunchyFrog I want to see your version of Miss Marple so badly!
It is CERTAINLY not true that the audience always knows what they want.
But some of us know what we like or what'll resonate best. That's just the way it is.
By the way, that whole thing about the sword being folded 200 times? That's dramatic overkill. Folding steel in Japanese swordsmithing is basically to help homogenize the bloomery steel (tamahagane) and expose impurities to the air to be burned off. It's typically done between 10 and 20 times, and each time doubles the layers of steel. By about the 30th fold, you've homogenized the steel at the molecular level. And you've also burned off all the carbon that makes the steel durable.
The thing is, master Japanese bladesmiths understand the steel, and would work it to the ideal point, and no further. I can only presume that the writers had no idea about swordsmithing at all.
For more information, I'll point you to Ilya Alekseyev of the channel That Works. He's got a couple of videos there in which he makes Japanese-style blades. He was trained in Japanese smithing.
It is a little weird that Ramirez says that no one knows why the immortals are the way they are and yet someone at some point had to explain to HIM the rules of the game and why it was deemed so necessary for it to be carried out.
Young Connor: Yes, First Battle. LET'S GO!
Young Connor: Dude, wtf? Why is everyone avoiding me. Worst Battle Ever
Enter Kurgan
Young Connor: Hehe, I'M IN DANGER!
Perhaps the most redeeming aspect of this was the new songs by Queen, "Who Wants To Live Forever" was the best.
Sean O'Connor
1 in every 5000 men is carrying a really long assed sword in his underwear.
11:03 & 11:12
Why’d you repeat yourself repeat yourself?
The Series was So much better than the movies...
but then again, after the first film, that's not really much of an achievement.
I disagree with the last statement. I'd argue that the audience almost NEVER knows what they want as every time they get what they want, they say "this isn't what we wanted."
See: any reaction to anything they label "woke".
The critic may remember it so the audience doesn't have to, but the experience is subjective, and the audience that likes having the story living in their head doesn't remember the same things as the critic. The critic is the one everybody hears, but the _audience is not the critic._
@@boobah5643 Is the first sentence a Nostalgia Critic reference?
Scottish pubs are waaaaaay more dangerous...
I have to disagree with the comment at the end, I do t think it’s arrogance, I think it’s true that sometimes an audience doesn’t know what they want. Trope Talks just did a video on this. The audience might think “man I want to know more about this mysterious character or event”, the author tries to give them what they want, and gets backlash because the actual reveal could never live up to what was in their head.
Bullcrap. The audience knew exactly what they wanted: An answer that was in line with the themes in the _Highlander_ movie. Namely, that the Immortal are in contact with an ancient mystic lifeforce that grants them eternal life and regeneration. Something like the Force in Star Wars, or the Speedforce for The Flash.
Then the scriptwriters of _Highlander 2_ said, "You know what this Fantasy franchise full of flashbacks to historical times needs? SPACE ALIENS ON HOVERBIKES! Who conveniently look exactly like humans, even on their own planet. But wait, how do we explain the established fact from the first movie that the Immortals were _born_ and grew up on Earth in various cultures and centuries, and don't remember they're from Space? Oh, let's just handwave it away by saying they were exiled because of, uh, nevermind that now... and their spirits were transfered into human babies... who then grew up to look exactly like them because... reasons? And they conveniently happened to die and "activate" their immortality at the exact age they looked like when they were exiled from their home planet."
Not only did _Highlander 2_ utterly butcher the original, it was in itself a breathtakingly stupid nonsensical movie.
A writer who blames the audience when the audience points out the crap is not only hack, but a self-absorbed arrogant hack.
But sure, you keep parroting the talking points about poor widdle victimized "authors" who bravely wanted to give an ungrateful audience a brilliant story but those stupid viewers were too stupid to recognize the hidden genius of the author's hackneyed plot!
Give me a break.🙄
@@TF2CrunchyFrog Agreed. It's not that there was an explanation but that it makes no sense on any level. There are things I buy that others don't. The idea that there turns out to be a non-headlosing way to transfer the Quickening in the Animated Series I can totally handle, for example. A group of humans who learn about the immortals and work to see the match end in a draw so nobody gets the "prize" and potentially threatens humanity like the live-action series I'm totally down for. Planet Of Space Immortals and whatever that cosmic alignment was supposed to be in the later movies doesn't jibe with established lore and breaks the worldbuilding.
@@TF2CrunchyFrogNo need to be a condescending asshole about it. (Ironically I saw another thread where someone said audiences sometimes like a mystery and you accused *them* of being condescending). I haven’t seen the sequel, from the outlandish changes you describe maybe he *was* arrogant. I was just saying I think I’m general he was right about audiences sometimes not knowing what they want. (Though you’re right that I don’t think any of them wanted aliens).
I’ve never seen the sequel, so maybe you’re right and the director was arrogant to think audiences would just go along with adding aliens to a fantasy story. But in a vacuum I think it’s true that sometimes audiences don’t know what they want and don’t realize it would be a better story if certain things they want explained were left a mystery
I think maybe it's more that different audience members want different things. No explanation is going to satisfy every viewer, as viewers have varied ideas of what a satisfying explanation would be. Keeping things mysterious and unexplained thus gives it a broader appeal, as everyone can imagine that the truth behind the mystery is something that would appeal to them, personally.
Dont insult my intelligence! I know who Errol Flynn is!
"Audience didn't like my epically terrible answer? I guess they don't really know what they want!"