Why Proprietary Software Sucks on Linux ...
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
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Chapters:
00:00 - Davinci Resolve and Fedora 38
01:27 - Proprietary software and packaging formats
03:06 - Why do Software Vendors do this?
03:37 - Things I don't understand ...
04:50 - Why proprietary software is not bad
05:18 - Conclusion
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Description Tags:
davinci resolve fedora 38, fedora 38 davinci resolve, davinci resolve fedora, install davinci resolve on linux, proprietary software vs open source, microsoft office 2016 on linux, microsoft office 2019 on linux, open source, free software, davinci resolve amd gpu linux, michael horn
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#fedora38 #opensource #davinciresolve
Steam is kinda funny because Steam Deck ships with Flathub
it's sad :O
Steam client being proprietary is even "more funny"
The steam client is on flathub though, that's what I use
@@marienidodo4043 I think its put by the community
I completely agree. Releasing in a traditional package format not only limits which distributions can run a piece of software, but it fails to recognize how far we have come in the Linux community and that there are now several formats to choose from that will allow you to run on any distribution.
While I am an advocate for flatpak and appimage for desktop applications, I recognize that snaps have their place for servers and IoT devices. They can all co-exist.
Hopefully, BlackMagic (and others) will see the light and recognize that you can package proprietary software for Linux using a universal package format, maximizing the audience in the Linux community, and still allowing the company to make money if they desire.
The funniest part is they could do this for free! They could make there software open source and tell everyone they are able to fix, maintain and get it working for linux. It's 0$ and makes them look better so why not? If I was the CEO that's what I do!
@@Timely7 あっぷ
Bullshit. Skill issue. Use alien. It helps repackage things for other distributions.
this is the perfect use case for Flatpak
I read somewhere a few years back that the BBC studios in England depended almost exclusively on red hat machines running davinci, at least for a few shows. Might have something to do with it
You are pointing out one of the biggest headaches in Linux desktop: packaging. This is not an issue with software, in the linux world packaging is all over the place. It seems everybody wants to have a package manager, which basically forces developers to package for individual distributions. That works well for open-sourced software where the distribution maintainers take that job, for all the other use cases companies must choose which distribution support. There is no right way to deliver to Linux! there is "X distro way" Oh flatpacks...what about snaps? or all the other options they think they can do better in the future. That is the downside of being open and don't standarized
It doesn't really work that much with open source software, since distros often display broken builds of the programs, and outdated builds for fixed release distributions, especially stable (LTS) ones, maintaining the packages also requires a lot of manpower and resources that could be spent on better things like improving the operating systems themselves. Neither Google, nor Apple, nor Microsoft maintain as many things as the maintainers of traditional Linux distros, and this is a serious issue considering that those behind many of the distros have much less resources and means than the big techs.
This is not a issue exclusive to Linux distros tho,, it also occurs with other more minority open source operating systems such as FreeBSD, although in this case it is understandable because the lack of third-party software officially offered by developers is minimal, and that FreeBSD has a centralized development different from Linux, so you can target FreeBSD in the same way that you target macOS and Windows, and despite all its shortcomings, one important thing to note is that FreeBSD being an LTS OS offers up-to-date application packages and I think there is a clear separation between the operating system and the software packages. unfortunately nobody uses it, and the few companies that use it do so to parasitize that OS most of the time.
Flathub isnt even a problem anymore, you can sell paid versions of software on it now.
Tbh, I just wish Davinci would take their freemium core code and put it under MIT. Then they can keep Pro closed for payment and reap contributions like Moonray is doing.
100% agree with this. Just tried Resolve on Fedora 38 and what a nightmare. I livestreamed the entire setup and finally just said forget it... I'll switch distros to something Resolve likes lol.
Proxmox, here I come 😅
Davinci Resolve is the only reason I still dual boot windows. Rest all the software I use are open source and perfectly supported on Linux.
I'd argue that flatpak will be the best option for this, and if they are worried about licensing, jetbrains and others have been a thing for the better half of a decade
Mostly agree.
Context: Cut an entire feature length on DaVinci Resolve on Ubuntu Studio and popOS. The process on my machine - XPS 9750, i7 8th gen, 1050TI, 32 GB RAM - was almost painless, and drama free. I was even sharing files with my color gradist who was on a Windows machine and we had zero issues.
I am in two minds.
On one hand, I am very thankful to Blackmagic for having done this - it made transitioning into Linux even more of an inevitability for me since there is nothing hold me back to Windows otherwise.
On the other, I completely agree universal packaging format might be the way to go. I think a possible route is for them to release a compatability tool on their website - a script that gathers system config details - hardware and software - and in the case of the latter, takes notes of software libraries that are needed for the installation to go ahead. It then gives the user a list of missing dependencies and where/how to install it.
Once dependencies are installed, run the tool again and it gives you the link to download DaVinci Resolve as an appimage. Right now, being restricted to Deb and RHEL systems, I feel, BlackMagic is losing out on a potentially large-ish market of content creators who primarily use Linux.
I hate redhat. When a program is compatible with it, it is only compatible with a specific version of it, most of the time, redhat 7 and it is really old
1:11 "Resolve" this issue, if you will.
That's why i went back to Windows. I need PS, Illustrator, DaVinci and Outlook. Marketshare of Linux is too low. It's to much work for them to make it available as deb, rpm every 6 to 12 month for new linux versions. Don't misunderstand me, i really love Linux. Still running Fedora on dualboot with Windows 11 but only for private use.
I can understand your frustrations, but the reason for it is actually very simple. These big companies releasing proprietary software are often targeting their main profit audience - large studios and film production companies, and they already have a well laid out pipeline which just works mostly without any issues that you describe, except, perhaps the Autodesk software being crashy big bloat (looking at you, Maya).
Such studios often use what they deem to be the most reliable option, even if that software is old, and in the Linux realm it's mostly RHEL/CentOS, and most studio software is built for that distribution, because it does not update that often, has stable and predictable package base to build software on, and each of its releases is supported for a very long time.
So no wonder that you have such issues with Fedora, which likes to alter their package base every 6 months))).
Thing is: This is they way you publish software on Windows, and they just replicate the method on Linux.
Then the problem is: Linux distros are very hostile to this approach. As you said, a Fedora update breaks Davinci because they removed some libs. On Windows that would never happen, and then Blackmagic assumed that this should apply to Linux as well (note that I'm saying Linux, not the distro. That's intentional). Windows would keep legacy libs for decades and Fedora just removes the old versions each release.
I find Linux' approach way more attractice, and nowadays even Microsoft is increasingly pushing apps in their store.
It's just nicer to have a cultivated ecosystem
@@MichaelNROH Yeah, but the problematic part is removing libs every major release. I mean... Recent games like persona were using libs that were discontinued in Windows Vista, but it worked because Windows keep those things.
Fedora would remove those the second they were deprecated
Although it doesn't always work, this is ONE thing i do like about recent versions of windows. They have a compatibility mode that you can use to launch programs as if there were running on older versions of windows.
But definitely, more companies ahould be using flatpaks. I hope we start seeing this shift soon.
I am going to attract a lot of hate here, but I would reframe the question as, "why Linux sucks with proprietary software?". The answer is because after 25 years the community still haven't agreed on the basics: copy and paste, sound subsystem, graphics subsystem, init subsystem, and the list goes on.
The problem with bundling all the dependencies is that you never know what kind of dependencies you need. Say you have your elf which depends on x and y. Then x depends on xx, xy, xz and y on yx, yy, yt. xx on xxx, xxy, xxz and so on. The is has become a huuuge mess, which from my experience flatpak has solved best. Also btw Ive read somewhere that flathub is preparing for commercialisation where people can place their apps with a price. That's a step to attract propriatery devs
I feel you there. I have a similar situation with Arch as my main computer, but use web-authoring program Blue Griffon to maintain a personal website.
No other distro quite accomodates the way I want to use my main PC like Arch does. Even though I first discovered Blue Griffon in a list of AUR packages, it by that point already looked shaky if installed that way. An Arch package made from the vendor's .deb package with debtap failed to install. When purchased, Blue Griffon supports no distro other than Ubuntu, whether it could be installed on other Debian-based or not.
Not two machines, but the solution I eventually came up with was to install an extra SSD in my tower and install Ubuntu on that drive, with its bootloader on the same SSD, not the Arch one. Then I set the boot priority in my UEFI setup to boot Arch by default.
Other than the anonymous 1Tb volume showing up on my file browser sidebar, there's no indication in normal use that there even is a separate system. But if I need to use my one proprietary program, I can shut down my computer and use the F-key during startup for a boot menu to boot Ubuntu that time. Same as if to boot a flash drive.
Best kludge I could come up with for that.
What I was told and found quite helpful for Linux setups was Distrobox.
I originally wanted to use Davinci Resolve, as on a supported operating system, which would have meant a VM with a dedicated GPU.
However, using Distrobox was for this case much more efficient since it is essentially a container with it's own operating system. You can install all the native dependencies in there, and if something is missing then it falls back to your main OS. Works really well that way for a few applications. I guess you could try installing Ubuntu with it.
@@MichaelNROH So this issue have not being fixed on Fedora 38? I want to change Distros and I need DaVinci Resolve.
This isn't even only an issue with proprietary software. Packaged versions of Blender in multiple distros don't work with AMD GPUs but the web download does. Sometimes AMD HIP is completely missing as an option, other times its there but doesn't see any devices. Obviously after doing requisite work of getting opencl/rocm installed and groups done. Only the web versions have worked consistently after that.
I would like to say that I use Davinci and just upgraded from Ubuntu 22.10 to 23.04 and I don't have any issues. It was the first program I tried after install because I did not expect it to work but I was happy to see it go smoothly. I would also like to point out that I have had appimages not open because they are missing dependancies too. So yea they're that.
His main issue is he uses AMD radion gpu I installed on newest fedora with nvidia and one I installed all dependencies it works fine.
I have been using resolve on linux for years and have never had any issues. I have used POP and currently I run MATE. I think maybe your problem is with Fedora? Too bad, it is the most important software on my computer. It's all I use it for. Maybe just switch to an Ubuntu derivative. But I don't use my computer for anything else so I don't really know what the advantage of running red hat might be.
I remember that I had TONS of issues with Unity when switching to Linux at first time, and also with Nvidia obviously, but something that really made me leave Unity at all was: it didn't work at all with newer Linux kernels, so I told them that there was a bug that prevented Linux users from using their program, and they basically answered me "sorry, but we don't officially support Debian, switch to Ubuntu instead because we hate you"
Fortunately, they solved the issue... 6 months later because Canonical released a new Ubuntu version and Unity didn't work there too, obviously.
I don't blame so much about using proprietary software, but in some cases it's frustrating that you can't actually do anything if you have an actual issue, and their support teams are useless as hell.
I agree. Relying on someone else is not good, especially when you really cannot do anything about it.
Its not Proprietary Software that sucks. Its Linux that sucks 😂
In defense of Black Magic, Resolve is not really "meant" for web content. There are features that are geared for things like Instagram and RUclips, but they're cursory features like aspect ratio and render presets, it's not the focus. It's actually extreme overkill for web content. The Linux ecosystem is just starved for a decent video editor and this is all we have right now.
You're in a particularly tight spot because your channel is about the cutting edge of Linux. It's totally understandable that you'd be frustrated by this. Unfortunately, web content creators are just not who they make their products for.
It's primarily meant for color grading and VFX composition, for professionals that are using mission critical machines, not cutting edge operating systems. DaVinci Resolve is usually the only reason you boot up that machine. That's why they don't support cutting edge distributions, it's a lot more work to keep up-to-date, it's less stable, and not that much more money being made.
I agree with you that it would be a WHOLE lot simpler for average users to package the free version as a Flatpak or appimage. That would make it easier for someone on Linux to learn VFX, expanding the overall talent pool and making everyone happier, but it also means that less time is being spent improving the product for their target users.
Of course I wouldn't be opposed to what you're suggesting, I just don't really fault Black Magic on this one.
If I were you, I would use a separate, dedicated system running Rocky Linux for Resolve. It's not ideal, I know, but you'll be a whole lot less frustrated with it.
I wish that the Olive video editor was further along by now. A good FOSS editor would be exempt from the things that create this exact problem.
Video editing programs are almost never cut toward Web or Content Creators, and those who are mainly focus on very specific things, like cutting clips, making TikToks, etc.
Part of the reason why these programs are that good is, because they are built for bigger productions.
I'm probably going to outsource Davinci Resolve to a VM anyway one day. Not necessarily because of hassles, because up until now they have been "quite easy" to fix if you know what you are doing, but that's not who this video is for. I see an easier way for me to edit right of a bigger storage system with a scalable performance boost which doesn't affect my main system.
@@MichaelNROH 100% and that's what I believe MattKC is trying to fix with Olive. I just hope they can get some more momentum going. Like I said, we're in desperate need of a FOSS production-ready non-linear editor.
Have you tried Olive yet? Might be a good alternative!
Some stuff is better on something like flatpak some other stuff is better on native package. Resolve is better on anything then the current format.
Pretty much on point
> chooses rolling release distro
> surprised that this unstable target has unstable third party apps
Same goes with Pixar Renderman (3D render engine). It uses old Centos 7 libraries and for newer distributions you need to build those libraries yourself or find a proper safe copy online and install manually in few folders of Renderman's installation. This is just cumbersome.
Proprietary software is fine on Linux and any open source OS.
Some "industry standards", "productive" software don't work on Linux because they developers have written OS-specific code and don't care to port their software. It also wouldn't come as a surprise if they are paid to NOT port their software.
as someone who needs Unity for work i completely understand your pain
Hey Micheal, we use Engineering software and these apps use the windows way of installing softwares on Linux. You can even put the installation paths, so they don't leverage the central dependency. These softwares are MATLAB, ANSYS, Unreal, pycharm. they don't prefer the package manager to dsitribute the software.
resolve should just release a flatpak
2:50 I hope they can consider after Flathub gets all those payments stuff sorted for the first time on Linux repo history, maybe.
This is why I dualboot, Somethings do not work on Linux but there is hit or miss.
Scrivener and my novel notes does not work on Fedora 37. But Wonderdraft does? (And it is not Linux focused, but it is slow.)
I also have a legacy program which I want to build my own foss copycat of called Campfire. It is just a fancy notes tool for writers, but that doesnt work on Linux (To be fair, it also depreciated and barely works on Windows in a sense until something breaks.)
FL Studio actually works…pretty well! I am surprised. But not Native Access. So because of that, I am stuck with Windows.
And now…Davinci Resolve. Well, for me it actually works (sorry Micheal) but I noticed alot of the GPU features for nodes, frankly suck. And for CPUs, I seem to be slower then on Windows. But it works.
Well, I am on 37 not 38. I am not updating for a while and I might even not update till 39. Not because of any particularly convincing reasons, I just want to backup my drive and I will be lazy doing that since it is encrypted AND I am learning programming anyway so I can maybe stay a bit behind a version or two.
Honestly? Thank god for Krita and Gimp. Out of all the artistic stuff I do from writing to music to learning art and coding, I am glad both just work, maybe even faster then on Windows! VS Codium works also well on both my boots, and I think If I switch to Neovim for example just as a hypothetical, I expect it to work better on Linux then Windows.
I'm cofused with the Maya package because i read online that they only ship RPM so i switched from Ubuntu to Fedora just to use it. Now that I download it, there's no RPM, just an executable that runs on the terminal. They even have an official guide to change the RPM setup to DEB but, again, THERE WAS NO RPM 😬
If you are going to ship dependencies ship all ; if not give a readme for all deps needed
Ages ago micro-softie declared Gnu-Linux "a threat." Other developers followed along, and none changed their behavior. If you can port to apple, porting to Gnu-Linux is trivial. Certain applications I would pay for, but I got tired of waiting. I just use what's in the repository.
well at least it's on linux unlike adobe.
I have a problem with davinci fron fedora 35
When i move to fedora
Davinci didn't open currently some part of davinci move out on monitor and i dant see
And i cant drag windo so i can't use Davinci
And also kdenlive it has same problem
My monitor is 16inch 😐
Yes, media editing software is a nightmare. I guess virtual machines / proton is the way to handle them. Adobe and Davinci are made it for centrally managed, single-point-of-control hollywood studios, so the kind of free file sharing that you can do between open source tools is dangerous to their monopolies.
Luv ur videos. Pls make one on ur editing workflow ( recording + video + audio )
ruclips.net/video/dyQi-BaOt3Y/видео.html
How about Nobara Project? I heard they offering pre-installed dependecies for Davinci Resolve itself.
I've said it in a video once. Nobara is a great distro for gamers or people who use their PC more or less non-productive.
While Nobara is a masterpiece which fixes a lot of issues, I'd still rather have official releases.
GloriousEggroll makes awesome stuff, but I'm not the target group here.
I also wondered why it has no flatpak. I mean, installing it from AUR was easy, but the compilation took an hour or so. Considering that the popularity of Ubuntu is declining, why focus only on Ubuntu?
And Ubuntu is not even officially supported. To my knowledge, their bases are Red Hat and CentOS, while also offering a Rocky OS ISO.
@@MichaelNROH they has upgrade davinci to support rocky/alma other than centos 7?
Hi, I use Linux Manjaro in a dual boot with Windows 10, because I still need some programs which wouldn't run property under Linux, they are only available for Windows and MacOS. I know I'm off topic, it's a different kind of problem, but since I have my fair share of distro hopping under my belt, I can say, even programs like Wine, Winetricks and Bottles are behaving differently depending on the distro they running on.
The range of success of getting a program to work goes from not at all to sometimes.
Linux itself is also guilty of that behavior. A few years ago, I could install my printer in three click's. Today's Manjaro can't do it no matter what. I have to use Cups to install the same old Printer. Why? I don't understand.
AUR has Davinci Resolve and it works! Although flatpak is also a nice idea!
As I said in other comment, I think that if you give a try to some propietary software and it the only thing it gives is headaches, then you shouldn't stick with it and instead should search an alternative.
I tried to use Unity Engine on Linux, at first it was more or less ok, but then they put the stupid Unity Hub and things started to not work and shit like that.
Same for Davinci Resolve.
After trying to make it work, I find out later that in order to use it, I have to first convert the videos to the codec they allow you to use, which adds an unnecessary extra step.
I mean, sometimes you should ask yourself "do I really need to use this program?" The level of video editing I had was basic, so even if resolve is veeeery advanced and cool, I would probably not use half of it's tools.
Kdenlive has just enough tools for what I do, and even more if I ever want to try something more advanced. It doesn't have the stupid codec limitation, it's easy to use and is in almost every distro, not requiring a download from a website.
I mean, it would be pretty cool if companies started to distribute their software on Linux the right way, but what I think it's happening it's that they don't care about the Linux user at all.
I'm not saying this is what happens, but it's what I theorise: "If the Linux user won't even pay for their OS, are we expecting them to pay for our software?" I'm sure this doesn't apply to everyone, but I actually do fit in that sentence, if I can find a good enough OpenSource alternative to a propietary software, than I'll ditch that software right away.
Also, Kdenlive, Godot, Blender and more are getting better and better. And people is using them more and more, which will in turn make those programs better faster. I think there is no need for propietary software if they are alternatives.
But, if the software in question doesn't have an alternative, then there is no other way, we have to just endure it. Or make an alternative ourselves
Hello Michael! Thanks for the video, i'm following you for a while now,and your contents are intresting and well made: we can feel you enjoy what you doing. My only question is one (because it's well known DaVinci tends to fight with the penguin in different ways): why you use DaVinci resolve (that's literally the most professional and advanced tool for filmmaking) if in your videos (they are cool don't get me wrong) you do a basic editing with some transition,titles (i though the semplicity is the way to go), and maybe some color correction and nothing else? As you know you can do it with others open source non-linear editors and avoid some many headaches and do the same job in half time? At the end i don't think you need it: too much power for basic editing, is it worth it? Much love for you and for your job. Keep going 👊
I'm guessing he needs GPU acceleration. I'm not at all familiar with video editing but I'm guessing Resolve is the only one that properly handles GPU acceleration
@@pialdas6835 Could be a reson maybe Pial, i agree. Other than that i can't see any other reason,but maybe i'm wrong
That's not true actually.
I need Resolve mainly because of Fusion it's node-based rendering engine. There are also some generic templates I use, which I would need to substitute and the general usability of Resolve is superior to others
@@MichaelNROH Gotcha. thanks, i was simply curious. The fact Resolve is superior to others is a fact
Davinchi resolve doesn’t need to make a pro version of the program. Just make the program, then make users sign in if they want to access pro features.
That sounds even worse
That's not a good solution, since for once it would cause a bigger download and installation size, but also make it way easier to bypass authentication.
Why would you need blender if your using kdenlive? I haven't seen any cut in this video that would demand it.
You would be surprised how many videos use techniques that I couldn't replicate in Kdenlive.
I've tried switching three times but always had to move back mid cut
You know he has more than one video, right? Some animations, transitions and other stuff requires a third party software to create those things. I've used premiere and it's quite easy to just download a bunch of stuff that works well with the tool and KDENLIVE has 0 support for something as easy as quick intros, effects and other things for more complex editing.
Blender also includes a compositor. Plus you can, you know, use videos as textures in a 3D scene.
i use the kinoite version of fedora because the file system is read only some software will not install/work properly
I have to give valve their praise here, because their app is available on basically everything (included snap and flatpak) , we only need an appimage steam and the circle will be completed xd
I'm sorry. Saw your video once but can't see it when watch it again: you performed some terminal command to repair-fix broken dependencies (when you successfully upgraded from one major fedora version to the next major fedora version)?...
Can you please write it here? :)
I didn't actually fix anything besides Resolve. This one's in the description btw.
The other commands are a showcase that 3rd party packages like mesa-freeworld didn't cause any issues.
@@MichaelNROH oh year, sorry then
Hate to be that guy (ok, not really, but I'm not a fanboy either) but this kind of stuff rarely happens in Windows. I guess mainly because Windows editions, the big ones, are much rarer. And usually what works in version X works in version X+1 too, and only in X+2 it might not work anymore.
With the Nix package manager (used in Guix and NixOS, if I remember correctly), you can have multiple/all the versions of whatever libraries you need, so you can also have whatever version of an executable, also not have a conflict with another executable which requires the same library, but with a different version. How is this not the norm is baffling to me. Or maybe there's something I don't understand, to be fair I haven't dwelved too deep in this... yet.
Windows has standardized libraries which mostly haven't changed since Windows 8. Standardization allows for very easy development, since even if something were to break, you can often rely on compatibility modes.
Windows 7 software does mostly still run on Windows 10 for example
aand this is just a tiny fragment of the huge pile of reasons I use windows for desktop and leave linux to network stuff...unless theres a GOOD open source alternative, it is garbage
Nobody? Okay, I'll sacrifice myself!
Well, in your case, it's Davinci UNresolve(d)
👉🚪
This right here is one of the main reasons Linux can't compete with MacOS. The only real option on Linux for video editing is kdenlive and it sucks! Davinci has always only worked on a very small percentage of computers and only if you could trick it into working on those.
There is away around problems with dependencies is to put out a Docker image and keep it up to date. I no longer install programs in Linux if there is no Docker image i don't use that companies software Docker is the way to go.
Seems more like a niche "you" problem. If, like you say, you "NEED" it then simply invest in a dedicated solution, or switch, no other way around it sadly. If it's mission critical, and you rely on it for your livelihood, you just have to get a dedicated solution that works best for you. Mini PCs are cheap, available and powerful enough to run Resolve, consume low power, take up a small space and are relatively cheap for the performance they offer. Ideally we would not have to deal with stupid stuff like this but with how fragmented Linux is and with developers' financial interests there's no way around it sadly.
Bruh... Yea blame the user
@@FakeMichau I'm not blaming the user. If he ABSOLUTELY needs and relies on Resolve (or whatever else) for his job/livelihood, he needs to make sure that he has the best option for it. Sadly no way around it. Software is fragmented, it has been this way for ever, no matter how many videos youtubers make complaining about it. I do my job on a dedicated PC, I don't like it, but it streamlined everything I do and generally don't have to worry about something braking like in his case.
The point of the video was not to showcase critical applications. Yes, I depend on Resolve, but the upgrade was planned with backup solutions ready. It didn't affect the pacing at all.
The point is, that proprietary software is often stupidly hard to install, while there are obvious better solutions out there.
davinci doesn't work for me. it says I have no GPU.
I have a ryzen5 with integrated GPU. Windows sees my GPU but linux doesn't
I installed generic radeon drivers and now davinci starts but doesn't visualize anything. not even still images like tiff or titles created by davinci itself.
Actually I don't really know if it's linux that doesn't see my GPU or just davinci
That's because it needs OpenCL and the Mesa version is not sufficient or runs it at all.
What you need is rocm-opencl, which comes from the proprietary driver.
Fedora has this as a native standalone package in their repo for example.
Have you tried Lightworks??? I love it and they provide rmp and Deb packages. I never had any issues with it!
I tried 2 Linux distros more than 10 years ago (Ubuntu - Fedora) and I say sadly the programs I use in windows do not run easily on Linux (Autodesk MAYA - DaVinci Resolve)
Hello great video, I wish that I could use Linux for everything and that is where my frustration comes in Linux already has a better file system and a healthy mixture of Distributions, I wish they would just settle on a package manager and standardize that way I can edit videos, and play games from now on within Linux!
Because unfortunately, standardisation comes with sacrificing good alternatives that are so much more useful depending on the situation
Feel free to offer a suitable standard.
I think it can go both ways, if especially proprietary vendors would participate more in active development.
Wine or Proton is ever evolving, but still has a more or less solid foundation due to Windows.
It's all about communication really + it doesn't need to affect all distros. There is a difference between open source and being an open operating system.
0:17 Really? I'm still struggling to update to 38 because of mesa-freeworld, but it'll try again
It gets removed automatically after the initial error-warning. Just restart the process.
I'm not sure if freeworld got updated yet though.
AUR there are packages for Mega Sync and Davici Resolve, first run, but have some strange bug that I can't find any info about on web,
and scecond don't run at all for me so somtimes even right packaing isn't a solcution - I tried also Mega Sync flatpak version, bu t crashes in few seconds after launching it.
But also on my distro I coudn't run LibreOffice from offical arch repos stable or fresh, so I installed flatpak version and it works.
So times I think maybe I should go back to Linux Mint, but AUR repos having all software is hipotazing for me ;)
a fedora update removed my wifi drivers. thankfully intel has the driver and it's very easy to install, but I shouldn't have to do that because an update removed it.
fragmentation on linux is a massive issue and i think people and developers understimate that.
it compromisse users freedom.
sure you are free to chose between gnome, kde, xfce etc, but you end up with an poor experience in all of then as result.
for example, once i customized my gnome2 enviroment, then i opened an program and... it didnt respected my theme at all!
why? because it was made with QT instead of GTK...
i figured out how to customize the theme of QT programs on gnome, so i opened another... and it was using another completely different framework!
hell, back in the days we didnt had "dark mode", so trying to customize the theme was an pain, you open a single window that didnt respect your preference and your eyes hurt!
what is the point of having customization if you cant use it?
i gone so far to customize even the sites i visit with stylish, my browser end up using too much ram, but at least that was not an issue related to linux itself... anyway, moving on.
i changed my mind and decided to use an light theme since dark was not working...
and guess what, reverting to the default theme didnt fix the colors of all elements, so i ended up with an light text in a light background...
the worst part? i was an newbie so i didnt knew how to fix this issue, i tried to reinstall the system and end up losing my files! (and most programs to recover data assume you use windows )
continuing my strugle, i tried to use xfce to have an lightweight enviroment, i openened an program that didnt supported this DE, and as result? i ended up using more ram instead of less, because now i had QT libraries and XFCE libraries opened using ram!
and if i remember correctly the same happened once i opened an program that didnt had an fallback in case you didnt use gnome...
i saw some videos showing how cool compiz was, but none of then told me how easy it was to break your GUI using it, i tried to make my own compiz video and my screen recording software didnt worked for god knows what reason.
video editors were a mess back then, they still are, but at least we have davince... that only support a few distros and i cant complain, i can understand their strugle, i tried to develop for linux once, but had no idea how to deal with different package managers...
the issue is: maybe davince only works on redhat? fine, but what if i use redhat and need another proprietary program that only works on ubuntu too? then its game over, or i have to reboot between each step of the workflow...
i tried to code multiplatform softwares, but i strugled to configure the qtcreator tool to export for windows, and selling my software for linux only dont seem to be very profitable...i have bills to pay... i wasted literally 24 hours compiling the entire QT framework to make the qtcreator be able to compile for windows, only to figure out there were another solution for that... anyway, at least it worked right? WRONG.
and i end up with 10GB of used disk space, that i didnt know what to do with, i could delete it but then my system could not work anymore and i would take forever to know why, i could leave it there but... its 10GB... in any case i lost time for nothing.
i couldnt find an tutorial on how to fix this issue specifically made for my distro specifically made for the 14.04 version of it, hell i couldnt find it in english imagine if i only knew portuguese...
im trying to make an game, and that is the worse possible scenario, because you need just everything!
an image editor to make sprites/textures, an 3D modeling program in case the game or any of it assets are 3D (some times its easy to make then in 3D even for 2D games, donkey kong for snes is a good example), you also need an tool to make music and simulate every musical instrument, guitar, drum, piano, etc... or have real instruments, or simply outsource that part of the game...
you also need an program to code, one game engine to join all of those assets into one consistent experience...
nowadays i have godot and could try unity or unreal despite their treating linux as second class citizen, but i wasted years making my own engine because i couldnt find an descent one until i found godot and realised i was wasting my time making an engine that couldnt never compete with godot, while i should have spend such time making an game in godot... now i have nothing to sell with the time i wasted...
people told me "well if you cant find and good engine, just make one, all the big companies do their own" and the fool of me have listened to those fanboys that couldnt admit linux ecosystem was not perfect...
yeah, big companies made their own tools backthen, but they had millions to spend, i dont.
and nowadays even big companies are outsourcing this part of their development...
anyway, making an game is hard enough without making my own tools for that, its harder when you dont have an proper tool to animate in 2D (eg: flash) fortunatelly godot solves that, but even if im able to make an game, i still need to promote it, and making videos in linux is... well, a hell...
then finally i need an webpage to promote my game... and all editors i tried on linux suck, yes, even for that!
either they dont have an WYSIWYG tool, or it only support html4, in other works its an abandonware that was not updated in an entire decade!
so, its impossible? no, TailQuest Defense proves its possible.
the issue is: what im trying to do, trying to make an game or to use linux? because if im tring to make an game, windows would give me more options of tools to make music, assets, etc...
the issue is, i was not trying to just make an game, but to make it using linux, making an game is hard enough, dealing with an system that has tons of issues afore mentioned, and lacks an good ecosystem is even worse, so what i was really trying to do?
oh, yeah, i forgot that horror story when i tried to make an PWA before those where a thing, canonical was one of the first companies to have that idea, but they discontinued it... so i end up coding something for an niche... and the company who made the apis gave up on then... and then an web standard came to do the samething.
anyway, i think linux fragmentation is one of (if not the) biggest flaw it have, it leads to lack of support from thirdy parties, wich lead to lack of users wich lead to lack of improvments in all areas.
And then you have centralized open source operating systems like FreeBSD that don't have that issue of having hundreds and hundreds of distros and that not only doesn't mean more adoption, but quite the opposite, nobody uses it, nobody cares about it, and companies that use it is only for licensing reasons, and not to mention Haiku, which is monolithic just like Windows where you only have a SINGLE desktop environment and the user experience is very poor for the same reason, practically zero support on all fronts, besides that it is still a beta and although Haiku may not be comparable to Linux because it is a clone of an already dead proprietary OS, it still counts.
DE choices are the main hallmark of Linux and *NIX, if you take them away, what's the point of using them? To have a monolithic OS, there is already Windows, plus a monolithic GUI encourages planned obsolescence and also the lack of differentiation if we apply it to the *NIX world, or don't you remember the spectacular failure that Motif and CDE were, which were precisely an "attempt" to "standardize" the UNIX GUI and in practice ended up being rejected by both open source OSes and vendors who wanted to differentiate their products? The lack of differentiation IS an ingredient guaranteed to fail in fact, and this is the same thing that also happens to the ARM version of Windows, they could have looked and behaved the same, but they weren't the same, and sooner or later the user would have realized that, and they would have felt scammed and angry. of course, CDE and Motif were proprietary too, which was another major reason for their failure, but still. Apple never used CDE for macOS despite being a UNIX system, and for a very good reason.
Actually Linux is the only OS after the Windows-Mac duopoly that managed to reach 1% market share, the rest died miserably or were relegated to niches, and that many of those alternative OS were specifically aimed at the desktop, with the monolithic approach in GUI. As it is impossible for all programs to follow the system theme, some developers hardcode their themes so that they cannot be easily modified to preserve the look and feel of their programs, others use their own frameworks to not deal with the specific frameworks of each OS (and this is not just for Linux, but in general, hence why Electron apps have proliferated)
I agree that fragmentation compromises the freedom of the user, but not for these reasons, but because since there is no a standardized ground, any actor in bad faith can arrive to impose their monopoly, we already have the precedent of the web, a field in which exactly the same thing happened, and thanks to that Internet Explorer and Flash Player were able to monopolize everything without any kind of resistance.
Currently, with standards like HTML5, much of this unfortunate situation has been reversed, but the damage is still being felt, since the death of Flash put a lot of multimedia content in danger of disappearing, the solution was not to impose a single rendering engine or a single GUI for web browsers, but one body endorsed by all (the W3C) generates the standards for the web that we all use, that's what Linux really needs.
@@Sumire973 ok i was unfair, this is a double edge sword:
"DE choices are the main hallmark of Linux and *NIX, if you take them away, what's the point of using them?"
i agree that choices are important to grant user freedom, but here is the thing:
when it comes to 3D modeling, texturing, etc we just have ONE option that is blender...
Ok, maya support linux too, 2 options then.
isnt application choice more important than DE choice? after all we gonna spend most of our time using applications not the DE itself.
i dont leave firefox, blender and godot for doing much, most of my work is done inside programs not DE, changing DE dont improve my productivity, quite the opposite.
i dont think we need tons of DE to diferentiate distros.
we need something super customizable like KDE to make then look and feel different, but we also need sane "defaults".
"a monolithic GUI encourages planned obsolescence and also the lack of differentiation if we apply it to the *NIX world"
" ended up being rejected by both open source OSes and vendors who wanted to differentiate their products? "
isnt the whole point of Gnome 4, to break compatibility with Gnome 3 and force developers to use the new apis or stuff like that?
i heard things break on each new version of gnome, isnt that the reason?
if your only product is your DE, then the only new thing you can have is an brand new DE where everything have to restart from scratch.
what is the biggest advantage of linux for a end user? having tons of DE!
what is the biggest disadvantage? having almost 0 options of applications.
dont like blender Ui/Ux? though lucky, we dont have options here!
sure it isnt linux fault that thirdy parties dont want to support it, its the price of having 1% of marketshare, but i dont see how making the developers life harder will help that.
eg:
xkcd.com/927/
"others use their own frameworks to not deal with the specific frameworks of each OS"
and that is the exactly problem!
If you cant support all distros ui/ux, and you still have to support windows and mac beyond that, then whats your logical next best choice?
use your own DE , hardcode the theme for for the app.
that is what this fragmentation is encouraging, from my point of view, that defeat the purpose of having those options to begin with.
@@Sumire973 "any actor in bad faith can arrive to impose their monopoly"
Im not saying valve is BAD, most of the things they do is good despite the fact that they are an company, but steam is proprietary and monopolies are bad in general for consumers.
and guess what is saving the linux desktop? then...
its saving because there is a limit for how much people are willing to deal with the linux problems (mainly lack of games), valve solve that.
for example, i was tired of having to deal with issues to install an game, almost to the point of going back to windows, but valve fixed that.
linux was losing marketshare, probably because i was not the only one tired of the way things were.
but that is a bit of contradictory, shouldnt an open source company be the saviors of linux?
nowadays, most of my applications are games, i dont use tons of programs for 3D modeling etc because:
1)even if i wanted, i dont have options.
2)its a bit of P.I.T.A. to have to use multiple programs to complete an workflow (3D modeling, texturing, riging, animating, rendering)
so i dont have many apps to do my job installed but have tons of games...
so what is the package manager that im using the most? steam!
the lack of standardization (deb, rpm) caused tons or problems and even to solve that we have fragmentation (snap, flatpak, appimage) and then steam came and solve that...
wich is really awkward...
and nowadays we accept an OS with ads on the UI (steamOS, because steam have ads on their UI) as an acceptable solution against an OS with (among other issues) ads on their UI...
people criticize windows but steamOS do the samething in that regard...
@@Sumire973 "generates the standards for the web that we all use, that's what Linux really needs."
i completely agree!
my issue with tons of options was more like:
they should follow the same standards for encoding ui data.
on the web an is always an button.
you dont have to write for QT, for GTK.
its always button.
as an result, its easy to support all browsers, it dont matter if firefox is using canvas+shadders for drawing buttons on screen and chrome is using "machine learning" or any BS like that, it will work on any code implementation!
the issue is to discuss standards with tons of players, but if we dont do that and agree on standards, then the standards will be Valve, or even worse, if valve manages to put windows in trouble...
microsoft will create their own proprietary linux distro and dominate it.
an distro with the advantages of linux but an proton like app with full support for windows games and applications...
but still, with tons of issues that windows have like spying on users...
something akin to android, were OEM vendors make it harder to change to a custom rom (because you wont have drivers for proprietary stuff like the camera and bluetooth), where the OS vendor make thirdy part games dependant on their own proprietary libraries (google play services), were we have an single company to try to solve all security issues...
we need to discuss standardization in some core aspects before the big tech and "mamon machine" impose their own.
i dont care if you going to use snap or flatpak, or deb or whatever, the end user shouldnt suffer trying to install an application, the app developer shouldnt suffer trying to distribute.
either we sit in a table and discuss standards or linux share will shrink or valve will be the next google android.
(i only criticized android, but there are a lot of things i like about it btw)
The fix you showed is the same one that I use and DaVinci is working again
Yeah, it came out like two days after recording.
I've also used another source, which essentially did the same, but it still failed. Dunno what changed or if another dependency was broken
The funny world of proprietary stuff on Linux. It is rather wild. 🤔🤣
"Why the heck don't they just use Flatpak." Seriously. Why don't they just use Flatpak? Why doesn't everyone just use Flatpak? In fact, I'm going to go a step further and say Flathub should be the default app repo for Linux. Instead of each distro programming team maintaining their own distro specific repo, just use Flathub. And all the major players, Red Hat, SUSE, Canonical, the Debian team, and all other interested parties should be part of Flathub's governance board.
I'm pretty sure that's sarcastic, but I'm still answering.
Flathub is a very good option to distribute very "heavy" programs which depend on many often changing dependencies. But this is not the majority of programs and mostly affect proprietary ones, since you can easily recompile open source software.
I'm in 2 minds about the whole discussion.
On the one hand I like that companies are actually packaging stuff for Linux now and I think however they release it is fine and it shows how they feel about Linux in general, on the other hand I really feel like a second class citizen if you're not using Ubuntu as that is what most applications target. I think there are some core issues with Flatpak which is the reason why many of them claim they can't support it, but I hate having to rely on snaps as it was always just so slow, in addition i'm uncomfortable with relying on a proprietary repository for bunches of my software which is the main reason I don't really dig snaps.
I'd love there to be a universal standard packaging format but at this point in the game I just think such a thing is impossible for the linux ecosystem.
Nothing is ever impossible.
The problem has been none of the package all-in-one solutions have managed to address EVERY flaw.
You need the benefits of all three solutions without any of the negatives.
you know you could use a Arch based distro and just install it from the AUR, but Arch is unstable !! (to this kind of thing i say no, it has just work for make there is none of this kind of problems and you are not force to build your software from source like Ubuntu.
that said i use Linux from 1996 and i know my way around in Linux and can fix anything, but you should so too if you can't)
This is why Linux fails on the desktop; if you create a program that is not open source, it breaks the moment a dependency is updated with ABI changes. It's why proton is superior to having native linux games. There have been a few porting houses of games to Linux, like lokigames and LGP, and their games basically don't work anymore due to broken dependencies. Microsoft solved this problem on Windows a long time ago.
I’m trying avoid the SaaS/GaaS/HaaS (as a service, or as I put it… as a scam, as a subscription) business model as much as possible. I don’t mind proprietary software though… if it respects my values, my system and workflow, my financial situation, etc.
I just switched to Linux recently though, and there has been a lot of improvements… but there’s so much stuff that still doesn’t work properly for me. I don’t have a super power, brand new, high end system… so I have stuttering in games (than in Windows), stuttering audio (and no multichannel audio setup like I had in Windows with Voicemeeter), issues with some hardware (especially NVIDIA - which I totally agree with Linus Torvald’s statement “NVIDIA, F**K YOU!” 😂).
Hopefully one day I’ll be able to fix all the issues.
I strictly refuse to use flatpaks or snaps.
If the devs can't be bothered to properly link against dynamic libraries, they can link statically. Flatpaks are just needlessly complicated with their stupid sandbox approach, duplicating dependencies ad infinitum...
All proprietary software sucks. We are just spoiled with FOSS on Linux so much that proprietary software when it does appear looks terrible like it always does in comparison.
Ich glaube, dass idt auch der Grund warum nobara Linux nich auf Fedora 37 basiert. Erst wenn da alles funktioniert wird er das hochstufen.
Have you tried Nobara
Dont do it
Distrobox
I just have windows on an external ssd (with rufus windows to go) and whenever I need a program that would mess with my system I just use the ssd.
Everything would work, if it can. Unless you just wanna wait and solely rely on your distribution maintainers choices or decisions.
I commented about flatpak before I saw you said it in the video😂
Use distrobox. That way you can use davinci in a container with Fedora 37.
MMMM MEH!!!
Any arch based distro ---> yay -S davinci-resolve
You need a GTX mmmm ... 900 series or better ---> Nvidia proprietary drivers and bumblebee if you are on a laptop
I have to say that you forgot to state the business side. Companies want to leverage their developers efficiently. Keep in mind that they may also be building for macOS and Windows, not just Linux. There isn't an incentive to build for Flatpak if the Flatpak usage is small compared to Snaps. Ubuntu is already the most popular Linux distro out there so companies are going to focus on Ubuntu more and prefer that than Flatpaks.
Doesn't make really sense to me, flatpak is mostly a standard now and people who want davici would just install it. Don't know any distro that doesn't have flatpak
I'd disagree, although ubuntu is, undeniably, the most popular linux distro, it's also the only distro who ships snaps by default, which, unlilke flatpaks, faces significan't philosophical problems for being based on a proprietary backend developed by canonical, which, in consequence, is causing it to fail to be adopted by other distros, such as fedora, suse, manjaro and even other ubuntu based distros, such as PopOs, Mint and Zorin, which are activally removing snaps from the Ubuntu source code due to the aforementioned proprietary backend.
@@myrunoteukuyatiru7374 for me I don’t mind if it is proprietary or not. I just care about which method has the best user experience. Snaps are a joy imo
I don't really like flat packs tbh
And I hate snaps even more
Appimages ftw
@@jazilzaim I use linux, freedom of choice is my moto so I can't judge for not caring about proprietary software, neither was my intention to do so, however, what you can't ignore is the licensing issues the proprietary backend might cause to other commercial distributions, and considering that adoption rates should be the major incentive for software companies to use their resources for developing Linux apps, flatpaks seem more attractive, even more so if you consider they're quite a bit faster than snaps. Though, I've heard that snaps are excellent for server applications.
I think that your attitude here is pure entitlement. You want the devs to work specifically for you, without even paying. The program works on an earlier version of fedora and on a butch of other distro's you could use, but you chose to blame the devs decision making which for all we know might be the best solution they found for them to distribute on Linux and is genuinely the best for the devs.
i try davinci, now i use lightworks, basic for editing on travel with a normal laptop.
I am looking to buy a pc for Linux. Does intel quick sync work on OBS on pop os or fedora?
Anyone using Intel cpu pls help.
❤
It should but I don't know if it's out of the box. My guess would be that the default is VAAPI which does essentially the same with similar quality.
VAAPI uses the same hardware acceleration.
i have other proprietary software installed on fedora and only davinci shit didn't work after upgrading to fedora 38, the developers are just bad
Linux my friend has some problems(cough cough)....I learned the hard way multiple times that it is smart to actually wait for a few month before it gets actually stable.
But I am like the rest of you ... a common man. I see new release with cool upgrades and I hop towards it like a bunny.
Recently I could not control myself and installed Ubuntu 23.04. Its fast and very beautiful and all but no games are running😅
It's probably because the mesa drivers didn't had time to be updated to 23.04
@@una-mura Oh. They could have waited some more then
@Петар Милошевић Lol
Many big companies don't care about desktop Linux, and it is completely understandable:
- We're few (meaning there's not much money to be made),
- We're fragmented as hell (though universal packaging formats like Snap, Flatpak, and AppImage do exist),
- A decent chunk of Linux users and distro maintainers are die-hard FOSS/FLOSS fans.
Plus, most of us are pretty, pretty sensitive about some stuff:
- Our privacy and data collection,
- Our rights (Linux users have a big problem with EULAs and terms of use which look even remotely shady)
- Freedom of choice (not being corralled into software/hardware ecosystems like Apple's iOS/macOS, Adobe's suite, or Samsung's Galaxy ecosystem),
- Freedom to edit/customize and fork the software we use.
thats why we use shotcut or olive
is not "had to be Davinci Resolve" is more like: "linux cant get to work with creative tools no matter what"
....I have been trying a stable system since before you were born
I also want to point out that enterprise linux is horrible for creative work as well because LV2, codecs and hardware support is super outdated. I installed centos a while back and was like god this old and switched away. Also, I have debian 11 (a supposedly supported operating system) with matlab because I need for school. They installed matlab so they do not have permission to install additional toolboxes with the default install. you cannot go super user because the license is linked to your username it is like you did not test this proper guys.
To be fair if I had a boss bratahing down my neck for 100% uptime I'd take an old package that has been tested time and time again for stability over the hot new thing that just came out anyday.
Red Hat Enterprise and Suse, as well as Ubuntu Pro are the ones that you would want in that scenario. At least for support.
Debian's "slow" update cycle is good, but for some it can be too slow.
There's a difference between for enterprise users and for servers. CentOS I'd say is for REGULAR users and for servers. Red Hat is for enterprise users.
Yes, debian is slow with the updates compared to other distros but missing the bigger picture. Debian 11 with the default desktop is one of the supported operating systems for matlab and if you use their own installation program you will not have a working matlab installation. I am agreeing with the video premise that Proprietary Software Sucks on Linux. This is supposedly a tested version of Linux but the program still doesn't work.
They could release a snap like Spotify or Steam
Flatpak adds soon payments
Stop buying their software and use a competitor or if it works, use the windows version on wine? some companies are just garbage, the more you give them your money the more of the same behavior you will get.
Wine doesn't pass through the GPU to resemble the Windows driver so it won't work that way.
I would argue that closed source in general is a bad idea for distribution's sake, but if a company insists on doing so, a completely static build would be the best bet. I love AppImages because they just work, but even they have a dependency, even if it is one that is easily met and nearly every system has it by default, and I've still not gotten FlatPak to work on my system at all. Yeah a static build would still be a giant download, but it would work on every system.
Good video.
Flatpak is just better than snap they are interesting on arm since there not arciteture independent.
same issue here
Agree with you what I think.