Its especially eggregious on the variants with jump jets, (which is most of them). The only advantage of arm weapons is widened arks of fire, so you can run sideways and still point atleast one arm at the enemy. Jump jets give you that same flexibility with your TORSO WEAPONS. The Pheonix Hawks large laser should be in the center torso.
@@StarlightSocialist I think there's still some benefit. That wider arc of fire comes in handy when you want to shoot multiple targets, as having the arm weapons might make the difference between hitting that second target or not. I will admit that this isn't much of a help for at least half the Phoenix Hawks though, as they tend to have only a few weapons to work with.
It's important to be able to get a shot at the rear if needed.I am cool with putting the two mediums into the torso and leaving them out of the arms let's you shoot 2 lasers and punch. Having the guns in the torso save for the large laser is nice. The two mediums and two MGs is 2 heat with a jump and 4 rolls to hit and most lvl 1 mech don't have much rear armor. Unless you group you probably won't get through the armour in one round but it is definitely threatening in a round or two.
I know right? Taking the JJs out of a Wolverine, sure, OK, I can see the viability of that (even if I don't care for it), but doing that to a Phoenix Hawk is a sin.
My personal custom variant takes an idea from the 1K and scales it back to "not suck" status. In short; remove machine guns and ammo, plus two jump jets (not all six FFS). Then add two heat sinks and reinforce armor. A variant of this variant instead sacrifices a medium laser and a machine gun and reinforces the armor a little less.
Unfortunately it was in person. Almost as bad as last game when I rolled snake eyes on a hermit crab's consciousness roll immediately after saying "watch me fail this"
@@joelaugustin6407 Been there done that, but with a WH40k Power Field back I'm 2E... 2+ on a d6... I mean it's a 1/6 not a 1/36 chance but I feel ya'... Also, this is why I ALWAYS call them ROCKET launchers not MISSile launchers....
I do unholy things with mech design in HBS's Battletech game, I've stripped the jump jets off of a Wolverine to fit six extra SRM tubes while one bay over a Zeus was having jump jets retro fitted to it.
The Phoenix Hawk 2K is one of my favourite "that chunk of the timeline where things are getting more advanced but you still have mostly introtech" IS mechs around. I field it whenever it feels appropriate, even when it's not ideal.
@@MechanicalFrog I felt pretty similarly, but after playing a Campaign with one in my company for about a year now, it's really grown on me. Feels like an upsized Wolfhound, for better or worse.
On Twitter I called it the mech of the brave and the dead. High performance well armed for its size and used by many aces, but a mech that very often demands a certain amount of recklessness to pilot well. Its a mech I literally learned on playing megamek with my early scout lances and became a part of some of my greatest victories. Once got some one to surrender after I threatened some one's archer fire line after wiping out its body guard and won a con event with the PXH-3PL which has become my favorite variant to this day due to this. Its also a mech that its recklessness will get it killed many a time taking a chance often gets it head shot due to its low armor on the head in the base models. Literally shot the head and salvaged one In the campaign just completed. Bar none one of my favorite mechs and often a must for my scout lances.
As the first mech I ever fielded, and continue to love to this day, I can say with authority that you get REAL GOOD at risk assessment when running one in your lance. But do it right and holy shit you can be a terror...or an annoyance.
By far my favorite medium mech and consistently in my top 3 of all mech weight classes! My best game of battletech ever was a 5 player, free-for-all Solaris death match. The other guys were all piloting heavy or assault mechs and laughed when I decided to bring my little 3K Phoenix Hawk to the fight. In their minds, ju,p jets were a waste of tonnage that could have been better used with heat sinks or armor. However, their tones changed when I managed to stick to the high ground and they just couldn't pin me down. The fight began with a pair of boxcars from my pulse lasers which blew the head off of the Atlas player's mech. They chalked it up to luck, but that soon changed. The Archer player chased me over a high bridge, and I casually reminded him of the bridge's 50 ton weight limit, and the 7 levels of falling damage to his back resulted in his ammunition cooking off on both side torsos. The last 2 had been slugging it out while ignoring me, and by the time there was a winner, his 5S Marauder was too badly damaged to put up much of a fight, and I was able to finish him off with a large laser hit which took out his side torso and the XL engine. Needless to say, their opinions on faster, jump-capable mechs quickly changed after that fight!
I will never forgot my last game with it, testing my Aces campaign, me in a PHX-1kk, first shot the enemy makes a thru armor crit to my fire control, the proceeds to leave me alone, rest of allies flee off board near the end, and there is one enemy in strike range and I want that VP, so I jumped behind the damaged Valkyrie and said “I guess we do it the charger way and made a physical attack to his rear that got a crit and destroyed him. I will remember that for a long time.
@@MechanicalFrog I've loved the Pixie ever since I started playing in the early 2000s. It might not be the easiest 'mech to get the best out of, but in the hands of a patient mechwarrior, it's lethal.
Phoenix Hawks are a mech that excels in lances of mixed weight grades. They're not a primary mech for any role, but can fill in on almost any other role at need, serving as a useful backup in case the primary mech for a role is destroyed or somehow tied up. The mech isn't just a light mech killer either, it has the mobility and firepower to absolutely wreck even well-armored, ground bound medium battlemechs. I've done some bad things to Hunchbacks and Kintaros in my time running this mech.
The Phoenix Hawk is a fantastic mech for beginers to learn heat management and jump jets. It's quick and efficient in what it is supposed to do or it's scrap.
My son used a -3S to solo a Black Knight. It was beautiful. Got behind it quickly, shredded the rear armor, then as the Knight tried to flee to a woodline, my son kicked on the Supercharger and, well, super-charged. From the front one would have effectively seen a Phoenix Hawk emerge chest-burster style from the Black Knight.
I never realized that the Phoenix Hawk had so many laser variants! I much prefer those to the typical "missile boat" configuration that I thought it was always confined to being. An all-ballistic load-out is fine as long as you have ammo to fire. It's just always felt to me to be a mech functioning on borrowed time.
Ooo nasty. I run mine with a Arrow IV and a PPC-X in Mechwarrior 5. Makes quick work of lights and other mediums and can even make some short work of Heavies and Assaults as long as you got some LRM missile boats backing it up.
I'm running the 3S, having swapped the AMS and its ammo for a Guardian and an extra double heat sink, making me heat neutral. Probably my favorite moment was jumping back while firing at the ammo car of a rail=mounted Long Tom, turning that railway into a crater.
The best part about the MF variants is that even though I don't really play the tabletop game outside of the random tabletop RPG campaign, I can usually recreate the build in the HBS BattleTech: RogueTech mod.
Ah the 'Hero Mech', asking the real question: Does it look cool? As a fan of the old "now ok to be seen" anime 'inspired' mechs this thing will always have a place in the meta of my heart.
The Phoenix Hawk is the mech against which all scouts and scout hunters is measured for a reason, and in my first Mechwarrior RPG campaign, both the regular and LAM variants of the Phoenix Hawk were my character's mounts of choice, though in his case they'd been customized a bit.
Ah, the Phoenix Hawk. I remember seeing the original official artwork for the mech and thinking "Oh, they have a full-armor Macross Super Valkyrie in Battroid mode!"
I had only one glorious win with my custom Phoenix Hawk on the tabletop. I joined a pub game that was in process at my local game shop. I was late to join and the table needed a 5th player. The other 4 players soaked up the tonnage limit with assaults because they didn't have a full star. All that was left was 45 tons. So Phoenix Hawk it is. The 4 tables were set up end to end with the terrain looked like this: Starting point Mountainous that stretched half the first table. Then it leads down into an open plain of farms for the last half. The second table is a 36-hex river crossing with 3 bridges. 2 out of 3 were destroyed. After the river crossing another open terrain that leads to an Airbase. At the final 2 tables was an awesome cityscape design as a death trap. Before I joined the other players made it to the city half busted up. The final objective was to destroy the government building and its defenders. The Omni Mechs shined on this scenario when resupplying at certain completed stages that the other player completed. Instead of starting at the beginning. The GM did a series of rolls to determine my start point and try to catch up to the rest. I started on the other side of the 36 hex river crossing. So I had to haul ass. By the time I got there. Half the players were down. The remaining enemies were two Atas, a Marauder, two Crabs, and 3 pulse laser /SRM turrets. My Pilot Card was Gun: 7 Pilot: 8 Guts: 4 Tactics: 6 with the abilities: Hot Dog, Jumping Jack, and Marksman. This is my Phoenix Hawk build. Phoenix Hawk PXH-OZ BV: 2,109 Cost: 11,149,340 C-bills Chassis: (clan)Endo Steel Armor: 7 tons of Ferro-Fibrous / Internal: 75 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 134/153 (Ferro-Fibrous) Power Plant: Clan 225 XL Movement: 5/8(10)/4 Double Heat Sinks: 10 [23] Gyro: Standard Gyro HEAT: 26/23 Weapons: 1x (clan) ER PPC 2x ATM 3 one in LL and RL (A ton of High-Explosive ATM/3 Ammo in the LT 20 shots /2= 10 shot each) 1x ATM 6 in the RA (1 ton of Extended-Range and High-Explosive ATM/6 in the RT & LT 20 shots each) Equipment: Targeting Computer [Clan] (Clan) in the LT Active Probe [Clan] (Clan) in the HD MASC (Clan) in the RT Partial Wing (Clan) (Clan) LT& RT Design Quirks: The Improved Targeting, Multi-Trac, and Nimble Jumper When I engaged my active probe showed me how damaged the enemy was. The one Atlas was barely touched and had Gauss Rifles. I targeted him first and got an epic cockpit kill at a range of 21 with 4 ATM/3 hits and the ER PPC. The other Atlas is halved with only 2 large lasers and SRMs. While the Marauder had no more armor on both side torsos. I unleashed my ATM/6 on him and it was enough to down him as it had IS XL engine. A hell of a good start. The turrets turn battered the other two players crippling one of them and the Crab was out of the arch of the two players but the crippled player managed to land an LBX20 Shot on the crab's leg and crit out the upper leg. The other player unloaded on the Atlas and missed half their shots. In-kind the Atlas does so as well, then finishes him with a Battle fist to the CT in the melee round. I on the movement phase I had to close in as I couldn't hit shit. Then in my run, I hit a hidden mech mine that nearly took off my leg! 1 armor point remained but it crit disabled my ATM3. ("Thanks Bros! For no telling me that there is a minefield..") I used the last of my movement to JJ onto a building and got LOS on the turrets and the two mechs. The Crab and Atlas moved to take up defensive cover right next to the Government building and turrets. Crippled Bro and Turrets can't do anything during the movement phase. Firing Phase: The Crab alpha strike at me and only landed a large laser hit on my CT. The Atlas fired on the crippled bro and didn't do enough damage. Crippled Bro get lucky again with his LBX20! Lands a crits on the main engine almost sending it popping. Witnessing this with my active probe on my turn I targeted everything on the remaining critical point on the Atlas's CT. With all the bonuses to gunnery. Everything landed in the CT taking out the gyro with it. The Atas goes nuke taking out the two turrets, severely damaging the Crab, and the government building collapses on the crab crushing it with its debris. Mission Complete! Shortly after the build fell. We hear that there is going to be a saturation bombardment of the city targeted on our location by Arrow IV's and Long Toms! We have two turns to escape the city. With my speed, it's doable. I picked up Crippled Bro Pilot and ran. Then my MASC Roll fails. 6 hexes from the edge of the city. The shells an Arrow IV start randomly impacting the city. A long tom clipped my mech dealing 20 damage to my right side! RA was gone, 8 Points of armor left on the RT, and RL as taken 1 internal! As a last-ditch effort JJ through a building to get to the other side to land on the airbase runway taxiway. Causing Damage to my LL that took 2 internal damage. Then with 5 hex movement, I cleared the city and made it back to the supply point. That was the end of that other people in the shop were cheering me on as they watched and congratulated the other players and GM for a great display. After that I was standing for more than 5 hours during that time and I rushed to the bathroom because I had to pee badly. lol
My favorite story with the Phoenix Hawk on the tabletop was in my first ever tabletop game of BattleTech (only a few months ago as of typing), I insta-killed an Atlas by blowing up all its ammo. It was AWESOME!
Ah my favorite mech of all time. I had a great build for it that "fixes" the Royal variant. Remove the ER Large Laser. Replace the two medium lasers on the arms with Medium Pulse Lasers and add another one to the head. Drop the machine gun ammo to half a ton and spend the leftover 1 and a half tons on boosting its armor. The thing performs like you would not believe.
Why do we love the Phoenix Hawk? It's one of the first ten 'Mechs dating all the way back to BattleDroids. It's based on the SVF-1 Super Veritech from Robotech, where many of us were introduced to anime... however poorly. The luckier among us got to see it as the Super Valkrye of Super Dimensional Fortress Macross instead. It's a medium mech that, by it's very existence, puts a lot of pressure on light mechs by being just as fast and maneuverable, but is better armed and armored than most. It's also a great command mech for a light lance.
The PXH-9 with its improved jump jets peaks my interest - if any mech can put improved jump jets to good use, it's the Pheonix hawk. The 6D variant seems like fun too - having an accurate sniper rifle seems like a good way to lose friends!
P hawk baby!! Love this mech. My very first mech I ever used in the game. I ran out so much I had to buy two in the late 80s. Such a beautiful versatile medium mech.
I had a character that LOVED his PH, but hated 1Ks and would go out of his way to hunt them at any and all opportunities - getting sever reprimands on occasion. If she had not been an amazing scout and shot. ... her PH slowly got upgraded with this and that but mostly it was patchwork repairs.. her favorite was when she had to replace her engine and squeezed a 275 in - which the Wolverine and Griffin pilots welcomed her to the gang and the three got into a LOT of mischief on and off the battle field. part of me always thought that how some designs were so ubiquitous that possibly they were more like the LRM/SRM carriers... they were a design philosophy - All "Stingers" were 20 tns 6/9/6 bi pedal with 2MG and ML installed in said locations...etc... another great video
My first 'hawk was a -6D. My pilot was part of a merc unit on campaign, fighting against Clan machines. We mvanaged to survive the first few fights and even a three-fight stint without my PPC after it was destroyed. My tech crew managed to salvage a clan-tech ER-PPC and install it. That was followed by replacement of the 4 ER-Mediums with a pair of clan-tech medium pulse lasers. I had a lot of fun with that machine. 🙂
With 45 tonners being my favorite and my specialty, I'm really happy to see the Phoenix Hawk. I did pass over it at first, but it's slowly warmed up on me. It feels like the Vindicator in that it strikes that balance of power and defense, albeit while using different proportions. I also think it's worth mentioning that all the -1 needs from a Helm upgrade is DHS and it goes from notable to scary. You could even swap the Large for an ER Large and still get only +1 heat from jumping. I do have a refit proposal for the Pheonix Hawk, and I can do it briefly. It's basically a IS tech version of the P-hawk C. To do this, I pulled out the Large Laser, 1/2 ton of MG ammo, 1/2 ton of armor, and a jump jet. Armor and structure get upgraded to Endo and Ferro, and the engine is switched to a light version. Each arm gets a Medium Laser and a Machine gun. Each side torso gets a Light AC/5, one ton of autocannon ammo, and CASE. Your choice on which bin gets the MG ammo. Heat stinks are standard, as they aren't totally necessary. If you do want the sixth jump jet, you can probably shave a little armor off instead. All and all, I think it's a side-grade at best, but it's a fun idea.
Well, my favorite version is obviously me. Though a LAM, not a base model, I still like me. By the War of 3039, I was just armed with two standard large lasers. Mostly because double heat sinks and the conversion equipment. The Clantech we managed to get from the Falcons meant I got back to a bit more firepower. 2 Clantech ER Large, 2 Clantech medium pulse lasers, and room for a Clantech LRM 10. Unfortunately, the old body finally got damaged beyond repair in 3056, with nobody making repair kits for LAM conversions. That’s when I upgraded to the IIC body. Even managed to get the weapons in, and space for a Clantech Ultra AC5. It looks weird to me, sticking past the right side of my head.
I love that the Phoenix Hawk is a metric by which light mechs are judged. If the Phoenix Hawk hits you in the leg with its large laser…will it still be there? Or will you be an 85kph tumbling hunk of metal? Hmmmmmmm.
Hello Frog. Another good video, my friend. Yes, there are a plethora of Phoenix Hawk variants out there. Most of which I would only field in dire extremist. On the other hand, there are several, as you have mentioned, that are 'worth their salt' in battle. Both you and I have come up with variants on this classic Mech. I plan to 'yoink' your design for testing soon. Meanwhile, perhaps you'll test out mine. The PHX-3M-GL was based upon the PHX-3M (Masters) variant. Due to issues with procurement, and battle damage when attempting to repair the Mech out of the supplies available to my Union Class Drop-ship, the SRM-4s had to be yanked, along with their ammo. Enough weight was 'saved' and used to add 2 tons of armoring, an additional IS-DSHS, and finally, 4 more Machine Guns. I 'tested' this variant against someone who was unfamiliar with my penchant for very fast Mechs, and Jump capable ones. Two turns of running the Mech onto and further into the field of battle, somehow, convinced the foe that I was using one of the Kurita variants without jump jets. He, thus, made the mistake of allowing me to close upon his Mech to the point that I was able to leap behind him and 'Alpha Strike' his rear armor. It was only post battle that I found out that he had shaved down his rear armor to increase his Mech's arm armor protection. So, 1 ER Lrg Laser, 2 Med Lasers, and FIVE MG shots later, and his Mech was headed to the ground. Back smoking and gyro ripped to shreds. Even with the Targeting Computer installed into his Mech, the opponent was only able to score light hits as my Mech closed. The 'kill' was totally unexpected, since I thought I would have to win the initiative to enable a 2nd back strike to get the same result. I'll take the blessing of the dice gods and not complain (all except one MG hit center torso, and that one hit the Head).
The 1D is probably my favorite canon variant. Your MF model is nice, too. My Phoenix hawk ISM is based on the Phoenix Hawk C, though it is a mixed tech platform. Most of it is Clan tech, excluding the IS TSM. It mounts a partial wing along with 6 improved jump jets, and carries a light active probe in the head. For punch it carries an IS large re-engineered laser in the right arm along with a Clan micro pulse laser. Its left arm also has a micro pulse laser, but has a standard medium laser with it. A second medium laser is carried in the CT.
Gotta love the hawk, it’s always served me well as a counter to clan lights and a backstabbing threat with those jump jets. A lot of variants are nicely punchy too
This is easily my favorite BattleMech in TRO:3025. It is also, bar none, the most overpowered ‘Mech in HBS BATTLETECH, due to the non-simultaneous weapons fire and built-in advantages. I can solo any mission in the vanilla game without taking a scratch using the PHX-1b with the right build. More recently, the Phoenix Hawk C 2 is excellent, preserving the strengths while minimizing weaknesses (in particular, ammo that might cook off when pushing the heat envelope before jumping behind cover). I prefer to swap the AP Gauss Rifles for Micro Pulse Lasers, which allows me to include some electronics as well.
Ah yes, the phawk tuah. I'm gonna love it no matter what, the IS version of the shadow cat, the little annoying bugger that you can't catch but is gonna getcha if it gets the chance. What it can't outgun it can outrun, what it can't outrun it can outgun generally. It's fully a loner flanker mech, filling no role but getting itself where it needs to be, it's got all the character for that and I love it all the more for it.
Love it. Not a great scout, but a fantastic skirmisher and scout killer. Oh yeah, I totally forgot it was Shin Yodama's Phoenix Hawk being harassed by Elementals on the cover of Lethal Heritage. Both a Plasma Rifle _and_ a Partial Wing? MechFrog, you tease!
While watching the video I was thinking "I'd put Partial Wing on it" and that what's you did with Mech Frogs variant. For nearly any mech with Jump Jets a Partial Wing just makes sense(well to me at least)
As it turns out, the PHX-LAM is a wonderful machine as long as you equip it with Clan-spec weapons. Then again, just about any LAM is "fixed" with the introduction of clan weapons and Double Heat Sink kits.
I have never had a Phoenix Hawk do me wrong. I, however, have done it wrong so many times. Something about the firepower and the jump jets, gives me a sense of “invulnerability” that always gets proven wrong, in often spectacular fashion.
I know you can’t cover all of variants but I’m honestly surprised you didn’t include the 3PL. It is a short ranged version but having a LPL and 2 MPL WITH a targeting computer is nothing to sneeze at. Get behind another mech and watch them sweat. I also like how jumping is basically negated entirely by the -3. It can jump 6 and fire all three pulse lasers without going red. Also totally energy based
My first exposure to Battletech was Decision at Thunder Rift so Durant Carlyle's Phoenix Hawk was the first Mech I saw in action. I love the D line of variants, and I'm hoping for an IlClan era Phoenix Hawk D to come soon. I always remove the 3D's Anti-Missile system and either add three more double Heat sinks or two more double heat sinks and a ton of armor. Edit: The last modification basically turns it into a 3K actually now that I think about it. Also your in video stats list the 2K as having 6 Jump Jets which they lack if I remember correctly.
Love it, it being on the cover of The Crescent Hawk's Inception is what got me into BT! It's a quintessential Hero Mech, like a Victor. In Universe however, I like the idea of your heros looking for a Phoenix Hawk and finding a beat up Chameleon instead!
I have to say you unintentionally convinced me to try to do the 4L (granted the character one that has an Clan ER Large Laser instead of IS one) and it's fun to do a Phoenix Hawk that can sniper while making it hard for your opponent to hit you back with that Stealth Armor. Also it was a game where I wanted to learn how to use Stealth Armor because I am a Capellan fan lol.
@@MechanicalFrog It helped a little yeah. It was a 7K BV ffa game with my main heavy lifters being the Cataphract and Vindicator 4L. The Phoenix Hawk didn't do much damage but did enough help to force a Nightstar to fail two of its three piloting rolls it needed to take.
The PHX is a tough, speedy and dangerous scout leader/ scout hunter. Also rounds out a medium lance for screening heavy/ assult mechs and as part of a flanking force.
The phoenix hawk might be THE mercenary mech in the medium bracket. Highly flexible, highly maneuverable, packs a decent punch, readily available and very upgradable over the years. The phoenix hawk fills any role you can imagine a medium mech should be capable of: Heavy scout, anti infantry, anti vehicle, bodyguard for heavier units, guerilia warfare.. you name it the phoenix hawk can pull it of. The biggest issue is heat managment, though wich 3025 design doesnt have heat issues? The phoenix hawk is a great addition to any medium mech or even as a command mech of a scout lance. If its in the salvage pile, grab it!
"THE" is a pretty heavy word. As a scout, sure, but most mercs are going to be looking for something more rounded. Like the four members of the 55 Trinity.
@@tenchraven Debatable since the 55 tonners have terrible weapon loadouts The Shadowhawk has a schizophrenic ammo based weapons loadout that leaves it underperforming in most scenarios. The wolverine while agile also has rather lackluster firepower that mostly relies on ammo. The griffon has heavy armor but is allmost defenseless at close range. The phoenix hawk is flexible, packs a decent punch, can deal with infantry, is fast and maneuverable and only needs machine gun ammo for its secondaries wich you can get at every corner in the IS or periphery. Its this flexibility, ease on maintenance and logistics and overall effectiveness on the battlefield no matter the situation that makes me say that its THE medium mech any merc unit should try to get its hands on. Cause most merc units wont be able to afford more then 12 mechs aka 3 lances aka a regiment, so you have to get the most bang for your buck (if you have the choice, especially in 3025 there isnt that much of an open market for battlemechs)
This is a mech whose effectiveness is polarizing, especially between models, and even which type of big stompy metal carnage you're engaging in (the tabletop rules of Battletech vs the action game mechanics of Mechwarrior). Personally, it is a love-hate affair for me, based entirely on which game I'm playing. It certainly doesn't lack for mobility, which is a big plus for a Light Mech jockey like me, who prefers the speedier side of things to raw firepower most of the time. In this, the PXH does not disappoint. In my experience, the Phoenix Hawk's effectiveness largely boils down to those arms and how long they last, because on most models, all the firepower is located there. (Clanners raised on batchall-via-OmniMech will feel right at home.) For a light mech hunter and premier skirmisher mech, this design decision makes a lot of sense as being able to quickly and precisely direct most (usually all) of your firepower at one point is essential when firing at fast moving targets or when making attacks on the run. However, this is the classic "putting all your eggs in one basket" design and the relative lack of armor on the arms of most canonical configurations of the Phoenix Hawk makes this a mech for bold pilots. In MWO, experienced pilots will take advantage of this by targeting one aim or one leg in particular. Clever pilots running the Phoenix Hawkwill combine Torso Twist Speed skills with the usual Armor skills to more reliably spread damage across the side torsos by twisting through volleys of fire as their opponents try to exploit their weakness. This resulted in hilarious duels between Phoenix Hawks as both pilots would engage in bouts of tilt-o-whirl laser spam and jump jetting madness; each pilot desperately trying to land precise damage on the other's weak spot even as they twisted and ran and jumped to mitigate the damage. I don't remember who said it, but one person back on the Piranha forums likened these duels to two children playing flashlight tag, trying to blind the other all while constantly looking away to avoid the gaze of their opponent's beam. We don't really see that anymore after the Clans came to MWO, but...ah fun times. On the PvE side of things In MW5: The Phoenix Hawk is a very solid performer; basically an upgunned Firestarter (or Commando). Though I generally don't prioritize it as salvage early on unless nothing better is available, or I have excess shares. It's not because the mech is bad, but because the game classifies it as a Medium, and in most expanded content via mods (Coyotes, or DLC) there are missions that specifically call for Light mechs, and the Raven and Jenner just do its job in those better despite Phoenix Hawks having broadly superior performance in everything but raw speed and mech profile. That said, I have been known to meme it up with refurbished PXH-2Bs sporting a quartet of Light PPCs once those become available. Makes for good training with PPCs and getting a hang of the shot velocity vs amount of lead you need.
Captured a nice variant in Rogue tech. FIERY FURY RA firefist battle fist. Tsm and enhanced reinforced actuators in all limbs. LA snub ppc w capacitor pirate (basically a lbx ppc) and shield. Supercharger and improved jjs. Frame heavy reinforced. Armor kaellin(sp?) ultra light FF. PWS with rear facing ct fusion flamer. Head dragon's breath and death stare laser array. To make room and save a ton - adv sm cockpit clan. Clan ecm and active probe. (LT) Backing up LA snubbie was a Disco laser array in RT RA had 2 sm pulses and laser ams Patchwork covered both torsos to cover the light engine better. The other named phawk I didnt get to loot was AA oriented (and really good at BA squad wiping) had 2 QS LBX lg lasers. 2 med pulses. 4 lmgs clan (that's just 1 ton) and a TC with AA bc, heat bc, and energy bc. Unfortunately it had to have failed every roll possible. I hit it with a golden BB, I guess, core pen crit, engine containment failure, ammo explosion, and self deletion from loot table. i.e. Full Stackpole killed the lone BA still swarming it that only had an ap gauss. (That mech deleted 4 of 5 in that squad/star the previous round. Damned QS lbx large lasers and tc/bc combos)😮 My BA carrying APCs were just open boxes after that explosion. Never got to deploy other squad. DRT in bay, undeployed.
I have the Ral Partha metal model (with both back jump jets) and 2 of the plastic ones. They just used the same mold. The Catalyst model looks more like a man-in-a-suit than an 11 meter Mech. Love it all the same.
My favorite variant is the 3PL. It feels like a refinement and upgrade to the original that delivers harder strikes while not needing to run as often to cool off. I also like needing to figure out to use it danger close to get the most out of its weapons. But I like pretty much all the variants, so long as they keep jump jets. Because of Phoenix Hawk without jump jets is like a Hunchback with CASE.
The PHX-3PL and the PHX-4M are probably my preferred variants at this point. Though personally I don't really 'love' the Phawk as much as other medium mechs.
i think this MF variant may be my favorite yet. it lacks the dakka or explosions i usually adore, but jump jets and a partial wing bring me back to my days playing the palladium robotech rpg with friends after school, and the plasma rifle and lasers promise to be great fun
So the reason the 3M comes in half a ton overweight is there was a rules change well after TR 3050 was published. The rules change caused weight saving equipment to be rounded up to the nearest half ton rather than truly halved. When first published the 3M's Endo steel frame and XL engine came in at 2.25 tons and 7.25 tons respectively. When the rules change hit it pushed those weights up to 2.5 and 7.5 tons, leaving the 3M a half ton overweight.
The stat listing you have for the 2K (at 15:29) lists 6 Jump Jets, even though the movement profile shows 6/9/0 & your voice over mentions "sacrificing those precious Jump Jets" I've also noticed small errors like that occasionally in a few previous Why Do We Love... episodes. Not a big deal, these are great & it's amazing how fast you get through 'Mechs, considering all the novel excerpts & variants
I like the Phoenix Hawk because its a great specialized mech. Its a high-speed scout and scout-hunter. It lacks a well-rounded weapons package like a Centurion which makes them pretty good as a 1-2 combo. 3025 is full of flawed mechs and the Phoenix Hawk isnt really one of them. Its easy to upgrade too. Just make small changes like upgrade to Small Pulse Laser, ER Medium Lasers, and a ER Large Laser. Now unfortunately its got a ugly offspring, the Phoenix Hawk IIC, which is entirely on the opposite side of the spectrum. Its a clan "upgrade" assault mech that adds on another 35tons. Its variants are almost totally dependent on alpha striking with limited ammunition/heat sinks. Its way too expensive to function as a garrison unit, and its not an omnimech either. From the Phoenix Hawk IIC's lore, it was a trick by Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox to sell mechs and then require customers to keep buying ammunition too.
The Phoenix hawk is my favorite mech. I love how HBS depicts it with the head that is a cross between master chief from halo and Gypsy Danger from Pacific Rim. I love other versions of it with the cool engine pods on the back. I do not love it with machine gun ammo because light armor + easy to hit ammo - CASE = a lost mech warrior It might just be in the hbs game regardless of if is only on with BEX or BTA3062 but I love it with 8 IJJ and 4 or 5 er medium lasers (depending on how much heat they make in that mod) for backstabbing and most crucially C3S, XL engine, endo, clan spec FF and as much armor as I can fit. It might have a serious lack of firepower for a 45 tonner, but it is crazy mobility, and great armor means it can provide range for units. Most crucially with that lack of weaponry it will not be as much of a primary, *if* i ever find a physical location to play this game. Overall I find myself continuing to create this build as it is fast, durable enough, and not worth the effort for the enemy to remove from the field immediately.
My only experience with Battletech come from the Harebrained Schemes game, so I can't say anything about the tabletop or the variants, but in that game I always thought that the Phoenix Hawk was a solid mech. It had a good enough combination of mobility, firepower, and just enough armor to tank a few hit if needed. Nothing exceptional, but a solid all-rounder.
1) Mount all your main weapons in the arms.
2) Under-armor the arms.
3) ???
4) Profit.
A'ight, scout session's over, we call it a draw.
Its especially eggregious on the variants with jump jets, (which is most of them). The only advantage of arm weapons is widened arks of fire, so you can run sideways and still point atleast one arm at the enemy. Jump jets give you that same flexibility with your TORSO WEAPONS. The Pheonix Hawks large laser should be in the center torso.
@@StarlightSocialist I think there's still some benefit. That wider arc of fire comes in handy when you want to shoot multiple targets, as having the arm weapons might make the difference between hitting that second target or not.
I will admit that this isn't much of a help for at least half the Phoenix Hawks though, as they tend to have only a few weapons to work with.
It's important to be able to get a shot at the rear if needed.I am cool with putting the two mediums into the torso and leaving them out of the arms let's you shoot 2 lasers and punch. Having the guns in the torso save for the large laser is nice. The two mediums and two MGs is 2 heat with a jump and 4 rolls to hit and most lvl 1 mech don't have much rear armor. Unless you group you probably won't get through the armour in one round but it is definitely threatening in a round or two.
"So what do you consider to be the Combine's worst war crime? Kentares IV?"
"The PXH-1K."
"Understandable."
I know right?
Taking the JJs out of a Wolverine, sure, OK, I can see the viability of that (even if I don't care for it), but doing that to a Phoenix Hawk is a sin.
SHD-2D blink in confusion, blankly uncomprehending on how it is being ignored.
@@michaelmoolick9419
That's it's own atrocity, we can thank House Davion for that one.
Some things cannot be forgiven.
My personal custom variant takes an idea from the 1K and scales it back to "not suck" status. In short; remove machine guns and ammo, plus two jump jets (not all six FFS). Then add two heat sinks and reinforce armor. A variant of this variant instead sacrifices a medium laser and a machine gun and reinforces the armor a little less.
Ah 3S, I'll never forget the first time I took you to battle and your masc failed on first use in the second round of the game. Magnificent.
"oops"
Sounds like MegaMek Tom foolery
Oof, bad luck there.
Unfortunately it was in person. Almost as bad as last game when I rolled snake eyes on a hermit crab's consciousness roll immediately after saying "watch me fail this"
@@joelaugustin6407 Been there done that, but with a WH40k Power Field back I'm 2E... 2+ on a d6... I mean it's a 1/6 not a 1/36 chance but I feel ya'... Also, this is why I ALWAYS call them ROCKET launchers not MISSile launchers....
The Phoenix Hawk: the Medium that acts like a Light.
Like the Cicada, but actually good.
@@MrFleem I think Cicada will be better.
@@MrFleemcicada is just so miss built it's crazy. It has potential in it's role but it doesn't have a good variant.
@derrichtigearzt8932 the one with the PPC is okay. It needs a lot more armor, but eh.
And it was good at its job
The premiere mech for bullying lights.
Cold Truth.
Frog gets mad when Mechs lose their jump. That seems on brand.
Truth.
I do unholy things with mech design in HBS's Battletech game, I've stripped the jump jets off of a Wolverine to fit six extra SRM tubes while one bay over a Zeus was having jump jets retro fitted to it.
The Phoenix Hawk is the iconic Light Commander Mech. Hits hard and fast enough to catch up with light mechs.
A solid pick. All around.
The Phoenix Hawk 2K is one of my favourite "that chunk of the timeline where things are getting more advanced but you still have mostly introtech" IS mechs around. I field it whenever it feels appropriate, even when it's not ideal.
I'd hate it but, it works without that XL.
@@MechanicalFrog I'm not fond of IS XLs, and not having one makes the 2K a shockingly tough little striker
@@MechanicalFrog I felt pretty similarly, but after playing a Campaign with one in my company for about a year now, it's really grown on me. Feels like an upsized Wolfhound, for better or worse.
My personal favorite of that era is the TDR-7M. Way too many folks went crazy for those XLs. The TDR-7M is a perfect upgrade package.
@@WolfHreda 100%, that and the Archer 4M/4M2 are superb.
On Twitter I called it the mech of the brave and the dead. High performance well armed for its size and used by many aces, but a mech that very often demands a certain amount of recklessness to pilot well. Its a mech I literally learned on playing megamek with my early scout lances and became a part of some of my greatest victories. Once got some one to surrender after I threatened some one's archer fire line after wiping out its body guard and won a con event with the PXH-3PL which has become my favorite variant to this day due to this. Its also a mech that its recklessness will get it killed many a time taking a chance often gets it head shot due to its low armor on the head in the base models. Literally shot the head and salvaged one In the campaign just completed. Bar none one of my favorite mechs and often a must for my scout lances.
As the first mech I ever fielded, and continue to love to this day, I can say with authority that you get REAL GOOD at risk assessment when running one in your lance.
But do it right and holy shit you can be a terror...or an annoyance.
By far my favorite medium mech and consistently in my top 3 of all mech weight classes! My best game of battletech ever was a 5 player, free-for-all Solaris death match. The other guys were all piloting heavy or assault mechs and laughed when I decided to bring my little 3K Phoenix Hawk to the fight. In their minds, ju,p jets were a waste of tonnage that could have been better used with heat sinks or armor. However, their tones changed when I managed to stick to the high ground and they just couldn't pin me down. The fight began with a pair of boxcars from my pulse lasers which blew the head off of the Atlas player's mech. They chalked it up to luck, but that soon changed. The Archer player chased me over a high bridge, and I casually reminded him of the bridge's 50 ton weight limit, and the 7 levels of falling damage to his back resulted in his ammunition cooking off on both side torsos. The last 2 had been slugging it out while ignoring me, and by the time there was a winner, his 5S Marauder was too badly damaged to put up much of a fight, and I was able to finish him off with a large laser hit which took out his side torso and the XL engine.
Needless to say, their opinions on faster, jump-capable mechs quickly changed after that fight!
I will never forgot my last game with it, testing my Aces campaign, me in a PHX-1kk, first shot the enemy makes a thru armor crit to my fire control, the proceeds to leave me alone, rest of allies flee off board near the end, and there is one enemy in strike range and I want that VP, so I jumped behind the damaged Valkyrie and said “I guess we do it the charger way and made a physical attack to his rear that got a crit and destroyed him. I will remember that for a long time.
Excellent PH moment!
I won't say this is the best striker 'mech the Inner Sphere ever produced, because I don't have to. The Phoenix Hawk speaks loudly enough for itself.
Well there you go. :D
@@MechanicalFrog I've loved the Pixie ever since I started playing in the early 2000s. It might not be the easiest 'mech to get the best out of, but in the hands of a patient mechwarrior, it's lethal.
Phoenix Hawks are a mech that excels in lances of mixed weight grades. They're not a primary mech for any role, but can fill in on almost any other role at need, serving as a useful backup in case the primary mech for a role is destroyed or somehow tied up. The mech isn't just a light mech killer either, it has the mobility and firepower to absolutely wreck even well-armored, ground bound medium battlemechs. I've done some bad things to Hunchbacks and Kintaros in my time running this mech.
the PXH-9 Phoenix Hawk is a great upgrade, those Improved Jump Jets letting it jump 8 hexes for 4 heat
The Phoenix Hawk is a fantastic mech for beginers to learn heat management and jump jets.
It's quick and efficient in what it is supposed to do or it's scrap.
In Merc unit, my model collection. The 3 most common Mechs are Wasps, Warhammers, and Phoenix Hawk. Followed by Rifleman, Archer & Locust.
Nice bunch of mechs.
looking at the 3M: "hmm, the MG seems useless - why not rip it out and-"
*3D variant busts in through the wall, kool-aid man style* "YOU RANG???"
Exactly.
Oh yeah!
My son used a -3S to solo a Black Knight. It was beautiful. Got behind it quickly, shredded the rear armor, then as the Knight tried to flee to a woodline, my son kicked on the Supercharger and, well, super-charged. From the front one would have effectively seen a Phoenix Hawk emerge chest-burster style from the Black Knight.
That's how it's done.
You know you done good if you can make a Black Knight flee in terror LMAO.
I never realized that the Phoenix Hawk had so many laser variants! I much prefer those to the typical "missile boat" configuration that I thought it was always confined to being. An all-ballistic load-out is fine as long as you have ammo to fire. It's just always felt to me to be a mech functioning on borrowed time.
Scout Scalper.
I particularly like them with a Snubnose PPC ( and a capacitor ) as the main weapon.
Ooo nasty. I run mine with a Arrow IV and a PPC-X in Mechwarrior 5. Makes quick work of lights and other mediums and can even make some short work of Heavies and Assaults as long as you got some LRM missile boats backing it up.
I'm running the 3S, having swapped the AMS and its ammo for a Guardian and an extra double heat sink, making me heat neutral. Probably my favorite moment was jumping back while firing at the ammo car of a rail=mounted Long Tom, turning that railway into a crater.
Hmm... I approve of this.
The best part about the MF variants is that even though I don't really play the tabletop game outside of the random tabletop RPG campaign, I can usually recreate the build in the HBS BattleTech: RogueTech mod.
Yes!
I don't run this sucker often, but man I always love the art of it. It's just one of those ones that lends itself to those action hero shots.
Very true.
"...a 50-cal machine gun for personal use"
I know the text said anti-personnel.
But I still thought it was hilarious!
Same thing.
One of my favorites phoenix hawks are fun.
Lots of fun.
"RUclips's number one BattleTech's hip-hop, country, fusion artist." - Love the humor and well told content as always. Thanks Man!!
Thank you for putting up with the nonsense.
@@MechanicalFrog I rather enjoy it as many others do. Cheers Brother!
In my last game of Alpha Strike, my Phoenix Hawk 3PL got first blood, obliterating a Locust from medium range.
Glad to hear it. RIP Locust.
Its always been good, but over time and tech improvements just seemed to make successive generations better than the last.
Agreed.
Ah the 'Hero Mech', asking the real question:
Does it look cool?
As a fan of the old "now ok to be seen" anime 'inspired' mechs this thing will always have a place in the meta of my heart.
rule of cool is very important.
The Phoenix Hawk is the mech against which all scouts and scout hunters is measured for a reason, and in my first Mechwarrior RPG campaign, both the regular and LAM variants of the Phoenix Hawk were my character's mounts of choice, though in his case they'd been customized a bit.
Ah, the Phoenix Hawk. I remember seeing the original official artwork for the mech and thinking "Oh, they have a full-armor Macross Super Valkyrie in Battroid mode!"
Heh.
Literally true.
FASA licensed the artwork.
@@dwwolf4636 It was legal up until Harmony Gold wanted its pound of flesh
It's a great mech in their standard configuration and give a good amount of room for customization. That's why we love it. 👍
Absolutely
I had only one glorious win with my custom Phoenix Hawk on the tabletop. I joined a pub game that was in process at my local game shop. I was late to join and the table needed a 5th player. The other 4 players soaked up the tonnage limit with assaults because they didn't have a full star. All that was left was 45 tons. So Phoenix Hawk it is. The 4 tables were set up end to end with the terrain looked like this: Starting point Mountainous that stretched half the first table. Then it leads down into an open plain of farms for the last half. The second table is a 36-hex river crossing with 3 bridges. 2 out of 3 were destroyed. After the river crossing another open terrain that leads to an Airbase. At the final 2 tables was an awesome cityscape design as a death trap. Before I joined the other players made it to the city half busted up. The final objective was to destroy the government building and its defenders. The Omni Mechs shined on this scenario when resupplying at certain completed stages that the other player completed. Instead of starting at the beginning. The GM did a series of rolls to determine my start point and try to catch up to the rest. I started on the other side of the 36 hex river crossing. So I had to haul ass. By the time I got there. Half the players were down. The remaining enemies were two Atas, a Marauder, two Crabs, and 3 pulse laser /SRM turrets.
My Pilot Card was Gun: 7 Pilot: 8 Guts: 4 Tactics: 6 with the abilities: Hot Dog, Jumping Jack, and Marksman.
This is my Phoenix Hawk build.
Phoenix Hawk PXH-OZ
BV: 2,109 Cost: 11,149,340 C-bills
Chassis: (clan)Endo Steel Armor: 7 tons of Ferro-Fibrous / Internal: 75 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 134/153 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Power Plant: Clan 225 XL Movement: 5/8(10)/4 Double Heat Sinks: 10 [23] Gyro: Standard Gyro HEAT: 26/23
Weapons:
1x (clan) ER PPC
2x ATM 3 one in LL and RL (A ton of High-Explosive ATM/3 Ammo in the LT 20 shots /2= 10 shot each)
1x ATM 6 in the RA (1 ton of Extended-Range and High-Explosive ATM/6 in the RT & LT 20 shots each)
Equipment:
Targeting Computer [Clan] (Clan) in the LT
Active Probe [Clan] (Clan) in the HD
MASC (Clan) in the RT
Partial Wing (Clan) (Clan) LT& RT
Design Quirks: The Improved Targeting, Multi-Trac, and Nimble Jumper
When I engaged my active probe showed me how damaged the enemy was. The one Atlas was barely touched and had Gauss Rifles. I targeted him first and got an epic cockpit kill at a range of 21 with 4 ATM/3 hits and the ER PPC. The other Atlas is halved with only 2 large lasers and SRMs. While the Marauder had no more armor on both side torsos. I unleashed my ATM/6 on him and it was enough to down him as it had IS XL engine. A hell of a good start. The turrets turn battered the other two players crippling one of them and the Crab was out of the arch of the two players but the crippled player managed to land an LBX20 Shot on the crab's leg and crit out the upper leg. The other player unloaded on the Atlas and missed half their shots. In-kind the Atlas does so as well, then finishes him with a Battle fist to the CT in the melee round. I on the movement phase I had to close in as I couldn't hit shit. Then in my run, I hit a hidden mech mine that nearly took off my leg! 1 armor point remained but it crit disabled my ATM3. ("Thanks Bros! For no telling me that there is a minefield..") I used the last of my movement to JJ onto a building and got LOS on the turrets and the two mechs. The Crab and Atlas moved to take up defensive cover right next to the Government building and turrets. Crippled Bro and Turrets can't do anything during the movement phase.
Firing Phase: The Crab alpha strike at me and only landed a large laser hit on my CT. The Atlas fired on the crippled bro and didn't do enough damage. Crippled Bro get lucky again with his LBX20! Lands a crits on the main engine almost sending it popping. Witnessing this with my active probe on my turn I targeted everything on the remaining critical point on the Atlas's CT. With all the bonuses to gunnery. Everything landed in the CT taking out the gyro with it. The Atas goes nuke taking out the two turrets, severely damaging the Crab, and the government building collapses on the crab crushing it with its debris. Mission Complete! Shortly after the build fell. We hear that there is going to be a saturation bombardment of the city targeted on our location by Arrow IV's and Long Toms! We have two turns to escape the city. With my speed, it's doable. I picked up Crippled Bro Pilot and ran. Then my MASC Roll fails. 6 hexes from the edge of the city. The shells an Arrow IV start randomly impacting the city. A long tom clipped my mech dealing 20 damage to my right side! RA was gone, 8 Points of armor left on the RT, and RL as taken 1 internal! As a last-ditch effort JJ through a building to get to the other side to land on the airbase runway taxiway. Causing Damage to my LL that took 2 internal damage. Then with 5 hex movement, I cleared the city and made it back to the supply point.
That was the end of that other people in the shop were cheering me on as they watched and congratulated the other players and GM for a great display. After that I was standing for more than 5 hours during that time and I rushed to the bathroom because I had to pee badly. lol
*3 series suffered from the change of construction rules with the disallowing of 1/4 tons for endo steel and xl engines
My favorite story with the Phoenix Hawk on the tabletop was in my first ever tabletop game of BattleTech (only a few months ago as of typing), I insta-killed an Atlas by blowing up all its ammo.
It was AWESOME!
This is my absolute favorite mech. Thank you for covering it!
Glad you like it!
Ah my favorite mech of all time. I had a great build for it that "fixes" the Royal variant. Remove the ER Large Laser. Replace the two medium lasers on the arms with Medium Pulse Lasers and add another one to the head. Drop the machine gun ammo to half a ton and spend the leftover 1 and a half tons on boosting its armor. The thing performs like you would not believe.
Removing an ER Large Laser usually fixes multiple problems.
@@MechanicalFrog ER Large can be great weapons in the right circumstances but that much wasted overheated armament is just sad.
The LAM contingent formally thanks you for your courtesy and we eagerly await your groovy hip hop country tunes.
*phew*
Why do we love the Phoenix Hawk? It's one of the first ten 'Mechs dating all the way back to BattleDroids. It's based on the SVF-1 Super Veritech from Robotech, where many of us were introduced to anime... however poorly. The luckier among us got to see it as the Super Valkrye of Super Dimensional Fortress Macross instead.
It's a medium mech that, by it's very existence, puts a lot of pressure on light mechs by being just as fast and maneuverable, but is better armed and armored than most. It's also a great command mech for a light lance.
I know it's not the first time you've called it this, but I'm laughing at "emotional support small laser"
It's becoming a bit of a channel expectation.
Necessary
If it's in the head it's an anti-pigeon laser, then again that tends to refer to clan small lasers in the head.
Every IS light mech pilot checks under their bed for phoenix hawk.
The Phoenix Hawk cannot harm you.
The Phoenix Hawk: [[SCREECHING]]
The PXH-9 with its improved jump jets peaks my interest - if any mech can put improved jump jets to good use, it's the Pheonix hawk.
The 6D variant seems like fun too - having an accurate sniper rifle seems like a good way to lose friends!
My first battlemech was the unseen phoenix hawk. Always had a soft spot for the mech since.
P hawk baby!! Love this mech. My very first mech I ever used in the game. I ran out so much I had to buy two in the late 80s. Such a beautiful versatile medium mech.
Agreed. A very solid pick.
Woooo! Praise Zorg gentlemen! The hammer of light mechs has finally arrived!
Let them flee in terror...
I had a character that LOVED his PH, but hated 1Ks and would go out of his way to hunt them at any and all opportunities - getting sever reprimands on occasion. If she had not been an amazing scout and shot. ... her PH slowly got upgraded with this and that but mostly it was patchwork repairs.. her favorite was when she had to replace her engine and squeezed a 275 in - which the Wolverine and Griffin pilots welcomed her to the gang and the three got into a LOT of mischief on and off the battle field.
part of me always thought that how some designs were so ubiquitous that possibly they were more like the LRM/SRM carriers... they were a design philosophy - All "Stingers" were 20 tns 6/9/6 bi pedal with 2MG and ML installed in said locations...etc...
another great video
Heh, thanks. Poor 1ks...
My first 'hawk was a -6D. My pilot was part of a merc unit on campaign, fighting against Clan machines. We mvanaged to survive the first few fights and even a three-fight stint without my PPC after it was destroyed. My tech crew managed to salvage a clan-tech ER-PPC and install it. That was followed by replacement of the 4 ER-Mediums with a pair of clan-tech medium pulse lasers. I had a lot of fun with that machine. 🙂
With 45 tonners being my favorite and my specialty, I'm really happy to see the Phoenix Hawk. I did pass over it at first, but it's slowly warmed up on me. It feels like the Vindicator in that it strikes that balance of power and defense, albeit while using different proportions. I also think it's worth mentioning that all the -1 needs from a Helm upgrade is DHS and it goes from notable to scary. You could even swap the Large for an ER Large and still get only +1 heat from jumping.
I do have a refit proposal for the Pheonix Hawk, and I can do it briefly. It's basically a IS tech version of the P-hawk C. To do this, I pulled out the Large Laser, 1/2 ton of MG ammo, 1/2 ton of armor, and a jump jet. Armor and structure get upgraded to Endo and Ferro, and the engine is switched to a light version. Each arm gets a Medium Laser and a Machine gun. Each side torso gets a Light AC/5, one ton of autocannon ammo, and CASE. Your choice on which bin gets the MG ammo. Heat stinks are standard, as they aren't totally necessary. If you do want the sixth jump jet, you can probably shave a little armor off instead. All and all, I think it's a side-grade at best, but it's a fun idea.
Well, my favorite version is obviously me. Though a LAM, not a base model, I still like me. By the War of 3039, I was just armed with two standard large lasers. Mostly because double heat sinks and the conversion equipment. The Clantech we managed to get from the Falcons meant I got back to a bit more firepower. 2 Clantech ER Large, 2 Clantech medium pulse lasers, and room for a Clantech LRM 10. Unfortunately, the old body finally got damaged beyond repair in 3056, with nobody making repair kits for LAM conversions. That’s when I upgraded to the IIC body. Even managed to get the weapons in, and space for a Clantech Ultra AC5. It looks weird to me, sticking past the right side of my head.
I love that the Phoenix Hawk is a metric by which light mechs are judged. If the Phoenix Hawk hits you in the leg with its large laser…will it still be there? Or will you be an 85kph tumbling hunk of metal? Hmmmmmmm.
Tough standard.
The best thing about the PXH is that you can get a full 4 mechs lance and paint them in all the EVA colors
Or the Phoenix Hawk, a light mech that weighs as much as a medium.
Deep thoughts for a Friday morning.
Hello Frog.
Another good video, my friend. Yes, there are a plethora of Phoenix Hawk variants out there. Most of which I would only field in dire extremist.
On the other hand, there are several, as you have mentioned, that are 'worth their salt' in battle.
Both you and I have come up with variants on this classic Mech. I plan to 'yoink' your design for testing soon. Meanwhile, perhaps you'll test out mine.
The PHX-3M-GL was based upon the PHX-3M (Masters) variant. Due to issues with procurement, and battle damage when attempting to repair the Mech out of the supplies available to my Union Class Drop-ship, the SRM-4s had to be yanked, along with their ammo. Enough weight was 'saved' and used to add 2 tons of armoring, an additional IS-DSHS, and finally, 4 more Machine Guns.
I 'tested' this variant against someone who was unfamiliar with my penchant for very fast Mechs, and Jump capable ones. Two turns of running the Mech onto and further into the field of battle, somehow, convinced the foe that I was using one of the Kurita variants without jump jets. He, thus, made the mistake of allowing me to close upon his Mech to the point that I was able to leap behind him and 'Alpha Strike' his rear armor.
It was only post battle that I found out that he had shaved down his rear armor to increase his Mech's arm armor protection. So, 1 ER Lrg Laser, 2 Med Lasers, and FIVE MG shots later, and his Mech was headed to the ground. Back smoking and gyro ripped to shreds.
Even with the Targeting Computer installed into his Mech, the opponent was only able to score light hits as my Mech closed. The 'kill' was totally unexpected, since I thought I would have to win the initiative to enable a 2nd back strike to get the same result. I'll take the blessing of the dice gods and not complain (all except one MG hit center torso, and that one hit the Head).
The 1D is probably my favorite canon variant. Your MF model is nice, too.
My Phoenix hawk ISM is based on the Phoenix Hawk C, though it is a mixed tech platform. Most of it is Clan tech, excluding the IS TSM. It mounts a partial wing along with 6 improved jump jets, and carries a light active probe in the head. For punch it carries an IS large re-engineered laser in the right arm along with a Clan micro pulse laser. Its left arm also has a micro pulse laser, but has a standard medium laser with it. A second medium laser is carried in the CT.
Gotta love the hawk, it’s always served me well as a counter to clan lights and a backstabbing threat with those jump jets. A lot of variants are nicely punchy too
Clan pulses eat it pretty quickly.
Me in the process of painting a Phoenix Hawk and seeing this in my feed. It was meant to be.
Indeed...
This is easily my favorite BattleMech in TRO:3025. It is also, bar none, the most overpowered ‘Mech in HBS BATTLETECH, due to the non-simultaneous weapons fire and built-in advantages. I can solo any mission in the vanilla game without taking a scratch using the PHX-1b with the right build.
More recently, the Phoenix Hawk C 2 is excellent, preserving the strengths while minimizing weaknesses (in particular, ammo that might cook off when pushing the heat envelope before jumping behind cover). I prefer to swap the AP Gauss Rifles for Micro Pulse Lasers, which allows me to include some electronics as well.
Ah yes, my favourite flanker in the HBS Battletech game and my favourite starter mech was the Kobold variant in MW5
Ah yes, the phawk tuah. I'm gonna love it no matter what, the IS version of the shadow cat, the little annoying bugger that you can't catch but is gonna getcha if it gets the chance. What it can't outgun it can outrun, what it can't outrun it can outgun generally. It's fully a loner flanker mech, filling no role but getting itself where it needs to be, it's got all the character for that and I love it all the more for it.
Love it. Not a great scout, but a fantastic skirmisher and scout killer.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot it was Shin Yodama's Phoenix Hawk being harassed by Elementals on the cover of Lethal Heritage.
Both a Plasma Rifle _and_ a Partial Wing? MechFrog, you tease!
I know what the audience wants.
My 3025 variant drops the MGs and 2 JJs for 1 ton more armor and 2 heatsinks, and with my play style I have had very good results with it.
While watching the video I was thinking "I'd put Partial Wing on it" and that what's you did with Mech Frogs variant.
For nearly any mech with Jump Jets a Partial Wing just makes sense(well to me at least)
"I can put wings on this..." said every time.
I love my phoenix hawk in Mechwarrior 5. One of the most fun mechs to play, and in some missions can solo the entire thing.
Still running nice and cool in the campaign we've been playing. Love this command mech.
Forget light ‘Mechs, I usually use a Phoenix Hawk to hunt assaults. The only armor that matters is rear armor.
As it turns out, the PHX-LAM is a wonderful machine as long as you equip it with Clan-spec weapons. Then again, just about any LAM is "fixed" with the introduction of clan weapons and Double Heat Sink kits.
Great video on my favorite intro tech mech!
Glad you like it!
One of those mechs that is far easier and more enjoyable to use than to spell it's name. Kerensky bless you dear P Hawk.
That C2 is a BEAST. I'm honestly surprised that it's not the MechFrog go to unit.
I like it a lot.
I have never had a Phoenix Hawk do me wrong. I, however, have done it wrong so many times. Something about the firepower and the jump jets, gives me a sense of “invulnerability” that always gets proven wrong, in often spectacular fashion.
I like to drop the LL for ER mediums later in the time line and add sinks and armor.
It becomes a very scary light hunter and medium harrasser.
I approve of this.
@@MechanicalFrog is that the mech frog "seal" or frog of approval
I know you can’t cover all of variants but I’m honestly surprised you didn’t include the 3PL.
It is a short ranged version but having a LPL and 2 MPL WITH a targeting computer is nothing to sneeze at. Get behind another mech and watch them sweat.
I also like how jumping is basically negated entirely by the -3.
It can jump 6 and fire all three pulse lasers without going red.
Also totally energy based
My first exposure to Battletech was Decision at Thunder Rift so Durant Carlyle's Phoenix Hawk was the first Mech I saw in action. I love the D line of variants, and I'm hoping for an IlClan era Phoenix Hawk D to come soon.
I always remove the 3D's Anti-Missile system and either add three more double Heat sinks or two more double heat sinks and a ton of armor. Edit: The last modification basically turns it into a 3K actually now that I think about it.
Also your in video stats list the 2K as having 6 Jump Jets which they lack if I remember correctly.
Yep. forgot to pull those jumpjets on that slide.
Yeah, another classic getting covered by MF, as always a great video!
Love it, it being on the cover of The Crescent Hawk's Inception is what got me into BT! It's a quintessential Hero Mech, like a Victor. In Universe however, I like the idea of your heros looking for a Phoenix Hawk and finding a beat up Chameleon instead!
I just posted a full clanner tech version of the P-hawk, if you wanna see the full clan tech version of the Chameleon I can link it to you :)
Did Inception have a release with the PH on the cover? I remember a locust.
I have to say you unintentionally convinced me to try to do the 4L (granted the character one that has an Clan ER Large Laser instead of IS one) and it's fun to do a Phoenix Hawk that can sniper while making it hard for your opponent to hit you back with that Stealth Armor.
Also it was a game where I wanted to learn how to use Stealth Armor because I am a Capellan fan lol.
I hope it produces for you.
@@MechanicalFrog It helped a little yeah. It was a 7K BV ffa game with my main heavy lifters being the Cataphract and Vindicator 4L. The Phoenix Hawk didn't do much damage but did enough help to force a Nightstar to fail two of its three piloting rolls it needed to take.
Must get one sometime. It seems like a really good, capable mech.
Thanks for the great video, MechFrog!
The PHX is a tough, speedy and dangerous scout leader/ scout hunter. Also rounds out a medium lance for screening heavy/ assult mechs and as part of a flanking force.
The phoenix hawk might be THE mercenary mech in the medium bracket.
Highly flexible, highly maneuverable, packs a decent punch, readily available and very upgradable over the years.
The phoenix hawk fills any role you can imagine a medium mech should be capable of: Heavy scout, anti infantry, anti vehicle, bodyguard for heavier units, guerilia warfare.. you name it the phoenix hawk can pull it of. The biggest issue is heat managment, though wich 3025 design doesnt have heat issues?
The phoenix hawk is a great addition to any medium mech or even as a command mech of a scout lance. If its in the salvage pile, grab it!
Definitely a solid choice.
"THE" is a pretty heavy word. As a scout, sure, but most mercs are going to be looking for something more rounded. Like the four members of the 55 Trinity.
@@tenchraven Debatable since the 55 tonners have terrible weapon loadouts The Shadowhawk has a schizophrenic ammo based weapons loadout that leaves it underperforming in most scenarios. The wolverine while agile also has rather lackluster firepower that mostly relies on ammo. The griffon has heavy armor but is allmost defenseless at close range.
The phoenix hawk is flexible, packs a decent punch, can deal with infantry, is fast and maneuverable and only needs machine gun ammo for its secondaries wich you can get at every corner in the IS or periphery.
Its this flexibility, ease on maintenance and logistics and overall effectiveness on the battlefield no matter the situation that makes me say that its THE medium mech any merc unit should try to get its hands on. Cause most merc units wont be able to afford more then 12 mechs aka 3 lances aka a regiment, so you have to get the most bang for your buck (if you have the choice, especially in 3025 there isnt that much of an open market for battlemechs)
This is a mech whose effectiveness is polarizing, especially between models, and even which type of big stompy metal carnage you're engaging in (the tabletop rules of Battletech vs the action game mechanics of Mechwarrior).
Personally, it is a love-hate affair for me, based entirely on which game I'm playing. It certainly doesn't lack for mobility, which is a big plus for a Light Mech jockey like me, who prefers the speedier side of things to raw firepower most of the time. In this, the PXH does not disappoint.
In my experience, the Phoenix Hawk's effectiveness largely boils down to those arms and how long they last, because on most models, all the firepower is located there. (Clanners raised on batchall-via-OmniMech will feel right at home.)
For a light mech hunter and premier skirmisher mech, this design decision makes a lot of sense as being able to quickly and precisely direct most (usually all) of your firepower at one point is essential when firing at fast moving targets or when making attacks on the run. However, this is the classic "putting all your eggs in one basket" design and the relative lack of armor on the arms of most canonical configurations of the Phoenix Hawk makes this a mech for bold pilots.
In MWO, experienced pilots will take advantage of this by targeting one aim or one leg in particular. Clever pilots running the Phoenix Hawkwill combine Torso Twist Speed skills with the usual Armor skills to more reliably spread damage across the side torsos by twisting through volleys of fire as their opponents try to exploit their weakness. This resulted in hilarious duels between Phoenix Hawks as both pilots would engage in bouts of tilt-o-whirl laser spam and jump jetting madness; each pilot desperately trying to land precise damage on the other's weak spot even as they twisted and ran and jumped to mitigate the damage.
I don't remember who said it, but one person back on the Piranha forums likened these duels to two children playing flashlight tag, trying to blind the other all while constantly looking away to avoid the gaze of their opponent's beam.
We don't really see that anymore after the Clans came to MWO, but...ah fun times.
On the PvE side of things In MW5: The Phoenix Hawk is a very solid performer; basically an upgunned Firestarter (or Commando).
Though I generally don't prioritize it as salvage early on unless nothing better is available, or I have excess shares. It's not because the mech is bad, but because the game classifies it as a Medium, and in most expanded content via mods (Coyotes, or DLC) there are missions that specifically call for Light mechs, and the Raven and Jenner just do its job in those better despite Phoenix Hawks having broadly superior performance in everything but raw speed and mech profile.
That said, I have been known to meme it up with refurbished PXH-2Bs sporting a quartet of Light PPCs once those become available.
Makes for good training with PPCs and getting a hang of the shot velocity vs amount of lead you need.
It's a good mech for Light PPCs.
Captured a nice variant in Rogue tech. FIERY FURY
RA firefist battle fist. Tsm and enhanced reinforced actuators in all limbs.
LA snub ppc w capacitor pirate (basically a lbx ppc) and shield.
Supercharger and improved jjs. Frame heavy reinforced. Armor kaellin(sp?) ultra light FF.
PWS with rear facing ct fusion flamer.
Head dragon's breath and death stare laser array.
To make room and save a ton - adv sm cockpit clan.
Clan ecm and active probe. (LT)
Backing up LA snubbie was a Disco laser array in RT
RA had 2 sm pulses and laser ams
Patchwork covered both torsos to cover the light engine better.
The other named phawk I didnt get to loot was AA oriented (and really good at BA squad wiping) had 2 QS LBX lg lasers. 2 med pulses. 4 lmgs clan (that's just 1 ton) and a TC with AA bc, heat bc, and energy bc.
Unfortunately it had to have failed every roll possible.
I hit it with a golden BB, I guess, core pen crit, engine containment failure, ammo explosion, and self deletion from loot table.
i.e. Full Stackpole killed the lone BA still swarming it that only had an ap gauss. (That mech deleted 4 of 5 in that squad/star the previous round. Damned QS lbx large lasers and tc/bc combos)😮
My BA carrying APCs were just open boxes after that explosion. Never got to deploy other squad.
DRT in bay, undeployed.
Never enough flamers...
PHX, a true legend. I enjoy pairing the PHX-9 with the Eris, Griffin.
That's a good team up.
I have the Ral Partha metal model (with both back jump jets) and 2 of the plastic ones. They just used the same mold. The Catalyst model looks more like a man-in-a-suit than an 11 meter Mech.
Love it all the same.
I have the plastic, but the jump jets were lost long ago. Tragic.
My favorite variant is the 3PL. It feels like a refinement and upgrade to the original that delivers harder strikes while not needing to run as often to cool off. I also like needing to figure out to use it danger close to get the most out of its weapons.
But I like pretty much all the variants, so long as they keep jump jets. Because of Phoenix Hawk without jump jets is like a Hunchback with CASE.
Great video! One of the better mechs out there. Looking forward to more videos.
More to come! Thank you.
The PHX-3PL and the PHX-4M are probably my preferred variants at this point. Though personally I don't really 'love' the Phawk as much as other medium mechs.
i think this MF variant may be my favorite yet. it lacks the dakka or explosions i usually adore, but jump jets and a partial wing bring me back to my days playing the palladium robotech rpg with friends after school, and the plasma rifle and lasers promise to be great fun
So the reason the 3M comes in half a ton overweight is there was a rules change well after TR 3050 was published. The rules change caused weight saving equipment to be rounded up to the nearest half ton rather than truly halved. When first published the 3M's Endo steel frame and XL engine came in at 2.25 tons and 7.25 tons respectively. When the rules change hit it pushed those weights up to 2.5 and 7.5 tons, leaving the 3M a half ton overweight.
several times in this video you described Greyson Caryle piloting a Phoenix Hawk when it was actually a Shadow Hawk he was using.
Grayson Carlyle’s father piloted a Phoenix Hawk. That's who I reference in the video.
The stat listing you have for the 2K (at 15:29) lists 6 Jump Jets, even though the movement profile shows 6/9/0 & your voice over mentions "sacrificing those precious Jump Jets"
I've also noticed small errors like that occasionally in a few previous Why Do We Love... episodes. Not a big deal, these are great & it's amazing how fast you get through 'Mechs, considering all the novel excerpts & variants
Looks like you caught a bug. Luckily, I only make mistakes on days that end in Y.
@@MechanicalFrog I'm surprised it got past you; frogs are great at catching bugs.
Every once in a while, they sneak by.
Worthy ❤the Phenix
Awww yeah! I’ve been excitedly waiting for one of my favorite derpy mechs! Thanks for another great holovid!
Glad I could give it some limelight.
Ah, Phoenix Hawk. Best med mech of tech readout 3025.
One of the better ones, for sure.
The perfect 3025 command mech (especially the -1D) for your light recon lance, as protection against light mech killers (Jenners, Assassins, etc.)
Because it's the PHOENIX HAWK!!!
My favorite Phoenix Hawk pilot is Roy Fokker.
Ah a fan of Macross I see. Welcome! 😎
This is the Mech I am the most glad has emerged from "the unseen" debacle
Much cherished.
I like the Phoenix Hawk because its a great specialized mech. Its a high-speed scout and scout-hunter. It lacks a well-rounded weapons package like a Centurion which makes them pretty good as a 1-2 combo.
3025 is full of flawed mechs and the Phoenix Hawk isnt really one of them. Its easy to upgrade too. Just make small changes like upgrade to Small Pulse Laser, ER Medium Lasers, and a ER Large Laser.
Now unfortunately its got a ugly offspring, the Phoenix Hawk IIC, which is entirely on the opposite side of the spectrum. Its a clan "upgrade" assault mech that adds on another 35tons. Its variants are almost totally dependent on alpha striking with limited ammunition/heat sinks. Its way too expensive to function as a garrison unit, and its not an omnimech either. From the Phoenix Hawk IIC's lore, it was a trick by Clan Diamond Shark/Sea Fox to sell mechs and then require customers to keep buying ammunition too.
The Phoenix hawk is my favorite mech. I love how HBS depicts it with the head that is a cross between master chief from halo and Gypsy Danger from Pacific Rim. I love other versions of it with the cool engine pods on the back. I do not love it with machine gun ammo because light armor + easy to hit ammo - CASE = a lost mech warrior
It might just be in the hbs game regardless of if is only on with BEX or BTA3062 but I love it with 8 IJJ and 4 or 5 er medium lasers (depending on how much heat they make in that mod) for backstabbing and most crucially C3S, XL engine, endo, clan spec FF and as much armor as I can fit. It might have a serious lack of firepower for a 45 tonner, but it is crazy mobility, and great armor means it can provide range for units. Most crucially with that lack of weaponry it will not be as much of a primary, *if* i ever find a physical location to play this game. Overall I find myself continuing to create this build as it is fast, durable enough, and not worth the effort for the enemy to remove from the field immediately.
My only experience with Battletech come from the Harebrained Schemes game, so I can't say anything about the tabletop or the variants, but in that game I always thought that the Phoenix Hawk was a solid mech. It had a good enough combination of mobility, firepower, and just enough armor to tank a few hit if needed. Nothing exceptional, but a solid all-rounder.
The Phoenix Hawk is great in HBS BT. A great early and mid-game mech.