Are Hookless Wheels Safe?
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
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Never made any sense to me, would never ride hookless.
I will never own hookless road wheel full stop
It seems to only be happening to lotto! Movistar rides Zipp. UAE rides hookless ENVE. Those riders don’t have this issue. Lotto must be doing something wrong.
On the foam inserts, in riding them for a long time, they really push the tyre against the rim hook. Perhaps without hooks it is an added force pushing the tyre off the rim?
I’ve got hookless and haven’t died yet.
Yet.
Me too!
Oh well, still time. Death and taxes, unless in I, then forget the taxes.
same here. zipp's recommended pressure has always been like 10 psi less than the rim's limit and I'm a heavyweight rider. not sure why these lightweight pro riders pump their tires beyond 72 psi.
@@SonnyDarvishzadeh they don’t???
Hambini pointed out something no one else has. The 454 NSW sidewall he looked at, was very flexible. Thinking it’s the lightweight carbon hookless wheels that have blowoff issues. Maybe because the rim sidewall is simply too flexible to hold straight under pressure.
Agree 💯%. Product designers and manufacturers should count with user errors and more so if user errors can lead to injuries.
I've heard that 5 year old Hambini made some sort of investigation on this case
You guys SHOULD look at the comments, they are your audiance and there have already been said so much in the comments from the video's that you guys should know about and could clarify a lot of things!
@CadeMediaExtra I was looking at vittoria terreno tyre (they are marked hooked rim) only. The bead is square and protrude out of side wall whereas the XC barzo mezcal bead are rounded and tangent to side wall. Michelin CX tubeless, conti terra trails, conti race king, pararacer slick have all rounded tangent bead.
Is the issue coming from vittoria squared bead on road /cx/ gravel tyres not seating properly on hookless rim?
I am riding hookless, I have had no issues with them, not even when touring fully loaded. In fact, swapping tires is a challenge, the tires sit so tight on the rims, the only way to get them off is to move the tirebead towards the deeper central groove, so in fact away from the rim. So I don't see tires coming off the rims spontaneously. Most likely the mechanic exceeded the pressure limit. And what is up with that ridiculous foam insert?
And there in lies the issue, there aren’t enough tolerances for errors or different tires etc. There is very little room for error. However you can run 60-130psi on a tubed clincher from 30 years ago on any tire of your choice without issue.
I find it interesting that no one points out the completely destroyed rim in the Strade Bianche picture right in the beginning.
The rim is severed left of the valve. So there is either a problem with the rim construction/stability that makes it very vulnerable to impacts or he hit something so hard that no other rim would have survived either.
Maybe it cracked at the edge of the reinforcement layers around the spoke hole.
You couldn't pay me to ride hookless my life is worth more to me than 30g or whatever it is weight saving.
Wasn't there also a problem with DeGent using a tire that was smaller than the recommended size for the rim? I thought I read this somewhere. Or vice versa.
I have been running hookless for gravel for years with zero issues.
So new bike has the exact Vittoria system with the air liners (fan of it on mountain bikes as it has got me out of a few pickles). Rims are ENVE foundation 45 hookless only. No issues yet but definitely don’t push the bike to the extremes that the pro teams do. Have been searching for updates about safety for a while now but no news. Anything since posting this video???
Dont piss off the mechanic who pumps up your tyres
Hookless - A cost cutting measure with no benefits that could cost you your life…
The industry - Why don’t you want them?!
I have been riding in all conditions and all road surfaces with zipp 303 firecrest wheels and have had absolutely no issue at all. It will be from setting them up wrong for sure
I use latex tubes for my road bike and tubeless on my gravel bike. No foam inserts.
Then maybe hooked rims with tubes or tubular?
Foam inserts for bicycle tires. Ridiculous world we live in
Makes a lot of sense for the rear wheel of a mountain bike if you ride bigger drops / jumps or are riding enduro/downhill on chunky terrain. For road racing, the idea of a "run flat" kind of system that could let you keep riding with a flat to not lose time has some appeal. But the myriad compatibility issues of tire / insert / wheel / accuracy of pumps or pressure gauges / etc is still more of an issue with hookless than with inserts.
Foam inserts are a no brainier for racing, especially races like roubaix where flats are rampant
Just use solid tyres. Why not.
Why the hell do you have inserts in road? I hate them in the mtb world. I think that they act like a volume spacer in suspension. So if you are still inflating your tyres to 100psi but you have reduced the volume of the tyre with a insert the ramp up of psi under compression will be much higher than without. I feel like that an impact to the wheel while running an insert will create more force being put through the rim hence why i see alot of mtb wheels cracked even tho they run inserts. Ban inserts terrible things they do nothing but make tyre swaps horrible. They do nothing to stop punchers and if you ride with a flat with an insert you weck the tyre so either way shite.
Watched this again, you're welcome @Cademedia. On second viewing, the level of FUD here is high.
I call BS.. I feel that in a similar scenario, when the an impact damaged the rim itself, the hook on the remaining 355 degrees of wheel would retain the tyre long enough to allow for safe operation.
Is there a hookless mtb rim and tire? How well it would held on xc all the way to freeride
If you’re dropping thousands on a race bike / wheels and do not own an accurate tyre presssure gauge then more fool you.
No.
Hookless designers didn’t think of the other variables like foam inserts, that average users r non-experts, that tire pressure changes due to temperature n road conditions esp on long road rides- seems like *road-hookless* was designed in a vacuum w the only variable attribute being monies saved -
I bought a set of carbon hookless 40H-24i custom build wheels six years ago.
For less then half the money of the Enve 34AR.
The selling point for going hookless then was the bigger volume plus the stronger construction of the rim sidewall
regarding impacts.
I was looking for a way to increase tire volume for my Supersix Evo Team Edition 2018 frame given the narrow space available & me being 6'3" / 1.91cm and 95 kg.
I used this wheel set on 622-28, 622-30 with Conti 4000/5000 & Veloflex Corsa Evo with great result.
All tubeless. Now using this same hookless set with 622-38 to 622-43 tires on my gravel/comuter bike.
Adding tire volume without adding to much tire width and gaining comfort & speed.
This provided me to lowering tire pressures and gaining even more comfort, speed & endurance.
Lowering tire pressure optimizes also the self sealing of a tubeless system.
Can not fault them even after six years, 40k kilometers..
Never needed no truing either.
For me, more tire volume only brings benefits.
I now also ride my Giant TCX cyclocrosser with this wheel set & 622-50 / 622-43 tires floating over sandy parcours..
Just great...
On narrow tubeless road tire sizes, like 622- 25 / -28 / -30 / -32 using a tire insert reduces the critical volume & pressure of the tire / hookless rim system necessary to seat the tubeless tire safely in all conditions.
Tubeless no problem, but just exploring all the study that goes into ETRTO standards and compatibility and subsequently picking the right wheel and tire for hookless is unparalleled to the simplicity of slapping on any tube/tire combination that approximately matches the rim ... that makes cycling for unnecessarily complicated for the end user, especially when the end result is failure and crashes, not just a pinched tube 15 meters into your ride.
When using your money to buy ... buy hooked ... sponsors can sometimes force riders to use whatever they want marketed.... then u win they say its the new wheelset that did it... then they are expensive. Hooked and clincher i remain.... thats where i spend my money. Then hookless you must stick to some pressure min and max..ohh
I trust hambini and he runs hooked with tpu tubes. So therefore it's my go to.
Technology like this should not be designed to potentially fail catastrophically due to user error. In my opinion max pressure for tires and rims should exceed the typical riding pressure by at least 50 %, and preferably by 100 %.
Still owning a 303, but will sell it soon. Never had a blow off so far, but surely terrifying to see news like this.
Not sure if ENVE has such frequent blow off or not, but zipp is definitely having a hard time recently. Honestly zipp is on the lighter side mostly because its rims are lighter than usual ones, especially for 353 and 454, they are probably right on the physical limit of how strong the rim should be, thus so many misshaps.
I read somewhere that zip initially blamed the mechanics / Vittoria putting on to bigger tyre than recommended. Trying to find hooked rims nowadays is difficult.
Tubs failed way more often than hookless but got nothing like the adverse publicicty
Ive ridden hookless for 3 years now, and not even a puncture, touch wood. The tyres are at the recommended pressure for my weight and ride really well. Not a problem.
imagine if people lost their shit this much over a brake pad spinning off the bracket and causing and accident once in a race too....?
lets not talk about how many times with saw tubulars f off the rim in a race ... but that was fine.
You don’t have to be an expert, just follow the guidelines for pressure. I believe Francis pointed out in a previous video there could be confusion because many customers have a long history of using road wheels with high pressure. These customers might not have got the message about using low pressures. This may be the cause of some problems with hookless road set ups.
Sure, just follow the guideline, no worries. Oh but don't forget your track pump is probably only accurate to within 10-20%. Oh also don't forget you have to anticipate how much temperature change will affect the pressure in the wheel. Oh also don't forget that you have follow guidelines for wheel / tire compatibility beyond just getting an appropriate size. In my eyes it's kind of bullshit for road and questionable for gravel. For MTB I'm ok with it but pressures are typically well under 2 bar.
You should know that when I worked as a mechanic, people would very often ask for “just the standard size” tyres and inner tubes. That’s the level of ignorance you’re dealing with. You’re asking people who have absolute no interest or comprehension of the importance of understanding this, to research a whole list of requirements (rim width, tyre width, pressure, rider weight etc). That’s assuming they have a pump with a pressure gauge! It’s not going to happen and people will die and be seriously injured as a consequence.
I'll never buy or ride hookless rims.
Jazzycat 2001: “I’ll never buy or ride disc brakes”
Jazzycat 2024: all bikes are disc brakes
😂😂
@@Jacob99174 Are you 11 years old?
@@jazzcatjohn old soul
couldn't tell
@@jazzcatjohndon’t work at a carnival guessing age then
😂
If hookless can't handle impacts with stones, then Lotto-DSTNY are fairly unlikely to win Paris-Roubaix...
Hookless not for me. Why change something that is not broken.
As if you will never hit a rock???? Hookless is simply too dangerous. The UCI ban shaving off "lawyer tabs" however hookless road wheels are a lot more dangerous.
TdeG wheel doesnt look too damaged also how come it took about a week for this bullshit to come out you guys are correct race was on the smoothest surface in the planet I for one will never be using hookless rims ever
This video would have been more interesting if I had a clue what hookless is? Or are? No idea.
..here we go again!🙄 this is obviously a real issue.
If it is an issue, why isn't there a civil lawsuit against Zipp and Enve? It's a non-isssue but its in the news....
Not a fan of Hookless rims.
Have you got some?
Not anymore as I need to be confident in my equipment
So you had a tyre blow off the rim?
I’m 100 kilos and running hookless under 90 Psi I had the front tyre seperate from the rim and I hit the road. Hence I switched back to Campagnolo 2 ways and run inner tubes with sealant with no issues thus far
The limit for hookless is 73psi so that’s not exactly surprising. I was 100kg not long ago at all and never ran above 73psi because I’d never need to. So surely your case is user error 🤷🏻♂️
Hambini did a great video on hookless rims
I dont have to worry. I wont be buying any. Im not a pro. No need to take any risk.
The hooked rims provide an extra measure safety. I believe hookless rims are manufactured to cut cost and save a small amount of weight. I think they should be banned. The margin of error is too small!
But they are banned....
from any of my bikes.
No matter which way one looks at it removing material from a structure weakens said stucture.
Hookless rims with tubeless tires and sealant are just another unnecessary bicycle "innovation" . Like disc brakes They make cycling more expensive, more complicated and less safe. Can someone end the madness? cycling is supposed to be fun.
This is a nonsense topic. They are safe. Have we never seen tires rolling off when we used tubs? And does anyone else remember Derrick Gee’s tire popping off the rim after hitting a rock at the 2023 Paris Roubaix? He had hooked black inc wheels. Like let’s get over this already. Stupid click bait.