Sunset Limited Derailment--Arizona, October 1995--And The Out-Of-Service Phoenix Line
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- THE MOST-WATCHED RUclips VIDEO OF THE PALO VERDE DERAILMENT
READ THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE FOR DETAILS ON THE PALO VERDE AMTRAK SABOTAGE:
The pavement ends and it's fifteen miles west through the empty desert before you arrive at the derailment site at Quail Springs Wash; beyond that, another fifteen miles of barrenness before you arrive at Hyder, an almost-nothing settlement. After leaving pavement you will likely see no other humans.
This portion of the rail line, which runs between Phoenix and Wellton, AZ, came late to Arizona. Since the late 1800's Phoenix was at the end of two branch lines. The Santa Fe built their line into Phoenix from the north, and the Southern Pacific did the same from the south, but all trains from either line had to return the way they came. For years the state pressured the SP to build a line west from Phoenix that would complete a through route, and in 1926, this line was the result.
On the night of October 9, 1995, the Sunset Limited left Phoenix just before midnight, running west through Buckeye, then southwest into the barren desert towards Montgomery Pass. At approximately 1:05 a.m., as it banked into the curve ahead of Quail Springs Wash at fifty miles per hour, the Limited's locomotives lurched and pounded across the bridge on the wooden ties before coming to an abrupt stop on the other side. The coaches and the passengers didn't fare as well: Six cars derailed, two of which fell--hard--thirty feet into the bottom of the dry wash.
Many passengers suffered injuries, some serious. Miraculously, considering the speed and the fall into the wash, only one person was killed, sleeping car attendant Mitchell Bates. The train crew immediately sent out a radio call for help, but owing to the remote area, forty-five minutes passed before the first rescue units could get there.
When help came it came in spades: Men and equipment were everywhere, some getting stuck in the many desert washes which had to be crossed to reach the site. It was a crime-scene nightmare. By the time FBI investigators arrived, most evidence had been obliterated by law-enforcement vehicles, ambulances, fire rescue vehicles, helicopters, passengers and rescue personnel.
The only tangible evidence--at least which has been publicly acknowledged--were several identical notes left at the site, upon which were references to Ruby Ridge and other recent events which the writer(s) took issue with. It was signed by the "Sons of the Gestapo", a group previously unknown to law enforcement.
The rails had been tampered with. Twenty-nine spikes had been pulled out of the railroad ties and the outside rail on the curve was pried out of alignment. Whoever did it knew their geography, as the spot was the only one on the line that had a curve leading onto a bridge, likely chosen to cause maximum damage. And they were sly: The bonding wires were left connected between the misaligned rails, which cause the trackside signals to show a clear indication--the head end crew never saw it coming.
After twenty-five-plus years of investigation there is little evidence available as to who was responsible. But the authorities have by no means forgotten about it. The Unsolved Mysteries television program broadcast a segment on the incident some years back, and it was subsequently posted online at unsolved.com. I found the article and left my name and email address for any new information that might come to light. Within a few days I was contacted by an FBI agent who told me he would "like to meet with me," and I did several times afterwards, talking theories and conjectures--and likely being investigated myself. The FBI has subsequently announced the reward for information leading to arrests had been bumped to $310,000.
Several things that stand out about this incident. First, the perpetrator(s) had to be familiar with the area, and the location was chosen to cause a maximum amount of damage in a derailment. They also had to have at least a rudimentary knowledge of railroad signaling systems, enough to know the bonding wires had to be left attached between the rails, ensuring the engineer would see only a green signal in front of him. Third, though rambling, there's that note left behind by the so-called "Sons of the Gestapo". Though no group using such a name has ever been publicly identified, it was plainly the work of someone who had strong opinions regarding some of the controversial steps used by the government in dealing with domestic issues.
The rails are quiet now, except for rail cars which are occasionally moved in and out of storage. Whether this act of domestic terrorism will ever be solved...who can say?
A CORRECTION: The railcars seen near the 15:00 mark are copper-anode cars, NOT ribbon-rail cars. My error.
I love your videos; no stupid music, very little to no talking, just natural sounds, nice and quiet.
Thanks. Not everyone likes how they're done, but then the armchair critics are all over the place. Everyone has their own way. There's another guy who has a channel azoffroad.net and his way is mucho different, but very effective. Never met him, but he lives only a couple of miles from me.
I agree. It adds a strange dimension to the lonely vastness.
My name is Patrick. Thank you for taking me back. U stood in the exact spot on top of the rail line where I stood at ten years old alone that morning in the dark with no help insight yet, wounding what I would see at first light. To look at the mountains to the right of the line, to see them again is something of nowords to me. Thank you again for this moment.
You are welcome, Patrick. That had to be a terrifying and traumatic time in your life, especially being only a child at the time, and I would guess it took some time to reckon it in your mind. Best wishes to you!
Hey Patrick Remember Me?
Wow! Imagine how difficult it would have been for rescue vehicles to get out there!
Now your name is “Brianna?”
I was there to I was 10yrs old I remember it like it was yesterday
Our Phoenix ATV/UTV Club has rode from Arlington to Sundad and then along the railroad to the Sunset Limited Derailment site. I want to give a big shoutout THANK YOU! for your efforts in documenting this area. I found it very interesting and informative. It gives us a lot more to look for on our next ride in that area. Happy Trails to You...
Thanks! Makes me wish I had an ATV so I could ride along. Yeah, there's a lot to see out there, and many of my videos deal with that specific area, including the one on the Saddle, AZ Maintenance of Way station, which is abt 10 miles further west from the derailment site.
This would be a fun track for a rail cart. You could probably ride for miles on end. Surprised no one has done it yet.
If you read through the comments, you'll see others follow your line of thought. Depending on the number of cars on the line, which varies greatly, you could potentially ride 30-50 miles.
When I do videos of obscure railroad locations I find that a simple map at the beginning helps with the who/what/when/WHERE/why narrative structure.
Many of mine are familiar to Arizonans. And I frequently include latitude and longitude of locations. Thanks for your input and suggestions.
Excellent video and information. I drove out towards that area about 2 months ago from the Phoenix area going West past Palo Verde towards Hyder, but did not make it to the derailment location site. There is still regular freight traffic to Palo Verde, but nothing that I'm aware of beyond that going West past there until you get to Roll and that is accessed from Wellton.
The rails were spread and flagged at Agua Caliente Rd. but they recently moved the anode cars that had been sitting stored at Harqua AZ for years to Arlington recently. Also, if you watch my other videos, you will see that several trestles have been burned west of Saddle AZ.
@@W7DSY Interestingly enough I was bored and stumbled across that deadline of flatcars on Google Satellite just yesterday. I had no idea what they were based on the satellite photos but I was going to travel out there to find out myself, so thanks for saving me the trip! I'm really happy to see that more people are talking about the 96' incident and the Phoenix Line itself due to the talk of bringing Amtrak back to Phoenix. I was born in 02' so I wasn't there for Southern Pacific or Amtrak in Phoenix but growing up I always wondered what exactly the SPs tracks looked like. I really hope that the attention you and others keep bringing to the line helps to bolster support to repair it!
This reminds me of Gene Wilder walking through the desert in the movie Silver Streak. I'd love to be out there.
Bring lots of water.
I’d love to live out there. Peaceful.
Great video thank you 😊
Great video! Thank you for documenting a piece of history!
I believe majority of the east end is being used for local freight. I can be wrong but I just judged it based on the rail color from what I saw on Google Maps
You are correct. But Arlington AZ and west is out of service to Roll, AZ. It is still in use to Arlington to serve the Palo Verde nuclear plant as well as several online customers, most notably the Hickman Chicken Egg facility.
Very brave of you... No way would I venture out in the desert like that. Was stationed in Arizona in the military. Don't have to go too many miles before you're in the middle of "nowhere"
I don't think of myself as brave, but I do take multi precautions to give myself an edge.
back in the 1930's there was a hot springs and resort out near Harqua. Charles Adams worked for the SP out that way starting in 1927. He told me they would have a big christmas celebration for all of the locals. it was only accessable by rail back then, not many cars then. he retired in the 60's and passed away in the 90's in Safford, RIP "Daddo"
Agua Caliente. The buildings are still there, but there is some sort of religious culture/compound nearby.
This subdivision could sorely have been used last summer when the Tempe Town Lake trestle caught fire after a derailment on the UPRR Phoenix Subdivision. During reconstruction, the only Class One sub coming in or out of Phoenix was the BNSF Phoenix Subdivision running from Phoenix to Williams. The Williams Junction is a lead out to the east on the BNSF Southern Transcon and the Seligman Subdivision.
At Williams is the south end of the Grand Canyon Railroad, which runs heritage units. It runs underneath the transcon just to the west of MP 378, and continues north toward the canyon. There is a short line the comes off the BNSF Phoenix Subdivision that eventually winds up converging onto the transcon at Cadiz CA. Cadiz CA is on the Needles Subdivision.
Currently UPRR runs the Gila Subdivision from Tuscon to Yuma, then the Yuma to Colton CA. To the east of Tuscon is the Lordsburg Sub which runs into El Paso Texas. It is currently trafficked by the Sunset Limited into Los Angeles.
I agree
Amtrak really planned these routes horribly, they cut the route to Phoenix because UP wouldn’t service the tracks, and they cut service to Pasadena because the city of Arcadia and Metrolink couldn’t repair a stupid bridge! On top of that the Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle still have a truly abhorrent schedule! 3 trains a week running outbound at 10pm and arriving at 2:30 am who tf plans this? They pass goldmines like the Ontario airport and downtown Palm Springs with no ambition to increase travel, who the literal fuck does that?
Not enough people ride trains to make it pay to run passenger trains. People either drive, or fly.
Great video. Enjoyed the scenery and appreciated all the hard work under difficult conditions to build the RR, the elec. transmission towers, the trestles, etc. I don't know if we have a labor force that could, or would want to, work on those projects today. Great ad for Toyota.
As noted, the line was built in 1926. The working conditions must have been brutal, depending on the time of the year. 120 degrees is not unknown out there.
Beautiful country - I miss Arizona. Thank you for your videos!
Thanks! We still have room for you here.
@@W7DSY Thanks! Lived there (Phx) for two years mid- 1970s. A couple of years ago I started going back twice a year (until COVID happened). I love the desert but can't take the heat.
@@lcrr700 It isn't for everyone. But I like the solitude of the desert & the heat doesn't bother me until it's over 105.
Talked to a BNSF rail inspector a couple weeks ago.He said an FRA person said UP was going to reopen the line.Hopefully so.BTW, those cars look like seamless rail carriers for laying unjointed track.Be on the lookout for date nails and on the poles alongside the track.I grew up near this line in the Tolleson area and there used to be literally 15 to 25 trains a day on this line.It was busy!
I hope you're right, but I have also heard this for 15 years, so I will wait it out. It would be a great route for HSR, since it mostly goes through empty desert. That idea has been floated before. AS to the traffic, I have a 1952 timetable which lists something like 8-12 passenger trains per day.
Just passing on what a Sante Fe employee told me
I live in a mining town with a smelter and cars like that were used for transporting copper anodes from the smelter to a refinery somewhere else
@@mbush545 Thanks for your response. Yes, I was mistaken on the cars, and made a correction in my comments. Those cars have been there for at least 5 years.
I’m impressed by whatever rig you have holding the camera in the truck, especially how stable it is on such a rough road.
Just a small Sony videocam.
By how stable it looked I thought it was on some sort of stabilizer like a gimbal. Is it just post production on video software then?
@@gatblau1 To quote from a movie, "It just came out that way." I know not why, but it was all camera/processing. This vid looks different from any other, and I used the same camera and Adobe process.
i would like to add about my comment is i want to thank you for this long jouraney and to also say im very impressed to how many miles the rail line covers and i also would like to add is that the tracks look in good shape but needs a littile touch of care and should be put back in service
Tracks and rails are in good shape, for jointed rail. Some of the ties had 1926 date nails in 'em. The desert is rather kind to the road.
I had an 03 Tundra and I liked it a lot. I was rear ended by a Prius, and it bent the frame. Totaled the truck.
I sold the Tundra a month or so ago, and I will miss it always. Worse yet for you to be a damned Prius! Now I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Thanks for the input, dwp!
I wonder if they ever searched the two peaks on the western side of the derailment point? it seems to me that the perp or perps would have watched the event unfold to make sure it transpired than departed during the confusion.. they seem to be perfect vantage points.
Good question. I have often wondered whether those responsible watched "the show" as it happened. Good comment.
Well, if you ever get out that way again and can check them out there could still be clues up there. The desert has a way of preserving things.@@W7DSY
It was reported that a passenger and a crew member spotted someone of unknown gender looking down on the crash about 100 yards from the site. The person was wearing a cowboy hat. The person turned around and walked south. The person is unidentified.
Thanks for sharing! I love what I think of as forgotten history. Hope you are taking a Sat Phone on your adventures!
Thanks for watching. No, I don't carry a sat phone, but I do have a cell phone (works here & there) and a CB radio (which works almost nowhere). But I also have a 2-meter amateur radio, and we have a nearby repeater which allows coverage in many remote areas where I explore. I'm also careful to make someone aware of where I'm going and when I'll be back.
Crazy I was on that train, I was 10 years old
Fascinating! I have been to that site many times, always interested to hear from people who experienced it. I wonder if it has left any PTSD with you...
My Dad was still Materials planner in Tucson when this derailment happened. I don’t remember exact specifics, but I do recall this was early into the merger of Southern Pacific/ Rio Grande into Union Pacific. I do remember Dad describing the tension amongst employees of the Union Pacific takeover, and there were many existing railroad employees that were being moved to other positions and locales, others were strongly encouraged to accept buy-outs, early retirement and some were flat out fired. Dad was one of several senior officers and managers who were sent to a mandatory training class describing how to write a proper resume, and he was one they wanted to buy out. Then Union Pacific tried to move my family from Tucson to Los Angeles. In the end Dad stayed on and retired in 2001 after more than forty years of service. I mention all of this because I do remember there were a lot of SP and Rio Grande people who got left out in the cold in the aftermath of the UP takeover.
Because this accident was sabotage committed by a person or people who knew how to wreck the track, and wire the signal to bypass the early alert the train would have received otherwise could only have been perpetrated by someone with knowledge of track operations. And there was a lot of hostile resentment to go around dozens of railroad employees. In many ways it’s no wonder no one was ever prosecuted for this crime.
My biggest surprise was--as mentioned in the article I wrote in the comment section--the response of FBI to my unsolved.com inquiry. But as the agent I spoke with told me, "The crime scene was obliterated" by rescue vehicles, etc. on site. I never factored in the merger/aquisiton of the SP/UP for disgruntled employees. Frankly, I believe the feds are pretty secure in the knowledge of who did this, but lack enough hard evidence to make a conviction. Thanks for your comments.
To me, it’s the only thing that would make sense in a criminal mind that intentionally would want to derail a passenger train. Railroaders are all about safety, and it goes against the grain to be sure. But if someone is angry enough or desperate enough, a person can be driven to acts that normally would be unthinkable.
It had to be a past or even present track worker or workers that carried this out because it was too well planned and executed not to be. For example, choosing the site of the sabotage, the use of tools you can’t readily purchase at your Ace Hardware, the knowledge of when the passenger train came through that area. The knowledge to make sure the sensors didn’t trip the train into emergency before it was too late...
Derailments are bad enough but if you really want to cause havoc, endless lawsuits and pain not just from families of victims and survivors but from higher up the chain from government entities a passenger train is a much richer target than your average freighter.
Investigating occurrences like this one has to step into the shoes and the minds of the criminal(s) in order to find their evidence trails. Doing so can take you into some very dark scenarios in your mind, but it can also shine the light on the trail where to look next in my opinion.
@@kimtankersley6521 I believe the location tells much abt who was the perp. Hardly anyone know where this is, and the site was not chosen by accident--on a curve before a bridge. So some familiarity with the territory wd be necessary.
@@W7DSY yes I completely agree!
@@kimtankersley6521 As Hidden Arizona stated above, do you think that the Feds actually know who did this but lack the evidence to bring charges against? What is your theory on this?
2 years ago they did a story on this and when the reporter asked the FBI agent if a former employee did it they said they couldn’t give details. So I’m guessing it was a disgruntled ex-employee!
That's kind of a standard response to that question, MG. The feds are really tight-lipped about what they know and what they let out that might be new knowledge. So to answer your question, I think that was really a non-response from the feds.
FBI can't make speculations without evidence.
They have to gather evidence before making a conclusive speculation.
I know Amtrak is running in the red, and the eastern corridor from Boston to wash DC makes money. The new Orleans line still is out since the Katrina hurricane I believe...
Definitely don’t want to be there during a monsoon!
I have a 2001 Tundra just like that, 270,000 mi. Still running great.
They're good trucks, but this year has been costly. Trans/transfer case, upper & lower ball joints, steering, shocks, tires. But up until now, has been almost trouble free.
@@W7DSY routine maintenance, ready for another 200k on it!!! Cheaper than getting a new vehicle these days 🙄
Lmao, the image stabilization makes the poles look as if they're swaying.
For whatever reason, that phenomena is more pronounced in this particular video than any other. Also, the bouncing text. I don't know why.
madmax2069 I noticed that too, but I didn’t know what caused it.
Jesus! The railroad. So many memories are full of trains. I'm in Pittsburg, California and the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe run through it. We used to steal lanterns from the track switches. Put coins on the rails. Talk to weird people who rode the rails in gondolas and box cars. Pull the lever to exhaust the air reservoir. I stole a section of track. They make good anvils. There was a broken down shack, maintenance of way camp, as you call it, with profanities written on the walls. And, "Uphill slow, downhill fast, cargo first, safety last". A ramp long ago abandoned was used by lovers as cover from Santa Fe street. Used rubbers and porn littered the area. I rode from Martinez, California to Minneapolis, Minnesota on trains. The Soo Line was like riding in a paint can shaker. But to look out the window during the dawn as the train sped through the vast wilderness that is North America was a ritual I enjoyed. But back home we relished waving and yelling at the crews riding the "putt-putt car".
I moved to Phoenix from Santa Cruz.
9:29 It says, "1897." If that's the year the rail was made, then it's much older than I thought it would be.
Not terribly uncommon to find very old rail on secondary rail or sidings.
How sad people do things like derailing a train. Guess many people must have lost their life. Wow! Mainland is so HUGE! Here in Oahu you can drive from one end of the island until you fall in the pacific ocean in less than 2 hours. Sad there's no rail here... Great video! Aloha!
Thank you for your comments. I visited Hawaii in the '80's, and it is stunning. But--to each his own. I'm addicted to the desert.
If you know the composer Ennio Morricone you might enjoy this composition 'The Desert' from one of Clint Eastwood's 'Spaghetti Westerns' ruclips.net/video/c-m99pqZxfU/видео.html
@@W7DSY Thanks I'll check the site.
Roger on addicted to the desert! But glad you visited the island back in the 80's. Well Waikiki area are lined with new luxury condos. Otherwise nothing new here... Take care!
So that line hasn't seen a train in over 20 years!?! Its still in pretty good shape, I guess the desert does that
i could not tell they were abandoned!
As a railroad and train fan, it saddened me to hear the track was sabotaged to derail a passenger train. I did find on Google Maps using the photo images that there are two separate groups of copper anode cars on the track.
awizardalso What does that mean... copper anode cars on the tracks?
Enjoyed the video!
Thanks!
I like the haunting music at the bridge and the hillbilly redemption music as you leave after. Cool video 👌👍
Thanks
I was a passenger on the train that night
I would like to hear more from you. I have researched this for the last 15 years.
Must've been heavy to see this and reliving that night .
Bring a two way ham radio. They are less than 100 dollars.
50 watts with a quarter wave vhf antenna will get your signal 50 miles.
Program the VHF ham repeater frequencies into it for the area.
That way you can call for help if you need to.
I've wanted to get into ham radio operation. Is there one that you recommend?
@@MrIdasam I like Yaesu products. A handheld transceiver of 5 watts out there will get you a 50 mile radius with the local repeater.
I really enjoyed this video. I like that you leave your written comments up on the screen long enough for me to read them, and all your explanations of what we are seeing. Listing the exact longitude and latitude of the wreck. I actually remember the news stories when this happened, but forgot all about it until I saw your video. One question: Does your wife know you go out to places like this?
Ha ha, yes my wife knows, but she also knows when I shd be back, and I take 4-5 gallons of water with me. Is it risky? Yes, but I take all the precautions I can, including a cell phone (works sometimes), a CB radio, and I am a licensed amateur radio operator, and that usually covers me.
Thanks for your comments re: the screen comments. Some people don't like them, but I decided long ago I would make these the way I saw fit. The lat & longitude to me are important shd you want to find the location on google earth.
Again, thanks for your comments.
Whoever is responsible for this is gone. There's no witnesses way out there. Sad. My condolences to the man who lost his life.
U Mean Mitchell Bates An Amtrak Employee On His Way Home To Retire Until The Accident I Was On That Sunset Limited When I Was Only 4 Years Old
Thank you for this excellent work - and advice. I think this case will continue unsolved. I plan to read your article and just subbed here.
Thanks, Diane. Yes, I believe it will never be solved. The FBI agent told me when I had coffee with him that by the time they got there, the scene was chaotic, with people wandering about, vehicles, driving in and out, etc., so there was virtually no intact crime scene left.
This incident is similar or the same thing that happened with the "city of san francisco" tracks were sabotaged as well but they are southern pacific tracks in the 30's
Yes, many parallels. Also a railfan magazine had an article on the 'City' incident only a month or two before the AZ happening. The feds investigated that as it might have been some sort of copycat crime.
Great niche video for rail fans and desert lovers like myself. Also the eerie ambient music at 29:55 was my favorite part. Really set the vibe for a somber exploration of the remains of an evil act in a remote area. The voiceless natural audio with captions is a good approach for a slow paced video like this one. As someone with a long attention span, I appreciated it! I would suggest continue to add subtle ambient music here and there. Just as long as it doesn’t stand out too much. Just think of the words of Brian Eno himself as he defined ambient: “as ignorable as it is interesting”
That's a great comment. Seems to fit our present political climate as well.
Love the ambient music. Do you happen to know the title or artist. Excellent, great video.
@@jamdiep99 It is the stock music supplied by Adobe on their video processing site.
@@jamdiep99 Supplied by Adobe, which is what I use to process the vids.
@@jamdiep99 Stock Adobe video music.
These track are better than some of the tracks in use daily here in Australia
And some of the ties are the originals from when the road was put down in 1926. I know, because occasionally I find a date nail in them.
Finally got the chance to head out there except we came from gila bend from the west it ended up being to soft sand for us to continue past a wash a half mile from the sabotage site so we ended up walking to the site but didn’t go any further east so unfortunately did get to see the left behind rolling stock
Good show You hit the important stuff anyway. Besides, they don't look like they're going anywhere any time soon.
Sir, as one gray haired guy to another gray haired guy, thank you so much for this very interesting adventure. I am curious when and why this line was abandoned. From your video, the ROW looks in pretty good shape. i would be interested in that information. Thank you again for a great video adventure.
Out of service is more like it. Low traffic volume was the biggest reason.
@@W7DSY That explains it. Thank you for the very quick response.
This would be a fun ride on your rail cart.
That's been considered many times.
So middle of nowhere there's no graffiti.
Yep, hard to believe
I was working next shift as train dispatcher on this line
Must have been a strange few days following this. You ever been out there?
I was on the volunteer fire dept when this occured. Missed the call because I was in phoenix at the time.
Great video!
I would love to ride that line on my home made speeder
You would have to start on the west end of the abandoned portion, since the east end has a lot of car storage. But still possible to ride 30-40 miles.
nice video great job.
Thanks, I appreciate the compliment.
This incident help force the cell companies to facilitate priority on towers for official public safety phones. When this happened, the media camped on the very limited analog service, and the fire department vhf radios couldn't hit the dispatch tower, causing serious issues. It forced the fire department to put a repeater as well.
I have an amateur radio license which works most of the area, and cell service is spotty at best there.
Did they create another alignment for this stretch of rail? I'd think Amtrak/UP still crosses Arizona down here somewhere in order to get from LA to El Paso.
This line was to establish a through line to Phoenix, and it was built in 1926. The original "Sunset Route" runs between Tucson & Yuma, and is in use to this day, but it doesn't go through Phoenix.
Really enjoyed your video. Do you ever take a Metal Detector with you to check the dry washes for Gold?
NO, but I've tried near the tracks, and it's impossible. Way too much metal all over.
THERE IS A LOT OF RAILS THAT ARE GOOD INCLUDING ABUTMENT TIES AND REPAIR
any idea of the individual span lengths? ;-)
Awesome, enjoyed the video very much.
Thanks!
I wonder if the RR knows these cars are out there and plans to get them?
They know.
@@W7DSY do you think they will ever get them?
@@vincentconsolo5782 no
I love this video, and found it very interesting. I only have one small complaint. I wish you narrated instead of Over-laid text. Still fascinating though and I watched until the end. You have to wonder how cars can be parked on an abandoned line or siding. Were they no longer useful and abandoned for scrap? Or were they just parked and then lost track of... forgotten? Thanks for posting this. I really enjoyed it! :) PS... Looks like a prime location for a DIY rail speeder ;)
Point well taken. In fact, I am improving, but still don't like the sound of my own voice.
Another reply: Those cars are equipped to carry copper plates, and the downturn of copper production, or the need for fewer cars in any case is the reason they are out there. Additionally, over the years I have seen cars stored out there, and at one point around 2010 or so, a string 19 miles long of auto racks was out there. Railroads often use unused tracks for storage.
@@W7DSY I've heard it said Lorne Green disliked his own voice too ;)
@@W7DSY Thank you for that bit of info too. Canadian railways can't seem to rip up their unused track fast enough. Sad for rail fans and explorers, but a real boon to those who love walking trails. There is here in Canada what is known as the Trans-Canada Trail Network, much of which if not most of which used to be rail lines.
I liked that walk! 💯👍
That was great, thank you 👍
Thanks!
Wow!, I forgot about that Train derailment back in 95!! That's just WRONG!! What I know about trains and tracks is, what an old-timer told me; !!ALWAYS!!, keep the mainline OPEN!!! Also that looks like a perfect spot for Sunbathing no-one to see YOU!!, and you got plenty of Sun!!!😂😂😂
I've always wondered why railroads like UP, etc. don't use lines like this to haul empties and keep them off the main line ??
I can't answer that, but they do use this line for storage. Sometimes many miles of cars.
@@W7DSY Thanks for your reply . . .
Storage is one thing . . . but, an active rail
line is something else . . . if this is being for used for storage - - my view - - the stock
is better off scrapped . . . .
I am simply suggesting an approx. 30 mile
by pass of UP mainline by shunting over this great length of rail . . .
1897 steel will thermite weld nicely with some new ties . . . to create a very
expeditious "round-about" route of empties
for a major line . . .
A simple study of the cost of "empties" on the mainline could help Class-3's reconsider the use of some "abandoned-leased-short lines" they still have control over . . .
1897 steel is REAL American steel . . .
If nothing else . . . I'd be recycling that
steel right now . . .
I'm just thinking too much . . .
Thanks Again . . . !!
Will this line ever get fixed? Usually railroad companies worry about the money they are losing until the tracks get fixed and the company is serving its customers thus bringing in cash. The train business is 24/7 365 days a year according to a track repair engineer I talked to from Union Pacific.
Steve Otting Our new administration will probably buy it, pave it, and turn it into a bicycle path.
@@misryluvsco8169 That wouldn't surprise me!
@@misryluvsco8169 Our new administration will support passenger and freight rail.
When was the last train on this line, and do you think they’ll be used again or removed? Thanks
The actual last train was a UP passenger special, but when that occurred I don't know, probably around 1999. I think the road will be used again, but I think I will be in the ground before that happens.
..Didnt you miss the "phone booth"..??? ..But, waay cool about the "Carnegie rail"..!!!!
Good advice, at the end, & good moosick as well.., More power 2 ya..!! 🎸☠👍🎸
Phone booth at 7:00.
Are they going to put this line back into service now since the Tempe bridge collapse this past week? Or will UP depend on BNSF to reach Phoenix until fixed?
Apparently they're gonna depend on the BNSF to get the job done, have already done so. But I was/am hoping. This could move the needle a bit towards reopening the line. They only need to upgrade the middle 50 miles of it to make it suitable for heavy traffic. If there's any movement on this, I'll be the first to post it.
@@W7DSY yes please do! Keep up the great work!
I doubt this line will ever reopen. No reason to really and it’ll cost too much in upgrades. Freight is flowing fine and the Tempe bridge is being rapidly repaired.
@@junebug172 I don't think the upgrades would be so bad--after all all but 50 miles of this route are still in use. It will depend largely upon how much the city expands over the next 10-20 years. As long as the rails remain in place, there is hope for it reopening--and one must ask why they haven't been pulled.
Saw almost a mile long consist of empties going out to Buckeye.havnt seen a consist that long since they closed the line
Looks like a jilted employee job. Would have had to be. 1) know the schedule. 2) been familiar with the track design. 3) Would have to know to work fast.
Good points. There is speculation it was meant for a freight that was delayed.
@@W7DSY I've traveled rail awhile,don't know that particular run but I do know any day I travel i always meet another one coming from the place i'm going. Amtracs Southwest Chief is the one i usually travel. If it was the freight that may be why it remains a mystery to this day. The person didn't mean to kill only get "revenge". Otherwise he/ she would have done all that damage within a 24 hr window.
I agree. Employee related. The person would have also had to have knowledge of the signal system as well. That was once a signalled main line.
restore little by little
Cars stored for use or for scrap ?
Maybe bump cars to mark the end of the line
EXCELLENT VIDEO
Thanks!!
Where are all the rattlesnakes?
Nice Tundra. I used to have one like that.
275,000 miles, but this year it has needed a LOT of work.
You should bring a meal detector next time. See what you can find buried in the wash
One thing I have learned abt metal detectors around railroad tracks is, there is so much discarded metal for 100 feet either side they are essentially unusable.
@@W7DSY But metal detectors these days can discriminate out iron.
@@W7DSY Venture a wee bit farther away like a half mile up or down a wash...... I've picked up some fine nuggets,.... @ 2K an ounce it can pay for your gas (lol).
I remember this and I remember there were high rail trucks that were seen going down the track from the company that owned the track
The company did not use that track anymore for freight service and they were very upset that the contract they had with Amtrak forced them to maintain that line and it was very costly for them.
It was pretty much decided that the rail company did this either the employees on their own or on orders from higher up
After this act of terrorism and the crash Amtrak abandoned that route
If this had been something like the Oklahoma bombing or some other group doing this they would have made arrests but since it was the company they didn't want to go up against the high priced lawyers the rail company had and they pretty much wrote it off
So much for justice
Wow! I never heard about this aspect of the incident. Where did you hear about it?
@@MrIdasam There was a person who lived near the tracks, the last house before the desert.
They saw the hi-rail trucks go by and they thought it was odd
They told the FBI and they couldn't verify it. But it is widely known that this was an inside job designed to cause the crash to take the tracks oos because the railroad didn't want Amtrak using them.
@@ocsrc Wow! So they were willing to potentially kill hundreds of people in order to save a few bucks.
@@MrIdasam YES. It's darkens my heart to see just how evil these people are that have so much and they are never happy and they always want more
If you ask someone who has more than they could ever use,
If you say to them I will give you a dollar for every person that is killed how many people do you want me to kill and they would say 8 billion or all of them
I never knew how evil the people were that rule the world but I have seen them face to face and looked in their eyes and there is nothing but evil
@@MrIdasam As if this type of thing hasn't happened before.
This video was most interesting. I lived in Peoria, AZ when this event happened, still creepy almost 25 years later. I had a couple questions & comments. Surely Southern (now Union) Pacific spent a wad of money cleaning this mess up and repairing the damage. I wonder why they then decided to abandon the track. Was it ever used again after the repair? Seems like it wouldn't take much to finish shoring up the trestle with a more permanent repair. It really is out in the middle of nowhere. They would also have to find a more viable solution for safety to prevent anything like this from ever happening again. After all, there are other similar desolate places across the entire country that don't seem to have this issue, many right there in AZ.
I'm not sure why UP spent the $ for this, exc it was likely at the time they keep it as a viable route for Amtrak. Once Amtrak went to the Sunset route, the value of the line for freight diminished. I understand they only ran one freight per day, so maintenance costs could not be justified. However, they have spent money to re-signal the line as far as Agua Caliente Rd, and the line has not been torn up. I think there are two scenarios: Keep the line for future freight use, as Phx grows, OR keep dangling the bait to the state as a high-speed rail corridor, and sell it to them for big bucks. UP is very sharp when it comes to selling their routes for a boatload of profits. Take your pick.
@@W7DSY Thanks for the follow-up. Your second theory seems the most likely however, after studying a map of that area, keeping it as a viable alternative to the current Sunset route also seems not out of the realm of possibilities. Also, related to my first post, the current Sunset route takes it through some areas just as desolate as this one. So obviously they've figured out how to keep the riff-raff from repeating the sabotage that happened here. I also suspect they did such a thorough cleanup to keep souvenir hunters from scavenging. Your video shows pretty conclusively they were very thorough in their cleanup efforts. I suppose if one went there with a metal detector, a few spikes or similar could be found buried in the dirt of the wash. Based on the rest of your video, it seems the line is still in very good (excellent) condition. Since nothing rusts out there, one or two trains over those rails will polish them right back up. I'm fairly certain they would also have to lay out another siding somewhere along where the old one was. As an aside and unrelated note, have you been down to that line west of Tucson (right off I-10) where all those UP locos were stored on that dead-end track? The Google earth pic still shows them there but that image is from a couple years ago and I've heard UP might have moved them all. Would be nice to know from a reliable source...
@@loco-dweeb5258 Not sure those engines are there, but abt a year or so ago, they were, as I saw them. Re: the West Valley line, did you see my follow=up video on the MOW camp at Saddle? That's abt 10 miles down the line from the derail site. Here's the link, in case you missed it.
ruclips.net/video/36R2c9rDGKk/видео.html
Saddle was a train order station added during WW2, because traffic during the war was at capacity.
You are right abt the condition of the line. Although out of service for nearly 25 yrs, it is in excellent condition. Some of the ties are original from line construction, 1926! I have found them w/date nails indicating that.
You should post a video of Nowhere on 93 between Wickiup and Wickenburg on 93 north. North of Bagdad. Sorry I know the area real well having friend still in Skull Valley. I'm not in Arizona to do such a video but I still own property in the Aquarius Mountains not far from Knight Creek.
Frank who?? Was a nickname we gave to a trainmaster in Willard Ohio years ago.
Not the same Frank. Check out Frank's channel at 'Exploring Abandoned Mines and Unusual Places' on youtube. I've subscribed to Frank's channel for years. He does a lot of underground exploration, and I do the aboveground stuff!
@@W7DSY I was sure that it wasn't a reference to the fellow that I knew. Thank you for the info! I'm left wondering which of you has the easier task. You have the heat to contend with. Frank has tight spaces and the possibility of a cave-in!
@@thomasdupee1440 I think Frank is braver than I am.
KEEP ON SEEING THE POSSIBILITY'S
Can I borrow some of this video for my train wreck documentary?
Any of the dual band radios is fine
Lexien vv898 is a low power Mobil
Inexpensive
Good to start with
ST-980P is a 75 / 50 watts high power
If you are doing this type of exploration, get a high power radio and a 1/4 wave antenna
I have a message for the person who sabotaged those tracks. I live in poverty. I need the reward money. Tell me in the comments where I can find you; or do you not care that I live in poverty?
Same here, Just know that to some people even a hundred bucks is a chunk of change.
Thankyou.
I forgot to ask you why you derailed that train.
How old are you, Denys?
Hi, there, before you know it, I'm going to show up on your doorstep.
Could it be that steams required alot more maintenance on the line so more work crews were needed? With dieselization, the need for the onsite crews decreased greatly?
Steam was labor intensive, but the main thing was jointed rail in a remote and extreme weather area. Crews were needed on site.
Looks like plenty of tire tracks out there, surprised there wasn't more garbage on the ground.
There really isn't a lot of traffic, except for the petroleum pipeline that runs through there, the power company, and a fiber optic outfit, all of which patrol that area to one degree or another. Otherwise, it's the occasional visit. I have been out there probably 50-60 times and I have encountered vehicles maybe 3 times over the years. Too remote to be visited much.
sad to see these tracks discontinued. tracks look in great shape just the rusted rails :(
I agree with you. But the desert has been quite kind to the roadbed. Even some of the ties date back many years, and I have the date nails to prove it. There is now some official talk to bringing this line back to operating standard.
@@W7DSY
Only if freight service gets backed up along the other lines.
@@historyisthebestmyfans2094 Perhaps, but I had many railfans tell me that we would never see a Big Boy run again. "Never say never..."
@@W7DSY I said the line will come back if traffic along the other lines backs up.
For now, it will continue to rust
Well done and informative! Thank you. Hope thathe murderer is caught and prosecuted. Were therever any suspects?
A number of suspects. I believe they know who did this, but not enough evidence for a conviction.
@@W7DSY I would send pictures of the deceased to the one who did this.
Supposedly, a survivor of the wreck immediately afterward looked around and noticed someone on horseback on a nearby ridge who, if it was a saboteur, witnessed the wreck he caused. I was hoping the ridge where that person was watching the wreck occur could have been pointed out. I suppose unless you actually investigated the wreck you could not know that. Or where the spikes and rails were neatly arranged according to the reports. Amtrak did not any help to ruin its business. Evil people out there.
Never heard that, but the wreck happened at about 1a.m., and there are NO lights out there.
Thanks for the reply. I don't remember where I heard that report of the person spotted on horseback immediately after the wreck. At 1 a.m. in the dark, that would seem unlikely. Thanks for videotaping this interesting and tragic occurrence
What an awesome place to be
Been there many times in the last 15 years. Probably more than anyone on the planet.
With PSR now creating longer trains, and UP having to build new sidings or lengthen others, I'm wondering if this now idle secondary line could be re-habbed and brought back into service for directional running.
Who knows? I've talked to many signalmen over the years, and every time I ask them, re-starting the line is "just around the corner." But after almost 25 years, the rails are still out there, so that might tell you something.
that's the case with the abandoned Tennessee pass line in Colorado
@@neworleanssaintsfan2903 Tennessee Pass isn't abandoned. My understanding is that it's embargoed to insure no competitors could use it. About the only way it could reasonably be used is for westbound traffic off the former MP main from Pueblo to Kansas City and St. Louis, but I think BNSF now operates that line. Back in February of this year, BNSF DID actually operate a freight train over Tennessee Pass, recovering about 130 stored coal hoppers that had been sold to a new owner.
So why is this line no longer in use?
It was under utilized, only ran Amtrak & 1 freight/day, so now they run all trains up and back from the east valley. Amtrak no longer visits Phoenix, and there is no through route to Phoenix. BNSF also runs trains in & out on their route from the north.
How many rattlesnakes did you encounter?
I've seen none out there. They know I bite back. But foxes, deer, coyotes, rabbits, etc., plenty.
Why was it abandoned?
Low freight traffic volume, and Amtrak decided to run the route straight west from Tucson to Yuma instead of diverting through Phoenix.
@@W7DSY Makes since gets rid of some travel time
how many miles of stored cars are there?
Varies constantly. Last time I was out there, very few. Have seen a string of 19 miles.
Great Video
Thanks!
I think the Semaphore that dissapeared after the line was abandoned because the line was vandalised. I saw what happened to the Tennessee Pass rail line after it was abandoned. The signals were either missing or had parts missing. So the Semaphore may have been stolen by someone for money or something.
Definitely stolen. I inquired, and that's true.
@@W7DSY What is a semaphore signal? I'm new to railroad videos, so forgive me.
@ Try this link. It's a color-light signal which ha a colored metal blade on it which moves.
www.google.com/search?q=semaphore+signal+images&rlz=1C1NDCM_enUS729US729&sxsrf=ALeKk00zjxko6xUV7UIPr4JM9pF2HWqpYA:1590155281014&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=AYria8k4DVsmgM%253A%252CTXIrYGnSFPgaOM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQJ4i5vpsq-W5AScRyPE7Y6VTtKYQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2gaaFzsfpAhXVrZ4KHX62DpQQ9QEwAHoECAoQEg#imgrc=xRFTYHxKBsHt-M
@ CAUTION: You're in danger of getting hooked...
But what is the size of the rail!
I was planning to bring that rail line back to life
looks like a real nice place 2 run track speeders
Yes, haven't been any through trains on this line for at least 20 years. You would have to start at the west end, and work east. The video is from the east end of the out-of-service rails.
going to rot away, from rotted
out ties to underweight rail, its had it, yupee would need another 20-25 trains tucson,
before it would make sense to
re-open this scrap yard, the
saboteurs actually did espee/
yupee a favor