Dear Community! Use this as a last resort when you feel you're dealing with someone who cannot make the final say on your compensation! Good luck and see you Thursday for LOH!
I have taken tons of notes from watching chris voss (former fbi negotiator) for this very reason. Those tactics work incredibly well as conversation piece. I have like 6 pages of notes from “art of negotiation” and even in day to day routine work… my level of backing people into pigeon holes went from “not in a million years” to me being an immovable force. I recommend both Andy and Chris as valuable resources to all our interns.
I recently applies for a job thru a well known online company advertising jobs. As I was finishing up the application/resume section their last question was what I expected to get paid for this position. Which, I thought was very unfair as this position is full of responsibilities, travel, events meeting with other associations. The org was not posting their salary range, but asking what I would expect to get paid. You had to fill in the space to summit the app. I ended up putting in $000,000. In the next section I wrote that I would be more than happy to offer them a salary when I got the full details of the amount of work, travel and meetings outside of normal hours I would need to be responsible for. The org that was looking is one of the top orgs in my profession. Why would they present themselves in such an unprofessional way?
You make a good point. I have 10 years experience in HR and my guess is that the internal talent team is being lazy. Instead of speaking with you first for 20-30 mins to understand your skills and background, they are looking to filter people out based on how they respond. Like Andy said in the video, the person reviewing applications has the ability to say 'no,' but they are usually not empowered to say 'yes' -- and they probably are not experienced enough to present a business case to the hiring manager to consider and encourage paying more. You're likely dealing with a very inexperienced talent team or a broken hiring process. You did the right thing by putting in zeros -- I sometimes put a $1. If they don't share the salary range, then they should not ask you for your range. Bad process.
You can read my story just posted in comments. But agree with you. I was asked to fill out a form and send in prior to interview to get the ball rolling, background checks and contacting references. However, it also asked salary expectations, and that was merely to weed me out with a NO. I refused to send it in until after the interview, and the very young woman who was recruiting did seem even in the interview to be not dressed professional too (hoodie, really? I had a suit jacket on for the zoom!) I do not know if I shot myself in the foot or put a good foot forward in my response. I typed *$32 OBO, with added under that “if union allows.” And then in email I said I had verified with my references their contact information is correct and they are eagerly awaiting your calls, and added that again my being valuable as a bilingual/bicultural person is why I asked for that, outside their stated range of $26 to 29.96, but am flexible according to what they are able to do for me knowing they have a contract with the union. I had asked if they were able to get me closer to the $32. I am wondering if closed ended or open ended questions would be best? It would avoid a no.
Would you rather get paid your worth or have people like you? Unfortunately my management seemed to deeply resent the base salary I had negotiated as they needed to bump up the rest of the team's base salary. This resulted in them not replacing a team member who was seconded leading to stress and burnout for me and my team. They also did not pay out my full bonus even though I exceeded my stretch. So be careful what you wish for I guess. The irony that they are 1.5million per annum better off thanks to my efforts in the 1.5 yrs I tolerated that place is not lost on me.
Andy, I had a particular situation. I got 2 interviews already with the head of Customers Services and the person who is going to be my boss the Director of Customer Service, my position is Engagement Manager. Those interviews I got them because my previous boss referred me, who is the chieft staff at Pypestream. And Gary the chief of Developers who also worked with me, said good things about me . The salary range is from 90 k to 110 k, bur because of my 18 years of experience in the field, I think I will bring great value to the company that I am worth of 115k how I will sell me for that amount. This position is not even posted in their website. Any advice?
What do you do when the required application form states it must be filled in completely to be considered and there is a field for starting and ending salary for each of your previous jobs?
Dear Community! Use this as a last resort when you feel you're dealing with someone who cannot make the final say on your compensation! Good luck and see you Thursday for LOH!
I have taken tons of notes from watching chris voss (former fbi negotiator) for this very reason. Those tactics work incredibly well as conversation piece. I have like 6 pages of notes from “art of negotiation” and even in day to day routine work… my level of backing people into pigeon holes went from “not in a million years” to me being an immovable force. I recommend both Andy and Chris as valuable resources to all our interns.
Love to hear this and glad to help AND, YES, Chris Voss is excellent!
My manager hates u Andy! Lol
That is freaking awesome!
😂😂😂😂😂🎉🎉
I like your practical approach to negotiation
Appreciate that!
Agreed that you have to bring this out carefully. But very powerful. Great video as always.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I recently applies for a job thru a well known online company advertising jobs. As I was finishing up the application/resume section their last question was what I expected to get paid for this position. Which, I thought was very unfair as this position is full of responsibilities, travel, events meeting with other associations. The org was not posting their salary range, but asking what I would expect to get paid. You had to fill in the space to summit the app. I ended up putting in $000,000. In the next section I wrote that I would be more than happy to offer them a salary when I got the full details of the amount of work, travel and meetings outside of normal hours I would need to be responsible for. The org that was looking is one of the top orgs in my profession. Why would they present themselves in such an unprofessional way?
You make a good point. I have 10 years experience in HR and my guess is that the internal talent team is being lazy. Instead of speaking with you first for 20-30 mins to understand your skills and background, they are looking to filter people out based on how they respond.
Like Andy said in the video, the person reviewing applications has the ability to say 'no,' but they are usually not empowered to say 'yes' -- and they probably are not experienced enough to present a business case to the hiring manager to consider and encourage paying more. You're likely dealing with a very inexperienced talent team or a broken hiring process. You did the right thing by putting in zeros -- I sometimes put a $1. If they don't share the salary range, then they should not ask you for your range. Bad process.
You can read my story just posted in comments.
But agree with you.
I was asked to fill out a form and send in prior to interview to get the ball rolling, background checks and contacting references.
However, it also asked salary expectations, and that was merely to weed me out with a NO.
I refused to send it in until after the interview, and the very young woman who was recruiting did seem even in the interview to be not dressed professional too (hoodie, really? I had a suit jacket on for the zoom!)
I do not know if I shot myself in the foot or put a good foot forward in my response.
I typed *$32 OBO, with added under that “if union allows.” And then in email I said I had verified with my references their contact information is correct and they are eagerly awaiting your calls, and added that again my being valuable as a bilingual/bicultural person is why I asked for that, outside their stated range of $26 to 29.96, but am flexible according to what they are able to do for me knowing they have a contract with the union. I had asked if they were able to get me closer to the $32.
I am wondering if closed ended or open ended questions would be best? It would avoid a no.
Utterly brilliant! "Mr Voss"!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Would you rather get paid your worth or have people like you? Unfortunately my management seemed to deeply resent the base salary I had negotiated as they needed to bump up the rest of the team's base salary. This resulted in them not replacing a team member who was seconded leading to stress and burnout for me and my team. They also did not pay out my full bonus even though I exceeded my stretch. So be careful what you wish for I guess. The irony that they are 1.5million per annum better off thanks to my efforts in the 1.5 yrs I tolerated that place is not lost on me.
Andy, I had a particular situation. I got 2 interviews already with the head of Customers Services and the person who is going to be my boss the Director of Customer Service, my position is Engagement Manager. Those interviews I got them because my previous boss referred me, who is the chieft staff at Pypestream. And Gary the chief of Developers who also worked with me, said good things about me .
The salary range is from 90 k to 110 k, bur because of my 18 years of experience in the field, I think I will bring great value to the company that I am worth of 115k how I will sell me for that amount. This position is not even posted in their website.
Any advice?
What do you do when the required application form states it must be filled in completely to be considered and there is a field for starting and ending salary for each of your previous jobs?
I wonder about that as well 🤔