OI Ancient Languages Workshop | Session 1: Ancient Egypt
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- In our first ancient languages seminar, Foy Scalf, head of the OI Research Archives, discusses ancient Egyptian languages and the Hieroglyphic writing system.
**This is a new link to a video that we had technical difficulties with earlier.
Each Sunday in May, we offer free, at-home seminars examining aspects of the ancient languages studied at the OI. If you miss the video when it goes live, you can always watch at your leisure. Next week, Brian Muhs, associate professor of Egyptology, discusses Meroitic.
If you would like more information on OI adult education classes, please visit: oi.uchicago.edu/courses-works...
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What is impressive is someone with knowledge, who conveys it lucidly, but who carries his learning lightly. Doubly impressive in fact.
14:30 you talk about popular mythes !!? Allegoric meaning is the base !
Then you say:" they are just like english letters." oh my god ! And so much naive people follow you just because of...of wat ?
Champollion say himself he just talk about inscriptions, and not about the walls in temples or tomb "who are full off allegory and metaphors".
There is no better way than "learn by yourself", you can find many champollion text, and first knowing that champollion discovery nothing...just here: ruclips.net/video/_pU1wcfxAzA/видео.html
I'm Egyptian and I'd like to tell you that your lecture is just perfect.
The scope and depth of this "introductory workshop" was astounding, wonderfully informative even for someone who, like me, has some background. Thank you so much!!
At the start he said, "30 minutes or so..." And I thought, yeah, right. It's an hour long. OI is 1st class. You folks are truly enriching the world.
I cant believe I can learn and basically take a free course. I am grateful for this.
Thank you so much from Germany! That was exactly the kind of introduction I always wanted to have. Just great.
Glad you enjoyed this video! We post new ancient language seminars each Sunday in May, and into June. Check back for more!
I think that the interest for ancient egypt is growing and with it the "mystery" of its hieroglyphs. All I ever knew before this seminar was how to spot the name of a king... the cartouche. After this talk I have learned a little more..thank you Foy, it was very interesting and looking forward to more of such seminars.
Thanks for cleaning up the sound so much.
Thanks for being patient with our changes.
Dr. Scalf is a wonderful instructor! I have taken Ancient Egyptian classes from him before. Ancient Egyptian grammar is a blast!!!
Love this talk. I was very surprised when I discovered that old Egyptian language, the hieroglyphs, weren't all that mysterious and difficult like they seemed.
Also, those cursive scripts are beautiful!
Thanks for this. It's a brilliant idea to use the interval of downtime due to you-know-what. The OI is a gem.
The workshop was outstanding and the presenter really made things understandable.
Excellent stuff, very excited to see what future sessions will bring!
Thank you sooooo much. This is AMAZING.
As an amateur I look forward to this! Thanks for making this available to us!
Thank you so much for putting this together! And I second the recommendation that Akkadian (and I would add, Ugaritic!) be a subject in the future.
Wow! That was so interesting and presented in such a clear, concise way. Very easy to understand. Thank you! I really enjoyed this.
Very informative. Thanks for taking so much time to produce this.
This is really nice and comprehensive explanation that ordinary people can understand. Thanks for putting in the effort!
Amazing intro. Thanks
Most illuminating!
Excellent video. Great way for me to introduce myself to hieroglyphics before going to 🇪🇬
Excellent presentation! Thanks.
Congrats! I'd like to see more lessons with intermediate level.
yes! more of these :)
Just started watching, and seriously hoping Sumerian/Akkadian and Cuneform is included in this series =D
And the confusion of languages thereafter.
@@ScottAT LOL
@@ScottAT hehe
so good, thank you.
For my own future reference, the part about the neat all-ram and all-crocodile temple inscriptions starts at 44:40.
Very nicely explained thanks
That was an excellent short introduction. 😊😊😊.
Very informative, did a great job ✅👍✅
Great job 👏🏽
Wonderful insight
This has been very helpful; thank you. Dewa-netjer en-ek
Hi thanks for this!
does anybody have any thing about old coptic like bilingual demotic text or ancient egyptian names/word in contemprary language like the Amarna Letters or any?
Excellent info
The hieroglyphs actually turn out to be a piece of cake to learn and are very high-tech (powerful and simple) under an artsy veneer that intimidates at first. Thanks for bringing out that distilled goodness!
Do the pretty pictures have transcriptional codes like AVIS, PES, etc., similar to the Luwian hieroglyphics? I imagine drawing them out stroke-by-stroke can be a pain.
Thanks Foy for this excellent overview. I was particularly interested in your words on the origin of our word for Egypt. I always thought it was just the Arabic qbt root, I have never heard of this ka' Ptah temple in Memphis. I will amend what I tell people in the future! However, one point: you have included a hamza on an internal alif in one of the Arabic words - I think it was al-aqbat from memory. Your transliteration doesn't include the hamza so I'm assuming it's a mistake. Otherwise, nefer nefer! Thanks! Mark
Great going
Hi I'm from the Philippines. I just want to know how you read the symbols "Two reeds - House - Lasso - quail chick"?
Is there a noose symbol for W in Egyptian Hieroglyphs?
Is there a bird symbol for eh sound?
At first glance at the demotic script I noticed elements of the Koranic Arabic alphabet. Did demotic influence written Arabic or vice versa? Since demotic came into use in the 8th century BC I'm assuming that demotic influenced modern Arabic via the Nabataean/Aramaic script rather than the other way around. Very educational lecture.
At 50:40 : A bit wich a horse holds in his mouth.., you mean the thing wich gets stuffed in the horse mouth..., horses do not put iron pieces in their mouths.., generaly they prefer grass and such.
But i did like the video.., i am a bit surprised you kept the picture frozen with the phone (i h8 u) bit.., but skipped the frames/or stills of this video wich where (imo) more interesting and on subject... ie the hieroglyphs .
Hopefully there be more on hieroglyphs.., cause i did enjoy:)
So I just got to the part about the order in which you can read things and to me it seems very similar to speech bubbles from a comic book the way that they're laid out in a sense at least visually
22:26 notice that the images of the woman has been restored since the start of 1900s. Howevr, the image was not restored to the original darker hue, as represented at 17:00. Left hand side.
Very interesting lesson. As an armchair Egyptologist I would to learn how to read hieroglyphics. But my biggest hang up is understanding the diacritical marks, and how to pronounce them. You gave me some insights when you recited some transliterated text. Is there a video available that presents the pronunciation ? Thanks!
@@fraternitas5117 Thanks, I will.
So absorbing… So brilliantly taught, Interestingly, as a dyslexic person… I can remember patterns to over read (speed read) by grasping the sense of direction the story/or the info direction rather than the detail… so reading H/glif’s seems natural as I see the shapes far better than letters… Writing, is the memory of correct spelling, there I fall down, yet can deciefer gibberish (poor spelling) from anther, (or my own writing) even if it is not the 'exact spelling', just 'certain letters' even out of order, plus context give's me the sentence over all… H/Glif’s seem the same, not all scribes interpreter the H/glifs the same, which may seem to some as being miss spelled, but the ‘meaning remains' which is the point... as i do not read detail... I understand what is being conveyed.. Purist spellers among us cannot do this as they only see (gibberish, or inconsistency) Like asking a trained top keyboardist to deliberately play out of key or to play without music sheet's... Again, For me, I play by ear/from rememering the sound of a key or note, or by use of box cords, and not by strict music notation…
Every time I see a kings' cartouche, it's surrounded by common symbols. Proper pyramid, stepped pyramid, ankh, djed,... Are these symbols actual representations of stature, like a Phd after someone's official title. If so, the pyramid hieroglyphs are self explanatory, but what is the high skill of ankh, and djed pole? Is the ankh a sonic or chime channelling device, and the djed pole an electric Tesla repeater?
Royal names in cartouches are often followed by three hieroglyphs that spell out ʿnḫ.(w) wdꜢ.(w) snb.(w), which is an exclamatory phrase wishing the pharaoh "life (ʿnḫ), prosperity (ḏd), and health (snb)!" The djed-column is often used in the writing of the word ḏd "stability." You regularly see it around pharaohs in scenes where the king is afforded "protection of life (ʿnḫ), stability (ḏd), and dominion (wꜢs)." When you see the pyramid hieroglyph in conjunction with a royal cartouche, it usually means you are looking at the name of a pyramid town, for example in Akhet-Khufu "Horizon of Khufu" or Men-nefer-Pepy "The beauty of Pepi remains."
I began Egyptian with Prof. Caminos at Brown in 1972 and have had an interest in the language since then. I have a quick question; I visited with James Allen several years ago and he said he was going to revise his "Middle Egyptian" particularly with focus on verb forms. I haven't picked up his latest volume, however, and wonder if that was included and if the changes were significant. Any observations? I loved this intro, so well done! Thanks.
Yes, James Allen did update his Middle Egyptian grammar in the third edition. The changes are very significant and follow on his hypotheses as expressed in his article from Lingua Aegyptia 19 (wwwuser.gwdg.de/~lingaeg/lingaeg19.htm ) and his The Ancient Egyptian Language book. In these works, he has suggested to reduce the sḏm=f verbal complex to a single form, for which he accounts for the variable morphology by describing this morphology as a lexical feature. A similar suggestion had appeared in the work of Chris Reintges, although Reintges approached the material from a thoroughly linguistic background (often with heavy influence from the Chomskyan revolution), while Allen's approach remains more traditionally philological, with more modern linguistic elements sprinkled in. Generally, I would say that his new approach has yet to find a wide following among Egyptologists and several articles have appeared contesting it.
@@FoyScalf Thank you for that!! The link is broken (not found). I did get the table of contents, but it costs 99 Euros for that volume. His book would be a lot cheaper ($40). Thanks for taking the time to respond. Peter.
@@peterswift9474 Peter, if you would like to read the article, send me an email (scalffd@uchicago.edu).
oy vey foy may U B 4ever HEART by all hoo sea ur AWESOMENESS.
What is the name for the ancient Egyptian language? The Hittites, Nubians etc. did not call the language "Egyptian". How was it called by their contemporary foreigners?
Absolutely amazing!
Thank you so much
Which book would be best to continue from here, about the Grammer of the Egyptian language?
Thank you so much! The book you choose really depends on exactly what your goals are. If you want to read the "classic" account, it is hard to go wrong with Alan Gardiner's Egyptian Grammar (Third Edition). It trained several generations of Egyptologists. Most of it is still pretty accurate today, although there has been a lot of debate about the verbal system. Although large, it also strikes a nice balance between being comprehensive, but also organized well enough for self study. If you want to see a version of what became known as the "standard theory," James Hoch's Middle Egyptian (Second Edition) gives you a decent introduction to an understanding of the language that uses innovations developed by H. J. Polotsky. Currently, there is an on-going, wide-ranging debate about how to understand the evidence for reconstructing the verbal system. Jim Allen's Middle Egyptian (Third Edition) represents one, rather unique take on it, and Peter Beylage's Middle Egyptian offers another take, with some of its own idiosyncracies. Each scholar tends to have a slightly different understanding. If you want more of a linguistic overview, Antonio Loprieno's Ancient Egyptian and Jim Allen's The Ancient Egyptian Language are very good places to start. If you are at the very, very beginning, and you just want something to get you started, Mark Collier and Bill Manley, How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs offers a very accessible introduction to the basics of the language that will give you the ability to partially read inscriptions you often encounter in museum collections. Hope that helps!
@@ISAC_UChicago Thank you so much!
service!!
definitely overwhelming for somebody not versed in this field
At 48:29 you say "synonymous roots" but you probably meant to say "homophonous roots", don't you?
Gabriel P. Rosa Indeed! Thanks!
6:50 ... shorter time periods.... each one longer than most current countries exist for.
The length over which ancient egypt existed continously (with a few hiccups) is just forever mind boggling...
As if the fact that they used signs in both directions, having to mirror them all. As if the system wasn't complicated (and probabaly very time consuming) enough.
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3:40
*BCE and CE.
The Medu Netcher was renamed by the Greeks to Hieroglyphics....start there.
Thank you, hotep !!!
Internecine brought me here.
It occurs to me that the Egyptian writing systems are comparable to Old English or Middle English before the languages were standardized with dictionaries. Would this be appropriate?
No
Suzanne, despite Hector's emphatic and rather rude "no", I think the transition from the Demotic writing system to the Coptic system might be comparable to the transition from the Old English Runic writing system to the use of the Latin alphabet. Just as it took centuries to standardize the use of the Greek alphabet in Coptic Egyptian, it probably took centuries to standardize the spelling of English words and grammar, given the Germanic sounds and grammar in English that didn't exist in Latin. But this is just my guess, and I'm certainly no expert...
@@suchanhachan if you're referring to Norse runes, those and Latin both come out of the Italic script. Almost every alphabet comes out of Medu Neter
Grace…
I have a theory of how the pyramids were built.
Dr. Mario Beatty teaches how to read. Look him up.
Sorry but at first I thought the title was Ol' Ancient Language etc ... silly me!
Afro asiatic language group slide looks very superficial where for the sake of neatness asiatic and African languages were somehow combined in a pretty table. They can not be any MORE different. Dinko tribes are speaking language far more different than Hebrew and yet modern ‘progressive’ manage to put them as one big family separated in time and space.
...aaaaand it is not included in the Afroasiatic chart he shows. The "Afro' in "Afroasiatic" doesn't mean the entire African continent. Maybe if you weren't on the lookout for lurking "progressive" ideas you wouldn't make such a mistake. BTW - of course languages within a family will be separated in time and space; time and space separations happen *within a language* let alone a language family. For example, English covers more than one time and place.
4:07 Your board makes non sens. You supposed that the arabic came after the hebrew, when we know all that the hebrew got less than 100 years old, when sionists build a new hebrew language based upon the ywdish language. So, the arabic appeared suddenly when Islam appeared ? See the non sens ? In the same way than egyptian, there is an early hebrew, middle one, and late one. The same for arabic.
You speak into black holes.
@@ItsCheechFool It was not adress to your holes.
O period I period. Because OI is shouting HEY. OI YOU. Come on people. Also, a workshop is a shed. Lesson, Seminar, Lecture, tutorial, Show etc. Ironically this "thing" is about language. Back to basics for you lot. Your expertise already in doubt.
@35:19 "Nfr" (Nefer) does NOT determine "beautiful, good, or perfect". "Nfr" is "the bearer", the Messiah, HoKek
It is the determinative of "HoKek" and/or "MeHoKek".
"Nfr" is "fero" in Latin and phero in ancient Greek.
More commonly in English we recognize it as the suffix "-fer" or "-ifer" as in Christopher (bearer of Christ) or "Lucifer" (bearer of Luc/Light)
In the Sixth Dynasty King Pepi II was called Neferkare (Nfr Ka Re - "bearer of the light/soul of Re")
The Land of Keki called Kekistan is from Khemenu to Elephantine.
HMNW called Khemenu is Shmun and Khmun too.
Khemenu is Khn n and Khmun is Eshmun which is Ashmun who is Ishma El of El Ashmunein
Khemenu is Shomayim and Thamanim and Shamanim called Cemaium too
The Ogdoad are the eight of the ark and the thrice born son is the bearer of light
Those of the Ogdoad are the Ogygians and Amonians too.
MeHoKek is the lawgiver and HoKek is He Sus just as HoKek is HoKhanan too.
HoKhanan son of Salome had a brother Yaakov called HaKeb of Heliopolis and Jacob and HaMes, Hermes and James too.
When the Sixth Dynasty fell, 70 Kings ruled for 70 days in the 7th dynasty
These 70 nations of Khem, Hm, Ham and Shem too
Elephantine is Abu Ra of Ham and Yebu of the Jebusites and Land of Khmun who is Khn n and Eshmun/Ashmun too.
King Pepi lives forever in the tree of life with the Morning Star
The Gospel of the "Egyptians" is Ogygian and Amonian too.
Provide a source for this claim
@@dctaughtme3371 - You'll have to be more specific as which "claim" you are speaking of but I can, and will, provide multiple sources for each.
@@kekistanipatriot1644 start at the top and work down, in order. One at a time is all I'm asking.
@@dctaughtme3371 - From the top. The claim that Nfr (Nefer) means "bearer" and/or "Messiah"
There is no source except that of the E1b1b M78 subclade V12 Kekistani Kekbaal Keepers just as there.is no source, beyond Gardiner's conjecture on which the Orential Institute relies.
However, the hieroglyph for "Nfr" (F35) is the source of our modern consception of Christ resembling a bearded man.bearing a cross.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nefer
The concept of the "Son of God" and/or " the bearer of light".has it's origins at HMNW (Khemenu) and the Land of Keki from Khemenu to Elephantine NOT modern Lower "Egyptian" origin.
He would later be associated with "Heru" or "Horus" and "Kouros" (Kouroi).
Heliopolis and Athens (Kekropis) respectively.
Now, let us examine the uses of "Nfr"
1) "Nfr" is ONLY used in a title or name. For example, NeferKaRe (king Pepi II) and it's variants Nefertari, Nefertiti, Neferhotep, Nefertem
2) it is clearly a PREFIX and/or an adjective that works much like a determinative denoting a very specific concept.
For example,
NeferKaRe means both "Bearer of the Light" or "Son.of God".
Likewise, Nefertem also denotes "Son of God" aka: The Messiah
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nefertem
"Nfrw" on the other hand determines a PLACE or the place of the Messiah.
I think what I will do before wasting a bunch of time on someone who is lazy or incompetent is have you do a text search for "MeHoKek" both on Google and archive.org
I will require you to tell me what you find concerning the meaning of MeHoKek and HoKek (HoKak)
I can assure you I am a E1b1b M78 subclade V12 Kekistani Kekbaal Keeper and possess the knowledge of my people of Ancient times incliding that of the E1b1b M78 subclade V13 Kekropic tribe.of the Thracian Hebrus and Attica too. Those known as the Ogygians and HaNebu (from Nbwt)
Maybe I should test your knowledge of the temple spoken of in the PETITION TO BAGOAS or maybe a more abstract understanding of The CROSS OF THE FROG and the BERKELEY MARDI GRAS PARADE should be required.
I mean I wouldn't send you blindly into the night. I would first arm you with the knowledge of Khemenu called Khmun and Shmun and Shmunien in Coptic
I would equip you with the understanding that Khmun is Khn n called Canaan too
I would make sure you knew the hegoat and scapegoat is HoKhanan called John of Revelation and that the Romans called Khemenu "Mercury" too
www.cityofsmoke.com/archives/285
www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib70.htm
www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2011-03-09/article/37468
@@kekistanipatriot1644 You're nutṣ
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