Should you get a CCVM Reflux Still? Reviewing my still
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- Опубликовано: 23 янв 2019
- People ask me all the time, "should I build a CCVM still?" or "should I buy a CCVM still?".
I have been using my one for well over a year now. So I think its time to review it.
Spoiler alert: The CCVM is still the best choice for a beginner (IMHO)
13 gal / 50 L milk can style boiler:
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2 inch stainless pipe with ferrules attached:
amzn.to/2RLCYAz
Stainless 2 inch / 51 mm 3way T with ferrules:
amzn.to/2S039mF
90 degree 2 inch stainless pipe with ferrules:
amzn.to/2MveiX8
Shotgun condenser (7 core):
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3 core:
amzn.to/2MsPOOm
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Just in case you didn’t realize I often include affiliate links in my videos and descriptions.
This will not change the price for you at all, But the seller will buy my a cup of coffee if you purchase from one of the links. Choice eh? 
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If I was in your neighborhood I'd have to knock on your door so I could say thank you for all your videos. This video was especially illuminating for me. I operated distillation columns while working in an oil refinery and it is awesome to see such similar technology here. I am definitely impressed!
Love your videos, your systematic approach has helped me understand what's going on in my favourite whiskeys. I've used a water distiller as a simple pot still and made a partial grain based whiskey that I am finishing with toasted red oak (local lumber yard), and I'm amazed at how much it's changed from the first week until now 2+ months later.
Keep up with the weird experiments. I really liked the different wood experiment. I'd love to see a follow up on that one if they're still around.
The last one minute of this should be the opening shots to all your videos. fantastic.
Awesome video bud I have a reflux and have learned a bunch from you and actually put my 1st gen of ujssm down a week ago. So much info from you keep it up and thank you.
Love the last one minute
just about to embark on my own belfast home made still .loving your vids a wealth of knowledge .
Awesome! Enjoy )
There is so much variables between size of your column and the heating output. When I build my still I put a valve between the dephlegmatore and the shotgun condenser which help me to control the reflux. I did hit the threshold of my 2 inch column. This is a very good topic to touch on that I’m experiencing right now! Could be a good debate!
Great video as always Jesse! You've always had a way of giving us the dumbed down version for us back woods moonshiners. Keep'em coming!
Thanks mate, sure it's not just that you are watching a dumb channel? Haha. Cheers mate
Right!
Awsome still. always worth the watch time good ideas to think about
Great overview Jessie, Thanks
Awesome info. I picked up a cheap but nice column from mile high distilling in the US for my keg boiler set up. It has a little (closed top) CCVM-ish deal at the top, I need to give it a go as soon as I pick up a valve to control it. So far I love it for neutrals. Haven't the ran the column for whisky yet.
I'm glad you have not found any hitches with it as I modeled mine on it.
Mine is inch and three quarters or 44mm but the 50L keg is large enough for any wash I'll make so i don't have to do striping runs and It's easily fast enough for spirit runs.
I didn't go to the expense of making it modular I soft soldered it to look like yours though being 44mm my shotgun is only a triple.
It was easy to do and works a treat, Thanks.
Wound my first coil yesterday, 1/4" copper. Followed the guide on HD using the 16mm and 31mm tubes as formers, clamped the 16mm in the lathe and went at it(because it's easier to hold the bigger chuck than it is a tiny tube). Most flattening I got was on the transition to the outer coil, but only minor. If I have to do another one, I'll probably go 8" instead of 6", and single coil with a cold finger.
Great video, really enjoyed the walk-thru. I've always wondered why the vapor doesn't escape out the top of the column so you explanation was good; however, I still worry about that (LOL)!
Hahaha, yeah it's weird eh!
If you go to a 3 inch column you'll be able to run heaps faster and you can use the regular 2inch port and just get a converter/expander. You'll have to either make a bigger coil combined with a reducer so you can stay 2inch on top, or get a 3inch Tee with a 2inch product output (better). The new coil can be stainless steel dryer line, which is much easier to manipulate and has more surface area than copper of the same size.
The idea is, your reflux will be much more efficient with a 3inch column, and it's easier to adjust the coil as the 'butter' zone is much larger. The additional volume in your column will also let you run quite a bit faster so you could potentially do it in one go.
This video was a pleasure to watch that still is a work of art 😜
Nice stuff - I've been looking at starting a new still build since I'm just using the dinky Copperhead pot still setup. I've always liked your setup so this is some good tips and insight. cheers man
Cool man! Hope it works out awesome!
Looking at getting the copperhead pot still myself to get me started would you recommend it for learning on and then building bigger and better later on?
Yeah it was a good intro but it conked out on me pretty quickly and the manufacturer just said f off. First the seals went and then the 2kw element went.
If you can, I'd recommend something like Jesse's setup or something modular from Dragon Stills or places like that. but the Copperhead was a good vessel to learn on
@@newzanadian-tom7996 Thanks for the heads up and advice, will keep looking into it, would be nice to have a still while building one so I don't get tempted to rush/cut corners because I want to get it up and running. plus starting laying some product down for aging earlier rather than later would be nice. Cheers
Happy Distilling!
I enjoy watching your vids and nice rig you got,
Cheers mate 🥃. One of those hobbies though, always wanting to upgrade.
Having just upgraded to a 4 inch flute/column/bubble plate still the speed of production is a thing of joy. No more multiple strips then spirit runs when doing flavoured products. 1 run and you have a finished product ready for ageing. Control is magic, for example right now I am filling a 50l barrel with single malt. I have selected the abv where I find my best flavours and run to that. Keep saving up your hobby money I recommend banging in some plate sections, and you are on your way to something very different.
Id be curious to see your setup. Are you going from the 2" flange on top of the keg to a 4" column? How many bubble plates are you running? How tall is your column? Sounds like a nice setup!
2inch from standard keg top into a 2 to 4inch reducer. 4 x 4 inch bubble cap tee sections. First section of still.is 4 inch then it comes over the top into shotgun condenser in all 2 inch pipe. For flavoured spirit it is approx 1.8m tall and with packed section for neutral it is approx 2.4m tall.
Awesome video as usual Jesse. The nearest sizable town to me is about 60 K's. So i brought a ready made complete kit. Problem is i am on tank water so i have to recycle my water for the still, lucky for me a chest freezer was available. I have alot of fruit trees to make wines and spirits from. Just gotta beat the possums to the fruit. Thanx Jesse. All the best to you and the whanau.
That sounds amazing man! I'd love to have that much fruit on the property!
For coiling copper you can close one end by soldering, fill the tube with water and the solder the other end too. It will just as easy as using sand or salt filler but the water will get out by itself when you open the tube.
Mate!!!! Love your videos ....Always informative....I have just built a Frankenstein just like yours got all of the parts from Stlll Dragon......Wanted to upload a photo for you but as yet haven't worked that out.......Doing a cleaning run this arvo.....
Love those plates
@Still It great video ! What is CCVM?
CCVM. Condenser Controlled Vapor Management: A type of reflux still which is controlled by a movable cooling coil instead of of a valve typical for a VM still.
Thanks for the explanation! Answered a lot of questions I had. One thing I’d like to ask is about braising the stainless ferrules onto copper....how? I tried it with regular solder for copper piping and it never seemed to hold. Perhaps it’s using the right flux??
Great video. Later on I’m going to do a lot of upgrades, I would love to see a video on you upgrading your still!!
Yeah mate, upgrades will happen hahaha.
That slowmo🤩🤩
Hey gotta say never really thought of it but never seen you run a thermometer before you usually go by sound an feel for it that's one thing I all ways liked about your videos first I ever seen a thermometer on your still
Yeah it is the first one I have had, and it's mostly there for looks right now hahaha. It came part and parcel with the sight glass. In saying that, more info is always good.
I absolutely love your channel - I've learned so much and your clear passion for the subject has fed my own obsession! I do have a question - do you remove the packing when running in pot still mode? I've read in forums about the packing offering a small amount of passive reflux.
That’s really good, was browsing through your videos. I have a keg still without welding like that, 2” setup and pretty much a baby still compared to all the piping in that one. You MUST do a 4” video cause I’m upgrading or if you have any links. Great video been subbed for over a year now.
Hey bro love ur channel
I’m a apprentice sparky in a electrical and refrigeration company with access to various copper bits and pieces
I’m looking to build a still based on yours which is exciting my question is with all the spare copper cable we have in our recycling bin can u use cable copper mainly flex cable( fine thin strands but thick cable ) as packing for my column??? After stripping the insulation obviously
Not sure if it leaves some sort of chemicals when they insulate it?
I would probably run it thru a vinegar run first to be safe
Cool still
great information. = )
Nice one bro
Well I found that if you pack the copper tubing with sugar it let's you bend without crimping. Then all you need to do is hang it upside-down in a oven heat it slowly until the sugar melts out. No blockage no crimps and perfect bends.
I used coarse salt to bend a 1/4" coil. worked awesome.
Salt works too but you can reuse the sugar in the next batch.
Salt resolves in water easier than accidentally clogging a line with melted sugar
Plus with salt you hook up the coil to the tap and turn it on full pressure, might be blocked, but eventually dissolves the salt and works it's way through and clears out
Sand works too
Wrap tubing under the out port. Then adjust flow? Saw that on barley and hops brewery channel. Especially the one on his reflux still
Thank You
A most welcome video since coverage is sketchy in your Build playlist.
I like a simple pot still for making whiskey and brandy. It seems to me that your CCVM design with no packing and no Graham condenser on top is still allowing some reflux as the column wall cools the vapor. Reflux leads to higher proof but less flavor. So, when is a column still running in “pot mode” not really a pot still but a de-tuned column still? Any thoughts?
this is my go to page, sorry george! i think i am going to copy your tower in 2" with shot gun condenser. i have a t500. it works good. since i am retired i make hand sanitizer, now i can have for fun, thx jessie from yuma AZ
The very first thing I made was the heat exchanger (the coil). They are super simple to make. Take your copper, fill it with water, put a couple plastic capplugs on each end and put it in the freezer overnight. The water will freeze and expand and leave you with a stiff tube that you can then form around another pipe. If you work too slow and the water begins to thaw just pop it back in the freezer. No kinks, super tight coils and spacing and you can get away with some pretty radical twists.
Instead of varying your coil exposure at the head why not just vary the flow rate in the coil?
Cheers mate, I may actually give that a go next time.
I guess the idea is that it can be tricky to alter water flow accurately and consistently. Our water pressure fluctuates by about 150% regularly :s
So you can crank the water and adjust via position. In saying that I have not tried running a still with coolant flow.
Great video Jesse, what I would like to know is how is the performance as a pot still and reflux. I've watched most all of your videos, but In Curious is the nvm a "Jack of all traid master of none?"
Hi Jesse, can you please tell me which thermometer you used what brand and why did you went larger on the sight glass is there a specific reason, I also have a ccvm still but
cannot read the temp correctly I have a tee at the top right side where I attach my thermometer can you please tell me if you correctly read the temp with this setup. thanks.
thank you
Hey brother... If you put a mini shotgun condenser just below the exit point above the sight glass and adjust the water flow with a valve you could just cap the top... Also getting a better reflux and control of your product... Cheers!!!
Yeah, have though about adding a dephlag. Cheers mate 🥃
Could you leave the sight glass in and still run it in pot mode?
Cheers and thanks for the great videos.
Yeah on the furrule you can get freaking sick machined copper furrules now if you are soldering them on fit really nice put 2 on my column have 2 for my shotgun condenser I'm really happy with them
Awesome! Reasonable price?
21 dollars for 2 inch on eBay and and hiproof products that's a website and also the seller on eBay they make brass in the same design (lead free)it fits on the outside of the pipe and fits flush on the inside of the pipe i looked at the 4 inch for possibly building a plated column still like 4 bubble plates yeah look at RNW Distilling has videos building stills with his products on here
@@shawnwhitesel7104 You can make your own flange in under 20 minutes using the copper pipe itself and some solder. Use the money you save to buy a PTFE gasket and tri clamp.
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27056
Just another approach to save money. Cheers!
Yeah I know i was interested in the products enough to step up to the plate to get a good look at the design and dimensions to try out the products for myself and decide if the quality is there and if i want to use them in up coming build
Dude! Thanks again for an awesome video! I’m in the process of building my still now and I think I’ll be changing up a lot of my design based on what you told us. If I’m distilling wine/mead, would I still want to run it as a pot still in order to keep the original flavors?
I would run it in pot still mode for those.
Glad they help mate :)
@@StillIt a tip for bending kink free tube.. wind into large loops.. then plug one end & fill with water.. plug other end & freeze it.. will NOT kink even for tight tight loops & bends.. cheers from nz.. kiwi to kiwi
Sir, a quick question if you had a dephlegmator on this design would you put your sight glass at the top of the column below the deplegmator or install it on top of it. Hopefully you or someone could chime in with their opinion. I realize this was an old video just hoping to get lucky you see the comment.
The ferrule flanges stand alone without the pipe, where do you get these? They aren't in the links.
Are you still using this setup or have you upgraded to 4 inch I just finished my 3 inch column build using tri clamps so I can change over easier also but I use a reflux chamber instead so I can have better control.
Love your Chanel, Can I go from 2 inch at the boiler to 4 inch colom say 90cm high and reduce to half inch liebig condencor will I achieve the time saving benifit
Hi Jesse, I'm in NZ too. Where did you manage to get the 2 inch copper pipe?
Cheers
I think you could put a restrictor at the horizontal T to Lyne arm joint that could be a drilled copper plate to what ever ratio you want.
Had no idea what a ccvm was, was just about to pause and google it then you started explaining what it is lol
Ayyyyeeeeee how's that for timing!
Hi jessie or anyone that can help. All the sight glass that I can find contains silicon. Is there any without? Is it a concern?
The sight glass provides a lot of options as you say. I would definitely add a bubble plate and procaps from still dragon or build yourself.
A couple of naive/stupid questions... When running as a cvvm reflux still is the top of the column effectively open to the air (no pressure)? ... and if so how do you keep from losing alcohol right out the top? Second question... Is it alcohol vapor or liquid that is going off the t-joint to the shotgun condenser. Is there anything at the same height as the T joint in the column that is helping the alcohol head down the correct path or is it a matter of half goes in one direction half goes in the other.... and coming back to the .misunderstanding in the first question where the top is open on the column how is the steam force to go down the shotgun condensor to be condensed if there is no pressure in the column. It seems like I can build this very easily from sanitary fitting and flexible tubing for the column condensor, plus buy a shotgun condensor outright... If the column is 3" should the T and shotgun also be 3"... If 50/50 is the target it seems like they should be an equal diameter ( but I still don't see why the steam is going to go sideways and down without some kind of pressure driving it. doh! thanks for the videos, and your patience.
thks,
r
Hey Jesse, what diameter tubing are you using for the reflux coil in your setup?
Hello love your vids
Where did you get the copper tube from?
Cheers
Corn, corn malt, sugar, and water. This is all I want to use, give me your opinion on a mash formula using only these components.
Thanks
Howzit mate tell me what is the purpose of the white box behind the still and how do you manage the temperature of the elements. love your channel. Starting to get everything together to start myself. Ps Hope I didn't miss it in the video. thanks
Awesome! Nice to hear you are getting close now.
It is a manual controler for the electric elements in the pot :)
Whats the most you run through it? Neutrals? Rum,whiskey?
Hey Jessy, the coil insert is always open, running the still in reflux modei guss wright?
Can you run it with sight glass in place and still be Pot still?
Can you use top coil flowrate instead of moving the coil?
How long are you getting 90-95% ? What is your normal wash you run
love the Reviewing of the still
Jesse - What are your thought on having a thermometer on a CCVM still?
Don't go for a Boka LM... Just add a gate valve between your T and your shotgun and you get VM, the coil should not be too low otherwise it'll cool down your SS T junction. You could connect the shotgun outlet to the coil inlet... The thermometer should be at the centre of your T junction, but it's too late now... Your column is a bit too short 120cm would be fine , isolate your column too, up to the T junction (all IMHO)
Nixon & McCaw's "The Complete Distiller" will be very helpful.
So pleased you've explained how the top works. I've been wondering how the vapour doesn't escape for a while. Can you show us the cooling element at some point so we can see the size and composition of it please?
Yeah for sure mate! I may actually remake it, so I have a video of it :)
I'm sure I've watched all your videos at least once now and can't remember seeing you mess with the reflux condenser? You mention it can be frustrating. Have I missed a vid or are you not showing that part? Always happy to watch one of your vids so if it's there please direct me. Thanks for the great vids I've learned so much from you 👍👊🏻👌🏻
Ah, you have already covered it: My first spirit run / What is reflux. I didn't know what I was watching first time around!
@@mitchmitcheson3287
Check this out forum.moderndistiller.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=4646 using CSST as Reflux and Product Condenser, I went this way and its really easy to do.
@@morse2279 Need to join that forum to see the pictures. Glad you found it useful.
Is the top open? How dpoes the alchol vapor not leak out?
Will more plates ( copper mesh) help raise proof?
PLEASE how did you bend your copper coil yourself without kinking???
The reason why vapor doesn’t push out the top is because the condensing vapor creates space. Vaporizing expands the material, condesneing reduces it back to original liquid volume, thus you have no pressure and are in balance. Heat is being removed through the reflux process if one wants to know where that is going.
Wow! Babyface! I saw this older video and had to jump in to view.
Do you run a Pid temperature controller???
60cm 2” column is really short bro. Get more length in your stalk and you’ll find the system is so easy to stabilise. I use the sightglass on my CCVM to monitor the level of condensate bubbling away on top of the packing. I boost the heating to the point where I can maintain a constant level of the bubbling condensate - that way I know I am running at optimal heating as far as the amount of packing used. I’ve got a vid on my channel showing what that looks like (@ 1460 W). 1.2 litres per hour at azeotrope
I got a relative in the States to send me some Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing CCST, that I used for my Reflux Condenser. It was so easy to twist up. I wove a SS pot scrubber in the “coil” to add more cooling surface area and to help bridge the gap between the walls of the column and the RC
Yeah man, I really do need to get a extension for that! I have heard a lot of good things about the CCST, will have to try it out.
get on to the kale recipe for the cheapest cleanest neutral!
for a regular fermenter pail
25 grams kale pureed in a litre or so of water
5 kg of raw sugar
1/3 cup of baker’s yeast and
1/3 cup of crushed shell grit for pH buffering
ferments are done in 7-10 days yielding 8-10% ABV
Hey Kimbo! Glad to see you spreading the good word about CCVM.
It may be worth saying that type L copper does not fit the ferrules. I had to grind away on all the copper to have them fit properly. Type M or type DMV will fit the ferrules very nicely.
Very good point man! I got lucky with mine, but nice to know the actual types! Thanks mate.
Sure thing. Great video by the way. Congrats on your 1 million.
Thanks mate 👍🥃
there are 48mm and 51mm sized ferrules on aliexpress (that fit the standard 64mm/2" tri clamps). All the scrap 2" copper I found had a 49mm inner diameter so I got the 48mm ones.
My wash still is 30l andbi only used 28mm coloum and i used 15and 22 mm for the concencer , it seem to make great spirit but yours is only twice the size but your tube is 4 times the volume figuring out if mine is too small
Nice man, I think "too small" is relitive mate. It's fine, but bigger will be faster.
@@StillIt yeah i just dump 2kVA into it and its fine , spirit i run at 1kVA
@ 2:42 .... ready to get stuck into it eeh? Glencairn glass right next to the new make jar :D
Hi looked at the buy options you listed in description but they do not ship to nz is there anywhere else you can buy them from?
Ah yeah, sorry mate. A majority of people are in the USA. So I link there. What is it you are after mate? Honestly, foor random still parts Aliexpress is hard to beat down here.
For those who are wondering what CCVM means: Condenser Controlled Vapor Management still.
My friend asked me to make vodka what would you use to make,a nuatra spirit
Is the copper mess acting like your bubbler but better or is it way different all to gather
Kinda, it gives a large surface area for the vapour and reflux to interact with each other on. It acts more like an array of bubble plates than a thumper.
Is there any reason this build could not be entirely made from tri clamp components using PTFE gaskets? They seem cheap enough on Aliexpress. Cheers
Yup you could for sure. But you will need copper in there somewhere.
Wow you look totally different with out the beard lol nice sight glass expansion chamber
Hahah, yeah. Cut it off when the twins were little. Its semi back now.
My reflux column is different. It mounts right on top of the main column and is controlled by the amount of water going through it all the way from no reflux to full reflux. I'd share some pics but no way to add pics on here that I know of
I know the setup you mean. Yeah no way to put a image here. But hit me on FB or insta :)
That is called a Cooling Management still. As a design, it is very commonly used but is not favoured by those-in-the-know, Liquid Management stills like the Bokakob or Vapour Management stills are considered to provide a distiller more control. The Condenser-Controlled Vapour Management still (CCVM) Jesse demonstrates is a much better option than the janky commercial CM stills commonly available
I can get 95% everyday all day long if thats what I want to do. or whatever I want above about 70% through the entire hearts run
When you start the still, do you bring it up to temp and let the methanol out first then lower the coil to reflux/return liquid alcohol back down the column? Or do you reflux for a certain period of time the start your run pulling of the heads?
I have tried both ways.
I do think there is some benifit to going back to 100% reflux for a while at a few stages. Before "fores", then between fores and heads and then again before hearts.
Its a lot of extra time though. At the end of the day really its not a huge gain in terms of the amount of acceptable product you will collect. So I think its really up to you how much time you want to put into it.
@@StillIt thanks bro.. I was concerned that if one just refluxes from the very start, you are essentially churning the methanol back into the wash instead of extracting immediately. As I understand, the methanol has the first evap temp, then Ethanol, then water.
I assumed you come to temp, evacuate the methanol, then reflux a while, the let it come off as product, and do so until you hot the low wines.
Yeah in the process of building a 2 inch combo pot and reflux for a shotgun condenser to put together yet hey congrats on the 1mill views on still it
Awesome man! Hope it turns out dope. Thanks man, pretty crazy haha.
How is the reflux sealed in the chamber how does in not escape right out the top?
It is all condensed. So gravity keeps it in there.
@@StillIt yea i feel retarded asking after i watch your video threw to the end lol i love watching and learning things and putting my twist on things
Im in the united states so i convert alot of your stuff lol i like the clear expansion chamber you have that is nice
Building one now
I built a 3 inch using stainless steel sanitary spools and fittings. I went with a dimroth condenser. Both RC and PC use CSST (Corragated Stainless Steel Tubing). So far I've only used it in pot still mode.
Nice Phillip!
Cool stevesart! I think I may need to check out the CSST some time. Work well for you?
@@StillIt Works great and easy to work with.
lel at around 15:55 'stepping up from 2x 4kwh to 2x 4kwh' ^^D wonder what the actual intention was... like upgrade to 2x 8kwh? or was the original only 2x 2kwh?
But seriously: thx for explaining stuff in a idiot-proof way. i had never even heard about ccvm before stumbling over your channel and didn't even know what a reflux still was. I had seen still with bubble plates and all, but had no clue what the heck was going on there. I really only knew the simple pot-still design from chemistry class and moonshiners. ^^)
Hey mate, quick question on the diameter equals speed thing. Having a larger diameter column allows you to do faster runs I understand but is this only for stripping? It doesn't make sense to me that you'll get quicker runs on a spirit run in either a reflux or pot still since you kind of aim for 2 to 3 drops per second or broken stream? A 3" or 4" column doesn't make 2 to 3 drops per second somehow go faster does it?
How's it mate, it's only in relation to reflux, not pot stills.
I know it sounds a bit weird here is the way I can think about it. A reflux colum eventually allows you to distill multiple times at once. Having a wider colum let's you create more of those distillations in tandom. Basically it's like adding another column.
So the 3 drops per second one thing is great advice for a certain size of still with a certain build. But every time the build changes the ideal rate will change.
@@StillIt sweet! Makes more sense now. Thanks for the reply! Keep up the awesome vids!
I see you gave yourself a trim 🍻. Don’t you have a old video talking about your still?
Yeah I kinda did it I think. But it was weak hahaha
At the rate commercial spirits are being Taxed home stills have a very promising future.
Question: How would I run a shotgun condenser without electricity?
Sorry not too sure what you mean? The only electricity I am using is to heat the boiler. You can heat the boiler with gas if its set up for it.
@@StillIt sorry I meant a leibeg condenser. More specifically how would I run the pond pump to cool down the vapors without electricity.
Solar
As far as I know, it is still not legal to home brew distilled alcohol in the USA. Has anything changed I am not aware of?
Nope, its still federally illegal but legal in a few states. Although that is something a lot of us would like to have influence over. A lot of great things can happen if its legalised.
But I live in New Zealand. Totally legal for personal use here. It has been for a while now. And a great example of how safe it can be.
Damn you without the beard