If someone wants to back breed create a bloodline do father to daught or grandfather to granddaughter any other way can cause issues. One should never breed mother to son or brother to sister unless you want possible issued. The way it should be done, questions just look at wild animals they show you how to line breed with no issues. The way he builds a line is not the way it should be done.
Hey man, hope your health is all good and you’ve been in recently for your cough, my uncle thought he just had a regular cough, ended up having lung cancer. Thank you for the video and god bless!
Best video on RUclips by far on line breeding 👌 southern triple j did a good video on breeding pittbulls also the other video on this channel did a while ago is also a very good video
Thank you ❤ so much! You are the real deal. Thanks for sharing and teaching this. I desire to become a breeder and you are educating me and inspiring me
Very good explanation. This concept is called back-breeding and is what is used to start most breeds. But once a breed is already established, this is no longer necessary. More typically done is 3-2 or 2-3 (aunt to nephew or uncle to niece). You also see combinations like 2-4, which is the sire of the male is the great grandsire of the female, or combinations like 4-5,5,. The method shown establishes a line and a breed very quickly, but it doubles up not only on the good genes but also on the recessive genes and is a double edge sword. Another method is 3-1 or a grand father back to his own grand-daugther. Again, this is all close, but if done too often can cause loss of hybrid vigor. It creates a concept called "pre-potency" where a dog that is 7/8th of one particular ancestor if bred to a female with an unrelated pedigree would "outpower" that pedigree and pass himself forward in time. Thanks for sharing. Good information.
agree would love to hear more from you. especially does that last part mean you could introduce a 3rd breed that has characteristics you like into the line?
Is there any dog breed that is same as Great Pyrenees in term of size, behavior but is suitable for warm/ hot climate? I need livestock guardian dog, not herding dog, to guard pastured livestock in central Mississippi. Really need the dog to be big size so it can exert dominance and keep bigger livestock in line, but without all the biting, and constant barking like with herding dogs. If not, then I may need to create a line out of Great Pyrenees. But is it possible without the Great Pyrenees with hot climate tolerance? If so, how? Thanks in advanced.
very informative video. I think if examine the breeding of Horand von Grafrath, the foundation dog of the GSD breed and his brother Luchs and his son Beuowolf, a similar program was used to develop the German Shepherd initially.
If you have a game apbt and breed it to a mastiff, would the pups lose all gameness until bred back to the apbt? In other words, could the apbt/mastiff pups produce some game pups with the apbt bring 50%?
Generally, gameness will be lost in a cross, but there are a few occasions it can remain. Game mastiffs are EXTREMELY rare, but there are a few. I would not bet on finding one. In 24 years of working mastiffs, I have only seen one.
This question is very in-depth, but the higher the standards the better as long as you pay attention to how the dog is handling it. What is it depends on what you desire from the animal. How often depends on the dog’s recovery time.
Great information sir, greetings from me 🙏🏾 and I have a question for you ... If I have gone through the line breeding process and got the results, then how could I maintain the quality of the offspring from that broodstock (the result of line breeding)? How to keep the same quality for the offspring? Is it permissible for me to breed that offspring likes breeding the siblings? Love&peace from Bali 😇
If you haven’t already could you show how you would line breed off of a female? I know most people do them off of males because it’s easier but I’m curious of the formula to build of a female.
I think he said he could do that but he would lose too much size as Frankie is already more on the pitbull side. He wants to maintain the bandog size which is bigger for this particular program.
Hello, i looked up about breeding because i have two german shepherds Male 3yrs old and a female 1.5 years old. They have the same parents, but are 7 generations apart. Ive been good keeping them apart through 3 heats, this is her 4th heat and they mated. Is this ok? They both have good temperament and intelligent.
As long as the common parent is an exceptional individual, then half-sibling breedings are fine. But, if that common parent has any issues, expect those issues to pop up when you double breed on that individual.
Lee in regards to inbreeding & line breeding… Say you have pups from litter A - some have defects from recessive genes so they would be culled - would you continue to breed the healthy pup from litter A to Frankie? (I assume you would otherwise how would you improve.. but just making sure) Also after line breeding for three generations all dogs I assume by the third generation they would be extremely healthy & fit - but say you outcross for the 4th generation and that introduces recessive genes again that you just worked 3 breedings to get rid of, do you just line breed and cull again, restarting the process or move into 3-2, 4-2, 4-5 back massing on the pedigree? These are questions more related to pure breed dogs (corsos and presas).
gender is irrelevant for the most part. A female does contribute the mitochondrial DNA, but that is about only about 1% of our total DNA...so I would not get hung up on trading 99% for 1%. Instead, just use quality specimens with known history.
I would not use a dog if I didn’t know at least a generation or two of the pedigree..& if that is all I knew those would have to be some seriously high quality working dogs.
My guess is when the original male gets to old and his male offspring are to young or maybe to tight for the job a new male takes over. At least that's my not even close to an expert guess.
I have done parent bred to offspring before without any issues. Father x daughter...& Mother x son is basically no different as long as the dogs bred are not carrying any sex linked genetic disorders. Just make sure both dogs are healthy and know the lineage well before proceeding.
@@APBT-Bandog We've done Family breeding for over 30 year's off family bred from long before us, Never an Issue like many say as long as you use Quality Healthy K9s Dude has shared some Gems for those Who aren't aware Wishing Em All the Luck
@@rorydevlin3617 thanks..I was thinking with both offspring receiving 50% dna from father. If the siblings were to produce pups they'd be 75% as 25% would be carried over from the 50 from brother to sister mating lol
Is it true that when brothers mate , the babies are born with deformities such as cleft lip, aggressiveness etc.??? Or is it just a myth? Please let me.know
At the risk of sounding ignorant - I’m curious as to why the strategy wouldn’t be to outcross the Frankie offspring to another already set Bandog line that has the size you want, then breed the offspring of that mating to another Frankie offspring from another line? It seems like that would give you more space between generations, limit COI, inprove hybrid vigor, and solve the size piece? I suppose it does take more time, but that seems to be a benefit not a drawback. Just asking, if I’m missing something I’d love to hear from someone who knows more than me.
That is done also...however, Frankie being as proven to have excellent traits, is worth line breeding on in order to fix those genes into the gene pool, which helps preserve the desired traits he displays into future generations by "setting type" (increasing the allelic frequency of his desired genes that determined those desired traits). The drawback of doing what you suggested is that you are less likely to capture the desired genes as we don't have 100 years with 100 dogs every year.
Just watched your video. Good stuff. Bullets a triple bull. His grandfather was Colby with a actual rescue that carried recessive gene to fawn grandfather was reversed brindle. I took blue fawn from staffy and American pit . Bred with Americans bully bred with game dog from the black Jack line.and bullets the result. Their all really great looking dogs. I wanted basically a well proportioned dog and with thick bones and agility and strong mental health with no allergies or cancer's. So far all my pups are alive and well and all great dog's. If you ever get time I'd like to have a real conversation. I appreciate your channel and I'd like to maybe visit this spring if that's a possibility.
That’s really interesting, are you goin for a performance bully? If so, that would be amazing. It would be awesome to watch a fully functional bully with the stamina and ability for performance/work.
Hang on, wouldn't kamodo also be 3/4 WG?? As L7 and WG essentially have a mirror relationship in the chart. 3/4 + 3/4 = 6/4 = 3/2 =1.5 So komodo is a dog and a half? How is this possible?
What's your thoughts on registered vs non registered pups. I currently own a Boerboel her parents are registered but wasn't able register the pup. Couple weeks I'm going to purchase a Bandogge pup, parents are registered but she want an extra $1,000 just for registration for the pup. I'm looking breed the Bandogge to the Boerboel
@@joshmiranda7493 no reason really just would like to see that creation. obviously someone was curious reason why there's a Bandogge. Boerboel in my opinion is probably the best all around mastiff there is and bandogge has one the best motors. Why not. I'm doing this for anything other than curiosity, no matter what they're our family pets.
Lee are you aware of the breeding of one of you're setinels crosses to a Neo mastiff named BBB done by calicatchers he has a instsgram page. I belive he aquried the bitch from West Coast senitnels? I would he curious about you're thoughts on the breeding
Think you can help? I have a male who is amazing, (not pedigree. None of that) and identical to my old dog that passed away a few years ago. It was very hard to find anither dog just like her (his mother put side by side to my old dog is identical. Legit) I dont ever want to part ways with my dog but know their life span isnt even close to ours. So i want to make a line from him and always have them for my kids, my grand kids..so they all have their own. Im still watching but... I learn abit different My original plan was to breed him to a female, keep one back, breed that one to a unrelated, then breed a female back to my sire. Everyone is calling me out for wanting to line breed and screaming saying you cant breed your sire twice thats incest yada yada.
In 1-2 years, we are looking for drive, confidence, health, and ability...which are components that influence gameness, but obviously are not exactly the same thing as gameness.
If someone wants to back breed create a bloodline do father to daught or grandfather to granddaughter any other way can cause issues. One should never breed mother to son or brother to sister unless you want possible issued. The way it should be done, questions just look at wild animals they show you how to line breed with no issues. The way he builds a line is not the way it should be done.
Nature VS nurture , you can look into the bucking bulls, they have tried cloning the best but they come up short to the original even tho they are the exact same copy
@@chicagowebsiteservice8482 if the defects are from dominant genes (unlikely) you would see them before the breeding. If the defects are recessive (more likely) then some of the offspring will capture them and show them and then you know the parents carry them. Don't breed those parents again. Thankfully, this has never been an issue with our dogs.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Im a beginner breeder and I can say this is good content you went over.
If someone wants to back breed create a bloodline do father to daught or grandfather to granddaughter any other way can cause issues. One should never breed mother to son or brother to sister unless you want possible issued. The way it should be done, questions just look at wild animals they show you how to line breed with no issues. The way he builds a line is not the way it should be done.
Helpful video. Thank you.
Thanks for the information! I’m an x byb thinking of starting a line and this is exactly what I’ve been wondering about. Thank you so much!
Lol exactly.. I hope this is sarcasm
Absolutely amazing content , really explained how to get a pure line with the desired traits of dad
That's very much Sir, you are always very explecit, and you care to c other breeders grow.
Hey man, hope your health is all good and you’ve been in recently for your cough, my uncle thought he just had a regular cough, ended up having lung cancer. Thank you for the video and god bless!
Thanks. That has been gone for a while now. All is well.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Very interesting information 👍
Thanks for the knowledge man
Best video on RUclips by far on line breeding 👌 southern triple j did a good video on breeding pittbulls also the other video on this channel did a while ago is also a very good video
Ran across this video and it helped me out keep making great videos with great knowledge in it
Powerful video
Thank you 🙏🏾
Very Helpful
Thank you ❤ so much! You are the real deal. Thanks for sharing and teaching this. I desire to become a breeder and you are educating me and inspiring me
You are so welcome!
That was good knowledge and good insight appreciate that my brother🫵🏾
Great video ❤
Great video 💪
Thank you, this was an amazing breakdown
Great info will be a long time subscriber
Hello Sir, thank you for the awesome video. Would you share how do we performance test the dogs/puppies?
Real good information
Very good. That technique can be used for the parent female if she has the traits your wanting to keep.
Excellent video 👍
Im trying to start a blood line to thanks man
Very good explanation. This concept is called back-breeding and is what is used to start most breeds. But once a breed is already established, this is no longer necessary.
More typically done is 3-2 or 2-3 (aunt to nephew or uncle to niece). You also see combinations like 2-4, which is the sire of the male is the great grandsire of the female, or combinations like 4-5,5,. The method shown establishes a line and a breed very quickly, but it doubles up not only on the good genes but also on the recessive genes and is a double edge sword. Another method is 3-1 or a grand father back to his own grand-daugther. Again, this is all close, but if done too often can cause loss of hybrid vigor. It creates a concept called "pre-potency" where a dog that is 7/8th of one particular ancestor if bred to a female with an unrelated pedigree would "outpower" that pedigree and pass himself forward in time. Thanks for sharing. Good information.
Hey, do u care to share more knowledge on genetics and breeding?
agree would love to hear more from you. especially does that last part mean you could introduce a 3rd breed that has characteristics you like into the line?
and repeat some of the same process* to add i can not edit as i am in mobile lol
Thanks for the examples, but wouldn't the father back to his own grand-daughter be a 1-3 instead of a 3-1?
Is there any dog breed that is same as Great Pyrenees in term of size, behavior but is suitable for warm/ hot climate?
I need livestock guardian dog, not herding dog, to guard pastured livestock in central Mississippi. Really need the dog to be big size so it can exert dominance and keep bigger livestock in line, but without all the biting, and constant barking like with herding dogs.
If not, then I may need to create a line out of Great Pyrenees. But is it possible without the Great Pyrenees with hot climate tolerance? If so, how? Thanks in advanced.
Thank You Very Much 🙂
When u bred frankie to the 3 dams where those 3 dams related or are they 3 diffrent outcrosses
Two were of similar line. One was unrelated
Thank you!
What is the best way for cane corsos? Great video
Ty
Thank you
Thax..
Excellent work, thank you very much
very informative video. I think if examine the breeding of Horand von Grafrath, the foundation dog of the GSD breed and his brother Luchs and his son Beuowolf, a similar program was used to develop the German Shepherd initially.
🙏 thank you
If you have a game apbt and breed it to a mastiff, would the pups lose all gameness until bred back to the apbt? In other words, could the apbt/mastiff pups produce some game pups with the apbt bring 50%?
Generally, gameness will be lost in a cross, but there are a few occasions it can remain. Game mastiffs are EXTREMELY rare, but there are a few. I would not bet on finding one. In 24 years of working mastiffs, I have only seen one.
Brilliant video
Amazing info as it is sir. thanks 👍
Great video
Very helpful 💯💯💯💯💯
thanks bruh 👍🏾
What is and how long should you performance test?
This question is very in-depth, but the higher the standards the better as long as you pay attention to how the dog is handling it. What is it depends on what you desire from the animal. How often depends on the dog’s recovery time.
@@APBT-Bandog not to over simplify things, I need to create a set of criteria to test/ measure / compare the dogs.
Great video! Very interesting.
If all things being equal, testing and co, It'll take at least how many years to create a line. To call it a LINE.
have you been using performance Dogo argentino or presa canario?
No sir
@@ludikonj8927 Understand, keep up the fantastic work:)
If I have a short dog and tall dog how do I breed to get that mix a short dog?
Very informative sir, thank you so much
Great information sir, greetings from me 🙏🏾 and I have a question for you ... If I have gone through the line breeding process and got the results, then how could I maintain the quality of the offspring from that broodstock (the result of line breeding)? How to keep the same quality for the offspring? Is it permissible for me to breed that offspring likes breeding the siblings?
Love&peace from Bali 😇
Excellent! Thanks!
If you haven’t already could you show how you would line breed off of a female? I know most people do them off of males because it’s easier but I’m curious of the formula to build of a female.
This comment is decades old, but I'm curious too. Everyone's always talking about how game the stud is, the female is just as important.
Good video
What would happen if you took frankie back to the bottom pups the last pup that were will his percentage be 100%?
I think he said he could do that but he would lose too much size as Frankie is already more on the pitbull side. He wants to maintain the bandog size which is bigger for this particular program.
Look up Dr melanie uhde, you and Dr melanie could do hell of a show
Subbed
Is there a way to get up with this guy I’m myself am a breeder n I have few questions about my own program nd I would really love his insights
Hello, i looked up about breeding because i have two german shepherds Male 3yrs old and a female 1.5 years old. They have the same parents, but are 7 generations apart. Ive been good keeping them apart through 3 heats, this is her 4th heat and they mated. Is this ok? They both have good temperament and intelligent.
depends on the quality of the dogs, and if they carry and share common recessive genetic disorders.
Hello Mr Lee, can you still linebreed Frankie whether he’s inbred or not, but just because he has the desired performance traits?Thanks
And the lesson is ,, Papers don’t make the dog ,, very clear explanation sir , thanks for sharing
So wait.. What if I breed a Male dog with his sister from a different litter. Same dad but different mom. Is that bad to do?
As long as the common parent is an exceptional individual, then half-sibling breedings are fine. But, if that common parent has any issues, expect those issues to pop up when you double breed on that individual.
Lee in regards to inbreeding & line breeding…
Say you have pups from litter A - some have defects from recessive genes so they would be culled - would you continue to breed the healthy pup from litter A to Frankie? (I assume you would otherwise how would you improve.. but just making sure)
Also after line breeding for three generations all dogs I assume by the third generation they would be extremely healthy & fit - but say you outcross for the 4th generation and that introduces recessive genes again that you just worked 3 breedings to get rid of, do you just line breed and cull again, restarting the process or move into 3-2, 4-2, 4-5 back massing on the pedigree?
These are questions more related to pure breed dogs (corsos and presas).
Do you linebreed on a male or female and is this only on dogs or all livestock?
gender is irrelevant for the most part. A female does contribute the mitochondrial DNA, but that is about only about 1% of our total DNA...so I would not get hung up on trading 99% for 1%. Instead, just use quality specimens with known history.
How do I create a line from a female dog
What if you are starting with a dog that is not papered
I would not use a dog if I didn’t know at least a generation or two of the pedigree..& if that is all I knew those would have to be some seriously high quality working dogs.
Would it be a catastrophy to breed komodo with a litter mate?
Too tight in my opinion as she is already out of littermates
How inbreeding affect or benefits wild animals?
My guess is when the original male gets to old and his male offspring are to young or maybe to tight for the job a new male takes over. At least that's my not even close to an expert guess.
Hi have you done mother son breedings?curious if they were healthy. Thanks
I have done parent bred to offspring before without any issues. Father x daughter...& Mother x son is basically no different as long as the dogs bred are not carrying any sex linked genetic disorders. Just make sure both dogs are healthy and know the lineage well before proceeding.
@@APBT-Bandog We've done Family breeding for over 30 year's off family bred from long before us, Never an Issue like many say as long as you use Quality Healthy K9s
Dude has shared some Gems for those Who aren't aware
Wishing Em All the Luck
If litter mates are mated together. How much relationship would pups have with the siblings sire? There grandfather? Would it be 75%?
50
@@rorydevlin3617 thanks..I was thinking with both offspring receiving 50% dna from father. If the siblings were to produce pups they'd be 75% as 25% would be carried over from the 50 from brother to sister mating lol
Is it true that when brothers mate , the babies are born with deformities such as cleft lip, aggressiveness etc.??? Or is it just a myth? Please let me.know
I assume you mean brothers x sisters, & if so, only if the line already carries the defect.
@@APBT-Bandog cool thanks
Dear sir, what happens if neice and nephew breed ?
"niece and nephew?"
Do you mean "Uncle x Niece" or "Aunt x Nephew?"
At the risk of sounding ignorant - I’m curious as to why the strategy wouldn’t be to outcross the Frankie offspring to another already set Bandog line that has the size you want, then breed the offspring of that mating to another Frankie offspring from another line? It seems like that would give you more space between generations, limit COI, inprove hybrid vigor, and solve the size piece? I suppose it does take more time, but that seems to be a benefit not a drawback.
Just asking, if I’m missing something I’d love to hear from someone who knows more than me.
That is done also...however, Frankie being as proven to have excellent traits, is worth line breeding on in order to fix those genes into the gene pool, which helps preserve the desired traits he displays into future generations by "setting type" (increasing the allelic frequency of his desired genes that determined those desired traits). The drawback of doing what you suggested is that you are less likely to capture the desired genes as we don't have 100 years with 100 dogs every year.
Pedigree Coefficiency of Relation vs COI Coefinciency of Inbreeding 🧬
Just watched your video. Good stuff. Bullets a triple bull. His grandfather was Colby with a actual rescue that carried recessive gene to fawn grandfather was reversed brindle. I took blue fawn from staffy and American pit . Bred with Americans bully bred with game dog from the black Jack line.and bullets the result. Their all really great looking dogs. I wanted basically a well proportioned dog and with thick bones and agility and strong mental health with no allergies or cancer's. So far all my pups are alive and well and all great dog's. If you ever get time I'd like to have a real conversation. I appreciate your channel and I'd like to maybe visit this spring if that's a possibility.
That’s really interesting, are you goin for a performance bully? If so, that would be amazing. It would be awesome to watch a fully functional bully with the stamina and ability for performance/work.
So ur breeding father back to daughter? How do u choose a sire to breed a pup out of the next generation if u kept one back out of it?
I gotta let it grow up, test it, and see if it proves worthy. Some do, some do not. Same as nature.
@@APBT-Bandog I found ur site on fb and sent u a message about my stud pug. Looking for advice
Hang on, wouldn't kamodo also be 3/4 WG?? As L7 and WG essentially have a mirror relationship in the chart.
3/4 + 3/4 = 6/4 = 3/2 =1.5
So komodo is a dog and a half? How is this possible?
Nevermind I understand now. It helps to picture a Ven Diagram / overlapping circles.
question, why did you pick wonder girl if she has brindle? or are you not worried about your future pups having brindle?
Color is not a priority.
100% , some people just can't get over the color thing
Color never represents or has a relationship with ability or function
I've heard the opposite
What's your thoughts on registered vs non registered pups. I currently own a Boerboel her parents are registered but wasn't able register the pup. Couple weeks I'm going to purchase a Bandogge pup, parents are registered but she want an extra $1,000 just for registration for the pup. I'm looking breed the Bandogge to the Boerboel
Wats the point ?
@@joshmiranda7493?
@@bobbyjordan1983 why are u going to breed a banddogge to a boerboel for ?
@@joshmiranda7493 no reason really just would like to see that creation. obviously someone was curious reason why there's a Bandogge. Boerboel in my opinion is probably the best all around mastiff there is and bandogge has one the best motors. Why not. I'm doing this for anything other than curiosity, no matter what they're our family pets.
@@bobbyjordan1983 ok i was just curious as why to breed boerboel into an already establish banddogge line as opposed to just creating ur own line
Lee are you aware of the breeding of one of you're setinels crosses to a Neo mastiff named BBB done by calicatchers he has a instsgram page. I belive he aquried the bitch from West Coast senitnels? I would he curious about you're thoughts on the breeding
Think you can help? I have a male who is amazing, (not pedigree. None of that) and identical to my old dog that passed away a few years ago.
It was very hard to find anither dog just like her (his mother put side by side to my old dog is identical. Legit)
I dont ever want to part ways with my dog but know their life span isnt even close to ours. So i want to make a line from him and always have them for my kids, my grand kids..so they all have their own.
Im still watching but... I learn abit different
My original plan was to breed him to a female, keep one back, breed that one to a unrelated, then breed a female back to my sire.
Everyone is calling me out for wanting to line breed and screaming saying you cant breed your sire twice thats incest yada yada.
In my experience, you can't really assess a 1-year-old puppy's gameness. They need to be at least 2 or 3 years old.
In 1-2 years, we are looking for drive, confidence, health, and ability...which are components that influence gameness, but obviously are not exactly the same thing as gameness.
If someone wants to back breed create a bloodline do father to daught or grandfather to granddaughter any other way can cause issues. One should never breed mother to son or brother to sister unless you want possible issued. The way it should be done, questions just look at wild animals they show you how to line breed with no issues. The way he builds a line is not the way it should be done.
With advances in technology cloning will give limitless copies
Nature VS nurture , you can look into the bucking bulls, they have tried cloning the best but they come up short to the original even tho they are the exact same copy
Also you can freeze sperm I know somebody who had a puppy born from a dog that died in 1985
Very good information 🙏 would you mind sharing your Instagram to see the results of your program
Thanks for the info. Aren’t you worried about defects with all the inbreeding?
Don't breed dogs that display defects.
@@APBT-Bandog I get that but I thought you were never supposed to inbreed because it may actually cause defects. Forgive my ignorance I’m new at this.
@@chicagowebsiteservice8482 if the defects are from dominant genes (unlikely) you would see them before the breeding. If the defects are recessive (more likely) then some of the offspring will capture them and show them and then you know the parents carry them. Don't breed those parents again. Thankfully, this has never been an issue with our dogs.
@@APBT-Bandog Thanks for clearing that up.