Roman History - Happy Saturnalia
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- The first part of this video is from the podcast series The History Of Rome by Mike Duncan. He currently does The Revolutions podcast. www.revolutions...
The second part is from a History Channel documentary.
I've been listening to all of it up this point at work, and loving every word. I hope you did get your well deserved Podcast award! Still listening and enjoying in 2/1/2022
This podcast is so good to fall asleep with
wow that lady isn't biased at all... cof.
interesting if you ignore the holy roller crap
I’m kind of impressed at how blatant the propaganda is on that second part. Also like I can’t imagine how someone could be so anti-christmas and so eager to paint most holidays as hedonistic, antichristian, pagan celebrations. The podcast episode was good tho.
This was the original war against Christmas that was waged by Evangelical Christians.
From personal experience I can say that those people are wrong. As a small child I grew up believing in Santa Claus and never forgot that Christmas was about Jesus.
For example the Christmas song Little Drummer Boy
Essential listening up to 12:00
Caryl Matrisciana does a good job too, keep watching
To tell this part of the history, was it necessary to use a clip that’s so incredibly preachy and proselytizing at the end?
Another great work Timaeus. At 15:26 Saturn was not only the god of "excess" (or more rightly, plenty) but also time. At 15:36 England was not a Roman province (rather the better word to use was Britain which she mentioned before it, oddly). 29:19 "Turkish Bishop", well Turkey didn't exist in 4th century Asia Minor. Bishop Nicholas was an ethnic Greek and Roman citizen.
:)
I think this is largely semantics. True, 'England' was not the name of the Roman province of Britannia - the word didn't even exist until some centuries later - but the territory encompassed what we now call England and Wales - it never extended to much of Scotland, which is part of what we mean by 'Britain' today. Similarly, 'Turkey' was not the contemporary name for Asia Minor, but it is the word we apply to that territory today. I don't have a problem with using modern words to describe territories that were called by a different name in Roman times, though it may indeed be technically incorrect. I doubt that the builders of Stonehenge called the monument 'Stonehenge', but we don't have a problem with documentaries applying that name to it.
Paul White builders of stone henge as you say,interesting, and just hoo and when do you think twas built,I contend stone henge is not very old at all,hello
Well, most archaeologists agree that construction started around 3000 BC and the monument reached its final form around 2000 BC. Now, if you have evidence that the professional archaeologists aren't aware of, I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear from you.
Paul White ethnically and culturally Asia Minor is totally different from modern Turkey. It's not about semantics, it's about accuracy. Modern Turkey has contributed nothing to the history of the West, including Xmas. Turkey and its existence is all about the Ottomans who after 1000 left very little behind in comparison to Roman and Byzantine history.
Well done.. well spoken. All traditional holidays came from something...
fairly slick, I didn't catch the politico-religious bias til toward the end--interesting info though til then...
yes the conservative Christian spin poisoned the well.
@Sean Moonshine So I can't send you love?
Timaeus what happened to the playlist it was perfect
Calm before the storm
Yahweh doesn't care if Christmas is pagan or not. He was pagan himself until 313 AD.
lol...the narrator is absolutely brimming with disdain and righteous fury that anyone could have celebrated any religious festival other than the no doubt subdued, dreary, puritanical, patriarchal, and no doubt self aggrandizing religious observances she was either brought up with or was converted to. Mike Duncan's podcast is a well balanced presentation of Roman history, culture, and custom. THIS is nothing but a self righteous Christian propoganda piece far better suited to a congregation already practicing it, giving them something to tut tut at whilst feeling wonderfully civilized. Why it was inserted into the flow of the podcast escapes me.
Thanks for uploading the podcast, but I'd really have preferred the propaganda not to be stitched onto Mike Duncan's history lesson. Now I have to transfer the audio file to a computer and chop off the illegitimate part.
That 'History' channel production is about as accurate as a home video (and who are the oddly leisurely looking 'experts' (the 'Colonel'? and a timber shivering seaman (fishsticks producer?)) 😂
3:30
The sky: the original cell phone.
Im a realist, I don't care if they burn logs but i can see how burning people could lead to problems.
Some Guy unless paedophiles are the ones getting burning.
@@TempleofBrendaSong I see what you did there. Taking it to the extreme edge case to put me on my heel. 'Touche'
@@SomeGuy-nr9id go and drink and be merry and FEAST this Saturnalia
@@TempleofBrendaSong Not big on holidays to be honest. Edit ... Oh this is so old you probably already saw the whole rome series. Salute.
This is some crazy shit.
Thank you so much💪💪💪
Sarurn was the god of abundance, but I can't find anything about him being the god of "excess." Nice word choice.
"During his reign, George I, himself of German extraction, brought the custom to Victorian England."
*WHAT?!*
Okay, first of all....
I mean wasn't he?
@@dramlamb5196 george I reigned in the 18th century, victorian era is in the 19th
How could King George the First bring anything to Victorian England? King George, whether The First, Second, Third or Fourth, never lived in Victorian England! Victorian England is England during the reign of Victoria, who reigned after all of those Georges had died. King George V was far from being King but alive in Victorian England, but Albert and Victoria had already popularized Christmas Trees.
Religion for breakfast needs to take a look at this video lol. Ive heard him debunk a few of these claims in the past.
Saturn ! Black robes, mortarboard, Judges courts, collage graduates,ect !!
It's unfortunate that my Mike Duncun podcast experience is interrupted by the annoying documentary
You can always skip the Christmas episode of his podcast and go on to the next one. I omitted from his timeline since it wasn't Christmas when I uploaded them, then I uploaded it separately when it was Christmas and I needed something to fill in the space after his 20 minute episode.
Well done
Being aware of historical change and contexts is exactly why I do not believe in any godheads. Real believers, like I used to be, scare the shjt out of me.
LOL Still one of my favourite attempts to explain away the Christian connections to other festivals. Christmas, held on 25th Dec was established - if not universally honoured - as the birthday of Jesus .. because of the Jewish calendar not the Roman e.g. to fit in with the conception of his cousin John, known as the Baptist. That is, it ties in with the timescale of the annual Pasch (Passover) sacrifice (now usually called Eastertime in the Germanic fashion across the Anglo-Saxon world); and this was worked out long - long, long - before Sol Invictus was accepted at Rome as a conquering god, possibly associated with Apollo, Sol Indiges - the undefiled Sun, recalled on December 11th, within Saturnalia, and receiving sacrifices along with Luna in August, the harvest festival. The Unconquered Sun was an imperial festival, not an ancient custom, having an imperially funded priesthood (of the civic rather than theological kind), and linked to the genius of the Emperor, not a seasonal deity at all, Syria like Britannia having slightly different perspectives on the Roman experience of the Northern Hemisphere's rolling year.
The radiate crown was a sign of power, authority, and majesty, both human and divine, to the wider Roman mindset. Thus it was a symbol suited to convey what Christians understood of Jesus to others less committed to or concerned with Church life and personal sanctity ..
This, it seems, still causes a high degree of anxiety among Bible-Only Protestants or puzzlement in non-Catholics influenced by Bible-Only ideas; the Church is not a people of The Book, the books are a Book in, of, for, and to the Church.
;o)
Oh how I dislike historians/history buffs referring to the bible as if it were a historic source. Happens more than occasionally when reading about classical history :-(
I know I can't stand this brainwashing towards the end.. there aren't facts in religion, just myth.
I'm not going to watch the perspective of anyone besides Duncan and his input I disagree with. There really isn't a definitive reason of canon besides traditional calender reflection of the crucifixion to the date of Jesus's birth. The idea of sangunalia being replaced by Christmas is ultimately unfounded and culturally Rome being too hetroegeneous of winter celebrations to take earnestly. As far as anthropology is concerned from the story it may very well have been winter in the Palestinian hill village of Bethlehem. Though to construct a story for the season is an absurdity when until recently and more importantly celebrated with more focus by Northern Christians the holiday of Easter was more important for the first dispersed Christians as a homogeneous bloc.
This comment section is painful to read. Hopefully I can get the podcast proper soon and stop giving you views.
I'd rather you stop giving me your asinine comments. The link to his podcast is in the description of each vid. Go watch it there if you don't want to watch it here.
@@-timaeus-9781 That's exactly how you handle a bitter disgruntled jaded viewer
Last half = Christian propaganda
the myth of Santa Claus vs the myth of Jesus. Really just a pickem!
Jesus was Jewish
@@davidbryden7904 point?
@@marissaclaudio6318 just a simple statement; nothing more. I don't really root for any particular "team".✌️🌏☮️
@@royroberts5925 Emperor Constantine watching St Nicholas (aka Santa Claus) punching Arius at the Council of Nicea: ruclips.net/user/shortslzBzAl8a9vc?si=dH6e47N0kP2hOFx_
Growing up, it was mostly Christian people getting offended by provocative people like Carlin and Stern, now days, it's people getting offended by talking of Christianity lol people are so FN soft
it's almost like there's a genetic trait which leads to a subsect of people who latch on to any cause and attempt to drag the rest of the world along with them regardless of what it may be.
I miss the true gods instead of the jew god
the "true" gods are the "jew" god; zeus is azazel which is saturn
The fallen angels (which are creations of God) are behind the gods and goddesses. However, even the fallen angels are upheld and sustained by the God of Israel. They will not always be the rulers of this world.
lies!!! The bible god is pure evil.
Jord Flor lol Christians calling someone an idiot oh the irony!
Jord Flor lol being called an idiot by something spewing christian nonsense is reassuring.
June August was The birth Of yesuah Hamachiach Jesus Christ
Your ridiculous superstion is the real superstition I guess is your point. Well done though.
Haha! Really! Pagans taking over Christmas? Actually, it was the other way around!
I love the status reversal of Saturnalia. Christians may sing that all men are one but Christian class distinctions and racism were so much more rigid for the next 1800 years. If Romans didn't really mean it neither did the Christians.
lol silly take
Yes because slavery was an institution fundamental to all Christian societies. Whilst Romans banned it first domestically and then ultimately globally..
Oh wait.. stupid take, Paul
@@gregtaylor9806 When did the Roman's ever ban slavery globally?
I must have been in a cynical mood when i wrote that comment. It depends on how you define slavery. The Romans seem to have been more tolerant of low class backgrounds even for upper class people. I like that about them. The Bible - old testament anyway - doesn't seem to see slaves very well. The Bible tended to believe in caste.
I'm not sure what to call those who survived into the dark ages>? Slaves? Free? Not the political definition but the quality of their lives over all.
I think gregtaylor9806 was being sarcastic. Slavery was the state of affairs in there time when the average GDP per capita was lower than the subsistence level (tribes back then could either keep slaves or starve in an egalitarian society). When during the Renaissance philosophers came up with the idea that slavery is evil (yes, that idea had to be invented!), the first step was to outlaw enslaving christians (that's why Columbus opposed converting native Americans). This didn't work, so the concept of races (which don't exist) was invented and used to justify slavery.
And it started on December 17 which is Pope Francis birthday.
There are no balls in space. Humanity's knowledge actually has regressed in this regard.
LMAO - Santa is a myth, but Jesus is real. There never was a census by Augustus, this was created so that the prophesy about the birth place could be met. If there had been such a census there would be records of it somewhere as there are for many other events. There was a census in Judea, but that occured after the time of Herod, who was the King of Judea when Jesus is said to have been born.
You seem to forget that rome burned multiple times after augustus' alleged census. Not saying it definitely happened but ancient papyrus is surprisingly flammable m8.
The prophecy didn't exist either, it was a mistranslation in the (then mostly used) septuagint version of Isaiah 7:14.
History and Facts?
Uh Oh! Here come the religious keyboard warriors.
Take cover!
They gonna go medieval on our a**!
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus
hey guess what...and Jesus takes the place of God....you all just can't put it all 2gether...NO OTHER GODS., 1st commandment
Jesus IS Yahweh. They are the same and there is no difference. The trinity is a myth friend.
yeah, I get that...neither is the father...the trinity is the triun forms of Baal...so are saying you worship the son? or the father?
Ronald Johnson but Jesus didn’t really exist?
@@-timaeus-9781hmmmm... Yahweh was (is?) the deity believed in (aka El) by the Israelites in the Jewish scriptures ('old testament'); Jesus seems to have been an historic human male born around 4 BC and got himself executed for challenging Roman rule
35:55 Jesus is replaced by Santa Calus in heart and minds of children because Jesus is not real. Santa is ^-^.Santa brings candy, Jesus don't.
The gifts are from Jesus.
Santa is just the delivery guy.
your own little party line pc narrative, how boring and trite, but you don't think so , do you, you think you understand something, you don't , you described a movie, that's all.
And you think you sound more intelligent by acting like everyone should already know what you do. I'm not here to stroke my ego dude, or yours. I am simply presenting information to whom it may concern. And btw, I hate the PC narrative, since I am a Calvinist Christian. But since you think you already know everything, I guess that doesn't concern you either.
Celebrating Jesus' birth is in itself a dubious practice. Ever wondered why Jesus birth date is never mentioned in the Bible? Jesus' birth evidently is not important. His birth was just a means for him to get here. His example and his death is what we must focus on.
The only birthdays that are mentioned in the Bible are that of Herodus and Pharao, both enemies of God. If God thinks that birthdays are so important, then why would he only mention those of his enemies and not those of his own son?
The reason why the 25th is celebrated was merely a observance of conception reflecting crucifixion. In the early Christian writings this is all we get from the church fathers and has organically celebrated in the east for the justifaction stated. As far as the matter is dug into this is the most we get from the sparse period.