I started angling my brake hoods in a few years ago just to help my wrists as I think it's more comfortable than straight forward hoods. If there's an aero benefit too, then bonus!
As a smaller rider, the biggest difference was swapping out the stock 42cm O-to-O to a Deda RHM 38cm O-to-O bar. I gained comfort and a little extra reach. I've since angled the hoods in a little too, and my hands fell so much better on the hoods as you get a much more neutral wrist/forearm angle, as well as placing your forearms on the tops if you want to get in an aero position on the hoods. Win, win!
If you don't want to fork over for the fancy Enve bar right away just to try out a narrow flared bar, Rose makes an inexpensive alloy narrow flared bar, the Attack GF Aero, which can be found for about 20 euros.
I use those SES Aero bars in that size - 37 hoods 42 drops. They are my favorite bars ever. 37cm in the hoods are very comfortable and the flare with the wider drops gives a great position for sprinting. It's the best bar out there.
After my bike fit, I’m now using 380mm Roval Rapide bars. Replacing the 400mm that came with my bike. Initial thoughts are improved position and comfort. And at my age, I’ll gladly take any free watts 😉
When I started racing as a junior in 1987, my coach told us to get the widest handlebar we could ride. The theory was it would open up our chest, improving oxygen intake to our lungs.
From that point of view, the best riding position is by far on a dutch bike, and the worse on a TT bike. As for handlebar width, I agree narrower than the shouders probably 'closes' the chest too much, however, riding them much wider than the shoulders can cause all sorts of neck/shoulder issues too, as you can gauge from the comments below. I run Deda 36cm (measured from outside edge to outside edge) and they are still slightly wider than my shoulders (I have a very small build). I would not have the bars any wider and I feel no difference whatsoever in breathing when I am on my flat bar hybrid. In fact, I ended up chopping those bars too as I was having wrist problems.
This is a really great video. I love the analysis and I have always wondered about narrow vs wider handle bars. I guess I'm a real 'wind catcher' with my 46cm ENVE (round) handlebars on my carbon Synapse, hehehehe!! But I fancy myself a climber, and as such; I like a wider bar for comfort and leverage in the high mountains. But as I often say; I'm in no danger of receiving an UCI world tour contract 🙂
Interesting that your follow-up video is going to cover comfort. Being 6' 4" tall, every bike I have ever bought over the years has come with 42cm or even 44cm bars. I had a bike fit last year and was recommended to switch to 40cm bars based on my shoulder width. I don't know if it has saved many watts but it has definitely made longer rides more comfortable now and wrist pain is virtually a thing of the past. Just another instance in my book where bike manufacturers get bike specs totally wrong.
First time my bike fitter changed on my bike was to switch to a less wide handlebar to fit my shoulder width. Made a substantive difference to comfort on the bike.
Rob Arnold from Ridemedia said in a video, that Shimanos intention is that the flat part of the hoods should be parallel to the ground. And i am happy with this set up on my bike.
Would be really interesting to try the same type of handlebar tested in the wind tunnel at different widths to see how much narrower handlebars make. Difficult to know in this test was it aerodynamic nature of the narrower handlebar or just the fact they were narrower that was saving watts. Thanks. Great video.
If you do test narrow bars on the road I would probably adjust the stem length. As going narrower in the handlebar shortens your reach. So the handling issues that people say happens should balance out with the correct stem length. So + 5mm in stem length for every 2cm narrow and the opposite for going wider. Bear in mind the handlebar reach is the same. It's like changing crank length without adjust saddle height or changing tire width and keeping the same pressures.
A 2 cm width change only changes the reach 3mm.Most stems are sold in 10mm increments so it's not going to be enough of a difference to need a new stem. The handling issues are because your hands are closer together. No different than riding in a time trial position.
@@CamsJungleAquaria from what I measured and from what I changed its 5mm. So if you change your width by 2cm it probably won't do much in terms or handling.Bu if you are gonna change it you probably want to go down as narrow as possible like changing cranks.Hence why you would need a longer stem for a narrower pair.
Difficulty with anything like this is that one change impacts a number of different areas. Just switching the width isn’t a like for like change in terms of body position. If you switch to a narrower bar, this actually shortens the reach a tiny bit, so you end up narrower but taller. To compensate you might have to go to a slightly longer stem, or a slightly greater downward angle on the stem.
Great content!! Thank you! I´m on a Metron 5D with 38cm and I´ll never going back to 42 or even 40. Will you do a version for aero road helmets? Many thanks again!!
@@davidarthur I gather the top aero helmets from the main brands I´m looking to get soon(ranked by looks and weight too...): 1. MET Manta Mips 2. Giro Eclipse Spherical 3. ABUS GameChanger 4. Lazer Vento KinetiCore 5. KASK Utopia Y 6. HJC FURION 2.0 And a wild card if possible that I would buy if performance is REALLY noticeable. Trek Ballista.
I was using quite narrow bars about 15 years ago. One of the big reasons I also liked them was because in Crit racing, I felt that narrower bars were less likely to get bumped by other racers I thought they were probsbly more aero, but I didn't know they were reducing my drag by such a huge amount.
You make really good videos David . I noticed you showed but didn’t mention the Enve SES AR handlebar. It is one I have been looking at. Did you find the extra flare too much for road riding. Did it seem to absorb more vibrations than an aluminum bar ? Thanks, Dave
Had good success in gravel races with a 38 cm bar (coming from 42 cm) but cornering could get a bit sketchy. Rode them once in a cx race and was all over the place. Now going for 38s with 42-44 flare in the drops for road and gravel and 42 for cx with 46 in drops.
I have 40cm bars on both my bikes but I find that my hands turn outward to hold the hoods. I’ve been debating between getting a 38cm bar vs just angling the hoods inward. But I also want aero bars so may just go more narrow with the change.
Review the folding aero bars please. It goes from MTB bars to aero bars with a lever. They also have a version where you can brake while hold the aero bar tt style
A fair comparison would be two aero bars, one narrow on top and one not. We cannot know now if it was the aero vs round or the width. I have the exact same aero bars on my new SuperSix EVO, and I don’t like the lack of leverage I have when on the hoods.
I will say that I have those same ENVE aero bars and while they felt too narrow for my first few rides, up to the first month, I'm quite used to them and run them on my endurance bike too. I'd run them in gravel too, but I would prefer a wider bar for the chunky stuff and I don't run aero bars on my Lauf Seigla, which is my gravel bike for the chunky stuff.
Seems exactly how I have my regular training bike set up. It's a first gen Gary Fisher 29"er, 2.35" slicks, inverted Cube trekking bar with ~35-40º sweep. I put bar tape all over it , most of the time I can hold the central part even over some bumps. According to Strava I'm not as fast as the hip road bike boys yet, but I've never put such averages 20 years ago when I was racing.
I’ve been riding the same handlebar for 6 years and thought it was wide. Just found out it’s narrower than what the pros use😅 it’s an fsa 380mm top and 400mm drops
It would have been interesting to see the rider riding in the hoods with horizontal forearms. It's considered to be the fastest position on a road bike, so actually seeing the watt saving would have been useful.
So switching from a standard round bar to a narrow aero handlebar with angled hoods can save you 10-20 watts depending on speed and wind direction. That’s massive
@@einundsiebenziger5488 I ride Grand fondos and chase Strava segments. Plus I just like the feeling of going fast-plain and simple. I ended up buying 37cm aero carbon bars from AliExpress for $50. They are 20 watts faster at 30kph than my 40mm round bars (I tested it on a velodrome), and the handlebar width is more comfortable for my shoulder width. To me, it’s a no brainer upgrade: cheap, fast, and comfortable
the problem with this is it's classic lab vs field and to make a direct comparison you have to have a control group and measure for all the variables so all this test tells you is what is happened in the lab.
Interesting video, but it would have been more informative to compare traditional round handlebars of different widths instead of using a combination of narrower aero-shaped handlebars and wider traditional round handlebars. The inclusion of aero-shaped handlebars introduces another variable that makes it difficult to isolate the impact of handlebar width on aerodynamics. A more controlled experiment using solely different widths of traditional round handlebars would provide clearer insights into the specific effect of bar width on wattage savings. Nonetheless, an engaging topic worth exploring further!
I'm not ready for a road bike, but the 44cm bars on my Checkpoint ALR are starting to be an issue. Just did my first one hour criterium practice at 37KPH (solo) and I think I need to start taking aero seriously.
I was using 44cm bars back in the days. Years later I swapped them for 42cm bars on my climbing bike.. But now I believe I would go even narrower . I believe I'll go for a 40cm top and 42 drops. Because I'm moving to Aero world. lol 🤣
I felt the difference between my stock round drop bar to the cheap Aero carbon fiber handlebar from Kovcelo, I felt like I am more faster now on my gravel bike
David, mate!? You are comparing two different bar designs (round v. Aero), but framing this as a test of bar width. The two variables are conflated in your test. I think you are smarter than this.
through my decades decades in the sport, my studies of myself i had figured 42 to 44 was best for my elite speeds and strengths, im not massive gorilla nor a little frail circus chimp, my organism had better comfort and speeds strengths with the 42 44 widths, kind of along alexs post below, might be a bit more than theoretical
How about a narrow round bar vs the wider bar. Is the difference in width only? This is the frustrating thing with non-tech peopke doing stuff like this.
But what about 37cm non-aero to remove the aero bar variable from the comparison? (Doesn't matter how much you do, it's never enough for these people!)
I’d never buy a stock build because the bars are always too wide. Now we’re going the other way which also isn’t good. Measure between your shoulder bones and choose the right handlebar specific for you. Don’t choose it because you might save 5 watts at 40km. Never copy the pros - you just end up poor and uncomfortable on the wrong bike.
I thought angling in hoods is more about hand position and when you're sitting with forearms level - helps keep elbows/arms narrower but keeping wrists comfortable. not clear how much the benefit you show is due to aero bars, not width alone.
Actually yes narrower handlebar provides better aerodynamic effects and it saves you a lot of watts, there are certain handlebar lengths and it should line up with your shoulders, the arms reach shouldnt be straight but be a bit bent, and bent hoods provide more comfortable grip but at a risk of risking damaging your handlebar or the clamps especially with weak carbon handlebars this is a major issue for some
So how to read final test results on normal vs angled hoods? Like so: you take into consideration the resolution of the wind tunnel and the repeatability of the rider position. You do this by enough repetitions and will probably find a value spread bigger than the differences of the final results you showed on screen. But even if these are a averaged result of a sufficient number of test repetitions I'd wager the difference is still smaller than the confidence region or error margin. Put more simply and evident even for the layperson: the small and divergent differences between yaw settings and speed of normal vs angled hoods are in a way that the conclusion should have been: "Well, quantitatively we can't say anything for this test rider. It can be of benefit for you, it could be a detriment for you or it totally could be that it doesn't matter at all. Angle the hoods like you feel you can hold a proven aero position (in lieu of angled vs normal) for longer and for more secure riding." At least that's what I would say after these results. :)
Conventional wide bars compared with aero narrow bars confounds the effect of aero vs conventional and narrow vs wide. In other words, the wattage gains cannot be clearly attributed to either the aero bars or their narrowness. This testing should have compared wide aero with narrow aero to see what the aero bar effect is. Same for the conventional bars: wide vs narrow. Maybe you'd find that narrow vs wide is the main reason for the decreased watts. Just sayin'...
I was hoping same bike no rider different bars from 44 that that bike would be sold with down to 38. With levers because it’s about the bars not lever set up.
If I angle my hoods in, my elbows tend to stick out. I can fight it, but they will go back out when I stop thinking about it. I'm sure that doesn't help being more aero! Anyone else?
NYC guy here..... this would not work for us "urban riders" needing lots of agility, the constant weave of other foot/bike/car traffic, squeezes, potholes, constant jumping in and out of the saddle (all similar to technical crits). BUT, understandable for the open road I suppose
I ride a fast ebike Specialized Creo near 28 mph and noticed a big difference when I changed to 38cm Roval Rapide aero bars. I use less battery or go faster.
Good one! 😂 I really like my aero handle bars because it gives my hands more surface to rest on, thus less pressure on the hands than on the round ones.
yeh i even recall i desired to touch on some pointers on brake lever positions on mindy the monkeys cycling then the little monkey got my ass out (fucking lol snare grimace) such as in the monkeyanse
Your conclusions don't match up with your data. The data says that in the hoods a narrow AND aero bar are significantly faster even at 30 kph over a wider non-aero bar. The drops were about the same. For the angled, there is barely any difference going straight (perhaps in the noise band of your ability to collect data). There is a slight benefit in crosswinds.
Often I am thinking this: Who did more sport or performance? The rider on a Brompton folding bike or the rider on a high end super light 20.000 bucks road bike. So for what we are doing all these afford to reduce weight, drag? Mostly we are not in a competition. The only thing what I would let matters, is the fun on technics, reduce drag and weight as a technical discipline.
Can you make your content inclusive by formatting the auto captioning into closed captioning please? it is extremely hard to watch it relying only on the auto captioning sadly (I'm Profoundly Deaf)
@@jonathanzappala Interesting, as my BE(Aerospace) & Masters in Science, plus 25 years in the aviation industry makes means I'm not using "eyeball aerodynamics." 🤷♂️ Trust me, putting 2 poles (arms) closer together increases drag by causing them to interact. The theory is the same, with slightly different variables. But yeah, lol, I'll take pseudo-scienfltific "research" down by a RUclipsr & backed up by a random commenter as my "research." 🤦♂️ As much as I love Dave's channel & work, there is so much wrong with this study that it doesn't actually tell us anything. (Starting with using different profile bars when the width is changed.)
Every race I see, the pros riding the super narrow bars/position are chicken winging. Is that really faster? Narrow to a point, but no narrower is where we're likely to end up. That will probably means 38-40 for most people is fastest in the real world
no wonder the difference with angled was so small - he did nothing to utilise the angled hoods properly! cmon! It is the angle AND the way you apply your hands and body to the front...
I started angling my brake hoods in a few years ago just to help my wrists as I think it's more comfortable than straight forward hoods. If there's an aero benefit too, then bonus!
As a smaller rider, the biggest difference was swapping out the stock 42cm O-to-O to a Deda RHM 38cm O-to-O bar. I gained comfort and a little extra reach.
I've since angled the hoods in a little too, and my hands fell so much better on the hoods as you get a much more neutral wrist/forearm angle, as well as placing your forearms on the tops if you want to get in an aero position on the hoods.
Win, win!
Narrower bars actually slightly reduce your reach about 3mm per 2cm width change.
If you don't want to fork over for the fancy Enve bar right away just to try out a narrow flared bar, Rose makes an inexpensive alloy narrow flared bar, the Attack GF Aero, which can be found for about 20 euros.
another alternative where price dependent on which site, FSA omega alu.
different reach n drop vs Rose
Cough, AliExpress, Cough.
I use those SES Aero bars in that size - 37 hoods 42 drops. They are my favorite bars ever. 37cm in the hoods are very comfortable and the flare with the wider drops gives a great position for sprinting. It's the best bar out there.
Thanks
Welcome
I love my gravel handlebar that I installed on my roadbike.
Flared bars, 40 cm in the hoods, a couple of centimeters wider in the drops.
Perfect.
Interesting information,looking forward to the next test video.
After my bike fit, I’m now using 380mm Roval Rapide bars. Replacing the 400mm that came with my bike. Initial thoughts are improved position and comfort. And at my age, I’ll gladly take any free watts 😉
Same here. According to my bikefit, I should actually be on a 37cm hoods but the angled ones from 38cm bar ends up being 37cm.
Best bar for you. Rather ridiculous to say it's best for everyone.
Shouldn't you have used the same type of bars. How much of the drag reduction is due to the width or to the aero bar?
all 3 types would be even better...
They didn't pass year 7 science.
Change 1 variable! Why have the two different handlebar types..
Disappointed that he did not do this.
@@chrisallen2519 😁😁😁
When I started racing as a junior in 1987, my coach told us to get the widest handlebar we could ride. The theory was it would open up our chest, improving oxygen intake to our lungs.
And boy was he right! That narrow trend is a gimmick..
@@racittaj Lol ok buddy. You deny all the evidence 😂
From that point of view, the best riding position is by far on a dutch bike, and the worse on a TT bike.
As for handlebar width, I agree narrower than the shouders probably 'closes' the chest too much, however, riding them much wider than the shoulders can cause all sorts of neck/shoulder issues too, as you can gauge from the comments below.
I run Deda 36cm (measured from outside edge to outside edge) and they are still slightly wider than my shoulders (I have a very small build). I would not have the bars any wider and I feel no difference whatsoever in breathing when I am on my flat bar hybrid. In fact, I ended up chopping those bars too as I was having wrist problems.
It’s all about striking a compromise; not too small that you end up constricting your breathing, or too wide that you become a windsail.
Thanks for this interesting info.
Good stuff David! 😎🙌🏽
Appreciate it!
This is a really great video. I love the analysis and I have always wondered about narrow vs wider handle bars. I guess I'm a real 'wind catcher' with my 46cm ENVE (round) handlebars on my carbon Synapse, hehehehe!! But I fancy myself a climber, and as such; I like a wider bar for comfort and leverage in the high mountains. But as I often say; I'm in no danger of receiving an UCI world tour contract 🙂
Interesting that your follow-up video is going to cover comfort. Being 6' 4" tall, every bike I have ever bought over the years has come with 42cm or even 44cm bars. I had a bike fit last year and was recommended to switch to 40cm bars based on my shoulder width. I don't know if it has saved many watts but it has definitely made longer rides more comfortable now and wrist pain is virtually a thing of the past. Just another instance in my book where bike manufacturers get bike specs totally wrong.
Totally agree, my road bike came with 46cm bars wich made it feel like it wouldn't turn at all
First time my bike fitter changed on my bike was to switch to a less wide handlebar to fit my shoulder width. Made a substantive difference to comfort on the bike.
Yes some wind tunnel aero goodness! Thk u
Love to see episodes with the wind tunnel…well done!
Great work mate,again.
Angling your hoods in is more comfortable, and it's easier to get low, too. I was surprised how much I liked it.
Rob Arnold from Ridemedia said in a video, that Shimanos intention is that the flat part of the hoods should be parallel to the ground. And i am happy with this set up on my bike.
Would be really interesting to try the same type of handlebar tested in the wind tunnel at different widths to see how much narrower handlebars make. Difficult to know in this test was it aerodynamic nature of the narrower handlebar or just the fact they were narrower that was saving watts. Thanks. Great video.
When do you plan to do the follow up video of real world comfort and control of narrow bars? Looking forward to it.
If you do test narrow bars on the road I would probably adjust the stem length. As going narrower in the handlebar shortens your reach. So the handling issues that people say happens should balance out with the correct stem length. So + 5mm in stem length for every 2cm narrow and the opposite for going wider. Bear in mind the handlebar reach is the same. It's like changing crank length without adjust saddle height or changing tire width and keeping the same pressures.
A 2 cm width change only changes the reach 3mm.Most stems are sold in 10mm increments so it's not going to be enough of a difference to need a new stem. The handling issues are because your hands are closer together. No different than riding in a time trial position.
@@CamsJungleAquaria from what I measured and from what I changed its 5mm. So if you change your width by 2cm it probably won't do much in terms or handling.Bu if you are gonna change it you probably want to go down as narrow as possible like changing cranks.Hence why you would need a longer stem for a narrower pair.
great content. looking forward to the handing&confort test
Difficulty with anything like this is that one change impacts a number of different areas. Just switching the width isn’t a like for like change in terms of body position. If you switch to a narrower bar, this actually shortens the reach a tiny bit, so you end up narrower but taller. To compensate you might have to go to a slightly longer stem, or a slightly greater downward angle on the stem.
Great content!! Thank you! I´m on a Metron 5D with 38cm and I´ll never going back to 42 or even 40.
Will you do a version for aero road helmets? Many thanks again!!
Aero helmets is another idea on the list for sure - I might take a bunch of different products into the wind tunnel next. Any suggestions?
@@davidarthur
I gather the top aero helmets from the main brands I´m looking to get soon(ranked by looks and weight too...):
1. MET Manta Mips
2. Giro Eclipse Spherical
3. ABUS GameChanger
4. Lazer Vento KinetiCore
5. KASK Utopia Y
6. HJC FURION 2.0
And a wild card if possible that I would buy if performance is REALLY noticeable. Trek Ballista.
@@davidarthur Again thank you so much for the serious content with tests in our(serious cyclists) benefit.
@@SamuelBlackMetalRider Limar Air Speed looks good too from the stats around the web!
I was using quite narrow bars about 15 years ago. One of the big reasons I also liked them was because in Crit racing, I felt that narrower bars were less likely to get bumped by other racers
I thought they were probsbly more aero, but I didn't know they were reducing my drag by such a huge amount.
You make really good videos David .
I noticed you showed but didn’t mention the Enve SES AR handlebar.
It is one I have been looking at. Did you find the extra flare too much for road riding.
Did it seem to absorb more vibrations than an aluminum bar ?
Thanks, Dave
I have external cables, so have to wrap the bars all the way for the cables. Does this negate some of the aero benefits of the aero bars?
Had good success in gravel races with a 38 cm bar (coming from 42 cm) but cornering could get a bit sketchy. Rode them once in a cx race and was all over the place. Now going for 38s with 42-44 flare in the drops for road and gravel and 42 for cx with 46 in drops.
Great video! Tx
Awesome video David. My handle bars April 20th wide aka 4/20 dude, LOL.
Which bike? It’s really nice. Simple and classy looking I love it
I have 40cm bars on both my bikes but I find that my hands turn outward to hold the hoods. I’ve been debating between getting a 38cm bar vs just angling the hoods inward. But I also want aero bars so may just go more narrow with the change.
Review the folding aero bars please. It goes from MTB bars to aero bars with a lever. They also have a version where you can brake while hold the aero bar tt style
A fair comparison would be two aero bars, one narrow on top and one not. We cannot know now if it was the aero vs round or the width. I have the exact same aero bars on my new SuperSix EVO, and I don’t like the lack of leverage I have when on the hoods.
How much did the exposed bar end plugs effect the final numbers?
I will say that I have those same ENVE aero bars and while they felt too narrow for my first few rides, up to the first month, I'm quite used to them and run them on my endurance bike too. I'd run them in gravel too, but I would prefer a wider bar for the chunky stuff and I don't run aero bars on my Lauf Seigla, which is my gravel bike for the chunky stuff.
Great video. Very informative thanks
Seems exactly how I have my regular training bike set up. It's a first gen Gary Fisher 29"er, 2.35" slicks, inverted Cube trekking bar with ~35-40º sweep. I put bar tape all over it , most of the time I can hold the central part even over some bumps. According to Strava I'm not as fast as the hip road bike boys yet, but I've never put such averages 20 years ago when I was racing.
Cool, now we need a comparison video between different depths of aero bars...
I have noticed a big difference swapping out a 44 cm alloy handlebar for a 42 cm carbon one on my Domane.
I’ve been riding the same handlebar for 6 years and thought it was wide. Just found out it’s narrower than what the pros use😅 it’s an fsa 380mm top and 400mm drops
Excelente video
I had 37cm bars and never felt like I could climb very well with them. I much prefer my 39s for climbing and sprinting.
It would have been interesting to see the rider riding in the hoods with horizontal forearms. It's considered to be the fastest position on a road bike, so actually seeing the watt saving would have been useful.
I am a big size rider.. flat & wider handlebar give me more comfort. Guess if workd different for smaller fram rider. 😊
So switching from a standard round bar to a narrow aero handlebar with angled hoods can save you 10-20 watts depending on speed and wind direction. That’s massive
@@einundsiebenziger5488 I ride Grand fondos and chase Strava segments. Plus I just like the feeling of going fast-plain and simple. I ended up buying 37cm aero carbon bars from AliExpress for $50. They are 20 watts faster at 30kph than my 40mm round bars (I tested it on a velodrome), and the handlebar width is more comfortable for my shoulder width. To me, it’s a no brainer upgrade: cheap, fast, and comfortable
One of my life bucket list items is to ride at least 25 miles on a beautiful ride with David himself 🎉
American here. Are inches commonly found on tape measures in the UK?
Imperial measurement is still used in England
The only thing narrow is your wallet after spending $10,000 on a bike with a narrow handlebar
For a headwind test, 30 kph would end up 50-60 km/h air speed, right?
the problem with this is it's classic lab vs field and to make a direct comparison you have to have a control group and measure for all the variables so all this test tells you is what is happened in the lab.
Interesting video, but it would have been more informative to compare traditional round handlebars of different widths instead of using a combination of narrower aero-shaped handlebars and wider traditional round handlebars. The inclusion of aero-shaped handlebars introduces another variable that makes it difficult to isolate the impact of handlebar width on aerodynamics. A more controlled experiment using solely different widths of traditional round handlebars would provide clearer insights into the specific effect of bar width on wattage savings. Nonetheless, an engaging topic worth exploring further!
I have a Worx 33cm bar at the drops on my road bike and a 33cm Velobike bar on my track bike.
they should do tests in aero hoods position too
I'm not ready for a road bike, but the 44cm bars on my Checkpoint ALR are starting to be an issue. Just did my first one hour criterium practice at 37KPH (solo) and I think I need to start taking aero seriously.
I was using 44cm bars back in the days. Years later I swapped them for 42cm bars on my climbing bike.. But now I believe I would go even narrower . I believe I'll go for a 40cm top and 42 drops. Because I'm moving to Aero world. lol 🤣
I felt the difference between my stock round drop bar to the cheap Aero carbon fiber handlebar from Kovcelo, I felt like I am more faster now on my gravel bike
David, mate!? You are comparing two different bar designs (round v. Aero), but framing this as a test of bar width. The two variables are conflated in your test. I think you are smarter than this.
through my decades decades in the sport, my studies of myself i had figured 42 to 44 was best for my elite speeds and strengths, im not massive gorilla nor a little frail circus chimp, my organism had better comfort and speeds strengths with the 42 44 widths, kind of along alexs post below, might be a bit more than theoretical
But this doesn't compare like with like so it's impossible to know how much is due to aero bars and how much is to do with width.
How about a narrow round bar vs the wider bar. Is the difference in width only? This is the frustrating thing with non-tech peopke doing stuff like this.
a helpful test would’ve been the same bar at different widths. you have different bars at different widths.
But what about 37cm non-aero to remove the aero bar variable from the comparison? (Doesn't matter how much you do, it's never enough for these people!)
Mine are 36cm. I chose them for comfort with narrow shoulders.
Feel like results are also dependent on body size and shape the way this test was conducted.
I’d never buy a stock build because the bars are always too wide. Now we’re going the other way which also isn’t good. Measure between your shoulder bones and choose the right handlebar specific for you. Don’t choose it because you might save 5 watts at 40km. Never copy the pros - you just end up poor and uncomfortable on the wrong bike.
I thought angling in hoods is more about hand position and when you're sitting with forearms level - helps keep elbows/arms narrower but keeping wrists comfortable. not clear how much the benefit you show is due to aero bars, not width alone.
Actually yes narrower handlebar provides better aerodynamic effects and it saves you a lot of watts, there are certain handlebar lengths and it should line up with your shoulders, the arms reach shouldnt be straight but be a bit bent, and bent hoods provide more comfortable grip but at a risk of risking damaging your handlebar or the clamps especially with weak carbon handlebars this is a major issue for some
Narrow bars are very twitchy at 37cm and hard to keep a straight course.
Used to ride 40cm but have gone to 38cm and now if feels weird to go back to 40cm when I switch to my gravel bike.
So how to read final test results on normal vs angled hoods? Like so: you take into consideration the resolution of the wind tunnel and the repeatability of the rider position. You do this by enough repetitions and will probably find a value spread bigger than the differences of the final results you showed on screen. But even if these are a averaged result of a sufficient number of test repetitions I'd wager the difference is still smaller than the confidence region or error margin.
Put more simply and evident even for the layperson: the small and divergent differences between yaw settings and speed of normal vs angled hoods are in a way that the conclusion should have been: "Well, quantitatively we can't say anything for this test rider. It can be of benefit for you, it could be a detriment for you or it totally could be that it doesn't matter at all. Angle the hoods like you feel you can hold a proven aero position (in lieu of angled vs normal) for longer and for more secure riding."
At least that's what I would say after these results. :)
should tested a flat bar vs the others
@@einundsiebenziger5488 should test*
Conventional wide bars compared with aero narrow bars confounds the effect of aero vs conventional and narrow vs wide. In other words, the wattage gains cannot be clearly attributed to either the aero bars or their narrowness. This testing should have compared wide aero with narrow aero to see what the aero bar effect is. Same for the conventional bars: wide vs narrow. Maybe you'd find that narrow vs wide is the main reason for the decreased watts. Just sayin'...
My shoulder is only 37cm wide, but I don't like handlebar narrower than 40cm, make the bike difficult to handle.
I was hoping same bike no rider different bars from 44 that that bike would be sold with down to 38. With levers because it’s about the bars not lever set up.
If I angle my hoods in, my elbows tend to stick out. I can fight it, but they will go back out when I stop thinking about it. I'm sure that doesn't help being more aero! Anyone else?
Whether angled hood are are more aero or not, they look stupid! Not for me!
NYC guy here..... this would not work for us "urban riders" needing lots of agility, the constant weave of other foot/bike/car traffic, squeezes, potholes, constant jumping in and out of the saddle (all similar to technical crits). BUT, understandable for the open road I suppose
I ride a fast ebike Specialized Creo near 28 mph and noticed a big difference when I changed to 38cm Roval Rapide aero bars. I use less battery or go faster.
What size is your Creo?
@@wilsonho3828 M but I am only 5'6"
Saving .034% watts with my angled hoods going 13.8 mph.
Unfortunately those handlebars are not in stock anywhere…..
My cockpit is full of bell, phone mount, headlight, etc. But I am sure an aero handlebar will make me faster.
😁
Good one! 😂 I really like my aero handle bars because it gives my hands more surface to rest on, thus less pressure on the hands than on the round ones.
yeh i even recall i desired to touch on some pointers on brake lever positions on mindy the monkeys cycling then the little monkey got my ass out (fucking lol snare grimace) such as in the monkeyanse
Your conclusions don't match up with your data. The data says that in the hoods a narrow AND aero bar are significantly faster even at 30 kph over a wider non-aero bar. The drops were about the same. For the angled, there is barely any difference going straight (perhaps in the noise band of your ability to collect data). There is a slight benefit in crosswinds.
Where tights go quick
Often I am thinking this: Who did more sport or performance? The rider on a Brompton folding bike or the rider on a high end super light 20.000 bucks road bike. So for what we are doing all these afford to reduce weight, drag? Mostly we are not in a competition. The only thing what I would let matters, is the fun on technics, reduce drag and weight as a technical discipline.
Can you make your content inclusive by formatting the auto captioning into closed captioning please? it is extremely hard to watch it relying only on the auto captioning sadly (I'm Profoundly Deaf)
Need wider forks, but narrower bars.... all for "aero." 🤣
That’s why you can’t play eyeball aerodynamics. Forks are wide to have lower pressure between the wheel/tire and the fork.
@@jonathanzappala Interesting, as my BE(Aerospace) & Masters in Science, plus 25 years in the aviation industry makes means I'm not using "eyeball aerodynamics." 🤷♂️
Trust me, putting 2 poles (arms) closer together increases drag by causing them to interact. The theory is the same, with slightly different variables.
But yeah, lol, I'll take pseudo-scienfltific "research" down by a RUclipsr & backed up by a random commenter as my "research." 🤦♂️
As much as I love Dave's channel & work, there is so much wrong with this study that it doesn't actually tell us anything. (Starting with using different profile bars when the width is changed.)
Narrow bars restricted my breathing I’d rather breath and be less aero
That is hardly ever a limiting factor.
Every race I see, the pros riding the super narrow bars/position are chicken winging. Is that really faster?
Narrow to a point, but no narrower is where we're likely to end up. That will probably means 38-40 for most people is fastest in the real world
Lose a kew kilos and adopt a Remco style tuck wearing a skin suit for true gains.
no wonder the difference with angled was so small - he did nothing to utilise the angled hoods properly! cmon! It is the angle AND the way you apply your hands and body to the front...
this test is flawed... they literally changed the narrow bar to an aero one instead of using a narrower standard bar for comparison.
No more angled hoods due to new UCI rules. Good!
Sorry to say, but this test is useless. You swapped a regular bar to an aero-shaped bar, what probably triggered a bigger difference by itself
Won't make a scap of difference to the average Joe save your money.
Hi I'm average Joe....it helped me to be faster especially in a head wind 38cm bars
Average Joe’s shoulders are smaller than 42cm, so tell me how the right size handlebar doesn’t make a difference?
@@jonathanzappala It's not going to turn you into a world beater, you may gain a couple of Strava PR's 🤣
@@truthseeker8483 Did you get a Strava PR for your money?
Why not on a beach cruiser or a city bike? If fast is not the quest, then why bother road bike after all?
you should measure without rider
Have mostly 2 piece aero on all 11 bikes a couple 1 piece,aliexpress has them way cheaper than anyone,waiting on another set now
My girl keeps telling me size doesn’t matter…