I always say, it's good to have as much information as possible about things before you go into working on them, but, It's what you choose to do with that information that is important. It's good to share any knowledge we can, and some creators will want to talk about specific things that may not concern others, so, the others might just want to look at other content. Thank you for your work in sharing this with us!
Tony I appreciate you filming these clips on basic theory, I love playing around on the bench with scrap components. I would get bored with watching you solder components in if it weren't for your tech talks thank you for taking the time to share. Stay warm
Tony- you can turn off the "forward " slash on your Scope, I have the Exact same setup (tek 2467B and 2465B) since you are already in X-Y mode while you have everything on as you do just simply turn off ch1 and leave ch2 on and you will find the slash is gone, ch1 is still enabled in x-y mode and with ch1 off you can still adjust gain, this is for the Tek 2400 Series Scopes, not sure how this setting affects other brands and model, your Videos are always Great !
I remember some very early transistors with transition frequencies in the audio band, even down as low as 10kHz, which made them really great in power supplies, as they pretty much would be stable, but replacing them with newer parts would result in oscillation. Same for old 2N3055 transistors, some of the original designs relied on the transition frequency for stability, and putting in newer process transistors, marked 2N3055, but with modern processing that shifted the transition frequency up to 10's of mehgahertz, like the 2N3773, would result in the circuit oscillating and burning out the transistors. You had to add in extra filtering, like 10R and 470p into the base emitter side, to provide this extra filtering, and lower the transition frequency back down to make them stable again.
Oh the "good ole days" replacing original components (unavailable at the time of replacement) with more modern equivalents. I experienced this digital TTL devices. Designs that worked with original components had to be "tamed" with liberal application of capacitances to slow them down.
Tony, thank you again for the time you take on bringing such subjects to us. Nevermind the negative comments. It's not like you are saying that this 1000$ iec mains cable is making your stereo sound better. You actually know what you are stating! Thanks again!
I completely forgot that I learnt that at college! Thanks for the refresh, very informative. I guess I forgot it because primarily I repair valve radios as a hobby and P.Cs/Laptops/Comms equipment as a job, so I don't deal with discrete transistors that much any more. Interestingly I've just watched a video by @Ptronix who touched on the subject of the Miller effect while building an active probe for a signal tracer. It's amazing how many things affect the performance characteristics of transistors and F.E.Ts. and divert them from their original performance specs.
Good stuff! Would love to know more about curve tracers, so will do some research. Thanks for the look and just plain thanks for what you are doing for us out here in UT desert.
Thank you for the exellent explaination that most of the amplifier "tricks" is to workaround the physical effects. As an analog IC designer for 30y i would be very unhappy with the current state of model informations for discrete devices. That dissappoint people try to use Spice for discrete designs because the simulations results fail to match measurement on the boards. They blame the simulator but its the don't care policies of the vendors. Even complex analog ICs lack accurate interface and internal working models which could be simulated. The big A and T think its some kind of secrete but miss the essentials of a working engineering community. Barry Gilbert gave a class in foundation desgin where he show how iterative incooperation of the more physical effects modelling allow a designer to separate the results and judge his circuit topology countermeasures. Prob. ADI think its to secret to heritage his knowledge. For the "early" ist important to know that the "interpolated" crossing voltage depend on current and voltages as well. Its non-linear. And because of selfheating in static it could get infinite. I fight in early days that foundries should extract to better models like VBIC, Mextram, HiCUM and even today still HiCUM II is lacking specific effects in very high speed designs which are essential to analog design. To me ist a broken business model to think a lazy model support its part of a fab.
Loved the ring tone from the cellphone hahaha looks like it came out of a disney movie. but anyway, this basic theory videos are awesome. I'm currently reading AoE, i've been through the transistor chapter but I need to be honest that not all of it is very clear to me, sometimes I have to come back and re-read stuff. Maybe I should make some experiments along the way to visualize things better, I don't know. But anyways, These kinds of videos are awesome. Thank you for that. And greetings from Brazil! :)
Sympathies. My problems with learning anything about electronics has always been the difficulties in identifying the "dependent" and "independent" variables. That is, if X can affect Y, then surely Y can also affect X. The reason it can't usually has to do with the adaptive nature of power supplies or something. Also, very quickly in most texts, the authors start throwing in additional components that aren't the point of the examples, but whose purposes also aren't always explained. I guess by then it's supposed to be obvious by that point, but some of us code (good) hacker types are slow learners when it comes to the electron. Slowly, some things do sink in.
Tony this was perfect timing, I just finished building the kit and have started using it. As a novice calculating Hfe has been a challenge, and this really helps. This is probably obvious to many, but I have watched the video several times and reviewed the documentation I got with my kit (yours seems to have more detail) but I do not understand how you came up with the 1mv=1ma. I am asking because I also have a tracer built into the Digilent Discovery 2 and want to use it for small transistors. I was concerned that the 1mv=1ma may be tracer dependent.
Excellent video but check that curve tracer as there must something wrong with it. I've got the very same kit and mine does not display that diagonal artifact seen in yours!
Another great video Tony 👍. I love the 2467B, have you replaced all the Rifa X caps in it yet? Unfortunately my 2465B let out the magic smoke before I got around to doing it, that was a real mess to clean up😠 My HP signal generator did it too so now I just open up any old test gear I get and they are the first thing I replace.
Indeed, lots of vids on RUclips about it like on EEV blog, perhaps Tony could do a video about some preventative maintenance on some of his test equipment 🤔 👍
There seems to be a conflict: At 11:02 , the pop-up says:” As higher voltages are applied….the depletion region increases….”, then the last sentence says: “increasing Vce further decreases the effective depletion region…..” of the collector -base, or emitter -base ? Please clarify. I’m thinking it would be better said: increasing Vce increases collector base depletion width, thereby decreasing width of the charge carrier portion of the base.
After re-reading I guess the statement could be considered grammatically correct. If There are two depletion regions between the base and collector. One effectively gets smaller while the other gets bigger, making the gain increase.
"Audio-phools" aren't the people that know how transistor effects work, audiophools are the people that pay thousands of dollars for a power cable, or put "magic rocks" on their "interconnects" so the cable has good fug-shui, or "demagnetize their cd's"
You could teach me this stuff all day long, shame I didn't think like that years ago !! great video as always...cheers.
I'm guessing Tony didn't connect the rear-panel Z-AXIS input!
I always say, it's good to have as much information as possible about things before you go into working on them, but, It's what you choose to do with that information that is important.
It's good to share any knowledge we can, and some creators will want to talk about specific things that may not concern others, so, the others might just want to look at other content.
Thank you for your work in sharing this with us!
Tony I appreciate you filming these clips on basic theory, I love playing around on the bench with scrap components. I would get bored with watching you solder components in if it weren't for your tech talks thank you for taking the time to share. Stay warm
Tony- you can turn off the "forward " slash on your Scope, I have the Exact same setup (tek 2467B and 2465B) since you are already in X-Y mode while you have everything on as you do just simply turn off ch1 and leave ch2 on and you will find the slash is gone, ch1 is still enabled in x-y mode and with ch1 off you can still adjust gain, this is for the Tek 2400 Series Scopes, not sure how this setting affects other brands and model, your Videos are always Great !
I remember some very early transistors with transition frequencies in the audio band, even down as low as 10kHz, which made them really great in power supplies, as they pretty much would be stable, but replacing them with newer parts would result in oscillation. Same for old 2N3055 transistors, some of the original designs relied on the transition frequency for stability, and putting in newer process transistors, marked 2N3055, but with modern processing that shifted the transition frequency up to 10's of mehgahertz, like the 2N3773, would result in the circuit oscillating and burning out the transistors. You had to add in extra filtering, like 10R and 470p into the base emitter side, to provide this extra filtering, and lower the transition frequency back down to make them stable again.
Oh the "good ole days" replacing original components (unavailable at the time of replacement) with more modern equivalents. I experienced this digital TTL devices. Designs that worked with original components had to be "tamed" with liberal application of capacitances to slow them down.
Tony, thank you again for the time you take on bringing such subjects to us. Nevermind the negative comments. It's not like you are saying that this 1000$ iec mains cable is making your stereo sound better. You actually know what you are stating! Thanks again!
hi tony, thank you for this interesting video, and for taking the time to clearly explain. i could have watched another hour. cheers
I love these 'quick n dirty' lessons. Even if it's over my head.
Thanks
Great video as always. A joy to watch!
Excellent video Tony... thank you.
I completely forgot that I learnt that at college! Thanks for the refresh, very informative. I guess I forgot it because primarily I repair valve radios as a hobby and P.Cs/Laptops/Comms equipment as a job, so I don't deal with discrete transistors that much any more. Interestingly I've just watched a video by @Ptronix who touched on the subject of the Miller effect while building an active probe for a signal tracer. It's amazing how many things affect the performance characteristics of transistors and F.E.Ts. and divert them from their original performance specs.
Your videos bring me joy every day, Tony. Learning lots.
Thank you for sharing. (Good videos, as always) ..Have nice weekend.
Good stuff! Would love to know more about curve tracers, so will do some research. Thanks for the look and just plain thanks for what you are doing for us out here in UT desert.
I've been meaning to do a video on my little Hameg curve tracer module. This just gave me some inspiration.
Super video! Thanks!
Thank you for the exellent explaination that most of the amplifier "tricks" is to workaround the physical effects. As an analog IC designer for 30y i would be very unhappy with the current state of model informations for discrete devices. That dissappoint people try to use Spice for discrete designs because the simulations results fail to match measurement on the boards. They blame the simulator but its the don't care policies of the vendors. Even complex analog ICs lack accurate interface and internal working models which could be simulated. The big A and T think its some kind of secrete but miss the essentials of a working engineering community.
Barry Gilbert gave a class in foundation desgin where he show how iterative incooperation of the more physical effects modelling allow a designer to separate the results and judge his circuit topology countermeasures. Prob. ADI think its to secret to heritage his knowledge.
For the "early" ist important to know that the "interpolated" crossing voltage depend on current and voltages as well. Its non-linear. And because of selfheating in static it could get infinite. I fight in early days that foundries should extract to better models like VBIC, Mextram, HiCUM and even today still HiCUM II is lacking specific effects in very high speed designs which are essential to analog design. To me ist a broken business model to think a lazy model support its part of a fab.
@4:20 Your popup maths should be 7 / 0.024 = 291.666 - ( You Put 0.024 / 7 = 291.6 ) I just thought I would let you know.
Loved the ring tone from the cellphone hahaha looks like it came out of a disney movie. but anyway, this basic theory videos are awesome. I'm currently reading AoE, i've been through the transistor chapter but I need to be honest that not all of it is very clear to me, sometimes I have to come back and re-read stuff. Maybe I should make some experiments along the way to visualize things better, I don't know. But anyways, These kinds of videos are awesome. Thank you for that. And greetings from Brazil! :)
My roommate had a flip-phone where one of the options was a perky female voice:
"Hello... hello.... answer the phone...!"
Sympathies. My problems with learning anything about electronics has always been the difficulties in identifying the "dependent" and "independent" variables. That is, if X can affect Y, then surely Y can also affect X. The reason it can't usually has to do with the adaptive nature of power supplies or something. Also, very quickly in most texts, the authors start throwing in additional components that aren't the point of the examples, but whose purposes also aren't always explained. I guess by then it's supposed to be obvious by that point, but some of us code (good) hacker types are slow learners when it comes to the electron. Slowly, some things do sink in.
Tony this was perfect timing, I just finished building the kit and have started using it. As a novice calculating Hfe has been a challenge, and this really helps. This is probably obvious to many, but I have watched the video several times and reviewed the documentation I got with my kit (yours seems to have more detail) but I do not understand how you came up with the 1mv=1ma. I am asking because I also have a tracer built into the Digilent Discovery 2 and want to use it for small transistors. I was concerned that the 1mv=1ma may be tracer dependent.
Excellent video but check that curve tracer as there must something wrong with it.
I've got the very same kit and mine does not display that diagonal artifact seen in yours!
2:30 - At first I saw that artifact as the 'load line' :)
some critical circuits like the HP 3300A used a heated PCB oven chamber to keep things stable 🧐thanks
'Audio-fool', really? You are no audio-fool, Tony! There are PLENTY of other videos that display audio foolishness on here!
this video could explain why Fisher had limited luck with solid state when they started making transistor equipment
I get the same diagonal line on my 2445 scope in xy mode with both ch 1 and 2 enabled. disable ch 1 and the line goes away. I hope that helps.
Another great video Tony 👍. I love the 2467B, have you replaced all the Rifa X caps in it yet? Unfortunately my 2465B let out the magic smoke before I got around to doing it, that was a real mess to clean up😠 My HP signal generator did it too so now I just open up any old test gear I get and they are the first thing I replace.
RIFA madness! 😮
Indeed, lots of vids on RUclips about it like on EEV blog, perhaps Tony could do a video about some preventative maintenance on some of his test equipment 🤔 👍
There seems to be a conflict: At 11:02 , the pop-up says:” As higher voltages are applied….the depletion region increases….”, then the last sentence says: “increasing Vce further decreases the effective depletion region…..” of the collector -base, or emitter -base ? Please clarify.
I’m thinking it would be better said: increasing Vce increases collector base depletion width, thereby decreasing width of the charge carrier portion of the base.
I think what I took from it is that as Vce increases so does gain.
@@jonka1 I agree. The scope display illustrated. I just thought the pop-up statement was a bit confusing./misleading.
After re-reading I guess the statement could be considered grammatically correct. If There are two depletion regions between the base and collector. One effectively gets smaller while the other gets bigger, making the gain increase.
"Audio-phools" aren't the people that know how transistor effects work, audiophools are the people that pay thousands of dollars for a power cable, or put "magic rocks" on their "interconnects" so the cable has good fug-shui, or "demagnetize their cd's"
Tighten it all up with brevity to make it better