youd think it would be fast, but i suspect theyll have to go to the pokemon center a lot, just to restore powerpoints (they only get 5), they get gust at level 22. Both can learn tm31 maybe theres other accessible tms, but that will be an annoying feature
Deleting Bite on Raikou so early feels like a blunder - that's its only coverage option that utilizes its base 115 SpAtk, making it stronger in most cases than Headbutt, and with the same flinch chance. Could have used it for Bruno's Onix, allowing retention of Reflect, and possibly Jasmine's Steelix (even though Steel resists Dark, the phys/special stat difference in both Raikou and Steelix is massive). I suspect it would have saved time on the various Hiker type NPCs not shown in the footage as well.
I agree. Dark moves being special meant that in the 2nd gen they were still a legit move against many steel types, who tended to have a lot of physical defense, but not so much special. Another blunder is not teaching Return earlier. After 25 level ups or so, plus how many steps he had walked at that point, Return probably would have been stronger than Headbutt, and in any fight that flinches aren't required, the better move.
Chock it up to whatever, you always have solid timing on jokes, etc... and anytime we're talking about moves/stats, and so on it's really clear where to look for what we need to see Overall really solid skills that you should be proud of. I don't usually see editing so clean
Honestly I’d rather have 3 videos, there is too much going on on the screen for me to follow along 😅 Edit: okay it’s not that bad, still I would like 3 videos, the more jrose content the merrier
He said in the past that he preferred to do them as singular videos so that the videos were shorter, and also so people can easily skip runs they don't want to watch
Deffo agree on the hidden power call if you don't manipulate IVs. The disparity in times between good and bad IVs would be big in gen 1, but would be absurd if you had a good pokémon with a 70 BP HP ice to tear through the mid-late game vs. A pokémon with dunno, a 30 BP HP grass or bug getting brick walled by Lance's Dragonite or something.
@@Dragostorm21hidden power was always meant to be a funny little gimmick move that was "mysterious" as you'd never know what type/power it'd be. But in practice, it ended up becoming this ubiquitous coverage move for special attackers.
Hidden power was supposed to be a gimmicky hihihi move, and outside of competitive, where IVs were a complete nightmare until like, gen 9 anyways, the HP type barely actually matters since nearly always you'll get a either a shit HP type or shit BP, meaning it's niche at best.@@Dragostorm21
I think Suicune did the best overall, but Entei was such a surprise come-back king that it's an honorable mention. Raikou is just let down by it's move-pool, but then again, somehow it got the best time in your play-through. So, they all win in different ways, but Suicune seemed to have the most consistent time of things.
Raikou straight up is the best of the beasts. Entei is over rated, Suicune has a lousy move pool, but Raikou even w move pool is the most diverse in stats where it counts.
I'd give it to Entei. It didn't need to significantly change tact in order to close out. The level and time differences are really so minor that I think it would be unfair to give them heavy weight in the comparisons. I think the fact that it could just go in and unga bunga with Return rather than Curse, Rest, Toxic, Protect shenanigans really speaks to it carrying itself the best.
Oh, baby, a triple! In the Bugsy fight, Suicune could have used Bite, instead of Water Gun, since it has effectively the same power, and could have flinched Scyther out of Fury Cutter.
Yes, I would like to see a similar run with Legendary Birds. Mainly due to how much differently would Moltres perform in Gen 2 compared to Gen 1 from starting move set alone.
I think Entei has to have it since you were feeling out your strategies during that run, and since the time difference is so minor. If you did another Entei run knowing what you learned it would definitely be faster.
my personal bias goes out to raikou. it gets massively shorted in gold and silver because it doesnt learn thunderbolt, leaving you with either spark or thunder, as well as physical moves on its mediocre attack stat for coverage. the fact that it clutched out first at that level is nuts. its also just my favorite out of the three ;) now... birds 🐦
I feel like Red's Snorlax in gen 2 is kind of a reverse Brock from gen 1. It's an insane wall for primarily special attackers and if your solo run pokemon can't deal with it it will have a bad time. Unfortunately the solution is generally going to be curse + return.
@@DJFracus overall there's just no good answers. Any special type has big problems with snorlax. Psychic less so, but has big problems with Karen. Rock has a severe Steelix problem. Steel isn't very good. Every single other physical type has an immunity. Unown is just fundamentally not an interesting pokemon, there's no strategy to it, you just check at the start of the run which hidden power is mathematically the best.
@@franslair2199 If HP Psychic's STAB boost is needed to get past Red and nothing else could, then it is in fact the best answer, even if it gets slowed down by Karen.
Agreed. I know some solo runners like Scott's Thoughts just manipulate for the best IV's and Hidden Power to suit the Pokemon, but I like Jrose's more raw-feeling runs without them. Scott goes for the absolute best-case scenario, Jrose goes for the best realistic run that other players can easily replicate if they want to.
For Suicune's fight against Morty, Surf (95 BP STAB = 142.5 effective power) actually does more than Bite (60 BP super-effective = 120 BP) - that probably would have been enough to secure the OHKO on Haunter, though Gengar obviously still poses an issue.
Great video. I think rain dance+thunder would make a difference, only takes a turn to set up and then you can spam thunders; big power increase from spark
I believe that would get walled by Venusaur both resisting thunder and replacing rain with sunny day. Would've been interesting to see get tried, at least.
@@3eve0n You'd just use Crunch for Venusaur after the Sunny Day. Raikou will still get one Thunder in first and a resisted STAB Thunder is still 90 power.
I couldn't help myself when he mentioned the inconsistency of his strategy in Cianwood, so here's a little math: Entei was a two-shot with surf from Poliwrath, which was a four hit K.O. with headbutt from Entei, both moves are 100% accurate. There are now two ways to lose this battle: 1. Get no crits in the first three attacks and also less than two flinches 2. Get only one crit in the first two attacks and no flinches. If one gets two crits, Poliwrath has no time to take Entei out, similarly for a crit and a flinch or two flinches. Bulbapedia states that headbutt flinches with a chance of 3/10, crits in gen II occur with a fixed unboosted rate of 17/256. As crits and flinches can occur at the same time to the same effect, we can use to separate binomial distributions to find the probabilities of losing: For case 1: (1-17/256)^3 * [(1-3/10)^3 + 3 * (1-3/10)^2 * 3/10] ~= 64%, and for case 2: 2 * (1-17/256) * 17/256 * (1-3/10)^2 ~= 6%. Therefore the success rate of this strategy is about 30%, which even exceeds the bound of 25% that Jrose set for himself. Even though it looks inconsistent it is not as bad as it seems (if I did my math right) Thank you for reading my nonsense, if you made it to here :)
Love this! But from what I can see, you haven’t taken into account Poliwrath’s chance to crit as well? So it would be even less likely to get the win, but not by that much.
The reason I stopped doing gen 2 solo challenges was that almost all of them bouled down to Return+Curse+Detect+Leftovers. It took the fun out of it. Considered banning curse, but then all I'd be doing is going back at slightly higher levels until a strat worked.
Regarding spinners, although these runs are typically done vanilla with the only modification being a GameShark code to edit the starter, you may want to consider modding the game further. For example, you could change the behavior of optional trainers to remove their "vision" range, causing them to only battle you when you interact with them. Just something to keep in mind if you plan on doing a lot of runs in Gen II and beyond.
I love this video! The dynamic of three Pokemon racing is great. I would want to see how Mewtwo does just to get a bearing on how fast we should expect Pokemon to win in Gen 2 vs. Gen 1.
Mewtwo learns the three elemental punches and starts with STAB confusion. Damn, that'd be an absolute fucking massacre. Remember how Abra tore gen 2 a new one once it arrived in Goldenrod. Imagine that with over double the stats and being able to attack from the beginning.
@@youtube-kit9450 Curious enough, one of the very first obligatory trainers in Ruby and Sapphire walls Mewtwo something fierce. You are forced to rely on Struggle to get past that poochyena. I don't remember if there is a similar trainer in gen 2, though. I think it isn't but...
@@lenlimbo hahaha no he won't. Gen 2 having the punches as TMs in goldenrod really invites an ass-whooping of colossal dimensions for those that learn them. But also thanks for the chuckle of the mighty god of destruction being walled by a pupperoni lol
I was already subscribed but your Caterpie trio run and now this vid in particular, along with all the other content you put out, have been absolutely top tier. Mad good content
It's super cool to see this style of video given bunching up Pokemon is likely going to be needed. I also can't believe how they shook out. Seeing your rules put through though were very interesting :)
Was not expecting the count impression 🤣 way to go jrose! Great video as always. was very interesting to watch. I'd also be curious if you would consider doing this in hg/ss with the physical/special split and updated moves to see if, and how much of a difference it would make! Anyway keep up the great work jrose, always look forward to your videos ❤
Hey jrose, love this video format. Transitioning from gen 1 to gen 2 i appreciate the explanation for each type and pokemon; sprinkled in other facts.. Makes the videos digest better and follow along. Very nostalgic for this and all upcoming videos. Happy NYE 🎉
I’m super happy I actually get to watch a Jrose video at around the same time it comes out! I found your channel a few months back and have been watching so many of your videos. Majority of them are from 2-3 years ago though. Love giving you support! Please keep these coming!
Holy shit. A fantastic idea! A Gen 2 solo run with a legendary trio, including Suicune?! Let’s go! Thank you Jrose, been very bored at home waiting for things to thaw out!
You don't owe us the Count, and I'm glad you've taken the right break from it. But hearing it again this time was a special moment. Appreciate you Jrose 🧛🧛♂🧛♀
Oh hell yeah, thank you for dropping a video right when I need something fun to think about! I love how it feels like listening to a sports radio announcer in your videos. It is legitimately exciting!
Great compilation idea, although I'll just skip to the next step of rankings and say Articuno is the worst of all 32:15 Machamp actually has slightly (5 BST) higher Sp Def than Def
Very excited to see the Legendary birds in this format I know you said you gave the rival the advantage pokemon, but I don't think we saw a single rival battle, did we? Silver really letting the Rival Fival name down
A cool idea for a video would be a no items OUTside of battle. So if you want to heal or use an elixer during the elite four, you have to find windows during the battle to do it. Also opens up X items for a run. Showcases a whole different set of strats.
Would it be, though? This means every battle you can just use a bunch of x items to maximize attack, heal and sweep. X items trivialize literally every battle that you don't get one-shot at.
@@youtube-kit9450 There's obviously limits to that, which would be interesting. Can you afford enough X items to use them on every battle? If so, what does that do to minimum battles and minimum level challenges? Can X items make up for starting EVERY elite 4 battle with partial health and pp? I don't know the answer to those questions. Hence a good video.
@@TonioQuo7 How is doing one video of that worse in your mind than the 80th video of, "Not strong enough, time to grind"? This showcases the limits in a new way.
@@nathanrice7352 I never said it was worse? Just sounds like a boring idea, just as a ton of other things could be, item spam is just amongst those boring ideas lol
Nice showdown. I say it’s a tie within the margin of error. Some different strengths and weaknesses for each of them. I liked that the end needed some different strategy for each of them. Headbut, return and irontail as a combo doesn’t exactly showcase that they are elemental super dogs.
I’m so glad you did the post game in this video too, so many people save it for a second video but I love it all in one. Keep up the great work! Thanks for all the entertainment! 🙌🏼👏🏼
The editing on this one was really good! Perfect bouncing between each one to really get a good comparison of each one along the journey. I say suicune is the best of the 3. Even though raikou had the best time it struggled the most because of its movepool for most of the game.
Fantastic video as usual! I hope we see more of these versus-style videos from you in the future. Scott's Thoughts has been doing them for a while and they're always fun to watch, but you and your videos have a totally different vibe to them.
I really enjoyed this style compared to individual runs. Obviously this was at least three to four times the effort and time to produce. However, it was well done, fun to watch, and fun to have an immediate comparison of the runs. Well done, as always!
Great video. I'm team Raikou so I'm happy to see it was ythe fastest and without prior knowledge of how a run should go. I'm rooting for Ho-oh in the next head to head challenge run.
The times and levels are so even that I think the winner goes to Entei. It didn't really have to completely change tactics to pull out a victory like the other two did. Being forced into Curse on a special attacker and Toxic stall on a Pokemon that otherwise had no real trouble up to that point says more about Entei's ease-of-use as it could just keep doing what it had always been doing.
Right. Especially the Curse strat is kind of something that any Pokémon could theoretically fall back on, so while that is the benefit of Gen II's wider selection of TMs, it shows Raikou's own poor selection in moves when it has to, at the final step, revert to a sort of "general" strategy like Curse buffing. With Suicune, at least its more defensive stats lends it to naturally having a decent ability to take a stall-lean to its movepool (see also Karen's Umbreon). Would say it goes between Entei and Suicune then.
OTOH, Raikou being the only beast that could really succeed with a curse strat is a legitimate advantage that should be reflected in the rankings -- the only question is if its enough to make up for its difficulties earlier in the game.
Bro you are my favorite Pokemon creator bar none. Found you at the end of 2022 when my work days were 10-12 hours and you were doing a video like every day. Really helped me get thru that December
Why not try Sleep Talk? In GSC it can call Rest. All of the beasts are pretty tanky, so I feel like RestTalk or even MintRest sets might've helped in some inconsistent fights.
Great way to start off the new year! Honestly, with how close these runs were for Gold and Silver at the end, Raikou probably would still be the one to win since the final strategy against doesn’t need as many levels compared to Suicune or Entei.
Another great video, Jrose. Love the idea of banning hidden power. It's my least favorite part of any gen2 runs. Especially the suspiciously large number of streamers who say they randomly got HP ice.
15:45 the probability was a lot higher than 10%. The probability of 2 flinches in a row is 9% (0.3 * 0.3). But you had way more outcomes than that. You needed 2 flinches out of 3. The probability for at least 2 out of 3 is "P(2 flinches) + P(3flinches)" = "1 - P(0 flinches) - P(1 flinch)" = "1 - 0.343 - 0.441" = "0.216". So you had a probability of 21.6% for at least 2 flinches out of 3. As an alternativ way of beating that fight you could also have had a flinch and a crit which would further increase the probability of winning. So the 25% was pretty accurate.
And just when I made a rock cover of the theme of "Goldenrod City", Jrose came with this gem of a video to start the year. Gen 2 is one, if not, my favorite region. The nostalgia they give me is out of this world and the Pokemon there were always so cool, especially the legendary. Raikou will forever be my favorite legendary dog but they were all amazing.
Thoughts about this type of run: How do the legendary birds fair in Johto and compared with the kanto runs, additionally how do the kanto starters fair in the roles of the johto starters.
Suicune was my guess from the beginning, between early Surf and having ice coverage. As predicted, it arrived at Red with a great time, but I think it got kinda shafted at the end by user error, having to take the extra trip. Raikou did surprisingly well given its lack of a proper STAB move, and Entei did surprisingly well, period.
You can't consider user error to be a determining factor due to it not being a changing variable. You might point out this specific point as an error that slowed down Suicune, but you could then go back and point out errors from other parts of the runs that slowed down Raikou and Entei. Since they were all run by the same person, it was a fair race between the pokemon, and they all finished neck and neck.
@@SgtSupaman Being run by the same person doesn't mean that person can't make mistakes that adversely impact one run more than the others, as admitted by Jrose himself. Having to take a third trip to Red is a costly mistake. We can assume that time loss from minor movement mistakes probably average out to be similar in all three runs, so routing is the primary concern with regard to how they perform relative to one another. From what we saw in the video, there were no other singular mistakes that cost so much time in any of the runs.
@@caliburnleaf9323 , except Jrose also outright admits that the Entei run was impacted by being the guinea pig for strategies. And I've seen other people suggest move mistakes that probably significantly slowed Raikou's run. There were probably even other mistakes impacting Suicune that weren't shown in the final editing of footage. All in all, it evens out. Not because the mistakes wind up the exact same, but because this isn't about finding an absolutely perfect run. Suicune not being able to hack that last battle without having to go back for an item was just part of something that took more time because of the pokemon, not the user. The other two did not require that, so they took less time for that part of the run.
For the trainer spinning solution you might want to reach out to Scott to see if his solution would work for your runs. They adjust the programming to where the trainers always spin away from you. Technically a cheat bur game play wise it's so much better.
You should have used bite instead of water gun for scyther. It's the same effectice power, but you get a chance of flinching (and stopping the fury cutter momentum).
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Gonna be really interesting to see how things go with Lugia and Ho-oh especially since they start with base 100 power stab moves in gen 2.
Yeah that's going to be a fun one but the one I'm waiting to see is swampert in fire red leaf green
youd think it would be fast, but i suspect theyll have to go to the pokemon center a lot, just to restore powerpoints (they only get 5), they get gust at level 22.
Both can learn tm31
maybe theres other accessible tms, but that will be an annoying feature
Lugia especially, Aeroblast is an insane move. Might be a candidate for minimum battles honestly.
My prediction is that most of the game will just melt
Scotts thoughts has done that exact video. Was honestly super interesting
Deleting Bite on Raikou so early feels like a blunder - that's its only coverage option that utilizes its base 115 SpAtk, making it stronger in most cases than Headbutt, and with the same flinch chance. Could have used it for Bruno's Onix, allowing retention of Reflect, and possibly Jasmine's Steelix (even though Steel resists Dark, the phys/special stat difference in both Raikou and Steelix is massive). I suspect it would have saved time on the various Hiker type NPCs not shown in the footage as well.
I agree. Dark moves being special meant that in the 2nd gen they were still a legit move against many steel types, who tended to have a lot of physical defense, but not so much special.
Another blunder is not teaching Return earlier. After 25 level ups or so, plus how many steps he had walked at that point, Return probably would have been stronger than Headbutt, and in any fight that flinches aren't required, the better move.
What is this? Legitimate critisim in a RUclips comment without calling the creator a slur? Unheard of.
Maybe he forgot bite was a special move?
I forget many times in gen 2 as well
I didn’t even realize it till reading this comment
@@zeemilios9327 Restoring my faith in humanity? Nah: that's impossible!
This is why Jrose is top tier. He's giving us 3 videos worth of content in one.
if you like this style of video (Pokemon race), I highly recommend you check out "Eggsceptional" - does the runs in firered, great content
He really does the most for us
I'm conflicted tbh
Gym Scott thoughts did a similar video.
I love him. Another great poketuber is Scott’s thoughts. He’s very thorough. He has tons of videos too.
AJ stepped up big time on this one. Always spot on editing but this one really takes the cake
I love the display with all of their moves
Jrose really let AJ cook.
Glad ya liked it! I just wanted to make sure I was able to show all the data in a cohesive manner haha.
Chock it up to whatever, you always have solid timing on jokes, etc... and anytime we're talking about moves/stats, and so on it's really clear where to look for what we need to see
Overall really solid skills that you should be proud of. I don't usually see editing so clean
@@Altair1243WAR Aha, thanks so much for the kind words!
Plot-twist: none of the above because they all just flee on the first turn
LMFAO
I’m respecting the hell out of this because most people would make this 3 separate videos
well to be fair he did 3 videos for most other trios such as the legendary birds. Still cool though
I think he should divide it up. He could put in the same effort and get the advantage of 3 videos making add revenue.
Honestly I’d rather have 3 videos, there is too much going on on the screen for me to follow along 😅
Edit: okay it’s not that bad, still I would like 3 videos, the more jrose content the merrier
He said in the past that he preferred to do them as singular videos so that the videos were shorter, and also so people can easily skip runs they don't want to watch
To be fair Scott's Thoughts also did this as one video very recently
Deffo agree on the hidden power call if you don't manipulate IVs. The disparity in times between good and bad IVs would be big in gen 1, but would be absurd if you had a good pokémon with a 70 BP HP ice to tear through the mid-late game vs. A pokémon with dunno, a 30 BP HP grass or bug getting brick walled by Lance's Dragonite or something.
The fact that the BP also changes is genuinely insane. What were they thinking?
@@Dragostorm21hidden power was always meant to be a funny little gimmick move that was "mysterious" as you'd never know what type/power it'd be. But in practice, it ended up becoming this ubiquitous coverage move for special attackers.
@@Dragostorm21 Probably that people wouldn't go full sweatlord on their games?
Hidden power was supposed to be a gimmicky hihihi move, and outside of competitive, where IVs were a complete nightmare until like, gen 9 anyways, the HP type barely actually matters since nearly always you'll get a either a shit HP type or shit BP, meaning it's niche at best.@@Dragostorm21
@@ianover6838 they started out as a trading card company, I’m pretty sure they could predict this fine
I think Suicune did the best overall, but Entei was such a surprise come-back king that it's an honorable mention. Raikou is just let down by it's move-pool, but then again, somehow it got the best time in your play-through. So, they all win in different ways, but Suicune seemed to have the most consistent time of things.
I think Raikou would be more consistent if Bite wasn't deleted
Raikou straight up is the best of the beasts. Entei is over rated, Suicune has a lousy move pool, but Raikou even w move pool is the most diverse in stats where it counts.
I'd give it to Entei. It didn't need to significantly change tact in order to close out.
The level and time differences are really so minor that I think it would be unfair to give them heavy weight in the comparisons. I think the fact that it could just go in and unga bunga with Return rather than Curse, Rest, Toxic, Protect shenanigans really speaks to it carrying itself the best.
Return is a physical move I believe so entei benefits from it.
Yeah my boy Entei just clapped vs Suicune and Raikou needing shenanigan plays
lmfao, unga bunga
"unga bunga return"
yupp... Entei is the best
Can’t believe it’s been 7 years since I saw your first Magikarp run on RBY. Im so glad you’re still around Jrose, you always make my day!
It was uploaded 5 years ago?
Oh, baby, a triple!
In the Bugsy fight, Suicune could have used Bite, instead of Water Gun, since it has effectively the same power, and could have flinched Scyther out of Fury Cutter.
was thinking this too, itd be more optimal
he most likely would have defeated Miltank as well using Bite
Yes, I would like to see a similar run with Legendary Birds. Mainly due to how much differently would Moltres perform in Gen 2 compared to Gen 1 from starting move set alone.
I think Entei has to have it since you were feeling out your strategies during that run, and since the time difference is so minor. If you did another Entei run knowing what you learned it would definitely be faster.
Minor time difference? The difference was nearly 7 hours! 1:05:38
@@bruuhhhh Damn, you're right.
@@bruuhhhhAm I missing something? The time difference is 5 minutes
@@shanemiller1182 if you go to the time stamp jrose accidentally says minutes instead of hours for raikous time
@@bruuhhhh I rewatched that clip like 5 times and somehow missed it every time haha
my personal bias goes out to raikou. it gets massively shorted in gold and silver because it doesnt learn thunderbolt, leaving you with either spark or thunder, as well as physical moves on its mediocre attack stat for coverage. the fact that it clutched out first at that level is nuts. its also just my favorite out of the three ;)
now... birds 🐦
A few people mentioned it but him dropping Bite so early also handicapped Raikou, dark is special in Gen 2
yeah the dark coverage of bite would have been good to keep until crunch i think, since its bp isnt that bad. hindsight is 20/20 for a reason though
I feel like Red's Snorlax in gen 2 is kind of a reverse Brock from gen 1. It's an insane wall for primarily special attackers and if your solo run pokemon can't deal with it it will have a bad time. Unfortunately the solution is generally going to be curse + return.
why I think all the "you should've used HP Dragon or HP Ice" commenters in the Unown video were wrong, he would've gotten hard stuck on Red that way
@@DJFracus overall there's just no good answers. Any special type has big problems with snorlax. Psychic less so, but has big problems with Karen. Rock has a severe Steelix problem. Steel isn't very good. Every single other physical type has an immunity. Unown is just fundamentally not an interesting pokemon, there's no strategy to it, you just check at the start of the run which hidden power is mathematically the best.
@@franslair2199 If HP Psychic's STAB boost is needed to get past Red and nothing else could, then it is in fact the best answer, even if it gets slowed down by Karen.
I love not using hidden power. It’s such a boring way to maneuver through the Gen. Great video
Agreed. I know some solo runners like Scott's Thoughts just manipulate for the best IV's and Hidden Power to suit the Pokemon, but I like Jrose's more raw-feeling runs without them. Scott goes for the absolute best-case scenario, Jrose goes for the best realistic run that other players can easily replicate if they want to.
For Suicune's fight against Morty, Surf (95 BP STAB = 142.5 effective power) actually does more than Bite (60 BP super-effective = 120 BP) - that probably would have been enough to secure the OHKO on Haunter, though Gengar obviously still poses an issue.
Great video. I think rain dance+thunder would make a difference, only takes a turn to set up and then you can spam thunders; big power increase from spark
Honestly it's not even an "I think" statement at this point, it would be tremendously helpful with Raikou's speed and sp attack!
Yeah, that was a surprise he didn't do it, specially since Entei used SD / SB on the first trip.
I believe that would get walled by Venusaur both resisting thunder and replacing rain with sunny day. Would've been interesting to see get tried, at least.
@@3eve0n You'd just use Crunch for Venusaur after the Sunny Day. Raikou will still get one Thunder in first and a resisted STAB Thunder is still 90 power.
I wasn't expecting a Beasts race challenge from you! This is great!
A 3-in-1 special? Holy moly jrose. You could've released these one by one and it would have probably bothered no one! Amazing.
He should've as it would have given him more views and money, which are vital for his job.
I couldn't help myself when he mentioned the inconsistency of his strategy in Cianwood, so here's a little math:
Entei was a two-shot with surf from Poliwrath, which was a four hit K.O. with headbutt from Entei, both moves are 100% accurate.
There are now two ways to lose this battle:
1. Get no crits in the first three attacks and also less than two flinches
2. Get only one crit in the first two attacks and no flinches.
If one gets two crits, Poliwrath has no time to take Entei out, similarly for a crit and a flinch or two flinches.
Bulbapedia states that headbutt flinches with a chance of 3/10, crits in gen II occur with a fixed unboosted rate of 17/256.
As crits and flinches can occur at the same time to the same effect, we can use to separate binomial distributions to find the probabilities of losing:
For case 1:
(1-17/256)^3 * [(1-3/10)^3 + 3 * (1-3/10)^2 * 3/10] ~= 64%,
and for case 2:
2 * (1-17/256) * 17/256 * (1-3/10)^2 ~= 6%.
Therefore the success rate of this strategy is about 30%, which even exceeds the bound of 25% that Jrose set for himself.
Even though it looks inconsistent it is not as bad as it seems (if I did my math right)
Thank you for reading my nonsense, if you made it to here :)
Love this! But from what I can see, you haven’t taken into account Poliwrath’s chance to crit as well? So it would be even less likely to get the win, but not by that much.
Bruh
The reason I stopped doing gen 2 solo challenges was that almost all of them bouled down to Return+Curse+Detect+Leftovers. It took the fun out of it. Considered banning curse, but then all I'd be doing is going back at slightly higher levels until a strat worked.
Leftovers isn’t available till Kanto anyway
@@aceclover758 neither is Red...
@@YMasterS Leftovers doesnt make the run boring if it’s only in Kanto, with thr Kanto gym leaders Being garbage
@aceclover758 yes it does, because the climax ends up being identical or nearly identical to the other 80 you've done.
Now we need Walking Wake, Gouging Fire and Raging Bolt solo runs😅😅
Regarding spinners, although these runs are typically done vanilla with the only modification being a GameShark code to edit the starter, you may want to consider modding the game further. For example, you could change the behavior of optional trainers to remove their "vision" range, causing them to only battle you when you interact with them. Just something to keep in mind if you plan on doing a lot of runs in Gen II and beyond.
Suicune for sure. It had a huge lead at Red. If it didn't have to leave twice the time would have easily been ahead of Raikou.
I thoroughly enjoyed this "side by side comparison" style of video. Keep up the great work!
Raikou's first battle against Chuck wasn't bad luck, he used Mind Reader turn 1.
I do like your count impression.
Good start to the year for jrose.
This was a brilliant video, the ongoing comparison really added to the experience. Would def love to see another with the birds!
I love this video! The dynamic of three Pokemon racing is great.
I would want to see how Mewtwo does just to get a bearing on how fast we should expect Pokemon to win in Gen 2 vs. Gen 1.
Mewtwo learns the three elemental punches and starts with STAB confusion. Damn, that'd be an absolute fucking massacre. Remember how Abra tore gen 2 a new one once it arrived in Goldenrod. Imagine that with over double the stats and being able to attack from the beginning.
@@youtube-kit9450 Curious enough, one of the very first obligatory trainers in Ruby and Sapphire walls Mewtwo something fierce. You are forced to rely on Struggle to get past that poochyena.
I don't remember if there is a similar trainer in gen 2, though. I think it isn't but...
@@lenlimbo I don't think you even meet a dark type until either a random trainer or a rocket guy in mahogany
@@youtube-kit9450 Then yeah, Mewtwo ain't getting walled.
@@lenlimbo hahaha no he won't. Gen 2 having the punches as TMs in goldenrod really invites an ass-whooping of colossal dimensions for those that learn them.
But also thanks for the chuckle of the mighty god of destruction being walled by a pupperoni lol
I was already subscribed but your Caterpie trio run and now this vid in particular, along with all the other content you put out, have been absolutely top tier. Mad good content
It's super cool to see this style of video given bunching up Pokemon is likely going to be needed. I also can't believe how they shook out. Seeing your rules put through though were very interesting :)
Was not expecting the count impression 🤣 way to go jrose! Great video as always. was very interesting to watch. I'd also be curious if you would consider doing this in hg/ss with the physical/special split and updated moves to see if, and how much of a difference it would make! Anyway keep up the great work jrose, always look forward to your videos ❤
Hey jrose, love this video format. Transitioning from gen 1 to gen 2 i appreciate the explanation for each type and pokemon; sprinkled in other facts.. Makes the videos digest better and follow along. Very nostalgic for this and all upcoming videos. Happy NYE 🎉
Lugia vs Ho-Oh would be interesting
ONE OF THE BEST VIDEOS SO FAR U HAVE MADE !!!
From someone who has probably watched all your videos.
That was entertaining. And well put together
I’m super happy I actually get to watch a Jrose video at around the same time it comes out!
I found your channel a few months back and have been watching so many of your videos. Majority of them are from 2-3 years ago though.
Love giving you support! Please keep these coming!
Holy shit. A fantastic idea! A Gen 2 solo run with a legendary trio, including Suicune?! Let’s go! Thank you Jrose, been very bored at home waiting for things to thaw out!
You don't owe us the Count, and I'm glad you've taken the right break from it. But hearing it again this time was a special moment. Appreciate you Jrose 🧛🧛♂🧛♀
I love how you walked into the Pokemart out of pure habit. 😂
Love a Jrose video to kick off the new year!
OMG it's Jrose! Your videos brighten up my day whenever you release. You are doing great.
Loved this video.... Even if it did go live at 2am! Loved seeing how similar the beasts were in time and level. Looking forward to the next one!
I did not seen that one coming.
Looking forward for more vids like this!
I absolutely want to see how the three legendary birds stack up against each other in gen 2 after seeing how interesting this was.
1.5 hour indoor training ride and I just found what’s going to keep me entertained. The legendary beast himself - JRose
Really really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work!
Oh hell yeah, thank you for dropping a video right when I need something fun to think about! I love how it feels like listening to a sports radio announcer in your videos. It is legitimately exciting!
Great compilation idea, although I'll just skip to the next step of rankings and say Articuno is the worst of all
32:15 Machamp actually has slightly (5 BST) higher Sp Def than Def
Very excited to see the Legendary birds in this format
I know you said you gave the rival the advantage pokemon, but I don't think we saw a single rival battle, did we?
Silver really letting the Rival Fival name down
Your transitions and the continued flow of storytelling were amazing. Keep up the great work!
This was a great one man! Editing is on point.
A cool idea for a video would be a no items OUTside of battle. So if you want to heal or use an elixer during the elite four, you have to find windows during the battle to do it. Also opens up X items for a run. Showcases a whole different set of strats.
Would it be, though? This means every battle you can just use a bunch of x items to maximize attack, heal and sweep. X items trivialize literally every battle that you don't get one-shot at.
Ah my favorite strat of spam items until I win, exceptional
@@youtube-kit9450 There's obviously limits to that, which would be interesting. Can you afford enough X items to use them on every battle? If so, what does that do to minimum battles and minimum level challenges? Can X items make up for starting EVERY elite 4 battle with partial health and pp?
I don't know the answer to those questions. Hence a good video.
@@TonioQuo7 How is doing one video of that worse in your mind than the 80th video of, "Not strong enough, time to grind"? This showcases the limits in a new way.
@@nathanrice7352 I never said it was worse? Just sounds like a boring idea, just as a ton of other things could be, item spam is just amongst those boring ideas lol
Nice showdown. I say it’s a tie within the margin of error. Some different strengths and weaknesses for each of them. I liked that the end needed some different strategy for each of them. Headbut, return and irontail as a combo doesn’t exactly showcase that they are elemental super dogs.
I like this style of videos with a more direct comparison between three Pokemon at once. Thanks alot!
I’m so glad you did the post game in this video too, so many people save it for a second video but I love it all in one. Keep up the great work! Thanks for all the entertainment! 🙌🏼👏🏼
The editing on this one was really good! Perfect bouncing between each one to really get a good comparison of each one along the journey. I say suicune is the best of the 3. Even though raikou had the best time it struggled the most because of its movepool for most of the game.
Looks like Jrose has been watching some Scott's Thoughts! 😉
I hope you guys do a collab at some point.
Fantastic video as usual! I hope we see more of these versus-style videos from you in the future. Scott's Thoughts has been doing them for a while and they're always fun to watch, but you and your videos have a totally different vibe to them.
I really enjoyed this style compared to individual runs. Obviously this was at least three to four times the effort and time to produce.
However, it was well done, fun to watch, and fun to have an immediate comparison of the runs. Well done, as always!
I would've been interested to see Suicine square up against the Azalea Town Rival with Razor Leaf, but this is still 10/10. Thanks!
Great video. I'm team Raikou so I'm happy to see it was ythe fastest and without prior knowledge of how a run should go. I'm rooting for Ho-oh in the next head to head challenge run.
Definitely love the content. Always excited to see more of these. Thanks for making amazing videos
Great video as always Jrose, & I was so happy to see the return of the Count!
The times and levels are so even that I think the winner goes to Entei. It didn't really have to completely change tactics to pull out a victory like the other two did. Being forced into Curse on a special attacker and Toxic stall on a Pokemon that otherwise had no real trouble up to that point says more about Entei's ease-of-use as it could just keep doing what it had always been doing.
Right. Especially the Curse strat is kind of something that any Pokémon could theoretically fall back on, so while that is the benefit of Gen II's wider selection of TMs, it shows Raikou's own poor selection in moves when it has to, at the final step, revert to a sort of "general" strategy like Curse buffing. With Suicune, at least its more defensive stats lends it to naturally having a decent ability to take a stall-lean to its movepool (see also Karen's Umbreon). Would say it goes between Entei and Suicune then.
OTOH, Raikou being the only beast that could really succeed with a curse strat is a legitimate advantage that should be reflected in the rankings -- the only question is if its enough to make up for its difficulties earlier in the game.
Against the Scyther with Suicune, I would have used bite on the flinch chance to break fury cutter's run.
Jrose much love my boy! I love your videos. Reminds me of childhood and i just enjoy your crazy one pokemon run challenges lol
Bro you are my favorite Pokemon creator bar none. Found you at the end of 2022 when my work days were 10-12 hours and you were doing a video like every day. Really helped me get thru that December
Why not try Sleep Talk? In GSC it can call Rest. All of the beasts are pretty tanky, so I feel like RestTalk or even MintRest sets might've helped in some inconsistent fights.
Great way to start off the new year! Honestly, with how close these runs were for Gold and Silver at the end, Raikou probably would still be the one to win since the final strategy against doesn’t need as many levels compared to Suicune or Entei.
Amazing video! Loved seeing all 3 in one go!
Really happy to hear the count again!
Another great video, Jrose.
Love the idea of banning hidden power. It's my least favorite part of any gen2 runs. Especially the suspiciously large number of streamers who say they randomly got HP ice.
Waiting for a Marowak solo run. Unique moves might help clear the early game.
15:45 the probability was a lot higher than 10%. The probability of 2 flinches in a row is 9% (0.3 * 0.3). But you had way more outcomes than that. You needed 2 flinches out of 3. The probability for at least 2 out of 3 is "P(2 flinches) + P(3flinches)" = "1 - P(0 flinches) - P(1 flinch)" = "1 - 0.343 - 0.441" = "0.216". So you had a probability of 21.6% for at least 2 flinches out of 3. As an alternativ way of beating that fight you could also have had a flinch and a crit which would further increase the probability of winning. So the 25% was pretty accurate.
Awesome loved this! Interesting to see how they all ended up!
Jrose losing to Bruno with both Zapdos and Raikou is poetic.
Man what were they thinking with that Entei backsprite 😂
It looks like an angry Gyarados who didn't manage to evolve entirely from Magikarp
Thanks for the video Josh, loving it.
Awesome, thank you for your hard work
And just when I made a rock cover of the theme of "Goldenrod City", Jrose came with this gem of a video to start the year. Gen 2 is one, if not, my favorite region. The nostalgia they give me is out of this world and the Pokemon there were always so cool, especially the legendary. Raikou will forever be my favorite legendary dog but they were all amazing.
Thoughts about this type of run:
How do the legendary birds fair in Johto and compared with the kanto runs, additionally how do the kanto starters fair in the roles of the johto starters.
always enjoy to hear a count impression!
Thank you Jrose. I’m actively growing a third eye to have each eye dedicated to watching one of your legendary beast run
Suicune was my guess from the beginning, between early Surf and having ice coverage. As predicted, it arrived at Red with a great time, but I think it got kinda shafted at the end by user error, having to take the extra trip. Raikou did surprisingly well given its lack of a proper STAB move, and Entei did surprisingly well, period.
To be fair, the most recent speedrun of Crystal at GDQ did use a Raikou for nearly all of the run, so that should figure in somewhat. :P
You can't consider user error to be a determining factor due to it not being a changing variable. You might point out this specific point as an error that slowed down Suicune, but you could then go back and point out errors from other parts of the runs that slowed down Raikou and Entei. Since they were all run by the same person, it was a fair race between the pokemon, and they all finished neck and neck.
@@SgtSupaman Being run by the same person doesn't mean that person can't make mistakes that adversely impact one run more than the others, as admitted by Jrose himself. Having to take a third trip to Red is a costly mistake. We can assume that time loss from minor movement mistakes probably average out to be similar in all three runs, so routing is the primary concern with regard to how they perform relative to one another. From what we saw in the video, there were no other singular mistakes that cost so much time in any of the runs.
@@dosbilliam Yeah, I was aware of Raikou being used in speedruns, but speedruns also use boosting items, so it's not directly comparable.
@@caliburnleaf9323 , except Jrose also outright admits that the Entei run was impacted by being the guinea pig for strategies. And I've seen other people suggest move mistakes that probably significantly slowed Raikou's run. There were probably even other mistakes impacting Suicune that weren't shown in the final editing of footage. All in all, it evens out. Not because the mistakes wind up the exact same, but because this isn't about finding an absolutely perfect run.
Suicune not being able to hack that last battle without having to go back for an item was just part of something that took more time because of the pokemon, not the user. The other two did not require that, so they took less time for that part of the run.
Without having watched the video yet: i think it is Suicune due to typing and coverage attacks advantages.
Would love to see the legendary birds done in a similar way! Keep up the great content man!
Go Raikou!! Awesome job
JRose11 and AJ here's to another certified banger! Can't wait to see what the Lugia versus Ho-Oh video will look like!
For the trainer spinning solution you might want to reach out to Scott to see if his solution would work for your runs. They adjust the programming to where the trainers always spin away from you. Technically a cheat bur game play wise it's so much better.
6 minutes and 56 seconds for Raikou. That was a quick run. 1:05:38
Another banger vid Jrose! I’d love to see you do this style for the Gen 1 birds
one of my favorite videos you've made!
Hey Jrose! How’s it going?
This video right now is a blessing…
New year new Jrose. Always a good time.
I definitely gotta see the Birds video now!! Can't wait for that
I’ve seen over half your videos, and I gotta say this is your best one in my opinion
You should have used bite instead of water gun for scyther.
It's the same effectice power, but you get a chance of flinching (and stopping the fury cutter momentum).
Now you gotta run Pokemon Violet with the three Paradox beasts
Nah, the newer games all suck
Yesssss love Johto videos ^^ Welcome back :)
My favorite legendary trio!