I had 3 x Redodo 12v 100ah batteries and it works well a few times in the first 3 months. After that, when I had issues they were not forthcoming in their reply. Response and attitude are bad for the past weeks. I am still hoping they will handle this well.
I do not quite understand on the comment that you made that on those batteries you can't take the cold so you're saying that if you are in a camper and it's 40 below outside that that battery could have some internal breakdowns because it's too cold to operate?
Amazing content. Like a mini-class in batteries. Your service to the boating world (...and the RV world, and the off-grid homestead world, and the .....) is appreciated.
the reason batteries like this have internal spacers is because the case is designed to fit in existing battery boxes and holders designed for lead/acid batteries. yes, they could make them smaller but then they would not be a standard size and would require custom mounts.
A good series. I think almost everyone will be looking at lithium replacements within the next 5 years, unless something else even more fantastic hits the market running. The reality though, is that while an E-car needs better power density going forward, a boat (besides dinghy) needs better power collection. I expect the power collection for boats will move slower than battery power density.
You should send them a note suggesting they contact me. I'll send them one myself. I like that the case can be opened easily but I don't like that it's metal. Though painted metal should last well enough as long as salt water is kept away from the batteries.
Nice video, I've been wondering what's in the 200ah etc ones ! Though I did think they BMS would balance the cells automatically ? I've got a home made one utilising 18650 lithium ions (not phosphate) and the BMS looks after the balancing almost perfectly
PS to my post below. Further to main Bank being AGM. I think it was the Bluetti Power Station that had the good info on charging level for their Lifepo4 Batteries, and I think I’ll be going with one of those with I think it is their 6 years Warranty as it will be rally handy backup with AC, DC, and USB power supply output, and there is a model with 3,000 watts AC Output, so for Charged up during the day, there an be nice stopgap power available during Night Watch for water heater, portable induction hob use, microwave, to reduce the drain from the Housebank with that keeping the Nav Lights, instruments, fans, refrigerator, freezer, and such going, and say with 1200 ah of AGM storage, it should easily keep within that 20% capacity limit to discharge of up to 240 ah of consumption from the House Bank before Recharging current goes back in ? Lead aksi ,oves going back to a state of charge of 100% asap. Which is where the high output engine alternator will fit in with two Duty Cycles per day for the inboard engine. It'll be interesting to se how the schedule works out, when put into practice anyway. Bob. 👍
That's a way to go. And I liked my bluetti. But with everything in one box one failure brings you down. Over the years I've grown to prefer separate components. But both approaches have merits.
Just like a engineer to do shady stuff indoors (and outdoors) with enough confidence lol. My clumsy arse would have to do this outside with a full face shield and welders gloves just to keep it from catching fire or getting a screwdriver through my hand.
at the end the brand and model number of the cells matter the most. Then you have to find the spec sheet to get more about the whole cell at all and run charging and discharging cycles with a battery tester like zke tech. Then you might be able to say more, but I bet these are cheap spot market cells nicely rewrapped in blue foil, nothing else and of cause no brand like EVE. Therefore they are expensive and you can judge them only after 10 years of use and based on the capacty then, after maybe 3000 cycles or 1 per day.
You can't balance cells that are connected in parallel unless you disconnect them from each other. Looks like this cheap battery and did not use class A cells and also a poor design to use smaller cells in parallel; like 100Ah when the battery is sold as 200Ah; but often done to save costs. For a good battery using parallel cells it is critical they be class A cells; where they would have very similar internal resistance.
Hi Guys. I’ve finally come across Confirmation that just like with our Mobile phones Which to significantly extend Lithium ion Battery Life, you only charge them to 85% Capacity Also applies to Lifepo4 Batteries as well. The information came from a Power Station manufacturer with Lifepo4 Batteries in it with the instruction on how to make the batteries last longer. That information needs to be matched with the loss of Charge Cycles due to Lifepo4 Batteries ding damaged if they are discharged to below 50 % of Capacity as well. So the usable Non Damaging Capacity of Lifepo4 Batteries is therefore 35%. The other factor we are short of knowledge on, is just how many years the the internal Chemistry of Lifepo4 is going to hold up if Treated right ? Will Prowse made an interesting comment one point, to the effect that you may as well just use Lifepo4 Batteries hard, as the internals will Fail before you get to the Cycles limit of the battery, which I thought was a rather interesting thing to say. For me, that means I’m sticking with AGM with Lead plates of 99.9% purity Lead batteries, with a House Bank large enough to carry a maximum discharge of 20% during the hours when no charge is getting back into the battery, so they never go below an 80% charge capacity level, so barring accidents like lightning strikes, the potential service life of those AGM should be in excess of 30 years. Worth a try anyway. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. ❤ Bob in Wales. 👍🏴⛵️🌟🌟🌟
I use my 1500ah of AGM that way and tend to get 15 years out of a set. I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding with your LiFePO4 limits. Understandable as almost no one seems to understand but that doesn't seem to stop people from acting authoritatively. And of course I might be wrong as well. But my working assumptions are. 1 the 85% number is derived from the case where no one has a charge controller that knows how to stop at 100% link the BankManager can. So it's just a "play it safe" tactic. But stopping charge early repeatedly causes memory ,(we have seen it) 2. The 50% number is a lead thing. I personally feel that the "best" practice is to use your Li from 100 to 20 percent max. Doing that I forecast that the next thing to kill my Li is operating temperature here in the tropics. But no one has cycled li in the field with proper charging to a natural death yet. That test will likely take 15 years.
@@Clarks-Adventure Well a big chunk of info did come to me from a Chinese Lifepo4 batteries Manufacfurer, and the 85% charge limit to greatly extend the Battery life for Mobile phones and Tablets, did have me Curious as to whether that extending the Service Life of Lifepo4 Batteries was the case as well, then there it was in a review of a Lifepo4 batteries Power Station. Cheapest way to check it out, will be to buy one, particularly as it will be a really useful item to complement the House Bank System, and I'll hopefully e able to make those batteries last a heck of a lot longer than I anticipate. Either way, it should easily earn its keep. I agree 💯 a out the superiority of having seperate Components to the system though. Best Wishes and Fair Winds to You All. Bob in Wales. 👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️
@@Clarks-Adventure According to that Chinese Lifepo4 Manufacturer, it is also a Lifepo4 thing as well that eats into the Recharging Cycles available, so service Life Shortening. I got just over 15 years out of my House Battery Bank of cheap Heavy Duty Agricultural Tractor Batteries on my Offgrid Smallholding, but an extreme cold spell not forecasted that dropped temperatures below minus 45 degrees C Cracked the cases. Just by not going below 50% Charge. one guy reviewing very high quality AGM's with 99.9% pure Lead plates, got over 20 years out of his and it was an accident that took them out. So worth a try. All the best. Bob. 👍
im looking forward to seeing graphene batteries, they say they going to make them here in Australia, supposably graphene holds more power and charges faster.
Every new tech is better in the reports. Seldom do they make the impact that Lifepo4 did. I find for off-grid applications where weight is t critical LiFePO4 is quite useful. Lead is like a computer from the 90s. You always wanted just a bit more out of it. LiFePO4 feels like a computer from 2010. Perfectly capable of doing the job.
It was nice to see this video a year after its initial release. I bought two of these for my sailboat after 2 Group AGMs failed while we were sailing off-shore.
Clark and Emily, you both provide such great information to the Sailing community. The battery teardown is also good information. There are so many battery teardown videos on RUclips already and I feel your time would be spent better on the things you both do already. By the way my Bank Manager is humming away and my batteries are happy and so am I.
Oh yeah I see what you mean that's one hot battery. I like the way she lays flat and shows off her power poles...oh my don't get me started... Whoooser..that one hot battery! 😅
I'm glad it wasn't terrible, I bought the 100amp version for my electric dinghy setup. Funny enough because of Peukert's Law, 4 of these batteries in series could potentially replace the 16 golfcart batteries I have running my electric sailboat. It might even be better, I'd just have to change my motor controller 🤔🤔🤔
Great Job with the review! The only thing I could think of would be to have some thermal imaging capability. You could look at the heat dissipation of the heat sinks on the BMS, and if there were any hot spots on the bus bars ( that may indicate a substandard solder / weld). Thanks!
Really good video Clark. I'm looking forward to the whole series, but since my batteries will be in an RV low temp protection is important. Hopefully some of the others will have low temp protection. Keep the good stuff coming.
Hi Clark. Thank you for your videos in general and this one which I have watched twice😊. I finally made the leap and replaced my service batteries with this exact model. I have aboard a quite recent Victron 30amp charger. It has a built in setting for liFePO4 battery which is programmed to charge bulk up to 14.4V and float at 13.5V. The person on-line who acts as technician/engineer from Redodo says I should charge (bulk) up to 14.6V and float at 13.8V . Should I manually modifie the settings in the Victron program or should I keep it as is by default ?? Would this default setting prolongue my Redodo battery life?? Thanks for any info. And thanks for your time.
So you have received two opinions and came to me not expecting me to confuse matters further with a third opinion? I really believe that you can't charge li to a voltage and get a long life. I have a device that charges your LiFePO4 to percent full. It's the only way to charge li properly outside a lab environment. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms If you want the deep answer read Conrad's article linked near the bottom.
built my own battery 7 yrs ago using Calb LFP cells and No BMS - Top and Bottom balanced cells - cycled battery 70% daily living in RV - Victron solar charger - Battery mostly stayed in balance - 4 ish month intervals would top balance with a R/C charger - Zero problems
Max charge voltage of Lithium Iron Phosphate is 4.20V so not dangerous at all to take them into the high region. You're just not getting any capacity past 3.60 vs the stress you're putting on the cells. Past 3.80 most people consider the stress put on the cells to be mildly hard in terms of degradation. I charged a 2.5Ah cell up 4.2V on accident once and the capacity I dishcarged from 4.2V to 3.6V.....was 28mAh. So thats why we don't care about using the top end.
I think you might have some confusion between li-ion and LiFePO4. LiFePO4 taken to that voltage will vent and fail very quickly. I accidently did that. Expensive
14.6 V total for a 4S battery is 3.65 V per cell. That is not overcharged. Overcharged is getting into the 4.2 V per cell LiFePO4 is capable of. Charging a 200 AH battery at only 0.02 C is as 'harmful' as charging to 3.65 V (mouse nuts...IE not very).
Anyone wanting to learn more on the subject of Lifepo4 charging and overcharging would do well to start their research with my friend Conrad's paper at the bottom of this page. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
I spent so so much time researching lithium batteries cost/value and ultimately took the chance on Redodo. Since that purchase back in January, these batteries are climbing in price. I respect your own hands-on research and am pleased that I went with them.
HI! How are you feeling with the redodo battery so far? There are many negative reviews of the cheap lifepo4s, I would also like to get one but I'm doubtful. Thank you!
"I'm sexy & I know it" gif @ 7:15 would have been funny. Clarke reminds me of a young, more trusting/intelligent Rolf Harris (aussie). Have you had covid vaccine? It's going around Au again. Nice graph work @20:50 Em, be nice if my retirement shares looked like that
In your spreadsheet your cost value on the 100 ah was ok, yet it was cheaper per W/H...????? As far as thermal control, its much more likely to damage the battery cold wx charging than overtemp up North, Not DR...lol Keep up the good work!
Thanks , There is more to value than the ah rating. I didn't like the holes in the case. I'm reviewing a battery called FEENCE this week. If it stands up to claims it might be the very best. It has cold protection and is really cheap. Wait for that video before buying anything.
Interesting video. A curiosity question. You appear to be using a Klein CL220 meter during this video. You were measuring DC amperage with the clamp on feature. Didn't know that you could read DC amperage other than through a series connection.
This is when you run into the bait and switch scenario! Marketing common sense to manipulate the masses. For free you give reviewer's your battery with the best stuff they can put inside it? Soon after they start by calling the Chinese supplier and they change inner workings and order on the cheap. For us consumers they'll increase the price whilst ordering cheaper goods they sell you. Now people have issues and come to find out the company uses different goods on their product compared to review. Folks, almost everyone uses one of 3 major Chinese supplier's and have outside labeling changed. You can also make a big order on the cheap and have your name placed all over them! So just don't be a fool. This goes for just about everything in today's marketplace. Sorry, but all true... My family has been in marketing since 1970s, have watched and learned how easily humanity can be deceived... Hurts huh!
Would be good if you can go through a tutorial on a 100ah battery and a BMS that has 50amp continuous use etc as I’ve just bought a 400ah battery and it says it’s got a 100amp continuous use BMS so not sure it will power my 3000w inverter as the max amp requirement is 230amps
No you shouldn't try to draw more than 100ah from your battery. It will power it fine, you just can't draw more than about 10 amps 120v through it without your BMS getting hot and shutting down.
I've got 4 12 200ah in series 48v and they them in part of the house I don't heat so temperatures at times can't get down to -0° to -5 at times so I just cover the with at eclectic blanket 100 watts on high but have it set to level 4 so about 40 watts and that keeps them at +15° celsius, I've not gotten around to building an insulated box yet but I'm sure 10 watts would keep them warm.
Case standard case built for many different companies and perhaps different cell sizes, also foam Installation and help with shock if it should get dropped so that's good.
That process starts for us when a battery manufacturer contacts us with the offer of a review battery. For them it often starts from someone like you suggesting our channel to them. Balls in your court
the batteries i make now for high end ebikes with dc currents of up to 850 amps continuous ,use 3m Novac dilectric fluid ,and immersion cooling,cells now never go higher than a few degrees under full load ,.and can charge the battery at 80 amps continuous,and have advantage of never being able to catch fire
Isn't one of the functions of a decent BMS cell balancing? Having got the cells in balance doesn't mean they will stay in balance, that would require all the cells to have identical characteristics and that just doesn't happen. Buy a battery with a proper BMS with cell balancing in the first place so you don't have to destroy the case to get to the individual cell connections.
BMSs tend to use small passive balancers. They take forever to balance the cells and to function you would need to hold the battery at a high float voltage for a long time. That isn't something you want to do daily. If you keep the battery at reasonable voltages it's unlikely you would even notice a bit of mis-balance.
Your videos are such a valuable wealth of knowledge, I appreciate the way you explain the theory and application on most systems you have covered. You make the DIY of what can seem to someone unfamiliar with these systems, like me, easily achievable! I look forward to your videos! Thank You!
Sure, though trolling motors don't produce much power. You could do it cheaply with a boost converter. Next Saturday's video will be all about boost converters. Though for a different application.
If you liked this you might like the others in the series(check the leaderboard in the description). Even if you aren't interested in buying the other offerings I hope that I added a bit of general battery knowledge to each.
A few items I've been adding to my list that you might want to include on your spreadsheet: Warranty Duration Minimum Cycles Maximum Continuous Charging Current Self-Heating Y/N Low Temp Shutoff Y/N Bluetooth While your casual style is obviously popular, a bit more of an organizational touch might help with review-type content. Just some graphics on what you'll be covering, tests, expected results, observed results, stuff like that. Keep it simple and minimal - the data is in the spreadsheet - just let us know what you'll be up to and what you found.
Wow, excellent review!! I’ve been learning how to review power stations for my channel. You’re so knowledgeable, thank you for sharing your expertise! (I also love the leaderboard idea- I hate that I gave my first batteries such glowing reviews!)
You individual cell resistance measurement does not match the high current volt sag. Some quick calculations @ 200amps = 0.003ohms, this is more like I would expect. The individual cells around 0.015ohms seamed to high. Great your tarting down the battery and giving us some numbers.
@@Clarks-Adventure Sure from at the 30 minute point. At 124A and 12.94V At 204A and 12.61V Delta V 12.94V - 12.61V = 0.33V Delta I 204A - 124A = 80A 0.33V / 80A = 0.00413ohms ( looked harder at you numbers this time ) This is closer to what I expected. At 0.015 *4 = 0.06ohms, 200A would expect a 0.06 * 200 = 12V drop, not what you got. You may be adding some of your lead resistance in your delta V measurement Try attaching the meter to your battery, leaving it there for resistor on/off measurement , then add the resistor to some other place on the battery contact to get your delta V. Also you can use your 5A power supply in to generate delta I measuring delta V. Myself I have an Agilent 4338B Low ohm meter which uses AC not caring about battery voltage. It can measure to better than 1uohm. Method is everything for these type of measurements ( holding you finger in the right direction), good luck with future measurements, I hope this helps.
I can't believe that it took 24 hours for someone to notice that You are so right. I was a fool I kicked myself all during editing. It's why we don't have gold wedding rings.
It's a hard question to answer. I learned so much while developing the BankManager. You just can't charge li to a voltage. If you charge really hard 14.6 can be ok but if you charge with solar you likely shouldn't get near that. Many charge to 13.8. Even that voltage can overcharge your Li at low current.
The best I have found currently is a tossup between timeusb's 220ah and redodo 230ah (they are the same battery getting around 227ah of time) Both have serviceable steel casing that you can unscrew for under $600USD. Find a better deal, I dare you. Holy shit someone who understands power like I do!!! Finally! It's like people buy things and slap them together and don't think about any of it. They end up catching $250,000 RVs on fire and scratch their heads wondering what went wrong but in the next RV they make the same mistakes! Instant subscribe from me!
After a fair bit of research, I selected a pair of 100 A/H batteries from this company. I've had them only a couple of weeks, but so far they work really well as a replacement for the AGMs I had in my small home emergency backup. Thanks for the review and deep dive into the insides!! 👍
Well torn down. I do greatly wonder about cycle life and how as consumers we can ascertain this as truth? Cycle life/ cost per watt hour cycle rather than just cost per watt hour capacity. Compactness will help them sell more as well. Please make cells with no unnecessary spacers! Very much considering limiting my cells to 100amp hour to ovoid internal parallels.
I think internal parallels are fine. It's external parallels that get you in trouble. Keeping as much as possible under one BMS. As far as cycle life numbers. I think I just won't mention them for Chinese batteries. That's just the kind of untestable stat they lie about.
@@Clarks-Adventure Thanks for your opinion on parallels. Much of my decision to build my own and use my own bms or buy prepared cells. Likely have to assume the lower cycle numbers till time proves them.
Can you build a bank manager that will let me connect lifepo4 to lead acid at 24 volts? Id also like a way of connecting my 24 volt nissan leaf powerwall to lifepo4 at 24 volts. I have nissan leaf modules and lead acid batteries but im buying lifepo4 this weekend. Any help with this would be awesome.
Bankanager works 12, 24, 36, and 48v. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms But it's Lifepo4 I'm not sure what chemistry leaf packs but I bet they are different.
@@Clarks-Adventure leaf packs are nmc. They have 2s2p per module. I have 24 modules in a 24 volt configuration so they are actually something like 2s4p-4s3p-2p. I know that's confusing it it's how it is lol. Yes I'd like to run the lifepo4- nmc- lead acid all together. Wish there was something I could but to make them all work together since ive invested so much in so many different chemistry batteries
You should also include AGM lead, according too everything you have said, I have also researched There is no replacement for lead it has properties that, lithium does not have, my deep cycle 8D and 4D have started my 28 hp M2003 Volvo, I also had too start it by manual crank once, Life savor with a Hurricane 20 hours away. Yes, purchased a dedicated starter battery as soon as I got back, but never had too use it after that. Funny how that works. I have a 8D 4D AGM’s and standard Start car battery, think it is a die hard, was thinking about replacing the 8D with lithium iron, figure the weight savings and power increase would let me run a new 3000 watt inverter. Have a 500 watt one now , but refitting and space is always a premium the wife Loves her hot showers I have both Electric AC or engine coolant water heater, works great, with the new Water Maker, still have not decided on that also, with our 110 gallons of fresh water would not have too fill both tanks, rather use them as ballast on different tacks pump 50 gallons to either side, make water at the destination on hook. Also less weight faster boat. She is already very fast as a Beneteau 350 89, points also very high, winged shoal keel cast iron. Always wanted too sail the Chesapeake and beyond with her. Went all the way too Bangor Maine with her. So doing the work in planning her refit, Love your series, Troubled about your cough, my wife has that since Covid, slow too get better. If you both are ever up in Long Island reach out. Greenport on the north fork is where StarLight is Where in Smithtown, center North Shore. Family goes back to 1631 here.
Most BMSs are set to shut down at 3.65v which is considered completely safe by extensive literature and tests. So I don’t understand why the statement that charging up to BMS limit is wrong. Of course using the battery at 100% DoD reduces the number of cycles but if you want to maximize the number of cycles you should keep it at around 80% DoD. BMS are not a nuclear option. These settings are easily configurable by the manufacturer. Why would they built a device that would reduce the battery lifespan or create a hazard risk? It doesn’t make sense from a commercial point of view.
I suggest you read Conrad's article linked to the bottom of this. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms BMSs are for keeping cells from venting. Not for charging. Charging Li properly is difficult and the BankManager is the only device that does it properly. It means the difference between 6 years of life and more than double that.
@@Clarks-Adventure I read it few times but there’s nothing written in there that states one shouldn’t charge to 100% BMS SoC. The text argues against charging to voltage only which is a different claim. The BMS not only accounts for voltage but also other factors. So it still I don’t see an argument as to why someone should not charge until the BMS shuts off. Can you please elaborate and be more specific?
Well first off the BMS only monitors cell voltage and temperature. I'm not here to convince you. Do the research, it's out there. There are research papers on cell life as effected by charging over 100 percent Also you might find it interesting to research exactly how LiFePO4 is charged and cycled for life cycle testing. Did you follow the links Conrad suggests? If you want the answers they are out there but so are a lot of claims that say charging Li like lead is OK.
I did a video on how to balance a new battery that was out of balance in a existing bank. Took several weeks though. Internal balancing is very low current and very slow and typically only balances during charging.
Wow, that was a great video! Thank you for the teardown. Have you ever considered building a battery from scratch? From sourcing cells/BMSs to putting it all together?
Sure I've done that. We have a 50amphour battery I built in a pelican case we use a lot for portable needs. We also use it with an electric motor on Emily's boat. In the video when I talk about destroying cells. Well, that was the first attempt at that battery.
I can't believe that it took 24 hours for someone to notice that. You are the second guy You are so right. I was a fool I kicked myself all during editing. It's why we don't have gold wedding rings.
Charging Lifepo4 correctly in an active system is a complex procedure and really requires something like the BankManager. Charging it stand alone correctly can be done by controlling the voltage and monitoring the current. Research "LiFePO4 and taper current" Charging with a "Victron" type charger will charge the battery but expect a greatly reduced lifespan. If your bank is small it might be cost effective to simply charge them this way and buy new batteries in a few years.
Thanks for this.. all videos help make choices.. my issue i have a diy set up in shed at moment my EPEEVER 30 amp charge controller is at a 14.6 i believe highest charge rate Set to the lead acid batteries i have at moment ..i can change charge controller to lithium battery will that be automatically be lower charge to go into the lithium to profect it as you state DONT GO UP TO 14.6 with lithium ? As im a semi novice leaning ... can you explain easy terms what im meant to be doing for the best .. im hoping to get 200ah lithium ..cheers
Sad to say there is no safe way to charge li to a voltage. Li is just too fragile and there are no Li chargers that have a Li setting that won't abuse your new li batteries. I developed something called the BankManager that charges li right. You get to keep your lead batteries, and you get to keep your old charge controllers. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
Clark -- I'm guessing that it's not as sunny where you are with Emily gone, but I'm still hopeful that you can find energy to answer these 2 (neophyte) questions about batteries: #1. UL CERTIFIED. Some batteries state this, others don't, while still other brands make it unclear whether the UL listing is for the whole battery system or just key specific parts. For example, the Redodo appears to be UL tested for the "cell" and "BMS" but because they list specific parts it makes me suspicious that the whole battery unit is not certified (yes, I'm a suspicious SOB). Does UL listing of specific parts rather than UL listing on the whole unit matter to you? What does an engineer look for regarding certification/testing? #2. SERVER RACK BATTERY. As I'm sure you know, some people are successfully using server rack batteries in RVs. Price points seem attractive especially for 48 volt, I assume due to high manufacturing volume. One brand that has good $/watt and supposedly robust for 48 volt is SOK (for example, "SOK 48V 100Ah Server Rack Battery - User Serviceable Rack Battery" with a 10 year warranty distributed by CurrentConnected com). I've also seen 12 volt, though at a higher $/watt (G4-LifePower4 Lithium Battery 12V 400AH Server Rack Battery). Note, I'll ask you about 12v vs 48v on a different video of yours. What are your initial general thoughts for using server rack batteries on boats? Might you consider testing a server rack battery for your Leaderboard? As always, thank you for all that you do for me and others!! You're inspiring me and others to help our communities, now I just gotta figure out what do I know that's worth sharing. .....Since I don't know much, in the meantime I'll just share my brute force. Thanks! Mike
1 I really don't know much about UL. It's an insurance thing and for the US 2 I haven't looked deep but the server rack batteries I've seen are in steel cases. Great for computer rooms but saltwater boats? 12 or 24 for boats where you need to run DC devices. 48 for houses where it all goes through the inverter anyway.
The great part about lithium is that it bonds to other minerals. In this case it binds to iron, but the latest batteries being developed by Tesla bond to silicon, basically sand, so they won’t need cobalt to make the cells, and the size and weight of the battery will be 2/3 less, but the capacity will be 2/3 higher. This is music to the ears of boaters, RVers, and electronics enthusiasts, I’m waiting with baited breath because Tesla always does their design work in open source, so that it can be reproduced by others.
I started the process of putting a link to it in our Amazon store. Check in a day or so. Should be in the electrical tools or battery (or both) sections
9:32 I presume those terminal posts are well sealed. So could be the USB charge points, by sealing around the entry points' grommet. You would need to inspect.
Great review Clark and Emily, probably and active ballencer like a neeey might be the go, Andy from Offgrid garage has played around with them. Oh and that table😀
I recognise none of the brands on your leaderboard. One of the things I suspect is that you can go to one of these Chinese companies and order some of them. If your order is sufficiently large, you will paint them and package them with your livery. I can do the same, get the same products, and potentially sell them for more, or less, than you. I could have good value product, yours might be good but, since you charge more, not such good value. It's possible than none of the brands you have tested so fair are available outside the US.
They are all available. Just follow the link on the leaderboard. It's possible some are temporarily sold out of course. Yes the company that makes the Elefast has been making batteries for resale under others brands for years.
@@Clarks-Adventure Most of them are not in stock. So far as I can see, none ships to Australia. Their not being sold in Australia is an excellent explanation of why I haven't heard of them. We do have VoltX, VoltaX (yes, different brands), Digi Marker, Mobi.
How my reviews start is often with someone like you suggesting an Emily and Clark review to the manufacturer they then contact me with an offer for sending a battery. We have a lot of viewers, and BankManager buyers, in Australia and New Zealand. I'd review a battery you guys can get even if it's not available in the US. Also, I'm looking for a distributor down under so BankManagers aren't so crazy expensive for you guys. A New Zealand guy just told me how much he is spending on customs (more than the device cost), crazy. Know anyone?
I understand the reasons for the over sized case but I really wish that foam wasn't there. I want to stuff one of these batteries in a Milwaukee packout and make my own battery powered generator but it's 1.5" too long. Great video.
I was hoping to use a battery with a 150a bms minimum. Might take it out of the case and spray foam it in place 😬 I will provide plenty of ventilation.
Two in parallel would give you 200a of supply current. Also I have a battery box coming with an inverter and charge controllers. Basically a power station that you supply the battery for. Less than $200usd
I have a 200ah Redodo on my boat running a 10 cu. ft. refrigerator. I let it run to see when the Renology 3000 watt would shut off and at what voltage it did. When I checked on it the inverter was shut down . I checked the voltage on the battery and it was at 3.2 volts. I hooked the 20 amp charger to it and it would not take a charge. got the red flashing light on the charger. Any Idea's.
Your battery turned itself off on defence. Just give it power but not from a "smart" charger. Just hook it in parallel with another 12v (could be lead, could be small) battery and it will wake back up.
Really shouldn't have the current running through your voltage measurement leads but if you do it the same way with all the cells then you can see if theres a deviation between the cells. So in this case it works to make sure they are matched
Yes. Take a look at the leader board linked to in our description. There is a watt per cubic inch column. I have new batteries coming but as of now this mini is by far the most power dense.
Interested in this battery? Use code EMILYANDCLARK for an extra 4% OFF: shrsl.com/461b3
I had 3 x Redodo 12v 100ah batteries and it works well a few times in the first 3 months. After that, when I had issues they were not forthcoming in their reply. Response and attitude are bad for the past weeks. I am still hoping they will handle this well.
Thanks for sharing your experience
I do not quite understand on the comment that you made that on those batteries you can't take the cold so you're saying that if you are in a camper and it's 40 below outside that that battery could have some internal breakdowns because it's too cold to operate?
As I answered in your other comment. LiFePO4 cells are damaged if charged while frozen
Amazing content. Like a mini-class in batteries. Your service to the boating world (...and the RV world, and the off-grid homestead world, and the .....) is appreciated.
Thank you
the reason batteries like this have internal spacers is because the case is designed to fit in existing battery boxes and holders designed for lead/acid batteries. yes, they could make them smaller but then they would not be a standard size and would require custom mounts.
You're absolutely right. This battery size is a 4D. Common in tractors and other heavy duty applications.
A good series. I think almost everyone will be looking at lithium replacements within the next 5 years, unless something else even more fantastic hits the market running. The reality though, is that while an E-car needs better power density going forward, a boat (besides dinghy) needs better power collection. I expect the power collection for boats will move slower than battery power density.
Great in-depth video and yes I'm sure we'd love to see a cell balancing video.
'The air came right from China' So I'm not the only one thinking this while opening packages haha.
Would you please do a tear down on the TimeUSB 220ah 12.8v battery. Price @ $550 , it is about 20cents /wh !!
You should send them a note suggesting they contact me. I'll send them one myself.
I like that the case can be opened easily but I don't like that it's metal. Though painted metal should last well enough as long as salt water is kept away from the batteries.
Nice video, I've been wondering what's in the 200ah etc ones !
Though I did think they BMS would balance the cells automatically ? I've got a home made one utilising 18650 lithium ions (not phosphate) and the BMS looks after the balancing almost perfectly
RUclips kanalı başarılar dilerim efendim beğeni bıraktım RUclips kanalı ❤
PS to my post below. Further to main Bank being AGM. I think it was the Bluetti Power Station that had the good info on charging level for their Lifepo4 Batteries, and I think I’ll be going with one of those with I think it is their 6 years Warranty as it will be rally handy backup with AC, DC, and USB power supply output, and there is a model with 3,000 watts AC Output, so for Charged up during the day, there an be nice stopgap power available during Night Watch for water heater, portable induction hob use, microwave, to reduce the drain from the Housebank with that keeping the Nav Lights, instruments, fans, refrigerator, freezer, and such going, and say with 1200 ah of AGM storage, it should easily keep within that 20% capacity limit to discharge of up to 240 ah of consumption from the House Bank before Recharging current goes back in ? Lead aksi ,oves going back to a state of charge of 100% asap. Which is where the high output engine alternator will fit in with two Duty Cycles per day for the inboard engine. It'll be interesting to se how the schedule works out, when put into practice anyway. Bob. 👍
That's a way to go. And I liked my bluetti.
But with everything in one box one failure brings you down. Over the years I've grown to prefer separate components.
But both approaches have merits.
There's me thinking varnished fine timber and a lithium battery violence....
Just like a engineer to do shady stuff indoors (and outdoors) with enough confidence lol. My clumsy arse would have to do this outside with a full face shield and welders gloves just to keep it from catching fire or getting a screwdriver through my hand.
at the end the brand and model number of the cells matter the most. Then you have to find the spec sheet to get more about the whole cell at all and run charging and discharging cycles with a battery tester like zke tech.
Then you might be able to say more, but I bet these are cheap spot market cells nicely rewrapped in blue foil, nothing else and of cause no brand like EVE.
Therefore they are expensive and you can judge them only after 10 years of use and based on the capacty then, after maybe 3000 cycles or 1 per day.
You can't balance cells that are connected in parallel unless you disconnect them from each other. Looks like this cheap battery and did not use class A cells and also a poor design to use smaller cells in parallel; like 100Ah when the battery is sold as 200Ah; but often done to save costs.
For a good battery using parallel cells it is critical they be class A cells; where they would have very similar internal resistance.
Hi Guys. I’ve finally come across Confirmation that just like with our Mobile phones Which to significantly extend Lithium ion Battery Life, you only charge them to 85% Capacity Also applies to Lifepo4 Batteries as well. The information came from a Power Station manufacturer with Lifepo4 Batteries in it with the instruction on how to make the batteries last longer. That information needs to be matched with the loss of Charge Cycles due to Lifepo4 Batteries ding damaged if they are discharged to below 50 % of Capacity as well. So the usable Non Damaging Capacity of Lifepo4 Batteries is therefore 35%. The other factor we are short of knowledge on, is just how many years the the internal Chemistry of Lifepo4 is going to hold up if Treated right ? Will Prowse made an interesting comment one point, to the effect that you may as well just use Lifepo4 Batteries hard, as the internals will Fail before you get to the Cycles limit of the battery, which I thought was a rather interesting thing to say. For me, that means I’m sticking with AGM with Lead plates of 99.9% purity Lead batteries, with a House Bank large enough to carry a maximum discharge of 20% during the hours when no charge is getting back into the battery, so they never go below an 80% charge capacity level, so barring accidents like lightning strikes, the potential service life of those AGM should be in excess of 30 years. Worth a try anyway. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. ❤ Bob in Wales. 👍🏴⛵️🌟🌟🌟
I use my 1500ah of AGM that way and tend to get 15 years out of a set.
I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding with your LiFePO4 limits. Understandable as almost no one seems to understand but that doesn't seem to stop people from acting authoritatively.
And of course I might be wrong as well.
But my working assumptions are.
1 the 85% number is derived from the case where no one has a charge controller that knows how to stop at 100% link the BankManager can. So it's just a "play it safe" tactic. But stopping charge early repeatedly causes memory ,(we have seen it)
2. The 50% number is a lead thing.
I personally feel that the "best" practice is to use your Li from 100 to 20 percent max.
Doing that I forecast that the next thing to kill my Li is operating temperature here in the tropics.
But no one has cycled li in the field with proper charging to a natural death yet. That test will likely take 15 years.
@@Clarks-Adventure Well a big chunk of info did come to me from a Chinese Lifepo4 batteries Manufacfurer, and the 85% charge limit to greatly extend the Battery life for Mobile phones and Tablets, did have me Curious as to whether that extending the Service Life of Lifepo4 Batteries was the case as well, then there it was in a review of a Lifepo4 batteries Power Station. Cheapest way to check it out, will be to buy one, particularly as it will be a really useful item to complement the House Bank System, and I'll hopefully e able to make those batteries last a heck of a lot longer than I anticipate. Either way, it should easily earn its keep. I agree 💯 a out the superiority of having seperate Components to the system though. Best Wishes and Fair Winds to You All. Bob in Wales. 👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️
@@Clarks-Adventure According to that Chinese Lifepo4 Manufacturer, it is also a Lifepo4 thing as well that eats into the Recharging Cycles available, so service Life Shortening. I got just over 15 years out of my House Battery Bank of cheap Heavy Duty Agricultural Tractor Batteries on my Offgrid Smallholding, but an extreme cold spell not forecasted that dropped temperatures below minus 45 degrees C Cracked the cases. Just by not going below 50% Charge. one guy reviewing very high quality AGM's with 99.9% pure Lead plates, got over 20 years out of his and it was an accident that took them out. So worth a try. All the best. Bob. 👍
You said that your fingers might have touched the probe tips, my Fluke will show my heart beats when in R mode.
im looking forward to seeing graphene batteries, they say they going to make them here in Australia, supposably graphene holds more power and charges faster.
Every new tech is better in the reports. Seldom do they make the impact that Lifepo4 did.
I find for off-grid applications where weight is t critical LiFePO4 is quite useful.
Lead is like a computer from the 90s. You always wanted just a bit more out of it.
LiFePO4 feels like a computer from 2010. Perfectly capable of doing the job.
It was nice to see this video a year after its initial release. I bought two of these for my sailboat after 2 Group AGMs failed while we were sailing off-shore.
Clark and Emily, you both provide such great information to the Sailing community. The battery teardown is also good information. There are so many battery teardown videos on RUclips already and I feel your time would be spent better on the things you both do already.
By the way my Bank Manager is humming away and my batteries are happy and so am I.
Great
You cough because you just breath in Chinese air..!!? But you already released it in the boat.
"that air came straight from China"... "*cough cough* I have covid again"
Oh yeah I see what you mean that's one hot battery. I like the way she lays flat and shows off her power poles...oh my don't get me started... Whoooser..that one hot battery! 😅
It's very good, congratulations my friend.
Excellent beginning if you missed something I would not know. I now know more about lithium batteries than I did before the video. Thanks
I'm glad it wasn't terrible, I bought the 100amp version for my electric dinghy setup. Funny enough because of Peukert's Law, 4 of these batteries in series could potentially replace the 16 golfcart batteries I have running my electric sailboat. It might even be better, I'd just have to change my motor controller 🤔🤔🤔
Great Job with the review! The only thing I could think of would be to have some thermal imaging capability. You could look at the heat dissipation of the heat sinks on the BMS, and if there were any hot spots on the bus bars ( that may indicate a substandard solder / weld). Thanks!
What a great excuse to buy a fun toy!
@@Clarks-Adventure You're Welcome!
Really good video Clark. I'm looking forward to the whole series, but since my batteries will be in an RV low temp protection is important. Hopefully some of the others will have low temp protection. Keep the good stuff coming.
Yes I have some coming with that feature
Hi Clark. Thank you for your videos in general and this one which I have watched twice😊. I finally made the leap and replaced my service batteries with this exact model. I have aboard a quite recent Victron 30amp charger. It has a built in setting for liFePO4 battery which is programmed to charge bulk up to 14.4V and float at 13.5V. The person on-line who acts as technician/engineer from Redodo says I should charge (bulk) up to 14.6V and float at 13.8V . Should I manually modifie the settings in the Victron program or should I keep it as is by default ?? Would this default setting prolongue my Redodo battery life??
Thanks for any info. And thanks for your time.
So you have received two opinions and came to me not expecting me to confuse matters further with a third opinion?
I really believe that you can't charge li to a voltage and get a long life. I have a device that charges your LiFePO4 to percent full. It's the only way to charge li properly outside a lab environment.
www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
If you want the deep answer read Conrad's article linked near the bottom.
built my own battery 7 yrs ago using Calb LFP cells and No BMS - Top and Bottom balanced cells - cycled battery 70% daily living in RV - Victron solar charger -
Battery mostly stayed in balance - 4 ish month intervals would top balance with a R/C charger - Zero problems
Good to know
Max charge voltage of Lithium Iron Phosphate is 4.20V so not dangerous at all to take them into the high region. You're just not getting any capacity past 3.60 vs the stress you're putting on the cells. Past 3.80 most people consider the stress put on the cells to be mildly hard in terms of degradation. I charged a 2.5Ah cell up 4.2V on accident once and the capacity I dishcarged from 4.2V to 3.6V.....was 28mAh. So thats why we don't care about using the top end.
I think you might have some confusion between li-ion and LiFePO4.
LiFePO4 taken to that voltage will vent and fail very quickly. I accidently did that. Expensive
Besides Will Prowse you’re the only one I’ve seen year open battery
This does not have a low temp protection sensor. Dont buy if you live in the north.
14.6 V total for a 4S battery is 3.65 V per cell. That is not overcharged. Overcharged is getting into the 4.2 V per cell LiFePO4 is capable of. Charging a 200 AH battery at only 0.02 C is as 'harmful' as charging to 3.65 V (mouse nuts...IE not very).
Anyone wanting to learn more on the subject of Lifepo4 charging and overcharging would do well to start their research with my friend Conrad's paper at the bottom of this page.
www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
THANK YOU FOR DECRYPTING WHAT MIGHT BE A RIPOFF FROM CHINA 😂
next battery tear down use the freezing juice on the sealant first.
Disassembling one of these topless on the railings of a boat, probably wasn't what they had in mind, but meh...you did it!
Edit: I added the topless.
I spent so so much time researching lithium batteries cost/value and ultimately took the chance on Redodo. Since that purchase back in January, these batteries are climbing in price. I respect your own hands-on research and am pleased that I went with them.
Thanks
HI! How are you feeling with the redodo battery so far? There are many negative reviews of the cheap lifepo4s, I would also like to get one but I'm doubtful. Thank you!
"I'm sexy & I know it" gif @ 7:15 would have been funny. Clarke reminds me of a young, more trusting/intelligent Rolf Harris (aussie). Have you had covid vaccine? It's going around Au again. Nice graph work @20:50 Em, be nice if my retirement shares looked like that
Thank you Lana,
Yes we had two courses from two different companies and each had COVID twice now.
Noore airplanes for me! -Clark
Very good information guys, hope at some point you could do one on building you own battery. i.e. from the cells up.
Yes I think that's a good idea
In your spreadsheet your cost value on the 100 ah was ok, yet it was cheaper per W/H...?????
As far as thermal control, its much more likely to damage the battery cold wx charging than overtemp up North, Not DR...lol
Keep up the good work!
Thanks ,
There is more to value than the ah rating. I didn't like the holes in the case.
I'm reviewing a battery called FEENCE this week. If it stands up to claims it might be the very best. It has cold protection and is really cheap.
Wait for that video before buying anything.
Interesting video. A curiosity question. You appear to be using a Klein CL220 meter during this video. You were measuring DC amperage with the clamp on feature. Didn't know that you could read DC amperage other than through a series connection.
Yes you can with this meter. It's in our Amazon store if you want to know the model number.
ruclips.net/video/W8VLETyguoE/видео.html
This is when you run into the bait and switch scenario! Marketing common sense to manipulate the masses. For free you give reviewer's your battery with the best stuff they can put inside it? Soon after they start by calling the Chinese supplier and they change inner workings and order on the cheap. For us consumers they'll increase the price whilst ordering cheaper goods they sell you. Now people have issues and come to find out the company uses different goods on their product compared to review. Folks, almost everyone uses one of 3 major Chinese supplier's and have outside labeling changed. You can also make a big order on the cheap and have your name placed all over them! So just don't be a fool. This goes for just about everything in today's marketplace. Sorry, but all true... My family has been in marketing since 1970s, have watched and learned how easily humanity can be deceived... Hurts huh!
Well maybe you should only buy the Elefast transparent. That way you can see what you are buying
Would be good if you can go through a tutorial on a 100ah battery and a BMS that has 50amp continuous use etc as I’ve just bought a 400ah battery and it says it’s got a 100amp continuous use BMS so not sure it will power my 3000w inverter as the max amp requirement is 230amps
No you shouldn't try to draw more than 100ah from your battery.
It will power it fine, you just can't draw more than about 10 amps 120v through it without your BMS getting hot and shutting down.
I've got 4 12 200ah in series 48v and they them in part of the house I don't heat so temperatures at times can't get down to -0° to -5 at times so I just cover the with at eclectic blanket 100 watts on high but have it set to level 4 so about 40 watts and that keeps them at +15° celsius, I've not gotten around to building an insulated box yet but I'm sure 10 watts would keep them warm.
Case standard case built for many different companies and perhaps different cell sizes, also foam Installation and help with shock if it should get dropped so that's good.
Add a Renogy 200aH 12V to the board when you have time. Thank you for your excellent videos.
That process starts for us when a battery manufacturer contacts us with the offer of a review battery.
For them it often starts from someone like you suggesting our channel to them.
Balls in your court
Great job editing that video Emily! Thanks Clark! I learned a lot and will put that knowledge to use!
Now, what about bulk charging Lithium? My charge controller has one setting for Volts. Do I set it at 13.6? or 14.4?
Really... Neither.
BankManager!
the batteries i make now for high end ebikes with dc currents of up to 850 amps continuous ,use 3m Novac dilectric fluid ,and immersion cooling,cells now never go higher than a few degrees under full load ,.and can charge the battery at 80 amps continuous,and have advantage of never being able to catch fire
I think you could just drill a hole in that 12 volt box and fill it up with Novec fluid would make battery last years longer
Isn't one of the functions of a decent BMS cell balancing? Having got the cells in balance doesn't mean they will stay in balance, that would require all the cells to have identical characteristics and that just doesn't happen. Buy a battery with a proper BMS with cell balancing in the first place so you don't have to destroy the case to get to the individual cell connections.
BMSs tend to use small passive balancers. They take forever to balance the cells and to function you would need to hold the battery at a high float voltage for a long time. That isn't something you want to do daily.
If you keep the battery at reasonable voltages it's unlikely you would even notice a bit of mis-balance.
I would have just charged each cell up to 3.65 with your power supply instead of using a resistor to discharge each cell.
Different strokes
Your videos are such a valuable wealth of knowledge, I appreciate the way you explain the theory and application on most systems you have covered. You make the DIY of what can seem to someone unfamiliar with these systems, like me, easily achievable! I look forward to your videos! Thank You!
Thank you Justin.
Let me share a joke that a patron made with me.
Clark, you terrify my wife.
You make me think I can do things I shouldn't be trying.
@@Clarks-Adventure I love it!
is it possible to charge a 36v lithium Iron Phosphate battery of my marine 12v alternator (trolling motor)?
Sure, though trolling motors don't produce much power.
You could do it cheaply with a boost converter.
Next Saturday's video will be all about boost converters. Though for a different application.
Great video! Thanks for explaining all of that stuff, it really helped
If you liked this you might like the others in the series(check the leaderboard in the description). Even if you aren't interested in buying the other offerings I hope that I added a bit of general battery knowledge to each.
A few items I've been adding to my list that you might want to include on your spreadsheet:
Warranty Duration
Minimum Cycles
Maximum Continuous Charging Current
Self-Heating Y/N
Low Temp Shutoff Y/N
Bluetooth
While your casual style is obviously popular, a bit more of an organizational touch might help with review-type content. Just some graphics on what you'll be covering, tests, expected results, observed results, stuff like that. Keep it simple and minimal - the data is in the spreadsheet - just let us know what you'll be up to and what you found.
Good ideas
Yep.
You need to do your own show it sounds really good more technical data and less banter should be able to fit it all in, maybe 2 minutes
Just jump to the end.
There are indexs
Eco worthy 12v 280ah.... any good? time for a text....
I've not seen one. Anyone?
Omg that cough is the funniest sound ever!
Wow, excellent review!! I’ve been learning how to review power stations for my channel. You’re so knowledgeable, thank you for sharing your expertise! (I also love the leaderboard idea- I hate that I gave my first batteries such glowing reviews!)
All bms have balancing. If they didn't batteries wouldn't last long at all.
Some just don't.
But it turned out this one did, slow balancing but it had the feature.
Take your watch off....! The metal watch band will make a poor fuse on your arm.
You are absolutely right
can you do the 410 ah redodo please!!!!
You individual cell resistance measurement does not match the high current volt sag.
Some quick calculations @ 200amps = 0.003ohms, this is more like I would expect.
The individual cells around 0.015ohms seamed to high.
Great your tarting down the battery and giving us some numbers.
Please share your math. Really I'd appreciate it
@@Clarks-Adventure
Sure from at the 30 minute point.
At 124A and 12.94V
At 204A and 12.61V
Delta V 12.94V - 12.61V = 0.33V
Delta I 204A - 124A = 80A
0.33V / 80A = 0.00413ohms ( looked harder at you numbers this time )
This is closer to what I expected.
At 0.015 *4 = 0.06ohms, 200A would expect a 0.06 * 200 = 12V drop, not what you got.
You may be adding some of your lead resistance in your delta V measurement
Try attaching the meter to your battery, leaving it there for resistor on/off measurement , then add the resistor to some other place on the battery contact to get your delta V.
Also you can use your 5A power supply in to generate delta I measuring delta V.
Myself I have an Agilent 4338B Low ohm meter which uses AC not caring about battery voltage. It can measure to better than 1uohm.
Method is everything for these type of measurements ( holding you finger in the right direction), good luck with future measurements, I hope this helps.
I do get it's a happy temp for batteries, but nice and toasty at 41??? as I freeze in a 71 degree room 😂
Yes I care too much for mine. I took them on a tropical vacation
Clark, please lose the metallic jewelry when working with batteries.
I can't believe that it took 24 hours for someone to notice that
You are so right. I was a fool
I kicked myself all during editing.
It's why we don't have gold wedding rings.
Is it ok if my charge controller reaches 14.6V?
It's a hard question to answer. I learned so much while developing the BankManager.
You just can't charge li to a voltage.
If you charge really hard 14.6 can be ok but if you charge with solar you likely shouldn't get near that.
Many charge to 13.8. Even that voltage can overcharge your Li at low current.
Clark;
What about hi and low temperature shutdown?
I talked that in the video
What BMS is the battery using?
The best I have found currently is a tossup between timeusb's 220ah and redodo 230ah (they are the same battery getting around 227ah of time) Both have serviceable steel casing that you can unscrew for under $600USD. Find a better deal, I dare you.
Holy shit someone who understands power like I do!!! Finally! It's like people buy things and slap them together and don't think about any of it. They end up catching $250,000 RVs on fire and scratch their heads wondering what went wrong but in the next RV they make the same mistakes! Instant subscribe from me!
After a fair bit of research, I selected a pair of 100 A/H batteries from this company. I've had them only a couple of
weeks, but so far they work really well as a replacement for the AGMs I had in my small home emergency backup.
Thanks for the review and deep dive into the insides!! 👍
Just really appreciate your videos
Thank you.
I'll do better on the next one. This was so much more work than I thought it would be. It will be easier next time.
@@Clarks-Adventure You have a wonderful ability to explain technology.
I got 4 of these Redodo batteries for drop in replacement for the Ryobi 48V zero turn lead acid batteries. So far so good!
Woah. That's a cool application. What benefits have you seen by not using these over the ryobi branded cells?
Well torn down. I do greatly wonder about cycle life and how as consumers we can ascertain this as truth? Cycle life/ cost per watt hour cycle rather than just cost per watt hour capacity.
Compactness will help them sell more as well. Please make cells with no unnecessary spacers! Very much considering limiting my cells to 100amp hour to ovoid internal parallels.
I think internal parallels are fine. It's external parallels that get you in trouble. Keeping as much as possible under one BMS.
As far as cycle life numbers. I think I just won't mention them for Chinese batteries. That's just the kind of untestable stat they lie about.
@@Clarks-Adventure Thanks for your opinion on parallels. Much of my decision to build my own and use my own bms or buy prepared cells. Likely have to assume the lower cycle numbers till time proves them.
Can you build a bank manager that will let me connect lifepo4 to lead acid at 24 volts? Id also like a way of connecting my 24 volt nissan leaf powerwall to lifepo4 at 24 volts. I have nissan leaf modules and lead acid batteries but im buying lifepo4 this weekend. Any help with this would be awesome.
Bankanager works 12, 24, 36, and 48v.
www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
But it's Lifepo4 I'm not sure what chemistry leaf packs but I bet they are different.
@@Clarks-Adventure leaf packs are nmc. They have 2s2p per module. I have 24 modules in a 24 volt configuration so they are actually something like 2s4p-4s3p-2p. I know that's confusing it it's how it is lol. Yes I'd like to run the lifepo4- nmc- lead acid all together. Wish there was something I could but to make them all work together since ive invested so much in so many different chemistry batteries
can you tear down a li time and chins
Excellent super useful video. Looking to eventually replace my Gel batteries in my off-grid house here in the South Pacific (Vanuatu).
any of these battery companies ship to Canada? as far as I've seen, not so much
I just don't know.
Canada is expensive to ship into.
You should also include AGM lead, according too everything you have said, I have also researched There is no replacement for lead it has properties that, lithium does not have, my deep cycle 8D and 4D have started my 28 hp M2003 Volvo, I also had too start it by manual crank once, Life savor with a Hurricane 20 hours away. Yes, purchased a dedicated starter battery as soon as I got back, but never had too use it after that. Funny how that works. I have a 8D 4D AGM’s and standard Start car battery, think it is a die hard, was thinking about replacing the 8D with lithium iron, figure the weight savings and power increase would let me run a new 3000 watt inverter. Have a 500 watt one now , but refitting and space is always a premium the wife Loves her hot showers I have both Electric AC or engine coolant water heater, works great, with the new Water Maker, still have not decided on that also, with our 110 gallons of fresh water would not have too fill both tanks, rather use them as ballast on different tacks pump 50 gallons to either side, make water at the destination on hook. Also less weight faster boat. She is already very fast as a Beneteau 350 89, points also very high, winged shoal keel cast iron. Always wanted too sail the Chesapeake and beyond with her. Went all the way too Bangor Maine with her. So doing the work in planning her refit, Love your series, Troubled about your cough, my wife has that since Covid, slow too get better. If you both are ever up in Long Island reach out. Greenport on the north fork is where StarLight is Where in Smithtown, center North Shore. Family goes back to 1631 here.
Thanks.
I agree with the advantages of lead.
www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
Most BMSs are set to shut down at 3.65v which is considered completely safe by extensive literature and tests. So I don’t understand why the statement that charging up to BMS limit is wrong. Of course using the battery at 100% DoD reduces the number of cycles but if you want to maximize the number of cycles you should keep it at around 80% DoD. BMS are not a nuclear option. These settings are easily configurable by the manufacturer. Why would they built a device that would reduce the battery lifespan or create a hazard risk? It doesn’t make sense from a commercial point of view.
I suggest you read Conrad's article linked to the bottom of this. www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
BMSs are for keeping cells from venting. Not for charging. Charging Li properly is difficult and the BankManager is the only device that does it properly.
It means the difference between 6 years of life and more than double that.
@@Clarks-Adventure I read it few times but there’s nothing written in there that states one shouldn’t charge to 100% BMS SoC. The text argues against charging to voltage only which is a different claim. The BMS not only accounts for voltage but also other factors. So it still I don’t see an argument as to why someone should not charge until the BMS shuts off. Can you please elaborate and be more specific?
Well first off the BMS only monitors cell voltage and temperature.
I'm not here to convince you. Do the research, it's out there. There are research papers on cell life as effected by charging over 100 percent
Also you might find it interesting to research exactly how LiFePO4 is charged and cycled for life cycle testing.
Did you follow the links Conrad suggests?
If you want the answers they are out there but so are a lot of claims that say charging Li like lead is OK.
I did a video on how to balance a new battery that was out of balance in a existing bank. Took several weeks though. Internal balancing is very low current and very slow and typically only balances during charging.
Wow, that was a great video! Thank you for the teardown. Have you ever considered building a battery from scratch? From sourcing cells/BMSs to putting it all together?
Sure I've done that.
We have a 50amphour battery I built in a pelican case we use a lot for portable needs. We also use it with an electric motor on Emily's boat.
In the video when I talk about destroying cells. Well, that was the first attempt at that battery.
@@Clarks-Adventure Please do a video someday about building your own battery. D.I.Y-L.I. ^_^
Another good one, Clark but please don’t wear your steel band wristwatch when you are working on batteries; I can’t hold my breath that long😉.
I can't believe that it took 24 hours for someone to notice that. You are the second guy
You are so right. I was a fool
I kicked myself all during editing.
It's why we don't have gold wedding rings.
@@Clarks-Adventure No worries, Covid earns you a pass. Besides, I knew that had something bad happened you would have posted a very different video 🤣.
How do we charge with a charger you buy in a store and cant afford a bank manager?
Charging Lifepo4 correctly in an active system is a complex procedure and really requires something like the BankManager.
Charging it stand alone correctly can be done by controlling the voltage and monitoring the current. Research "LiFePO4 and taper current"
Charging with a "Victron" type charger will charge the battery but expect a greatly reduced lifespan. If your bank is small it might be cost effective to simply charge them this way and buy new batteries in a few years.
Thanks for this.. all videos help make choices.. my issue i have a diy set up in shed at moment my EPEEVER 30 amp charge controller is at a 14.6 i believe highest charge rate Set to the lead acid batteries i have at moment ..i can change charge controller to lithium battery will that be automatically be lower charge to go into the lithium to profect it as you state DONT GO UP TO 14.6 with lithium ? As im a semi novice leaning ... can you explain easy terms what im meant to be doing for the best .. im hoping to get 200ah lithium ..cheers
Sad to say there is no safe way to charge li to a voltage. Li is just too fragile and there are no Li chargers that have a Li setting that won't abuse your new li batteries.
I developed something called the BankManager that charges li right. You get to keep your lead batteries, and you get to keep your old charge controllers.
www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
Im talking about any 200ah lithium battery what charge rate should that be set at so dont cook the lithium
It's not that simple
Clark -- I'm guessing that it's not as sunny where you are with Emily gone, but I'm still hopeful that you can find energy to answer these 2 (neophyte) questions about batteries:
#1. UL CERTIFIED. Some batteries state this, others don't, while still other brands make it unclear whether the UL listing is for the whole battery system or just key specific parts. For example, the Redodo appears to be UL tested for the "cell" and "BMS" but because they list specific parts it makes me suspicious that the whole battery unit is not certified (yes, I'm a suspicious SOB). Does UL listing of specific parts rather than UL listing on the whole unit matter to you? What does an engineer look for regarding certification/testing?
#2. SERVER RACK BATTERY. As I'm sure you know, some people are successfully using server rack batteries in RVs. Price points seem attractive especially for 48 volt, I assume due to high manufacturing volume. One brand that has good $/watt and supposedly robust for 48 volt is SOK (for example, "SOK 48V 100Ah Server Rack Battery - User Serviceable Rack Battery" with a 10 year warranty distributed by CurrentConnected com).
I've also seen 12 volt, though at a higher $/watt (G4-LifePower4 Lithium Battery 12V 400AH Server Rack Battery). Note, I'll ask you about 12v vs 48v on a different video of yours.
What are your initial general thoughts for using server rack batteries on boats? Might you consider testing a server rack battery for your Leaderboard?
As always, thank you for all that you do for me and others!! You're inspiring me and others to help our communities, now I just gotta figure out what do I know that's worth sharing. .....Since I don't know much, in the meantime I'll just share my brute force. Thanks! Mike
1 I really don't know much about UL. It's an insurance thing and for the US
2 I haven't looked deep but the server rack batteries I've seen are in steel cases. Great for computer rooms but saltwater boats?
12 or 24 for boats where you need to run DC devices. 48 for houses where it all goes through the inverter anyway.
Thank you Emily and Clark. I already purchased a BBM from you. I'll be checking your reviews on batteries before I buy.🌊
Clark, I love your channel - if you would like to understand the nuances of lithium I would be happy to spend some time with you.
That's 50 lbs of LITHIUM! What a monster battery! My HOUSE has 50A service! LOL
The great part about lithium is that it bonds to other minerals. In this case it binds to iron, but the latest batteries being developed by Tesla bond to silicon, basically sand, so they won’t need cobalt to make the cells, and the size and weight of the battery will be 2/3 less, but the capacity will be 2/3 higher. This is music to the ears of boaters, RVers, and electronics enthusiasts, I’m waiting with baited breath because Tesla always does their design work in open source, so that it can be reproduced by others.
Your house is running much higher voltage. I'm guessing 20 times higher. Remember power is amps times volts.
New tech is always exciting
hi, can you please add a link to the "Load Battery Discharge Tester" you used ? (or another equivalent one)
I started the process of putting a link to it in our Amazon store. Check in a day or so.
Should be in the electrical tools or battery (or both) sections
It's there now
perfectly timed video thank you for all the hard work :D
Thanks Christopher
9:32 I presume those terminal posts are well sealed. So could be the USB charge points, by sealing around the entry points' grommet. You would need to inspect.
Great review Clark and Emily, probably and active ballencer like a neeey might be the go, Andy from Offgrid garage has played around with them. Oh and that table😀
What an excellent battery review. I may well be building a system later this year, and this will help me. Thank you
Thanks
Remind me of your real name I know it's not Bob but I forgot.
@@Clarks-Adventure my real name is Ian.
Yep. Sorry I forgot Ian
@@Clarks-Adventure all good
Would have loved to see the battery go overboard for an hour before you opened it up.
Nope
I recognise none of the brands on your leaderboard.
One of the things I suspect is that you can go to one of these Chinese companies and order some of them. If your order is sufficiently large, you will paint them and package them with your livery. I can do the same, get the same products, and potentially sell them for more, or less, than you. I could have good value product, yours might be good but, since you charge more, not such good value.
It's possible than none of the brands you have tested so fair are available outside the US.
They are all available. Just follow the link on the leaderboard. It's possible some are temporarily sold out of course.
Yes the company that makes the Elefast has been making batteries for resale under others brands for years.
@@Clarks-Adventure Most of them are not in stock. So far as I can see, none ships to Australia. Their not being sold in Australia is an excellent explanation of why I haven't heard of them. We do have VoltX, VoltaX (yes, different brands), Digi Marker, Mobi.
How my reviews start is often with someone like you suggesting an Emily and Clark review to the manufacturer they then contact me with an offer for sending a battery.
We have a lot of viewers, and BankManager buyers, in Australia and New Zealand. I'd review a battery you guys can get even if it's not available in the US.
Also, I'm looking for a distributor down under so BankManagers aren't so crazy expensive for you guys. A New Zealand guy just told me how much he is spending on customs (more than the device cost), crazy.
Know anyone?
I understand the reasons for the over sized case but I really wish that foam wasn't there. I want to stuff one of these batteries in a Milwaukee packout and make my own battery powered generator but it's 1.5" too long. Great video.
Did you see my video on the redodo mini? It's linked to the leader board you can get to in the description.
A couple of those would likely fit.
I was hoping to use a battery with a 150a bms minimum. Might take it out of the case and spray foam it in place 😬 I will provide plenty of ventilation.
Two in parallel would give you 200a of supply current.
Also I have a battery box coming with an inverter and charge controllers. Basically a power station that you supply the battery for.
Less than $200usd
I have a 200ah Redodo on my boat running a 10 cu. ft. refrigerator. I let it run to see when the Renology 3000 watt would shut off and at what voltage it did. When I checked on it the inverter was shut down . I checked the voltage on the battery and it was at 3.2 volts. I hooked the 20 amp charger to it and it would not take a charge. got the red flashing light on the charger. Any Idea's.
Your battery turned itself off on defence.
Just give it power but not from a "smart" charger.
Just hook it in parallel with another 12v (could be lead, could be small) battery and it will wake back up.
That worked I’ll have to reset my battery manager to shut down at a higher voltage
Great
The case is the size to be an RV replacement battery that drops right in.
Studying up to start a backup solar system; very interesting video! 👍😊
Looks like four of them batteries would enough to power a GM EMD SW series of locomotives. Good Video
Really shouldn't have the current running through your voltage measurement leads but if you do it the same way with all the cells then you can see if theres a deviation between the cells. So in this case it works to make sure they are matched
Would 2 100 ah redodo minis occupy a smaller footprint than 1 200 ah batteries.❤
Yes. Take a look at the leader board linked to in our description. There is a watt per cubic inch column.
I have new batteries coming but as of now this mini is by far the most power dense.
@@Clarks-Adventure Would you please tell me how to access the link to the battery reviews. I am using the RUclips app on my phone and can't see it.
Click the ...more link just below the word Mini in the title (below the video window)